Judge Rolf M. Treu, who decided the Vergara case , declared that he was shocked, shocked to learn from Professor Raj Chetty and Professor Thomas Kane of Harvard about the enormous harm that one “grossly ineffective” teacher can do to a child’s lifetime earnings or to their academic gains.
How did he define “grossly ineffective” teacher? He didn’t. How did these dreadful teachers get tenure? Clearly, some grossly incompetent principal must have granted it to them. What was the basis–factual or theoretical–that the students would have had high scores if their teachers did not have the right to due process? He didn’t say.
The theory behind the case–as I see it–is that low test scores are caused by bad teachers. Get rid of the bad teachers, replace them with average teachers, and all students will get high test scores. You might call it the judicial version of No Child Left Behind–that is, pull the right policy levers–say, testing and accountability–and every single child in America will be proficient by 2014. Congress should hang its collective head in shame for having passed that ridiculous law, yet it still sits on the books as the scorned, ineffective, toxic law of the land.
You might also say that Judge Treu was regurgitating the unproven claims behind Race to the Top, specifically that using test scores to evaluate teachers will make it possible to weed out “bad teachers,” recruit and reward top teachers, and test scores will rise to the top. Given this theory, a concept like tenure (due process) slows down the effort to fire those “grossly ineffective” teachers and delays the day when every student is proficient.
Relying on Chetty and Kane, Judge Treu is quite certain that the theory of universal proficiency is correct. Thus, in his thinking, it becomes a matter of urgency to eliminate tenure, seniority, and any other legal protection for teachers, leaving principals free to fire them promptly, without delay or hindrance.
Set aside for the moment that this decision lacks any evidentiary basis. Another judge might have heard the same parade of witnesses and reached a different conclusion.
Bear in mind that the case will be appealed to a higher court, and will continue to be appealed until there is no higher court.
It is not unreasonable to believe that the California Teachers Association might negotiate a different tenure process with the Legislature, perhaps a requirement of three years probationary status instead of two.
The one thing that does seem certain is that, contrary to the victory claims of hedge fund managers and rightwing editorial writers, no student will gain anything as a result of this decision. Millions more dollars will be spent to litigate the issues in California and elsewhere, but what will students gain? Nothing. The poorest, neediest students will still be in schools that lack the resources to meet their needs. They will still be in schools where classes are too large. They will still be in buildings that need repairs. They will still be in schools where the arts program and nurses and counselors were eliminated by budget cuts.
If their principals fire all or most or some of their teachers, who will take their places? There is no long line of superb teachers waiting for a chance to teach in inner-city schools. Chetty and Kane blithely assume that those who are fired will be replaced by better teachers. How do they know that?
Let’s be clear. No “grossly ineffective” teacher should ever get tenure. Only a “grossly ineffective” principal would give tenure to a “grossly ineffective” teacher. Teachers do not give tenure to themselves.
Unfortunately, the Vergara decision is the latest example of the blame-shifting strategy of the privatization movement. Instead of acknowledging that test scores are highly correlated with family income, they prefer to blame teachers and the very idea of public education. If they were truly interested in supporting the needs of the children, the backers of this case would be advocating for smaller classes, for arts programs, for well-equipped and up-to-date schools, for after-school programs, for health clinics, for librarians and counselors, and for inducements to attract and retain a stable corps of experienced teachers in the schools attended by Beatriz Vergara and her co-plaintiffs.
Let us hope that a wiser judicial panel speedily overturns this bad decision and seeks a path of school reform that actually helps the plaintiffs without inflicting harm on their teachers.
They need to have you testify Diane… via Skype or some other form of long distance internet / televised way (so you wouldn’t have to travel). You’re certainly more of an expert witness!
Of course, Chetty and Kane have tenure. And actual, job-for-life tenure. Ironic, no?
WaPo Wonkblog analysis:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/06/10/a-california-judge-just-ruled-that-teacher-tenure-is-bad-for-students/
Look at the Chetty’s charts shown at Wapo. They are transparently fraudulent: the y-axis on the first chart is scaled from 36% to 38%, something every student learns you can never do – you are supposed to show the data at correct scale, starting from 0. This is outrageous. No chance any judge would have been impressed with that “evidence” if it had been scaled correctly, showing that by Chetty’s own contested data, the difference made by “teacher quality” is negligible. Also, there are of course no error bars on these charts. Had these charts be part of any scientific publication, they ought to have been rejected out of hand.
The judge is mathmatically challenged. Blame his teachers. Track them down and pour tar and feathers on them.
Well, at least we now have a benchmark, so to speak, for assessing Grossly Incompetent Judges.
The day when the Judiciary can boast of having no more that 3% G.I.J.s will be a day for celebration indeed.
In California, bad judges can get voted off the bench. Now that would be something to organize for Treu.
Elections are examples of due process.
No doubt some Grossly Incompetent Judge can be prevailed upon to declare elections unconstitutional.
Agreed, Gayaneh!
Wrong…we have a benchmark of the mood of the country (see all the Tea Party victories, even Eric Cantor lost), and the huge promulgation of the billionaires message to kill off all unions starting with tenure and the teachers unions, is winning. Some here will say let’s sue them…but we do not have any pro bono lawyers stepping forward to take on one of the most clever and powerful lawyers in the country, Ted Olson…who I have written about for many months.
Lenny Isenberg has been trying to garner a movement with all teachers donating a bit to hire class act lawyers, to no avail. Read PerDaily.
ALEC is the winner…and they will move full speed ahead.
We have insight into how courts in America operate. This will follow through in higher courts much like Citizens United whereby the rather simple case of a film on Hillary Clinton morphed into the biggest activist SCOTUS decision in American history which has changed our elections in perpetuity. Might makes right is the dictum.
I have written about Vergara since the beginning, and like some others of my local colleagues in California, have asked the education world to support us in California…but it only since the Tuesday decision, that some folks here have spoken up. We pleaded with teachers to write letters to the editors about this case and to raise the alarm throughout the nation before the case was decided.
I personally did not see much support coming from teachers and other bloggers nationwide. And now the horse race is over and this same kind of litigation will now proliferate in every state,funded by the deep pockets of the billionaires.
Shame on everyone who did not pay attention. Anyone who is not actively working against the oligarchs but only comments by pissing and moaning, is also culpable in the Vergara decision.
Too many would rather focus on Finland than on our system of justice.
My comment was addressed to Jon Awbrey above, but hope it will widen the discussion. This case if more broad and far reaching than the tenure issue, which seems to be all that commenters are considering.
The LIFO issue seems a lot more important than the due process issues, at least for teachers in LIFO states.
Correct Flerp…
Ellen,
As far as the Big Picture goes, my thoughts on that are recorded here:
☞ The Place Where Three Wars Meet
Totally agree with you Jon. Well said. Thanks for the link.
That was my question. Does anyone have any background on this judge? His affiliates, supporters, etc.?
E. Teacher: here are ratings on Judge Treu, posted before the latest rulings: http://www.robeprobe.com/find_judges_result2.php?judge_id=4056
I think what you need to do is go to this link and this site and get some background on exactly what is going on in this California venue. I have something to say about this Perdaily post, and I am going to put it up as a general comment and not as a “reply’ sidebar.
http://www.perdaily.com/2014/06/lausds-treacherous-road-from-reed-to-vergara–its-never-been-about-students-just-money.html
Frequently in the process of voting, we are asked to vote on whether a long list of judges should be retained or elected. I rely on recommendations from the professional associations of lawyers from whom these candidates were at some point drawn. The organizations give them ratings of “not qualified, qualified, or highly qualified” or recommended or not. I haven’t counted, but if we want nothing less than highly qualified judges, then there are quite a few positions that will be left unfilled on any given election cycle. I’m sure we can perform the same exercise on any profession we so choose although apparently it does not apply to those who wield the most power and/or have the most money. perhaps we can put those economists to work on determining the cost/ benefit ratio of judicial decisions (indication of excellence).
We hear about all the allegedly incompetent teachers, but never about the large number of incompetent and inept administrators. (For example, why is Lottie Almonte still the principal of Murry Bergtraum High School in Manhattan?) The judge stated that just one unsatisfactory teacher could cause a $1.4 million dollar deficit in a student’s lifetime earnings. If this nonsense is true, than one incompetent administrator could easily cost every student four or five million dollars in lifetime earnings.
Moreover, under the judge’s logic an administrator could just arbitrarily say to a teacher, “I didn’t like your last lesson. You’re fired.”
Diane, I really appreciate your putting your mind to bear on the nitty-gritty details of this case.
agreed!
With all the research debunking VAM, if the plaintiff’s win boiled down to the expert testimony, then the defense did a poor job of discrediting that testimony.
Their thinking is very simple: Low Scores = Bad Teacher!
Fire Bad Teachers!
Hire new teachers!
TFA or others that will spring up!
Thousands of Public Policy/PolicSci BS ‘Kids’ waiting in the wings!
Repeat as needed….
You see? Simple!!
Career teachers were the problem all along.
Many legislators and billionaires have hated us for years.
They could not wait to use their greedy power to ‘stick it to us’.
Hourly employees, without job security or tenure are the answer.
Walmart4Life?
Too many college kids can’t find jobs…whoop, there it is.
Teaching!
Simple!
I would love to see a courtcase on how to get rid of incompetent principals and superintendents. Usually in the case of principals they simply transfer them never ever fire them. In the case of superintendents in LAUSD, they give them tons of money to go away like the admiral of a ship they hired, or they retire in shame like the one before Deasy that was accused of sexual harrasement. And then you have Deasy, who got a 96 percent poor job rating from teachers. They gave him a raise and signed him up for 3 more years. As for the judge, the amazing thing about that case, is that the teachers that were displayed as incompetent by the prosecution didn’t have tenure and were given sterling reviews. Given the evidence I’d say the judge wasn’t paying attention or who knows what billionaire visited him in the night, allegedly of course..
Superintendents are hired and fired by the school board. You need to lobby your school board to get rid of ineffective superintendents.
Luckily in many states parents have school choice so they can make an escape from infective school boards\superintendents\principals\teachers without having to move.
Cynthia…you must not be in or near LAUSD.
The LAUSD BoE was mandated to hire Deasy.
Eli Broad and former mayor Villaraigosa were the ‘deciders’ and were rubber stamped by the School Board. This current Board generally votes as Deasy directs them. The fallout for teachers and the public has been horrendous.
School choice here means ever growing charter schools, largest number in the Nation in Los Angeles, which is the goal of the Broad Academy who has since 1999, trained the major population of Superintendents nationwide in the use of business models to run public education, and how to be CEOs rather than public servants.
This long range plan of Broad and his fellow billionaires put this in motion to create free market investment opportunities for investors who are now being taught by hedge fund managers how to profit from public education. Their goal is not to improve students ability to learn, but rather to skim the cream of the wealth off the top of taxpayer funded charters.
Follow the flow of money from taxpayers, to charter schools, to hedge fund managers, to the billionaires. Rupert Murdoch said in an article in the NY Times that he would make pubic education a trillion dollar industry.
Cynthia…are you the lawyer from Lathim and Watkins??? Do you participate with Public Counsel???
The first principal I had that I had difficulty with, had complaints by 12 teachers. Nothing was done until he applied for an administrative position at the district office. He was told, “Why would we hire you, when we have had 12 complaints?” (I know this because another principal on the interview panel told a teacher.) I saw him put a difficult child up against the wall in the cafeteria and get in his face. A teacher would have been reprimanded and written up, as he should have been. The school secretary retired early due to the way he treated students and teachers. He now works in another district. So, you are right, nothing happens to administrators. But, teachers are targeted because they disagree or are approaching retirement. I have no problem with teachers being let go when they are not doing their job well. I am very upset when teachers are doing the best they can with difficult classes, too many children in one class, less funds to help their students, constantly teaching to the test, etc.
Perhaps the saddest aspect of the Vergara verdict is that the judge actually believed Professor Chetty’s claim that one bad teacher can cost a child hundreds of thousands of dollars over a lifetime. As if that one “bad” teacher can do more damage to a poor student’s upward mobility than a childhood of abuse, being homeless, hungry, witnessing violence, lack of extracurricular opportunities or absentee parenting because their mother or father has to work three jobs to make ends meet. If they do manage to go to college, they face a future burdened with student debt and little job opportunity. Dear judge, the security of the teaching profession has lifted many poor minority children out of poverty and into the middle class. It has been a solid career option for many poor citizens who have attended college but may have lacked the connections for more high paying and prestigious careers. Without tenure, the profession becomes just another low wage at will temp job in our Walmart nation.
In the shadows of the Vergara verdict, and what has become almost a daily dose of school shootings, there’s a bizarre little news story circulating about a 34 year old woman who posed as a fifteen year old so she could go back to high school http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/texas-woman-34-posed-15-year-old-high-school-student-released-jail-article-1.1825190. Why would anyone want to go back to high school? Her answer, so she could feel loved. Despite all of the reform emphasis on test scores, failing students, failing teachers, failing schools… the one thing our public schools and our public school teachers have always succeeded best at doing is making our students feel loved. http://kafkateach.wordpress.com/2014/06/11/public-education-enemy-number-one-the-tenured-teacher/
“Teachers do not give tenure to themselves.” Exactly.
Professor Ravitch, If Professor Raj Chetty and Professor Thomas Kane were in court, why weren’t you…or Lois Weiner or Pablo Noguera or Charles Kershner or ??? I just got off the phone with CTA that is supposedly going to intervene for an appeal of Vergara, which is why Judge Treu stayed his verdict. I mentioned to CTA what you and many other academics and teachers know and suggested that you all get in touch with each other to prepare the appeal before it’s too late.
Apropos, Judge Treu’s stay didn’t stop LAUSD Superintendent Deasy from saying he wasn’t going to wait on a final verdict, but rather move right ahead in getting rid of more “bad teachers,” who coincidently just happen to be at the top of the salary scale- 93% of those in teacher jail.
A fair criticism might be teachers and academics talk, while Broad, Gates, and the corporate privatizers and their lackeys act. Ironically, we are the 99% that could easily turn this around, if we did something other than just talk about an agenda that the privatizers continue to define. Parents clearly still trust teachers more than administrators, but nobody is trying to put teachers and parents together to address the common enemy. Your celebrity could easily do this.
The correctness of what you say and the very future of public education is at stake. You can either proactively reach out to CTA and others who are trying to fight or continue being just a retired gardener in Brooklyn at the expense of every exquisite insight your career has brought to understanding the objective reality of public education today and how to fix it in a context that few if any can do better than you.
Diane is recovering from serious health problems. She’s doing the best she can, which is a lot. Diane should not have to give up her life for this cause, she’s really done enough. She has nothing to apologize for.
AGREED!!!!
Have some sense. Diane, care for yourself. Your country needs you rested and healthy. Much love from all of us, Bob!
I’ve been amazed at how much Diane Ravitch is doing to get the word out despite her serious health issues, I’ve also been worried because she needs to take care of herself.
Dianarog11, thank you for your concern.
Joe, Bob Shepherd, and dianarog11: what y’all said.
I wouldn’t change a single word.
But I think that is another function of this blog. Diane may be taking point for us, but she is not alone:
“A decent boldness ever meets with friends.” [Homer]
😎
Lenny…shall call you tomorrow morning to discuss this and the way forward for Joining Forces for Education…and for us personally.
I am with you 100% on the need to have an established legal fund.
I am stunned that the education world is only just now waking up to what we California bloggers have been writing for the last 5 months on the Vergara case, and what Mercedes too has been writing about the long term goals of ALEC. It should be no surprise that the court ruled as they/he did.
I want to do something!
Where are you E teacher? In what state?
You can reach me at
joiningforces4ed@aol.com
and we can discuss further on how to combat these wealth-driven opponents whose goals are profits rather than public education.
So CTA fights Prop 32 so they can easily get money from teachers to “stickup for us.” They take the money and exclusively back Democratic Candidates. When the Vergara case goes to court, where is the media blitz decrying the issue? Where is the explanation that Teachers don’t have tenure, we just ave due process to protect us from arbitrary and capricious administrators? Where are the Democrats speaking up for us and decrying the issue? So we get the Republicans to hate us, the Democrats don’t defend us, and CTA doesn’t speak up.
We are still sending CTA our money right?
Just because we see it on Diane’s blog doesn’t mean everyone else is hearing the truth.
As an elementary school principal for 25 years in two very different schools, I had some struggling teachers and, as I remember it, three incompetent ones. With the first group the solutions were easy: team them with more competent and experienced teachers and give them a lot of my own time and attention. As a result, they all improved markedly and a a few became outstanding. With the hopeless ones, who tended to be older and mired in poor health or family problems, I tried to persuade them to leave teaching by retiring early or seeking a less demanding type of work. Two did the first and one transferred out of my school. Eventually, he,too, left teaching. The process was slower than firing them, but it retained their dignity and honored their years of service.
Tended to be older? Wow, you sound like my boss who has encouraged me to retire even though I cannot. My class does well in the standardized testing arena and I am very innovative in my methodology. I am curious- how old are you Joanne ?
Were the older hopeless teachers always incompetent or did they become incompetent due to poor health and family problems? If these teachers were always incompetent, then the original principal who hired them and observed them during the probationary period would be at fault.
Over a period of 25 years, as many as three incompetent teachers! And this principal had no problem getting rid of them. To hear the corporate reformer types talk, one would think that incompetence runs rampant through the ranks of teachers and that no way exists of remediating or dismissing struggling or incompetent teachers short of removing the protection of due process from all teachers. And by the way, family and health problems can attack at any age. It is important to be careful about tying incompetence to age. Experience is important. Good teachers think about their craft and continue to improve throughout their careers no matter their age and length of service. However, they might become a bit more expensive. Please do not provide an excuse for getting rid of excellent experienced teachers to save money by hiring inexperienced ones.
Dianarog….That is the Broad/Gates/Murdoch/Walton party line. They have been selling it, though their PR firms which control the media for them, for so many years that now the public believes it.
In the LA Times today, Supt. Deasy followed up with glee at his unchained ability to fire even more teachers after this decision.
A small correction: the principal had no problem getting the incompetent teachers to retire OR TRANSFER to another school where they became some other student’s problem.
As Diane has pointed out, teachers and/or their unions do not hire the teachers. Administrators and principals hire the teachers in the first place; the principals are the ones observing and assessing the new teacher during the probationary period. So I guess that incompetent principals/administrators are a threat to the civil rights of students, too? A few years ago, the probationary period in NJ was increased from 3 years to 4 years. Not enough for Christie who wants to eliminate tenure, seniority and the last-in-first-out reduction in force procedure. But wait, there’s more, Christie and the billionaires want to eliminate “too generous” pensions and “too generous” health benefits. The reform billionaires want obedient, subservient, obsequious, deferential and part time indentured servants otherwise known as teachers.
In LAUSD, as I suppose is also happening in Chicago and elsewhere, the Broad Academy trained Supt. Deasy is rapidly replacing all administrators who disagree with his policies, and he is replacing them with those who toadie to him…they in turn, of course, hire only teachers who believe in the god of Common Core, and of god Deasy.
It is a totally top down environment with teachers who are terrified and fear for their jobs.
The oligarchs will grasp at any pseudoresearch to bolster their political agenda, and make no mistake about it, this judge has a political agenda.
It would be interesting to have a pro-labor legal scholar or two write a “decision” in this case that addresses the evidence against VAM and income predictions based on test scores.
In other words, what I would like to see are the “what if?” versions of this decision. What if the judge were not a union-busting troglodyte who wants to convert all teachers and, indeed, all workers into contingent, at-will employees?
It would have been extremely easy for a judge that didn’t like this case to uphold the statutes. The most obvious “what if” version I can think of say (1) the alleged harm to plaintiffs caused by the dismissal statutes is too indirect and attenuated to justify the strict scrutiny standard and (2) the dismissal statutes are rationally related to the legitimate government purpose of ensuring an experienced and qualified workforce of teachers.
Agree that we need to hear from a legal scholar such as Erwin Chemerinsky, Dean of UC Irvine School of Law, or Lawrence Tribe.
I am writing to both with this request for their opinion. Doubt that we can leave that to the LA Times, so maybe a few of you will also write them with the same request for their input.
Maybe you can quickly give some talking points to Randi W. She just got steamrolled by good old Mr. Blitzer on afternoon CNN. Sleazy D and Michelle R lead the piece and then it was an interview of Randi who simply was not sharp enough to counter the aggressively-styled, biased grilling which barely let Randi finish a sentence before the next idiotic query was launched. Watch the clip and connect the dots.
Now that we’ve decided that all of the problems in this country are caused by public school teachers, what do you guys plan to do about it?
Wolf Blitzer wants answers.
It is time to take off the gloves in these public confrontations. Here’s what Randi should have said:
Well, now the Vergara decision leaves people free to apply the Michelle Rhee model for being a Most Excellent and Effective Schools Chancellor:
Just channel Lewis Carroll’s Red Queen: Practice believing six impossible things every morning before breakfast and stop about yelling, “Off with their heads!”
Look. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. That’s why we have due process. To protect decent people from tyrannical abuses of power. If you want a situation in which a principal can fire a teacher just so he can give this job to his mistress or to his golfing buddy’s idiot son, then reduce teachers to the status of contingent, at-will employees.
Randi was never a teacher, so she doesn’t know how to back us up. BUT, wasn’t she a lawyer? How many cases did she WIN when she can’t deal with a fairly basic cross examination? My 8th grade debate students did better than that in our mock trial in class.
Ms Ravitch wrote…
“The one thing that does seem certain is that, contrary to the victory claims of hedge fund managers and rightwing editorial writers, no student will gain anything as a result of this decision.”
Not true, schools will gain the ability to apply standard due process rules and remove an ineffective teacher with less time and expenses. This is money that will be spent on the classroom directly impacting students.
Just apply the Michelle Rhee model for being a Most Excellent and Effective Schools Chancellor:
Channel Lewis Carroll’s Red Queen: Practice believing six impossible things every morning before breakfast and stop about yelling, “Off with their heads!”
Yup. That should fix everything.
After all, it’s OK to reduce teachers to the status of at-will, contingent employees, for all we need, there, are minimum-wage workers to make sure that kids’ tablets are up and running their Gates/Pearson/Common Core software: Teaching, there’s an app for that!!!
cx Channel Lewis Carroll’s Red Queen: Practice believing six impossible things every morning before breakfast and stomp about yelling, “Off with their heads!”
Did the judge in this case advocate for removing all due process for teachers? I thought he called the California statutes Uber Due Process and proposed only modifying the egregious statutes that are hurting minority and low SES students.
And Ms. Weiss, what would you recommend that that due process look like?
Bob, this is essentially what it looks like (from the Skelly decision):
Actually, the Red Queen Hypothesis from biology fits here to. The idea is that one has to run to just stay in the same place. Teachers have to spring to get ahead of the Ed Deform. They control the press, and in the next year, they might control the internet as well.
Cynthia…Los Angeles public schools have a base of almost 90% living at or below poverty level….so the ruling as stated applies to almost everyone.
Notice, Flerp, that there is no mention, there, of any procedure for adjudication. You have a right to respond. And then I fire you.
“Notice, Flerp, that there is no mention, there, of any procedure for adjudication. You have a right to respond. And then I fire you.”
There is a right to a hearing and a decision by an impartial Decider. But don’t ask me what “impartial” means, because this puts me at the outer limits of my Skelly knowledge.
LOL. Thanks for your professional analysis of this, FLERP. Very interesting to read. Warm regards to you.
Mr Shepherd wrote…
“And Ms. Weiss, what would you recommend that that due process look like?”
Identical to that of a classified employee, which in California includes the right of a multi-stage appellate review process by independent courts.
Well, will be interesting to see what comes of this–whether the decision is overturned on appeal or what shape a new review process will take.
No one wants terrible teachers in classrooms. We have 3 million of them in the U.S. There are going to be some bad apples. There will be a lot more of them if the job becomes at-will. Due process and academic freedom are both extremely important. We’ll see if either survives this kind of onslaught.
Certainly, if we continue to based teacher evaluation on scores from invalid summative standardized tests that penalize teachers in nontested subjects and teachers of low-SES and otherwise challenged kids, the idiocy of that system will become increasingly obvious to everyone.
No It won’t Cynthia,
It will be spent on dinner/an extra summer house/political “donations” etc by the hedge fund managers who own the charters that will employ the minimum wage teachers with no protection, that will result from this lawsuit.
You know this as well as we all do: stop pretending and just admit the sleazy intentions please. I can’t stand the lying anymore. It just disgusts.
I do not understand. How could district time and money saved on dismissing ineffective teachers be spent on dinner/an extra summer house/political “donations”?
Because that’s who runs a lot of the deformer groups, Cynthia, and they are behind the scenes snapping up any and all money they can get. Tax money. That WE pay. To enrich themselves further.
If you believe any savings from removing ineffective teachers will be spent in the classroom, I have a bridge in Brooklyn for you to buy. Get real. Any additional monies will be spent, in LAUSD, in out of classroom and capital expenditures.
I don’t think you have a clue about due process in the context of public education. You seem to endorse the idea that every teacher who fails to produced the arbtrary and required increments in test scores, every year, for every student deserved to be fired. That is precisely what this judge has endorsed because he is clueless about the long inferential leaps through thin air made by economistists and statisticians who are themelves protected by tenure.
OR, the administration could simply round up all of the expensive teachers instead. Ask me about what happened to my husband when he turned in a kid looking up pornography on a school computer. My husband was fired, just because he made a report to the administration. Nothing happened to the kid.
Chiara…instead of asking an open ended question of the masses, perhaps offering choices of immediate action would get some results.
Lenny Isenberg is trying to raise funds to hire lawyers in California…that could be a starting point. We could put donations in an escrow account and find a few local respected teachers to administer the funding to be used only for cases to protect public schools, and many teachers.
Who would be willing to kick in $100 dollars, or less, for this kind of fund? Who of our LAUSD BoE members would help out? Who at the LA Times would make a donation? Who in this community would offer a few bucks?
Which readers here would put up or shut up?
I just donated $100 to Jonathan Pelto. I’ll give $100 for a pro-teacher lawsuit too.
I love you for stepping up Ponderosa.
Please reach me at
joiningforces4ed@aol.com
and we can talk about a process for doing this kind of donation.
I read most of the NYT’s article comments and everything was so hateful to teachers: I am starting to feel like maybe I should get out of teaching.
The public is just so incredibly, and unfairly, hateful towards teachers. I don’t even touch 50k a year and I have a Masters and I have been teaching since 2004.
I love the kids, but between the pressure of working at Title One, the endless hours, the fear that my pension will be pillaged, the fact that I live and teach in TX, home to the extreme GOP, the reality that 17 years working in the private sector contributing to social security, will result in my receiving NO social security due to having switched to teaching…I am afraid to keep going: what if I end up with no retirement from either of my career paths, and no way to support myself as a retiree?
On top of it, I make about what I owe on my students loans, still, because I missed the offer of the government contribution to student loans, if you work in a Title One for 5 years, by one month…
I feel like you can’t make the public happy: If I worked for free, went into debt that I could never pay back, and was willing to not have any right to any standard of working conditions, I still don’t think some of the public would be happy.
Maybe we are expected to work for minimum wage and just shut up.
You seem like a teacher is compassionate and cares about the students. Why not move to another district or a district in another state or find a private school that cares about its teachers and pays and treats them accordingly?
After all in states where there is no choice this is what parents have to when they find their students in an ineffective school district.
The problem is this type of movement is national and other districts if not doing it will. and why would they? Perfect way to get rid of older teachers, teachers of different races, teachers who don’t follow the line. Yes, this makes their job much easier. Let’s just legitimize discrimination and we have no problems.
“Why not move to another district or a district in another state or find a private school that cares about its teachers and pays and treats them accordingly?”
Maybe one with tenure and LIFO?
Many districts don’t. Caring for students is NOT the first priority for politicians and corporations. They bribe the seats for school board, dictate the democratic decision-making process, and defend truly incapable superintendent(s) who can’t make sounds decisions on teachers, let alone. Parents and school community should be given a choice to kick these ‘undesirable’ folks out of their districts for good.
The informed public doesn’t hate teachers. Those of the public who have swallowed the media’s and privateer narrative that education is so bad because of the teacher don’t know anything about education. Being in the profession is under attack and everyone has to make their own decisions about staying in or getting out. I have always respected teachers and appreciate everything they have ever done for me. I can’t say my education was perfect but it was effective and I honor that. I hope the coming generations can experience those types of teachers in their lifetime instead of these temporary visitors to the profession.
Bruce Reed @RealClearEd on #Vergara: “We’ve kept America’s students waiting long enough” for equal opportunity.
He was in DC for a hundred years, he worked for Clinton and then Biden before he his current public-private partnership. I don’t know why he’s not responsible for equal opportunity.
Turns out, it was teachers all along! Glad we got that sorted out.
It has nothing to do with anyone who is now or ever was in power. I think that much is clear from this historic decision.
Much gloating today among the Vichy collaborators with the PreK-12 occupation forces of the Rheeformation.
Yes, gloat all they want. They’ve woken a sleeping giant.
I very much hope that you are right there, TC
A bean counters guide to counting the intangibles in low income education. Can Chetty calculate how much goodwill in billions of dollars was lost by attacking the integrity of the 98% of teachers who go above and beyond the call of duty?
This was a horrible decision by an activist judge who could have, at the very least, made a much narrower ruling but chose not to.
I support tenure and due process. That said, it is also the case that teachers’ unions often insist on work rules that make it practically impossible to fire bad teachers, and the unions routinely drag firings through appeals processes for as long as possible. As is so often the case with unions, solidarity often trumps ethics or good sense.
Teachers need protection, yes. But schools should also have the ability — without having to jump through flaming hoops on a highwire — to fire teachers for cause. There has to be a balance.
BTW, nothing I wrote should be construed to suggest that “bad teachers” can be identified using VAM or any of that other garbage. I’m talking here about teachers who come to work hungover, or who show movies all day, or verbally abuse students, etc.
Take the case of teacher jails in LAUSD. Do you think its the teacher who chooses to be taken from class and placed in a detention room indefinitely while LASUD fabricates charges? Teachers want due process and they want it in a fair and speedy manner. That is not done in LAUSD. Bottom line, teachers don’t control anything and the fault in the system is not the teacher’s, period.
After reading through the text of the decision, I am horrified that one human being–not a panel of judges or a jury–is in the position of making such an important finding impacting so many lives. Judge Treu does not come across as particularly intellectually gifted or impartial. In judicial ratings by lawyers he scored extremely low on temperament and bias. Apparently he is notorious for handing out contempt citations for very little cause. This document reads like it was written by someone who made up his mind in advance, and then cherry picked his supporting “facts”. He appears to have no awareness or concern for large scale repercussions resulting from his decision. For example, he’s basing his decision on the “education is a civil right” argument, citing students have a higher percent of “grossly ineffective teachers” in poorer neighborhoods, and yet, we all know the outcome or this decision in many districts is going to be the unloading of experienced, higher salaried teachers. Let’s hope in the appeals round, the judging is of a higher caliber.
I would be interested in hearing from a lawyer what California’s appeals process is like. In most jurisdictions, appeals judges (as I understand it) are not allowed to question findings of fact, only matters of law or procedure.
I would be interested in hearing from an appeals lawyer as well. You make a good point. It does present something of a problem when the facts aren’t factual, but are based experts say… argument.
In this case, the “factual findings” in the judge’s opinion all involve the application of law to facts. The appeals court will review those de novo. I don’t know shinola about California but I’m sure it’s pretty much like every other jurisdiction on this issue.
What you wrote has to do with real fact-finding along the lines of “the light was red when the plaintiff drove through the intersection.” Appeals courts won’t reverse that kind of factual finding unless it was “clearly erroneous” (for example, if the jury finds the light was red but a contemporaneous photograph shows the light was green). The same deference is used for factual findings that depend on an assessment of a witness’s credibility (for example, if the jury finds the light was red despite eyewitness testimony that the light was green because the jury found the eyewitness was lying).
O.K., thanks for the clarification. What you laid out makes a lot of sense.
Marian Higgins, agreed. When reading the decision, I was struck by the thinness of the evidence. For example, the judge cites David Berliner, testifying for the defense, as saying that 1-3% of teachers are “grossly ineffective.” That sounds like a ballpark figure, guesswork, or hearsay, but the judge seizes upon it as incontrovertible fact. Which it is not.
A side note on this terribly sad and harmful decision. *Profuse apologies for a very long posting.*
The owner of this blog has provided various links about the Vergara case. I include the following (one of many) from the LATIMES—
Link: http://www.latimes.com/local/education/la-me-teacher-lawsuit-20140611-story.html#page=1
A bit from the article and then some brief observations.
[start quote]
In his ruling, Treu consistently echoed the arguments of the attorneys who sued California and the top public officials responsible for the state’s education laws.
He accepted, for example, that teachers can be evaluated fairly through a statistical analysis based on student test scores, a point of dispute among some educators and experts. He cited testimony quantifying how many months of learning a student can lose because of a bad teacher.
He noted that another expert said a poor instructor costs a class $1.4 million in lifetime earnings.
The judge also cited an assertion from the L.A. Unified School District, the nation’s second-largest, that it would like to fire 350 teachers, but restrictions got in the way.
At the same time, he buttressed his ruling using testimony from witnesses called to defend the laws.
Treu wrote that one defense witness “testified that 1% to 3% of teachers in California are grossly ineffective.” That works out to 2,750 to 8,250 poor-performing teachers. For Treu, this was evidence of a constitutional violation.
He did not accept contrary assertions that the overall quality of the workforce compares well with other fields. Nor did he accept that making it easier to purge ineffective teachers could have unintended, negative consequences, such as detracting from recruiting and retaining top talent.
[end quote]
I sometimes quote Andrew Lang’s pointed remark:
“He uses statistics like a drunken man uses lamp posts—for support rather than for illumination.”
I don’t do it for fun [ok, you got me—but I’m poking fun at deserving parties] but to make a point. For example, what is the threshold that must be crossed before the heavy broad sword of at-will punishment (up to and including firing) is wielded against all teachers? Not so “much” as 3% but if as “little” as 1% are “grossly ineffective.” This is only true of the teaching profession? Every other profession has 100% proficient and highly effective practitioners?
The definition of what constitutes “grossly ineffective”? Not a peep. And as others have remarked, the teachers didn’t hire and evaluate themselves. I must add that I know from personal experience that grossly ineffective (and even harmful) teachers are retained and protected by “grossly ineffective” (and even harmful) administrators. This ruling will do nothing about this situation. *All apologies to you ethical and hard working admins, but I must state the truth about the rotten apples.*
I caution everyone to watch out for what Joel Best calls “a mutant statistic, one garbled almost beyond recognition” (DAMNED LIES AND STATISTICS: UNTANGLING NUMBERS FROM THE MEDIA, POLITICIANS, AND ACTIVISTS, 2012, updated edition, p. 4). To what am I referring?
The judge “noted that another expert said a poor instructor costs a class $1.4 million in lifetime earnings.” Just how did that figure arise? Let’s look at a rough transcript:
[start quote]
Q WHAT IS THE TOTAL LOSS FOR A CLASSROOM IN HAVING AN HIGHLY INEFFECTIVE TEACHER IN YOUR OPINION?
A THE TOTAL LOSS FOR A CLASSROOM IS STRAIGHTFORWARD TO CALCULATE, SHOWN ON THIS SLIDE, SIMPLY THE $50,000 PER CHILD TIMES THE SIZE OF THE CLASSROOM. IN OUR DATA, THERE ARE 28 STUDENTS ON AVERAGE PER CLASSROOM. SO TYPICAL FIGURE FOR MOST SCHOOL DISTRICTS. AND SO 28 TIMES $50,000 IS $1.4 MILLION PER CLASSROOM.
[end quote]
Leave aside for the moment the question of definitions, who chose them, and being transparent about the data so that others can check and double-check that even by the methods and standards of the witness that the numbers are correct.
I am not a betting person, but anybody want to wager that the $1.4 million@classroom will mutate in many people’s mind’s into $1.4 million@student? I take that back—I am not a thief, so all bets are off. This is like the rumor-reported-as-fact that the average Chicago teacher makes approx. $77,000@year…
Link: http://www.vergaratrial.com/storage/documents/2014.01.30_Rough_am_session.txt
And finally, docilely accepting VAM? I mean, even innumeracy has its limits… I suspect there may be a JuristForAmerica program that only requires five weeks of training before one is qualified to sit on the bench.
What’s that? Rheeally?!?!? According to the usual unconfirmed rumors, for the JFA final exam they have to give a flawless performance of this stirring piece from THE WIZARD OF OZ [first two verses]:
I could while away the hours
Conferrin’ with the flowers
Consultin’ with the rain
And my head, I’d be scratchin’
While my thoughts were busy hatchin’
If I only had a brain!
Woulda, coulda, shoulda…
😎
definitely the best post I have read on this, KrazyTA. Kudos!
Thanks, the premise of the “mutant statistic” is one of the things that I think needs to be disputed as a ballpark guess, at best.
Well, I am shocked, shocked to see the contrast in the educational opportunities afforded to children living in affluent parts of Los Angeles County as contrasted with the poor kids who are stuck in LAUSD where they don’t even have the basics, as in libraries. Their dedicated teachers are severely handicapped by the lack of basic resources. I am also shocked, shocked, shocked at the number of high-paid administrators in LAUSD while the teachers use their own money for books and supplies!!!
It’s time for teachers, parents and concerned citizens to take the lead in authentic reform for poor children. Let’s take some students from LAUSD, go to court and demand that these students get educational opportunities EQUAL to what the students in Palos Verdes are getting. Now THAT would be a change!
The main problem here is how can one, uninformed, biased judge who wants his 15 minutes of fame reverse the decisions of a legislature who passed these laws. Faulty reasoning and an over reliance on privateer opinions seems to have governed this decision. This only goes to show that the public has no idea of what is going on in education. To blame teachers for the state of education is short sighted and wrong. To punish teachers and their unions for advocating for better working conditions is wrong, We have methods to dismiss poor performing teachers, that brain-dead administrators are too lazy to do the work to dismiss is not the teacher’s fault. This decision is discriminatory and caters to the mentality of get the teacher now.
“uber due process” Where’s an English only law or Godwins law when you need one.
Cross posted at Oped-news.
http://www.opednews.com/Quicklink/What-Was-the-Evidence-in-t-in-Best_Web_OpEds-Education_Privatization_Teacher-140611-508.html#comment494195
I would like to see some of your comments there. No one follows education news there, and it considers itself a ‘progressive site.’
Wow. I follow LAUSD and have, over a decade. I met Lenny Isenberg online, when he put up perdaily.com and imagined that he would break the curtain of silence that allowed the corruption to flourish and the teachers to become fodder for the administration to burn at the stake. If you have never read his site, do go. This is to an essay he put up YEARS AGO, but you should read others. HE is brilliant and a tireless fighter.
http://www.perdaily.com/2014/06/lausds-treacherous-road-from-reed-to-vergara–its-never-been-about-students-just-money.html
Would teachers prefer the appeal be heard by a Democratic or Republican judge?
Are there Green Party judges, in California?
This needs to go to the SUPREME COURT!
SCOTUS has a Republican majority.
Ironically, it is poor kids who are most likely to lose.
The loss of tenure is a very high profile blow to an already publicly demonized job.
That public demonization has already led to far fewer students entering teacher prep programs and faster teacher burnout.
This decision will either accelerate or at best, not change that trend.
If there are fewer people coming into the job, are the “great” teachers likely to end up in the inner city or the wealthy suburbs?
That trend alone might kill the education reform movement: even if they buy all the politicians and get all their policies enacted, what will they do if no one wants to be a teacher?
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/06/11/b-c-teachers-on-brink-of-all-out-strike-after-union-votes-in-favour-of-walk-out/
Meanwhile, in Canada. . . .
The war against the middle class has diminished the role of the unions, which were the working man’s only defense.
sigh!
The responses to the articles are almost uniformly anti-teacher. It really is scary how little people understand about what teachers do.
We are coming off more than a decade of anti-teacher rhetoric from Education Deformers. So, this is not surprising. Disgusting, horrifying, dispiriting, but not surprising.
2 Decades!
Well, we could probably go back three. Starting with A Nation at Risk, that earliest of the Rheeformish scriptures (1983).
Insidious.
But the anti-teacher rhetoric has been extreme in recent years.
Witness the crowning of the Michelle Rhee as queen of Rheeform, the Time magazine cover of her with the broom. Time to sweep out all that teacher trash!
When I was a boy, I was taught to honor and respect my teachers.
I still do.
By now, you know that I was caught unaware by the top-down revolution… where those I once trusted to support my practice , want dmd GONE! There is no describing the kind of teacher-trashing that went on in NYC. During my time in the rubber room, I met teachers of great quality, whose students and their parents were furious at their disappearance. I saw them sob and witnessed their trauma. What you read about int the press does not begin to tell the tale of the assault on America’s veteran teachers. You should read Lorna Stremcha’s book when it comes out. It’s title is not yet settled, but hers is a story you cannot miss. She testified before Congress, by the way.
The decision was solely political with no hard evidence connecting due process to ineffective teaching. I hope it moves up the ladder
Michelle Rhee: “I think this is an absolutely huge win for public school students across the country.”
She was being interviewed today on The Take Away: http://www.thetakeaway.org/story/california-judge-rules-against-teachers-unions-sparks-education-reform-debate/
I fought the urge to switch to a different channel on my NPR News App. The interviewer seemed to buy most of the tired rhetoric and shaky evidence she was spouting. One problem is that Michelle Rhee is a polished performer, able to deliver complete sentences that make sense to the uninformed. She and her fellow “reformers” really know how to get ink and air time (and funding, which helps pay for both).
I’m getting the impression that the defendants’ attorneys weren’t very effective. The judge seems to have bought the entire tissue-thin case presented by the plaintiff’s attorneys. It looks like we’re going to have to offer an authentic and truly gripping counter-narrative. In this venue at least, the “reform” story pummeled the true story. Why wasn’t the defense able to have the case thrown out before it even went to trial? I think they must have told a weak story, or no story at all.
Randal Hendee: Michelle Rhee fits into this perfectly.
Why? Because an important part of due process is about defining and acting, i.e., setting clear and reasonable limits and fairly enforcing them. If anything even resembling ethical due process had been in place and acted upon by competent and ethical administrators while she was doing her brief three-year teaching stint during the early 1990s—and made the mouths of dozens of her students bleed—she would have been questioned, judged and rightfully terminated. With prejudice. And with lots of documentation to back it up.
Google “Michelle Rhee,” “masking tape” and “students.”
Here is one of many many examples: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-zucker/michelle-rhee-and-masking_b_801339.html
Then why is she tooting that “absolutely huge win” horn? The SOP of the leaders of the self-styled “education reform” movement is to say one thing and do another.
A very dead, very old, and extremely Greek guy knew the type in his day:
“Hateful to me as are the gates of hell, Is he who, hiding one thing in his heart, Utters another.” [Homer]
Thank you for your comments.
😎
P.S. Watch out for the masking tape!
😡
May their own actions curse them! Years from now, when there are an insignificant number of experienced teachers left will they sue because all they are getting are ineffective TFA recruits non stop? It would serve them right, the end result will be far worse than the current situation. The parents and students will find out they were used.
But they won’t. Didn’t you know? TFA will SMASH the achievement gap. And it won’t matter to the billionaires. Their kids don’t go to public schools. I loved Edushyster’s comment about the “billionaires who care more about poor children than the people who work with them every day.”
Of course we hope that only effective teachers get tenure. But one of the problems in California is that tenure must, by law, be granted after two years, when the teacher is still learning. (A recent proposal to extend that to three years in San Jose, agreed to by the local union, was blocked by the state union). But sometime principals make mistakes. Sometimes a teacher burns out and becomes ineffective. Sometimes a change in technology or school programs render them ineffective. Tenure serves to protect teachers, but it also serves to lock them in place, because no one wants to leave tenure behind, so fewer jobs are available for teachers who want a change.
I agree that teachers need to know that they can’t be fired at the whim of an outraged parent or trend-chasing administrator. But the idea that someone’s employment should be guaranteed for life and unrelated to their performance is no longer seen as reasonable. Lifetime tenure should be replaced with guaranteed multi-year contracts, which would give teachers stability and latitude without the downsides of lifetime tenure.
We teachers do not have “lifetime” tenure, we have due process rights. There is a difference. What change do these teachers that want a change you allude to want? Merit pay, the teachers at low scoring schools will continue to lose and be blamed for things they can not control. “Tenured” teachers are fired all the time, administration has to do their job and show they have a legitimate reason for firing them. Clearly you do not understand the contractual agreement in this matter. As a teacher I only have a job as long as I do my job.
For more discussion of the ruling, and the idea of “strict scrutiny” that put a heavy burden on the defense rather than the plaintiffs, I invite you to read:
http://accomplishedcaliforniateachers.wordpress.com/2014/06/11/vergara-ruling/
“The most important labor law case SCOTUS has considered in decades.” – Harris vs. Quinn, according to the Center for Media and Democracy. In the article, they link the case to Koch money and to ALEC.
I have no strong opinion on the merits of this case, I do not know too much about Michelle Rhee who seems to be routinely maligned on this blog, yet I have grown progressively sympathetic to her intentions. She may be going about it in a completely wrongheaded way — I do not know enough to judge, but unlike so many of you here (along with the Teacher Union you seem so staunchly defend) she actually identifies a *huge* problem and is trying to do something about it. And no, I am not a Fox News-viewing tea-partier and I am not paid by the Koch brothers. I am a science professor at the University of California, Riverside and I tend to consider myself a liberal. I am a scientist though and I am both trained and paid to deal with the objective reality and not substitute my wishes and biases for the hard data.
And here is what the objective reality looks like to me. A large number of students who come to my university are woefully unprepared or under-prepared. That is, a large number of students have been under-served by the present school system which so many of you are so eager to defend. I routinely spend a large portion of my introductory classes teaching them what I knew coming out of a high school a mere quarter a century ago. Translation: I have no choice but to do the job that *should have been* done by the high school teachers. And it’s not just me; I hear similar sentiments from my friends and colleagues in other departments ranging from Math to English.
So let me repeat: I frequently do the job a school teacher has failed to do. And the students that come our way were presumably near the top of their class. Can you imagine how badly these teachers fail those who don’t go to college?
So remind me please, what do you have against people trying to reform this system?
And before you accuse me in engaging in double standards while enjoying my own tenure, let me make it clear: I would not fight tooth and nail to preserve the tenure system in academia. It’s definitely a perk and an incentive of sorts. Were tenure to disappear though, I would expect our salaries to rise in order to compensate for that lost intensive. Believe it or not, we have other employment opportunities.
The same is true of school teachers, of course. Good teachers should be paid more. Ineffective teachers should go. The future of our children trumps seniority.
Your experiences are consistent with mine. I am surprised that you find it as much of a problem at a UC school.
I think you should be asking why NCLB was instituted and teaching to the test had to be done. When I first began teaching in AZ in 1998, NCLB had not been fully instituted. I was allowed to be creative, allowed independent thinking in my classroom, took my students on at least three field trips per year, held classroom meetings to teach my students communication skills, etc. This was a Title I school, and I enjoyed teaching my students. Then NCLB took over, and I could no longer teach creatively. I would be put on an improvement plan and fired if I didn’t do it “their” way. I don’t know of any teachers that thought that teaching to the test was okay for our students or taking away our creativity was okay. In the beginning, if I had students I suspected of learning disabilities, I could go directly to the school psychologist. She would schedule a time to come and observe, and then she would tell me if she thought the student needed additional evaluation, etc. A meeting was scheduled with the parents and the child was helped. Not anymore. If a teacher suspects a child has disabilities, you must schedule a child study. You meet with the principal, social worker, counselor, other teachers. You are usually given strategies to try. By the time you ask for another meeting, there is usually no funding left to evaluate the student, so you are told they will revisit the situation next year. Many of my students fell through the cracks this way. I don’t defend the current system. I think we should revamp the current system and offer more choices to our parents in all schools–not just wealthy schools. We should start putting more funding into our low income schools and stop putting so much money into prisons. Many of our low income students are going to these prisons. The current “reformation” is not doing the things needed to help our public schools or to help you, professor, when you receive these students. They are helping to create the problems, so there will be no more public schools.
Dottie – No question that NCLB should probably get some sort of prize for one of the stupidest and most quixotic pieces of legislation ever passed. It’s professed goal was to bring the entire US student population up to or above what was that time the 70th percentile.
The ability of our political system to produce policies of mind-boggling stupidity is awesome.
If one disaggregates PISA scores by demographics then the US educational system looks pretty good. US whites outscore all predominantly white countries other than Finland and New Zealand. Asian-Americans (who are not all East Asian) outscore Japan. US Hispanics outscore all Latin American countries. Even US blacks outscore most Middle Eastern countries.
True we probably over invest in education. The poor country of Slovakia doesn’t spend much more per capita than Mexico yet gets fairly decent results.
Jim, I was excessed to another school due to asking too many questions about how we were going to get all students including special ed to 100% by 2014. This principal stacked my class with every learning disability, emotional/behavior problem he could find the next year. Then he refused to let me get them help through child studies or even using the time out room. When I went to my Association for help, I received little. Many teachers were forced out of this school. Twelve complaints were filed–nothing happened to him–he went to another district. But, he hurt many teachers. Interesting side note–I did get one student the help she needed before he forbid it. She was full-blown autistic. Why no one had helped her before 4th grade, I don’t know. I also bonded with this very difficult class. But, one day at the end of the year after school, I cried my eyes out, because I felt like a failure, not being able to help these students and thinking what will become of them.
Thinkubus, I have absolutely NO problem with the idea and notion of reform. From your experience and my own ten years in a middle school classroom, we all know that something has to change if WE (and by this we I mean SOCIETY) truly want to see children succeed- I sometimes wonder if this a hope of everyone.
Let me start by giving you my own experience. I had 130 seventh graders this year. Of these 130 students, 24 could read on grade level or above. When I went to my supervisor with this information in October, I was told that I was not a reading teacher and I was to continue on with our boxed in curriculum. I was told, the kids would be successful because I could guide students through the readings that are in this curriculum in all different ways.
Now, with all of these mandates and these powerful people who have the answers about reform and getting our children to succeed, I have two questions: Why can’t my children read? What is the purpose of reform if results are not produced?
The idea of reform is amazing. What scares me is these powerful people, who just don’t seem to get it, are in charge of it all and have the most influence(are their intentions genuine?).
I don’t have the answers either, but I do know that children should be able to read, especially by the time they reach me (I know your frustration- I also served as an adjunct at my local community college for developmental writing because the population of students who need these services has skyrocketed). There is a problem, a solution is needed, but I don’t know if focusing on tenure and teacher pay is where the attention is needed.
Thinkubus, I sympathize with your willingness to deal with facts, whether pleasant or not. The host of this blog is also interested in dealing with facts, whether pleasant or not.
One unpleasant fact about social and psychological processes are that these are hard to measure. Also, the goals of successful education are very hard to define or understand well enough to be explained clearly. What we really want from schools is something like learning or ability to learn. But that’s hard to understand or define, let alone measure.
Another unpleasant fact is that measurements, such as standardized test scores, are only proxies for the real things we want to measure, namely learning and the ability or willingness to learn.
Yet another unpleasant fact is that statistical inferences from such measurements are muddied by the strong effects from confounders, especially parental income, which is the best predictor of achievement in every country. This is not a pleasant fact.
Yet another unpleasant fact is that even when research is done well, it will be reinterpreted by the political process for the advantage of political actors.
Yet another unpleasant fact is that social institutions, such as schools, are not easily engineered to produce results from humans, such as high test scores (let alone learning or ability to learn). So the test score cheating scandals in Atlanta and Houston should be no surprise.
Yet another unpleasant fact is that reforms of social institutions need not be carried out fairly in order to please their political sponsors.
One more unpleasantness.
You say, “Were tenure to disappear though, I would expect our salaries to rise in order to compensate for that lost intensive.”
Good luck with that.
There are new database products designed to allow university administrators to survey researcher productivity just like a stock portfolio.
Assessment is coming to higher education.
I hope you do well by your metrics. Your colleagues might not.
I am an academic librarian. Journals in some academic fields have consistently better metrics than journals in other fields. Mathematics, for example, always looks bad by comparison. Attempts to “normalize” the data are not really statistically sound.
Should I then cancel all mathematics journals, as one might fire the “bad” teachers, if it saves money? No.
Reading about the repute of Chetty and Kane within their field impresses me about as much as hearing that Ted Nugent got an Image Award from the NRA. It doesn’t improve my image of the reputees or their field one little bit. In both cases there is a radical disconnection from the realities of normal and optimal life.
But when it comes to expertise on what it takes to further the full development of growing human beings, I know I would trust the grossly average teacher and the field of education far and away above the theories of ivory-&-ivy econ artists.
If it is shocking what one bad teacher does, he would be electrified to know what administrative corruption, lawlessness and incompetence did to the LAUSD schools so that so many graduating seniors could barely read beyond second grade skills.
What was the evidence is the question. Essential questions lead the way to understanding and solutions… so here is one for you all, who are discussing this at great length while a teacher in LA who actually fought the battle is suing the union and the district. What happened before this judge re-wrote the law of due process for teachers?
It would help if you go to this link,
here is the link, but I am copying the essay below this commentary.
http://www.perdaily.com/2014/06/lausds-treacherous-road-from-reed-to-vergara–its-never-been-about-students-just-money.html
and read what that teacher, Lenny Isenberg said about the Reed case which PRECEEDED this fiasco. It would also help if you perused the per daily archive and pondered the real dilemma that Lenny put out there when he started this site. years ago… not long after he was led away in handcuffs, for blowing the whistle on the corrupt-to-the core-administration that had created a system where the ethnic population that was the majority in this system was being passed through the schools to graduate with 2nd grade literacy skills.
LAUSD’S TREACHEROUS ROAD FROM REED TO VERGARA- IT’S NEVER BEEN ABOUT STUDENTS, JUST MONEY by Lenny Isenberg
This is nothing new… it is just new here, because no one listened to this brilliant man, whose posts chronicle the entire corrupt process and call for TEACHERS WHO WILL STAND UP AND BE COUNTED.
The media knew the story, just like in NYC where media was in the pocket of the billionaire mayor.
http://www.opednews.com/Quicklink/HAVE-REPORTERS-BECOME-POLI-in-Best_Web_OpEds-Media_Media-Bias_Media-Blackout_Media-Corruption-140322-673.html and this one
http://www.opednews.com/Quicklink/HAVE-REPORTERS-BECOME-POLI-in-Best_Web_OpEds-Media_Media-Bias_Media-Blackout_Media-Corruption-140322-673.html
and while you are at it, do read this one, because Lenny could have taken the way out, too… but stayed the fight. Lenny is not perfect, and has his flaws like all determined brilliant people, but he knows that we all lose because we trust the unions and believe in justice… and that is what “THEY” count on, and why 100,000 veteran teachers have been hounded into obscurity and out of the PROFESSION they loved….it never was a job for the authentic teacher.
http://www.perdaily.com/2013/11/lausd-gives-me-a-chance-to-be-a-hero-for-student-teachers-and-families.html
Contrary to what was asserted in 2010 with the Reed vs. State of California case, and now with the Vergara vs. State of California case, cutting the budget by attacking tenured teachers at the top of the salary scale is the real motive of both the plaintiffs and the defendants in these put up cases that are anything but adversarial as actually required by law. The well-being of students and their constitutional right to an education has nothing to do with why teacher tenure and seniority are under attack. Corporate interests have gotten behind these two cases with collusive lawsuits against the State of California and the Los Angeles Unified School District as defendants, when these defendants actually share the plaintiffs desire to destroy a professional and fairly compensated teaching force solely for the motive of profit to more and more hedge fund run charters and the further dumbing down of our future electorate, so the average citizen will not have enough of an education to meaningfully comprehend just how badly they are being screwed.
If “teacher quality and effectiveness” as well as having the best education for students in “high-poverty and high-minority” areas that have not done well in the past was really the issue, insuring an environment of reasonable discipline, while finally eliminating destabilizing social promotion would have been implemented long ago. Most poor and minority students enter LAUSD behind and are never brought up to grade-level in a timely manner, which becomes more impossible as years go by. Inner-city predominantly poor and minority filled schools- LAUSD is 90% Latino and Black- are not just bad for the students, they are toxic for any serious teacher not willing to go along with the complete lack of rigor mindlessly enforced by entrenched LAUSD administration. No secondary single-subject credentialed teacher- whatever their level of seniority- can be expected to teach humiliated students that LAUSD administration continues to put in classes years beyond their objective ability. Clearly this is the recipe for the disaster that LAUSD continues to be, which has nothing to do with teacher seniority.
The reason that schools like Liechty, Gompers, and Markham Middle Schools, mentioned in the Reed case, were so adversely impacted when it came to loss of predominantly novice teaching staff, was because any teacher with enough seniority wouldn’t be caught dead in a school where there was no support for excellence in education that the plaintiffs in the aforementioned cases supposedly so desperately claim they want in their lawsuit. Any teacher who insists on excellence and has the teaching skill to do it has been systematically targeted over the last 5 years, brought up on fabricated charges, and removed or forced into early retirement.
Both Reed and Vergara purposefully ignore the context in which seniority-based reductions take place. No mention is made of excellent teachers being completely undermined in a system that values Average Daily Attendance (ADA) payments from the State more than whether the students are actually learning something of value in a timely manner. The fact that 55% of Roosevelt High School students have quit school before ever reaching the 12th grade and that only 30% of the graduating class has the A-G requirements necessary to get them into the University of California schools says it all, but is conveniently ignored in Vergara.
What is the financial and pedagogic cost of 50% of new teachers quitting LAUSD within their first 5 years of teaching? Why are they quitting? What’s the cost of having to constantly replace that level of attrition to a cash strapped public education system? If the students were really the concern in Reed and Vergara, wouldn’t some of those behind the financing of Reed and Vergara have found more fertile ground in trying to find out why so many initially dedicated teachers leave the profession like they are abandoning a sinking ship. But, alas, one would have to look at those running LAUSD into the ground, instead of scapegoating teachers, while their inept union United Teachers Los Angeles (UTLA) sits by and does nothing.
And finally, none of this scam would be possible without the complete complicity of the mainstream and public media, who are owned by some of the same players trying to privatize public education with charters. Supposed charitable trusts like Eli Broad, Bill Gates, and the Waltons control subsidized NPR to the point where NPR will report nothing to contradict what Professor Diane Ravitch calls “the dominant narrative of bad teachers and great charters. What is ultimately at stake is allowing 40% of the state supplied public school budget to go for “charter administration costs,” while allowing the further dumbing down of our future citizens. Check out the following very typical stenographic “news” report of Elex Michaelson of KABC that merely parrots Broad Academy party line:
Chetty’s evidence on which this extraordinary ruling is based hasn’t even appeared in any peer-reviewed journal – it was published as an NBER working paper. The charts he showed to the judge (see http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/06/10/a-california-judge-just-ruled-that-teacher-tenure-is-bad-for-students/) violate basic rules of scientific data presentation: the y-axes are all manipulated, the error bars and R-square values are missing. That a judge would accept such weak evidence to strike down statutes is disturbing and highlights the lack of scientific literacy of the judiciary. Maybe that too can be blamed on the teachers.
It is forthcoming in AER. See my other comment.
Is AER publishing the charts without error bars and r-square values and with manipulated y-axes? What is your opinion, teachingeconomist, of showing transparently manipulated statistical charts in a court room? Is that acceptable practice among economists?
You are free to download the data set and the SAS code if you want to look for signs of manipulation.
That is not what I asked. Are you one of the authors of the paper?
No, I am not.
I dug a bit deeper about the Chetty et al. study. Here’s what I found:
The study was first published as an NBER working paper at http://obs.rc.fas.harvard.edu/chetty/value_added.pdf in 2011. It was submitted to American Economic Review and accepted after being split in two papers. Preprints can be found at http://obs.rc.fas.harvard.edu/chetty/w19424.pdf and http://obs.rc.fas.harvard.edu/chetty/w19423.pdf.
All the charts in all versions of the papers violate scientific data presentation standards:
– all Y-axes are “super-extra-stretchy” (Bruce Baker), exaggerating the purported statistical effect by orders of magnitude;
– none of the charts have error bars or confidence intervals; if they were shown, the error bars would certainly exceed the purported statistical effect by far;
– no r-square values or correlation coefficients are given; the r-squares are likely to be very low;
– the sample sizes on which the regressions are based are not shown; although the study drew on millions of student records, most of the records were incomplete and the actual regressions are based on only a fraction of the records.
I dug a bit deeper about the Chetty et al. study. Here’s what I found:
The study was first published as an NBER working paper 2011. It was submitted to American Economic Review and accepted after being split in two papers. Preprints can be found online.
All the charts in all versions of the papers violate scientific data presentation standards:
– all Y-axes are “super-extra-stretchy” (Bruce Baker), exaggerating the purported statistical effect by orders of magnitude;
– none of the charts have error bars or confidence intervals; if they were shown, the error bars would certainly exceed the purported statistical effect by far;
– no r-square values or correlation coefficients are given; the r-squares are likely to be very low;
– the sample sizes on which the regressions are based are not shown; although the study drew on millions of student records, most of the records were incomplete and the actual regressions are based on only a fraction of the records.
Criticisms of the working paper by Bruce Baker (schoolfinance101.wordpress.com/2012/01/07/fire-first-ask-questions-later-comments-on-recent-teacher-effectiveness-studies/) and Moshe Adler (epaa.asu.edu/ojs/article/download/1264/1033) are worth reading. Adler points out that Chetty et al. report a small (albeit visually wildly exaggerated) but statistically significant effect of teacher VAM on student earnings at age 28 *but they found no effect at all on earnings at age 30*. Explains Adler:
“However, although the result they found for 30 year olds is not statistically significant, the words “not statistically significant” are nowhere to be found in their study. Instead the authors write, “The 95% confidence interval for the estimate is very wide. We therefore focus on earnings impacts up to age 28 for the remainder of our analysis.” … Furthermore, they didn’t just “focus” on earning impacts up to age 28; instead they proceeded as if the result for 28 year olds, an increase in income of .09%, was also the result that they found for 30 year olds, and made the assumption that this would have also been the result for any subsequent age group. Based on this assumption, which is contradicted by their own evidence, they calculated a life-time benefit of $25,000 from an increase of one standard deviation in teacher value-added. … After conducting a study its authors cannot ignore the results; science does not permit cherry picking. The result that teacher value-added does not have a statistically significant impact on earnings at age 30 must be part of any conclusion drawn from the Chetty et al. study.”
Damningly, the AER version of the paper omits even mentioning the negative finding for earnings at 30. The language from the working paper has simply been removed from the AER version! The editors and reviewers of AER must answer some hard questions about their scientific standards.
Here is Chetty’s response to Alder: http://obs.rc.fas.harvard.edu/chetty/Adler_response.pdf
I should add that Figure 1c, 2b, 4, and 7 all include the 95% confidence interval as a dashed line. The standard errors are all reported in all tables in the parentheses below the estimated coefficient.