This post arrived as a comment.
It bears directly on one of the major issues in the Common Core: Will uniform national standards encourage or discourage creativity? Bill Gates wrote recently that teachers would be more creative because of the CC, but on second reading, it seems what he meant was that the publishers and innovators would develop new apps for teachers to use and deliver lessons. He wrote: “In fact, the standards will give teachers more choices. When every state had its own standards, innovators making new educational software or cutting-edge lesson plans had to make many versions to reach all students. Now, consistent standards will allow more competition and innovation to help teachers do their best work.”
David Sudmeier has a different take on what standards mean in the classroom. He writes:
Does Music Lie?
“Music doesn’t lie. If there is something to be changed in this world, then it can only happen through music.” Jimi Hendrix
But what is music? That might sound like a ridiculous question, but I wonder how our history might have been different if Standards Based Music Education had been the focus of schools in the 1940s or ‘50s.
I can only imagine what “standards” would have been imposed on little James Marshall Hendrix. Who would have been selected to write the standards? Certainly not the musicians that led the way in jazz, blues or bluegrass—Duke Ellington, McKinley Morganfield and Bill Monroe need not apply. The more likely candidate — Will Earhart, a music educator who you’ve probably never heard of. Earhart was convinced that the “beauty” of music should be appreciated by all students. Appreciate beauty? Great idea, isn’t it? But how would it be measured or described? Earhart’s standard for beauty clearly excluded the amplified instruments used in rock and roll or the loose approach to rhythm that characterizes blues music. Jimi would have failed according to such standards—his playing was frequently ahead of or behind the beat, his amplifier distorted, with feedback shrieking. Some music educators today might still side with Earhart.
Standards tend to be written by academics, and the standards they produce are essentially conservative—they preserve the status quo rather than encourage learners to challenge accepted practice or extend the boundaries of a discipline. A standards-oriented musical academic of that era might have told Jimi, “You’re right, music doesn’t lie. If there is something to be changed in this world, it better happen outside of music. And what you’re doing isn’t music.”
History has spoken on that subject. Jimi changed the face of popular music, and had to do so entirely outside of the academic scene. How many other “Jimis” have been made to feel inadequate, unwanted, or inept at school because their interpretation of content, concepts or skills lay beyond an accepted academic norm?
If you’re a parent of a student, consider the impact that a standards-based education may have on your child’s ability or desire to “think outside the box.” The more we reduce knowledge or skills to a list of arbitrary standards, the more likely that we pre-empt constructive and creative change because we lie to students—we lead them to believe they have “mastered” a subject if they can check off the various boxes on whatever list we proffer.
Does music lie? No. Neither does mathematics, history, or any other field of human endeavor. The truth is that no field of knowledge will ever be complete, nor can a list of “standards” encompass any of the disciplines. When we reduce knowledge to a set of “standards,” we not only encourage students to view education as a finite experience, but also encourage teachers to eliminate anything that didn’t make the cut. Education then ceases to be that open-ended journey that both students and teachers might contribute to.
Don’t lie to students. They deserve to explore the truths we have discovered thus far, and to add their discoveries to the ever-flowing river of learning.
© David Sudmeier, 2014
Follow Dave’s blog at Outcave.wordpress.com !
“consistent standards will allow more competition and innovation to help teachers do their best work.”
And this is where Gates is clueless and disrespectful. We don’t compete. We collaborate and share. We also create, design, innovate DAILY without publishers and software designers.
He is so arrogant and dismissive towards our profession to believe we are incapable of creating our own innovative lessons.
As if all learning comes down to software and apps and all good ideas flow from the “philanthropic cocaine” (thanks, Mercedes) doled out by one bloviating billionaire.
Get a new hobby Bill. You are destroying our country.
Great Post ! Agree!
Purple haze all in my brain
Lately things just don’t seem the same
Actin’ funny, but I don’t know why
Excuse me while I kiss the sky
[First verse of “Purple Haze” by Jimi Hendrix]
Linda—your comments rock!
😎
well said, Linda. I entirely agree.
amen
Bill should have said,
Invariant, inflexible standards will enable economies of scale for a few monopolist educational publishers, ensuring that they can shut out the competition, and they were absolutely necessary, of course, for my new Orwellian national database and curriculum gateway–the idea, there, being to correlate everything–the curriculum and the student responses–to one bullet list.
Creativity through standardization.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, Bill.
As one who majored in music, let me offer a very PARTIAL list of those whose music fell very much outside of what were the prevailing standards before they appeared on the scene:
Gesualdo
Beethoven
Stravinsky (riots at premiere of Sacre du Printempts)
Grateful Dead
Doors
Ray Charles – in multiple areas of music
Mark O’Connor
Wynton Marsalis
Yoyo Ma – consider how he has crossed boundaries
Django Reinhardt
Red Nichols – as compared to the jazz standards of his day
Bix Beiderbecke
Dave Brubeck – think of the album Time Out and the impact it had
Miles Davis
John Coltrane
to name just a few
awesome list, ken!
Django played the guitar with two working fingers on his left hand with a technique absolutely his own.
I love that your list ends with Trane. Whenever, throughout his career, he started receiving a lot of adulation, when the crowds started flocking to his performances, he took that as a sign and went off and stood on a bridge and played for the seagulls until he figured out something new to do.
We cannot ignore the fact that all of the above followed “some” rules of performance practice in order to be able to make their music in the first place. Innovators break the rules all the time, but that does not mean they do not know or even follow some of them.
In our classrooms, we need a balance between expected skills/knowledge and opportunities to apply these in new and creative ways.
I’d like to add Schoenberg, Gershwin and the Beatles to the list, BTW.
Yes, and independent, autonomous teachers should be able to choose from among various formulations of those rules!!!!
How independent will parents allow teachers to be when their students are assigned to the school/classroom by street address?
My parents allow me to be independent because they trust me, so I have earned their respect despite their address. As usual I don’t understand your point if you have one.
My point is that assigning students to schools by street address will require school boards to impose a degree of uniformity across schools. The school board will not require all who live in my elementary school catchment area to attend a Montessori school or prevent all who live in my elementary school catchment area from attending a Waldorf school in the neighboring catchment area. The school board will have to do its best to make sure that all the schools look alike so that the arbitrary assignment of students to a school will have little impact on the student.
what does that have to do with teacher independence?
It has to do with the limits that are placed on you because of the required uniformity across schools. For example, I doubt you would be allowed to convert your school practices to become a Montessori school and remain an all and only traditional zoned school. There would be too much opposition from folks in the catchment area and too many outside it wanting to get into your school. Much easier for the school board to prevent such a move, keeping families indifferent between schools by ensuring uniformity across them.
I am referring to independence in my classroom and you are not. Venus mars
But perhaps a rare moment of agreement. Do you agree that building independence is only possible in a system that allows families the freedom to choose the building?
“The school board will have to do its best to make sure that all the schools look alike so that the arbitrary assignment of students to a school will have little impact on the student.”
Here is what I don’t understand TE.
you have been repeatedly told (and provided numerous examples from all around the country) that this is not true. Especially prior to the test and punish craze brought on by NCLB and it’s evil spawn, many districts experimented with honoring parent/ community request for Montessori, single gender, and all sort of other choices within a single school building.
Your usual response seems to translate to: every single choice possible under the sun was not available in any one school building, there for it doesn’t count.
I really don’t understand.
Ang,
Once again let me point out that I am talking about traditional zoned public schools.
Did these experiential in alternative education happen in the traditional zoned school? Were parents informed that next year their children would be attending a Waldorf school or was a Waldorf approach presents as a choice? Did the school board decide that that every student living on the 800 block of Main Street would now be in a French immersion program and those living in the 900 block would not or were families given a choice?
Another musician who wouldn’t have made the cut because the CC crowd would have found him unacceptable to their backers—
Yusef Lateef died on December 23, 2013, at the age of 93.
My favorite album: “Into Something.”
teacherken: you hit the high notes perfectly.
Thank you so much for your comments.
😎
yes yes yes!!!
The Great Yusef Lateef…
teacherken,
I always enjoy your comments, and generally like the list you’ve provided, with one significant exception. Readers can indulge, disagree with or ignore this comment, as they see fit, since it’s outside the general purview of this site.
Wynton Marsalis – though a fine trumpet player and educator – has done everything but make music outside the prevailing standards. In fact, Marsalis is himself a conservative gatekeeper of jazz who has the tastes of a musical Tory. Because of his prominence, ambition and empire-building, Marsalis has been allowed to be the contemporary arbiter of the jazz canon.
Ken Burns- who admitted that he doesn’t listen to the music – essentially turned his historical series on jazz over to Marsalis, and – though worthwhile, if only for the film footage of the geniuses he chose to include – it is distorted by his musical biases.
In that series, Marsalis had his brother Branford slander pianist and composer Cecil Taylor – “self-indulgent bullshit” – whose musical technique and adventurousness far surpass anything Marsalis has ever accomplished, and whose music exists far outside the realm of “prevailing standards,” standards which Marsalis himself oversees.
In the Burns series, there is no absolutely no mention of Sun Ra, a composer and bandleader whose music spans the entire history of jazz (and has had profound influence outside of it, as well), and who single-handedly introduced electronics, “world music” and free jazz to the genre. We all know Wynton dislikes free jazz – the best of which is deeply rooted in the traditions Marsalis claims to uphold – but is that reason enough to completely ignore its genesis and influence? Granted, it’s my only opinion, but I’d be willing risk a chunk of my tax deferred annuity on a bet that music lovers of the future will be listening to Sun Ra’s music long after Wynton Marsalis has been forgotten.
No Eric Dolphy. No Jimmy Giuffre and Paul Bley. No Art Ensemble of Chicago and AACM, the list goes on and on…
Anyway, sorry for venting on a pet peeve of mine, but I had to bring it up: what Time and Newsweek were to journalism – arbiters of acceptable thinking – Wynton Marsalis is to jazz.
Agreed, Michael. If anyone is a poster child for formality in jazz, it’s Wynton Marsalis.
Just to name a few. I love that. My additions: Scriabin and Satie. And definitely Monk and Sun Ra. And this girl even makes Vivaldi listenable, which is saying a lot:
🙂
Bob, Vivaldi is unlistenable? Depends on who is playing Vivaldi, as you seem to be purporting. The rhetorical approach to Baroque music has changed the performance practice culture in the past two decades. I believe you have been a victim of the Romantic approach to this style, one so prevalent in the 1900s. If you listen to the more authentic rhetorical performances, you may feel differently about Vivaldi.
What you say there, LG, makes a great deal of sense.
I am no Baroque scholar, but I will point you to a very readable, if almost reverent book about the merits of the rhetorical approach to early music by the late, great Bruce Haynes:
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/end-of-early-music-bruce-haynes/1101392220?ean=9780195189872
This movement began to spread right after I was an undergrad, so I effectively missed the entire practice. However, I was fortunate to have taken a Baroque performance practice course in graduate school just last spring where this was required reading among other titles. I could not so glibly explain this approach as the rhetorical practice is far more complicated than can be summed up here in this little space–nor am I qualified as a “novice”–but one way to interpret the whole concept of the rhetorical approach is to find the “conversational” elements in each musical phrase. The self-indulgence and drama of the Romantic styles were just not appropriate for the Baroque era.
There was an entire fleet of performance practice manuals from that time period that memorialized the style conventions that each performer was expected to utilize. There was even great disagreement among differing national factions as to these interpretive practices (sound familiar?), but the bottom line was that each performer was expected to make his own decisions as to where to use what and how. Each performance was therefore unique.
Stylisms morphed out of the innovations of many of the more daring performers while some remained conservative, yet elegant. The point is, this music was never imagined to exist by the concept of just one performer (or even just a handful of performers on the “scene”), and certainly, it was never imagined for performances to exist forever as recordings afford us today. Baroque performance practice epitomized music as a living, breathing human art.
Why do many of us dislike Vivaldi? We’ve been forced to listen to performances of this music with little understanding of what the original treatises told us about practice. Music lovers are fortunate that the rhetorical movement has gained some ground.
Thank you for your lovely note, LG.
My pleasure, Bob.
I always enjoyed Vivladi, but his music was ruined for me by being used as a “high class” signifier in yuppie restaurants and bars for years.
Those probably were not authentic performances anyway. APs would be far too interesting to be relegated as background music.
Perhaps music doesn’t lie. But Mortimer Zuckerman’s US News & World Report sure does.
Consider this piece on the Common Core, written by Allie Bidwell, who is a 2012 graduate of the University of California-Berkeley (doesn’t that mean she’s supposed to be “smart?”).
http://www.usnews.com/news/special-reports/articles/2014/02/27/the-history-of-common-core-state-standards
In the article Bidwell writes that the Common Core is “carefully thought out education reform.” Its development, she says, was “nothing short of an exhaustive and collaborative years-long effort” that was “an absolutely state-led initiative.”
It’s apparent that Bidwell did absolutely no research of her own for this article, and she relies primarily on Rick Hess and Dane Linn for her information.
Rick Hess infamously wrote this nonsense about school vouchers and competition:
“The absence of competition means that public schools, like other government agencies, typically are not subjected to this kind of discipline. No matter how inefficient, employees have little to fear. Subjecting school systems to real competition would indeed produce more effective schools –and other benefits as well. It would provide quality control beyond that afforded by standardized testing, empower entrepreneurial educators to offer alternatives to reigning orthodoxies, and permit good schools to multiply without waiting for permission from resistant district leaders.”
In other words, fear in the workplace is a “good” thing. It leads to “effectiveness.” It causes “quality control.” It fosters the proliferation of “good schools.”
Dane Linn worked formerly for the National Governors Association, the College Board, and is now ensconced at the Business Roundtable as its vice-president of education and workforce. Linn applied recently to be the chancellor of education in Florida under Governor Rick Scott.
Bidwell says in her “history” of the Common Core that the National Governors Association, “along with the Council of Chief State School Officers and the nonprofit education reform group Achieve – came together to make sure the goals of the report became a reality.” She says not a single word about who funds Achieve, nor does she even mention Bill Gates and his role in funding the Common Core.
The common refrain among the“reformers” is that the Common Core is necessary to “make America more competitive” in the global economy. Bill Gates says it. Dane Linn says it. Arne Duncan says it.
The U.S. Chamber of Commerce tells us that “Common core academic standards among the states are essential” U.S. competitiveness. The Business Roundtable resurrects the “rising tide of mediocrity” myth of A Nation at Risk, saying (falsely) that “Since the release of A Nation at Risk in 1983, it has been increasingly clear that…academic expectations for American students have not been high enough.” According to the “reformers, public education needs a very healthy dose of “competition,” “accountability,” “entrepreneurial activity,” and “markets” to strengthen it.
But none of it is true. Yet, you’d never know it by reading Allie Bidwell’s incredibly poor “history” of the Common Core.
I’ve got some advice for Common Core advocates and for education reporters who continue to mislead the public about educational issues: tell the truth.
This song is dedicated to them:
Love your post, Democracy.
Thanks, Yvonne.
I’ve noted on this blog before that the “leaders” at both the AFT and NEA are inept.
And I’ve said multiple times that as long as educators are wedded to ACT and College Board products, the Common Core is definitely going to be implemented. Both ACT and the College Board were instrumental in its development, and both say their products are “aligned” with the Common Core.
The vast majority of mainstream education reporters are abysmal. I cited but one example in my comment above. But just Google ‘This Year’s SAT Scores Are Out, and They’re Grim’ by Julia Ryan in The Atlantic. Utter tripe.
Or read Jay Mathews on Advanced Placement courses. He’s been pimping for the College Board for decades. Here’s one of his latest pieces:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/high-school-course-too-tough-for-you-thats-good/2014/02/16/d00a153c-95db-11e3-9616-d367fa6ea99b_story.html
If you so desire, you can read my (lengthy) comments here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/high-school-course-too-tough-for-you-thats-good/2014/02/16/d00a153c-95db-11e3-9616-d367fa6ea99b_allComments.html?ctab=all_&
Thank you, Yvonne, and Bob.
I’ve noted on this blog before that the “leaders” at both the AFT and NEA are inept.
And I’ve said multiple times that as long as educators are wedded to ACT and College Board products, the Common Core is definitely going to be implemented. Both ACT and the College Board were instrumental in its development, and both say their products are “aligned” with the Common Core.
The vast majority of mainstream education reporters are abysmal. I cited but one example in my comment above. But just Google ‘This Year’s SAT Scores Are Out, and They’re Grim’ by Julia Ryan in The Atlantic. Utter tripe.
Or read Jay Mathews on Advanced Placement courses. He’s been pimping for the College Board for decades. Here’s one of his latest pieces:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/high-school-course-too-tough-for-you-thats-good/2014/02/16/d00a153c-95db-11e3-9616-d367fa6ea99b_story.html
And, if you are interested, you can see my (lengthy) comments regarding that Mathews column here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/high-school-course-too-tough-for-you-thats-good/2014/02/16/d00a153c-95db-11e3-9616-d367fa6ea99b_allComments.html?ctab=all_&
It’s so very important for people to understand the genesis of this stuff. The educrats are being played. Thank you for your post, Democracy!
“…When every state had its own standards, innovators making new educational software or cutting-edge lesson plans had to make many versions to reach all students. Now, consistent standards will allow more competition and innovation to help teachers do their best work.”
This statement is almost completely false. When states had their own standards innovators could tailor their products to each state or just one state in particular. There was a much larger market for innovation. You could tailor your work to how ever many states you wanted too. Now, it is cater to the common core or nothing. There really is little to no room for innovation outside of CCSS. My students LOVE a very CREATIVE program called KidPix…but does it really meet or have a purpose in CCSS…I could probably make it have one but I really use it just to get my younger students to see the limitless possiblities a computer has (art wise). They love it but in a CCSS world would it have been developed…sadly I think not.
The beginning of the end for real innovation in curricular materials was the creation of state adoption standards, which were basically recipes cooked up in collusion with the educational materials monopolists–ones that PRECLUDED A LOT MORE THAN THEY REQUIRED. The Common [sic] Core [sic] State [sic] Standards [sic] are the reductio ad absurdum of this trend–state adoption criteria, state standards, now national standards–bullet lists that represent DRAMATIC PRIOR RESTRAINT on innovation in curricula and pedagogical approaches but that make it very easy for the big box publishers to put their $$$ into a machine for milling curricular materials to the specs (and into lobbying to ensure that the specs favor their materials).
Ah! The good old days when teachers chose – and likely bought with their own money – computer software that engaged kids instead of test prepping worksheets on the screen. My favorites, in addition to KidPix, were the Zoombinis, PrintShop, The Oregon Trail and the Amazon Trail. There were also programs based on the PBS show “Arthur” which in turn were based on the books by Marc Brown. There was one more whose title I can’t remember, but the kids could write, illustrate and print out stories in a book format.
I was teaching Spanish and English as a second language and these programs were bilingual in those languages. We made posters, signs, did vocabulary practices and presentations. Kids paired up to use the machines and work together to figure out how to use the programs and/or move to the next level. It was great fun! All gone down a sick rabbit hole of corralling kids in cubbies all day staring at a screen so that Pearson / Gates can monopolize and monetize.
If anyone missed Peter Greene’s hilarious “Why I Heart Common Core,” treat yourself and read it, here:
http://curmudgucation.blogspot.com/2014/02/why-i-heart-common-core.html
Just shared his post on data walls on FB last night. He is quickly becoming one of my favorite bloggers.
Kids differ. Standards do not.
The results of true scholarship and research and study and learning will be unique. The results specified by bullet lists of standards will not.
Yeah, Bill, we need mind manacles so that we can unleash innovation.
We’re all wise to that bit, Bill. Those are needed in order to effect the Powerpointing, the Microsofting of U.S. education.
How do you measure creativity? Ask any judge whose had to give an interpretation score at an audition or contest. It can be highly subjective, but there is such a thing as performance practice, an accepted way of performing that is adopted by a culture. Guidelines are followed in the learning process. Otherwise, learning would be a random, chaotic event. That is not to say that learning cannot take place when there is no order–yes, eventually, Jimi Hendrix would have emerged because an artist of his calibre must find his voice. However, Jimi did not appear out of a vacuum. Jimi never would have found a voice without “some” influence from his predecessors in blues. Whether he learned in a “conventional” or non-conventional way dos not negate the need for him to have learned basic skills.
One cannot break rules if the rules have not been established. Teachers need to provide a balance: opportunities to experience learning based on required elements and the environment to apply these elements in innovative ways.
LG, the standards bullet lists are not voluntary. They are not modifiable heuristics. They are enforced, invariant mandates. They make for paint-by-number curricula and teaching. Every curriculum developer in the country is now beginning every project by making a spreadsheet with the bullet list in one column and the places where the items on that list are covered in the next.
See this:
Click to access LockhartsLament.pdf
Bob, I am not arguing for the CCS[sic]S. I am just pointing out that creativity comes from breaking rules that are already established.
The author of the essay above may make a valid point that Jimi Hendrix is an example of someone who would not have emerged as an innovator from only following an inflexible set of musical standards, but Hendrix absolutely followed a tradition of established rules within the context of the culture with which he was immersed. He then went beyond them.
We cannot discount the need for basic skills/knowledge in learning. But ABSOLUTELY we must not seek to stifle a teacher’s or student’s ability to innovate and be flexible. This is why I do not even care for the wordy, inflexible and (at times) unrealistic standards for music education adopted by my state several years ago–they are an exhaustive list of tasks put forth by someone who lives in an ideal world. Instead, I prefer to utilize the nine national standards for music, a simple and elegant list that allows for the teacher to make professional decisions as to what and how exactly students learn and when.
http://musiced.nafme.org/resources/national-standards-for-music-education
Students need a context from which to learn, but the amazing part is that students can and will flourish when these boundaries are examined and students are allowed to go outside of them.
LG, you make a great point. Instead of this ridiculous bullet list of standards, we should have had a very broad, very general framework, and that should have been open to interpretation and revision.
And, Linda, the clueless amateurs who wrote the CC$$ in ELA have no notion how very much more ruich those “rules” is their bullet list. One could drive many variants of whole curricula through the lacunae in these amateurish CC$$ “standards.”
Yikes
And, Linda, the clueless amateurs who wrote the CC$$ in ELA have no notion how very much more rich and varied those “rules” are than their bullet list is. One could drive many variants of whole curricula through the lacunae in these amateurish CC$$ “standards.”
LG:
“One cannot break rules if the rules have not been established.”
This isn’t necessarily true. The context for learning and creativity doesn’t have to be a formal (or even an informal) course of study. This is especially true for popular music. The Beatles never learned the rules of music. They wouldn’t have existed without skiffle, which originated as do-it-yourself imitation folk music done by amateurs, and American R & B music, which derived from blues and gospel, also do-it-yourself genres.
Where did the Beatles pick up these influences? Not in school, and not at all formally. When they weren’t listening to American pop on European radio stations (the same stations that were playing the American blues music music favored by Van Morrison and a number of other British teenagers who later became musical innovators), they were forming their own groups and playing music whenever and wherever they could.
It was informal culture that made the British Invasion possible, not schooling of any kind, let alone a formal course of study. Ray and Dave Davies, who first learned music through family parties and singalongs, decided to start the Kinks (great innovators in rock music) after seeing an early Rolling Stones show, and of course the Stones were inspired by the blues. Few of the artists involved in this earthshaking cultural movement had any formal training. And the British Invasion paved the way for Jimi Hendrix, a self-taught guitarist who learned to play by listening to Elvis Presley and American blues. Yes, every genre has its conventions, but those conventions don’t have to be taught. They can be experienced.
You don’t have to learn formal rules in a formal setting in order to be creative. Educators should always remind themselves of this and figure out ways to bring this principle into the classroom.
“The context for learning and creativity doesn’t have to be a formal (or even an informal) course of study. ”
Nowhere did I say that it HAS to only be only through “formal” instruction for cultural learning to follow a rule. There is a structural context within any culture. For instance no one who knows anything about playing the blues can deny the I IV V structure. That progression is a rule, whether the performer uses the same label or not.
“Education then ceases to be that open-ended journey that both students and teachers might contribute to.”
This is one of the key problems with the reductive schemes being prescribed by the so-called reformers. Even such a seemingly benign formula as “learning by design” is founded on the assumption that it’s the teacher’s job is to get the student to come to a preconceived conclusion or to acquire some predetermined skill. These approaches discourage exploration and invention. And they contain the seeds of boredom.
Virtually every other sentence in the Gates article cited above is false. Examine his other op-eds, speeches, and interviews and you’ll notice the same thing. He apparently knows a lot of things about education that just aren’t true. The subtext of his comments about how the CCS will foster creativity (noticed by Linda, the first commenter above) is that creativity in teaching primarily takes the form of adopting products created by non-teachers and presumes that teachers don’t have the capacity to be creative in their own right. Is he being crazy, ignorant, deceptive, dim, or all of the above?
With respect to the main post and comments above, I think it’s worth making a slight distinction between creativity and innovation. As a working definition, we could say that creativity means the ability to make or invent something. Innovation can be viewed as a subset of creativity that encompasses either a new and effective way of achieving a desired result; a completely fresh way of looking at the familiar (a paradigm shift); or the invention of a new process, product, genre, or anything that brings about a change in the way things are done in a given field (or the invention of a brand new field).
I’ve known some extremely creative traditional teachers who weren’t necessarily innovators. Real innovation in a public school setting is difficult, but I’ve known teachers and students who have succeeded in establishing something completely new that serves the school in some way. Now more than ever, we need both innovation and traditional creativity. In order for this to happen, educators need to be able to try things that might fail. The Common Core Standards and various testing and accountability schemes leave no room for any of this, and that’s one of their main failings.
What a shame that the open-ended journey of learning is being closed off, especially for the least advantaged kids.
Sorry, this comment ended up in the wrong place. I was responding to the original post and the comments in general, not to a particular comment.
LG:
You were commenting on a post that Diane framed this way: “David Sudmeier has a different take on what standards mean in the classroom.”
This is what you said:
“One cannot break rules if the rules have not been established. Teachers need to provide a balance: opportunities to experience learning based on required elements and the environment to apply these elements in innovative ways.”
You’re implying that teachers have to establish the “required elements,” which implies that students need to be taught those elements. My point is that learning is not dependent on a set of rules or on a teacher setting up a formal structure for learning.
In practice, the sort of balance you’re proposing make a certain amount of sense, especially in a public school setting. Some kind of framework for learning is necessary, but that framework doesn’t have to be prescriptive. It can leave lots of room for the pursuit of individual interests, for collaborative exploration, and for just messing around. The original writer is arguing against Gates’s stated belief that the highly prescriptive Common Core Standards will promote creativity. He’s saying that formal standards tend to limit learning and creativity, and I agree with him. Your comment, though, sounds like a partial endorsement of something like the CCS.
I disagree with you when you say this:
“Guidelines are followed in the learning process. Otherwise, learning would be a random, chaotic event.”
To the contrary, learning without guidelines can be a rewarding organic process, which is how the various genres of rock music evolved–through individual and collective learnings that occurred with no set guidelines and depended on self-teaching, collaboration with peers, and the love of making music. It was a dynamic process whereby youth were discovering older traditions of American music on their own, not by following a set of guidelines. The same sort of learning can happen in classrooms, but not if we allow the Common Core Standards to take hold.
Another point about creativity. You don’t have to “break the rules” to be creative. Anyone who writes a song is being creative, even if it conforms to the requirements of a particular genre. It’s true that many great innovators mastered the conventional and then went on to invent something new (George Bernard Shaw, Ingmar Bergman, James Joyce). But you can be highly creative without being an innovator, and some innovators may skip the conventions and go straight to inventing something original and influential. (People like Ornette Coleman, Temple Grandin, and Nick Drake might fit into the latter category–they may be operating roughly within an overall tradition, but I don’t think their innovations depended on having mastered the standards first.)
Artistry does not exist in a vacuum. Every artist we can name has been influenced by the rules of convention, whether formally or informally. Are you implying that creative thought is re-invented every time a person is born and therefore exists organically in the mind of a person with no outside influence? That would be impossible to prove.
Again, I ask: How do you measure creativity? Perhaps, in answering, one must indulge in one’s own construct of creativity. Short answer: It depends on the judge.
LG:
“Are you implying that creative thought is re-invented every time a person is born and therefore exists organically in the mind of a person with no outside influence?”
I guess you didn’t read my other comments. My comments about the evolution of rock music had a lot to do with how musical, cultural, and technological influences and peer interaction coincided with an explosion of creativity and innovation, all without anyone providing the artists with a set of guidelines, My point was that standards, or guidelines, as you called them, aren’t necessary. Learning and great work can and does occur without such prescriptions. In the case of the British invasion that paved the way for Jimi Hendrix, the milieu made the music, almost as much as the individual artists, .
I don’t believe anything close to what you’re suggesting. The “lone genius” view of creativity and innovation doesn’t cut it any more. Shakespeare’s greatness is hard to deny, but the standard view of him as a thoroughly unique artist who towered over his peers needs to be revised. Anyone interested in Shakespeare or in the nature of creative genius might want to read Stanley Wells’s Shakespeare & Co.: Christopher Marlowe, Thomas Dekker, Ben Jonson, Thomas Middleton, John Fletcher and the Other Players in His Story.
Wells describes how the London playwrights of Shakespeare’s time collaborated, competed, mimicked and borrowed from one another, and did business together. He shows how the writing of Shakespeare’s contemporaries and his immediate predecessors deeply influenced the development of Shakespeare’s own work. (The play-going audiences and theater owners of the day had their own influence.) He also gives writers like Jonson, Marlowe, Middleton and Francis Beaumont (all of whom are generally considered far inferior to the great Bard) the credit they deserve. For crazy innovation that was way ahead of its time, see Beaumont’s play The Knight of the Burning Pestle!) http://www.shakespearesglobe.com/theatre/whats-on/sam-wanamaker-playhouse/the-knight-of-the-burning-pestle
As far as I know, their plays (most of which are now lost) were written without the aid of anyone setting down standards and guidelines. These authors appear to have learned their craft through the study of classical and contemporary models, collaboration and competition with one another, and constant practice (for pay). As such, the golden age of Early Modern drama could be viewed as a vote against such educational schemes as the Common Core Standards. The original post here was an argument against standards-based education. I tend to agree with the writer, especially when the standards are enforced by high-stakes testing. Great creative work and innovation doesn’t typically stem from a set of standards or guidelines set down by a teacher or other authority.
As for how creativity is measured, that’s not what I was talking about. It seems to me that that question changes the subject of the original post. As I said before, I don’t think you need to master the basics of a field to be an innovator in that field (see Les Paul) and you don’t have to be an innovator to be creative.
I do apologize if I had missed some of what you were saying.
“My comments about the evolution of rock music had a lot to do with how musical, cultural, and technological influences and peer interaction coincided with an explosion of creativity and innovation, all without anyone providing the artists with a set of guidelines, My point was that standards, or guidelines, as you called them, aren’t necessary.”
I don’t discount the cultural influences and peer interaction that affect creativity and innovation. In fact, these traditions are precisely what can be called the “unwritten guidelines” of a cultural practice. One need not be versed in formal training in order to be influenced by the order of convention. Again, I present to you the basic harmonic chord progression that is the backbone of the blues (and most of Western music, for that matter up until recently): I IV V. The natural laws of the division of the pitch fundamental follow the same progression as these chords. There is no denying that laws, convention, guidelines or whatever one calls them exist and that artists are exposed to them whether formally or informally.
“Learning and great work can and does occur without such prescriptions. In the case of the British invasion that paved the way for Jimi Hendrix, the milieu made the music, almost as much as the individual artists, .
“I don’t believe anything close to what you’re suggesting. The ‘lone genius’ view of creativity and innovation doesn’t cut it any more.”
I am not suggesting that view at all. I was trying to infer as to whether or not you were.
“Shakespeare’s greatness is hard to deny, but the standard view of him as a thoroughly unique artist who towered over his peers needs to be revised.”
Agreed. The influence of others creates an environment ripe for the re-invention of the cultural standards. I do not think that you and I are far off in our beliefs. I truly think this is a matter of semantics, but you are welcome to disagree about that.
LG:
No apologies needed. But the fact that genres are defined by particular characteristics is sort of obvious and is unrelated to my points that 1) Creativity happens all the time within formal constraints, so that no breaking of rules is required for creativity, 2) Innovation can be defined as creativity that introduces something new [often something that works well and may be adopted by others–note that not all innovations are good and can actually do harm to many, eg. co-location of charter schools in public schools and credit default swaps], and 3) standards-based education and teacher-supplied guidelines are not required for students to do creative work and can easily stifle creativity and limit learning.
I know you don’t believe in the “lone genius” view. I was agreeing with you. Where we appear to disagree is on items #1 and #3. I’m not against guidelines per se, but in my teaching, I liked to use a lot of inductive methods. If guidelines are desirable, it can be a good idea to let the kids derive their own through direct experience. This is the sort of teaching method that the Common Core materials tend to discourage.
A related problem is that the Common Core ELA standards are skewed toward verbal analysis tasks and thus conform to a limited understanding of the nature of “knowledge work.” This automatically limits the possibilities for the divergent thinking, the tinkering, and the making of things that creativity entails.
LG:
Another possible area of disagreement… I believe people can be creative and make innovations without knowing all the basics of the arena they’re operating in. Les Paul is a perfect example. (There’s a problem, of course, when supposedly great innovations are put in place through coercion and bribery, e.g., “school reform.”)
This isn’t to say that study and experience don’t aid in creativity. They obviously do. Mastery normally requires years of study and practice (practice being more important). But study and experience aren’t essential for creativity–young children carry out their bright ideas all the time, if allowed. Many so-called naive, primitive, and outsider artists have created works of genius without any training at all.
For example, LG, the “rules” for Hindu classical ragas differ dramatically from the “rules” for traditional Western music.
Yes. Yet there are still “rules” passed on through tradition. This is my point. Mostly every aspect of culture follows a certain convention. The innovators do not just appear on the scene with absolutely no knowledge of convention. Some may learn it through formal instruction, some may learn it informally. Informal learning does not negate convention.
The argument that certain pop, rock and jazz musicians never followed rules is absurd! Most of the music the Beatles released in their early years was blues-based. Blues is steeped in conventional structures that need not be formally taught, but are inherent in the culture. Rules, conventions, structures…whatever you want you call them…exist to provide context. The innovators bend them, break them and thus create new conventions.
LG:
Did anybody say that those artists “never followed rules?” Whatever that case, creativity doesn’t require the breaking of rules.
Randal, you seem to find a distinction between innovation and creativity.
From my experience, creativity requires an understanding of conventions or rules. Breaking the rules is one aspect of creativity, but not the only. Are we arguing semantics?
LG:
“Randal, you seem to find a distinction between innovation and creativity.”
Yes. This is what I wrote in another comment:
–With respect to the main post and comments above, I think it’s worth making a slight distinction between creativity and innovation. As a working definition, we could say that creativity means the ability to make or invent something. Innovation can be viewed as a subset of creativity that encompasses either a new and effective way of achieving a desired result; a completely fresh way of looking at the familiar (a paradigm shift); or the invention of a new process, product, genre, or anything that brings about a change in the way things are done in a given field (or the invention of a brand new field).–
Take two brilliant guitarists: Leo Kottke and Les Paul. It’s hard to argue that Leo Kottke isn’t a creative genius. He’s a virtuoso of the acoustic guitar whose playing style has evolved over the years. I’m not an expert on Kottke, so may be I’m wrong, but my impression is that his creativity doesn’t lie in breaking rules. It lies in his musicianship, songwriting, interpretative skills, the development of his personal styles, his technical choices, his adaptation to physical limitations, and so on. I don’t get the impression that he created new ways of doing things with the guitar, but that doesn’t prevent him from being a creative genius. Creative work that conforms to a particular genre or lies within a particular tradition is still creative work. It doesn’t have to break any boundaries. (In fact, some writers contend that various types of constraints actually foster creativity, which is something we can probably agree on.)
Les Paul, by contrast, is known as a great innovator in the fields of guitar playing, guitar building, and sound recording. Again, I’m not an expert, and I don’t know if his innovations in guitar playing came after he mastered the instrument, or whether he incorporated new techniques as he was still learning it. And it isn’t clear to me whether he was breaking rules or just inventing things, adding onto what he learned from his role models. As an innovator in guitar building and sound recording, it’s pretty clear that he did not master those fields before coming up with his inventions. He was a purposeful tinkerer. For example, he developed the “sound on sound” recording method by messing around with tape recorders, not by learning engineering. He developed his solid body electric guitar and patented pickups by building a series of prototypes. He didn’t want or need to master a set body of knowledge to accomplish what he did, he built his own knowledge as he went.
None of the accomplishments of these two men derived from anything resembling standards-based education, or teacher-imposed guidelines. In the case of Les Paul, his greatest innovations were the results of invention rather than breaking rules that had been mastered beforehand. The sort of tinkering and prototyping and discovery that led to Paul’s many accomplishments should have a big role in today’s schools (see the work of Gary Stager: http://stager.org/ ). Kids should be given a chance to build their own knowledge, but standards-based schemes such as the Common Core Standards discourage this.
For more about the value of letting kids mess around with technology, see the work of Mimi Ito:
http://www.amazon.com/Hanging-Out-Messing-Around-Geeking/dp/0262518546/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1393862519&sr=1-1
I fully understand your thoughts on the difference between creativity and innovation. You certainly make a solid argument for defining innovation as a kind of creativity that results in something new. In this way, your premise is quite tidy. My original point was not necessarily to discriminate between the two terms, but perhaps I carelessly interchanged them for sake of the simplicity of a term that is all-encompassing.
It may be necessary to pin down a way of defining creativity in order to make this distinction. This begs the question…what does it mean to be creative? You say:
“As a working definition, we could say that creativity means the ability to make or invent something.”
There are some who feel creativity is the result of divergent thinking, not necessarily a product or invention, although inventive thinking is certainly creative by this definition. I suppose I always defined creativity in terms of taking what one knows and changing it in a way that had not yet been done before, hence my connecting “creativity” with “innovation.” However, this “new thinking” may be a new idea to the thinker himself, but not necessarily a new idea to all thinkers.
You say: “”Innovation can be viewed as a subset of creativity that encompasses either a new and effective way of achieving a desired result; a completely fresh way of looking at the familiar (a paradigm shift); or the invention of a new process, product, genre, or anything that brings about a change in the way things are done in a given field (or the invention of a brand new field).–”
It appears your definition of “innovation” is culture-dependent–in order for a thought or action to be innovative, it must be different from the cultural convention that is already in place and accepted. An individual can be creative and innovative to oneself without knowing whether or not someone else has already reached the same result as he has. In order to be innovative, the individual must have personally engineered a result that did not exist in the cultural mind-set before.
In the light of your commentary, one can certainly make the case that innovation cannot divorce itself from creativity, as innovation is a kind of creativity, but creativity can exist apart from innovation. For example, when a student sees something unexpected in the lesson or takes learning to an open end, the student is engaging in a creative act that may not necessarily be new to our culture. Therefore creativity as divergent thought can exist but need not be innovative.
Randal, you say that it is not necessary for rules to be known or followed even sub-consciously for innovation to take place.
My original commentary was built on the idea that a set of formal or informal rules or practices may be considered convention–or tradition, if you like–and convention is inherent in a culture at any given moment. (Convention is also subject to change as the culture changes and morphs with the needs and wants of the society in which the convention is accepted and put into use.)
If one accepts that convention is based on a set of rules or practices, is it safe to say that “invention” can be defined by “convention” by virtue of being its opposite not unlike “good” can be framed in the context of “evil?”
If so, one could say that invention could be a the result of a response to conventional thinking. One cannot exist without the other, i.e. invention cannot exist without rules. Now whether or not the individual knows these rules or practices before-hand is the crux of our disagreement.
It is difficult to believe that an innovator is not exposed to the conventions of the time. Les Paul knew the limitations of the recording, whether or not he had a technical working knowledge of engineering or not. He imagined a way to recreate a sound of multiple musicians when there were only two. This idea was dependent on the current convention that recordings were simple memorialized facsimiles of live performances. No one had recorded new parts along with a previously recorded performance, yet these defined roles have always existed in music. As well, recordings had to be in place before Paul could even ponder the dilemma. Loosely, the recording of live performances and/or the existence of multiple parts in live performances would be the “rule” or convention, and multi-tracking would be the innovation. The technical aspects, though important, would not enter into the argument for innovation following convention. He changed the rules by inventing both a new way of following them and a new result that did not follow conventional practices.
If we describe innovation is an act of invention or making something new outside of conventional practice, then innovation is somewhat dependent on convention, AKA knowing the rules (conventions) well enough to break them (or re-make them).
I am enjoying this discussion.
The thing that we should never forget about “the rules” is that they are some heuristics that some folks made up. If they’ve been around for some time, there’s probably a reason for that. But unless we’re talking about laws of nature, the rules are not mandatory and universal. The problem with ed deform is that very small-minded, unimaginative people think that they can articulate the rules for all of us. We need to get these people the hell out of our classrooms.
“It was I when I found out I could make mistakes that I knew I was on to something.”
– Ornette Coleman
I’ve read that Ornette Coleman was a jazz innovator partly because he did NOT know the rules. It was said that he didn’t really understand chords, which is why his music is so out of the ordinary.
Well, he played in touring R & B bands for years before going to Los Angeles, where he broke out professionally. He supposedly studied theory on his own while working as an elevator operator.
There’s the famous story of his being beaten up after taking is music outside during an R & B gig, his sax destroyed, but I think that’s because he was playing what he heard in his head, not that he couldn’t play conventional chord structures and harmony.
In any case, a genius and American original…
Michael Fiorillo:
Thanks for the info and clarification. I’ve never been a huge fan of Coleman or Eric Dolphy. I should probably dig a little deeper into their music.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_variant
The point of this Chess Variant post is that for MANY of these variations, one would not have to learn the rules of standard chess first in order then to break them. For many of these games, a beginner would simply have to learn the rules for the variant. In ELA, once one gets past elementary decoding skills, there are many, many possible approaches in all the domains–reading literature, writing, speaking, listening, thinking. We certainly don’t need a rank amateur like David Coleman telling everyone what learning progression he or she has to follow and what outcomes, at each grade level, are desirable and how those outcomes should be characterized. IT’S OBSCENE TO ALLOW THIS!!!!
Imagine this: You convene a group of linguists with expertise in child language acquisition. You tell them, we want you to forget about anything that’s ever been done in English language arts curricula. We want you to envision, from scratch, a curriculum that will help every kid to develop a large vocabulary, syntactic fluency, a love of language, sensitivity to the expressive possibilities of language, a command of style, and some basic understanding of how languages work. We want you to make use of everything you know, scientifically, about language acquisition.
Do you think that what they would produce would look ANYTHING like the drek produced for the Language strand of the CC$$ by the Achieve bobblehead Lord Coleman?
NOT A CHANCE.
Now imagine that we did this not with one but with sixteen different groups of linguists. Do you think that their products would look the same?
AGAIN, NOT A CHANCE.
And the same goes for every other domain of the CC$$ in ELA.
My addition. As Music Coordinator for our town we implemented the Kodaly philosophy of music wherein music became an academic subject. Children learned to read and write music, to inner hear etc. But the biggest goal was to learn to LOVE music and to educate, educate in its best sense. I once had a student tell me that he did better in every subject because of me – and my music methodology.
With imposed standards this could not have been done. Politicians imposing THEIR standards would not have allowed the creativity done by our teachers. We wrote our own textbooks which would have never worked for anyone else. They would not have known how to use them and it would have been counterproductive for them to try without knowing how to use the information on the printed page.
We had teachers from all over Northern Illinois and Indiana visit our schools to see our teachers teach and many left with mouths wide open at the skills of our students.
It was extremely difficult work. Our teachers came in after a hard day of work once a week and we had books coming from all over Indiana from which to glean the folk material necessary for the Kodaly philosophy. We were so VERY fortunate to obtain a teacher who had spent a year in Hungary studying the philosophy and who led the way in developing the curriculum. Teachers shared ideas and inspiration. Etc etc. After I was removed as Music Coordinator, EVERY music teacher in our school system left the very next year except myself and one other teacher.
The high school choral program went from 5 or 6 sections to two in the same year as when I was removed and the band program went from around 120 students to 20 in a few short years when the expertise of those teachers was lost.
So much for innovation by teachers and local administrators.
This is awesome, Gordon!
“It was extremely difficult work. Our teachers came in after a hard day of work once a week and we had books coming from all over Indiana from which to glean the folk material necessary for the Kodaly philosophy. We were so VERY fortunate to obtain a teacher who had spent a year in Hungary studying the philosophy and who led the way in developing the curriculum. Teachers shared ideas and inspiration.”
This is how it should always be: sharing ideas and inspiration. Currently, myself and another colleague are revamping the middle school vocal music curriculum to “conform” to a scheduling concept for next year where the band and vocal teachers will co-teach, a daunting task since it’s never been done before in our district. Unfortunately, we do not have the input of the vocal music teachers as one is not interested in developing this curriculum and the other passed away four weeks ago (no one has yet been permanently hired for this position). We need to keep in mind the freedoms to be flexible while still following the curriculum framework that is already in place without the aid of the teachers who will be teaching it. There is no such co-teaching animal in music at the elementary level.
A good teacher is like a conductor – or a director – and the best lessons are like performance art: The teacher introduces the content, “reads” the room, – and invites students with their highly individual experiences of life to contribute to the learning that’s going on – and – embraces the diverse responses, and because we’re working with human beings – what we find out today, is most likely going to evolve into tomorrow’s lesson. Each day is different, and each student learns differently at a different pace.
It is interesting that one of the architects of the ‘reform’, Bill Gates, is included on the list highly functioning adults with Asperger’s syndrome. Traditionally, two of the characteristics of this syndrome is difficulty with social skills (an inability to “read the room”), and a dislike of routine interruptions. No wonder “standards” and “data” are the centerpieces of the Gates’ approach. (Can this person even understand the “greys” and ambiguity in life? )
The “reform’s” values of uniformity and data are diametrically opposed to the inexact, risky, spontaneous and highly social art of teaching.
So, Bill Gates has finally become a comic book villain. Creativity from conformity? C’mon, Bill. Put down the standarizationator, go back to the drawing board, and at least design something interesting. We’ve already seen this episode before…
Indeed. Been there, done that.
It’s my impression that music schools today are extremely conservative, conventional, drill-and-kill, and canon-obsessed. And I have a hard time believing they were less so 50 years ago. I’m thinking of Julliard, not Jimi Hendrix.
At school my youngest so plays what he calls “boring” music on a standardly tuned violin. At home he tunes his fiddle like a dead man for Bonaparte’s Retreat and Wagon Wheel.
🙂
ay ay ay cantar y no llores