Alfie Kohn has a terrific article in Education Week with the title above. It is behind a pay wall and I can’t repost it in full, lest I get an angry scolding from Edweek.
But here are a few good excerpts:
“It pains me to say this, but professionals in our field often seem content to work within the constraints of traditional policies and accepted assumptions-even when they don’t make sense. Conversely, too many educators seem to have lost their capacity to be outraged by outrageous things. Handed foolish and destructive mandates, they respond only by requesting guidance on how to implement them.”
And, what do courageous educators do?
“Digging deeper. It requires gumption to follow one’s principles wherever they lead. One may hope, for example, that children will be lifelong learners. But what if evidence and experience tell us that interest in learning declines when students are graded and made to work on academic assignments at home? Are we willing to question any traditional practices-including grades and homework-that interfere with important goals?”
And:
“Even when practices seem to be producing good results, a courageous educator questions the criteria: “Wait a minute-we say this policy ‘works,’ but doesn’t that just mean it raises scores on bad tests?” “My classroom may be quiet and orderly, but am I promoting intellectual and moral development, or merely compliance?” “Aren’t our graduates getting into prestigious colleges mostly because they’re from affluent families? Are we helping them become deep and passionate thinkers?””
There’s much more, but you will have to dig deeper to find it.

Very nice guy, one of the only ones who has actually responded to me when I’ve written to him about my Great Books program. But some of his ideas are a tad annoying.
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And which “ideas are a tad annoying?
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Yes, such as?
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http://www.alfiekohn.org/
you can get his speaking schedule here
Also, read his review on “Notes” talking about the N Y Times articles
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“But what if evidence and experience tell us that interest in learning declines when students are graded and made to work on academic assignments at home? Are we willing to question any traditional practices-including grades and homework-that interfere with important goals?”
Well, with the grading aspect most aren’t willing to question it. Grading is so ingrained in our culture that it is blasphemous to challenge that educational malpractice even given its inherent illogicalness, its invalidity and its unjustness.
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Even designing a grading system that is based on learning, not homework completion is blasphemous.
And don’t even think about suspending that grading judgment until the end of the course, when the students have had as many opportunities as possible to demonstrate their learning.
Parents want current, updated grade status on their phones 24/7 way more than they want their kids to actually learn, in my experience.
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It used to be Santa Claus was the ultimate panopticon, you know with “. . . he sees you in the morning, he knows when you’re awake, he knows if you’ve been bad or good. . . ” Seems rather quaint and benign in comparison to the panopticon that are the modern computerized grade books that we use.
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And it’s not just the grades that are viewable, tardies, write-ups etc. . . .
I used to prefer to take my discipline at school because I knew it’d be worse at home
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B-b-b-but if we don’t have grades, what *else* could I possibly brag, er, talk about at parent cocktail parties?
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LOL!
Or what kind of bumper sticker would my beeemer have?
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Perhaps we should just give every new born a high school diploma. We would need no longer worry about high school graduation rates. Perhaps we should even extended it to post secondary education. Everyone a physician before the age of five.
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Or a teaching economist.
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That is another possibility, a Ph.D. Rather than an M.D.
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I just retweeted the Alfie Kohn article. Worth reading the entire article.
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Gotta love Alfie! Great post. Thank you, Diane.
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Diane Ravitch now endorses Alfie Kohn. This really says it all.
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And based on her publishing his thoughts on grades and grading it appears she, too, is against grades: “Are we willing to question any traditional practices-including grades and homework-that interfere with important goals?” If Diane did not endorse such a notion, why would she publish it on her blog?
Hate to say it but this is yet another reason Diane gets ignored. Alfie Kohn, Monty Neill at FairTest, Anthony Cody, Paul Thomas, Nancy Flanagan, Valerie Strauss; they all sing the same siren songs but they’re still being ignored. After awhile you’d think one of them would have to wonder why.
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Who are you to say they are being ignored?
Who made YOU the decider?
Diane publishes opposing views on her blog all the time.
Who’s Paul Hoss anyway?
Starting now you’re being ignored.
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Linda: since “choice” is sacred, and you’ve made yours—
When we meet up with Socrates, Ang and Duane Swacker at Pink Slip Bar, let’s knock back a few in celebration of making wise choices.
“Ignoring an aggravation a day makes the pain go away.”
Well, not really, but it does help lower one’s blood pressure…
And it leaves you more time to make other comments.
Keep posting. I’ll keep reading.
🙂
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“this is yet another reason Diane gets ignored”
I see this comment a lot. Who’s ignoring her? Obviously not any of the people talking about her. But who’s doing the ignoring? Genuinely curious what you mean.
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He’s just a holier than thou shill for corporate “reform” who pretends to be an open-minded free thinker when nothing could be further from the truth.
Yes, he is well-deserving of planned ignoring, aka “extinction” in Behavioral terms.
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Diane often posts things that she does not agree with, so don’t make assumptions about her positions. I asked her to share this post with us because I thought it looked relevant but I could not read it behind the paywall.
The shield concealing your personal biases has worn thin. You are a closed minded-corporate “reformer” who supports the standardized testing mania.
I believe in qualitative measures and the professional opinions of teachers. And I think that Alfie Kohn rocks!
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This is the quantitative assessment lover we are dealing with, folks:
“2. Investing in assessments that focus on higher order thinking skills (critical thinking and problem solving) is a waste of time and money. The NEA and the people from Fair Test, the progressives, will defend these assessments unconditionally, but we need to take a long hard look at anything in this direction before we commit to thinking portfolios, projects, and reports, are going to give us the quantitative answers to how our students are actually performing before we make the leap in this direction. These authentic assessments are code for avoiding valid and reliable accountability measures. Take proven systems of assessment that correlate to standards with a track record for producing quality results such as the MCAS test from Massachusetts or the federal NAEP test and plug them in nationwide.
Paul Hoss
Marshfield, Massachusetts
Posted by: phoss1 | February 11, 2010 11:48 AM”
From the Washington Post Answer Sheet http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/education-secretary-duncan/how-to-fix-a-bad-education-law.html
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Critical thinking and problem solving….a waste? And he was a teacher? Yikes!
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CT…check email. I may have ended up in spam or junk mail. It is about Diane’s book.
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Linda, Yup, apparently just low level thinking and bubble tests to measure them matter. Henceforth I will ignore…
And thanks for the heads up. I just found and replied.
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KTA and Linda,
Yes, lets drink to wise choices.
But Lordy , it is difficult, isn’t it?
Krazy, your recent postings remind me of the stories the elders tell. Those who were really there during the civil rights maches. (Living in the south, we have the privilege of speaking to the regular folks who were there)
They often mention that before every march, the leaders would say ” if you are too angry today, we understand, but go back in the church ( or other origin of the protest), because we need you to be calm out here”.
Some days I guess I need to go back in the church.
I am just so darn angry about what is happening to my students, my community and my country.
Thank you for reminding us to keep calm and our eyes on the prize.
See you at the bar!
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Linda and Flerp,
I don’t want Diane to be ignored. I’d like to see her message get across because she raises some very salient points regarding education reform. I whole heartedly agree with Diane on universal/free preschool and kindergarten for all, smaller and reasonable class sizes, free lunch for all, and others. However, when she goes overboard enabling.endorsing extremist such as Kohn, FairTest, et al, the educational establishment, including state and federal lawmakers, have no choice but to roll their collective eyes and ignore her message(s).
As for me being ignored, that’s not a big deal because I’m a nonentity in the scheme of the education reform debate, but Diane is far from that. As well, it appears as though a half dozen or so responders here were quick not to ignore my comment.
And I’m not a corporate reformer. Most of the reforms I’ve believed in long before they were realized, in fact many of them I endorsed while still teaching in letters to the editor in the Boston Globe, the New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, and the Denver Post. I am a proud advocate for choice, accountability, and closing/restructuring chronically under performing schools. I believe in testing, even though it needs to be cut back from its present state. I believe strongly in each of these reforms and no one is paying me for any of it. I have 35 years experience as a Massachusetts public school teacher and graduate degrees from Columbia University Teachers College and Harvard Graduate School of Education on which I base my views. And yes, prior to education reforms our schools were in desperate need of change. As well I don’t feel as though I need to apologize for any of my views.
Again, Diane’s messages would have a much better chance of being received and not ignored if presented in a more favorable, well thought out manner.
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Yes, it says that she cares enough about education to listen to what research actually has to say. Please provide me research in support of the things Kohn opposes – grades, homework, competition, standardized testing, etc. Please show how those things make kids better students, better learners and/or better people.
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I have to say that I often use homework to further educate my students, use concern about grades as a means to educate my students. How do you educate your students?
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I would expect nothing more from someone who teaches college –and who has never been formally trained as an educator. We are talking about P-12 education.
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“…use concern about grades as a means to educate my students….”
How does concern about grades “educate” your students? You mean they’re only interested in your class because of the grade and that’s why they “learn”? How long do you think they retain what they “learn” if that’s their only motivation? What if your students were motivated to learn your subject because of their own interest? Because they see the relevance to their own lives or because they find the subject challenging in an engaging, rather than off-putting way?
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@cosmic,
I think college freshman have much more in common with high school juniors than preschool students, don’t you? I have never understood why experience teaching early elementary is taken here as giving important insight into high school education.
@Dienne,
Grades will motivate some students and provide importent feedback to others about their effort level or study techniques. Don’t you find grades to motivate some of your students?
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College students are adults and they should be treated as adults, not like “13th graders,” if you want them to behave as responsible adults. Unlike children, adult students spend much more time outside of the classroom than within it, so their homework is not a whole “second shift” of schooling like it is for P-12 students.
Don’t assume that people who are trained in education have learned only about certain ages of learners. I studied birth through adulthood.
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Actually college students are not adults, either legally or physiologically.
It is interesting that you want college students to be treated as adults while my instruction is going more in the other direction. Old school folks have no graded homework, a midterm and a final. I am increasing the scaffolding of my classes with more frequent, lower stakes tests and increasing the scaffolding of the free response questions that I write. I require weekly homework to encourage my students to structure their learning in a reasonable way, and send them emails when I notice that things are not going well (I just sent out a group of 36 emails to the fraction of my students who did poorly on the first exam, copies of the emails also went to their academic advisors).
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College is schooling for adults, not children. 18 year olds are legally adults where I live and that is the age of majority in most states as well: http://contests.about.com/od/sweepstakes101/a/agemajoristate.htm
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By “old school” you might mean older people in your department, but basing final grades on just mid-term and final exams is not what my college education was like, at four different schools, and that’s never been how I teach.
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Not really a matter of age, but view of education. One midterm and one final was very common when I was in college, and certainly that was the norm in graduate school. It is still the norm in most graduate in my department at least.
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Then it’s good that you’ve broken away from that model.
I did not see that in any of my four degree programs. Even at one large state university where we had huge lecture halls with hundreds of students, students were expected to write papers for the associated seminars, so grades were never just based solely on a mid-term and final. And this was not just in Education courses. It was the same in my many Arts & Sciences classes.
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I obviously think it is better as well, but my basic point is that these changes increase my ability to structure my student’s time and effort, giving them less freedom to structure their own time. In many ways I am treating them less like adults than the old system of a midterm and a final treated them.
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Requiring that students submit course work, instead of just completing two exams, is not structuring their time for them. Students are being required to manage their own time, in order to meet deadlines throughout the course, as well as fulfill the requirements of the assignments. That’s a lot more student responsibility than merely taking two tests.
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I agree that there is more to student responsibility than taking two exams. There is having the discipline to learn the material, to practice using the material, week after week, even though there is not an exam for another month or two. I no longer believe that the majority of my students are mature enough to do that, so they have graded homework every week, a test (you can call it a quiz if you want), every other week. I am not allowing them to manage their time. I am designing my class so that I manage that for them.
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You give yourself more credit than you deserve for time management. As with most jobs, there are deadlines when work must be completed and workers are responsible for managing their time effectively in order to meet those deadlines, not the manager or customers who set the deadlines.
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Don’t get me wrong; I don’t claim to be successful at causing my students to change their behavior. Many have practiced being poor students for a very long time. I create artificial deadlines so they can practice what it takes to meet deadlines when their jobs, or perhaps others lives depend on it.
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I’m not going to get into your characterization of students as having “practiced being poor students for a very long time,” because I think much of we see in young college students today are ramifications of NCLB and RttT. Whatever your motives, involving students more actively in their learning is just better pedagogy/andragogy than merely giving reading assignments, lectures and two tests.
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Perhaps we could get back to the central point of your original point that 18 year olds are so different from 17 year olds that experience teaching 18 year olds and the system we have for educating 18 year olds has little relevance to teaching 17 year old students.
I argued in a post that 18 year olds are are not physiologically or legally full adults. Is there a counterargument that they are?
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No, already addressed that and not interested in arguing. They are legally adults in virtually every state and they are attending school for adults.
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I do not agree that this important question is settled. I take your position to be that institutional structures and practices used in higher education (having students choose schools, having public money go to private colleges and universities, peer evaluation of faculty, etc) have no relevance to high schools because the majority of students in high school are under the age of 18 and the majority of students in college are over the age of 18. Is this correct?
If I have accurately summarized your argument, it seems to me to be a weak one and entirely dependent on some relatively arbitrary political decisions. Children begin gathering the rights of adults at 14, when they can legally work, drive, and until recently in my state, marry with parental permission. They acquire full legal rights at 21. The timing of the acquisition of these rights seems somewhat arbitrary and a dangerous foundation to depend on for arguing your position. Which right acquired at 18 do you believe to be crucial? If the legislature changed the timing of that right, would it suddenly mean the institutional structures and practices in higher education have become relevant to k-12 education?
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You confuse age of minority, age of license and age of majority. In most other countries, 18 is the age of majority as well: http://www.youthrights.net/index.php?title=Age_of_majority
I do not have different rules for students who are 18 years olds and those who are 25, 40 or 60, etc. I do, however, attempt to address the needs of students on a case by case basis, but this tends to have more to do with individual differences and needs than age.
I think you do your students a disservice if you ignore the fact that they are legally adults and legally responsible for their actions. Treat college students like kids and they will act like kids. Treat them like adults and they will learn to behave as adults. That was what my personal experiences in college were like as an 18 year old and I rose to the occasion. I have seen many other students do so as well.
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I’ve read two of Kohn’s books, and at least a dozen of his articles. Lots and lots of generalities, airy thoughts, and progressive platitudes. But what exactly does he want kids to know about in context, and to be able to do? Evolution? Addition? Bill of Rights? Photosynthesis? Women’s suffrage? Almost all plural nouns end in s? Pearl Harbor? September 11? I Have A dream? Sentence and paragraph structure? etc., etc. Kohn never says anywhere what he wants schools specifically to accomplish.
Memorization of disconnected or trivial facts is of course pointless. But critical thinking depends on having a significant knowledge base to draw on, and critical thinking ability is very domain-specific.
Kohn opposes AP, IB, and other courses for motivated, advanced learners. I dare any high school with such courses to eliminate them. 99+% of high schools would have a parent revolt like you’ve never seen before, and any parents with money would leave those schools pronto. Kohn sounds wonderful to many dreamy ed. school graduates, but in reality he’s an enemy of public schools.
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I’ve read nearly everything Kohn has written and I don’t remember him being opposed to either AP or IB. I’m sure he’s opposed to universal IB or forcing kids into AP who aren’t ready/interested just to jack up “good” numbers for the school. But Kohn is all about intrinsic motivation and there are plenty of students motivated for AP and IB classes. Please find me specifically where he says that he’s opposed to all AP, IB or other advanced classes.
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Here’s a connection to a blog post that makes Alfie’s comments relevant and of immediate concern:
http://bgfay750.blogspot.com/2013/09/lies-damned-lies-and-appr-ratings.html?spref=fb
(Disclaimer: I have no direct connection to this blog. Just find it interesting)
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So sad. That is likely to occur even more under standardized education, because there are no exceptions, so even in those kinds of situations, education cannot really be personalized.
Heaping dedicated teachers like this upon the waste pile, due to a flawed formula intended to be applicable in all cases, is a terrible tragedy concocted by people who know very little, if anything, about real live students, teachers and education –and who don’t seem to care either. What a huge loss.
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Alfie is the king. He has made me rethink everything I do with
and everything I say to children.
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Over the years, there has been an assumotion, in middle America, at least, that elementary teachers “just” teach “the basics” and that, since they aren’t subject specific, they are less informed than secondary teachers. When I got my masters I was asked if I niw knew enough to teach high school, for example. And, there has been a disconnect among the curricula of elementary and secondary teaching demands and job difficukty.
These attitudes have changed drastically in the last 15- 20 years. However, as many objectives are found to need roots in the elementary grades, teachers have had to educate themselves beyond being “generalists” as the content has shifted downward.
My point: there needs to be a call for more intensive one-on-one attention to students as the receive their foundational education. Smaller class sizes need to be one focus in order for this to occur. Once students have a very strong foundation, the teachers in upper grade levels would be able to truly impart more content to the students.
For years, secondary teachers have complained that it isn’t “their job” to teach basic s to students who are poor readers and lacking mathematical skills. This is why the focus of much of the CC seems to be upon informational text in elementary grades, in order to teach kids how to read the kinds of things that they will be prepared to tackle in the content areas. While reading for enjoyment is also necessary, we are finally beginning to delve into how to read textbooks and current events with young children in a more direct fashion. I don’t disagree with this change.
In any case, we need to consider how to better prepare young students to succeed. It can’t be accomplished with a huge class of children who have nutritional, sleep, personal, or learning deficits from the day they are born. Can we reach everyone? No. NCLB’s mandate for proficiency for all was never achievable. It won’t be with any “reform” that fails to address the fact that ALL stdents from ALL backgrounds and economic levels can benefit from investing in SMALL classes. The issue has always been “money”. Currently, it seems that the preference is to invest in computer technology and TFA to avoid paying professional educators a living wage.
I am wondering why there can’t be advocacy for specifically addressing the real needs instead of focusing on gutting education in America. Why can there be an OUTCRY for smaller classes? Why can’t this society invest as much money into excellent education as it wastes on war?
This society is currently focused so much on hatred, suspicion, and spreading lies to protect the money of the few that they fail to realize that education is the basis for the future of the middle class which has been the backbone of America prior to the lie of “trickle down” that turned on he thinking caps of those who want power and conntrol. They seized the opportunity to defund society and they continue to get followers by claiming that anyone who isn’t a free market capitalist without conscience is un-American and a “socialist” by their uninformed definitions.
The education community needs to lead, not follow society, back to the ideas that will include appropriate learning environments for ALL students, not just for the few, and not forcing the same expectations on every student.
The problem with erasing individuality is that it erases creativity and innovation. Pushing the same expectations on everyone is counter-productive to the future of this nation.
So, thank you Diane Ravitch for seeing the light and spreading the word. I hope many people are going to listen and stand up for ALL kids, not just for their own.
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