This is a story written by a mother who enrolled her son in Democracy Prep in Harlem. She is a Nigerian-born journalist. She contends that the school’s rigid discipline was excessive and that her son spent hours every day in detention.
It is a harrowing story. No doubt, Democracy Prep has another version. I welcome its response to this article. I will post it.
She writes:
“On my first visit to observe class I was struck by the robotic and monotonous style of teaching whereby teachers are programmed to literally clock every second of the class through a count down, while simultaneously monitoring every movement and body language of the young students.
“The students are supposed to respond in non-verbal coded signals called : spirit fingers – a twirling of all ten fingers in the direction of the scholar being supported – means a ‘show of support,’ brain match – is the simultaneous waving of the thumb and the pinkie – it means ‘I agree with you,’ track your speaker means ‘focusing on who’s speaking,’ pound it out – a chorus of pounding on the desks – means ‘the question is answered correctly’; and so on.
“So now I understand fully well why my 12 year old who is very creative and loves to be in motion would feel like he’s in prison; having to endure ten hours of monotonous class sessions daily without any sports activities or recess. Scholars have to eat their lunch in their respective classroom/homeroom and are only given fifteen to twenty minutes.”
And more:
“The endless list of reasons for which students can get railroaded into detention and ultimately suspension include: “not spontaneous on queue,” “clapping three times instead of twice as prompted,” “slouching over the desk,” “looking back at another student,” “talking,” “mumbling to yourself,” “fake coughing or sneezing,” “asking to go to the rest room,” “raising your hands too long,” “clearing your throat” or “breathing too hard.”
“I found this preposterous.
“So the process of suspension usually starts as follows. A teacher would declare “that’s one,” meaning a deduction, then if a student interjects “what did I do,”? The teacher would respond: “that’s two.”
“The third deduction automatically sends a student to “COLUMBIA,” the detention room managed by two African-America male coaches.
“All the Advisory/home rooms are named after a University. My son is in UCONN. I’m not sure why the detention room is called COLUMBIA. And by the way all the teachers at this charter school are white and from out of state. The school’s administrators did manage to get two coaches that are African-American from the New York City area. They are the two in charge of the detention room.”
Read the article and think about this:
The US Department of Education was so impressed by Democracy Prep that it have the charter chain $9.1 million to expand.
Question: With measures that demand total compliance, is Democracy Prep educating for democracy?

Training for the proles. Education for the children of the elite.
Sit up. Roll over. Good boy.
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The proles don’t read 1984 anymore. I have to wonder if the elite read it in order to be better Big Brothers.
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No, they don’t have to read it, they are living it!
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Maybe if enough people read it, we could stop living it.
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This is not the first horror story I have heard about. And yet, the charters are lauded and parents continue to flock to them. I have yet to figure this out.
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Longer school day, longer school year, uniforms, fewer behavior problems. Suburban parents would love these things for their kids, too.
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If you don’t mind public humiliation and years of therapy for anger management issues.
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Then why aren’t these prisons popping up in the suburbs? Why isn’t someone filling this demand?
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“not spontaneous on queue”
I’m sorry, I know it’s not funny, but I laughed out loud at that. OMG!
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That is an oxymoron.
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I know, that’s why it’s so hilarious in a not-funny kind of way. Sort of like “the floggings will continue until morale improves”.
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““So the process of suspension usually starts as follows. A teacher would declare “that’s one,” meaning a deduction, then if a student interjects “what did I do,”? The teacher would respond: “that’s two.””
And again, I know I shouldn’t be cracking jokes, but this is just so absurd, I can’t help myself.
An elderly couple was being interviewed for a human interest story on the news for their 70th anniversary. The reporter asked them the inevitable question about the secret of their longevity. The husband spoke up, “Well, you see, for our honeymoon, we went to the Grand Canyon and we took those mules down the trail. My wife’s mule stumbled and I heard her say, ‘that’s once’. A little while later that beast stumbled again and my wife said, ‘that’s twice’. Then the poor creature stumbled again and my wife got off and shot that mule! I said, “honey, don’t you think that was a little harsh?’ She said, ‘that’s once.'”
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Dienne you are funny.
I enjoy a good joke myself.
People do get desperate with children, don’t they?
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See the Department of Education report “Promoting Grit, Tenacity, and Perseverance: Critical Factors for Success in the 21st Century.” You will love the stuff about what a shame it is that we can’t have FMRIs small enough to monitor students’ affect responses continually as they do their worksheets on a screen but, fortunately, we have these other technologies we’ve been working on–retinal scanners, wristbands for measuring galvanic skin response.
I think that these guys read 1984 and thought it was an instruction manual on how to run a country’s educational system.
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Click to access OET-Draft-Grit-Report-2-17-13.pdf
I wish I were making this stuff up.
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Pavlov would love this…add an extra “shock” feature and we can train them as we wish.
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Gates is working on that…electric biometric bracelets strapped to your Amplify tablet and monitored by the cyber automaton while in a blended learning environment, which a series of colorful cubicles in a room with no windows.
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Wow. I much prefer the attitude of these educators, featured on a PBS segment two days ago in Denver. The segment is entitled: “Transforming School Experience for African-American Boys” and promotes encouraging boys to find their own “swag” in becoming readers.
http://video.pbs.org/video/2365073387
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On a serious note, from the article: “I fell in love with their reading marathon program called “word count ” where scholars are rewarded based on how many words they read per month.”
Somehow we have to reach parents as far as what education is really all about. Parents thinking that the number of words read is a significant measure of reading ability (or whatever) is part of the problem. Parents actually seek out this kind of rigid pedagogy and strict discipline because they think it’s good education – it will “make” their child “learn”. Unless parents understand what real learning is, and how poorly places like Democracy [sic] Prep provide opportunities for such learning (not to mention what kind of education the rich folks seek for their own children), the problems will persist because “pedagogy of poverty” will be in demand.
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Who counts the number of words in articles or books they read? No one, ever. What a senseless task.
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I experienced similar things at the Charter my son went too. He was sent to the office to sit there all day because he looked onto someone else’s paper because he did not understand the directions. He is Dyslexic and had an IEP with no services and just his name on it. I am a parent against Charter’s and I do not promote them. After one year I pulled him out and home schooled him the next year until we moved to another state. Parent’s will soon see that Charters are not any kind of substitute for public school or any kind of school. We do need a new system but Charters are not it.
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We have a version here in CT called Achievement First: reorientation room, white shirts for offenders, finger snapping, chanting and lining up just right. See comment left by former AF teacher and the blog post about a recent chaotic, out of order Hartford BOE meeting with students trained to finger snap and chant whenever the cult leader spoke.
“In regards to the AF meeting: As someone who used to work for that hell of a school, this article (sadly) made me crack a crazy laugh (although I went home and cried most of that year) because it sums it all up. Did their treatment of special education even come into play? Or high staff turn over? At least the discipline and suspensions came into question, sorta. A chunk of them for a kid looking down or not sitting up straight for a second. Reading about those white reorientation shirts gives me nightmares (I watched kids lose it after a few white shirt moments) along with thoughts of special Ed kids locked in a single room all day, the same ‘bad’ kids sitting in the halls thrown out, and an insane rewards/punishment system. As someone who started with a strong, successful OPP model, with kids who had harder backgrounds and less external support, I still have nightmares about AF. I was warned not to work for them before I started and I had very intelligent, amazing teacher friends go to interviews and refuse to work there after being asked questions solely on discipline. I almost got fired for saying no to the principal who wanted me to throw out a field trip parent form for a sped student… “Leave her behind and go as a chaperone.” He said he couldn’t have a teacher that would say no on his staff… Horror stories. I have tons!!”
http://www.realhartford.org/2013/09/03/hartford-board-of-ed-out-of-order/
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Achievement First…Humanity Second…or third…or…?
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We call it Apartheid First.
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What makes this scarier is that the new criteria for ADHD now expands the age up to which a child can be diagnosed…..new paradigm in education = more kids on drugs, and probably more boys:
Google if link doesn’t work: A Nation of Kids on Speed
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323728204578513662248894162.html
“Symptoms of ADHD remain the same in the new edition: “overlooks details,” “has difficulty remaining focused during lengthy reading,” “often fidgets with or taps hands” and so on. The difference is that in the previous version of the manual, the first symptoms of ADHD needed to be evident by age 7 for a diagnosis to be made. In DSM-5, if the symptoms turn up anytime before age 12, the ADHD diagnosis can be made.”
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Good Lord, who in their right mind would send their child to this hellhole?
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The thing that scares me is that she actually went in and repeatedly observed this treatment. I’d’ve had my kid out of there the first time.
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This also appeared in EdNotesOnline with many additional links.
Link: http://ednotesonline.blogspot.com/2013/09/on-democracy-prep-plantation-when-zero.html
There are some excellent comments on this posting. I remind everyone, though, that whenever the major charterites/privatizers have trouble defending their words and actions they chant with a droning insistence “we’re public schools! we’re public schools!”
In other words, they make public schools take the blame for worst practices—and if they do anything right, they chant hypnotically “we’re not like the public schools! we’re not like the public schools!”
WE’RE SPECCCCCCCIAL!!!
😦
I will only allude to what I cannot write on this blog because I would be kicked off [and justifiably so]—and will not because it is too raw and provocative [hence counterproductive]—but I cannot deny the voices echoing in my head from my childhood as a white kid growing up in the black ghetto of Detroit.
Even more than a half century later I can still hear the lovely long drawn out southern drawls and wry humor of some of the black parents of my playmates and neighbors. They sometimes said things around me that they probably would never have said if I were an adult. Irrespective of formal education or not, there was a lot of good sense and worldly wisdom to be gained. And they were straight shooters.
So in deference to good manners in mixed company I will only say that when I read the linked article I felt genuine nausea and revulsion. I can only hope that the spirits, minds and joy of those children will survive the beat down.
So I’ll try to end this PG:
“Slaves are generally expected to sing as well as work.” [Frederick Douglass]
Ok, scholars, let’s get all chanty, spontaneously and on queue!
“At times like this, scorching irony, not convincing argument, is needed.” [Frederick Douglass]
‘Nuff said.
🙂
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Thanks for the link…..check out all the Vimeo links..most are achievement first parents explaining why they took their kids out. And Hartford just approved another one and will probably close a school to accommodate this franchise.
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“WE’RE SPECCCCCCCIAL!!!
:(”
Don’t know why but as I looked up from getting another bite of chocolate ice cream I read that as “WE’RE FECCCCCCCCCAL”
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That’s the sound of the men. . .
Working on the chain. Gang.
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What we have here is a failure to communicate.
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Democracy Prep is educating for the NEW Democracy, as is being effectively re-defined by Bill Gates and friends…you don’t think they’d get 9 million to educate on the actual definition of “democracy”, do you?
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Scripted instruction according to Gates.
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Yes, that newly-branded Democracy, where War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength and (willfully engineered) Crisis is Opportunity.
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Hi. I have been lurking here for a while now but I just had to comment on this item. I certainly do hope that the school responds to this depiction. I am open-minded enough to listen to every side of a story. For now, anyway, I can say that this punitive approach is absolutely in line with what I know of the charter schools in my area (not NYC). I guess these “experts” think they are instilling the discipline needed for success. The appalling thing, however, is that this kind of approach is uniformly reserved for the predominately lower middle class and immigrant children enrolled in the charters. Our city has a handful of progressive schools where the children of the well-to-do are educated by people who understand that discipline is something that must be built intrinsically, through loving guidance, and according to the developmental needs of growing children. You couldn’t pay the elite parents I know any amount of money to enroll their children in a charter school panopticon. Yet here are so many of them foisting it on others’ children with the false-promise that it will put them on equal footing in a race to the top. It is a scam that people can’t fully appreciate until they see how differently the children of the elite are cultivated as human beings.
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This is an excellent comment. It’s true that “discipline is something that must be built intrinsically, through loving guidance, and according to the developmental needs of growing children.” But this is easier to say than implement. And if your school is out of control while your waiting for students to become intrinsically disciplined, what do you do? I think it takes very talented administrators and teachers to teach kids to be good for godness’s sake but also be fair and equitable in setting guidelines and giving out consequences. All this is tougher than we like to admit.
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Yes, it is easier said than done. But it appears that these “reformers” in their quest for fast results have skipped over many respectful, developmentally appropriate methods that work because they aren’t cheap or they don’t work fast enough. For example, teachers looping with their kids for at least 2 years can improve classroom management issues. (Of course you can’t do this with shallowly trained teachers and high turnover.) Not closing schools where the principals and administrators have a long history in the school and the community also helps with the continuity of care that is so important to disadvantaged students. Conflict resolution circles for parents can be effective because oftentimes the parents’ dramas spread into the school. Not to mention the basics like offering meaningful artistic experiences, recess/physical activity, smaller class sizes and programs that help parents provide nutritious meals and enough sleep every night.
I know this sounds like the old liberal fix-it list but right now some of these charters are throwing out the baby with the bathwater. “Spirit fingers”?!! You’ve got to be kidding me. In my view this is a pseudoscientific shortcut (i.e., trying to hotwire mind-body engagement in kids sitting at desks all day) instead of actually doing things that will engage the children as the young learners they are. Back to my previous comments about schools for the upper middle class, those children are allowed the slow road to discernment, judgment and thoughtful participation. Are we all going to start using “sprit fingers” at Harvard lectures, or in meetings at Microsoft or the World Economic Forum? Of course not. Some American children are being prepared to claim their place in the halls of power through their education (e + ducere: to draw out of) and others are being given a cheap imitation of that process. And it only adds salt to the wound for anyone to say that this is the charter school parents’ “choice”. That assumes that these parents have perfect information, which they clearly do not. More needs to be said about the on-the-ground differences in how privileged and disadvantaged children are being educated.
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I worked in a charter a few years back. The “bad” kids were forced to wear their uniform shirts inside out. This was called being on bench. Nobody was allowed to talk to these kids. If another kid talked to him or her THEY were put on bench and had to have their shirts worn inside out. Another punishment was some kids were forced to sit on the floor next to their desk. The thought being that the kid had to “earn” the right to be able to sit at a table. This is simply corporal punishment straight and simple. Just imagine if a regular district school tried to pull moves like this. There would be lawsuits left and right.
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I would love to hear about a school where the kids banded together and all turned their shirts inside out and all sat on the floor. That’s what I’d tell my daughter to do if she were ever at a school like that (which would happen over my dead body).
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That’s the kind of crap the nuns used to do to us. And yes, we used to “band together” to counteract their educational malpractices. Or they might come in the next day and find a few live crawdads in their desk.
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The general public is now becoming involved in “reform” and that’s a very good thing.
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Here is the N.Y. child abuse laws. Looks like it to me in N.Y. and in California also. I think a good lawyer could do something with this. What do the rest of you think after you read the law?
New York Child Abuse Laws
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________________________________________
More Information on Child Abuse Laws
Code Section Soc. Services. §411-428
What Constitutes Abuse Injury by other than accidental means causing death, disfigurement, impairment of physical or emotional health; deliberate indifference causing such injury; creating substantial risk of such injury; sexual abuse, permitting sexual criminal behavior
Mandatory Reporting Required By Physician, coroner, dentist, chiropractor, psychologist, nurse, school official, hospital personnel, social services worker, day care center worker, mental health professional, Christian Science practitioner, substance abuse/alcoholism counselor, peace officer, police officer, district attorney, residential care facility worker, foster care worker, optometrist, podiatrist, EMT; any person may report
Basis of Report of Abuse/neglect Reasonable cause to suspect that a child is abused or maltreated or knows from personal knowledge of parent or guardian, facts, conditions, or circumstances which, if correct, would render the child abused or maltreated
To Whom Reported Statewide central register of child abuse or local child protective services
Penalty for Failure to Report or False Reporting Class A misdemeanor and civil liability
Note: State laws are constantly changing — contact an attorney or conduct your own legal research to verify the state law(s) you are researching.
Research the Law:
• Official State Codes – Links to the official online statutes (laws) in all 50 states and DC.
Related Resources for Child Abuse Laws:
• More Child Abuse Laws
• Family Law Center – Child Abuse
• New York Criminal Law Blog: Child Abuse
• Find a Family Law Attorney
11 2296 0 3
Next Step Search and Browse
Contact a qualified attorney.
– See more at: http://statelaws.findlaw.com/new-york-law/new-york-child-abuse-laws.html#sthash.EI5uMrGo.dpuf
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“. . . impairment of physical or emotional health; deliberate indifference causing such injury; creating substantial risk of such injury;. . .”
Considering that “emotional health” is specifically listed and that forcing students to do such things is far worse than “deliberate indifference” I’d say there is a case to be made.
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Wow! Talk about a one-sided presentation of a school. It would be difficult for anyone to pass judgement on this charter based on these comments. Two sides to a story are always better than one, but that isn’t happening here. Maybe those with the REST of the story on this school didn’t feel welcomed by this (biased) audience.
Sounds like this woman’s son would have been better served if he attended a different school.
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And any other child who won’t follow the lock step indoctrination policies….I don’t know anyone who would send their children to this holding facility including the “reformers”.
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The Democracy Prep charter is welcome to post a response.
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dianerav: the power of an idea—
“The Democracy Prep charter is welcome to post a response.”
It’s called democracy [lowercase] in action. Let’s hope that Democracy [uppercase] takes advantage of your invitation.
As a recent example: while not without some less fortunate moments, I for one think that E. D. Hirsch Jr. did himself a big favor by posting on this blog. My opinion of him as an individual has risen, in part because he engaged in discussion and debate in this open forum.
I await their response.
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“Maybe those with the REST of the story on this school didn’t feel welcomed by this (biased) audience.”
Or maybe they know that what is written is true and that there is no REST of the story (apologies to Paul Harvey, eh)
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Duane Swacker: some folks just can’t seem to see the wisdom in an old dead Greek guy’s advice—
“Words empty as the wind are best left unsaid.” [Homer]
🙂
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What context? ILIAD or ODYSSEY? Which character speaks it?
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Just saw this story about a charter school in Oklahoma that sent a girl home because her dreadlocks hairdo was too “distracting”: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/09/04/tulsa-school-sends-girl-home-because-dreadlocks-and-afros-are-too-distracting/
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You are the parent, choose another school, maybe a good public school.
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Stories like this are just the tip of the iceberg. Not only are attendance data, grades, test scores and discipline incidents being doctored for “reports”, this everyday abuse is underway in full force. It constitute “professional development”. This perversion of “public schooling” may be what ultimately takes them down but we need more speaking out both from charters and from NCLB 2.0 or CC situations. Example…
(May Taliaferrow, former parent at Achievement First, Brooklyn, NY starts out as an avid charter school supporter but finds parents are shut out and children are subjected to severe discipline and ends up telling her son how sorry she was for putting him the school.)
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I’ll bite. Is COLUMBIA a reference to Columbia Teachers College where students would NEVER be taught these “classroom strategy” shenanigans?
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This kind of total control should be reserved for North Korea not school children. This is robots scared to do anything else. It is the beaten down syndrome to comply with the Fuhrer. Simple as that. Still child abuse by legal defination. Read the law I enclosed above.
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At one point several years ago, I worked in a NYC school that shared a space with a charter school. These kids were there from 7am-4:30pm and they were required to march in regimented formations whenever they were on their way to the cafeteria or in the halls for any reason. I would hardly say that this strict kind of dealing with children made them into model citizens! There were some pretty harsh behaviors coming from that school and I am sure some of them were the result of feeling “over-controlled. One incident that was serious and went under the radar to preserve “charter sanctity”… a 5th grade student brought a gun to school (loaded) and proceeded to take it out to show another student in the middle of his class. It was all hush hush because the principal feared it would reflect on the all-important school grades! And the principal at my school was all too agreeable to comply as we were told during our staff meeting (mind you a day after the event happened) that we were not to speak to the media about this under any circumstances. Success of “the charter school” is an “ed reform” myth and parents should be VERY WARY!!
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Sounds typical because they are protecting their business product. This is an example of why serving a Geographic community with an elected school board would help. They constantly keep secrets from the parents.
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More law and order except when they mess up it seems. That surely is a crime for not reporting isn’t it?
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The problem with the Charter’s in general is that they are not held to the same standard as public schools. If Charter’s do become the public schools then eventually they will be held to the same standard and then we will see what happens?
The Charter’s are notorious for having “good behavior” and ridiculous rules that have nothing to do with learning or educating. They are archaic in nature and revert back to the 1950’s and are considered child abuse today. It is amazing how much they have gotten away with and still are not called out on. I think that will change as parents become more aware. Part of the problem is that these Charter’s are put in low income areas and the parents may not be well educated either. That might be one of the reasons why things are not being reported.
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Ok so since the comments here are the usual suspects even cracking jokes, I would like to offer up this dilemma from my public school day in NC.
The Horrace Mann guy came to our faculty meeting and gave us calendars and a packet and was very excited to tell us about a website that helps link grants with funding (forgot the name–husband took me out for cocktails tonight so it has slipped my mind). Anyway, I was really buying into it all until he said they had recently partnered with Amazon (first moment of caution), and then he dropped Gates’ name.
OK, so does Gates have his hands in good stuff too? What of Amazon and posts I have read about avoiding taxes and not paying workers well? Anyone? Baby and the bath water? So confused (cocktails or not).
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Who’s this “Horace Mann guy”? Don’t recognize the reference.
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The reformers and politicians told us that charters would be exempt from the rules and regulations of the public school. We have fallen for it hook line and sinker. Parents need to start speaking up.
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The description of this school is terrifying. But remember that for every one of these militaristic charter schools there are many more public schools without order, where children are bullied and mistreated by other students. Some students even fear succeeding in school lest they be picked on for being a teacher’s pet. I am more willing to listen to someone who has a sound approach to this problem besides the old Herbert Kohl nonsense about discipline causing misbehavior and hangups.
A middle-class white person I think tends to read this description with their own child’s school as a frame of reference.
Shanker supported charter schools initially as a way of improving school discipline. The public likes seeing images of city schools run in an orderly way. What are we going to do about this problem besides being outraged over too-strict enforcement of rules?
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“But remember that for every one of these militaristic charter schools there are many more public schools without order, where children are bullied and mistreated by other students.”
Please name names and/or cite sources for these supposed “many more public schools”.
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Surveys for the past school year were just released by the New York City DOE, and I thought I’d take a quick look at a sample district (District 7 in the South Bronx) with district schools that serve a challenging population (88% free-lunch eligible, 20% ELL, 96% black + Hispanic) and also sends a lot of its kids to charters, either within or outside the district.
There are 15 traditional district elementary schools in D7. At 7 of those 15 schools, at least a third of the teachers disagreed with the statement, “order and discipline are maintained at my school”
and/or
–agreed with the statement, “Students are *often* harassed or bullied *in school* ” (emphasis mine).
If a third doesn’t seem conclusive, keep in mind that these are high-stakes, high-pressure surveys that are fed into the formula that determines a school’s letter grade, which in turn influences closure decisions (and a principal’s bonus).
The parents in this district can’t afford to move to where Diane lives or where I live, or out to the suburbs (and many of those are as rigidly segregated as they were in the days of restrictive covenants, overt steering, and red-lining, anyway). They can’t afford private school tuition. Their local school has had problems for years and it isn’t unreasonable for them to wonder whether it can be “fixed” in time for their kids.
I’m happy to hold charters under the microscope and have the debate whether a so-called public school should be able to treat kids the way this parent claims Democracy Prep treated her son. But so-called no-excuses schools have been around for a while now–parents know exactly what they are signing up for (in droves). Supporters of education strictly-by-street-address need to come up with some better answers for families who are zoned for truly dysfunctional schools (and quit pretending that they don’t exist).
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Cherry picking stats does not a point prove. Which are the schools that you reference that “at least a third of the teachers disagreed with the statement, “’order and discipline are maintained at my school'” and/or agreed with the statement, ‘Students are *often* harassed or bullied *in school*’”
Name names! Which ones are they. Maybe something will be done then.
No doubt about “Their local school has had problems for years and it isn’t unreasonable for them to wonder whether it can be “fixed” in time for their kids.” No it’s not unreasonable. The parents should be busting the doors down to make the situation improve.
But you echo TE in “education strictly-by-street-address”. If the parents aren’t happy then by all means they can actively work to improve the schools, move to another school district and/or send their children to private schools.
Are you helping to improve those nameless schools?
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Here are the sources, Duane.
List of elementary schools in District 7: http://goo.gl/6UeABq
School survey link: http://schools.nyc.gov/Accountability/tools/FindAReport/default.htm
This information isn’t some great secret as you imply, which is why parents are flocking to charters and to the more highly functioning schools in the district.
I’m not sure if your comment about moving to a better district or to private school was made in jest. 88% of the kids in the district are free-lunch eligible, the waiting list at NYCHA facilities (which are mostly zoned for struggling schools anyway) is 15+ years long, and the cost for housing in a decent zone is astronomical (the deeply segregated suburbs are off-limits).
Is it really that difficult to understand why charter schools are a highly appealing option to many families? And why the harsh discipline of some no-excuses schools is tolerable for them in the face of chaotic district schools?
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Tim,
I didn’t intend to or suggest that the information is a “great secret”. I simply asked for you to name the names of the schools where you believe there is such a “chaotic” teaching and learning atmosphere. Please name the names, you’re the one who has made the accusation, not I.
Also I did not say anything about finding it “. . . difficult to understand why charter schools are a highly appealing option. . . ” nor did I nor did I mention anything about “. . . why the harsch discipline of some. . . ? Although I will now.I can understand why a charter or magnet school might be preferable but I do not believe that the “harsh discipline” environment as is such in some of the charters is acceptable. I grew up in just such an school environment (you ever have to kneel on a triangular ruler for 15 minutes while holding your book bag/backpack straight armed out in front) going through Catholic Schools K-12 and what it taught me was how to be quite subversive and sneaky in counteracting such educational malpractices.
What you have done is to put words in my mouth through straw man arguments. Sorry, but that just doesn’t cut it in my way of thinking/being.
I am not against charter schools, even for profits. I am against for profit (and even most non-profits if they receive public monies and don’t have the transparency in management and programs that is mandated for the public schools) schools receiving public monies. Let them stand on their own in the vaunted “free market” of education.
And it is the parents rights and RESPONSIBILITY to see that their child receives an appropriate education. Which means they may have to fight tooth and nail with a builing’s and/or district’s administration to get it for their child. You can help them by naming names and laying out your case against those schools.
Again, if you would please answer my two requests: name names and are you helping to improve those “chaotic district schools”?
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Okay, Duane, get your pencil and paper ready: for you, I actually rummaged through my paper recycling bin to find the piece of scrap I jotted these numbers on!
Here are the seven (out of 15) elementary schools in this district where at least a third of the teachers disagreed with the statement, “order and discipline are maintained at my school”
and/or
–agreed with the statement, “Students are *often* harassed or bullied *in school* ” (emphasis mine).
They are PS 65, PS 49, PS 30, PS 277, PS 161, PS 154, and PS 1.
I am not doing anything to directly improve the conditions at these schools, alas. Would that I could.
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Ten hours of class daily??? I’m climbing the walls just thinking about it.
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I posted this story on ednotesonline. One of the most riveting parts of our film response to Waiting for Superman (The Inconvenient Truth Behind Waiting for Superman) was the testimony of former charter school parents at Achievement First.
Here are the links — make sure to have some tissues handy.
Don’t ignore the comment of the parent who wrote this piece about Democracy Prep about the all white teaching staff. I visited a public school in Harlem co-located with DP. Most of the teachers in the under resourced public school were people of color and older while the highly resourced DP had teachers who were mostly white and young. What does this picture look like from the point of view of a black child?
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Do you have any background info on the CBS special “Teach” airing tonight???
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I have heard it was directed by Davis Guggenheim of “Waiting for Superman” fame. No confirmation, however.
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Yes, he does have his hand in it, but is claiming to be more “positive”. The only thing I found on line are the materials, or should I say “products” the teachers use will be highlighted. (Kahn Academy and Chrome Books) So I am wondering if this is nothing more than a big commercial for these products.
I found the last paragraph of the review in the NYTimes to be insulting to unionized teachers. These teachers seem to be “veterans”, but that last paragraph has me wondering if there is an anti-union agenda. Of course the NYTimes no longer offers a place for comments when they bring out the “zing” or misinformation.
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I’ll post a contrarian view just for the sake of balancing this a bit. Charter schools like Democracy Prep hardly hide their no excuses discipline policies and most of the details of their consequentialist disciplinary protocols are well described in their webpages and student/parent handbooks. Parent freely chose to put their kids in these no excuse schools. They go through a pretty extensive selection process, which makes it pretty hard for parents to not know this is what you are getting your children into. I may disagree with the discipline policies of the no excuse charter schools. I may think they are dehumanizing, degrading, militaristic, whatever. I may think I would never submit my children to it. None of this is really relevant. The parents of these kids signed on to it – AND they can leave whenever they want to (and the opp. choice here is provided in large part by charter schools). I’ve always wondered why military academies, and literalist creationist religious schools, or all girls catholic schools exist, but they do, and even though my kids would never participate in this kind of schooling (and I have deep philosophical differences with just about everything they do), I respect parents right to decide the education of their children. Its clear, that many charter schools have many parents who very much want to be part of this kind of schooling, and I also accept the possibility that kids from different background may need it, or benefit from it. ,
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And you feel that money should be siphoned away from regular public schools to support this?
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He is a charter groupie.
btw, another reason why Eva’s school “may” have scored so well was because some schools bought the Pearson test prep packages. It was later reported that some of the passages from the prep materials were used in the actual tests. Another reason why these tests must be made public.
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I probably shouldn’t respond to blogs when Ive had too much coffee ;)..
Jim, That’s certainly an important question – what’s a fair allocation in a limited resource scenario. Public funding in this country,is wrong and destructive and the inequities it produces one of the great moral issue of our generation. I think though that the question about charters siphoning really should be posed from a broader pt of view – which is, given these are collective resources (government funding for schools) – do parents/children of charter schools, who (are mostly urban poor or working class) deserve to have choices other than comprehensive public schools (they can’t get into the elite public schools like the specialized schools in NYC (cause their scores are too low and they get displaced by more privileged white and asian kids), they can’t attend elite public suburban schools (cause they don’t live there), and there aren’t enough really extraordinary urban public schools to go around (for complex reasons and for which I agree “charters” are not the only possible answer – as a group they certainly haven’t found the golden fleece). But do relatively underpriviliged families and children deserve a a public funded alternative to traditional public schools (many which struggle to be great, by the way, because of the stifling bureaucracy of big city DOE’s). I am just as sick as many in this blog of the power grab and the funding grab by people who know little of education, the invasion of the barbarians (by that I mean people without either training or experience in education who now run the majority of the school districts and departments of education of this country and of my country), and I disagree fundamentally and philosophically with the purpose and method of education, discipline and structure used by some of the charters (but not all of them); but having researched, worked and consulted on both sides of the charter vs public school fence I can say that regardless of what I personally think about charters, there is a clear and strong market for them; many parents (particularly of certain educational and cultural background) believe in the no-excuses culture and everything else that comes with it. And thus for me the question becomes do the these urban poor and low income families/children deserve public funding for a kind of schooling they want (and that on top of that will receive substantial additional external funding which would never make it into public schools – and this for reasons that are obvious to anyone in public schooling admin). I think that if I were poor and wanted to get my children ahead, and my values were consistent with the no-excuses culture (actually pretty similar to the traditional disciplinary structure I experienced as a kid in Puerto Rico), and charter schools in Harlem, for example, are in better shape physically, appear to have more resources, look more professionally managed, certainly market themselves better, and on top of that they just scored much better than the alternative comprehensive public school my two kids go to…and have better peer groups (yes thanks to selectivity and differential attrition, perhaps)… so when one puts all this together some charter schools are looking pretty good…to certain families and children. Charters are not religious institutions so they pose no serious constitutional threat (frankly I worry more about homeschooling and biblical literalist schools in terms of damaging kids)….
(disclaimer – my kids go and will continue to go to a regular vanilla flavored public school that has good teachers (not extraordinary) but not much else and with a GT curriculum than even my new STEM magnet public school in Dominican Republic beats by a longshot…)
Schoolgal – Im not sure if charging me as a “charter school groupie” is a meaningful way to address an issue under discussion, but let me just say that there are many honorable, dedicated and committed educators on both side of the charter vs public school fence. Some of us don’t think its black and white – and one or the other; and think instead that important lessons about schooling and education can be gained from not just charter and public schools, but also specialized, themed, selective, private, parochial, international and national schools across the world. I’ve worked/researched or my children or I have attended everyone one of the above, and I’ve done research and consulted (as well as founded and turned around 5 different kinds of schools, teacher ed programs and an ngo dedicated to outdoor education). I’m hardly a groupie of anything and a career of 25 and counting years in education has given me a sense that issues are complex, solutions not facile, silver bullets (or potshot criticisms) always wrong, that real heroes and villains actually don’t exist, and moreover that even those I consider my intellectual enemies might actually have something to teach me.
I don’t know how Eva’s schools did do so well in the new NYCDOE CC aligned state tests. If she was smart enough to use the Pearson test prep materials, well she really pulled one over all the rest of us who somehow failed to see the possible connection! I’m even pretty sure these tests (or any test of this kind) don’t mean much about the quality of the educational experience children receive (and I would never put my kids, nor have I made any important educational decision as a school leader, based on tests scores). But demonizing people like Eva (as much as I disagree with her on many key issues) doesn’t further any conversation about substantial educational issues. And it really is hard, if you really know the details of what she has been doing, to present a strong case that she does it for the money, or to exploit the lives of the kids under her steed, or any other of the wild and destructive accusations I have read in this blog. I think we dishonor Diane’s example as a thinker and an educator when we take potshots at individuals we disagree with. One can certainly take decent, reasoned, values or evidence based potshots at ideas, policies, actions and behaviors (and maybe occasionally at really stupid politicians!). But adhominem attacks have no place in any serious education blog.
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They read and live “The Art of War.” On us.
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Parents are free to send their children to pseudo military academies if they choose- but not with my tax dollars. This is not education, it is child abuse.
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I agree that this school format sounds just awful, but after teaching 25 years, I do not respond well to a student who says, “What did I do?” Usually fake innocence/further attention getting.
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Pidge, I totally get that! I too have seen the feigned shock/innocence that you describe. The objective is to continue engaging the teacher in a power struggle and get out of a consequence for more subtle disrespectful behaviors by playing the “poor, victimized child being harassed by unreasonable teachers.” There ARE children who truly do not understand the expectations of teachers and are put in double-binds by unclear communication; however, there are just as many savvy kids who know how to play the game of pitting adults against each other while hi-jacking the behavior in the classroom.
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On that note, children who play that game DO need VERY firm rules and boundaries. Children who don’t understand expectations need explanations, not harsh discipline. If the school has a large population of kids who are a mixture of the two, small class sizes are the best bet. Many teachers will be able to tease out which kids are which and respond accordingly.
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If I were to provide the same behavioral management as this charter school did – which I would not because it’s dead wrong to do so – I would be written up and pressed for termination, rightfully so.
If charters are to gain any real credibility, they must follow the same rules for testing, student demographics, and discipline as public schools if they are going to be exempt from unions and more equitable contracts for teachers. Having the freedom from employment conventions is never to be equated with the freedom from treating children appropriately.
But then again, this lack of parity is to be expected, as it is easy to achieve and maintain when it is directly off the backs of minors, who are young, naive, vulnerable, and innocent.
When the reformers can’t get enough from the middle class, from the unions, and from teachers, they then turn their predation upon the young. How utterly unacceptable and perverse.
I am surprised Joseph Nathan had not commented on this yet . . . .
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The Roll Over, Good Boy approach to instruction is just about as creepy as it gets. But it’s perfect for Prole training.
This was the approach that Morgan Spurlock was fawning over in one of the recent episodes of his television program Inside Man.
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thelvingteacher: I understand your point but see militaristic school policy as a problem when it IS THE EDUCATION. Students deserve much better. Of course students deserve to be safe and should be safe when at school. For me that goes without saying. But I see it as a serious problem when the humanity of our students is totally over-looked in the name of order. And when the “learning” as one commentator put it.. is all about conforming to rules that have no educational value with the exception of creating order. The larger picture should be asking “why” title one students should be subjected to this. And if we treated them more humanely this might actually be a much greater motivational force.
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My problem is not with the discipline, they signed on for that, but with the lack of physical activity. Children need to run and play for their physical, mental and spiritual well being..
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If you have facts and can prove what you say bring it to the table. If you are spouting proven failures, in general charter schools, it should be shot down with the facts. Enough of the politically correct and not hurting others feelings. Sticks and stones will break my bones. words cannot hurt me. How about that one. Charter schools have had over 20 years and have produced nothing except in general nothing useful.
The real problem is things like NCLB, RTI, RTTT, zero tolerance. teach to the test and zero accountability in a public school system. We do not need charter schools and this foolishness for greed and power. We need our public schools to do their job and be held accountable. First you start with the budget as all comes from the money. First are the students as they are the revenue generators. At LAUSD over 117,000 do not come to school everyday for a lost revenue of over $1.25 billion. That is at 30 students/classroom 3,900 teachers and associated staff without a job and 117,000 students on their way to low income or criminal justice. Not a good tradeoff even if it raises your test scores all of 3 points and you brag about it.
If you get your money under control you can create the best environment for learning by having control and steady funding of your programs. Money=programs. That simple and everything else follows.
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At CORE-CA we have one word for it all and that is “COMMUNITY.” It is not just schools. It is proper jobs, healthcare, criminal justice, the regular courts, services, ethics, food, water, governing bodies. It takes the proper combination and inter-reaction between them all that makes it work. Example: Truancy. A friend of mine, who is a CPA, has taken on truancy. His son was a failure in Santa Monica where Deasy was which is how he know back about him who later goes up very high in the military, in fact, in D.C. now. For years he has tried to get LAUSD to implement with the D.A.’s office a computerized program to send out the legally required letters to the parents when their children are truant. It has not happened. Maybe it will be agendized on the 17th. We will see about the new board. When this is implemented in other California counties truancy drops rapidly by 50-60%. If you implement the high school student and his friends creation which interfaces with the schools attendance daily and in real time sends a text message to the parent or guardian that you student is not in school. Now how many truants are back in school. If not in school they will end up with the low wage jobs and/or in the criminal justice system. There are over 300,000 truancies every year and the district in the L.A. Daily News is making a big deal out of bringing back 4,000. Nice, but NO! In 2011-12 the difference between enrollment, how many sign up to be in school, and ADA, those who actually come to school, was 117,000 or 17% for a lost revenue of $1.25 billion and the loss of at least 4,000 teachers jobs. Now the question is “WILL THEY BRING BACK THOSE STUDENTS OR DO THEY NOT COUNT?” Students are supposed to be #1.
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