Earlier today, Ben Austin wrote an open letter to me on Huffington Post. He expressed dismay about my characterization of him and his group Parent Revolution. Read his letter here. Here is my reply.
Dear Ben Austin,
Thank you for your invitation to engage in dialogue in your letter posted on Huffington Post.
You probably know that I have been writing a daily blog for the past fourteen months and during that time, I have written over 4,000 posts. I can’t remember any time when I have lost my temper other than when I wrote about your successful effort to oust an elementary school principal in Los Angeles named Irma Cobian.
I apologize for calling you “loathsome,” though I do think your campaign against a hardworking, dedicated principal working in an inner-city school was indeed loathsome. And it was wrong of me to say that there was a special place in hell reserved for anyone “who administers and funds this revolting organization that destroys schools and fine educators like Irma Cobian.”
As I said, I lost my temper, and I have to explain why.
I don’t like bullies. When I saw this woman targeted by your powerful organization, it looked like bullying. Your organization is funded by many millions of dollars from the Walton Family Foundation, the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, and the Eli and Edythe Broad Foundation. You have a politically powerful organization, and you used your power to single out this one woman and get her fired.
Your organization sent in paid staff to collect signatures from parents. The teachers in the school were not permitted to express their opinion to parents about your efforts to fire their principal. When you succeeded in getting her fired, 21 of the 22 teachers on staff requested a transfer. That suggests that Cobian has the loyalty of her staff and is a good leader.
Who is this woman that you ousted?
All I know about her is what I read in this article in the Los Angeles Times.
It said: “More than two decades ago, Cobian walked away from a high-powered law firm to teach. The daughter of Mexican immigrants, she said she was inspired by a newspaper article about the low high school graduation rates of Latinos and wanted to make a difference.
“Her passion for social justice led her to Watts in 2009.”
Irma Cobain is now in her fourth year as principal of the school, and you decided that her time was up.
What did her teachers say about her?
“Third-grade teacher Kate Lewis said Irma Cobian is the best principal she’s had in nine years at Weigand Avenue Elementary School in Watts.
“Joseph Shamel called Cobian a “godsend” who has used her mastery of special education to show him how to craft effective learning plans for his students.”
“Fourth-grade teacher Hector Hernandez said Cobian is the first principal he’s had who frequently pops into classrooms to model good teaching herself. Recently, he said, she demonstrated how to teach about different literary genres by engaging students in lively exercises using characters from the “Avengers” comic book and film.”
When Cobian arrived at the Weigand Avenue Elementary school four years ago, she found a school with low test scores, low parent involvement, and divisiveness over a dual-language program. “All the students come from low-income families, more than half are not fluent in English and a quarter turn over every year,” the Los Angeles Times story said.
Cobian decided to focus on improving literacy and raising morale. She certainly won over the faculty.
The day after Cobian learned about the vote removing her, she went to a second-grade classroom to give prizes to children who had read 25 books this year. She cheered those who met the goal and encouraged those who were trying. But she could not hide her sadness.
“I need happiness today,” Cobian told the bright-eyed students. “What do I do when I’m sad?”
“Come here!” the students sang out.
For a moment, her sadness gave way to smiles. But later, she said: “I am crushed.”
Ben, how did you feel when you read that? I felt sad. I felt this was a caring and dedicated person who had been singled out unfairly.
Ben, I hope you noticed in the article that Dr. John Deasy, the superintendent of schools in Los Angeles, praised the plan that Cobian and her staff developed for improving the school. He called it a “well-organized program for accelerated student achievement.” He thanked Cobian for her commitment and hard work.” But you decided she should be fired.
Ironically, the parent who worked with you to fire Cobian said she preferred Weigand to her own neighborhood school where she had concerns about bullying. Even stranger, the parents at Cobian’s school voted to endorse her plan. Your parent spokesperson said she did not like the plan because it focused on reading and writing, but she told the reporter from the Los Angeles Times that she actually never read the plan.
I understand from your letter, Ben, that you somehow feel you are a victim because of what I wrote about you. But, Ben, you are not a victim. Irma Cobian is the victim here. She lost her job because of your campaign to get rid of her. She is the one who was humiliated and suffered loss of income and loss of reputation. You didn’t. You still have your organization, your staff, and the millions that the big foundations have given you.
I am sorry you had a tough childhood. We all have our stories about growing up. I am one of eight children. My father was a high-school dropout. My mother immigrated from Bessarabia and was very proud of her high school diploma from the Houston public schools. She was proud that she learned to speak English “like a real American.” My parents were grateful for the free public schools of Houston, where I too graduated from high school. We had our share of problems and setbacks but I won’t go on about myself or my siblings because my story and yours are really beside the point. What troubles me is what you are doing with the millions you raise. You use it to sow dissension, to set parents against parents, parents against teachers, parents against principals. I don’t see this as productive or helpful. Schools function best when there is collaboration among teachers, parents, administrators, and students. Schools have a better chance of success for the children when they have a strong community and culture of respect.
Your “parent trigger” destroys school communities. True to its name, the “trigger” blasts them apart. It causes deep wounds. It decimates the spirit of respect and comity that is necessary to build a strong community. Frankly, after the school shootings of recent years, your use of the metaphor of a “parent trigger” is itself offensive. We need fewer triggers pointed at schools and educators. Please find a different metaphor, one that does not suggest violence and bloodshed.
It must be very frustrating to you and your funders that–three years after passage of the “parent trigger” law– you can’t point to a single success story. I am aware that you persuaded the parents at the Desert Trails Elementary School in Adelanto, California, to turn their public school over to a privately operated charter. I recall that when parents at the school tried to remove their signatures from your petition, your organization went to court and won a ruling that they were not allowed to rescind their signatures. Ultimately only 53 parents in a school of more than 600 children chose the charter operator. Since the charter has not yet opened, it is too soon to call that battle a success for Parent Revolution. Only the year before, the Adelanto Charter Academy lost its charter because the operators were accused of financial self-dealing.
But, Ben, let me assure you that I bear you no personal ill will. I just don’t approve of what you are doing. I think it is wrong to organize parents to seize control of their public school so they can fire the staff or privatize it. If the principal is doing a bad job, it is Dr. Deasy’s job to remove her or him. I assume that veteran principals and teachers get some kind of due process, where charges are filed and there is a hearing. If Cobain was as incompetent as you say, why didn’t Dr. Deasy bring her up on charges and replace her?
I also have a problem with the idea that parents can sign a petition and hand their public school off to a private charter corporation. The school doesn’t belong to the parents whose children are enrolled this year. It belongs to the public whose taxes built it and maintains it. As the L.A. Times story pointed out, one-quarter of the children at Weigand Avenue Elementary School are gone every year. The parents who sign a petition this year may not even be parents in the school next year. Why should they have the power to privatize the school? Should the patrons of a public library have the power to sign a petition and privatize the management? Should the people using a public park have the right to take a vote and turn the park over to private management?
We both care about children. I care passionately about improving education for all children. I assume you do as well. You think that your organized raids on public schools and professionals will lead to improvement. I disagree. Schools need adequate resources to succeed. They also need experienced professionals, a climate of caring, and stability. I don’t see anything in the “trigger” concept that creates the conditions necessary for improvement. Our teachers and principals are already working under too much stress, given that schools have become targets for federal mandates and endless reforms.
I suggest that educators need respect and thanks for their daily work on behalf of children. If they do a bad job, the leadership of the school system is responsible to take action. What educators don’t need is to have a super-rich, super-powerful organization threatening to pull the trigger on their career and their good name.
Ben, thanks for the open letter and the chance to engage in dialogue. If you don’t mind, I want to apologize to Irma Cobain on your behalf. She was doing her best. She built a strong staff that believes in her. She wrote a turnaround plan that Dr. Deasy liked and the parents approved. Ms. Cobain, if you read this, I hope you can forgive Ben. Maybe next time, he will think twice, get better information, and consider the consequences before he decides to take down another principal.
Diane Ravitch
Stellar.
So beautifully said Diane. Keep fighting the fight for quality public education.
Ms Ravitch, you make this teacher’s heart sing. I’d follow you anywhere. Thank you for always speaking truth to power and standing up for students, teachers and our communities.
I completely agree!!THANK YOU for all that you do Ms. Ravitch!
Diane…this could not have been said better. Excellent. Thank you.
Bravo, Diane!
My comment on Austin’s open letter:
The situation at Weigand isn’t about Ben Austin who, at worst, got his feathers ruffled when Diane Ravitch lashed out at him with what some people might reasonably characterize as righteous indignation on behalf of an excellent professional, Irma Cobian. In fact, it’s about the willful disruption, if not long-term destruction, of Ms. Cobian’s career and the fallout the attack upon her by Austin’s corporate-funded astroturf group had upon the children, parents, and staff of a school that could ill-afford the grief. Not only will things not improve as a result of this irresponsible action, but it seems certain that the results for the kids will be horrible for at least a year if not longer. But Austin & Co. won’t be around to repair the damage they’ve done or provide support for those kids. They’ll be knocking off the next easy target they can find to puff their reputations as hit-men for the corporate mob.
Did Diane Ravitch bruise your sensibilities, Mr. Austin, when she damned you to hell? I’m sure your salary will more than assuage the hurt. What about the woman you can’t bear to mention by name? What about the injuries you’ve done to her? I’ve followed Diane Ravitch for a long time, and it’s VERY unusual for her to use the language she did regarding you. Having read your “retort,” I can only suggest that you’ve made it easy to understand why she did so. You deserve everything she said.
I agree.
An outstanding reply.
Amen sister
Why would Ben Austin insert his own and his brother’s story in an open letter to you? And just for good measure, the annoying phrase, “…kids trapped in failing schools…” I am so sick of this refrain because it sounds like the rich and powerful really care. The parent tricker law is an outrage as are so many of these ALEC-induced mandates that are driving the joy out of teaching and learning.
Here’s how we fix the schools. Go to the private schools where the elite send their children and watch what their teachers do. Recreate it like they do on HGTV (High/Low Project) and voila! Answers to all your problems. Be sure to include high paying jobs for the parents and safe neighborhoods. If you can’t provide the jobs, how about a welcoming space for parents in the schools??? It could happen.
Diane,
You are inspiring! A mover and a shaker.
The claim of underdog status on the part of reformers is silly.
They produced a movie to market Parent Trigger. Austin himself is politically connected as is his supporter Michelle Rhee. They have billionaire donors and huge lobbying groups.
We’d have a lot more clarity in this “dialogue” if they just would admit that. It’s true.
Parent trigger legislation is controversial and proven to be highly disruptive in communities. If Austin cannot take the heat, then he should get out of the kitchen. First Hess complaining, and now Austin meowing, smacks of changing the subject.
Whining, complaining and mewoing…sounds like two little pampered pussies.
Wrong all of you. Never apologize to a law breaker. I, as you should know by now am not against the Parent Trigger or Parent Empowerment Act as it is know in California. Parents need this tool against obstructionist districts like LAUSD and bad principals backed up by districts like the criminal organization LAUSD. In every case of Parent Revolution and the Parent Empowerment Act being used in California the signatures were illegally gathered. This is why I have been telling all of you to not talk about what you do not know. Diane you do not know the law or what happened here. If you had emailed me as only 3 did you also could have the law, rules and regulations. If you actually read the regulations and knew what was in the public at both the LAUSD Board Meeting the day of Weigand, I was there, and you listened to the parents detail the illegal goings on with Parent Revolution and if you read the San Bernadino Paper with the descriptions by the Desert Trails parents you would know what I am saying. How do any of you expect to turn this around if you do not know what you are talking about? You are playing right into their hands. Did you notice that Marshall Tuck, CEO of PLAS, is not longer there? We did that. We know what we talk about or say nothing. Do your homework if you want to beat them as we do. If you do not they will kick your XXXXX. I slam it to them in public on the facts and they squirm. That day at LAUSD I am in line and Ben Austin walks by me with his cell phone and I say to Austin “You can’t go break in line ahead of those who have been waiting like your people and SEIU. He took 10 steps and turned around and went and got into the back of the line. Inside, and he waited his turn, when the issue comes up they ask him questions and he will not answer and I then say to him as he is 3 feet away “Are you chicken to answer, I always do, cluck, cluck, cluck, are you chicken to answer” and he never did. Never apologize to these people unless you mess up and make a false claim and you did not even though you do not know this subject as how can you if you never have read the law, rules and regulations. I also have the proposed Florida law. When you go to the Parent Revolution web site hit Parent Trigger and then hit the spot at the bottom that says Rules and Regulations. It is empty. There is also not information about Florida or their video there. Have any of you ever looked at their website? And if now why not? This is how educrats are eating it against the billionaires. You are “Not Prepared.”
Quit with the holier than thou stance already, George. How do you know who has and who has not read the Parent Tricker legislation? I have read it and I think you are very wrong to support it.
Sho are you? And what do you THINK you know about Desert Trails! I have given Dian PLENTY OF TRUTH about what happened so as You said to her… DO NOT speak on what you did not know. Also, if you are one of those people who says “I read the paper so I know what is going on”, you can’t be that intelligent. Even I don’t believe what our paid and bought for media report. If you want to know shat happened at my school talk to parents who are not benefitting (like free immigration and paid jobs at PR) from them stealing our school. Until then, ease don’t be such a hypocrite.
Hooray and beautiful.
I speak out because you show me how. Thank you.
I agree! I hope Diane knows how many of us havebeen motivated to fight this fight bc of her! Thanks Diane 🙂
Thank you, Jill.
Yowie-zowie. Knocked it out of the park, Ms. Ravitch.
Beautiful
You are as eloquent, logical, passionate, and classy as always Dr. Ravitch. As a teacher I am glad you are one of our advocates for quality education. Thank you for saying what many of us would like to say and for being our voice.
I know a lot of folks aren’t fans of Ben Austin, but his letter did make me think a little differently about his motivations. Yes, of course I could be getting tricked. I am totally against the parent trigger policy and think it is highly misguided. Diane explains perfectly why it is a terrible idea. But I do think some (emphasis on some) of the ed reformers are trying newer ideas because they’re so convinced that something new must be done to try and help low income students. I think most, if not all of them are terrible ideas, but I don’t think all of them are out for themselves only. So I think this kind of dialogue is important. There’s the other tactic of just going into counter-attack mode, but I don’t think we get anywhere with that. I hope education policy doesn’t become like the Congress, where people are so polarized that it’s difficult for anything to get done. I hope many in the ed reform camp read these two letters. In my obviously biased opinion, when it comes to the policy itself, Ben Austin can call it parent empowerment all he wants, but in implementation this trigger just seems to do more harm to the students than good.
Zealousness with ample funding leads to destruction. The zealot’s Ivory Tower, top-down “involvement” betrays the arrogance that he/she is The Solution. If Ben Austin believes he is “so convinced that something new must be done,” let him hand over some of that cash to the stakeholders and let them decide how they would prefer to proceed. Of course, doing so might defy the preferences of his funders. Donating the money without inserting themselves into the process of spending it is what philanthropists used to do. Now this new set of “reformer philanthropists” want to enforce their own preferences. So, they purchase the likes of Ben Austin. Sad.
Fair point. I wonder then if lots of these folks might be starting off with good intentions, but then it gets difficult to continue trying to do good when your funders (and hence your livelihood) want a certain set of policies that would eventually destroy public education.
I think some initially want to do good, but they should exit once they realize the reformer agenda is destructive. Diane did so. And former TFAer Gary Rubenstein is another example.
Frankly, I think many stay in “reform” for the money. It’s a LOT of money.
M. Schneider, he’s not a zealot. He’s a mercenary. If Diane or Parents Across America or a teachers’ union paid him more, he’d switch causes in a New York minute. I’ve followed the parent trigger from the beginning and that’s very clear.
Dear Concerned. As one who always want to give others the benefit of the doubt, I have to tell you that when it comes to these Billionaire-Funded Astro-turf groups, I have learned to doubt the benefit. For the reformers, I ask this question: If your “reforms” are so beneficial for children, why is it that the minute you take over a school you change the standards by which you first called the school “failing.” If you were being truthful, then why do you hide behind shell non-profits and deny the funding from the prophets of profit? If your schools are so successful, why do you deny access to the public to the data, the raw, honest data from the schools in order to hide so much? I have learned to doubt of the benefit of ever giving these profiteers the benefit of the doubt. instead, we should be asking really tough questions of them. Finally, we need to ask why they aren’t using the billions from their benefactors to actually improve the conditions children face every day BEFORE they ever arrive at school?
Thank you Dr. Ravitch!! This is why you have given so many of us hope. Not the fake hope of the Obama campaign, but real hope that sometime people will come to their senses.
“Ms. Cobain, if you read this, I hope you can forgive Ben.”
I’m not sure why she should forgive him. If Ms. Cobain gains some sense of closure by offering forgiveness then so be it. Certainly no forgiveness is due for his peace of mind as he has indicated no sense of remorse.
Forgiveness sets the forgiver free. It doesn’t excuse the wrong.
Yes, I know, in the sense of letting go of the resentment not as absolution.
Absolutely. I would want Irma Cobain to be able to move forward with her life after such loss. I certainly would not want her to feel life is over because of Ben Austin’s foolishness.
Diane, This is for your eyes only. Yours is a masterly reply to someone’s argument to pity, that seeks to obfuscate the matter at hand with a diversionary tactic of sentimentalizing a side issue.
You skewer him and remind him that we all have our stories, but the bigger picture is what he is doing as a mere enabler of the darker forces he represents–their puppet!
I think your rebuttal unmasks him for the hypocrisy that he embodies, masquerading as an angel of light, when he’s all about damnation and destruction.
Anyone with a brain in his or her head understands this, and applauds your efforts to silence his transparent attempt to distract the attention from the main point, which is undermining the democratic process of a public school’s autonomy by this cadre of zealots hidebound on having their way by fair means or foul, while wrapping itself in the American flag..
His advisers will no doubt tell him that he should now be silent, given the formidable caliber of your response. If he’s at all wise, he’ll now make a tactical withdrawal, lick his wounds, hate your with a vengeance–which is always a badge of honor in cases like this, and be very circumspect about “messing with the Fonz” in future.
You’ve chastened him, and he’ll be very circumspect in future as to what he and his organization do because theyy” realize that he’s always under surveillance.
Let this issue go, for it could be that he’s just trying to tie you up and distract you from the more important issues at hand. He’s leaving the fight bloodied and beaten, although he’ll naturally spin it differently for home consumption.
Leave him to his sullen silence and defeat, and forget about this minor irritant, in the full recognition of your devastating power of rebuttal, which will give these emissaries from hell pause to mix it up with you again.
Jack Dempsey lives in this formidable lady, who eats dragons for breakfast! Frank Breslin
I love this. ^
“I suggest that educators need respect and thanks for their daily work on behalf of children.”
Thank you Dr. Ravitch for defending hardworking educators against the bullying tactics of the so called educational reformers. Ben Austin ought to be ashamed. We teach our own students to conduct themselves with more compassion than he has displayed.
Diane,
Thank you for your excellent reply to Ben Austin. It sounds like Dallas ISD over and over again. Many dedicated teachers and principals have lost their positions with a hasty and haphazard evaluation process that, if applied to the new superintendent, would have eliminated him at the same time.
In spite of the unusual turnover among people the new DISD Superintendent has hired, he keeps on going. The story of Irma Cobian is repeated over and over in DISD.
Earlier this evening I filed the following complaint with the US Department of Education against Mike Miles, the new DISD Superintendent, due to the exceptionally strange enrollment patterns in his former district:
========================================
In studying the enrollment by grade data from Harrison School District Two covering the years since 2005 there has been what appears to be a normal 26% increase in elementary school enrollment. But, at the same time, there has been an exceptionally suspicious drop of 26% in the high school enrollment over these 6 years that Mike Miles was the Superintendent for Harrison School District Two, from 2006 to 2012.
During this time he received praise and a national reputation for raising test scores in the school district. However, while elementary school enrollment was growing by 26% the high school enrollment was dropping by the same amount, and senior class enrollment was dropping 33%! See this data and data sources at http://schoolarchiveproject.blogspot.com/2013/05/damage-by-mike-miles-in-colorado.html
This enrollment data appears to reinforce allegations repeated often in the press against Mike Miles while he was in Colorado. It needs to be investigated. If students with low test scores were being pushed out of school by any of a multitude of methods, the law was being broken….
Diane, have you seen strange enrollment patterns such as this before, especially when associated with a superintendent who was “miraculously” raising grades in his high schools?
I am changing Diane’s name from “Diane Ravitch” to “Diane Ravishing” after reading her magnificent letter to Mr. Austin.
Bravo, Diane. You speak for all of us like minded.
Diane, thank you for apologizing to Ben Austin for the surprising early comments. Still, no one has answered my question about transferring the principal. The superintendent can even promote her to the district office until things die down. No, principals do not have due process because they work at the whim of the board and can be let go at any time. Something is very weird here. The Desert Trails principal is getting promoted within the Adelanto district. The district did not want to change and harrassed the parents. One of the schools, not DT, at one time in the not too distant past even went down as low as in the 400 for it’s API. It was a new principal who turned that one around, but principals (and all administrators including the supt. in Adelanto) know they can be booted out at any time for no cause and frequently are for asking too many questions, for trying to discipline a teacher who threatens to sue, for just not being “a good fit” suddenly. And all principals are putting themselves on the line safety-wise, are former teachers, and the majority are dedicated. The board, even with a petition, did not need to release this principal! Help me understand.
Excellent reply…..The more you expose these bullies, the less power they will have.
My comment did not take, so I’ll try again. You are, as always, eloquent, passionate, and a fine advocate for teachers like me. I am encouraged that you give us a voice that can not be ignored. Thank you Dr. Ravitch, for all you do towards improving education.
Excellent response!!!!!
Diane, you’re a bigger man than I am.
So to speak…
Exactly: Schools belong to the public. They belong to us. I am so sick of the “failing schools” mantra. What we have is a failing society with the bottom 80% of Americans only controlling 7% of the country’s wealth. This isn’t about schools- it’s about keeping our democracy. The schools are a symptom of a failing democracy where power and wealth are concentrated in the hands of a few.
Diane, you are a warrior! Thank you for being our voice.
My reply to one of Austin’s supporter’s comments, which hasn’t been approved. (My Huffington censor rate is around 50% despite having over 300 “fans” there.)
Mr. Smith, your inability to tell the truth is match only by your unseemly groveling to powerful rich white people. I’ve followed Austin’s trajectory in the corporate reform project ever since he first was hired by Barr and Petruzzi as a consultant for Green Dot for a staggering amount of money. I watched him arrange illegal, closed meetings with the Mayor during city working hours to push charters and PSC. Those incidents were so scandalous, even the charter friendly Daily News published my Op Ed exposing it: http://www.dailynews.com/opinions/ci_13185224 As a corporate ed-reformer, Austin’s salary has almost tripled from when he was a lawyer.
I watched when Ryan Smith ran Barr’s Los Angeles Parent Union (née Small Schools Alliance) into the ground and Petruzzi brought in his crony Austin to take his place. Austin, seeing the astonishing amounts of money being dumped into school privatization, changed the name of LAPU to Parent Revolution (all this is on their 990 forms) and never looked backed. Next he illegally booted Steve Barr of their board. When he worked with ALEC, Bob Huff, Schwarzenegger’s staff, Heartland Institute, and Gloria Romero to craft the disgustingly racist trigger law, we all knew he was going to inflict a lot of damage on poor communities of color. Austin illegally lobbied the SBE after he was thrown off, and later censored for his actions. He later was dropped by the California State Bar for failing to take required ethics courses.
At every turn, Ben Austin has been dishonest, opportunistic, greedy, self-serving, and vicious. Professor Ravitch’s calling him and his unconscionable actions “loathsome” doesn’t begin to address how depraved, despicable, and deplorable Austin is. Who knows which circle of hell is reserved for him, it’s the hell he’s creating for impoverished communities and children of color that I’m concerned with.
Now how about a little disclosure Mr. Bruce William Smith, tell everyone how you are trying to open a privately managed charter school, and how you’ll ingratiate yourself to anyone who might make your lucrative dream come true.
Outstanding review of the situation. I wonder if Ms. Cobian will have an option of filing a defamation of character lawsuit. Certainly, her ability to work as a principal at any other school is seriously compromised. Would the parents look upon her as a failure and disrespect her? Would these parents tell their children to ignore her directives? Will LAUSD evaluate her in a negative way to justify her removal?
For clarification, Mr. Austin’s claim that the Weigand parents did not want a charter, fails to mention the destructive results of the Transformation Model. While the principal must be removed, the staff can also be completely replaced. It is hard to imagine why any teacher would want to work at the “transformed” school. The union contract is gutted and teachers are subject to being removed at the end of each year. Basically, the only similarity to a traditional school is the salary and benefits. Everything else is on the table.
Diane….you only scratched the surface of the goings on with the parent trigger and Parent Revolution. It would take a book to document and report what has already happened. Sadly, we know from Compton and Adelanto, that, if Parent Revolution doesn’t get its desired result, it will employ its pro bono lawyers to file lawsuits against any district that does not approve a trigger event. As in Adelanto, the district could not afford to appeal.
As Austin proudly states, he was responsible for writing and lobbying for passage of the law. It should be no surprise that many flaws remain that allow Parent Revolution to continue to threaten and harrass unknowing parents into signing what they were told would simply get them a better school, while falsely reporting that teachers support the petition.
At some point, someone will record and document Parent Revolution’s true actions. Parents in targeted communities are no match for this multi-million dollar wrecking machine masquerading as a grass roots organization. As you so clearly state, there is NO record of any success from this law. So far, it has only caused disruption, broken promises, and destruction of communities.
I couldn’t have said it better myself. I lived it and continue to live it. There’s really no words to describe the obliteration of our community and morale. The morale of teachers, obviously, but also of students and parents. The ending of this school year is not even bittersweet, just bitter. Students are sad, some parents are still confused, others of us are also sad, teachers have their own adjustments to make with reassignments, and classified and administrators are still in limbo regarding where they will be assigned next fall. Thanks for “helping”, PRev – where are you now? Oh yeah, busy tearing apart several other communities, just like we knew would happen all along.
Ms. Ravitch has no reason to apologize because Ben Austin and his agenda is loathsome. And that is putting it politely.
That…. was… FABULOUS!!!!!
Thank you, Diane! Yes yes yes! TRUTH!!!
Mr. Austin claims that “every teacher who signed that 2011 petition is now gone, and the school has gotten even worse since then.” There are exactly TWO teacher names on that petition. One of those 2 transferred to another school, and the other retired. The remaining names are staff members, 2 of whom are still at Weigand, and 1 State Preschool Teacher who holds neither a Bachelor’s Degree nor a California Teaching Credential.
As to Mr. Austin’s claim that the school has “gotten even worse since then,” does he mean that our staff is worse than in 2011? If Ms. Cobian drove teachers away, why have we all decided to leave with her? I wish Mr. Austin had been there today, our last day of school at Weigand. There were many tearful goodbyes, and some students expressed fear about not knowing anyone next year. In fact, this entire week, students have been asking us teachers whether we are going to be there next year. Their tension is palpable, their desire to seek out that “yes” so evident, even if they cannot express it in words. It broke my heart each time I answered with a “no, I won’t be here next year.” Even more difficult was trying to explain why.
Mr. Austin goes on to say “When I see kids attending schools like Weigand, I see kids who are going through a whole lot more at home than I could have ever imagined as a boy, but who don’t have a safe place where somebody believes in them, supports them and loves them.” Mr. Austin, how DARE you imply that we don’t do all this and MUCH more for our students? Anyone who teaches knows that we teachers willingly give our blood, sweat, and tears every day for our students. This is especially so in a community like Watts. You have NO IDEA how much of our personal and family lives we have sacrificed for our students at Weigand. When have you ever set foot on our campus? I have taught at Weigand for 11 years, and let me tell you, the staff at Weigand these last 3 years is without a doubt the most professional, intelligent, and passionate group of teachers I have ever had the privilege of working with in my 16 years as an LAUSD educator. Most of those teachers were recruited by Ms. Cobian herself, because she knows talent when she sees it. Perhaps our test scores dropped because we were actually TEACHING under Ms. Cobian’s leadership, and not simply drilling for the next assessment.
We left Weigand today relieved that this Parent Revolution nightmare is over for us, crushed for our students, and determined to help others FIGHT against your agenda.
— Fabiola Banuelos, dedicated veteran teacher, Stanford University graduate, who will go where I am better appreciated.
Ms. Banuelos,
I read your post and can literally feel your pain. I am a parent at Desert Trails, but my children have been there since they started Kindergarten. I have formed great relationships with most of them, even those my children never had as instructors. My children have anxiety like I have never seen and many of our students have broken down at school also. We have one more week to go and you can feel the anxiety and hurt in the air. Students are on edge about who they will know at their new school (whether they are transferring to another in our district or staying at the charter) and many parents feel confused or lost (we have a high transiency rate, so many newcomers simply can’t grasp which way is which). Like you, many of our teachers have been at our school for a number of years and have expressed sadness about not getting to watch some of their students “grow up” as they progress through the grades like they have done with other students in the past.
Ben Austin sits back with his detonator, destroys communities under the guise of “helping parents”, but we all [unfortunately] live with the aftermath and know the truth. Only a soulless being could have any part of his organization, whether it be as a funder or organizer. I don’t know how he can possibly have any mirrors in his million dollar home(s) – I know if it were me, I would not be able to face my own reflection.
Masterful and inspirational. Diane, you have crafted the words that many if us would love to say. We are so fortunate to have such an eloquent, no-nonsense, truth-seeker such as yourself who takes those to task who would continually damage our schools for their own political power. The only thing worse than a person using his position of power and influence to wrongfully bring another down is the person who stands to personally profit from doing so.
[…] Professor Ravitch responded with grace and dignity, and her cogent dismantling of everything Austin stands for is nothing short of breathtaking. Her piece is My Reply to Ben Austin’s Open Letter to Me. […]
Attention wealthy white Ben Austin, you are NOT a victim and neither is your neoliberal organization Parent Revolution. http://j.mp/13keUB3
The privatizing of public education is a scam that’s being foisted upon communities across the country under the false guise of “civil rights.” Privatization is a neo-liberal business plan that’s all about opening doors for entrepreneurs and corporations to feed at the $600B a year trough of public funding. It’s about making profits. It is not about doing what’s in the best interests of children, parents and communities. Therefore, I’m with Ravitch on this. I, too, feel that all of these corporations, foundations and the so-called education “reformers” they sponsor to do their privatization bidding, including Austin –who got nearly $4M in one year alone just from Gates & the Waltons– deserve a special place reserved for them in hell. In any other arena, dividing communities, discrediting and firing employees and shuttering public services, just so they can be replaced by privately managed organizations, would be very clearly seen as strategies that benefit those who stand to profit. Only in education does privatization come with the inaccurate label of good intentions to serve the needy, because that’s the marketing ploy for selling such destruction to people. It’s a bait and switch, too: They don’t tell parents that once they give their school away, they’ve also given up their democratic right to representation at the school.
Austin needs to take that ethics course the bar said he was lacking, follow a moral compass and demonstrate contrition, if he seeks redemption for his despicable self-serving actions.
Many – if not most – of these so-called “reformers” worship at the altar of “free” markets. They do so despite the lessons of history (the Great Depression and the Great Recession being two prime examples in the U.S. alone within the last 83 years).
And they do so despite still unfolding market-rigging scandals in the London Interbank Offered Rate (LIBOR) – which affects several hundred trillion dollars of assets and loans – and the ISDAfix, which is “a benchmark number used around the world to calculate the prices of interest-rate swaps.”
The emerging evidence is that some of the world’s biggest banks and trading companies gamed a “market” of some nearly $400 trillion of these trades, and not in favor of the public. And not surprisingly, some of the very same players (corporate and individual “investors”) were engaged in both the LIBOR and ISDAfix scandals.
To the “reformers” none of this seems to matter. They disregard it, in the same way they ignore the fact that their brand of “reform” is constructed on two crass mistruths: (1) that there is a public education “crisis” in the U.S., and (2) that American “economic competitiveness” is dependent on public school “reform.” Both are demonstrably false.
As I’ve noted repeatedly, the data (which these folks claim to care about) have shown and continue to show that there is no general “crisis” in public education in the United States.
The Sandia Report (Journal of Educational Research, May/June, 1993), published in the wake of A Nation at Risk, concluded that:
* “..on nearly every measure we found steady or slightly improving trends.”
* “youth today [the 1980s] are choosing natural science and engineering degrees at a higher rate than their peers of the 1960s.”
* “business leaders surveyed are generally satisfied with the skill levels of their employees, and the problems that do exist do not appear to point to the k-12 education system as a root cause.”
* “The student performance data clearly indicate that today’s youth are achieving levels of education at least as high as any previous generation.”
Some of the critics cherry-pick international test data to buttress their call for “reform.” I suppose if you’re willing to cheat and steal and game the system for your own profit at the expense of others, all the while calling for tax cuts for yourself and cuts for public programs, then you’re also more than willing to lie about a set of numbers if it leads to your continued economic interests.
Reading is considered to be a key to learning and school achievement. Below are PISA reading scores (disaggregated for the U.S., which has an incredibly large, diverse, and increasingly poor student population:
Average score, reading literacy, PISA, 2009:
[United States, Asian students 541]
Korea 539
Finland 536
[United States, white students 525]
Canada 524
New Zealand 521
Japan 520
Australia 515
Netherlands 508
Belgium 506
Norway 503
Estonia 501
Switzerland 501
Poland 500
Iceland 500
United States (overall) 500
Sweden 497
Germany 497
Ireland 496
France 496
Denmark 495
United Kingdom 494
Hungary 494
OECD average 493
Portugal 489
Italy 486
Slovenia 483
Greece 483
Spain 481
Czech Republic 478
Slovak Republic 477
Israel 474
Luxembourg 472
Austria 470
[United States, Hispanic students 466]
Turkey 464
Chile 449
[United States, black students 441]
Mexico 425
Bob Somerby (at The Daily Howler) pointed out the recent Trends in International Math and Science Study (TIMSS) test results found that “In eighth-grade science…Massachusetts outscored every major nation which took the test, including the Asian tigers Taiwan, Korea and Japan.” Somerby noted that “Our schools face tremendous demographic challenges due to our brutal racial history and due to our immigration practices…But good lord! As the percentage of low-income and minority kids keeps growing, American test scores keep getting better. We think that’s a striking good-news story—but the plutocrats and their tribunes don’t want you to hear or enjoy it. “ Indeed.
Overall, the U.S. scores stack up…the problem is in schools with high concentrations of poverty. Indeed, PISA scores (the scores usually cited by public education critics) are quite sensitive to income level. If one disaggregates U.S. scores the problems becomes clearer: the more poverty a school has, the lower its scores. The presumed do-gooders seem to think that more “competition” and ambitiousness will cause the schools to fix the effects of poverty. Those effects are pernicious.
A technical report from the American Academy of Pediatrics on the damaging effects of toxic stress in children – the kind of stress found in high-poverty urban areas – finds that such stress involves “activation of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenocortical axis and the sympathetic-adrenomedullary system, which results in increased levels of stress hormones, such as corticotropin-releasing hormone (CRH), cortisol, norepinephrine, and adrenaline. These changes co-occur with a network of other mediators that include elevated inflammatory cytokines and the response of the parasympathetic nervous system, which counterbalances both sympathetic activation and inflammatory responses.”
The result is that “toxic stress in young children can lead to less outwardly visible yet permanent changes in brain structure and function….chronic stress is associated with hypertrophy and overactivity in the amygdala and orbitofrontal cortex, whereas comparable levels of adversity can lead to loss of neurons and neural connections in the hippocampus and medial PFC. The functional consequences of these structural changes include more anxiety related to both hyperactivation of the amygdala and less top-down control as a result of PFC atrophy as well as impaired memory and mood control as a consequence of hippocampal reduction.”
In plain speak, alleviating poverty and its pernicious effects, and providing children with high quality environments before they get to school, and following up with health and academic and social policy programs while they are in school, results not only in high-quality education but also in a high-quality citizenry….and in promoting the general welfare of the nation. This is surely not what the “reformers” want. It might – will – require a cessation to the gaming of the “markets” and the tax system.
The public education system in a democratic republic is supposed to develop and nurture democratic character and citizenship. That’s the kind of reform we need.
And it’s exactly the kind of reform the “reformers” detest.
Brilliant. Diane, any chance you can repost the above?
Excellent, Democracy!
Yes, LG and Diane, I second the request to repost this. I just wish there were some citations and/or links to the sources of that info, but maybe Democracy can add them if it’s posted again. (I know that I hesitate to add more than one link in my posts, because then the message gets held for approval, so I can understand why they were omitted.).
Democracy,
Those PISA scores are quite illuminating. Thanks for providing them. For math and science there are two international assessments that are frequently sited and they measure different things. As a result, countries rank differently depending on which assessment is referenced. According to The Brown Center Chalkboard, Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study (TIMSS) “is curriculum-based, reflecting the skills and knowledge taught in schools.” Program for International Student Assessment (PISA) assesses “whether students can apply what they’ve learned to solve ‘real world’ problems.” I will attempt to provide a link.
http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/brown-center-chalkboard/posts/2013/01/09-timss-pisa-loveless
@ Cosmic: thank you…I did cite the Sandia Report’s source, but did not link it since it’s behind a pay wall. And I did cite the technical report from the American Academy of Pediatrics, and the World Economic Forum’s rankings, and PISA 2009 reading scores. I have links for all of them…if Diane wishes to repost the comment.
@ LG: thank you for the kind words.
@ hrh88: there are main things to remember about international test scores” (1) they are imprecise, and as you mention, depending on the test used, may well assess different things, and (2) the testing of 15-year-olds has virtually nothing to do with American “economic competitiveness.”
I’m happy to provide Diane with an amended, links-added comment.
…TWO main things to remember….
Good brain science, bad economics. “Many – if not most – of these so-called “reformers” worship at the altar of “free” markets. They do so despite the lessons of history (the Great Depression and the Great Recession being two prime examples in the U.S. alone within the last 83 years).” The actual lessons of history are that government interference in the market place both produced both depressions and retarded their recovery.
If those who support public education would just stop attacking capitalism as if they were communists, those of us who pay the taxes from capitalist activity might be inclined to listen to them.
By test scores, there would appear to be no “real” crisis in public education. By education for democratic character and citizenship, the public schools have certainly failed egregiously, as the election, twice no less, of an incompetent charlatan proves. Hardly any kid now understands the real America of freedom and opportunity under limited government.
As long as the public school cadre of teachers and their defenders try to sell socialism as the solution to anything, that part of the population which sees big government as the main distorter of markets and the main threat to freedom are not going to agree, and thus not support a public school monopoly, even though for poor children government schools of the sort that “democracy” advocates might work a lot better than the sink or swim situation of poor parenting which apparently so many poor kids are subjected to.
The utter contempt of public school supporters for anything “business” prevents that portion of the population which MUST make its living in and by the marketplace from taking the proponents of central-planning-government-should-do-everything seriously. They claim to want to do better for the kids, the poor kids especially, but out here in red state America we see it as a communist power grab, and thus continue to support charters, vouchers, and home schooling as a means of removing kids from the influence of the false and unworkable philosophy of socialism. If you liked Prussian state socialism, if you like USSR communism, keep pushing it. Just don’t pretend that that isn’t your true objective, to have the liberal radical elite running everything for our own good, when, except for essential services, Americans want to be left alone.
Aah, Harlan…..still looking for that mythical communist behind every tree.
In a democratic republic, there should exist government “of the people, by the people, for the people.”
What is it about popular sovereignty, creating a “more perfect Union,” and promoring the general welfare of society that you hate so much?
The words of your principals are exactly right. Are you claiming that that’s the kind of government we now have? That it is working for the general welfare of the people? Puhleeeze. A dragging economic recovery because of uncertainty over the excessive debt. Kenysian corruption of thought in economics (think stimulus and boondoggles)? Corrupt State Department in leaving an American Ambassador to be killed in Benghazi. Covering up their incompetence by deliberate lying on the Sunday talk shows. Putting the person sent out to lie, Susan Rice, in position as the National Security Advisor. Using the IRS to target conservative groups (like True the Vote) in a successful effort to suppress conservative voting while screaming bloody murder that asking for a photo ID was suppressing the black and hispanic vote? That’s how you socialists work. You rig the elections if you can, when honest elections are supposed to be the backbone of democracy. But to Democrats, that is not the case. For them elections are to steal. Your hypocrisy is disgusting.
I’d call what we have: ‘excessive government and taxation imposed on the people, by the unelected bureaucratic hoards, against the real interests of the people.’ You socialists are not mythical. You captured the Democrat party in 1972 and here we are enduring your fecklessness, mismanagement, and incompetence. If you don’t put your real name on your posts, I will assume you have a reason to hide your identity. One reason might be that your views are so collectivist and statist that your current employer might just object to them, and like the gutless cowards socialists are, you have good reason to conceal your IRL identities because you want to take over the country even more than you have already and rule the common citizens for your own personal benefit. But, you’re not honest, and so won’t post under your real name.
I don’t believe that an ethics course could even begin to crack sking of the self-important Austin. Sociopath is more the proper term for Austin who thrills in destroying others all under the guise of caring for the kids. The only thing Austin cares about is his own monetary gain.
BRAVO!!!!! Diane, well said and well written, well aimed, well appreciated by all those who understand the commitment and sacrifice of the caliber of such a professional as Principal Irma Cobian. NJ applauds her!
Diane,
Incredible testimony for a dedicated public school principal who was proving, day by day, action step by action step, to be a visceral threat to corporate reformers.
Clearly Irma Corbain is a huge hero who was working collaboratively and in an inspirational fashion with her teaching staff to lift up her students’ achievement while building a strong, vibrant caring teaching/learning community. Children, educators, administration, parents and community members see her as a beacon of light for their children and their futures.
This is why the corporate reformers decided she had to be removed; “excised,” would be a more fitting word, with scalpel like precision, no matter the carnage in their path for our children, their school community, their teachers, their futures…
Any one who is a threat to the current, self described # 1 hedge fund investment opportunity, the public education “market” whose yearly budget rivals our national defense budget, is on the corporate ed reformers’ “Hit List;” principals, school board members, teachers, parents, legislators… it is a “strip mining” mentality with no regard for the outcome for our children.
I hope Irma Corbain files a lawsuit, sooner rather than later.
I remain convinced that our only recourse is the courts through civil action lawsuits.
The other angle that is vital is a public media campaign/documentary that gets to the heart of the real stories happening in real time in every community across the country, as our children and their educational opportunities are sacrificed for corporate gain.
How about CEO’s for Public Education?
That shouldn’t be an oxymoron in the United States of America.
Diane,
While I think parents need a say in their own child’s education, which means NOW and not 10 years from now, I have to agree with you on several points.
First, the fact that this legislation is referred to as the parent “trigger” option is offensive. I don’t know who placed that title on it; you seem to suggest that the people who support it did. If so, that is an idiotic thing to do (and I rarely use that word).
Second, I think it is an excellent point that parents at any school at the current moment probably should not have the ability to change the school to a charter school for all future generations. That really is something that should be voted on by all taxpayers (that is how democracy works). That said, parents need some way to get their child a good education if it is important to them. However, things like school vouchers and schools of choice get knocked down, too, by the same people who oppose this parent trigger option. When parents want options, you have to stop fighting them tooth and nail at every turn; this is where it leads.
I hear a lot of commenters who are against any type of reform whatsoever talk about these things making lab rats out of the children. But isn’t that exactly what a school is doing when it says that we should keep our kids in public school and to trust them to make it better? While PSs work to make it better (4 years in the case of the school in question), a whole generation of kids went through receiving an education ranked 15th worst out of 500. Maybe that is the best that can be expected given the socioeconomic conditions in that neighborhood. If so, then they have to say so. If not, then something has to change.
There is a “flaw” in your ointment:
“I think it is an excellent point that parents at any school at the current moment probably should not have the ability to change the school to a charter school for all future generations. That really is something that should be voted on by all taxpayers (that is how democracy works).”
In one statement, you are giving power to parents, yet in another you are giving it to the tax payers. Not every tax payer is a parent. Is it fair to empower only a portion of the population with a decision as to how to utilize the tax money of the entire population? School funding does not belong to the parents–it belongs to the community. Thus a Parent Trigger law is undemocratic and should not exist.
The feedback parents give to their child’s educators is important for partnerships in educating the very children from said families, however giving these same entities complete control over the nature of the institution that would serve the community is wrong. The majority of parents will do what they are supposed to and expected to do–take care of their own children’s needs first. The fate of “other people’s children” (OPPs) will always be secondary despite good intentions. There is just a natural bias to see things through one’s own personal lens. This is another reason why one unelected group alone should never be in charge of making decisions that affect the whole community such as choosing which type of school EVERY child should have. There will always be OPPs whose parents are not as pro-active and who will lose out to the voices of the most involved.
If you truly mean to champion democracy, be very careful of your wording.
LG,
I think I agreed with you that the decision to eliminate a school belongs to the community, whether they have children in the school or not, because they may well have children in the school at some point in the future. Unfortunately, those that have already seen their children go through school all too often stop caring about schools and will vote down anything that might cost them a little money.
But, I do believe that parents should have choices (not just elite, private school, cost prohibitive choices) when they are unsatisfied with the public school that happens to be located close to them for their children WHILE their children are in school. Anti reform types oppose those choices as well. I’m not sure what “wording” I used that was a bastardization of democracy.
But let us also be fair about the equivalent of OPC (of course parents want what is best for their children, and you would like to think that in most cases that would also be what is best for everyone else’s children). Teachers want what is best for them, too, regardless of whether that is best for teachers down the road, good teachers with less seniority, current students or those “future” students. That is also human nature. That is why we supposedly have school boards and boards of education and state and federal education overseers. To make sure it all works best for everyone. How’s that working right now? You do not get to this level of acrimony without there being some underlying problems. You think the problems are not what the other side is making them out to be, correct? But the only fault you are willing to find is with rich people and the plight of poor people. This ignores a lot of the other problems out there.
Absolutely parents have a choice–a choice of which community they live in and therefore which schools their children attend.
However, those in extreme poverty situations do not have the personal capital to “get out” of their communities when they fail. That is when the state can and should get involved to provide for the community what it cannot provide for itself. This does not mean providing opportunities for populations to segregate themselves from “other people’s problems” creating lotteries for those lucky enough to get into a school where these “OPPs” (or “OPCs”) are. By blaming the schools, one ignores the deeper problem: Broken communities. Step in and help the community–stop using the schools as a scapegoat for community ills and an entre for private interests to come and “rescue” a handful of children while making profits or enjoying tax write-offs for doing so.
In the case of people who are NOT living in extreme poverty, they have the choice to leave–yes, anyone can downsize a household to make ends meet and move to communities with schools that are terrific. There still are plenty of communities that are both affordable and have excellent schools in this country. [No, down-sizing is never easy on a family, and for many, a job may require a certain location of domicile, however, people do what they need to do to have the things they need even if that means not having all the goods and services they want–but that is a topic of another discussion.] It’s when school choice is used as an argument for living in one community but schooling in a non-community, more exclusive institution where “the common folk” do not ALL get the chance to enter that is anti-democratic. Who decides which children in the community are “worthy” of this kind of exclusive schooling–on the dime of EVERY tax payer–and which children must be left behind? Do you truly believe we should be giving “choice” of how to use community funds only to a part of the population, i.e. those who are parents? I do care about other people’s “problems,” but I prefer to refer to all my community’s children as “my responsibility” after a fashion since I am part of the same community. These “OPPs” or “OPCs” (you decide–they are both derogatory terms) are human beings and while part of the community presently, hopefully they will remain here in the future when I am retired and perhaps beholden to them to contribute to my community positively so that I may live peacefully in my old age. Not every person will make decisions with other people in mind including those with a present personal interest that may differ from what’s best for the community as a whole.
“But let us also be fair about the equivalent of OPC (of course parents want what is best for their children, and you would like to think that in most cases that would also be what is best for everyone else’s children).”
You can hope, but I’ve seen bias with the best of intentions.
“Teachers want what is best for them, too, regardless of whether that is best for teachers down the road, good teachers with less seniority, current students or those ‘future’ students. That is also human nature. That is why we supposedly have school boards and boards of education and state and federal education overseers. To make sure it all works best for everyone. How’s that working right now?”
In many, many communities, it is working just fine, yet reformers have been rapidly replicating laws like viruses that seek to destroy the voice of the veteran experts in education by perpetuating the myth of “Failing American Schools” and giving incredible powers to non-educators from the business world who are trying to buy their way into taking public funds for “providing a service” as a “solution” to a problem that is falsely touted as “wide-spread” in this country. If you believe that “choice” does not invite corruption from non-expert interests, you are fooling yourself. Do the math: Who stand in the way of profits? Veteran employees. I don’t know about you, but I would not want a novice surgeon alone in the OR cutting me open without veteran surgical staff members present. Experience is earned and those experts should be compensated accordingly. Ask any senior partner of a corporation or law firm, and you will find the same answer except when it comes to veteran educators. Something is wrong with this picture.
“You do not get to this level of acrimony without there being some underlying problems. You think the problems are not what the other side is making them out to be, correct? But the only fault you are willing to find is with rich people and the plight of poor people. This ignores a lot of the other problems out there.”
I do not believe you can find an educator who believes there is no room for improvement. Learning is a process, and a school is the epitome of an environment of improving dispositions. Teachers and principals see first-hand how human people are and, by extension, how human their institutions are. Educators are constantly modifying and adjusting their craft because they seek to improve their art for the benefit of their present learners. The problems you speak of so ambiguously need to be addressed for validity and improvement. This must be the responsibility of all the players: educators, parents, and school board members as community representatives. If there are larger problems, it is the responsibility of these parties to prevent them from becoming bigger ones that will harm the community. It is the invasion of non-public parties in these equations that has become the biggest threat to our American schools, yet these people are the very ones who cater to your “choice” stance. Keep these edu-preneurs out of my pockets and out my community’s classrooms, please.
LG,
Not every, or even most, people have the ability to choose whatever school district they want in which to purchase or rent a home. Further, you can purchase a home based on the school, only to see significant changes between the time you purchase and the time to send children there. In fact, I live in an area that merged school districts with the promise that the local elementary school would always remain open. It was torn down (the opposite of staying open) and 20 years later there is still animosity in the school district because of it. But all that aside, why should I have to move to have my child get a great education? If all teachers are dedicated, well-trained, vetted, committed, etc., why should it matter so much where you live (outside of those extremely poor districts)? I think that what many of us hoped for with the Common Core standards (not the tests, I don’t advocate for the week long testing) was to have a good standard to aim for regardless of which community, county, or state you live in.
It might interest you that In Michigan, the problem of the “haves” and the “have nots” was supposed to be mitigated by the fact that the state collects school tax dollars from each municipality and then redistributes them back equally to all school districts based on student enrollment. So, those Detroit area schools which were struggling were supposed to be lifted up with more money. Didn’t happen. There are some problems where throwing money at the schools will not solve the problem; you’ve outlined a bunch of them. But there still exists problems outside of the inner-city schools.
Teachers are not held accountable to the same degree as other professionals. You kill someone or leave them less than they were, and you can have your physicians license revoked and probably pay a hefty legal expense. Let a child fall through the cracks, thus potentially setting them on a course for life failure, and the equivalent of that does not necessarily happen. Plus, many of you would seek to take away any and all choices a parent may have to try something else short of sending that child to expensive private school (i.e., downsizing through giving up family vacations, cable, cell phones, a night at the movies) or moving (not very reasonable in this economy). If I don’t like my doctor I can choose a different doctor. When that is what you can do with a child’s education, then you can convince me that “real” choices are available.
You want to know what is undemocratic? Take tax dollars, build schools, hire teachers, pick curriculum all without the input of any of the people who are using the facilities; make it extremely difficult to replace ineffective teachers or administrators; ignore or marginalize parents when they have problems with the curriculum or teachers or administrators or bullies (you name it); and then with your powerful union try and fight every last effort for parents to try and do what they think is best for their children. That is not to say that I agree with the Parent Trigger option, but I have not heard one positive word about any idea to give a choice.
LLC asked for specific suggestions for a way to improve education. Let’s take the schools that are operating in areas of extreme violence and poverty out of the equation. I think the only way to solve that problem is to take the most promising children and send them to better schools and then in the meantime work on keeping those families from living in poverty and thus improving their potential for a good education. That is something that is almost completely outside the realm of public education. It has to be society willing to take responsibility for caring for the poor instead of blaming them.
But as for the rest of the schools, I would like to see schools within schools (middle school and high school) and complete specialized schools at the elementary school level where children can be grouped according to their learning style and/or the preference of their families (which is typically going to align with their learning style). This one size fits all approach is ridiculous.
“Not every, or even most, people have the ability to choose whatever school district they want in which to purchase or rent a home.”
You’re telling me. I was homeless for 10 days because I could not yet move into the only home I could afford after life changes prevented me from staying in the home I knew and loved. With all other family out of town, it was the kindness of close friends who provided a place to live for a short while. You manage when you have to. It is hardly ever easy, but you figure it out. I was fortunate to grow up in a small three-bedroom house with one bathroom for the five of us in a modest neighborhood with great schools. My parents never had any money for anything but bills, but we managed. We figured it out. The problem today is, outside of those living in poverty conditions, people want far more than they need and they feel they must have specific living conditions in order to get these things. The success of the tech companies in a global recession is all the proof we need to see how people spend their money on more than they need. Though lifestyles are changing there, go to Europe and see how most people live—most people who are your economic counterparts. You will see living conditions that you won’t see here unless in the inner cities: i.e. large families living in one or two room residences, adult children sharing bedrooms with their parents, etc. We live like kings and queens here and yet complain about it. The people who live within their means may always have less than they want, but they live.
“Further, you can purchase a home based on the school, only to see significant changes between the time you purchase and the time to send children there.”
True, however, you CAN be the watchdog to keep your community from failing its people by getting involved in keeping the school a good place for the children of the community.
“In fact, I live in an area that merged school districts with the promise that the local elementary school would always remain open. It was torn down (the opposite of staying open) and 20 years later there is still animosity in the school district because of it.”
Did the deterioration of the school happen quickly or was it a gradual situation? We need to be on top of the changes in our communities to prevent us from losing their schools. We have all seen it happen, but what have we learned in order to stop it? We have learned nothing from these horror stories if we do nothing about these situations while they are happening. Constant vigilance to gradual changes prevents issues down the road. True our economy tanked which certainly added to the problems, but the people who have caused these problems were not being watched. Now this same cohort is infiltrating our schools trying to make a buck on the economic conditions it created. It’s the top-down, emergency changes that communities feel they have the least control over—and these are the changes that educators are fighting to prevent, especially since many of them have already been found to do harm and not the good that we were promised they’d do. Sound familiar?
“But all that aside, why should I have to move to have my child get a great education? If all teachers are dedicated, well-trained, vetted, committed, etc., why should it matter so much where you live (outside of those extremely poor districts)?”
Your priorities may change—it is your prerogative to move if you want something more than your community can offer. You cannot take the “prima donna” stance that everything will always be there for you without you working for it to stay. The problem is that often people want something better than that to which they are willing to contribute. The McMansions that overshadow my school building are filled with families where one parent works while the other is looking for things to do all day. In some even more affluent communities around here, the houses are bigger, the incomes even larger, and the complaints of why they have to pay so much in taxes are even more numerous. I say, “Why do you need to live in a house that is so enormous, you can effectively ignore your family for days on end and still be in the same place. You choose to live in a small estate, yet you refuse to pay for it. That is your choice.” This is the “I won’t downsize” mentality of some communities who are on board with getting more but giving less so they can have more on a personal level. Nothing in this society is free—we pay for the level of economy in the communities in which we live, but so many people seem to forget that. And before you say that all teachers should make the same amount of money regardless of where they teach, keep in mind they have to live somewhere and have commuting expenses, too. You can never pay teachers what they are truly worth, so you partially compensate them with salary and the rest is part of the package to ease their living expenses. People complain that these are perks, but actually they are part of the total compensation for working there. These group benefits make it affordable for the communities to fund and attractive for the individuals you wish to stay working in your community schools.
“I think that what many of us hoped for with the Common Core standards (not the tests, I don’t advocate for the week long testing) was to have a good standard to aim for regardless of which community, county, or state you live in.”
The standards are a nice idea in theory, but depending on the community and level of parental commitment, not all children have the same entry-level knowledge and skill level to even operate within the confines of what the standards expect. There are so many children whose knowledge base is so far behind, they will never catch up despite who is teaching them, short of a private tutor. Can you fund private tutors for every child whose family life puts him at a disadvantage? No. His school can attempt to work miracles with him, but the schools can never replace good nutrition, parental care, health care, emotional well-being, home stability, etc. These are community issues that set some children apart from others. The standards will further expose these children’s shortcomings and in effect blame the schools for them. Then the schools will be closed, the staff fired, and an edu-preneur will enter the picture to “save the day” only to find out how difficult it is to get the same results with these children as with children with the advantage of a stronger community and a more stable home and health life. Then these alleged “new, better” schools will close, after the profits have been put in the bank, the children will be tossed around to another school, and so on, and so on. Meanwhile, the real root of the problem is not being addressed which is not the schools—it is the communities. The standards will do nothing to help the child who needs more than just a school to “save” him. Nice pipe dream, though, isn’t it?
“It might interest you that In Michigan, the problem of the ‘haves’ and the ‘have nots’ was supposed to be mitigated by the fact that the state collects school tax dollars from each municipality and then redistributes them back equally to all school districts based on student enrollment. So, those Detroit area schools which were struggling were supposed to be lifted up with more money. Didn’t happen.”
Ask yourself why. AGAIN, the schools can only do so much. Children living in conditions that do not allow for emotional, mental, and physical stability will never be saved by a school. However, that is not to say that UNDER-funding schools with at-risk children will solve anything either. These children obviously need more than their counterparts in stronger communities do. The folly is believing that you can fix the community by making the school into something you believe it isn’t instead of going to the root of the problem—the communities themselves. Start there and your schools will follow.
“There are some problems where throwing money at the schools will not solve the problem; you’ve outlined a bunch of them. But there still exists problems outside of the inner-city schools.”
Of course, as I’ve mentioned before, there is always room for improvement, but the “crisis” that reformers are hoping you believe in is a fallacy. American schools, by and large, are NOT failing. There are pockets of situations where schools are dangerous places to be, where teachers are relegated to being law enforcers because safety is the number one concern, where neighborhoods are riddled with crime and gang violence that spills into the schools, etc., but these are NOT the majority of schools. Reformers want to change every school and they are using the “superman” argument to do it by justifying their tactics by citing inner city issues. Newsflash: Reformers want to privatize to make money for their cronies by taking public funds EVERYWHERE. The inner city schools are the excuse and the starting point. It’s already happening.
“Teachers are not held accountable to the same degree as other professionals. You kill someone or leave them less than they were, and you can have your physicians license revoked and probably pay a hefty legal expense. Let a child fall through the cracks, thus potentially setting them on a course for life failure, and the equivalent of that does not necessarily happen.”
You make a blanket statement based on just what experience exactly? It is most difficult to connect exactly who did what to the “child” who “fell through the cracks”—another ridiculous catch-all phrase riddled with hyperbole—by simply placing blame on a teacher or a principal. A child is given opportunities in grade school to achieve. Put together a child’s individual learning style with his strengths/weaknesses, attitude, work ethic, support systems, living conditions, health, etc., and you have a cocktail of influences on his learning that fall outside of a teacher’s control. Yet, the mantra of those whom you apparently listen to is that the teacher and the child’s school are the ONLY influences on a child’s learning. Preposterous, out-of-touch, and utterly ridiculous. I am appalled that in this day age, seemingly intelligent adults are still falling for this garbage. If teachers are so powerful, they should be paid like millionaires. Alas, no teacher has the kind of power to counteract all the negative variables of influence on a child’s learning. I cannot tell you how many children in primary grades come to school having not slept enough the night before or who are sick or hungry, and this is in the McMansion neighborhood in which I teach. I would imagine there are countless other negative influences on children whose families struggle financially. If you are going to deny that there are many, many, many factors that affect student learning outside of teachers and their schools, I suggest you go on and get your teaching degree and certification, find a school district that will hire you, teach for the length of time one needs to attain tenure and see for yourself how much absolute control you really have over a child’s learning. Put your money where your mouth is or at least educate yourself in reality and not conjecture.
“Plus, many of you would seek to take away any and all choices a parent may have to try something else short of sending that child to expensive private school (i.e., downsizing through giving up family vacations, cable, cell phones, a night at the movies) or moving (not very reasonable in this economy). If I don’t like my doctor I can choose a different doctor. When that is what you can do with a child’s education, then you can convince me that “real” choices are available.”
Doctor decisions directly affect a person’s health. A doctor can administer a drug in the blink of an eye that can kill a person. Do you seriously think that a teacher can do this irreparable harm in an instant? Are you seriously comparing teachers to doctors in this way?
“You want to know what is undemocratic? Take tax dollars, build schools, hire teachers, pick curriculum all without the input of any of the people who are using the facilities;…”
Tell you what…since you compared teachers to doctors, why not choose the medical staff and treatments that your local hospital and doctor’s offices use without their professional input. After all, you know what’s best because you utilize their services. You seem to think you know what’s best since you utilize the services of the schools. Why not spread this incredible “user-knowledge” to all aspects of the service industry. You know best.
“…make it extremely difficult to replace ineffective teachers or administrators;…”
It should be difficult to replace someone on a whim in any job. Who has the knowledge to determine who is ineffective? You? Based on what credentials? This is like saying that I should be able to fire police officers because crime exists, and as a citizen, I deserve better. I KNOW what it takes to do the job because I am a recipient of the community service.
“…ignore or marginalize parents when they have problems with the curriculum or teachers or administrators or bullies (you name it);…”
First off, who has problems with the curriculum and why? Are these people experts in teaching? Are these legitimate concerns? Who has problems with a teacher? Has there been an attempt at working out the issues on every level from the teacher to the principal to the upper administration? Has the parent consulted the child study team? Is there an ongoing issue with a large percentage of the population or is it just one child? Is it an emotional issue? What role does the child play in the situation? Bullies are to be reported and dealt with—many states have stricter laws about bullying now. You cannot always fix EVERY single situation—there is only so much that can be done, but no school should sit back and allow continual bully behavior to go on. Parents have plenty of outlets to get the assistance needed. If there are seemingly no advocates within the district itself, take your issue to the county and then state level. Find someone to hear your case—do not color EVERY school the same and certainly do not color every educator as uncaring, crass, indifferent, etc. Saying those things is extreme and unfair.
“…and then with your powerful union try and fight every last effort for parents to try and do what they think is best for their children.”
Now we get to the heart of it. Watch Fox News? Neo-liberal? Anti-union? Whatever your “affiliation” with the “truth” as you see it, know that teachers unions exist to protect teachers from unlawful employment practices AND to advocate for schools. More unions on local and state levels are involved in child advocacy than the press would care to report. Spend a little time on some of the state union websites to get an idea of how unions are partnering with parents and communities to help the schools. There are philanthropic funds, union-sponsored community events, grants available for teachers to innovate in the classroom, teacher-training programs, all of which benefit the schools. The most important asset to a strong school system is its staff—by protecting a dedicated staff, YOUR children get a better education. No one wants to work in a system where they are abused, mistreated, and otherwise disenfranchised. Children’s emotions run high—having stable situations for the adults who teach them take the burden off of these people to live so that they may do their jobs with the same passion and dedication that the job demands. You want the truth? Do some research instead of spewing the talking points of those who are influential enough to control the message. Without teachers unions, you would have teachers constantly moving from job to job looking for something better. How is THAT good for your community? It isn’t.
“That is not to say that I agree with the Parent Trigger option, but I have not heard one positive word about any idea to give a choice.”
That’s because “choice” is a misnomer. There will always be those who need to be protected from their lack of convictions. By allowing some people to take community funds to “go and get it,” you are leaving innocent children whose families do not have the wherewithal to do the same for their children behind in the neighborhoods. These innocents have no advocates—obviously, a person who thinks it’s ok to segregate populations based on personal choices only cares about his own and OPPs or OPCs mean very little to him. THAT is why choice is a bad idea.
“LLC asked for specific suggestions for a way to improve education. Let’s take the schools that are operating in areas of extreme violence and poverty out of the equation. I think the only way to solve that problem is to take the most promising children and send them to better schools and then in the meantime work on keeping those families from living in poverty and thus improving their potential for a good education. That is something that is almost completely outside the realm of public education. It has to be society willing to take responsibility for caring for the poor instead of blaming them.”
I agree that society has this responsibility, but to take only the promising children and put them in “better” situations does exactly what for those who are deemed “less promising?” They are innocents—they need to be protected and given a chance, but their communities are failing them. So now you’ve segregated the promising from the less promising. How can you judge this? Who are you to make this decision? ALL children are promising.
“But as for the rest of the schools, I would like to see schools within schools (middle school and high school) and complete specialized schools at the elementary school level where children can be grouped according to their learning style and/or the preference of their families (which is typically going to align with their learning style). This one size fits all approach is ridiculous.”
A great many schools DO do this. There is no “one size fits all” approach. There are many facets of a child’s learning experience that the professional educators who run the schools take the time (or SHOULD take the time) to examine. In my elementary school, there are intense meetings at the end of the year where children are matched with teachers who will be able to meet their needs and also matched with students whose exposure to one another will benefit them. There is only so much mixing of a grade level that can be done, but given all of the evidence presented, children are carefully placed. Throughout the year, children are referred for special services or tested for gifted tendencies. Children with special needs are also given the environments and the level of teaching they need. There is no “one size fits all” approach, and if this is going on, your county and state education departments need to know this.
A parent’s time in the system is entirely finite – it’s laudable to look to accomplish change in the years to come. In fact, that needs to be a big part of the equation.
But sorry – if a teacher or a principal is going to have the opportunity to mess up 200 lives while he/she is rehabilitated? I’m going to have to side with the 200 kids who need the immediate intervention.
And yes – bad teachers really matter. They matter as much as great teachers do.
To avoteforthefuture:
What are your strategies and solutions for immediate intervention?
Blaming teachers and principals comes through as your hidden agenda. Therefore, readers need to know about your solutions for solving your perceived problems.
LLC,
Is there anywhere in YOUR agenda that allows you to admit there might actually be some bad teachers and bad principals? Seriously. Is teaching the only profession that does not have a bad seed? Is every doctor you visit competent? Every dentist? Every lawyer? Do you get great service at every restaurant? Is every check out person at your local grocery store pleasant and efficient? Are you satisfied 365 days of the year with every federal and state employee that your taxes help support? If so, you can keep taking your jabs.
If not, stop trying to paint people who have actually had experiences with bad teachers and administrators as some evil person with an agenda! Keep doing it and you will continue to push those of us who have always supported teachers further away.
Those reading this blog should already know that the parent trigger has very little to do with principal and teacher quality. The evidence is clear. A great example is Weigand Elementary. This principal was highly praised by both the district, the superintendent, the teachers and parents. Of course, you will always find parents at any school who are not happy with a principal, most often those whose children are seriously behind in school and have serious behavior problems. Frequently, these problems can be attributed to violence and neglect at home. So, it will always be possible for Parent Revolution to seek out and find a few parents who will claim that there are problems with any principal. In fact, Parent Revolution always uses the word “parents” in their statements, not defining which parents and how many parents they are referring to. So, essentially, they could be referring to as little as “2” parents that are unhappy with the principal.
Parent Revolution uses a two-pronged tactic. While they search out parents who are “not happy” with the principal, they also go door to door claiming that a signature on a petition would simply get more resources into the school. Be assured that parents are NOT told that the present staff will most certainly not be returning to the school which means that the quality of the new staff is completely unknown. Be assured that parents also do not know what, if any, role they will play in the governance of the new school.
Pulling a trigger(parent or any other) is an initial action which does not explain the outcome if and when the “weapon” hits its target. In the case of the parent trigger, those signing the petition are doing so with blindfolds on.
To Cindy:
List your solutions.
“Is teaching the only profession that does not have a bad seed?”
No one ever said that. Your argument is based on the fallacy that educators are not held accountable for their teaching by anyone, and educators think they are all terrific. Believe me, teaching is not for everyone. The people who realize that they are not effective often take themselves out of the job, but not all. That is why we have administrators who are both trained educators and evaluators working in our schools. If there is a “bad teacher” out there, look no further than the many administrators who were responsible for over-seeing the evaluative process. I don’t know what you think, but in my district, a non-tenured staff member is observed by many different administrators and given feedback for improvement over the course of several years. Tenured staff is observed by one or more supervisors for formal observation of teaching, and an annual evaluation includes all the staff member’s contributions to learning throughout the school year. If a “bad teacher” is on the job, it is the responsibility of the education professionals on the administrative staff to address the problems whether that means setting up an improvement plan or investigating misconduct. If a principal is under par, that is also the responsibility of the education professionals on the administrative staff. The school board representing the community is ultimately responsible for the school which includes overseeing the hiring and retention of qualified, professional educators as administrative staff. A bunch of parents certainly can offer feedback but should not be representative of the community and be making decisions that affect every child.
LLC: I have no hidden agenda. Do you? It’s sad that the evangelists on this blog dive immediately into the personal attacks.
So – strategies and solutions. 360 degree evaluation. Early intervention. Team teaching while the failing teacher improves. Professional development. More 360 degree evaluation.
And for those who simply don’t make the grade, wish them the best of luck in their new careers. It’s better for everyone concerned if those who cannot teach find a new career where they can be of some value to themselves and to those around them.
As well as getting rid of those who cannot administrate and lead because we all know that once we get rid of all the bad teachers who earned their due process rights as deemed by the “excellent” administrator poverty will end, the achievement gap will be closed for good, the economy will improve, there will be excellent jobs for everybody and peace on earth.
At least we are winning the war on education. Go USA!
LLC – those administrators and leaders should be sent on their way as well.
I truly hope you are no longer in education. The bitterness you exude is remarkable. And yes – that’s a personal one. But holy wow, it’s just plain *that* bad.
Great letter, Diane.
Can’t wait to see how and if Austin responds to your scathing rebuttal. He asked for it…
Diane, this was gorgeous. As a teacher in a Texas Title I middle school with a population very similar to Ms. Cobain’s school above, I know first hand how important it is to have the kind of principal she was described to be and the testimonies of her staff tell the true story. Good teachers don’t back a bad leader (despite what the reformers say), and what was done to her is an absolute disgrace. This man needed to be taken to the woodshed for his anti-educator warpath and you did it beautifully. Twice.
I appear to be a minority of one on this point, but knowing very little about Ben Austin or his organization, I thought he came off pretty well in this exchange.
FLERP!
Yes, a cursory reading of his response does come off pretty well. That’s what con artists and sociopaths have a great ability to do-come off sounding pretty well.
But when one understands what Austin is (and is not) and his prior actions, one knows that it is purely a self serving loathsome response throwing out all kinds of rhetorical slights of hand to district the un/misinformed reader to accept his side.
Yes, he came off pretty well, as all con artists can and do.
Mr. Austin –
You want a ‘Parent Revolution”? Use your organization to encourage parents of pre-school age children to read to their children every day. When those children reach school age, encourage the parents to communicate regularly with the teacher [ the listening side of communication works best here ], make certain that homework is completed, and use every opportunity they can find to engage the children in ways that think mathematically or which challenge them to use a more extensive vocabulary.
What a shame that the Strongs, the Waltons, and Bill and Melinda Gates [ and others] use their millions to fortunes to attack public education, and now, increasingly, specific public educators, rather than put that money to good use helping schools like Weigand Avenue Elementary School.
PS – Best of luck to Ms Chobian, though she sounds like an intelligent woman who is driven to succeed and who will overcome any adversity.
Diane,
Thank you for being here. Your wisdom and support of public education encourages and inspires so many of us. I am grateful to you for standing up to the corporate privatizers who bully. Public education is fortunate that there is a Diane Ravitch.
I think that’s mature of you, Diane, to recognize some boundaries that were crossed in this situation. I’m with you on parent trigger – I think it’s ridiculous – but I don’t support your involvement in the personnel decisions of a district when you’ve never observed or otherwise evaluated this principal. It’s simply not your place. I also think you veered again across the boundary by, in my opinion, unprofessionally “apologizing” to the principal on his behalf. Just seems rude and immature, and again not focused on the actual details of the situation.
I’ve said if before – you are so very right on so many topics, and I hope you’re able to focus on the actual issues whether than personalize things. Parent trigger is a ridiculous enough concept – you have more than enough ammo there.
As if that’s your true concern and as though Diane is seeking your approval. Get over yourself please. You’re so full of ______.
Keeping it classy Linda, as always.
Just for you edbiz guy, who pretends to have once taught…just for you.
The demand for and delivery of pro forma apologies is a major industry these days, unfortunately. Every time we read a new one, we all get a little bit dumber.
I learned from Diane’s letter. Sorry you didn’t. Speak for yourself not all of us.
Linda, I demand an apology!
Ha! You’re funny, sometimes.
Beautifully written. I think this exchange made clear that the “trigger” is a horrifying policy that destroys schools, divides communities, throws children into chaos, and hurts educators.
P.S. to Ben Austin: In your letter you use the word “turnaround” which is a noun (and can also be used as an adjective) instead of the two words “turn around.” You need the latter because, in your sentence, you need a verb, not a noun or adjective. Just saying…
The same problem happens frequently with “everyday” and “every day.”
Sorry folks…I correct my students when they make this mistake, and it’s hard to break the habit…
Be careful. You need to be sensitive to Austin’s upbringing when you offer any criticism of his commentary. I hope you are not one of those “bad teachers who make children uncomfortable” because you have the audacity to correct them. 😉
I noticed those mistakes too. But if you go to the Parent Revolution website, you’ll see a plethora of mistakes- grammatical mostly- which will have you wondering ‘This group of dolts is pushing for education reform?’. Oh the irony…
I can attest to the bullying tactics of Parent Revolution.
Ben Austin’s agenda is simply to take over schools and privatize them to create capitalistic entities. A school is like a family. Teachers, parents, students, and administrators need to work together in order to achieve the desired goal. Sadly, many children have been exposed to all of the lies from Parent Revolution.
Ben Austin, your organization feeds on the parents that are not informed, in order to obtain signatures. You did it in Adelanto and you did it at Weigand. You pushed your agenda at the expense of hurting the children at the school, but let’s be honest, you don’t care for the children. I read your letter through the Hufftington Post and I was deeply moved when you mentioned, “I grew up in Greenwich Village and Venice Beach, the son of two writers. My parents published a number of books, but our family struggled financially.” However, we all know that was a simple tactic to bring out the, “I’ve also struggled” factor. If you want to see struggle, go to Watts. You’ll see that most of the children in Watts have had more traumatic experiences than a normal adult would be exposed to in his/her lifetime. Better yet, I would suggest you go and TEACH at the same school that your organization took over. You went to Weigand and you have created fear and uncertainty among the students that still attend the school. YOU FAILED to see what TEACHERS and ADMINISTRATORS see everyday. More than the school being an institution for education, it served as a safe haven for those children that do face harsh struggles everyday of their life. You care for children and their education, put your money where your mouth is and go teach at Weigand.
Several questions come to mind here. First, why didn’t Austin write directly to Diane on this blog site? This is where she made her comments about him. Why has he addressed her through the Huffington Post? Seems to me that if you feel someone’s insulted you, you confront that person directly, not through an intermediary.
Second, why did the Huffington Post agree to publish Austin’s letter? How many of its readers even know who Ben Austin is? Has the Post actively covered the Parent Trigger Law, Parent Revolution and the turmoil that has disrupted four southern California elementary schools?
Austin is first and foremost a spin doctor, and his letter provides ample evidence of that. Why would the Post give it credibility?
If I may correct your statement: “Austin is first and foremost a SOCIOPATHIC CON ARTIST. . .”
I cannot judge who is right in the underlying issue of suitability. In fact, there is a non-trivial chance that even the blog author is too far away from the events to make a good judge.
However, this issue is of great importance to this conflict and I would truly wish for a stronger argumentation—in particular, when looking at the extreme tone of the original blog entry.
It should particularly be kept in mind that young children are not good judges of their teachers and that popularity (be it with children or teachers) is by no means a proof of suitability or capability. (It can, however, be highly beneficial, in some cirumstances even necessary.)
Hard numbers are far more interesting where schooling is concerned: How do grades and test results develop? (With reservation for e.g. artificial grade inflation.) What is the graduation and drop-out ratios? What happens to the students later in life?
Hard numbers may be the worst way to judge a school. Mostly thy tell you who went to the school, not whether it is a good school.
“Hard numbers are far more interesting where schooling is concerned: How do grades and test results develop? (With reservation for e.g. artificial grade inflation.) What is the graduation and drop-out ratios? What happens to the students later in life?”
Yes, graduation and drop-out ratios are hard numbers (and there are even disagreements on how to figure out those “hard numbers”), but they tell us almost nothing about a teacher, school or district.
Those who seek “hard numbers” in determining what an effective teaching and learning process entails show a complete lack of understanding that the teaching and learning process falls in the realm of aesthetics/quality in human interactions and that the realm of quality is not amenable to to quantification, i.e., “hard numbers”. To attempt to quantify a quality is a logical fallacy and therefore any “hard numbers” derived from such a process are necessarily invalid and worthless.
“What happens to the students later in life?” You’re kidding aren’t you? What does that have to do with the day in/day out interactions involved in the teaching and learning process and the assessment/evaluation of said process.
Diane’s response ought to be on Huffington Post too. Anyone have connections?
I was thinking the very same thing.
One thing that especially drives me nuts is that Ben Austin represents himself as just another LAUSD parent. In an attempt to pass himself as such he has periodically included this statement in his bio: “Ben is looking forward to sending [names redacted] to their wonderful neighborhood elementary school, Warner Elementary.”
The fact of the matter is that Austin’s “wonderful neighborhood elementary school” is an EXTREME outlier of Whiteness and affluence within LAUSD. From the most recent API reports on DataQuest:
— Warner Elementary: 2% AA; 13% As; 5% Hisp; 78% Wh; 5% FRPL; 4% EL; Parent ed level = 4.49.
— Los Angeles USD: 9% AA; 4% As; 75% Hisp; 9% Wh; 83% FRPL; 26% EL; Parent ed level = 2.27.
Also, just so everyone knows who started Parent Revolution, originally a project of Green Dot Schools under another name, the Broad Foundation’s 2007 Form 990 reported a $75,000 contribution “To match SEIU funds to support the Small Schools Alliance launch of the Los Angeles Parent Union.” The LAPU was eventually renamed Parent Revolution.
I can add to this discussion. I am a teacher in a “failing” inner city school that was closed down and had it’s leadership and faculty changed. I came in a year after the new principal and have been there for several years now.
What happened is that changing the leadership, the staff and structure of the school, the supervisory network, the uniform requirements all has not changed the school’s low performance. The reasons are clear, it’s because it’s the kids are all the same, the families are all the same, the neighborhood is the same and all of the same community-wide problems are the same.
Changing principals, APs, teachers, or even the name on the school does not address the underlying troubles in our school – poverty, drugs, crime, violence and teen pregnancy.
But education-related factors can be just as damaging, from the regimen of standardized tests that makes school mind-numbingly boring to the cherrypicking of “desirable” students by nearby charter schools. These are the fault of politicians and corporations, not local school staff, but cut into valuable learning time and waste tax dollars just the same.
To be honest, few candidates would want to be the principal in a school like mine, because the results are so predictable. I went to similar schools in the 70s and 80s and it was the same then – the difference today is the “reform” industry, selling failed fixes to politicians and suits in a long line of failing and failed efforts, over decades.
The problem, as ever, is the false expectation that teachers in a classroom can raise the children like 24/7 families need to. Don’t get me wrong, we change and improve lives every day, helping kids outdo their parents and rise above troubled upbringings. But we cannot do it for all 30 kids in every class, every year – indeed, many kids are not receptive or ready for anything but the chaos they know so well. But we have to deal with them anyway, in the mix every period, every day, while the mayors and millionaires and lobbyists plan our next big tinker.
If you really wanted to help, you’d be in the classroom and in the community all day, every day, like we do, not back in an air conditioned office planning some pipe dream policy. If you did this, you’d see the heart of the issue, and you’d be able to help at least a few kids improve – depending on how much time you put in.
amerigus,
Your description of your situation was illuminating and eloquent and your credentials lend your assertions some credibility, unlike the people who created and are currently implementing the Common Core Standards. Many of them have never actually worked in public schools. Thank you for sharing your experience.
Ok, so I’m a parent, have been for 25 years, and I still have school age children. I live in the suburbs in a “good” school district, in a state that is among the top ranked states in this country. I have children that are bright, well behaved and love to learn. Public schools have failed them, from the oldest to the youngest! I truly wish that the entire system could be dismantled and every parent could just receive a voucher so that they could choose the learning environment that best fit their children. The unions, the politicians, the special interest groups, the bloggers etc. are of little use to me. Whatever the motives, it is not helping kids and is in fact hurting them. The entire system is flawed and can’t be fixed at this point. We are creating generations of psychologically damaged people and it has to stop.
Are you willing to explain further HOW the public schools failed your kids? They did mine too. We finally got them into a private school, and they were less destroyed than beforehand. Vouchers would have helped.
“Are you willing to explain further HOW the public schools failed your kids? They did mine too. We finally got them into a private school, and they were less destroyed than beforehand.”
THERE it is. You finally provide a reason for your contempt for public schools. So have you paid back all the health benefits you “stole” in your past life as a socialist country school teacher or are you still an anti-public worker advocate in words only?
Miss Anonymous LG, what makes you think I ever worked in public education? You seem to want to find an emotional and irrational basis for a bias, but what if my kids’ stories are multiplied millions of times over all over the country. What if my anecdotal evidence is representative? Like many parents we sent our kids off to the public elementary school in the neighborhood quite blithely because that’s what everyone did. If we had known the consequences, both social and intellectual, we would have home schooled, but I’d never heard of it. We just didn’t know. Theoretically, the public common school SHOULD be enough, and available to every kid, but it has not entirely justified itself in my personal family’s history. It needs reform, but it has met expectations from educated parents in many instances with intransigence and ideology and proprietary interest. The public schools do NOT belong to the teachers, or as we like to call them here “educational professionals,” or as I like to call them, the blind leading the blind. The public schools do not have a “right” to support from the citizens. They must earn their wage every day with performance. That’s not too much to ask, in my opinion, but the public school systems think they hold the moral high ground. They don’t. They are a means to an end, and if it is not working any place, the tax payers have a right to withdraw their kids and put them in another school, or no school at all (homeschool). The reluctance of the public school establishment to recognize this fundamental truth, even Diane doesn’t recognize it, prevents the rest of us from giving full credibility to public school defenders.
“Miss Anonymous LG, what makes you think I ever worked in public education?”
In every exchange we’ve had, you never once refuted this notion since you called yourself a “teacher.” By making such reference to your own credentials as a “teacher,” you have used the assumed position as one of experience on the job in the public domain. By never clarifying whether or not you actually WERE a public school teacher, you continually allowed this ambiguity to represent your stance as someone who had the perpective of having taught in the public schools yet somehow refused to support public school teachers. Clever strategy: Don’t admit to your true experience, and instead allow others to think you are a credible witness without coming right out and saying otherwise.
So are you finally admitting that you NEVER taught in the public schools or are you going to keep up this guessing game? Your credibility wanes with every post you make.
“You seem to want to find an emotional and irrational basis for a bias, but what if my kids’ stories are multiplied millions of times over all over the country. What if my anecdotal evidence is representative?”
What about the students who found success in the public school system? What if their stories are multiplied billions of times over all over the country? Yours is not the only narrative, and certainly yours does not speak to the reality of the masses. It is a fringe argument.
“Like many parents we sent our kids off to the public elementary school in the neighborhood quite blithely because that’s what everyone did. If we had known the consequences, both social and intellectual, we would have home schooled, but I’d never heard of it.”
What consequences, exactly? I’ll ask you for evidence as I ask anyone who comments in absolutes.
“We just didn’t know. Theoretically, the public common school SHOULD be enough, and available to every kid, but it has not entirely justified itself in my personal family’s history. It needs reform, but it has met expectations from educated parents in many instances with intransigence and ideology and proprietary interest.”
Ever since the lying propaganda, “A Nation at Risk,” the public schools have been subjected to countless attempts at reform, some for the worst, some for the best, and some without any noticeable impact. As a public school educator, I have seen a cycle of reforms forced down the throats of educators over and over, many just recycled ideas that were tried before. Admittedly, no system is perfect, but the public school systems are run with something home schools and private schools are not: Academic freedom with a built-in variance of experiences from a vast community of individual educators who collaborate, innovate, and make instructional choices based on the connections they make with the children they teach. These are the people who make the educational decisions for their charges, regardless of the quality of (and sometimes, in spite of) the curricular reforms themselves. These educators provide an environment that scaffolds a student’s learning experience by constructing and modifying lessons, establishing a learning culture, and reflecting on these dcisions daily to promote student understanding. Teachers in general must be trained decision-makers, not script-facilitators who blindly follow a textbook or “explain as they go”–they are vibrant, living entities who take a vested interest in their students’ learning. To deny the community access to these professionals and instead leave our community’s future in the hands of those private individuals with their own private agendas is civically irresponsible.
“The public schools do NOT belong to the teachers, or as we like to call them here ‘educational professionals,’ or as I like to call them, the blind leading the blind.”
If anyone is blind, it is the short-sighted individual who thinks that everyone has the same ambitions as he does and therefore believes that everyone should be left to make their own decisions regardless of whether or not they lack the professional knowledge to do so. Why stop there? You ought to provide all your own services since you know best: Build your own roads, perform your own medical procedures, police your own property, teach your own children. Why should you need ANY government systems for any of these services? You obviously are expert in everything already, and those mere mortals who are not advanced humans like you be damned. They must be lazy to be living off of the government like they do, so let them fend for themselves on all fronts, right?
The schools do not belong to just one group–they belong to all of us.
“The public schools do not have a ‘right’ to support from the citizens. They must earn their wage every day with performance.”
Schools are inanimate objects–as such, they have no rights. The schools are run by the elected officials and their hirees to represent the will of the community as a whole. School board members are not paid for their services, therefore there is no “wage” to be earned as elected representatives. I would think a critic such as yourself would be educated in simple civics, but I suppose there is no need for a being of such elite intelligence as yourself to waste time learning about how these governments work since you refute their usefulness.
“That’s not too much to ask, in my opinion, but the public school systems think they hold the moral high ground. They don’t.”
Systems cannot think for themselves–they are constructs of the human mind. Really, you would have considered home schooling?
“They are a means to an end, and if it is not working any place, the tax payers have a right to withdraw their kids and put them in another school, or no school at all (homeschool). The reluctance of the public school establishment to recognize this fundamental truth, even Diane doesn’t recognize it, prevents the rest of us from giving full credibility to public school defenders.”
Define “working.” Your definition of what is “working” may vary from other people’s–that doesn’t make yours a “fundamental truth.” That makes it an opinion, and you know the old saying about opinions, don’t you?
I never intended to misrepresent myself as an insider critiquing an institution of which I was a part. For that I may be partly responsible. I don’t have contempt for the public schools. They do an heroic job against difficult odds in sometimes impossible circumstances. I only wish to see them improved where they need to be. I do not believe that improvement will or can come as long as they are defended as the only legitimate means to the educational objective. Too often public school defenders seem to me to be conflating what’s good for them ( secure jobs) with what is good for kids. Pure self interest marching under the flag of benevolence didn’t fly in the Crusades any more than it does now. Improvement can begin with admitting that the publicness of public education does not confer a privileged position on it. Public education’s defenders seem to me to want to treat it like an established church. I tend to be more ” protestant.”
I don’t want Obama as God and Duncan as Pope. I don’t want the clergy to obey the Vatican of the DOE. I still don’t see why the public schools should be privileged. When there is only one taxi cab company in town and that one government run, it will cost too much and give lousy service. A little competition is in order.
“A little competition is in order.”
Competition is for sporting events. Eduction is not a competition–it is a collaborative effort. I have no problem with creating options for children with differing needs–I have a problem with privatizing education. Whenever there are opportunities to a) make money (i.e.. profit) off an enterprise or b) segregate populations, I oppose such.
I mean competition between schools. Even competition between individuals isn’t totally out of order. If education is exclusively within the category of collaboration, that logically, an individual can’t get educated unless he has collaborators. That makes a mockery of self-study. Surely you can’t quite mean that.
I favor non-profits for private education and public charters. The for-profit management of charters is troubling, but I don’t believe it is impossible for a for-profit company to manage a charter responsibly. There are crooks everywhere, even in public school education and administration. One of the worst abuses in public education is to hold talented students hostage to the untalented. You are unjust to the talented in trying to bring cosmic justice to all. The schools don’t make dumb kids, but they can make smart kids quite frustrated. I don’t see how you can justify injustice to some until there is justice for all. That’s what is driving privatization. Parents who don’t share your social philosophy won’t be FORCED.
This is another great response. It seems to me that there are a couple of parents here writing some fantastic stuff about why they see the public system gee way the do; the way I do too.
And I seems to me that there are a few really bitter, aggressive teacher-types looking to blame everything around them, but the system itself.
There is good in the public system. There is bad in it too. We need to keep the good, try to fix the bad, listen to new ideas, listen to constructive criticism and, when we truly have bad things happening, or ineffective teachers, we need to remove them too.
One bad year can leave a huge negative impact on a child. Several children, in that class. Do you think a Doctor or a Lawyer wouldn’t be taken out of the immediate game if they were actually damaging their clients or patients? They are. Rehabilitated and back, if possible, or simply gone if not.
Our time in public schools is finite. We can’t afford to have a child turned off of learning. It’s too high a cost.
Ugh…I meant “education.” I’m starting to loathe auto-correct.
Where in America is education a secure job? Not in California, where we’ve seen several Teachers of the Year pink-slipped along with their awards in the past five years, with teacher layoffs, and “parent triggers.” Not in Texas, where contracts for teachers are, by state law, 30-day contracts (state law forbids union organizing, too — teachers can belong to an “association” that can’t strike and has only jawbone power in exceptional circumstances) — those are the two biggest public education states. Not in New York, where even the union heads are held in suspicion by teachers, whose “tenure” is no longer tenure. Not in Illinois, where mayors get their wishes to close “problem” schools, laying off 5,000 teachers at a swat. Not in Florida, not in Indiana, not in Ohio . . .
The ONLY reason teachers are in education is for the good of the kids. Teachers give up prospects of better pay, respect by their organizational hierarchy superiors, and increasingly and most distressingly, by the public. If teachers don’t get great psychic rewards from opening the paths to learning for children, they don’t get rewards at all.
Have you heard that we have a teacher shortage coming? Want to guess why?
“I mean competition between schools. Even competition between individuals isn’t totally out of order. If education is exclusively within the category of collaboration, that logically, an individual can’t get educated unless he has collaborators. That makes a mockery of self-study. Surely you can’t quite mean that.”
I am not certain how self-study equates to competition between learners. Self-study is a competition, in effect, with the last version of one’s own skill and knowledge base, i.e. with one’s own self.
Competition is not the goal of education, nor is it healthy as a means to “get educated.” The mere idea of it distorts the purpose of education in the first place. One seeks to be educated to better one’s self, not to “be better than everyone else.”
How does one measure himself against anyone else anyway given the fact that there are so many aspects of learning that cannot even be quantified? Numbers may serve to inform, but perspectives and conditions can change statistics. How do you account for every variable and create an accurate profile of each type of learning by which to compare? Also how do you determine which individual teacher was responsible for influencing the learner regarding which variable? You cannot do any of these things–it is impossible to make apples-to-apples comparisons yet you would not only like to believe you can but you would attach these false conclusions to judgements about learners and the “worthiness” of their teachers and school communities. It’s unfair to make logically impossible conclusions, i.e.. to make absolute conclusions ignoring the many variables. One needs a control group for each and every factor of influence. Do you think there would NOT be an enormous margin of error?
Wouldn’t it be nice if there were absolutely no standardized measures for educational success, and teachers could simply focus on educating children in whatever way they believe is best, and that all schools were funded to their greatest need and without oversight? And students learned to their capacity and everyone would sing kum-ba-yah at the end of the day?
And yes, it certainly would be a better world if poverty, racism, abuse and more simply didn’t exist.
But this isn’t the world we live in. This is an organized society. When public funds are spent, there needs to be accountability.
I am *so* tired of the educators on this blog berating anyone who suggests that a teacher be accountable for *anything*.
People are accountable for the work that they do. NOBODY wants a teacher to be accountable for things that are beyond their control. You have had FIFTY YEARS to develop a means to show that you are accountable in your use of public funds. You have not done it to the public’s satisfaction.
So – others are now coming in to try and develop what you failed to do. Yup, some of them are shysters. Some of them are ego-maniacs. And some of them are doing so because they have experience and success and they can apply those to helping to improve education and measurement of same.
Some of you even have the temerity to say that the system isn’t broken. Well, maybe it’s not broken for *you*. But it IS broken for the rest of us. And it’s public money here – so – if you are so certain that everything is hunky-dory in what you are adding to the process, well then, prove it. That’s what using public funds requires.
Steve
Steve said:
No. The premise of “no standardized measures” is a bad idea. In that case, as now, we would have no real way to determine whether the system is working.
You mistake testing for reform, and you mistake test results for quality; you assume that test results are the result of what a teacher does in the previous few months, without any assistance (or interference) from parents, the front office, state agencies, and smart phones, and family.
It would be good if we had research to guide teachers in the best ways to educate kids. We have way too little now, and what does exist rarely can break through the complex regulatory web created by NCLB proponents who ironically, and probably sardonically, require any new process to be “research tested and proven,” probably knowing that gives raters more opportunities to fire teachers.
That’s where our dispute lies.
Yes, sometimes it’s best to hold hands and sing “Kum Ba Yah.” Especially in school. Singing is good, music education is important to the development of sterling minds. Group activities to celebrate milestones produces greater achievement.
I gather you’re opposed to that. That’s a key part of the problem. “Reformers” are too often working against what we know works (though often we’re not sure why it works), against what many regard as “frills” like music and poetry (well, Aristotle argued against it, didn’t he?), and against achievement that can’t be used to fire somebody.
It’s a problem of models. A group singing a song together shows some developmental progress, and may show other progress. The Donald Trump “You’re Fired” model is much more titillating to bullies. Bullies tend to rule too many places.
We need a model that works, a model grounded in good theory (“theory” does not mean “guess”), a model that produces some sort of scoreboard teachers can use, day-in and day-out, to determine what to do next.
“Accountability” is a light on that scoreboard, but it’s not the score, and it’s not the game.
Don’t patronize with stuff you don’t believe and you know policy makers won’t work towards.
Poverty is the big one here. We’ve known for 40 years that poor parents as a group cannot produce students who will achieve well academically as well as rich parents, not because they’re not the great parents they are, but because middle class wealth brings learning opportunities for preschool kids and pre-adolescents and teens that mold minds and make them work well; kids in poverty miss that. Until you’ve tried to get your students up to speed on the Constitution with students who do not know how many states there are, what oceans border our nation, who George Washington was, what a Constitution is, how laws are made, or where food comes from, you really don’t appreciate the difficulty.
Yeah, they used to get that stuff in the newspaper. But their families can’t afford newspapers.
And when I get those kids to “commended” levels on the state test, how dare you tell me I’ve failed. Shame on you, and may you be nervous every time you hear thunder, or go under the knife with a surgeon who passed my class.
There can be no accountability where there is no authority. If I do not have the authority to obtain the tools to educate the students in my tutelage to the standard, why not hold accountable those who are the problem? I produced four years of achievement in the bottom 20% — you’re bellyaching because the top 3% only got one year of achievement? They were already scoring at the 14 year level — sophomores in college. “Adequate Yearly Progress” can’t be had for those students, if you define adequate as “more than one year,” and if they’re already far beyond the material we are required to teach.
Accountability is a tool to get toward quality. You want to use it as a club. I think it should be a crime to misuse tools in that fashion.
You really don’t have a clue what’s going on in my classroom, do you.
Show me where anyone has said that. I weary of anti-education shouters complaining about teachers not being accountable, when we’re swimming in “accountability,” we’re beating the system most of the time, and still berated for it; our achievements are denigrated, our needs are ignored. If we win the Superbowl, we’re told we failed to win an Oscar. If we win the Superbowl AND an Oscar, we’re told someone else did better at the Pulitzers. If we win the Nobel Prize for Peace, we’re asked to beef up our STEM chops.
I was asked to boost my state passing scores by 5%. Part of the reason Dallas dismissed me was my abject refusal to sign to that (“insubordination”). That it’s mathematically impossible to boost a 100% passing rate to 105% didn’t change anyone’s mind, nor give anyone pause in passing along the paper. College acceptances didn’t count, SAT scores didn’t count, student evaluations didn’t count.
I wish idiots who can’t do math would be held accountable, but you want my gray scalp instead (and larger paycheck; but of course, that’s not really in the system, is it?). Is there no reason you can find to cling to?
There’s a difference between “accountability,” and “pointless blame.” See if you can discern it. Your children’s future depends on it. Our nation’s future depends on it. We’re not playing school here.
That’s absolutely untrue in about 85% of the jobs in America. W. Edwards Deming died, and people forgot all about the 14 points and how to make winning teams. Are you familiar with the Red Bead experiment?
Most people calling for accountability can’t define it (Hint: in the top management school, you don’t see this equation: “accountability=fire somebody”).
Can you do better? What is “accountability?” Will you please rate me on the advancements of my students? No? How about on their achievements? No? Can you tell me even what you want to hold teachers accountable for?
Don’t wave that sword when you don’t know how to use it, or ife you can’t recognize the difference between a scalpel and a scimitar, please.
You give me white beads, I turn 80% of them red, and you complain about the few that remain white? You’re playing the guy who, having witnessed Jesus walking on water, wrote the headline, “Jesus can’t swim!” That’s a joke — it’s not how to make a better school, or a better education system, and it’s not accountability.
As Deming noted occasionally, we’ve had 5,000 years to develop standards of quality for carpentry and metalwork, and haven’t done it.
The Excellence in Education Commission in 1983 recommended changes to stop the “rising tide of mediocrity” in education. Among the top recommendations, raise teacher pay dramatically, and get out of the way of teachers so they can do their job.
Instead, teacher pay has stagnated and declined, and we have a bureaucracy the sort of which George Orwell never had a nightmare about standing in their way.
But you want to “hold the teachers accountable.”
I suppose it’s impossible to be part of the rising tide of mediocrity and also recognize you’re part of the problem.
Your failure to understand accountability should not cost me my job. I not only want accountability, I want justice, especially for my students. 97% of my students will face invidious racial discrimination when they go out to get a job; many of them (about 50%) come from families who don’t use banks. No checking accounts, no home loans, no car loans from a bank. More than half of the males have never worn a tie. 75% of them come from homes where no novel is on any bookshelf; 30% of them claim to come from homes where there are no books at all, not even a phone book.
They passed the test with flying colors despite that.
That kid who came in not knowing how to write a paragraph went out of my classroom with a commended on his state test, and writing well enough to score 80th percentile on the SAT including the writing part. You have a lot of damnable gall to claim that my work to get him to write his brilliant ideas, well, was wasted effort.
Why won’t you hold me accountable for that? Why do you refuse to look at real accountability?
Don’t claim I’m shucking accountability, when you haven’t looked, and you don’t know what it is.
Good luck to them. Why not let me compete with them. I mean compete fairly — either they don’t get to take money from me merely by existing, or I get to take money from them when I beat them in achievement, and when we take students away from them because they aren’t getting the job done?
You seem to think that these other alternatives for sucking taxpayer money work better. My schools beat charter schools and most private schools in our same population in achievement, in yearly progress, and in a dozen other categories. (Our art students took the top prizes at the state show, beating students from one of the nation’s “top ten high schools” four miles away; the art teachers who got them there? Rated inadequate, given growth plans, funding cut . . . I though you were campaigning for accountability?)
Don’t change the subject. I thought you were for accountability. All of a sudden, you’re against it when we’re talking brass tacks. When we miss a standard, we public school teachers get fired. When we beat the hell out of a standard, we still get fired. When we beat the private schools, the charter schools, and the home schooled kids in achievement, we get zip, or a pink slip.
Accountability? I’d love to see it. You can’t show it, though, so you’re wasting my time and taxpayer money hollering about it.
Your kids are in jail? Sorry the system failed you so badly. I had a 90% graduation rate out of my students, in a state where 75% is the state norm and suspected by everyone to be inflated. If your kids are not in jail, and didn’t drop out, that’s good.
Public education isn’t a right (in most states); it’s a civic duty, the thing that keeps our republic alive and democratic. School worries about your kids, sure — but we must also worry about every other kid, too.
What about the 200 other families in your neighborhood? The levels of vandalism and other crimes in your neighborhood depends on the children of those families getting an education. I was able to turn around a dozen of them. The local cops actually did a good job with another dozen.
The local charter school wouldn’t take any of those 24 kids. The private schools took one on an athletic scholarship, but he flunked out his junior year, after football season ended. He was out of school for full six months before we got him back. Three of those girls got commended on the state test despite their having infants; two others got commended and one more passed for the first time in her life despite their delivering children within three weeks of the test. We covered the history of children’s literature one week, convincing more than a few that they should read to their babies, as they were never read to. I got the local bookstore to donate children’s books for each parent in my class, so that their children won’t grow up without at least one book in the house.
We’re teachers, and we worry about the future. Why won’t you allow accountability for that?
Accountability? The word does not mean what you think it means.
Firing teachers is not accountability. It’s an evasion of accountability. It’s destructive of schooling and education. Firing teachers damages children. Even if you could tell who the bad teachers are — and you can’t, no one can do it well — firing teachers cannot offer hope of getting better teachers to replace them.
Why not improve education instead? Who is accountable for that?
Ed Darnell –
I am not mistaking testing for reform or test results for quality. How in the world did you come to that conclusion? And I agree that research on how to guide teachers in the best ways to educate today’s kids is *needed*, and will always be so.
So – no dispute.
And somehow you conclude that I am against the arts because I satirically suggest that a “kum ba-yah” moment fix it all? Sorry, but I am a big backer of the arts, and I *know* that they contribute to education in so many more ways than we give them their just due.
On poverty. We agree. I am not patronizing anyone. But we cannot ask educators to change that – it’s something that we have to work around, and it absolutely plays a huge role in what level of success we can expect. We need to hold our politicians accountable for this.
On accountability in education. YES, there can be accountability without all-empowering-authority. In Quebec, we are held to the QEP – Quebec Education Program. Within the scope of the QEP, most of our teachers have a huge margin to work in.
But some of them are great. And some of them are not. And a whole lot of them are simply good. And that is all ok – except, as in any other field, those who are unable to improve, well, they must leave. And to me, education is one of the highest priorities – so they have to improve quickly, or they have to get out. I am not willing to sacrifice students to eve an educator. And at the same time, I am not willing to sacrifice an educator without what due process should take into account.
I am not using accountability “as a club”. I am requiring that everyone be accountable. And if I had my way, in top management, accountability WOULD equal firing people too. And that is what I push at the school board where I am a trustee.
In speaking to how best to beat back the “tide of mediocrity” – well, I *agree* that teacher pay should be dramatically raised and that master teachers should be considered at on the level of doctors, lawyers and other highly paid professionals. And I want nothin more than to get out of their way too. So – again – your conclusions about me are wrong.
On justice – we want the same thing.
Why so much venom? You claim I don’t know what accountability is? Why the personal attacks, again? I think I have proven, once again, thatI *do* know what accountability is and that on many things, we actually agree.
On Charter schools – I didn’t pronounce myself on them, so this is yet another mistaken conclusion. My thoughts on them are evolving. I see a lot of good. I see a lot of bad. I don’t have an answer still.
My kids in jail? Wow. Is that what failure means to you? Actually, my kids are both in the highest science level in college right now. Failure to me is when they got home from high school and told us about the movies they watched in class. About the chem teacher whom we all recognize should not be teaching, but both of my kids had. When my kid came home and finally found a way to verbalize his frustration as so: “It’s like she is … UNteaching me!”
That is failure. And again, let’s be real here – I have an inside track in my schools, and I know that this is not just a failure to communicate with my kids or my family – this is a problem that has existed for years, continues to exist and is understood and shared by administrators and many others.
Is firing teachers a goal? No, it isn’t. But when it should be done, it should be done. And I am not going to apologize for that – some teachers need to go.
And a conclusion – your last paragraph – Why not improve education instead? Who is accountable for that?” My answer is that we ALL are accountable for that. And I would like to see accountability at every level. Teachers. Administrators. Parents. Politicians. Society, in general, should be accountable!
Steve
Then adopt the tried-and-true method of getting quality employees in any position, in any industry: Raise the pay.
You want good teachers? Pay them. The good will drive out the bad.
I didn’t see you advocate that anywhere. You wrote about “accountability” and claimed, falsely to me, that teachers avoid it.
You want accountability? Use the free market-tested-and-proven method to make it work: Raise the pay. Attract stars to the work. Celebrate them as stars.
Is that what you meant? You should have said so, instead of couching your argument behind the “fire the bastards” rhetoric.
I can tell you that Dallas ISD does not put schools in the top ten high schools in the nation list, year after year, by firing anyone. I have yet to find a school made good by daily floggings of teachers.
What is it you advocate, if not what you said, some vague “accountability” shamanic chant that results in firing teachers?
Ed – PLEASE read my posts before attacking your keyboard.
You don’t see me advocating the raising of pay? Please see what I wrote earlier today:
“In speaking to how best to beat back the “tide of mediocrity” – well, I *agree* that teacher pay should be dramatically raised and that master teachers should be considered at on the level of doctors, lawyers and other highly paid professionals. And I want nothin more than to get out of their way too. So – again – your conclusions about me are wrong.”
???
So – am I really couching my arguments with my “Fire the Bastards” rhetoric? NO – the fact is that I want to pay teachers as the professionals that they are. And I want to get rid of the ones who shouldn’t be there.
I want to get rid of Administrators that don’t belong. I want to get rid of Directors who don’t belong. I want to get rid of Commissioners/Trustees who don’t belong. There is a place for everyone. But it’s not always in education, and the sooner those people leave and stop distracting the rest of us from this incredibly important work, the better.
Steve
Are you a teacher? What subjects and level? Where? Do you place yourself in the category of “the rest of us”? And how do you know you are in that group?
Steve, please read your posts before claiming I didn’t read them.
You attack teachers and others who “don’t want accountability” — a straw man — and when I present the counter case, you retreat.
Where do you stand, if not where you said?
Ed – I stand where I SAID I stand – I am retreating from *nothing*! I am saying that we *should* pay teachers as the professionals that they are. Where is the argument?!?
Linda – I am not a teacher. I am an elected Commissioner (Trustee) and parent in the public system in Quebec. I have been deeply involved for 14 years now. And I have every right to consider myself “part of that group”, as I *am* part of that group; that progressive group who cares about education, where it was and where it is going. That group who has actual influence in the results we see in our students.
Raise the pay, Steve. Get it up to a reasonable amount for highly trained professionals. THEN, and only then, would it be appropriate to talk about firing the bad teachers.
But you won’t have to.
On the other hand, if you concentrate on getting rid of bad teachers, you’re going to have a heckuva time recruiting enough good ones — and since, as you say, so many of them are bad that the schools are in trouble, how in the world can you make the political case to pay all those lousy teachers, more money?
You’re working at different ends, conflicting ends, and until you realize that teachers are not your problem, you’re going to have difficulty.
Ed, where have I said that so many of our teachers are bad? I said that SOME were. And some ARE. We have great teachers. We have good teachers. And we have bad teachers.
We can advocate for changing how we treat teachers at the same time as we advocate for the recruitment and retention of great teachers, and at the same time as we encourage those who really should not be in education to find their path.
Recruiting while firing is what’s known in management as “pissing in the soup.” You can do it, sure.
Why would you?
Championship organizations require leadership, not management to weed out the “bad ones.”
Good luck.
Lumping yourself into the category of the “rest of us” I thought you were implying you were one of the competent teachers as compared to the lousy, lazy, good for nothing kind..the ones causing all the problems in our society: poverty, no jobs, wars, obesity, drug abuse, the gaps: achievement, income, opportunity, credibility, etc… Now I see that you are not a teacher. Thanks for the clarification.
I have to thank you for another impressive post. I am always intrigued by your writing, responses and the information you provide. It all has informed me about important issues the teaching profession is dealing with and I continue to be inspired to learn more outside of your books, articles and blogs. Now I enjoy reading Anthony Cody and Mercedes S blogs among many others. So thank you! I was in Albany for the rally today (and home and exhausted now). I had wished you were there to speak and wondered why you weren’t. Anyway, you have amazing commitment and it is appreciated. Thanks again.
Thanks, Jeannette. I was not there for personal reasons, having to do with a huge residential move.
Great post – a decade of cleaning house and at least another decade needed. I’d like to see textbook reps thrown into the fire as well, but then that might have to include all the cash doled out by the NSF/NCTM/etc. California lawyers thoroughly enjoying slow roasting some administrators in SD, so cheaky demanding kickbacks and victimizing contractors. However, citizens will not see justice in this life-time. EPISD did it right! Cheating on standardized tests is all the norm – good for some while testing lasted. I’d like to see the lights go on and a bug bomb go off. There should be more than a number that describes the culture of a school. Ours is 807, but it hardly reflects what students know – the result for our school is fewer students taking physics and advanced math – their general math skills are so ridiculously low. Less than 3% of enrollment takes physics and only half can pass a class that has been so watered down from twenty years ago that you could scarcely call it physics anymore. Computer science doesn’t exist – has never existed. This should be our wake up call – this reform lacks integrity and depth. Furthermore, they spin, spin, spin and they’re the meanest dogs you’ll ever have to face in the classroom.
The size of a payout is telling. At today’s prices, a superintendent soliciting for campaign contributions, $40k from one contractor will feed approximately five school board members.
Good for you. You were much nicer ghan I could be. I would have called him a liar for pretending to care about our kids education. He cares about no one but himself and I, unlike you, hope he gets what he deserves someday. He destoyed our community, traumatized our kids and pit parents against parents to get what he wanted. He IS. A loathsome individual and I will continue to fight against Parent Revolution and THEIR Parent Trigger! Thank you Diane for always being honest and bold!
This is fantastic!!!
Not that i needed another one, but this letter gave me just one more piece of evidence supporting my claim that Diane Ravitch is My Idol!!!
http://theindignantteacher.wordpress.com/2013/06/04/diane-ravitch-is-my-idol/
Jill Conroy, I could swear you are my mother but you are way too young! Thank you for your kind words.
Diane
wow, boo hoo. A reformer got their feelings hurt. Welcome to the world of the modern teacher who has been bashed and demoralized by the reform movement. If you can dish it out, you can take it!!!
Dr. Ravitch,
I have an e-mail from Ben Austin, repeating the things he put in his HuffPo piece.
I can understand how he misplaced his anger; but you already acknowledged that, and you apologized for his taking offense.
So this is more than just an explanation of his side of the story. Or, more accurately, it is considerably less than his side of the story: It is a Parent Revolution attack on you.
I’m at a bit of a disadvantage in this discussion. I don’t know whether “Parent Revolution” is organized as a 501 (c)(3), or as a 501 (c)(4), or as an educational corporation, or as an arm of the California state empowered to use state money to educate kids.
It is unclear to me why he discusses his personal matters instead of his official actions. I cannot make a judgment as to whether that is appropriate or not.
But it’s clear that he’s escalating the fight.
You know where to contact me if you want help.
Here’s the response I sent to Ben Austin’s e-mail:
I’ve also catalogued this Ravitch/Austin discussion, with a few comments:
War on Teachers and Education, Part 1: Prof. Ravitch’s emotion-touching call for a cease-fire
War on Teachers and Education, Part 2: Ben Austin of Parent Revolution attacked Prof. Ravitch
War on Teachers and Education, Part 3: Prof. Ravitch’s response
War on Teachers and Education, Part 4: The fight gets a little weird
No response from Mr. Austin, nor from his organization.
I suppose dialogue was not exactly what they wanted.
Ms. Ravitch I have been researching this whole privitatization of public services since Parent Revolution has targeted my school. Ben and his like are interested in taking publuc services like schools and even libraries to privateers. Always promoted as being able to provide better services. With dwindling tax dollars public entities can unburden themselves of unions, costly health care, and underfunded pensions. Under eleaborate PR campaigns boards and councils are sold on the ideas. Next, is to convince the public needing the services. The gray area of being ethical is where the privateers work in. Their campaign is well groomed. A student looked at the Parent Revolution web site. He said ( a 5th grader) that it was well written to appeal to parents. Just what parents would want to hear. He researched those opposed to PR and found explicit examples of not doing what they promised. He said “bait and switch”.
Privitization is just another way for the 1% of America to mine new monies for profit to line their pockets. Their desire to help students is only if there is profit to be made. Besides if things don’t work out well and these kids hit the street being undesirables there are privitized psychiatric hospitals and private prisons these people can be warehoused with tax dollars and at a profit.
LG,
Your list is long and your personal accusations equally so. I can’t address all your conclusions simply because a) it is pointless and b) it is pointless.
But if I get nothing else across here, you choose to stop reading because you are bored, I want to set the record straight on two issues:
First, I do not watch Fox News unless I am forced to. The last time I “chose” to turn to Fox was the night of the 2012 Presidential election after President Obama was announced the probable winner on the other networks. I figured if Fox reported the same thing, it had to be true. I was tired and wanted to go to sleep.
Second, the fact that you think that I have to go back to school and get a teaching certificate to have anything of value to say about my daughter’s or my friends’ children’s or the children’s in my community education says more about your arrogance than it does about my educational “ignorance”.
Yes, I could uproot my family, sell my house at a loss, declare bankruptcy, live with relatives, quit my job, sell everything I own to move to a different district, but that would NOT guarantee a great education for my child. The fact that you propose such outlandish solutions to education problems baffles me. Further, you distill everything down to black-and-white by suggesting that everyone who has a problem with education in public schools lives in a McMansion. I am not listening to that argument anymore and I hope other people who read and respond to this blog are not listening either. Because if you are buying that garbage then you are part of the problem and cannot hope to be part of the solution. And as a side note: Telling me how people live in Europe is irrelevant. The US is not Europe.
“Did the deterioration of the school happen quickly or was it a gradual situation?”
It saved the district money. The same reason that a third grade classroom was eliminated at our local elementary school this past year. A teacher could have been retained (or hired) if teachers were allowed to accept less money, but the union contracts will not let them (that is what I have been told). You say that makes me a Fox News watcher or a neo-liberal (don’t even know what that is except that you guys here like to throw that around quite a lot) or a conservative.
“You cannot take the “prima donna” stance that everything will always be there for you without you working for it to stay. The problem is that often people want something better than that to which they are willing to contribute.”
I have calmed down a bit since I read that, but I’ve got to tell you that this more than anything else made me want to take down my shelved obscenities dictionary and dust it off. I TRIED to work within the system. I’m not going to go into details (revisit my pointless argument). Suffice it to say that there is ingrained in our local school system (and those of my friends with whom I’ve discussed these same issues) to dismiss parents when they have objections, questions, or concerns. You guys know best. We parents know less.
I’m sorry you have McMansions overshadowing your school buildings. We don’t. People in my community support the schools and the teachers; even those who don’t find it to be the “best it can be”.
“You can never pay teachers what they are truly worth, so you partially compensate them with salary and the rest is part of the package to ease their living expenses. People complain that these are perks, but actually they are part of the total compensation for working there. These group benefits make it affordable for the communities to fund and attractive for the individuals you wish to stay working in your community schools.”
Perhaps teachers over the years have taken on more than what most of us parents want them to do which is why you believe they cannot be adequately compensated. In my case, I would like for the elementary school teachers to teach my child how to read, write, SPELL, and do math. I do not expect to have to TEACH my child ANY of those things at home because I send her to you (the TEACHER) seven hours a day, five days a week, nine months a year. If I see that my daughter and her classmates cannot do these things unless I, as the parent, spend many hours at home reinforcing those “teachings” and I, as the parent, have to spend time helping other children struggling to read at school, then I WILL conclude that the system is NOT working. In return for all the hard work the teacher does to teach my daughter these important skills, I agree to teach my daughter manners and I will reinforce how important it is for her to take her time at school seriously and to put her best effort into her studies. I will also promise to get to the bottom of the matter of why she does not perform up to the TEACHER’s expectations if that problem arises. I want the teacher to HAVE expectations and I will stand WITH the teacher when there are problems. I WILL NOT automatically assume that the teacher is out to get my child. How much is that worth?
“The standards are a nice idea in theory, but depending on the community and level of parental commitment, not all children have the same entry-level knowledge and skill level to even operate within the confines of what the standards expect.”
I don’t live in one of those districts. The Common Core standards do not expect any knowledge that I find unacceptable for children to know. Again, you revert to the absolute extreme to devalue something that is supposed to be a way to make sure all children are being presented with the material that has been deemed “universal” across State boundaries within the US.
“The standards will further expose these children’s shortcomings and in effect blame the schools for them.”
Then all hope is lost, right? You cannot teach my daughter to reach her potential because some children aren’t capable, through lack of inherent ability or because of their home life, to perform to a common standard. You have provided the best reason for parents who do want what is best for their children and who do not have these problems to have a choice.
“Of course, as I’ve mentioned before, there is always room for improvement, but the “crisis” that reformers are hoping you believe in is a fallacy. American schools, by and large, are NOT failing.”
What is “failing”? I believe it is different to you than it is to me. Failing is any system that requires the parent of a bright child to spend hours at home making sure the child is proficient in the basics. You will not sway me from that belief. It is why I homeschool; that, and the fact that if I was unhappy when there were 26 kids in the class, I was going to be more unhappy with 30+ kids in the class.
“You make a blanket statement based on just what experience exactly?”
I was helping struggling readers in both the 2nd and 3rd grade at my daughter’s school. These were children who could not read “picture” books fluently but who did not qualify for Title I targeted assistance. The children in the 3rd grade were no further along than those struggling in the 2nd grade. I know this because I was helping them both at the same time. Not all these children are from broken homes. These children could have achieved fluency if they had been taught phonics instead of sight words. That is just one example. I could give you a whole list of problems I saw. This is not an inner-city school or even a poor school district. It is just middle of the road, Midwestern America.
” It is most difficult to connect exactly who did what to the “child” who “fell through the cracks”—another ridiculous catch-all phrase riddled with hyperbole—by simply placing blame on a teacher or a principal. A child is given opportunities in grade school to achieve.”
B.S. (see, I dusted off that book after all). The only opportunity the children are given is the curriculum chosen by those in charge and the teaching philosophy chosen by those in charge. Whether or not it actually works is not challenged and any attempts to do so are met with resistance. I am not blaming any individual teacher, per se. I am blaming the system. YOU are the one who equates an attack on the system as an attack on teachers. Yet, there are individual teachers who are not doing a good job and it IS almost impossible to get rid of them unless they do something outrageous (crazy).
“Yet, the mantra of those whom you apparently listen to is that the teacher and the child’s school are the ONLY influences on a child’s learning. Preposterous, out-of-touch, and utterly ridiculous. I am appalled that in this day age, seemingly intelligent adults are still falling for this garbage. If teachers are so powerful, they should be paid like millionaires.”
You presume I “listen” to a bunch of other people and am not capable of forming an opinion of my own. Oh well. But teachers are, in fact, THAT powerful if only due to the sheer amount of time they spend with our children.
“I cannot tell you how many children in primary grades come to school having not slept enough the night before or who are sick or hungry, and this is in the McMansion neighborhood in which I teach.”
Having been a part of the modern day school system, I can attest to almost walking out of the house without having given my child breakfast. The reason? Because the new teaching philosophy presumes to provide the scaffolding while the parents (during their family time) are supposed to apply the brick and mortar. You know what? Not all of us are breathing a sigh of relief every time we drop our kids off at school. We actually like spending time with our kids. So bedtimes get pushed up and wake-up alarms as well. The public education system has become a burden on strong families; imagine what it is doing to the kids in troubled families. You think that those of us who want things to change are subject to every whim and fad of the “reformists”. You refuse to understand that we believe the education system has already succumbed to every whim and fad thrown out there by educational academics while abandoning methods that have been proven to work. Just teach my child. Leave some time for me to embellish the core teaching. If you can’t do that, then get the hell out of my way!
“Doctor decisions directly affect a person’s health. A doctor can administer a drug in the blink of an eye that can kill a person. Do you seriously think that a teacher can do this irreparable harm in an instant? Are you seriously comparing teachers to doctors in this way?”
Don’t think I said anything about an instant. The education system has 12 years to do the damage. Not all doctors kill by the direct administering of a procedure or a drug, but many kill by not providing the proper one.
“It should be difficult to replace someone on a whim in any job.”
It should not be nearly impossible to replace someone who is not good at their job.
“Now we get to the heart of it. Watch Fox News? Neo-liberal? Anti-union?”
It is YOU, and people like you, that make this “the heart of it”. My primary concern is not with the unions. When what the unions do to “help” public school teachers negatively impacts upon children, that is my purview. Teachers salaries (in Michigan) have historically been based on how long you’ve been teaching and what your education level is, regardless of the needs of the districts. This situation is based on union contracts. But even though teacher’s unions have been stymied in Michigan, they still manage to exert a powerful influence through their lobbying efforts which was the main point of my gripe. Read this all the way down to the last paragraph: http://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/serials/files/cato-journal/2010/1/cj30n1-8.pdf. Teachers’ unions vehemently oppose parent choice.
“The most important asset to a strong school system is its staff—by protecting a dedicated staff, YOUR children get a better education.”
A “better” education than what? Nothing? The best teacher in the world is limited by the curriculum that they are required to teach.
” Do some research instead of spewing the talking points of those who are influential enough to control the message. Without teachers unions, you would have teachers constantly moving from job to job looking for something better. How is THAT good for your community? It isn’t.”
I am not spewing talking points. These are my own thoughts, my own ideas, my own conclusions drawn from my own experience.
“That’s because “choice” is a misnomer. There will always be those who need to be protected from their lack of convictions. By allowing some people to take community funds to “go and get it,” you are leaving innocent children whose families do not have the wherewithal to do the same for their children behind in the neighborhoods.”
Sorry, LG. You do not get to have it both ways. I am responsible for my child first and foremost. I will do everything in my power to protect other children, but not to the detriment of my own. AND you have already told me that we should all be willing to impose on ourselves sever austerity measures (sell our homes, live with family or in our cars) in order to make sure our kids get the education they deserve. Did you mean to imply that was only for people of a certain income bracket?
” THAT is why choice is a bad idea.”
At least you admit it and I will not condemn you for your belief. I will not submit to it willingly, however.
“I agree that society has this responsibility, but to take only the promising children and put them in “better” situations does exactly what for those who are deemed “less promising?” They are innocents—they need to be protected and given a chance, but their communities are failing them. So now you’ve segregated the promising from the less promising. How can you judge this? Who are you to make this decision? ALL children are promising.”
I am no one. That does not mean that collectively we cannot evaluate to see who is most promising at a particular point in time. We do it all the time in every facet of life. Job interviews. Little league all-stars. Nobel peace prizes. It is decidedly more unfair, unjust, and sad that we would throw away those children who have shown an aptitude to claw their way out of their predicament through an education because it would somehow be unfair to the others (who you’ve already admitted are going to fail under the current system).
“A great many schools DO do this. There is no “one size fits all” approach.”
Not enough of them. And if you would be forced to teach outside of New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, Cincinnati, St. Louis, Philadelphia, etc., you would understand this.
” Throughout the year, children are referred for special services or tested for gifted tendencies. Children with special needs are also given the environments and the level of teaching they need. There is no “one size fits all” approach, and if this is going on, your county and state education departments need to know this.”
This is not JUST about those who need to be lifted up from the bottom. This is also about those who need to be pushed upward from the quicksand of mediocrity. According to our local teachers, NCLB did not allow students to be grouped according to ability so that teachers could be most efficient and children could be instructed according to their abilities throughout the day. All of the time and effort that went into determining which child would go with what teacher (and when you eliminate a class and there are only two teachers….well, those choices are fewer still) were based on personality (not ability), whether a parent would likely get along with a teacher, what friends (or enemies) the student had made, and whether or not some technology was available in a particular class that individual students had not yet had the advantage of being exposed to up until that point. This means that children were left to their own devices for large chunks of the day while the children were taken in “groups” for teacher directed instruction.
Yes, I could uproot my family, sell my house at a loss, declare bankruptcy, live with relatives, quit my job, sell everything I own to move to a different district, but that would NOT guarantee a great education for my child.
But don’t you think those of us who did do those things to try to guarantee a great education for your child deserve more credence than you’re giving us, and a good listen in any case?
No teacher goes into the profession for the money. This is a profession that committed, well-educated people take up as a calling, because we love children and/or we love the good things education does for children, for our towns and states and nation.
Don’t discount the views of those who sacrifice for your child.
Try again?
But don’t you think those of us who did do those things to try to guarantee a great education for your child deserve more credence than you’re giving us, and a good listen in any case?
No teacher goes into the profession for the money. This is a profession that committed, well-educated people take up as a calling, because we love children and/or we love the good things education does for children, for our towns and states and nation.
Don’t discount the views of those who sacrifice for your child.
Ed,
I am not discounting teachers. Teachers are defending the status quo. If I think the status quo is doing a disservice to many children, many teachers perceive that as an attack against them and that puts us at odds.
Read the comments here. I am not in the majority on this site. At least not the ones commenting. I take the time to comment at all because I do care about public education. It is the average person on this blog who would discount every potential problem I outline with the public education system and every potential solution.
The immediate conclusion that many of you jump to when I pose questions about curriculum is “what do you know about it?” “We are the professionals.” If you aren’t willing to listen to my arguments, aren’t willing to change or try something different, aren’t willing to even admit that what you are doing is not working very well, then wouldn’t it behoove you to just let me quietly slip away and do my own thing? But no. Many of you here would like to do away with any educational “choice” a parent might wish to try. So, I put the question to you. Since we gave birth to those children, love them like they are our own (wait, they are our own), shouldn’t we be given some credence and a good listen?
Yes, educational program choice is a healthy, viable option for parents and their children.
It exists within the auspices and jurisdiction of public schools and there need to be more options within the public school systems for choice of programs that best fit our children.
I have pursued educational program choice WITHIN the public school system both as a 30-year career educator and as a parent of 2 children, ages 24 and 21 who attended alternative choice schools within the public school system. These schools of choice have a 40-year history in our school district and are available to all parents as an option to the traditional schools within our district.
Studying and emulating successful educational program choices that currently exist in public school systems across the country such as STEM schools, Schools for the Performing Arts, Computer Software Engineering Schools, Progressive Schools with Integrated Studies is an option that does not seem to have a seat at the table of educational policy today.
Building hedge fund market investment opportunities for the purpose of profiteering off of our children is not the way to go with educational reform. It ignores the underlying problems of poverty and the breakdown of healthy, stable family networks for our children today. It continues to be driven by non-educators who mistakenly juxtapose a market driven, business driven paradigm upon the nuances and complexities that are integral to the healthy growth and development of our children, academically, emotionally and socially.
Every single tax dollar should be re-invested in our children; reconceptualizing our public school system so that it is a wrap around system, comparable to the successful Finland model. From the Apgar score to high school graduation, every extra dollar should invested in home/ school outreach, preschool programs, after school programs, health clinics, social workers, full time school nurses, guidance counselors, school pyschologists, expert instructors; regular ed, gifted and special educators, librarians.
Our hard earned tax dollars should be invested in rich curriculum and a wide array of resources to support authentic, engaging, creative, complex, collaborative instructional practices which include in addition to the “basics,” music, drama, technology and fine arts.
Currently in Ohio, we have a state budget that is continuing to fund a dual educational system by siphoning off our hard earned tax dollars, billions of dollars, from the more successful public school system, graduating 81 % of our students, to the charter system, graduating only 30 % of their students overall.
This is a 20-year experiment that is draining vital resources from our public school system; our school houses divided, cannot stand.
It is time to stop the experimentation and get on the same team, for our children and their futures.
Choice …. YES… within the Public School system.
Maureen,
Do you mind sharing what school district or city, county or state your school was in? What you have described I could support.
Do you think choice should only be something that individual school boards and districts decide for their community or an inherent educational “right” of all public school families?
Cindy, I come to my views through a bit of an odd route. I staffed the Senate Labor Committee in the 1980s, and then moved to the OERI at the Department of Education. We had a variety of reform efforts going — making ERIC and the Department of Education information system more friendly, responsive and useful to parents was my chief portfolio — and I occasionally drew the straw to go speak to education groups meeting in and around D.C. In a dozen or so appearances, at none of them was I not approached by a teacher who asked me how much time I had spent teaching. At the time, I’d spent just a year as a graduate fellow at Arizona, and teaching Boy Scouts and Scouters outdoor skills. Each time they’d tell me that I needed to spend time in the classroom, as a teacher, or I’d never understand. Even when they agreed with my topic and suggestions, they’d tell me I lacked the understanding.
Years later, I was asked to step in to an alternative high school to teach. Our kids were in junior high, I had served in four PTAs, I was often in classrooms . . . Alternative certification, into the classroom I went.
You know what? Those teachers I’d met earlier were right. Not only did I learn things I did not know any other way, I learned that there is no way to understand what teaching is, today, without experiencing it.
Sure, you should be listened to. But few parents, if any, have made the sacrifices teachers make to take care of your children and help them discover and realize their potentials.
Teachers have high incidences of urinary and kidney infections. Ever wonder why? Teachers are exempt from the Fair Labor Standards Act requirements that workers get fair breaks to relieve themselves.
But go one better — have you checked out the teacher bathrooms in most schools? Disney Corporation established the business point that clean restrooms make or break a business; it’s a key concept for labor negotiations in industries, it’s an important concept in recruiting lawyers and accountants (I’m a lawyer, and I spent much time with Ernst & Young — experience, again); airlines and airports spend millions of dollars on restrooms, to make the airports work (American Air, and a couple dozen airport committees across the U.S., Canada, Europe and Japan).
If I take away the toilets in your home, will your parenting be affected?
Ask your kids about their restrooms.
If you can’t help me get the plumbing in the building to work, yeah, I’ll listen and consider your views on curriculum, even when you ask that I do what is contrary to the state law, and contrary to what the administrators tell me I have to do to help your kids. I’ll consider your views.
When do you start helping out?
I appreciate your concern. I’m happy to listen to any parent. But I’m liable to think you know what you’re talking about only if you demonstrate that somehow. At Dallas ISD I had 20 minutes for lunch and mid-day bathroom break (one per day). Don’t be the parent yelling at me about my poor curriculum and my lousy communication skills when I missed your ambush meeting on my lunch minutes, when all the class material is posted on the class blog, when I have provided your student with 50 pages of the material he needs to know — printed on the printer I bought and supply, with paper I supply, out of my pocket, because the paper allotment at the school has run out — and it’s the same lousy curriculum I’ve been fighting against for years, but you couldn’t be bothered to come out to the five curriculum meetings I invited you to.
It’s nice to hear you’re on my side. But it’s difficult to hear your concerns because the inaction on getting the classroom to work at all is deafening. I’d like to give your advanced kid supplemental reading, but we’re not allowed to give library passes in any hour that corresponds with someone’s lunch, and your kid has already gone through the dozen sets of advanced supplements I’ve been able to afford to purchase.
So I’ve sacrificed my money, my retirement, my children’s education, to get your children better opportunities — and you sign a petition that takes away my job?
Excuse me, but you’re not convincing me that Irma Cobian’s firing was just.
And, by the way, Cobian’s firing did absolutely nothing to help your kids. In fact, hiring and training new staff will damage your kids’ educations. Such changes suck resources from the classrooms.
I’m still listening. I’m not insisting you walk a mile in my shoes. But my kids are out of college now. I know your view inside and out. I had shoes just like yours, and I wore them out. Twice.
Try “different?” I’ve spent $5,000 in the last four years to get advanced training on AP techniques, gifted-and-talented techniques, hard core history instruction that is not offered to history teachers (though the new state standards require it), on classroom activities and extra-classroom activities and support materials. My evaluations are pock-marked with, “that was different, but didn’t work,” and “I’ve never seen anything so brilliant before, but there’s not enough of it.” Incidentally, Dallas won’t count any of those classes for CEU credits, because they’re not offered by the District. Heck they won’t count much of the stuff they DO offer. (So I’ll suffer through four more sessions where I have to teach the CEU teacher how to do PowerPoints that rock . . .)
Yes, I want you to do your own thing. Don’t slip away and do it — but I need you to take your kid to the local art museum, to the nature center, shopping, and traveling out of state. I need you to read to and with your kids, stuff they need to have for the state tests that we don’t have time for in the classroom — and vitally, stuff they need to do well on the ACT and SAT to get into a good college, but which I cannot put into the curriculum because “it’s not tested, so don’t waste time on it.” (Yeah, my evaluations are pocked with those admonitions, too — “you’re teaching poetry in economics?”) It’s got to be “your own thing,” because we can’t do that stuff, at least, not subrosa.
When our kids were in school, I used to love “meet the teacher” night. With every teacher, I’d tell them that we wanted to hear about our kids’ progress, but we especially wanted to hear when the teachers needed help, not just for our kids, but for anything. We heard from the biology teachers who learned my wife and I have horticultural and botanical experience — my wife helped three dozen kids put together their leaf collections before the district stopped that (leaf collecting is not tested, and kids were finding a lot of air pollution damaged trees, and that caught the ire of the local Tea Party). We heard from the government teacher in AP government, who prepared a great grilling for former senate staffers. We heard from the band directors. One sun played Carnegie Hall, the other played the world premier of the Rosa Parks tribute in Chicago within days of her death. In every case where the teachers got back to us with requests, our kids got world-beating educations (and the scholarships to college to prove it).
On the other side? Every parent who has responded to my requests for help has a top-notch student.
I’m listening.
Tell me not what you think I’m doing wrong, but tell me what you can do right. And if you can help me deliver a great classroom experience to your kid, other kids will benefit from that. How can you help? I’m listening.
You want my opinion on signing petitions to get teachers fired?
Ed, what an astute post. As I read through it, I made connections to my own daily experiences. True, not every public school district is identical in operations, student/familial culture, and curricular offerings, but the similarities of your experiences and mine are astoundingly real.
In my career, I’ve had a decent amount of parents ask what they could do to help support their children, and even a handful ask what they could do for all the students who make their way into my classroom. These parents not only take an interest in their children’s education, they take an interest as partners in education with the teachers in the community. Their children have excellent role-models of civic-minded individuals guiding their personal development. Surely, these children will grow up to make sound contributions to society.
“…the fact that you think that I have to go back to school and get a teaching certificate to have anything of value to say about my daughter’s or my friends’ children’s or the children’s in my community education says more about your arrogance than it does about my educational ‘ignorance’.”
I’m sorry you took offense to that, but you must know that by viewing public education through the lens of just one family, a person runs the risk of over-simplifying the issues. This is why I suggest you to get credentialed and spend some time teaching to possess a more informed opinion.
“Yes, I could uproot my family, sell my house at a loss, declare bankruptcy, live with relatives, quit my job, sell everything I own to move to a different district, but that would NOT guarantee a great education for my child.”
No one said anything about declaring bankruptcy–that is far more extreme than downsizing one’s household and moving to a community where the schools represent what you want. No, it would not guarantee anything, but it certainly CAN make a difference for some people. I’ve seen families make all kinds of sacrifices for the opportunities in life that they value.
“Further, you distill everything down to black-and-white by suggesting that everyone who has a problem with education in public schools lives in a McMansion.”
Actually, I do not. The sense of absolutes in my example has been manufactured by you. I offered an example of how some folks choose to live in an environment of wants and then complain that it costs them too much to support their community. Obviously, excesses come in all shapes and sizes.
“Telling me how people live in Europe is irrelevant. The US is not Europe.”
I am delighted that you know your geography. However, again, an example of how people can live to make the sacrifices necessary for their families is quite relevant to my argument that many people in this country wish to live above their means in every department except when it comes to investing in their communities which includes schools. Many people live like royalty here compared to our counterparts in Europe which shows that our sense of cultural entitlement can be a problem here. Something is very wrong when people are willing to spend thousands of dollars each year on personal technology for themselves and their families and then complain about school taxes going up a few dollars a month each year. This is a very real situation in many communities.
“ ‘Did the deterioration of the school happen quickly or was it a gradual situation?’
It saved the district money. The same reason that a third grade classroom was eliminated at our local elementary school this past year.”
Districts all over the country suffered with the same issue. This is a political austerity measure not a fault of the school systems.
“A teacher could have been retained (or hired) if teachers were allowed to accept less money, but the union contracts will not let them (that is what I have been told).”
I have three suggestions for you: 1. Be certain that your sources are credible before you blame a union contract, and be certain that there was “no other way” to manage funding. 2. Be careful upon whom you are placing blame. Remember, contracts have two sides–the management and the employees. If the contract had specific language stipulating that teachers were not allowed to accept less money, that language was agreed upon by BOTH parties. For many people, it’s just easier to blame unions, but in reality, negotiations are about the balance between concession and offerings between two sides. I’d be willing to bet that there were other considerations on the table that either the public was not privy to or that would not suit your argument that a “union contract” was the problem. 3. If your district has been recovering fiscally, it’s time to lobby for that missing staff position to be replaced. I do not know of one district that has not reduced staff in the last three years, but of all the districts I know, all have been in a state of recovery where the money is now available to expand staff. I don’t know in which state you live, but you have a right to know how the money is being spent. Look into it, especially the staffing of non-teaching positions.
“I TRIED to work within the system. I’m not going to go into details (revisit my pointless argument). Suffice it to say that there is ingrained in our local school system (and those of my friends with whom I’ve discussed these same issues) to dismiss parents when they have objections, questions, or concerns. You guys know best. We parents know less.”
I have not found this to be true in the four school districts across two states in which I’ve worked. You will not go into detail why? You’ve written a book chapter here yet cannot explain how you’ve been wronged? Has your experience been the same in multiple districts in multiple geographical locales? It is important to write responsibly when you run the risk of coloring every school district the same based on personal experience. This is why I suggested you get your credentials and spend some time as an educator. You clearly have an interest.
“I’m sorry you have McMansions overshadowing your school buildings. We don’t. People in my community support the schools and the teachers; even those who don’t find it to be the ‘best it can be’.”
My district’s constituency is varied. It so happens that there is a new development behind my building, but a great deal of our students live in condos/townhouses and older, more modest homes. I’m glad that you support your teachers despite the union contracts your school board has agreed to that you find so wrong.
“ ‘You can never pay teachers what they are truly worth, so you partially compensate them with salary and the rest is part of the package to ease their living expenses.’
Perhaps teachers over the years have taken on more than what most of us parents want them to do which is why you believe they cannot be adequately compensated. In my case, I would like for the elementary school teachers to teach my child how to read, write, SPELL, and do math.”
They do far more than that on a daily basis. Allow me to add a few other things to that list: Teachers counsel, nurse, encourage, connect, persevere, supervise, hold high expectations for citizenship and hard work–I’m sure all of the teachers who post here could add to this list ad nauseum. Point is, they are credentialed, trained and depending on their experience, more and more expert with each passing day, just as anyone would be on any job. The public cannot pay them for their level of expertise and credentials in the same way the private sector can (and should) pay their counterparts with equal expertise and credentials. That is all I meant by that comment.
“I do not expect to have to TEACH my child ANY of those things at home because I send her to you (the TEACHER) seven hours a day, five days a week, nine months a year. If I see that my daughter and her classmates cannot do these things unless I, as the parent, spend many hours at home reinforcing those “teachings” and I, as the parent, have to spend time helping other children struggling to read at school, then I WILL conclude that the system is NOT working”
Your child is one if many–if your child is capable, you probably do not need to spend that time at home, but surely, you should take a vested interest in what is going on in her classroom and with homework. There are some children who need the support to focus at home. If you know that your child does not, then count yourself lucky. Not all parents can say the same.
“I want the teacher to HAVE expectations and I will stand WITH the teacher when there are problems. I WILL NOT automatically assume that the teacher is out to get my child. How much is that worth?”
To your child, that is priceless, but I’m sure you are not expecting someone to pat you on the back for doing your job as a parent.
“ ‘The standards are a nice idea in theory, but depending on the community and level of parental commitment, not all children have the same entry-level knowledge and skill level to even operate within the confines of what the standards expect.’
I don’t live in one of those districts.”
We all do, but some districts have a greater concentration of students who will struggle more than others. Some classes will, such as those with students whose special needs have not yet been identified.
“The Common Core standards do not expect any knowledge that I find unacceptable for children to know.”
I’ve had countless workshops on implementation and support for these standards, and I have only scratched the surface of when it comes to knowing them in depth. I see you are an expert on them. Perhaps districts should hire you to consult on their implementation.
“Again, you revert to the absolute extreme to devalue something that is supposed to be a way to make sure all children are being presented with the material that has been deemed ‘universal’ across State boundaries within the US.”
They are supposed to be “universal,” but clearly not all children are “standard-issue.” I still believe that emphases in curriculum should be made on the local level. Who is someone in California to tell me what I should know about my hometown in Louisiana? How is it fair that readings about farms and farm equipment are relevant to urban children who have no personal context? Do you see how advantages and disadvantages can be derived from standardizing every last little thing students are taught? This is not to say that children could not learn about these topics–it’s just that environments drive the need for specific knowledge in society. Now the Core Curriculum is a whole other ball of wax in regard to the level and soul-less nature of its content. You risk losing the rich and varied curricular programs when you standardize to this level of depth. Who will have time to teach it all? Students should not be forced to stay in school for countless hours in addition to what they have now just to “get it all in.”
“You cannot teach my daughter to reach her potential because some children aren’t capable, through lack of inherent ability or because of their home life, to perform to a common standard. You have provided the best reason for parents who do want what is best for their children and who do not have these problems to have a choice.”
You think your child is not challenged enough–that is a very big concern. Despite the fact that public education is for the public and the gifted are in the minority of the public (as are those with special needs), you ought to be able to lobby your school to provide opportunities for your child to have innovative learning experiences. Whether or not there is a gifted program, teachers should be differentiating instruction within the classroom. If they are not, administrations should be encouraging this and providing opportunities and training for teachers to include level targeting in their lessons whenever possible. This is a common practice in teacher training.
“ ‘American schools, by and large, are NOT failing.’
What is ‘failing’? I believe it is different to you than it is to me. Failing is any system that requires the parent of a bright child to spend hours at home making sure the child is proficient in the basics. You will not sway me from that belief. It is why I homeschool; that, and the fact that if I was unhappy when there were 26 kids in the class, I was going to be more unhappy with 30+ kids in the class.”
Yes, obviously you place value on your time enough to not want to “waste” it on what you consider frivolous topics that you expect should be mastered by your child. I will not guess the age of your child, but developmentally, every child is unique on the learning spectrum. Children do not operate on the exact same level consistently each and every year possibly with the exception of savants. A teacher who has your child for one year has the perspective of your child at this snapshot of child development. A teacher who has your child multiple years truly knows how children change and learn as they grow. There is no standard rate of growth which is another argument against a strict and detailed curriculum. There is little room to accommodate the child whose needs shift with each new learning experience. To expect mastery of what you call “the basics” is short-sighted. Once again, I encourage you to get credentialed and expose yourself to many different children and their learning styles over years to become more expert on these matters…especially if you are homeschooling. However, it most likely is impossible to homeschool while getting your degree yourself AND getting the experience I suggest you get. Can’t be in two places at once. However, your interest in what is happening in the schools warrants educating yourself about the job by doing the job in that setting.
“ ‘You make a blanket statement based on just what experience exactly?’
I was helping struggling readers in both the 2nd and 3rd grade at my daughter’s school. These were children who could not read ‘picture’ books fluently but who did not qualify for Title I targeted assistance…These children could have achieved fluency if they had been taught phonics instead of sight words. That is just one example. I could give you a whole list of problems I saw. This is not an inner-city school or even a poor school district. It is just middle of the road, Midwestern America.”
That is a start. Years ago in my district, teachers had to hide the phonics books from their supervisors during the “whole language” experiment that schools endured. I would lobby your local school to reinstate a phonics-driven approach to literacy. Sounds like your school district needs a reading program not unlike “Jump Start to Literacy” where children visit the Jump Start classroom. They receive more individualized instruction on using reading strategies and are encouraged to conquer leveled readers in a more personalized environment. You should know that what you describe happening in Midwestern America is not the norm in ALL of America, therefore it is not a fair statement to paint all American schools with the same brush. No system is perfect, and everything from tweaks to overhauls happen all the time.
LG, (Part 2)
“Reformers are still at it, but you can thank the decades of illl-placed reformist ideas for one of what you feel is missing from the current “methods.” I’d be interested in hearing more about which methods you are referencing that used to work and which that you claim are not working. Apparently you have the time to write–why not detail your treatise on educational methods?
I don’t know what you want me to detail. I was taught phonics, how to go to the dictionary to figure out how to pronounce a word I didn’t know, I was taught the “schwa” sound in first grade. We had to be able to diagram sentences, we had to know our math facts, and we had to practice, practice, practice. I don’t remember one child having a reading problem anywhere near the poor reading abilities I saw in my daughter’s school AND everyone knew how to spell; a skill that is just going, going, gone.
“The education system has 12 years to do the damage. Not all doctors kill by the direct administering of a procedure or a drug, but many kill by not providing the proper one.”
I think you’ve made up your mind that no one is good enough to teach throughout any child’s 13 years (most states offer Kindergarten), yet you don’t blame teachers for the lack of a child’s educational development. Yes, teachers are beholden to the curricular decisions their supervisors have adopted, but they truly are responsible for teaching children, not making curricular decisions. I have seen teachers supplement the curriculum with enrichment activities. It’s common practice in districts that aren’t run by reformist-thugs who would “bring a teacher up on charges” for actually teaching students something that the supervisors have not mandated. A district that squelches academic freedom needs to be overhauled.”
I’ve seen what some of those “thugs” have trotted out there to get upset about. I agree with you on a lot of it. However, I’ve also seen some things that teachers put before a child that I disagree with as a parent. One example I saw recently was a language arts program that was teaching students to use the word “nag” to describe how a mother asks her child more than once to do a chore. You can point at the whackadoos who will have a problem with everything teachers do, but take some responsibility for the ill-conceived teaching materials being used.
“My primary concern is not with the unions. When what the unions do to ‘help’ public school teachers negatively impacts upon children, that is my purview.”
Again, evidence PLEASE. Without it, you are spewing rhetoric. In what way HAVE unions helped public school teachers that negatively impacts upon children?”
When teachers unions take their money and use it to lobby against choices, that is harming children and families. You disagree.
“Teachers’ unions vehemently oppose parent choice.”
Why should parents get to decide how taxpayers’ money is spent? Educating a community is making an investment in said community. It isn’t for one elite group of people who happen to have children. Every citizen reaps the benefits of an educated society–the schools belong to us all, not just parents.”
Parents don’t get to decide. The elected officials decide if we get to decide based on what their constituents want.
“So you’d hold that teacher’s job over his head despite the fact that you disagree with the curriculum? You need to get your story straight about who to blame. A dedicated teaching staff is good for the community.”
No. My response was to leave the system. If the curriculum is bad and this is why students perform poorly and the testing is used to put the blame on teachers, I suspect a lot of teachers will start being more vocal about the curriculum.
But let me tell you this. When I was researching the Daily 5’s and CAFÉ curriculum I heard a lot of teachers touting the program because it “made their job easier”; not because it necessarily was the best way to teach children to read and write.
“That’s funny–these ideas sound awfully familiar among the homeschooling segment of the population. Let’s see if I have these points correct: All American public schools have an unreliable curriculum, teachers should not be compensated for experience and advanced education, schools have failed every child, unions are negatively impacting children, etc. We’ve heard this rhetoric before, yet you claim that you came up with it by yourself with absolutely no influence from anyone else? If you say so, who am I to say differently?”
Revisit my response relative to my college communications class.
You still haven’t explained what injuries your own child has endured with the education of “OPPs/OPCs.” Your child can benefit from immersion in most learning environments. What is the purpose of schooling? To develop future citizens. As such, no child should learn in a vacuum.”
Children with OPC (I don’t say OPP because that is also a derogatory term used in a rap song) do affect the classroom. At my daughter’s school, a whole classroom of students could be removed from the classroom to another classroom while a particular child was brought back down from being over stimulated. Socially challenged children from other classrooms were sent to sit “quietly” in neighboring classrooms. But there were other constant disruptions from use of in-class restrooms, handwashing, switching centers, etc.
Sorry, I’ve run out of time and energy, so I did not get to all of your questions. I do hope, for your sake and the sake of the education system, that parents and teachers and politicians can start working together.
“I am not blaming any individual teacher, per se. I am blaming the system. YOU are the one who equates an attack on the system as an attack on teachers. Yet, there are individual teachers who are not doing a good job and it IS almost impossible to get rid of them unless they do something outrageous (crazy).”
Actually, a district can and should give a poor teacher an opportunity to improve or take steps to remove him. If the administration chooses not to take either if these actions, that is the fault of the administration. What you believe to be true is based in rhetoric. Instead, know that there are systems in place for dismissal of any teacher as long as there is proof of the necessity of the action.
“ ‘Yet, the mantra of those whom you apparently listen to is that the teacher and the child’s school are the ONLY influences on a child’s learning.’ You presume I ‘listen’ to a bunch of other people and am not capable of forming an opinion of my own. Oh well. But teachers are, in fact, THAT powerful if only due to the sheer amount of time they spend with our children.”
If this power truly exists, why is it that so many children do not follow directions or come prepared to school? The outside influences can and often are much more powerful than that of the teacher.
“ ‘I cannot tell you how many children in primary grades come to school having not slept enough the night before or who are sick or hungry, and this is in the McMansion neighborhood in which I teach.’
The public education system has become a burden on strong families;…”
Evidence, PLEASE.
“…imagine what it is doing to the kids in troubled families.”
How dramatic of you. This would be an effective statement with proof and examples, but you are simply stating something you wish to be true.
“You think that those of us who want things to change are subject to every whim and fad of the ‘reformist’. You refuse to understand that we believe the education system has already succumbed to every whim and fad thrown out there by educational academics while abandoning methods that have been proven to work. Just teach my child. Leave some time for me to embellish the core teaching. If you can’t do that, then get the hell out of my way!”
Reformers are still at it, but you can thank the decades of illl-placed reformist ideas for one of what you feel is missing from the current “methods.” I’d be interested in hearing more about which methods you are referencing that used to work and which that you claim are not working. Apparently you have the time to write–why not detail your treatise on educational methods?
“The education system has 12 years to do the damage. Not all doctors kill by the direct administering of a procedure or a drug, but many kill by not providing the proper one.”
I think you’ve made up your mind that no one is good enough to teach throughout any child’s 13 years (most states offer Kindergarten), yet you don’t blame teachers for the lack of a child’s educational development. Yes, teachers are beholden to the curricular decisions their supervisors have adopted, but they truly are responsible for teaching children, not making curricular decisions. I have seen teachers supplement the curriculum with enrichment activities. It’s common practice in districts that aren’t run by reformist-thugs who would “bring a teacher up on charges” for actually teaching students something that the supervisors have not mandated. A district that squelches academic freedom needs to be overhauled.
“’It should be difficult to replace someone on a whim in any job.’
It should not be nearly impossible to replace someone who is not good at their job.”
It isn’t “nearly impossible.” You need proof that “someone is not good at their job.” And how do you judge this? There are so many complexities in the art of teaching that it is fairly difficult to quantify good teaching without the proper training. An observer must be experienced in teaching and trained to recognize the many processes involved in the act of teaching and also be an expert in classroom dynamics. People study these processes for many years before becoming somewhat “expert,” yet so many in the general public throw around terms like “teacher quality” when they want to make a case for their discontent with some facet of learning outcomes whether it be based on something their own children are exhibiting or based on something that exists to further a political agenda. In any case, the evaluation process is multi-faceted and in-depth. It cannot be simplified in the phrase “not good at their job.” What does that even look like?
“My primary concern is not with the unions. When what the unions do to ‘help’ public school teachers negatively impacts upon children, that is my purview.”
Again, evidence PLEASE. Without it, you are spewing rhetoric. In what way HAVE unions helped public school teachers that negatively impacts upon children?
“Teachers salaries (in Michigan) have historically been based on how long you’ve been teaching and what your education level is, regardless of the needs of the districts. This situation is based on union contracts. But even though teacher’s unions have been stymied in Michigan, they still manage to exert a powerful influence through their lobbying efforts which was the main point of my gripe.”
First off, why would you not want workers to have the opportunity to band together to negotiate a collective contract? Do you seriously think that these employees have the time and the expertise to sit down as individuals and fight for the nature of compensation that is reasonable for them to continue working in the capacity?
Secondly, why would you discount experience and credentials? Again, would you rather a novice surgeon operate on you or someone who has devoted the time to learn how to do the job better and better with each procedure? Why is it that senior partners in any private firm make the biggest decisions and, in turn, command the highest salaries? People with more experience and advanced training are more valuable due to their expanded general knowledge and focused experiential knowledge. This isn’t a difficult concept to understand yet so many in the general public would act as if there is no value in experience and advanced training when it comes to teachers. Why?
“Teachers’ unions vehemently oppose parent choice.”
Why should parents get to decide how taxpayers’ money is spent? Educating a community is making an investment in said community. It isn’t for one elite group of people who happen to have children. Every citizen reaps the benefits of an educated society–the schools belong to us all, not just parents.
LG,
I am not viewing public education through the lens of just one family. I am not a reactionary person. I am 48-years-old with a 9-year-old daughter. Most of my friends have children who are grown or who are sending their kids off to college or getting ready to. When I first started to become disillusioned/concerned with the curriculum, I talked to my friends first who had been there. I heard many of the same concerns/experiences from them. Then I researched it further. I put a name (Whole Language, Center-Based, Student-Led) to what I saw through research. I approached the teachers and the principal; not confrontationally, but not as milktoast, either. In response, I was given stacks of books that were supposed to set my mind at ease. I stuck with it through 2nd grade. I probably would have continued to stick it out if a 3rd grade class had not been eliminated. I was not the only one at the school who did not like what they saw. Several families chose to send their children to private school and several others decided to homeschool and several took advantage of schools of choice hoping the pastures was greener elsewhere. I don’t blame the teachers. I blame the curriculum, but the teachers support the curriculum (what should I feel?)
When I said moving could cause bankruptcy, I was not being overly dramatic. That is how bad our residential market is at the moment. Even though sales are starting to pick up, home values have fallen 30% to 40% since 2008.
I made plenty of sacrifices for the school, but I grew tired of sacrificing family time. The curriculum required it. It was not because the children were unprepared, dumb, or didn’t care. There were no textbooks. Instead, children were given photocopied half-sheets of paper each morning with what I call an “appetizer” of either language arts questions (4 or 5) or math problems (4 or 5 and which were mainly word problems). The work was attempted independently for about 5 to 10 minutes and then the kids corrected the work together via the teacher providing the answer and explanation on the Elmo. The papers were immediately placed by the student in their take-home folders. They were never seen by the teacher.
I have every single paper. If you are interested, I would be happy to photocopy them and send them to you. I found many errors that did not get corrected and which the teacher was unaware of. Sometimes there were no erasures, so I asked my daughter if she did all the work herself before the sheet was corrected together; sometimes she had and sometimes she hadn’t. Sometimes she just filled in what the teacher wrote on the Elmo. I also found silly answers that were erased because some other kid in class told my daughter to put that answer there, even though she was perfectly capable of arriving at the right answer by herself. The school uses Daily 5’s and CAFÉ. The children are in groups working together or working independently during much (most?) of the classroom time while the teacher works with the smaller groups of children. No tests, quizzes, or practice work (except Math Liftoff which was administered by PTO volunteers – don’t get me started on that) were administered except for quarterly assessments (not standardized).
All the things that I “mastered” at school when I was a kid I was now being expected to do as a parent at home. Those of us who knew what was required for our children to remain on target, did what we had to do. Many of the younger parents, or parents who did not have the time or ability, did not. Consequently, the test scores between the highest and lowest 30% were hugely disproportionate and the school was placed on a watch llst. Did anyone at the school say it was the curriculum’s fault? No, it was parents or budget cuts. Period. End of story.
“Actually, I do not. The sense of absolutes in my example has been manufactured by you. I offered an example of how some folks choose to live in an environment of wants and then complain that it costs them too much to support their community. Obviously, excesses come in all shapes and sizes.”
LG, you mentioned the McMansions a number of times. I concluded you thought that was a big and pervasive problem and/or you assumed I live in a McMansion and I am just ticked off that I am being pulled away from my French manicure and highlights. We are neither rich nor poor. I don’t have fingernails (at least not ones worth a manicure).
“Telling me how people live in Europe is irrelevant. The US is not Europe.”
“I am delighted that you know your geography.”
SIGH. I’ll chalk that up to your bad week.
“Something is very wrong when people are willing to spend thousands of dollars each year on personal technology for themselves and their families and then complain about school taxes going up a few dollars a month each year. This is a very real situation in many communities.”
Just tell me how much money you think I should spend that would solve the problem. Then we can have a jumping off point. When we were in school, in addition to my local taxes, I sent in snacks, pencils, hand sanitizer, tissues, crayons, paid for out of my own pocket and planned parties, volunteered all over the place, I even bought the teachers a Keurig coffee machine better than the one I have at home for their lounge.
“Districts all over the country suffered with the same issue. This is a political austerity measure not a fault of the school systems.”
Trust me when I say that it is not political austerity. At least not to the extent that it is being made out to be. The Michigan economy took a nosedive. We were hemorrhaging jobs and people were moving out of state. With property values falling 35%, tax revenues plummeted. The amount being collected in taxes for schools dropped. The amount being redistributed back to the schools, therefore, also dropped.
As for blaming a union contract, if teachers want to pass the blame onto them or feel powerless at their hands, then do not blame me for repeating what I am told. Several things were passed along as the result of union contract, including teachers not overseeing the students at lunchtime, etc.
“If your district has been recovering fiscally, it’s time to lobby for that missing staff position to be replaced. I do not know of one district that has not reduced staff in the last three years, but of all the districts I know, all have been in a state of recovery where the money is now available to expand staff. I don’t know in which state you live, but you have a right to know how the money is being spent. Look into it, especially the staffing of non-teaching positions.”
I’ve looked at the budgets. Here is our district expenditures:
Instruction (teachers, paraprofessionals) $16,096,491 (66.35%)
Pupil Support Services (medical, psychological, etc.) $1,269,074 (5.23%)
Instructional Staff Support Services (Teaching/Testing Supplies) $999,500 (4.12%)
General Administration (Superintendents, etc.) $625,223 (2.58%)
School Administration (Principals, etc.) $1,342,708 (5.53%)
Business Services (purchasing, maintaining goods and svcs) $472,043 (1.95%)
Operations and Maint. (keep bldgs. standing) $1,931,575 (7.96%)
Transportation (buses) $811,354 (3.34%)
Central & Other Support $166,509 (.69%)
Total $23,714,477 (97.75%)
The rest of the budget goes to debt. About 80% is for teacher, support staff, and administrator salaries. This includes 3 elementary schools, a middle school and a high school. I don’t know how they could spend much more on teacher salaries by redirecting from other groups.
“I have not found this to be true in the four school districts across two states in which I’ve worked. You will not go into detail why? You’ve written a book chapter here yet cannot explain how you’ve been wronged? Has your experience been the same in multiple districts in multiple geographical locales? It is important to write responsibly when you run the risk of coloring every school district the same based on personal experience. This is why I suggested you get your credentials and spend some time as an educator. You clearly have an interest.
I have always said that I am talking from personal experience. I am no more making generalizations than those of you who respond to me that I don’t know what I’m talking about because your student are walking to school through a hail of bullets and may not have had anything to eat for several days. That does not reflect my school district, the school district neighboring ours, the other school districts in our county or most of the school districts in our state. The only school district that might have a similar problem is Detroit, possibly Flint.
“I’m glad that you support your teachers despite the union contracts your school board has agreed to that you find so wrong.”
I detect condescension. The system is a leviathan. It operates as one big entity. Not all the parts are bad. I can support its parts without liking the whole which is slow to change and really doesn’t want my or any other parent’s advice or opinion regarding its chosen curriculum or teaching methods. Funny story, though. After I decided to homeschool, I was on the school site trying to find the link to the state standards and curriculum choices at each grade level. I noticed that our school district website had ONLY pictures of the high school football team and its related entities; cheerleaders, painted up fans, and the band. I immediately hopped over to our “rival” district’s site and I was greeted with pictures of smiling students in their classrooms and on field trips, etc. I posted the difference on facebook and spoke to my friends still in the system. I could have called the superintendent, but I felt like the fact that I was homeschooling made me an interloper of sorts. Anyway, the website pictures were modified shortly thereafter. If what I said had any influence on this change, it was probably less about wanting to please a constituent and more to do with falling in lockstep with our “rival”.
“Your child is one if many–if your child is capable, you probably do not need to spend that time at home, but surely, you should take a vested interest in what is going on in her classroom and with homework. There are some children who need the support to focus at home. If you know that your child does not, then count yourself lucky. Not all parents can say the same.”
As I said, the curriculum required that much of becoming “proficient” occurred at home, regardless of the talents of the child or the ability of the family to help them.
“I’ve had countless workshops on implementation and support for these standards, and I have only scratched the surface of when it comes to knowing them in depth. I see you are an expert on them. Perhaps districts should hire you to consult on their implementation.”
What is an expert? I’ve read through them all for my daughter’s grade level, and the next. I don’t know where you are, but the State of New York (I’m from Michigan, but I’m happy to make use of every resource out there) has a very nice online resource showing examples of each CC skill and sample problems. I believe every child should be exposed to these expectations. If they can’t achieve them, then that should be addressed either individually or collectively within the school or district if it is a district-wide problem.
They are supposed to be “universal,” but clearly not all children are “standard-issue.” I still believe that emphases in curriculum should be made on the local level. Who is someone in California to tell me what I should know about my hometown in Louisiana? How is it fair that readings about farms and farm equipment are relevant to urban children who have no personal context? Do you see how advantages and disadvantages can be derived from standardizing every last little thing students are taught? This is not to say that children could not learn about these topics–it’s just that environments drive the need for specific knowledge in society. Now the Core Curriculum is a whole other ball of wax in regard to the level and soul-less nature of its content. You risk losing the rich and varied curricular programs when you standardize to this level of depth. Who will have time to teach it all? Students should not be forced to stay in school for countless hours in addition to what they have now just to “get it all in.”
The CC is not designed to tell Louisianans what they should teach about their state or communities. This is math and language arts. And even if it were not restricted to these two subjects, there would still be ability to teach about local and state interests and concerns.
“You think your child is not challenged enough–that is a very big concern. Despite the fact that public education is for the public and the gifted are in the minority of the public (as are those with special needs), you ought to be able to lobby your school to provide opportunities for your child to have innovative learning experiences. Whether or not there is a gifted program, teachers should be differentiating instruction within the classroom. If they are not, administrations should be encouraging this and providing opportunities and training for teachers to include level targeting in their lessons whenever possible. This is a common practice in teacher training.”
There is no gifted program at any of the district elementary schools in my district. Anyway, I do not believe my daughter is “gifted”. I believe she is bright and what is considered average is below her capabilities and those of most of the other children.
“Yes, obviously you place value on your time enough to not want to “waste” it on what you consider frivolous topics that you expect should be mastered by your child….. To expect mastery of what you call “the basics” is short-sighted.”
I disagree. Is there any way for me to believe my child should master the basics of language arts and math AT school without me being considered an idiot?
“Years ago in my district, teachers had to hide the phonics books from their supervisors during the “whole language” experiment that schools endured. I would lobby your local school to reinstate a phonics-driven approach to literacy. Sounds like your school district needs a reading program not unlike “Jump Start to Literacy” where children visit the Jump Start classroom. They receive more individualized instruction on using reading strategies and are encouraged to conquer leveled readers in a more personalized environment. You should know that what you describe happening in Midwestern America is not the norm in ALL of America, therefore it is not a fair statement to paint all American schools with the same brush. No system is perfect, and everything from tweaks to overhauls happen all the time.”
They have stopped calling it Whole Language even though that is what it is. My friends from South Carolina to Chicago describe a very similar approach to reading using sight words, guessing, absolutely no value placed on spelling, and no ability or skills to sound out difficult words which have not been memorized. We haven’t even touched on Math, which is of the Everyday Math variety. I hear from parents all across the country having these same problems.
“What you believe to be true is based in rhetoric. Instead, know that there are systems in place for dismissal of any teacher as long as there is proof of the necessity of the action.”
Absolutely EVERY person I’ve spoken with, teacher or parent, has at least one teacher who has been there forever that EVERYONE from parents, students and other teachers thinks is incompetent or just plain biding their time until retirement.
“If this power truly exists, why is it that so many children do not follow directions or come prepared to school? The outside influences can and often are much more powerful than that of the teacher.”
Because they aren’t required to follow directions at school. Teachers do not know how (and/or not allowed) to be strict with children. While many times this is a result of PC enforced upon the schools, I cannot tell you the number of conversations I’ve had personally where a parent’s expectations are considered to be too “strict” from the teacher’s perspective.
“ ‘I cannot tell you how many children in primary grades come to school having not slept enough the night before or who are sick or hungry, and this is in the McMansion neighborhood in which I teach.’
The public education system has become a burden on strong families;…”
Evidence, PLEASE.”
You can either believe me or not. Other parents within our school system grumbled about the same thing. Too much of our time be taken up at home on things we expected our children would be taught in school. What would you consider evidence?
““…imagine what it is doing to the kids in troubled families.”
How dramatic of you. This would be an effective statement with proof and examples, but you are simply stating something you wish to be true.”
Our school had a gap wide enough between the lowest test scores and highest test scores to be put on a watch list.
This was, in my opinion, a direct result of the fact that the teaching methods/curriculum required too much parent involvement.
end of Part 1
“ ‘The most important asset to a strong school system is its staff—by protecting a dedicated staff, YOUR children get a better education.’
A ‘better’ education than what? Nothing? The best teacher in the world is limited by the curriculum that they are required to teach.”
So you’d hold that teacher’s job over his head despite the fact that you disagree with the curriculum? You need to get your story straight about who to blame. A dedicated teaching staff is good for the community.
“I am not spewing talking points. These are my own thoughts, my own ideas, my own conclusions drawn from my own experience.”
That’s funny–these ideas sound awfully familiar among the homeschooling segment of the population. Let’s see if I have these points correct: All American public schools have an unreliable curriculum, teachers should not be compensated for experience and advanced education, schools have failed every child, unions are negatively impacting children, etc. We’ve heard this rhetoric before, yet you claim that you came up with it by yourself with absolutely no influence from anyone else? If you say so, who am I to say differently?
“ ‘There will always be those who need to be protected from their lack of convictions. By allowing some people to take community funds to ‘go and get it,’ you are leaving innocent children whose families do not have the wherewithal to do the same for their children behind in the neighborhoods.’
“You do not get to have it both ways.”
Who said? As a member of this society, you have the privilege of the freedoms this society affords you, but nothing is free. You have a responsibility, as a citizen, to support your community.
“I am responsible for my child first and foremost. I will do everything in my power to protect other children, but not to the detriment of my own.”
You still haven’t explained what injuries your own child has endured with the education of “OPPs/OPCs.” Your child can benefit from immersion in most learning environments. What is the purpose of schooling? To develop future citizens. As such, no child should learn in a vacuum.
“…AND you have already told me that we should all be willing to impose on ourselves sever austerity measures (sell our homes, live with family or in our cars) in order to make sure our kids get the education they deserve. Did you mean to imply that was only for people of a certain income bracket?”
Austerity in a society is very different from learning to cut personal expenses for those who can. Austerity, as our politicians would have it, means to cut social programs for the needy. What I propose is to cut out wants, not needs. If you want your children each to have their own bedrooms, great, but if you cannot afford a house with that much room, they can learn to share. Wants vs. needs.
” ‘THAT is why choice is a bad idea.,
At least you admit it and I will not condemn you for your belief. I will not submit to it willingly, however.”
Admit what? You misunderstood what I said, and now you are accusing me of a double standard when there is none.
“ ‘So now you’ve segregated the promising from the less promising. How can you judge this? Who are you to make this decision? ALL children are promising.’
I am no one. That does not mean that collectively we cannot evaluate to see who is most promising at a particular point in time. We do it all the time in every facet of life. Job interviews. Little league all-stars. Nobel peace prizes.”
Job interviews are not to determine the usefulness of the skills of developing children. Just because little-league all-stars are chosen does not mean they should be competing against one another at that age. What would you do with the information regarding who is “promising” (whatever that even means) at which point in time? Children all have their own rate of development.
“It is decidedly more unfair, unjust, and sad that we would throw away those children who have shown an aptitude to claw their way out of their predicament through an education because it would somehow be unfair to the others (who you’ve already admitted are going to fail under the current system).”
I have not admitted that they may fail BECAUSE OF the system–it is the community that fails them. Aptitude is often over-rated when it comes to children. How many child prodigies become the flavor-of-the-month when they are children only to be cast aside when the rest of the population catches up with them as young adults? Children are developing all the time–some develop certain skills earlier than others. This is nature. No one is excluded from learning because he or she is not average. It is up to the learner to find the value in learning–to value the experience with curiosity and wonder. The best way we as adults can serve children is to help foster the notion that every experience is worthwhile on some level. It’s important that adults refrain from putting their own anxieties on children so that they can develop an emotional narrative of positivity toward learning in any environment.
“ ‘A great many schools DO do this. There is no ‘one size fits all’ approach.
Not enough of them. And if you would be forced to teach outside of New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, Cincinnati, St. Louis, Philadelphia, etc., you would understand this.”
I have taught in four differing “markets”–none of which are in your list.
” ‘Throughout the year, children are referred for special services or tested for gifted tendencies. Children with special needs are also given the environments and the level of teaching they need. There is no “one size fits all” approach, and if this is going on, your county and state education departments need to know this.’
This is not JUST about those who need to be lifted up from the bottom. This is also about those who need to be pushed upward from the quicksand of mediocrity.”
You missed the part I wrote about gifted children. I get it–you think your local schools are not challenging your child because he or she is above-average. Every time I sit down at a conference with the parents of a child who is not struggling, I am faced with a parent who feels their child is somehow highly above-average and wants me to do something about it. I listen to their concerns, and often I see a competitive spirit or one where they have extremely high goals for their child. Goals are great, but children do not always travel the paths their parents map out or them.
“According to our local teachers, NCLB did not allow students to be grouped according to ability so that teachers could be most efficient and children could be instructed according to their abilities throughout the day.”
There are times when ability is purely academic, but academic development is not independent of social and emotional development. There are reasons for grouping students that are often contingent on the nature of the learning taking place.
“All of the time and effort that went into determining which child would go with what teacher (and when you eliminate a class and there are only two teachers….well, those choices are fewer still) were based on personality (not ability), whether a parent would likely get along with a teacher, what friends (or enemies) the student had made, and whether or not some technology was available in a particular class that individual students had not yet had the advantage of being exposed to up until that point. This means that children were left to their own devices for large chunks of the day while the children were taken in ‘groups’ for teacher directed instruction.”
Sounds like some odd choices for grouping. While I agree that personalities can change the dynamics of a classroom and ought to be taken into consideration especially at the elementary level, social concerns should not be the only ones.
I have had a particularly taxing week at school which is the reason for the lateness of this reply, but I wanted to respond to you because you genuinely seem to care about the state of education. I am glad that you do and hope you continue to dialogue about it.
LG,
I am responding in two parts because you appear to like to check off lists and respond to each paragraph. I find that frustrating and cumbersome, but I’ll oblige out of respect.
I don’t know if you ever feel this way, but when I say something enough times, and argue the same point (from every direction) with no meeting of the minds, I start to feel like any further argument/discussion is pointless. I want to go curl up on the floor like an old dog and sleep in the sunshine.
I don’t really have time to respond. I take time because this is so important.
I am out of the system now, and despite all the good I think public education has to offer, I am happy, my daughter is happy and thriving, and I no longer have to deal with the morning car line (that is an attempt at humor and levity, by the way).
I believe that my daughter is getting an education right now at home equivalent to a top-rate, exclusive, private elementary school. I feel very blessed that I can give it to her. When I wrote the principal to tell her we would not be returning this year, I shed real tears and my heart was heavy; for me, for my daughter, and for all the teachers and children at the school whom I had personally grown to care for. I am not cold-hearted. I am practical. I cannot stand by and conform. I am a problem solver. If the system does not allow for that, what would you have me do? How many years should I give a school to force a curriculum on my daughter that I don’t think is best for her? How many years should I stand by as they tell me that because my daughter is not a problem and is performing at or above average that I should be satisfied? I have no illusions that my daughter is a genius. I am NOT one of those parents who teachers like to patronize that thinks my child is smarter than everyone else. I saw average. It wasn’t pretty or inspiring or worthy of praise.
At some point, everyone is going to have to take responsibility for what is not working in schools; not just parents, not just the community at large, and not just politicians. When I was in college, I had a communications class that I took on a whim. It turns out that it was one of the most important classes I ever took. The professor, after several weeks of having us discuss topics in groups, had each of us fill out a 3 x 5 index card critiquing each of our fellow students. Every person then received the index cards that pertained to them. Talk about having to come face-to-face with yourself through other people’s eyes! You just cannot deny “everything” you perceive as negative when you see it repeated over and over again in black-and-white. And I say this with the utmost respect for you and for all teachers, you need to start reading those cards and stop dismissing us one-by-one as mouthpieces for the capitalist, neo-liberal reformists. While the process is painful, the end results can be very rewarding. In my communications class we repeated the process at the end of the year, and I do believe that every person in that class saw growth and left with information and skills that served them in many areas of their future lives.
I would venture to guess that we are probably at the same level of frustration. You want to be left alone to do your job without any meddling. I want to be left alone to do what is educationally best for my child without people trying to limit my options in that respect. I probably would have been content to read Diane’s blog posts and remain silent if I did not see so much blame being placed on parents and supporters of educational options as tantamount to trying to dismantle public education. I do not think that is fair and I do not think it is an accurate representation of what I saw personally and what other friends have described to me or what I see in my state overall.
When teachers are very frustrated and speak candidly on these blog comments, I “hear” that they think parents who choose options other than public school are part of the problem, are undermining public education, are not making informed choices, and should not be ALLOWED to have a choice in a perfect world. I have a problem with that.
I’ve known a number of teachers who have chosen to homeschool their own children and I read about that choice all the time in blogs and articles. Plenty of public school teachers send their children to private schools. So, if teachers are the only ones who can truly make an informed educational decision, this should suggest that there are some good reasons under certain circumstances to choose options other than public schools.
We are all in this thing together. If we can teach children in public school to celebrate our cultural differences, why is it so hard to accept that we might have other differences as well that are also important to honor? These differences might include our educational preferences influenced by our personal family expectations and individual learning styles? Is it too much to ask that public schools place as high a value on personal family time as they do on the time that children spend at school under the care and tutelage of teachers?
While those issues get sorted out, this old dog will take long naps in the sunshine WITH her child. When we drive by our old school, we smile as we reflect fondly on all of the positive memories. But we also rejoice in the freedom to explore what works for us; not just rich curriculum but cultural opportunities within our community, our state, and our country
Cindy said:
Parents who undermine schools are an ENORMOUS part of the problem.
Are you doing your own thing? More power to you.
Are you insisting on a charter school that literally sucks money out of the public school? That’s unfair, and destructive to America.
Do you insist on vouchers, which suck money from public schools and, perversely, can never be used to help public schools? That’s unfair, and destructive to America.
Do you insist on “teacher accountability,” asking why I don’t spend the full 55 minutes with your Downs’ Syndrome child in 5th period, when I have 36 students? Then you’re venal, and selfish.
You have the choice, as we all do, of taking your kid out of the public schools to improve their education, at your own expense. The money the public schools would have spent on your child is not money that is “owed to you.” It’s money we use to run our democratic institutions, to make our republic work, and without which everybody else’s kid doesn’t get educated.
Can you teach your child well? More power to you. Are you homeschooling because you deny the science of biology, or the science of geology, or chemistry or physics? Are you homeschooling because you found a bad word in The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn and you decided no child “should read that filth?” Are you homeschooling so your child won’t have to attend school with others who will grow up and discover they are homosexual?
You have that right — at your own expense. If your child ventures out of your home at any time, she or he is likely to discover you didn’t know what you’re talking about, but you won’t be able to go to the school board and complain about the teachers.
We’re all for our own children; the big question is, are you also for the children of the nation? My father, my grandfathers, my great grandfathers (and mothers) built schools so that I could get better opportunities. But to do that, they built schools that offer all children better opportunities. Unless everybody has opportunities to get ahead, no one has the opportunities they should have.
Thank you for caring for your child. Perhaps your decision to home school was the right one — I’ll assume it was.
But please don’t assume that you’re the only one who should have that right, or that everyone else is stupid, or evil. It’s great you have that opportunity, in this age when 75% of families need two people out of the home working to pay the bills.
Don’t pull the ladder up after you.
Cindy,
This discussion is very important, we need to find common ground for our children’s futures. We have the same goal, educating our children so that they are able to become healthy, happy people who reach their potential, contribute meaningfully to society and are able to build secure and successful futures.
I firmly believe, after teaching for 30 years, studying the complexities and nuances educating our children authentically, appropriately, and effectively, and finally…. having the honor of representing children and the teaching profession at the local, state and national levels as a former Ohio Teacher of the Year, that our public schools are the “last stand” for our children’s futures.
Are there problems? Yes.
What is the source of the problems overall?
Poverty, lack of nutrition, lack of stability in the home, environmental deprivation, physical and mental health issues, lack of support and funding to address these complex issues so that children are cared for and come to school ready to learn; physically, mentally, socially, emotionally….
Let’s work together to address these deep, complex issues and use successful models of public schools in existence in our cities, states and around the country to construct more schools that integrate what has been successful elsewhere instead of closing down schools and decimating communities. Let’s stop allowing corporations to profit off of our children by fueling this reform movement that pushes our children by a business model paradigm and pushes a high stakes testing curriculum as the daily diet for our children’s intellectual expansion. We know this will not work, it is a waste of time, money and it is marginalizing our most vital resource in our country, our children.
Let’s keep our eyes on the children and the world they come from, as well as the world we hope to help them navigate successfully, happily, healthily.
I will gladly share my school district which has had program choice for over 40 years, Upper Arlington City Schools District, Upper Arlington , Ohio (suburb of Columbus, Ohio ~ close to Ohio State University). Our school choice program in Upper Arlington is unique in that it is not a lottery, applicant based system, but all are admitted who wish to choose the progressive alternative program, ie. Wickliffe Progressive Elementary School, where I taught for 22 years.
Also, there are choice schools in Columbus City Schools that are very successful, Fort Hayes School for the Performing Arts, Indianola Alternative School, K – 8, Columbus Alternative High School.
Another model is a county wide consortium, where children can enroll from different districts in central Franklin County which is located in downtown Columbus. This school is call Mosaic, for high school juniors and seniors.
Overall, our public schools are not failing, in Ohio, the high school graduation rate is 81%, the graduation rate for the for profit charters is around 30%.
Yet, the legislature continues to expand funding for charters to over a billion dollars a year, which siphons vital resources away from our public schools.
Why? Take a look at the highest dollar political contributions to our legislators, for profit charter CEOs, whose businesses run on billions of our hard earned public tax dollars. These millions of dollars of political contributions by these same charter CEOs, who only graduate 20 – 30 % of their students, are also used to keep teachers OUT of the State House to be a voice for our students, the survival of our public schools and ultimately, our Democracy.
I will repeat, funding a divided school system creates a model of “School Houses Divided,” which cannot stand.
It’s time to stand up together, work together and find common ground that does not promote hedge fund marketeers growing corporate empires off of the backs of our children.
Time is running out for our children….
“. . . and to the Republic for which it stands . . . ” goes the Pledge of Allegiance. The distinction between a “Democracy” and a Republic is a legitimate one. I would have preferred you to have claimed that the survival of the Republic depended on the survival of a unitary monopoly public school system. That would be starting a debate from common ground. Put that way, is that a position that you would still wish to defend? Or perhaps you do not see a real distinction between a Republic and a Democracy.
So that’s what’s awaiting Marco Rubio, it seems, as speculation mounts that he could end up as someone’s vice presidential pick in 2012. It’s hard to say if the Rubio Birthers deserve scorn for continuing this insanity, or if the Birther Originalists deserve scorn for their lack of consistency. However, I was just starting to think about making a verdict on the matter, when I suddently remembered that all of these people are pathetic clowns and so all can be scorned in equal amounts.