Wayne Gersen: What Obama Could Learn from Vermont

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1. Joe Nathan says:

   May 3, 2013 at 8:47 am

   Very glad Vermont is moving away from Carnegie (rigid) approach to graduation, toward student demonstration of skills. St. Paul Open School developed a series of proficiencies more than 30 years ago, Mn New Country has done the same.

   Carnegie units way too rigid – students should be expected to demonstrate a variety of skills before graduation, only some of which can be measured by a standardized test.

   Reply
   • Duane Swacker says:

     May 3, 2013 at 10:46 am

     “. . . only some of which can be measured by a standardized test.”

     NO, no standardized test measures anything other than the ability to take a standardized test. The teaching and learning process cannot be measured. To insist otherwise is to promote a false/invalid view of the teaching and learning process.

     Reply
2. Joe Nathan says:

   May 3, 2013 at 11:02 am

   Duane, do you agree we should be moving away from Carnegie units to determine whether a person is ready to graduate from college?

   Re use of standardized tests to help measure part of what a student knows…As an example, the American College Testing service says scoring at or above a certain point on their test predicts whether a student will earn a B or higher as a Freshman in college.

   I don’t think that colleges should only use ACT as a way to determine whether to admit a person. But have you, or anyone else you respect, looked at their assessments and determine that their research is flawed?

   Yes, I have read the 1990 study that you have posted.

   Joe

   Reply
   • Alan says:

     May 3, 2013 at 11:08 am

     “the American College Testing service says scoring at or above a certain point on their test predicts whether a student will earn a B or higher as a Freshman in college.”

     Maybe so, but as I recall the test does not predict success in college beyond the freshman year.

     Reply
     • Joe Nathan says:

       May 3, 2013 at 11:22 am

       Alan, unfortunately many students drop out of college in their freshman year. Some because they have failed too many courses, some because they don’t have the money to continue. Some for a combination of reasons.
       So a test that helps predict which students will succeed in the first year seems to be a valid part (only part) of determining who should be admitted when a college has more applicants that it does spots.
       This is for higher ed – I don’t believe in using such tests in k-12 because k-12, as others have noted, as a mission of educating all kinds of youngsters.