Mike Huckabee said that the murderous spree at Sandy Hook Elementary School happened because we have “systematically removed God” from the schools.
So, let me get this right: If the children had been praying every day in school, the killer would never have entered the building?
I don’t follow the logic.
Public figures should get their facts right before they sound off.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
Haven’t more people died from people saying their god told them to do it? This is why we need separation of church and state. And by the way which god or gods are they talking about? Not all believe in the biblical god. Whose to say there is one or which one is the right one? Is there a battle of the gods as some cultures have and do believe in? Who knows. Huckabee has always been an idiot and seems to continue to keep up with his reputation with statements like this. Why doesn’t he talk about the stress people are under especially since the financial crash and nothing being done about it by people like him?
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Diane,
There is a children’s Defense fund graph covering 1979 to 2006 and following deaths to children and teens due to firearms during this time period that shows such deaths were almost cut in half from 1994 to 2004, when they started to rise again. See http://schoolarchiveproject.blogspot.com/2012/12/protecting-children-from-guns.html How can such data be ignored in this process?
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Words fail me …
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Having just read The Song of Achilles, I had to smile. God(s) indeed. How far we have (not) come.
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Even if we had prayer NOW, Huckabee would probably claim that since the shooter attended schools when prayer WASN’T allowed it led to his wayward behavior…
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His follow-up was worse: okay, it wasn’t God, it was God’s punishment for our immoral behavior, like birth control (which he called “abortion.”) So God’s mad that we’re killing (unborn) babies, so he sent a madman to kill little children. To anyone who complains about people “politicizing the tragedy,” I give you Mike Huckabee.
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HUH? I don’t follow the logic either.
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…and how does this political dinosaur Huckabee’s Medieval logic explain the countless gun massacres of people at prayer in Temples, Churches and Mosques in this country and around the world?
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“Public figures should get their facts right before they sound off.”
Public folks never let facts get in the way of a good sound bite
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“Public figures should get their facts right before they sound off.” Sorry, never gonna happen, facts just get in the way of a good sound bite
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So Huckabee’s merciful, loving God is also a god who gets p@##ed off because he’s not allowed in schools and so lets things like this happen to innocent little children? I’m sorry, but I don’t get it…
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That’s funny. I prayed that Huckabee would go away a long time ago, and he’s still around.
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If you have a strong stomach, just peruse some of Huckabee’s books on Amazon. They all have basically the same theme: it’s all the fault of the homosexuals, feminists, unions, gun control lobby, non-Christians, etc. This is just more of the same. One trick pony.
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http://www.philly.com/philly/entertainment/Anonymous_publish_personal_info
Westboro under attack online.
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To think I once identified myself with conservative thought (William F. Buckley’s brand, not Mike Huckabee’s)…
Diane, just as you experienced an ideological transformation over a period years immersed in research, I too have engaged in a decades long soul-searching and have come out on the other side wondering, who are these people? And how did I ever think that some of them were representative of substantive thinking on significant issues?
Knee-jerk reactions are questionable from either side, the left or the right. Schools should not become military camps because of the mental instability of a few; on the other hand, our current “system” is found egregiously wanting. Some form of meaningful strictures on gun access has to be implemented, the NRA be damned.
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I’ve experienced the same – at the beginning (10 years ago) of my journey I was a hard-leaning right, ultra conservative on ALL issues. I voted republican just because.
My master’s and doctorate degree in education has been what I call my “Woodstock moment”.
Even though I worked in public schools 10 years ago, and had done so for about 5 years, I would have voted to shut public schools down because of their liberal and ungodly approach to education.
I attended one of the most prestigious of right-wing Bible colleges – one that would welcome Mike Huckabee to their pulpit. I have been educated in private Christian schools all my life.
It’s interesting to see how God has saved me by placing me among so many liberals.
With that said, I am still opposed to many of the more liberal ideologies, but I after spending years of research involving education issues for my Master’s and doctorate, I am more and more suspicious of the right-wing agenda.
And, perhaps most importantly, I see the value of public schools (without God) for our public, alongside the right of the public to be educated without being hassled about God.
If people want their children to be taught about God at school (which I do), then they can pay for their child to attend a private, Christian school (which I do). And they can happily support public schools (as I do).
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What is equally without “logic” and quite absurd is that over 52,000 people gave his comments a thumbs up!
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” If the children had been praying every day in school, the killer would never have entered the building?”
It makes me wonder why 4 little girls died in a church bombing in Birmingham in 1963. Did someone “take God out of the church” while no one was looking?
I think it must be…else why would it have happened.
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Huckabee brings to the light yet another problem with our nation.
The pundits whose faux credibility have been exploiting our airways.
It’s time to do what our founding fathers would have done.
I’ll bring the tar, who has the feathers?
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I’ve got a few feathers, enough for at least one time. I’m sure I could find some feather pillows if needed.
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Perhaps more absurd, or bizarre, or is there even a word for it?
The strange blessing of Westboro Baptist Church
“There are few situations so terrible that they can’t be made worse by a visit from the Westboro Baptist Church.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2012/12/17/the-strange-blessing-of-westboro-baptist-church/
Anonymous wages war on Westboro Baptist Church after hate-mongering group threatens to picket Sandy Hook Elementary School
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/anonymous-wages-war-westboro-baptist-church-article-1.1222014
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Huckabee has publicly announced that he is mentally ill when he made that statement.
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Diane,
This student, Dylan, died in the arms of his aide. I just can’t stop crying:
http://www.newstimes.com/news/article/Dylan-Hockley-died-in-Anne-Marie-Murphy-s-arms-4122828.php
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Heartbreaking beyond human belief. What kind of country do we live in? It feels like a war zone.
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Thank you for making me shed yet more tears. That boy resembles my son.
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Huckabee is a horse’s ass.
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You’re being way to kind, maybe as a christian as huckabee thinks he is.
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too, not to!
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Wow. Just wow. As a Christian and a public school teacher, I find Huckabee’s comments insulting and ignorant. There have been shootings in temples and churches, too. There is no excuse for violence.
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I see a lot of people talking about putting God back in schools as if He could ever be forced out. God is not bound by laws. God is not confined by ANY manmade rule or regulation. I spent over 15 years teaching in a public school, and I saw God in school every day. I can assure you that prayers are still said in schools because I said one most days at work. As a teacher, I taught Baptists, Methodists, Hindus, Muslims, Atheists, Agnostics, Wiccans, Buddhists, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, etc. As strongly as I feel about my faith, I feel just as strongly that everyone has the right to attend a public school without having someone else’s faith forced upon them. That’s what they do in Iran. That’s not what we do in the United States.
When schools were supposedly centers of moral virtue, violence existed. In fact, we segregated schools, and when folks challenged segregation they were often lynched. I remember 4 girls bombed in Birmingham. I remember Emmitt Till too. I remember “Christian” schools in Little Rock, Arkansas where African-American students who had the “audacity” to integrate were spit upon, threatened, insulted, and harassed. I guess people have this idyllic vision of the past. My history books tell me a different story.
There have been school shootings since the 1700’s. The only difference between shootings of the past and present is that today the shooters have access to far more powerful weapons. And while gun laws cannot completely solve the problem, it seems preposterous to not at least look at some ways we can keep guns out of the hands of crazy people and make it MUCH harder for ANYONE to acquire a weapon that serves no purpose other than killing multiple people.
What do all of these acts of violence have in common? Mental illness. This is the issue that must be addressed if we truly want to reduce violence. Public schools ought to be at the forefront on this, but we are so focused on testing that we have neglected the mental health of students. We do not equip students with any tools to manage stress, deal with anger, or develop resilience. They live in an increasingly complex world with no guidance on how to cope with it. Mental illness impacts all students from all religious backgrounds and combatting it is the one thing we haven’t tried.
Guidance counselors are burdened with scheduling, testing, transcripts, transfers, etc. What time do they truly have to meet the mental health issues of their student bodies? We are spending more money on resources officers, security cameras, etc. Shouldn’t we also invest money on personnel and programs that foster improved mental health?
Here are some alarming statistics…
21% of children between 9-17 have a diagnosable mental or addictive disorder.
70% of adolescents with mental health problems do not receive care.
Millions of students are on antidepressants. One estimate had it at 10,000,000.
Mental illness is still largely misunderstood, access to treatment is not equitable, and schools are not given the resources, training or support to provide proper mental health care to their students.
Schools and teachers are measured on the results of standardized tests, and no test measures the emotional or mental well-being of a student. When I heard of the heroism of some of the teachers at Sandy Hook, I thought to myself how ironic it was that their heroism would have no bearing on any evaluation instrument by which they could possibly be judged. That reveals just one of the many flaws within most teacher evaluation systems. A teacher is so much more than the results of a narrow test given on one day. A school is so much more as well, or at least SHOULD be so much more, but they are being forced to be less because of our system of evaluations. How can you determine the quality of a school or teacher when your primary measurement consists of students bubbling in correct answers on a multiple choice test? Sorry I am straying from my original point, but this is what I have been reflecting on the past couple of days.
Please understand…I pray that every student could be close to God. The thing is that the God I believe in is likely quite different than the one you believe in. For example, the God I believe in would never create a Hell because that would mean He believes that eternally torturing a person would be acceptable punishment for sins committed within a human lifetime. So you probably don’t want me promoting my God in the classroom, and I don’t want my children to be inculcated with your religious views either. So when you say we should “put God back in school,” whose God? Yours, mine, Raj’s, Ahmed’s or the Westboro “Christians?”
I DO want my children to spend a SIGNIFICANT amount of time in school talking about universal values such as honesty, compassion, empathy, integrity, and kindness. We can build character in students without trampling on their personal religious views. We can instill in all children the best aspects of humanity without forcing all to adopt one particular faith system, but we have to INSIST on it because character isn’t measured on standardized tests and right now the results of those tests seem to be all that matters.
I also want my children to spend a lot of time learning stress management techniques. I want my children to have plenty of recess, many opportunities to socialize, room for fun and laughter, and freedom from fear. I want that for all children.
I continue to be saddened by Friday’s events. I can’t even watch the news because it is too painful to hear any more details. I write this more as catharsis than a desire to debate. My hope is that regardless of your views on gun control or “God in schools” you will agree that addressing the mental health issues of our children and spending time developing their character ought to become greater priorities in this country. We should demand these things and build that demand into any system of accountability we use with our public schools.
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Huck Mike fuckabee!
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And the Amish children who were murdered a few years ago in their schoolhouse were murdered for what reason?!?! Did they pray to the wrong God?!?!?!
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Please don’t make it a contest — there is no top to race to when it comes to right-wing absurdity …
Tea Party Nation Attacks Teachers over CT School Shooting
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Yikes! Too much crazy for so early in the morning. I think my favorite was No. 7, get rid of *sex* in movies. Violence, of course, is perfectly fine and doesn’t cause violence, but that nasty stuff that causes people to walk around “enflamed in their glands”? *That’s* what causes violence. And did you happen to see the headlines on the “Related Items” to the right in that post? I’m too afraid to click on them – I think my head will explode.
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The stuff about Sex and Violence in the Media and Video Games is one of their favorite diversionary maneuvers — a bit of liberal-baiting designed to shift attention from the 2nd to the 1st Amendment. Amazing how often it works …
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I read the original article at the Tea Party Nation site:
http://www.teapartynation.com/profiles/blog/show?id=3355873%3ABlogPost%3A2364503&xgs=1&xg_source=msg_share_post
It’s pretty scary. There’s a number of commenters on that article that need help just as much or more than Adam Lanza did.
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I see a lot of people talking about putting God back in schools as if He could ever be forced out. God is not bound by laws. God is not confined by ANY manmade rule or regulation. I spent over 15 years teaching in a public school, and I saw God in school every day. I can assure you that prayers are still said in schools because I said one most days at work. As a teacher, I taught Baptists, Methodists, Hindus, Muslims, Atheists, Agnostics, Wiccans, Buddhists, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, etc. As strongly as I feel about my faith, I feel just as strongly that everyone has the right to attend a public school without having someone else’s faith forced upon them. That’s what they do in Iran. That’s not what we do in the United States.
When schools were supposedly centers of moral virtue, violence existed. In fact, we segregated schools, and when folks challenged segregation they were often lynched. I remember 4 girls bombed in Birmingham. I remember Emmitt Till too. I remember “Christian” schools in Little Rock, Arkansas where African-American students who had the “audacity” to integrate were spit upon, threatened, insulted, and harassed. I guess people have this idyllic vision of the past. My history books tell me a different story.
There have been school shootings since the 1700’s. The only difference between shootings of the past and present is that today the shooters have access to far more powerful weapons. And while gun laws cannot completely solve the problem, it seems preposterous to not at least look at some ways we can keep guns out of the hands of crazy people and make it MUCH harder for ANYONE to acquire a weapon that serves no purpose other than killing multiple people.
What do all of these acts of violence have in common? Mental illness. This is the issue that must be addressed if we truly want to reduce violence. Public schools ought to be at the forefront on this, but we are so focused on testing that we have neglected the mental health of students. We do not equip students with any tools to manage stress, deal with anger, or develop resilience. They live in an increasingly complex world with no guidance on how to cope with it. Mental illness impacts all students from all religious backgrounds and combatting it is the one thing we haven’t tried.
Guidance counselors are burdened with scheduling, testing, transcripts, transfers, etc. What time do they truly have to meet the mental health issues of their student bodies? We are spending more money on resources officers, security cameras, etc. Shouldn’t we also invest money on personnel and programs that foster improved mental health?
Here are some alarming statistics…
21% of children between 9-17 have a diagnosable mental or addictive disorder.
70% of adolescents with mental health problems do not receive care.
Millions of students are on antidepressants. One estimate had it at 10,000,000.
Mental illness is still largely misunderstood, access to treatment is not equitable, and schools are not given the resources, training or support to provide proper mental health care to their students.
Schools and teachers are measured on the results of standardized tests, and no test measures the emotional or mental well-being of a student. When I heard of the heroism of some of the teachers at Sandy Hook, I thought to myself how ironic it was that their heroism would have no bearing on any evaluation instrument by which they could possibly be judged. That reveals just one of the many flaws within most teacher evaluation systems. A teacher is so much more than the results of a narrow test given on one day. A school is so much more as well, or at least SHOULD be so much more, but they are being forced to be less because of our system of evaluations. How can you determine the quality of a school or teacher when your primary measurement consists of students bubbling in correct answers on a multiple choice test? Sorry I am straying from my original point, but this is what I have been reflecting on the past couple of days.
Please understand…I pray that every student could be close to God. The thing is that the God I believe in is likely quite different than the one you believe in. For example, the God I believe in would never create a Hell because that would mean He believes that eternally torturing a person would be acceptable punishment for sins committed within a human lifetime. So you probably don’t want me promoting my God in the classroom, and I don’t want my children to be inculcated with your religious views either. So when you say we should “put God back in school,” whose God? Yours, mine, Raj’s, Ahmed’s or the Westboro “Christians?”
I DO want my children to spend a SIGNIFICANT amount of time in school talking about universal values such as honesty, compassion, empathy, integrity, and kindness. We can build character in students without trampling on their personal religious views. We can instill in all children the best aspects of humanity without forcing all to adopt one particular faith system, but we have to INSIST on it because character isn’t measured on standardized tests and right now the results of those tests seem to be all that matters.
I also want my children to spend a lot of time learning stress management techniques. I want my children to have plenty of recess, many opportunities to socialize, room for fun and laughter, and freedom from fear. I want that for all children.
I continue to be saddened by Friday’s events. I can’t even watch the news because it is too painful to hear any more details. I write this more as catharsis than a desire to debate. My hope is that regardless of your views on gun control or “God in schools” you will agree that addressing the mental health issues of our children and spending time developing their character ought to become greater priorities in this country. We should demand these things and build that demand into any system of accountability we use with our public schools.
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He forgets an Amish school girls were also attacked along with people attending services in another state. I am just so grateful that these zealots never made it to the White House. I found the rape statements made by 2 Republicans a few months ago whacked, but this goes to a whole other level. If this is what his Church believes, then I fear for all of us because these are the crazy individuals who carry guns.
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It may be what his church believes. It is not what Christians believe. The Bible said there would be false teachers and false prophets.
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I remember the 4 middle school girls but not Emmit Till. I lived in Birmingham when 16th Street Baptist was bombed.
I saw evidence of God every day in schools. God never really got kicked out in the South, just organized prayer was.
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There is a very strong need for more mental health services in America. There is still a serious stigma attached to it and often insurance only covers it in a limited fashion. Plus if the shooter also had Aspergers, he really needed ongoing support. But you know that mental health and special education are the first programs to be slashed. Gotta be “normal” Gotta fit in. Gotta pass those tests. This boy was clearly different, but did anyone ever tell him that was ok and just to be the best person he could be and then help him be that person?
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I responded to Mike Huckabee here: http://transformingtheconversation.blogspot.com/
New blog I just started, response to Huckabee is my first post there. Some of our nation’s most prominent “Christian” spokespersons need a good scolding, imo.
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Those self styled spokespersons only speak for a loud mouthed highly monied small group of conservatives who practice a perverse political version of Christianity. They are the Pharisees of the Bible, the ones who told the government to kill Jesus who referred to them as snakes and vipers. I have my doubts that many of them have accepted Jesus Christ as their personal savior.
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James Dobson, founder of Focus on the Family blamed it on putting God out of school and same sex marriage. But then he also blamed Hurricanes Sandy and Katrina on homosexuals. But when Katrina was coming in our school’s math coordinator said that New Orleans was a praying city and lead the teachers in voluntary prayer at the workshop we were having the Saturday before Katrina.
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