I received a comment this morning from a reader who explained why she was voting for Romney. Here is her comment and my response.
I love reading your blog Ms. Ravitch, but I totally disagree with this post. This teacher will vote for Romney because I do not believe in the re-distribution of wealth. I do believe that if you can’t produce an ID at the voting booth, you should not be allowed to vote. I believe that taxing the rich heavily will mean less hiring. I actually believe in one flat tax for all. As a woman, I believe that if you can’t afford birth control, then don’t have sex. Additionally, if birth control for women is to be paid for by the government, then condoms should be paid for too for men. As a Catholic, I am offended that Obama would try to dictate the availability of birth control to Catholic employers for their employees–don’t take the job with the Catholic organization if you don’t like their terms. I believe it is unconstitutional for the government to require people to buy health insurance. I believe both political parties will make education worse in America with their devotion to standardized testing and love affair with charter schools, so I can’t take sides on education issues.
I grew up poor. Neither one of my parents graduated from high school because their fathers died when they were young and both had to go out to work. They struggled at every financial turn. We got one present each for Christmas and a new outfit for school for our birthdays. Yet, through hard work and perseverance, they put four kids through college–one teacher, one engineer, and two accountants. They never accepted food stamps or welfare even though they qualified for it. They were too proud and embarrassed to take it, so they dug in and took any jobs they could find. My father worked several low paying jobs seven days per week. My mother took any work she could find too. They knew education was the ticket out of poverty, so they were militant about our doing well in school. So I don’t want to hear about redistributing the wealth after you have worked hard for it. If you want to be charitable, it is your choice to make donations to the less fortunate, but I believe the government should not dictate it. Hence, this 25 year veteran teacher will be voting for Romney.
And here is my response:
I don’t question anyone’s decision to vote for the candidate of their choice.
What I do question, however, is the idea that taxing the rich means redistributing the wealth and killing jobs.
Our nation has nearly 25% of its families living in poverty. Many don’t have enough money to eat or pay rent or see a doctor.
At the other end of the spectrum are people who are obscenely rich. They have enough money to have several vacation homes with many servants. They own more luxury cars than there are adults in the family. They go to fabulous restaurants in big cities where a single meal costs nearly $1,000. They don’t think twice about buying a bottle of wine that costs $500.
Now maybe they are providing jobs for the people who build their private jets and yachts; for the servants in their homes; and for the waiters and chefs in their fancy restaurants.
But these are people who could pay higher taxes and it would have no impact whatever on their lifestyle. It would not stop them from creating jobs, if that is what they do. Some of those who work on Wall Street don’t employ anyone except the people who serve them. They don’t create jobs. They make money by speculation, by betting on which stock will go up and which will go down. It is a form of poker that creates no jobs.
I say, raise their taxes. During the Eisenhower years, when this country had a Republican president, taxes on the rich were far higher than they are today. They can afford to pay more. They should help to reduce the suffering of others, not by creating foundations but by shouldering their responsibility to pay a fair share of their income to pay the costs of essential public services, like education and healthcare.

I don’t believe in the redistribution of wealth. Everyone should make what they can. But, everyone’s income should be taxed the same regardless where it comes from. If I dip into my IRA it is taxed at the rate of my income. If I take dividends from stock as income they should be taxed the same. get rid of the loopholes for income.
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So, what do you propose to do about the redistribution of wealth that has occurred over the past dozen years, with about $2 trillion taken from the middle class and poor, and given to the rich? If you’re against redistribution of wealth, shouldn’t you be working to correct that?
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I have a difficult time believing that response was from a real teacher. The lack of empathy isn’t very teacher-like. Sounds more like boiler plate GOP talking points that could have been written by Grover Norquist.
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Well said.
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I just want to note here that going to college 25 years ago is far different from today. I am 57 and I had $3600 in school loans at a very low interest rate. My son has around $50,000 in school loans. There is no comparison between his debt and mine! This woman’s parents could not afford to send their children to college today because the cost of college is overwhelming. Much of the problems with the tax code as it is currently written lets the rich escape from paying payroll taxes that everyone else pays. SS is capped. That could be taken off. I, as a school teacher, pay at a much higher rate than Mitt Romney, as a millionaire. There is something seriously wrong with that. This woman seems to be caught up in religion. As far as I am concerned, there is a separation of church and state. People have the right to health care. It shouldn’t be for the rich and privileged in our society, nor should education!
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Dear Diane and the teacher voting for Romney:
I’d like to go a little bit further than Diane’s response and add that all societies redistribute wealth in some form and to some degree — and that it’s terrible policy to let the term “wealth redistribution” become a dirty word.
In fact, almost all public and Catholic school teachers — including the one writing — believe in wealth redistribution. The entire institution of public school is FOUNDED on providing a common platform for all children through unequal taxation of adults. In addition one CANNOT be a Roman Catholic in good faith if one does not accept the Church’s teaching that a portion of one’s wealth must go to aid the less well off.
Whether wealth should be redistributed by religious authorities like the Roman Catholic Church, by authorities in a participatory Republic, or purely on an individual basis is a legitimate political question and well-worth taking seriously.
But there has never been a functioning society where the wealthy have not acknowledged their obligation to surrender some of their assets for the good of others, for society in general and, in the long run, for the good of their own descendants.
Any argument that begins with a rejection of wealth distribution as a principle should be rejected, prima facie.
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You/’re absolutely right, Diane. The failure of Romney’s and conservative economic and social ideas has been demonstrated by decades of empirical evidence, as you point out so well. What Romney and Ryan push now is just a fantasy to gather even more money and power for the tiniest fraction of Americans, those who envision themselves at the top of a power structure in which they own everything and the rest of use live like sharecroppers. This is the world of Ayn Rand.
As a Catholic myself, I write most emphatically that this is not consistent in any way with Catholic teaching. Your writers comments about birth control misrepresent the facts and are in accordance with only a small fraction of Catholics.
It’s all fine and good that the writer’s parents were so successful in their struggles. My own great-grandparents accomplished even more, coming to America penniless and putting seven children through college (in the 1920s and ’30s no less), two through Harvard, and establishing a profitable business. But I while I use my family’s history as a source of personal strength, I don’t use it as a bludgeon to beat those who have been less fortunate. The fact is that success entails as lot of luck, and you can’t use your good luck to stand in moral judgement over those who suffer.
This is the sin of pride; it also suggest that the writer actually envies those who took the help her parents refused.
And if this teacher is in tune with Romney, then how can she teach in a public school as a member of the mooching 47%? Why hasn’t she started her own hedge fund and gotten rich, like those who claim to do the “real work” in this country?
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I’m sorry, but the comments about not redistributing wealth are ignorant of economics. Every tax redistributes wealth.
In economics, they talk about positive and negative “externalities,” affects that private efforts have on the broader public, external to them. Pollution is an example of a negative externality. I produce something to sell to you, but my factory pollution affects a lot of neighbors negatively. An example of a positive externality is education. I educate my child, but the educated child can benefit the rest of society more, not only himself or herself.
Government regulates, taxes, and creates institutions to promote the positive and reduce the negative externalities—failures of the market place alone to solve social problems.
We REDISTRIBUTE money from the general public to teachers for just this reason. The question of whether we should distribute is a question of whether we should have government. The alternative to government is warlordism, or rule by mafias. Look at Somalia. The proper question is when and how we should redistribute, not whether.
Those who buy into the politics of resentment are the middle class being suckered into voting against their interests by the rich.
Redistribution to reduce inequality of wealth and income is another question. It is actually a valid goal to a limited extent, because the effects of extreme inequality are to reduce demand for goods, hurt the economy and to corrupt society in the way we see now. For a brilliant exposition of the damage done by extreme inequality see the book The Price of Inequality by Nobel Prize winner Joseph Steiglitz.
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Well put. I’d go even a bit father to argue that most the neo-classical economics actually work to justify robber baron behavior. “Externalities” are just a fancy way of admitting that the market cannot calculate the full cost of its actions–and therefore can’t be truly rational–and then pushing the true costs onto those who are least able to pay or fight back.
Read Steve Keen’s book “Economics Debunked” or Yves Smith’s “Econned” to see just how much of a sham our current economic thinking is; that’s why it failed repeatedly in the late 19th century, which way repeated depressions and speculation bubbles that led to regulation, and again in 1929, which required even more regulation. Many good economists, like Simon Johnson at MIT’
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I think your comment about justifying robber baron behavior is right on target. I am not an economist, but I’m married to one, and started looking into this because of the political debate. I was fascinated to find that the term ‘free market economics’ was actually invented to defend big business predation against small business and individuals, as I explain here: http://therepublicon.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-myth-of-free-market.html
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Free market (or “laissez-faire”) economics actually has a rather jaded, even dark, intellectual history. An excellent book on this Karl Polya’s “The Great Transformation”, which makes the point that either we accept that we have to control the “market” or resign ourselves to be crushed by it.
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Thank you. I am not an economist, and I often get caught saying something that offends economists. A tax is what we pay to have a decent society. Without taxes, it would be the law of the jungle, and the rich would eat the poor, or the poor would gather to slaughter the rich. Taxes seem like the necessary price of maintaining a decent society. But I am not an economist, that’s my view from several decades of observation of life in these United States.
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Externalities are not the only reason for government intervention in market outcomes. Goods that are not excludable can not be produced by private firms. Goods that are not rival should go to anyone who wants those goods without limitation. We cannot produce non-excludable goods using a decentralized market system. We should not produce non-rival goods using a decentralized market system.
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Huh? “Goods that are not excludable?” “Goods that are not rival?” I do not speak economicese. Layman’s terms, please.
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The contemporary problem with recorded music illustrates this very well. In the old days, recorded music was excludable because you needed to buy a record to get it. Today’s technology separates the information from what it is recorded on, and it is impossible to prevent people from obtaining the information. Because you can not prevent someone from consuming the good, that is it is not excludable, you can not sell it.
A good is rival if my consumption of it prevents your consuming it. Pizza, for example. When a good is rival, society has to make a decision about who gets to consume the good. Pizza slices are allocated by the market, organs for transplant are allocated very differently. Recorded music used to be rival because my listening to the LP in my home meant you could not listen to the LP in your home. Now, with the information separated from a physical container, we can both listen to the music in our separate houses at the same time. Because everyone can listen to the music without interfering with each other, there is no reason for society to make any decision about who should consume the good.
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What many fail to realize is that we are a socialist country as much as we are a capitalist country. Thus it has been for quite some time. The answer to our economic problems lies not in the abolition of either of these economic ideologies. Neither is it to be found in the mindless destruction of one to preserve the other. As one with experience inlife might fairly predict, the solutionlies in striking the appropriate balance between the two.
Carpe Diem!
John Keating
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There is nothing socialist about our country. Providing free public education is not socialist, nor is the postoffice. Our country provides the essential services necessary for the survival of society. If we did not, we would create a massive, impoverished angry underclass that would destroy us.
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Re: the comment, “there is nothing socialist about our country.” Sorry to go all academic on y’all, but if we are talking about economic systems (and I think the issue in this discussion is the vagueness of definition) then:
For an economic system to be Capitalist, goods and services are produced by private individuals and/or groups of people for the purpose of generating some level of profit.
When goods and services are produced by government institutions, as in the case of some post-office functions (the US Post Office is actually a public/private hybrid) and with goal of providing public service over generating profit — then the economic system that produces them is NOT capitalism. Though socialism is a vague term that encompasses many, many different motivations for producing goods and services, it can accurately be used to describe the system that undergirds the goods and services produced by American institutions such as public schools and the US Armed Services.
I understand that the misuse of, and fear-mongering over, the terms of economics makes it politically lethal in America to use words like socialism in public discourse. But distortion of the truth, no matter how politically effective, doesn’t change the truth. America, like all nations, functions IN PART through a socialist economy.
Incidentally, the fundamental motivation of a Communist economic system is to, in Karl Marx’s words, inspire people to work to produce goods and services that flow “from each according to his abilities to each according to his needs.” Again ignoring the Straw Boogey Men thrown up by fear-mongerers over the years, that system is pretty much EXACTLY describes he refrigerator in almost every family household in the United States. The people who have the ability to provide the service of buying and storing food in a refrigerator do so — without any demand for profit — while the people who need the stored food take it without, usually, having to pay any sort of monetized fee.
So, most American (Gasp!) have a Communist economic system right in their own homes! The motivation that drives the continual success of this system is called love. Parents and adults provide refrigerated food for their children and other dependents out of love. It isn’t always money that makes the world go round.
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Please forgive my intellectual inadequacies. However, is it not a profound contradiction to state that “There is nothing socialist about our country”, and then list services provded by government which are “essential services necessary for the survival of society”?
Carpe Diem!
John Keating
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American has never been a “socialist” country–Just look up the meaning of the word. We have been very much capitalist with varying degrees of social welfare programs, usually kept at a level necessary to prevent revolt or the establishment of a true social democracy.
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My apologies for being slow-minded occasionally. Please correct me if I am wrong. Does not the author of this post make the case that without social welfare programs our country would experience a revolt or the estabishment of a true social democracy? This sounds very Revolutionary and American to me.
Carpe Diem!
John Keating
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The commenter mentioned that she believes in a flat tax and that she grew up poor but her parents never took welfare and always worked at what ever job they could get – I’m wondering if they paid the same federal income tax rate as the millionaires of the time…
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I do not support Obama or like being required to buy health insurance, because I can’t afford it and I’ll have to pay for it before buying food, as I already have to do with my mandated car insurance each month. However, there are so many inaccuracies in the OP’s claims, it’s hard to know where to start.
Obama didn’t invent ObamaCare. Romney did. It was under Romney that the citizens of Massachusetts were mandated to buy health insurance, so it was nicknamed “RomneyCare”.
Condoms are freely distributed by many public and private programs across America.
Obama has stated that there will be some exemptions for religious organizations.
The self-made man is a myth (and silver spoon Romney is no exception): http://www.alternet.org/story/155149/the_self-made_myth%3A_debunking_conservatives'_favorite_–_and_most_dangerous_–_fiction
Low-Wage Workers Employed Mostly By Large, Highly Profitable Corporations: Report:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/19/low-wage-workers-_n_1687271.html
The Reganomics demonstrated that when the wealthy pay less taxes, supposedly so they can create jobs, only crumbs trickle down to the masses: http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19900903&slug=1091159
It’s unconscionable that a company like Walmart, which made its fortunes off the backs of non-union low-paid workers, is signing up their employees for Food Stamps. No full time workers should have to obtain additional jobs or sign up for government assistance just to put food on the table. Requiring corporations to pay their workers a livable wage would do more to redistribute the wealth and eradicate poverty in this country than any other measure. Gainful employment for a living wage is not charity. It’s a moral imperative.
I will never understand why greed is acceptable and “social justice” is intolerable to so many people who claim to be religious. This is not consistent with the principles of most major religions, including Catholicism:
http://www.ecatholic2000.com/sj/socjust.shtml
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I think health insurance is a good example of market failure. Without the ability to refuse coverage on pre-existing conditions, private provision of health insurance will not work. We, as a society, have decided that people with pre-existing conditions should not be excluded from insurance. The only way to do this is to require everyone to have health insurance either through a single payer plan or mandated private insurance purchases.
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I may be mistaken, but I think under Obamacare (interesting….we don’t call Medicare Johnsoncare?), if you can’t afford insurance then you are entitled to some sort of assistance or aid?
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If they require that people jump through the same hoops as they must in order to qualify for government assistance today, I don’t think it will be easy to get aid.
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A word about so-called redistribution of wealth: current tax codes allow the higher rates of taxation on the working class and provide enormous benefits to the wealthy. This is a form of redistribution and people need to realize it is taking place.
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Taxes are the redistribution of wealth to create a functioning civil and civilized society. Taxes fund public schools, public roads, the police, fire departments (even volunteer fire departments need public money for all the equipment), the judicial system, the penal system, the military, etc., it’s a very long list. The top marginal tax rate during the Eisenhower administration was 91%, the unionization rate was at about 34%, the economy was booming and the wealth was shared by all economic classes though segregation and discrimination against blacks and other minorities were horrible. Now the top marginal tax rate is at 35% (Romney – 14%) and the unionization rate is down to 11.8%, the economy is not booming, poverty is increasing, wages are stagnant or falling and wealth is being concentrated in the hands of a few privileged plutocrats (robber barons) or economic royalists. The flat tax is garbage, it’s a phony baloney idea promoted by guys like billionaire Steve Forbes; it’s great for the wealthy but does nothing for the poor or middle class.
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I wonder if this woman’s parents ever lived long enough to receive Social Security or Medicare. Was her father a veteran who received VA benefits? The military is certainly a socialist organization. Even Ms Selfishness herself, Ayn Rand, signed up for Medicare and Social Security in her declining years.
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“Redistribution of Wealth” is just a marketing term to make paying taxes sound nefarious. As a society, we collect money from citizens and corporations, then decide how we want to spend it for the benefit of the society. Sometimes that means helping those at the bottom of the income scale. Often times, it means helping those in the middle and the top (see bank bailouts). People who complain about “Redistribution of Wealth” never seem to mind when people in the middle and the top are receiving benefits. And if you look at our history for the past three decades, the end result of our taxing and spending philosophy has resulted in wealth being “redistributed” upwards (https://rwer.wordpress.com/2011/02/25/25-graphics-showing-upward-redistribution-of-income-and-wealth-in-usa-since-1979/), not downwards. So complaints of “Redistribution of Wealth” typically indicate a certain obliviousness.
And keep in mind, there is a reason we group our money together as a society. There is more “buying power” as a group. We get a better return on our investment. And that’s what taxes are, an investment. We invest in schools, public safety, infrastructure, defense, and yes, welfare. As was recently noted, Mitt Romey’s dad spent time on welfare. We, as a society, made an investment that if we helped support him and get him through hard times, there would be a greater chance that he would have a positive impact on society. Does every investment result in such a great return? No. But at that magnitude, you play the percentages.
When it comes to Voter ID laws, even when George W. Bush insisted that the US Attorneys focus on the issue of voter fraud (remember that scandal: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/usa-timeline.php), they just couldn’t find anything. It is just not a real issue. When that is considered, it is hard to see Voter ID laws as anything other than voter suppression. When people advocate for Voter ID laws, they are arguing that instead of government protecting the right of citizens to vote, that it should be up to the citizens to prove they can vote. That is a shift backwards to when voter suppression was openly recognized as a goal.
Believing that taxing the rich heavily will result result in less jobs just ignores the facts and indicates a misunderstanding of how the economy works. When the rich are taxed less, they just become richer (http://anticap.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/inequality-whoswinning_3.png). What creates jobs is demand for products (http://www.prwatch.org/node/9828).
As for “if you can’t afford birth control, then don’t have sex”, well… good luck with that. And for “I believe it is unconstitutional for the government to require people to buy health insurance.” It’s not. The republican-majority supreme court has already ruled on the issue. And again, there seems to be a misunderstanding of what the law requires. It says that insurance companies have to cover contraception as preventative health care. There is no legal requirement that Catholic employers (or any other) provide insurance. So just as employees are free to not “take the job with the Catholic organization if you don’t like their terms”, Catholic organizations are free to not offer insurance if they don’t like the terms.
And finally, to the family history story, the writer seems to express a personal appreciation for public education while at the same time ignoring how public education is a function of “redistribution of wealth” and how she/he personally has benefited from it. Classic case of cognitive dissonance.
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Being highly educated with decades of experience but the working poor, this really pushed my buttons.
80% of Americans hold only 7% of the wealth in this country. “Since financial wealth is what counts as far as the control of income-producing assets, we can say that just 10% of the people own the United States of America.” See graphs and charts in Who Rules America: Wealth, Income and Power: http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html
26 profitable American corporations have not paid taxes in 4 years: http://eclectablog.com/2012/09/speaking-of-not-paying-taxes-entitlement-how-about-the-26-corporations-that-havent-paid-tax-in-4-years.html
How equitable is it for Romney to have paid an effective tax rate of 14% on his $13.7 million income last year, when working Americans earning $8,500 – $34,500 paid 15%? How equitable is it for Obama to have paid less in taxes than his secretary? The system is set up to give high earners a free pass.
A portion of the top 1% have so much money that they’ve been able to buy the legislation that will keep them at the top of this inequitable distribution of wealth. That includes buying an education that will keep the masses ignorant, compliant, low wage workers at the bottom.
Don’t believe for a minute that including a ban on teaching critical thinking and higher order thinking skills in the TX Republican platform was an accident. http://www.forbes.com/sites/johntharvey/2012/07/01/texas-gop-platform/ As Thomas Jefferson wrote, “kings, priests and nobles… will rise up among us if we leave the people in ignorance.”
Those aristocrats have already risen in America and they are called CEOs: Gates, Romney, Broad, Walton, Koch, Pritzker, etc. and they are from both sides of the aisle. They want a different kind of education for other people’s kids, so they can stay wealthy and powerful while the rest of the country panders for crumbs.
IMHO, anyone who thinks our capitalist brand of artistocracy is more deserving of maintaining lordships than all other citizens has either been brainwashed or has lost touch with reality. In no other developed country are the wealthy taxed as low as the super-rich in America: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/charts-how-americas-billionaires-get-off-tax-rich-congress
I don’t think you can separate the economic and education agendas of the super-rich, because they are purposely entangled and, at this point, entrenched. I’ll probably be voting Green, for Jill Stein, because I can only vote my conscience. I know only too well that education is not necessarily the path out of poverty, because no one is requiring that coporations pay non-union workers a living wage and there just aren’t enough decent paying jobs for all of those who need them, regardless of our level of education.
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You might add that during the Nixon, Reagan and Bush I years the rich were taxed at a higher rate…
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You’re kidding, right? Or maybe you had to be there. No one gave greater tax cuts to the rich than Reagan: http://flaeconomics.blogspot.com/2010/06/top-tax-rate-by-president.html
“..this didn’t just happen to the middle class. This was done to the middle class.” Hedrick Smith, Who Stole the American Dream: http://www.corporatecrimereporter.com/news/200/hedrick-smith-meet-lewis-powell/
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BTW, I tried to locate a more detailed picture of tax rates by president but could only find what I post above and this: http://thomsword.blogspot.com/2010/11/stop-bitching-about-high-taxes.html
Otherwise, you can see the top marginal tax rates by year listed here: http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=213 and then cross reference them yourself by checking this list of presidents and the years they were in office here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States
Another less scientific , you
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……wondering what this has to do with public schools focusing on academic excellence.??
When you shift focus…..
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If you do not acknowledge the importance of learning contexts, including the impact of growing up poverty, then I’m afraid you will always be wondering.
If you see social justice as a shift in focus, when that is critical for promoting equity in a democratic society and fostering excellence in education, particularly where there are large numbers of impoverished people, such as 87% of children attending Chicago Public Schools, then I regret you will never understand.
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