Fred Klonsky is a retired teacher in Illinois. Retired teachers in that state, like many others, don’t collect Social Security. Politicians of both parties have tried to cut teachers’ retirement benefits. Should he care that Trump wants to defund Social Security?
He concludes that teachers in Illinois are in the same fight with those who face Trump’s stealth effort to defund Social Security.
Trump’s claim is that his executive order would put more money now into workers paychecks.
Put aside for a moment that due to Trump’s leadership there are nearly 40 million newly unemployed workers who no longer receive a paycheck.
And put aside for a moment that the payments to Social Security will have to be made up at a later date.
The payroll tax essentially funds Social Security and Medicare.
Trump’s order will stop nearly $350 billion in payments to Social Security.
If Trump is reelected and a Republican Congress eliminates the payroll tax permanently, as is the plan, it is estimated that the system will be broke by the end of Trump’s second term.
No more Social Security or Medicare.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
Trump is desperately casting about for things he can do just before the election to get him back into office, but being the con man and pampered rich boy he is, he settles on stuff like this. Throw the people some crumbs (like the paper rolls he threw in Puerto Rico). His payroll tax plan is a con because it’s not a cut but a deferment. And, of course, it will hurt the Social Security Trust Fund. And it shows what a pampered rich boy he is because he doesn’t realize that most Americans wouldn’t have the funds to pay the taxes in one lump sum when they come due. That’s odd thought because as a failed businessman who ran various companies into bankruptcy and as a long-term tax evader, he should be familiar with the predicament of being unable to pay taxes due.
Don’t forget he pledged that if elected, he will permanently kill the payroll tax (that funds Social Security). He never mentions the last part.
What trust fund?? All monies go into the general fund from where these trillions are now coming. Trump will not empty out any SS-medicare funds with this legislation. These questions have been discussed and answered by the treasury secretary. SS and medicare have been in trouble for many years—don’t start blaming Trump for that, We might be in big trouble in 15 years or less. Bush Jr tried to get something done using some private sectors but it did not happen.
Our poor postal system that has been losing money for years—fewer first class and more commercial. They can’t handle the volume of mail that mail in voting will cause. In WA we started with one county…than a district before going state wide. The bugs had to be ironed out. We have been doing mail in for many years with free postage but many seek out the free auditor boxes found all around town. We do not trust the PO to even get the mail across town in under 3 days!
Most teachers , like Civil service retirees, have a very good retirement system. SS is not the be all that it once was. They keep telling folks to have additional retirement sources set up. . Not many can live off of $1200-1500/month and some pay outs are far less than that. Medicare takes every pay increase we see. Unknown to some, the more you earn—the more you pay. It is not $144 and the secondary costs are far more than medicare I thankfully have a state pension after just 5 years of employment that equals 1/3 of my social security. The states usually pay pretty well and most teachers are state paid..
It is unfortunate that some have paid into SS and will get very little of it
If you only worked privately for a few years your pay might be tiny…but consider that person who dies before ever collecting. Yes, perhaps he may have kids or a wife who can collect…but maybe he doesn’t. There are some retired teachers making 6 figures in these states that want the rest of us to bail them out. This is a state/union problem. I cannot cry you that river. Sorry.
Incidentally—calling people” ignorant, clueless, stupid, indifferent, resentful toward women-minorities and Muslims” is no way to promote your ideas. I voted for a business man who could not be bought as my president and not an “orange baffoon” … Just saying
Trump can’t be bought? He was bankrupt four times and bailed out by Russian oligarchs. They own him.
If you call inheriting half a billion from Daddy, losing it on stupid ventures, and turning to various scams (Trump University) and to laundering money for Russian kleptocrats being a businessman
https://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/fundFAQ.html
It truly astonishes me, April, that you can ignore the entire history of this criminal in the now Whiter House. It’s not as though his story isn’t readily available for anyone who wants, actually, to learn about it–hiring someone to take his SAT, Daddy pulling strings to get him into Wharton, inheriting over half a billion dollars from Daddy that he described as “a small loan,” refusing to rent to people of color, being buddy-buddy with Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell, stiffing contractors, going into the corrupt casino business and utterly failing, cheating on his spouses, a long history of sexual assault and rape, shady deals with mobsters from by the US and Russia, committing bank and insurance fraud, calling on Russians to hack his opponent’s email, sleeping with porn stars and then paying them off, doing real-estate deals with Russian kleptocrats, abandoning our allies the Kurds, withdrawing from the INF and Open Skies Treaties, telling aides that he wants to withdraw from NATO, being mostly absent from office, refusing to read briefings, praising Confederate traitors, using immigration law to break up families of hard-working people trying to better themselves and create a decent life for their children, calling Nazis “good people,” misappropriating charitable funds for private use, attempting to fix the election by attacking the Post Office, having to ask an aide what is commemorated on Pearl Harbor Day, thinking that one could inject disinfectant and that Belgium is a city and that stealth planes are actually invisible, pretending to be a Christian whose favorite book is the Bible when he can’t name a single verse from it and refers to “Two Corinthians,” lying with almost ever breath he takes, gutting environmental regulations, pathological narcissism, being utterly AWOL for the pandemic but strutting around calling himself a “wartime president.” He’s appalling. A vile, profoundly ignorant, completely amoral, racist, sexist criminal traitor.
Bob,
You forgot his tax fraud. The story was told by The NY Times and won a Pulitzer Prize. It was based on the family financial records supplied by Mary Trump. The Trump siblings dramatically undervalued their estate to reduce the tax bill. Not to mention stuffing the children of oldest brother Fred Trump Jr., who had died and couldn’t protect his children. For tax purposes, the Trumps claimed Papa’s estate to be worth $30 million. Its actual value was $1 billion. The siblings have Mary and her brother a share of the $30 million and kept the rest for themselves.
Oh, Diane, there isn’t time enough in a day even to begin to list the man’s crimes. Looking forward to his exchanging the orange clown makeup for an orange jump suit.
Biden could perform brilliantly in the debates by simply reading Trump’s own ignorant and vile words back to him, verbatim.
This is the guy who dumped his wife and told reporters that he couldn’t be with someone whose body had “been ruined by having children.” This is on tape and included in one of the Netflix documentaries about him. He was talking about his WIFE, the MOTHER OF HIS CHILDREN!!!! How can you support such a man? He’s utterly disgusting. A creep. A total creep.
Give me this, April: I didn’t use the word “pig” to refer to him because that would be unfair to pigs.
April, this is not who you want to be: someone who supports so vile and destructive a person.
He RUINS LIVES. Think of the thousands of people–hardworking people hoping to realize the American dream, to start real-estate business and support their families–scammed by his fake university. Think of the children of the very poor who had their school lunches taken from him. Think of the kids who fell victim to predatory “colleges.” Think of the DACA kids whose country this is as surely as it is yours. Think of the children separated from their parents. Think of the Kurdish soldiers who fought for us to crush ISIS, abandoned by him to be slaughtered. Think of the almost two hundred thousand citizens who have died while he died that Covid-19 was real, called it a hoax, and refused to take the obvious actions to abate the spread and provide necessary supplies and equipment to fight it. Real people whose lives have been ruined by this man who thinks only, only of himself, who cannot even meet with the families of wounded or dead vets without spending the time talking about how great he himself is. He’s a very sick man who cares about nothing and no one but Donald Trump. A pathological, malignant narcissist.
Think of the women he has groped and raped who cannot receive justice because he is protected by the DOJ’s ruling that a sitting president, even if he is such a monster, cannot be prosecuted.
Mnuchin can explain all he wants, there’s nothing much here to see. Businesses have been cool to the payroll tax deferral; it costs $ to implement & causes logistical headaches while helping business little or not at all. For employees it’s impractical: it doesn’t put more $ in pockets because it’s just a deferral & has to be paid back in 3 mos– another headache. This is why many look on it as a cynical move toward undermining Soc Sec [& Medicare]. While you criticize SS & Medicare, they are a whole hell of a lot better than nothing & retirees in fact do depend on them. I don’t see anyone blaming Trump for funding issues, just for an irrelevant and gratuitous attempt to temporarily kneecap it. Long-term adjustments will be made to keep it healthy as has been the practice. Bush’s proposal to privatize was neither credible nor even seriously considered. There are simple solutions at hand that would cost a fraction of revenues lost thro his tax cuts, let alone Trump’s.
Mr. Klonsky’s great piece presents what needs to become a theme in the Democratic media campaign leading up to the election: Trump’s plan would DESTROY Social Security and Medicare and is a stealth attack on seniors.
What I don’t understand is that Seniors are very concerned about their benefits, yet I see so many Senior men sporting their red MAGA hats around town. They love their Medicare and they look forward to the 1st of the month when “the eagle flies”, yet they back Trump and the GOP…… that has been trying to eliminate every social safety net for years. I don’t get it? Am I just to assume they are just plain stupid? Do they not love their children and grandchildren who will be left to clean up this mess? I don’t understand…..
Fox News commentators are so good at spin…. it’s almost like a brainwashing network. They are probably spinning this as a Democratic scare tactic or that everyone will win with no S.S.
And not everyone watches, reads or understands and interprets the news the same way. It’s a little scary.
Assume they are just plain stupid. Ask any of them if they think their Social Security should be eliminated, and they will say “hell, no!” Tell them that Trump wants to eliminate Social Security, and they won’t believe it. Is it possible they don’t know that the payroll tax funds Social Security? I wish someone would conduct a poll to determine whether most people know that simple fact. Kill the payroll tax, kill Social Security.
These are people who made the system. They know that they paid into it with pennies per paycheck and now reap the benefits in hundreds or thousands. These are people who complain that they have to pay $20 for a 3 month supply of medication while the rest of us pay hundreds/thousands for employer based health insurance that covers almost nothing or we have to fight for every benefit that’s supposed to be provided. They walk into a Dr’s office and pay little to nothing for medical care. They get Meals on Wheels for little or no payment at all. They are the ones that make the statement that “money doesn’t grow on trees”. They know where the money comes from! I really don’t get it…I guess I can only assume that they are greedy AND stupid. And there are tons of them where I live.
I think you overestimate what they know. “These are people who made the system”– nope. 85-y.o.’s were born the year the law was signed, and 5y.o. the year the first benefits were paid. Most people of any age will tell you Soc Sec is a savings program– they’ll be getting back the money they put in. Few get that the $ collected via payroll tax now is what funds their checks. A lot of regular people therefore don’t connect many dots on this issue.
exactly said: a LOT of people do not connect the dots
that million dollar question: why do people openly vote against their own interests
Just senior men? Really?
Robert Rendo…..the women I don’t know? The senior men are there on the shopping trips with the wife. It’s the men who are always wearing the MAGA hats and the ladies look pretty prim and proper with their “wash and set” hair (they wouldn’t wear a hat).
These are profoundly ignorant, clueless people. They get their “news” from Fox. They vote against themselves.
Ciedie, “that million dollar question: why do people openly vote against their own interests.” Not connecting dots is certainly part of it, which goes to being uninformed… and incurious, and unhabituated to researching info [even tho it’s a snap these days]… I think all those things relate to minimal &/or low-quality education. Non-college-educated whites were 20% more likely to vote for Trump in 2016. And that “diploma divide” started in 2008– partly because of long-dissatisfied blue-collars turning away from Dem Party, but also because new Prez black! From a 2018 voting analysis by D Smith et al, ignorant attitudes matter even more than ed. “If you look at white people who voted for Trump—both those with college degrees and those without—and identify everybody with a high level of resentment toward minorities, women, and Muslims, as well as those who want an arrogant, assertive leader, there’s almost no one left. The vast majority of Trump voters share those sentiments, the researchers found, regardless of education level.”
You know what’s interesting about all of this? There are some laws and components of our so society that are nebulous and not so easy to understand. SS and Medicare are not one of them. How can people possibly just vote to not have those benefits or not want them for their children, grandchildren etc. by supporting this monster and their elected officials? Rand Paul, McConnell, Cotton supporters??? It’s SO bizarre. Like, I can see something more multifaceted, such as war campaigns, import and export laws, protection of wetlands (not that I am in favor of how those things have been handled by either party), but SS and Medicare are direct benefits in a guaranteed array of services and monies. Are Americans that divided, that distracted, and that, well, I’ll say it, STUPID????
I am 56 and I now have to not count on getting my SS and Medicare by the time I was (going) to take them. I have been working for 39 years, and just cannot believe that my own aunt, a Trump supporter, is 86 and has enjoyed and relied upon SS since she was 65, and now I stand well to not look forward to it, even as I paid into not only my funds but into the funds that she is consuming and depending on, which keeps her independent in her own house. Her son, a staunch Trump supporter, just turned 62 and he thinks he and I are likely to still get ours, but he said he cannot answer for younger generations.
I am mortified . . . . angry . . . . saddened . . . and never had to find myself in the position of loving family members and loathing them at the same time. Are humans capable of that dichotomy? I guess I’m living proof. It’s so uncomfortable.
So, we might be headed to become like, Russia, Mexico, and China, where their SS and Medicare versions are sad and token jokes, leaving most people to fend for themselves for the most part and not allowing a middle class to expand. They are all plutocracies. And then we have France, Finland, and England – to name just a few – where this sort of thing is not a very substantial issue.
Americans are far too individualistic for their own good and they foolishly identify with the ruling class on the basis of religion and freedom. Their selfishness and pursuit of individual freedoms and liberties comes with a steep price for all, and now it’s about to catch up with them and all of the rest of us. The ruling class does not believe in sharing its toys for the good of the commons. They want to transform this country back into Edwardian England, and they are rapidly succeeding not mainly because of their efforts (they have always wanted this, most of them), but mainly because of the support the American people foolishly gives them. It’s a phenomenon I cannot fully or economically explain . . . .
American indifference and passivity and willful ignorance abut politics is also rapidly catching up . . . Too much post WWII prosperity as most of us in older generations have enjoyed such middle class comforts (I say most, not all!) that we did not think we needed to pay attention to the Dulles brothers, the Kochs, and ALEC, just to name a few.
Yes, “stupid” is a good adjective, and to overplay a cliché, stupid is as stupid does . . . I will take my own share of the responsibility.
Ever watch “Ozark”? It’s a series my husband & I enjoy. Thought-provoking– as have been some other series which take on the willingness of citizens in long-poor [generations of poverty] areas to become part of a criminal subculture to survive, or perhaps thrive if they’re willing to take on additional risk.
Of course we’ve seen that forever among oppressed minorities, mainly in densely-populated urban settings where there’s sufficient market to float any number of schemes. But this series is about savvy white suburbanites on the run from failed middle-class white-collar crime, moving on to make hay in white-trash rural enclaves by promising them something better than meth factories/ addiction.
“Ray Donovan” and “Breaking Bad” and “Weeds” — other series along these lines over the last 10 years. A big part of character motivation is American culture’s bent toward individualism at all costs. That might just mean starve before you go on the dole, or alternatively, rip off the SSI system– but if you’ve you’ve got the smarts & courage, dance ahead of the law & get a piece back for yourself.
Of course this is fiction, & over the top. Characters inevitably are thwarted or at least majorly threatened by larger, more organized criminals [the suspense usually lies in these intrepid upstarts trying to avoid both law-enforcement & organized crime]. But I am paying attention. Its popularity suggests there’s a chord struck in general [majority, white] public w/ characters’ obvious fatalism re: economic [lack of] potential, cynicism as regards govt– no help for the law-abiding little guy, acknowledgment of & expectation of interminable & entrenched corruption– nowhere for individualists to go except outside the law. It’s like we’re living in 20thC Sicily– from our couches, Walter Mitty style.
The idea that he is our president for another 4 years is so depressing. I think I really would try to find a way to move to Canada this time.
btw – I live in a state that does not allow teachers to collect S.S., but we also don’t pay into it. We pay into our retirement plan. It can be unfair to teachers who entered the field later in life and paid in to social security for many years.
and it is so personally felt when one state does not allow it and another state does
That’s the same situation as Illinois. No one advertises the fact that they are going to reduce your SS (or your spousal) benefit by 2/3 of your monthly pension. I plan to die first
Not only do teachers not get social security but any SS benefits earned in covered jobs are cut by as much as 2/3. So all of you late career teachers or all of those who need a second or third job to survive, tough. You will pay into SS but you won’t benefit from it. It doesn’t matter that those extra or previous/post teaching jobs were totally separate from teaching. You still don’t get the full benefits from that work! Remember you career switchers who decide to follow your passion and teach,…your SS benefits from your previous career will be diminished by 2/3 of whatever pension for which you are eligible at the end of your teaching career.
I think there are 5 or 6 states that made agreement with the feds that teachers can choose SS or their pensions but not both. It’s absurd because racers pay into SS as well and should be getting theirs, pension or no pension. DISGUSTING!
Teachers pay unto SS . . .
I am a retired teacher from California, a state that also doesn’t allow a full SS payment to be made. Actually this is a federal law, if I understand it rightly, that disallows a full SS payment to people also getting a government-based pension, which I am. But I do not get a full SS payment, although I do get a partial SS payment, which pays for the Medicare contribute (Medicare is not free, people) plus about $50 left over that comes to me directly.
I worked enough at other occupations to get my forty quarters in and it would be nice to get a full SS payment, but that is not the case. It is also not the case that I get nothing, so I do have a common interest in protecting SS from the ravening GOP monsters.
That’s about where I am. SS pays for Medicare + but that is based on my husband’s salary. If it was based on my work history, I would be paying them! Most of my SS security is from jobs just removed from college. I made $100/week.
I forgot to say the windfall provision is not a federal rule. It is a state by state decision whether they will contribute to SS. Illinois has been reneging on their share of pension obligations for decades. Paying their share of SS taxes would never fly.
All teachers should be concerned about jeopardizing Medicare even if they are not collecting Social Security. Medicare is widely accepted by healthcare professionals across the nation. Medicare covers serious medical conditions that almost all senior citizens will face as they get older. Politicians have been chiseling away at the coverage so many people carry a supplement to cover the gaps, but it is still a very successful group plan that provides quality low cost service to the elderly. Seniors cannot compete in a free market scenario, and the costs of insurance would be unattainable to most.
By the way senior citizens should be wary of signing up with Medicare Advantage Plans. The ads are everywhere trying to lure senior citizens. These plans promise all kinds of attractive benefits and services including gym memberships. However, these plans are operated by the insurance industry, and they have the power to deny coverage when seniors need critical care. Medicare Advantage Plans are a way to privatize Medicare. Like charter schools they lure in the unsuspecting with fancy marketing schemes. Joe Namath works as a shill for them. You may have seen his pitch on TV.
Thanks retired teacher, it’s what I was thinking but you spelled it out better than I could. Soc Sec is paid by all & benefits all whether they collect it or not. The costs to society of destitute elderly does not bear contemplating. Ditto Medicare [also a target of payroll tax deferral].
Love your post, above, Bethree, about current US television and the endemic corruption in our culture. Brilliant and beautiful. You should expand this into a full-length essay and publish it. One of the best treatments of strongman politics (what Trump strives for) I’ve ever encountered is the John Malcovich film Siberian Education. I highly, highly recommend it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xCfJkUeOg8
Thanks, Bob! I will check out that film.
I live in NJ and do get Social Security plus my pension (thanks be to the celestial beings and dumb luck, I guess). Social Security matters to all working class people, it’s crucial and important. Retired teachers may be married to spouses not in teaching who will get SS, their children will qualify for SS at some point unless they become teachers and live in the states in which teachers don’t get SS payments. Those teachers who don get SS have parents and older relatives who do depend on their SS payments. The SS trust fund is worth about $2.7 trillion made up of special issue treasury bonds. They are not worthless IOUs, they are as valid as the cash in your wallet or the treasury bonds that millions of Americans own. The trust fund is expected to be depleted sometime in the 2030s. Even then, SS can still pay about 75%-80% of its benefits to retirees. The trust fund short fall could be easily solved by raising or eliminating the cap on the SS wage tax; the cap is currently set at $137,700. One political party is determined to destroy SS, Bush tried to stab it in the back but flopped. The orange buffoon may succeed unless he is cast out of office.
As Trump does his best to destroy the Postal Service, expect a slowdown in the arrival of your Social Security check. Rural communities, which voted overwhelmingly for Trump, will lose their Post Offices. Rachel Maddox ran a feature last night about Montana, which was slated to lose many of its drop boxes for mail. Massive protests, including from both senators, canceled that decision.
Yes, I also heard that they were gathering up mail boxes in Oregon which conducts all its elections via the USPS. Fortunately, I get my SS payment electronically, not through snail mail. I get direct payment to my checking account on the 4th Thursday of each month. However, that will not protect me if the GOP succeeds in its evil machinations against SS.
My bad, my SS payment is on the 4th Wednesday of each month.
My SS arrives electronically to my bank account, like yours.
Those who are counting on SS by mail to pay for groceries and rent may have a long wait. Will they blame USPS or Trump?
Off topic- Don Winslow posted a video about Mother Pence. Winslow describes Mike Pence as Trump’s 4th wife.
Out here on the left coast in California, I will not collect Social Security if and when I retire (‘if’ because I won’t be able to retire if Trump kills all humanity before I get the chance.) I have every reason to care about keeping and expanding Social Security, however. Social Security makes my students better. It means that Grandpa can be less of a burden on Mom, so Mom can take better care of the child in my class. It means Mom can save for her retirement with help from both her employers and the U.S. Treasury, giving her more to spend on the child in my class. It means the child in my class has a brighter future because their retirement will be funded partly by society. Social Security is part of the social safety net. It makes society better. I’m part of society. My students are part of society. I care about society.
Good point and well said! Without Soc Sec [& Medicare], the amount of family poverty that already significantly affects learning in our country would be much higher.
Our kids are caught in a double bind. The offshoring of mfg/ labor raises the ed bar much higher for attaining a middle-class income. And simultaneously greatly increases the numbers of working poor whose imposed family lifestyle undercuts kids’ educational potential. Seen in that lens, Soc Sec/ Medicare at leasts blunts the most severe effects of poverty– it’s all we’ve got, & teachers/ unions need to fight for it. But we also need to fight to bring mfg back home.(Covid alone is teaching us it’s a matter of national security). Too many have just given up, satisfied w/the goal of taxing globalist billionaires– to, what, support the masses to do nothing but answer their phones & bring them coffee?
People need to know what that payroll tax is for. So many people are dependent on SS for their income. Mine makes up half of my retirement income. Not to have it would really hurt me.
The temporary relief from the tax really will not make much of a change in a worker’s income and it is to be paid back. It actually helps the employer more as they don’t have to pay the employer’s share of the tax for all their employees. Will any one keep track that the employer will pay that back in the two years? Or will it just be a loss to the SS and Medicare fund?
SS helps families when a parent is disabled or looses his life.
Eliminating the payroll tax is a gift to employers. Employees will see a short term gain, but they will face a much worse crisis when they are elderly or ill. There will be no social safety net to help them. Old people will be put out on the streets.
Some teachers are eligible for Social Security. I am.
I started working and paying into Social Security when I was fifteen and I never stopped all the way up to when I was 30 and became a teacher. After I became a teacher, I stopped paying into SS and paid into CalSTRS instead. So, I paid into SS for 15 years and did not for the next 30 years.
When I was eligible to collect SS, I was told I had earned SS benefits of $600 a month, but that is not what SS pays me each month.
Congress passed laws decades ago that because public schools receive federal dollars, teachers that earned SS by working in the private sector for part of their working life would have their SS cut in half due to what’s known as double-dipping.
According to this piece from the NEA, “Congress rethinking GPO-WEP, controversial laws that penalize retired educators” [Note: All Congress did was think about it and to this day retired teachers are punished when it comes to Social Security, because they were public school teachers.]
“He was abundantly aware that two controversial laws—the Government Pension Offset and Windfall Elimination Provision (GPO-WEP)—could drastically reduce retirement benefits for teachers like him.
“GPO reduces public employees’ Social Security spousal or survivor benefits by two-thirds of their public pension — 9 out of 10 people lose their entire spousal benefit, even if their spouse paid Social Security taxes for many years.
“WEP reduces the earned Social Security benefits of an individual who also receives a public pension from a job not covered by Social Security — meaning hard-working people lose a significant portion of the benefits they have earned themselves.”
https://educationvotes.nea.org/2016/03/23/congress-rethinking-gpo-wep-controversial-laws-that-penalize-retired-educators/
At no time did the federal money trickling into my school district pay even half of what I earned as a public school teacher in California, but most if not all teachers that are eligible for Social Security continue to see their benefits cut in half or worse just because they were teachers for part of their working years.
My $600 SS eligibility was cut to $300, and when I signed up for Medicare, it was cut to $150 and the other $150 goes to Medicare.
Certainly looks like a whole lot of injustice built into those laws. Seems like if you earned SS benefits in the private sector, you should get them…
Nevertheless, I suspect our average taxpayer who never taught in the public sector [someone like me, for example], wonders why anyone w/a full-career teacher pension needs anything else, even if they worked in the private sector for a decade. Take my sis, 58 y.o., at this point 35 yrs into a pubsch career that has included roughly 20 yrs teaching, 5 yrs mixed teaching/ admin, 10 yrs all admin. She says she could retire tomorrow & make [as pension] same salary she’s making today. What if she were 68, having entered teaching 10 yrs after private-sector work– should she beef at not getting that benefit too?
Meanwhile hubby & I look down barrel of immediate 50% deduction in income, moving from his 46-yr breadwinner job to full retirement. Which is why at age 71 (since luckily his services are still in demand), he works on, 1/2-3/4 time at an hrly version of his salary, despite being forcibly retired at age 68. [Well, not the only reason– he enjoys being able to continue on, working at what he likes to do w/ flexible sched & minus the onerous managerial resp].
From our perspective my sis is in a very good position. We don’t begrudge her: she’s got advanced degrees & has worked like a dog for decades to improve the lot of public kids, & proud to say she’s gifted at what she does. She represents an excellent investment by taxpayers. But I still say: if she had a previous decade under belt in private sector, no earthly reason for her to collect any of that SS benefit.
And would you say the same about someone who is getting the maximum out of social security and put money into an IRA which a teacher was not allowed to do? Plus what about those of us who entered the teaching profession full time late? My top salary never reached more than many blue collar jobs, and yet 2/3 of my spousal benefit is taken. Someone in the private sector able to have a retirement savings account has that as well as the full social security benefit. They “earned” their money. Shouldn’t we take some of their social security because they don’t “need” it? I never made even half the maximum salary from which SS tax is deducted and yet they take 2/3 of my benefit.
I am glad you put that in speduktr, & was hoping for responses from other examples, because surely they vary across the board. Can’t follow everything you say– e.g., teachers were not allowed to establish IRA’s? That seems crazy. Hubby & I set up IRA’s at a time when we were also contributing to corporate pension plans [’80’s– corp pension plans disappeared in ’90’s, replaced by 401(k)s, but you could still contribute to IRA’s if you could manage it]– that’s outrageous & should have been illegal! I don’t understand what “2/3 of my spousal benefit was taken” means, but clearly you’re pointing out there was a fin disadvantage to starting teaching “late,” which sounds like another ripoff (grrr).
My example (of my sis’s situation) is just one– from a strong teachers union state w/good bennies in her era– where a taxpayer might justifiably say, 35yr-career teachers pension is enough, she doesn’t need to also get full soc sec benefit from another job she had for a decade or less. But there’s no way the same rules should apply to someone who started late & never made more than a blue-collar worker: you should be getting full soc sec benefits from private-sector jobs. These states can’t use
their computer algorithms to assess the variables fairly? These laws that affected Lloyd (& maybe you) sound like they were just about slashing state budgets, not about fairpension laws (e.g. ’70’s ERISA, which righted things for corp job-hoppers).
I applied for benefits under my husband rather than under my own meager earnings. I don’t know what the formula is but the benefit is something under 1/2 of what your husband would be eligible for. Then SS reduced that amount by 2/3 of my pension, so as Lloyd says it essentially pays for Medicare plus a small stipend. I don’t think my own SS benefit would even cover Medicare. As I said, If they reduced it by 2/3 my pension, I would owe them money!
Teachers can generally pay into a 403B. It is a tax deferred savings account. I have pension and a 403B which can be converted to an IRA when you retire.
Why not just let us have an IRA? Admittedly, I never made enough to contribute to such a plan with four kids and lots of student loan debt. I don’t complain for myself. We have been fortunate to have some inheritance, which we have been very careful to conserve and let grow, but I do feel for those people who chose to go into teaching (late) who find roadblocks to building retirement income. I especially feel for those who teach in areas where teachers are forced to go from their teaching job to a second or even third job just to make ends meet. Just how effective do you think a teacher can be who has to work another job after school? Given that those of us that didn’t have to do so (other than summer jobs) routinely work far beyond the school day, how do they do it? There are too many jobs in this country that will never allow someone to take care of their own retirement income when they don’t even make enough for current needs. SS was never intended to support someone, but the reality is that it does, however poorly. with the growing inequality in standards of living, it becomes more and more obvious the few take far more than they give.
RE: rich people collecting soc sec who don’t need it. It’s worth pointing out that richie rich only gets benefits calculated on earned income, not passive inherited wealth. And even if they earned the max benefit [about $36k], their other income means 85% of it gets taxed as ordinary income– but those taxes aren’t going back into the SSFund. I totally agree: there shouldn’t be any payout from Soc Sec funds to people pulling in hundreds of thousands in retirement! Let alone millions or billions.
Oops, sorry– I just learned that income taxes paid on Soc Sec benefit DO get swept back into the SSFund.
“Retired teachers in that state, like many others, don’t collect Social Security. ”
I do not understand. Why don’t they collect it? As a protest?
They receive a government pension as a result of their having taught, so receiving both was considered double-dipping and curtailed.
And the states didn’t want to pay their share of SS as well as their pension obligation. I’m not sure why they reduce the SS benefits earned in non government positions or from a spouse’s employment in the private sector where the SS was paid by the employer and the employee. The state had no part in it. They are the ones getting the windfall.
Just the terminology is unclear for me. I thought Social Security means the federal retirement to which we contribute each month. Plus “they didn’t collect” to me just means, the teachers didn’t want to pick up their money for whatever reason.