The following comment came from Bridget in North Carolina. That state has been taken over by an extremist legislature and governor who are intent on driving experienced teachers out of the state and replacing them with Teach for America or other low-wage workers.
When Jim Hunt was Governor of the state, he raised teachers’ salaries to meet the national average. Today, NC teachers rank 46th in the nation. They have not had a raise since 2008.
**************************************************************
The latest from North Carolina – State Senator Warren Daniel replies to a parent’s letter expressing concerns about cuts in teacher pay by comparing teachers to corrections employees, and says they should teach for love, not fair wages:
Ms. Greene,
Do teachers teach because they love teaching, & they love children, or
because they are paid at some national average? Are you considering that
in addition to the State salary, teachers also make approximately 14
thousand dollars in taxpayer paid benefits, and most counties have salary
supplements? In addition, compared to similarly situated state
employees, a teacher’s work year is approximately two months shorter.
While a department of corrections employee or a highway patrolman may
have to work on Christmas and Thanksgiving, teachers receive vacations
for every major holiday and are with their families. These are factors
that are almost never mentioned in this discussion. Noone believes that
a teacher’s job is easy, but neither are the jobs of many of our state
employees.
I hope that we are able to give all of our state employees a raise the
session, but as you mentioned we do have serious budget issues to contend with. And sometimes the only solution to that, is to gore someone
else’s ox in the form of cuts to other departments.
Thank you for your comments, and for recognizing that we have serious
government challenges in this economic downturn.
Sincerely,
Senator Warren Daniel
NC Senate District 46
Burke, Cleveland
Source: http://payourteachersfirst.com/in-the-news/
Email a response to Senator Daniel: Warren.Daniel@ncleg.net
Please share widely!
Diane Ravitch's blog 
The problem that we teachers face is two-fold. First, we don’t teach July and August, although most have to find other employment to supplement our teachers’ salary. Second, there is the perception that, anybody can teach. There is the thought that if we went to college and majored in History, that is sufficient to enable a person to stand in front of a classroom and teach students. Michelle Rhee’s thinking is that people who have worked in business or Wall Street, are sufficiently versed in making presentations to fellow employees that they can present “simple” mathematical concepts to 9th or 10th graders. It is tiring fighting these perceptions. And just like racial or gender prejudice, it will never change. Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 13:02:18 +0000 To: nicholas_marcantonio@msn.com
Perhaps ironically, I imagine that these same perceptions partly explain why so many people go into teaching in the first place. That is, without these perceptions, I wonder if we’d be able to find millions of people willing to do it for a living.
In Louisiana, I am paid for ten months but stretch my money to go twelve months.
Daniel needs to understand that teachers are paid for the time that they are employed. We are not paid for time off, and we are not compensated for the hours of work that we are expected to do before school, after school, and on weekends.
“We are not paid for time off, and we are not compensated for the hours of work that we are expected to do before school, after school, and on weekends.”
Are you paid an hourly rate under your contract, or a salary?
Under my contract, we are paid a salary. On my paycheck stub, an hourly wage is listed, but it’s meaningless. Our district has been told that we are REQUIRED to do “other duties as assigned,” even if those are not during our contract time and thus unpaid, because we’re salaried and not hourly employees.
What do you mean by “our contract time”?
Seriously?
No. Couldn’t be.
Sorry, I’m not following.
Teachers are salaried usually, I think, for ten months. We would be unaffordable if we were paid by the hour since the workload is far more than a forty hour week. An eight hour day was so rare that I can’t remember one. “Vacation” was a time to catch up on planning, grading, and paperwork not to mention professional development. My last three years when I kept closer track of my hours, I worked the equivalent of 365+ full days for each ten month contract.
That was my experience too. My work weeks ranged from 60 to 100 hours. There were days I was on campus at 6:00 AM when the gates were unlocked and the alarms turned off and I didn’t leave until 10:00 PM when the alarms were turned back on and the gates locked. And when I actually went home early (early means an hour or more after my last class left), I would sit at the kitchen table and spend several hours correcting student work, recording grades and planning lessons until my vision blurred. This went on for most of the thirty years I was a classroom teacher. Weekends and holidays were not exempt.
The other issue with Daniel’s comment regarding other state workers stems from the misunderstanding of how most state employees generally are compensated for their time. I know that plenty are eligible for overtime and the increased wages attached to it. Teachers are not eligible for OT, yet they do it as part of the job. They get no pay for these extra hours let alone an increase in wage whereas some police and prison security officers have a time card they punch that shows when on duty and off. This was left out of his “argument.” Perhaps we need to point that out to him? 2old is right–nobody would be able to afford teachers if they were paid for all the time they put in outside of the contracted day.
And for FLERP, the contract stipulates when a teacher is on duty and off (assigned responsibilities by the district on the premises). That is what is called the contracted day.
Thanks. I think I’ve seen this before, provably in the UFT’s last contract in NYC. Seems like there’s some fundamental tension between the fact that you get a salary that is “annual” yet work under a contract that has provisions stating that the “workday” or “school day” is X hours long, between X am and X pm.
Yeah, the tension comes in when you cannot get your planning and correspondence in during contracted hours because there’s so much of it. I understand that in Finland, they teach daily about as long as they plan. In the U.S., teachers get a very short amount of time in the contracted day to plan without supervising/teaching duties.
Salary, yes, but there’s far too much work to do. I never get it done during the contracted planning time. Now the new evaluation model is taking a great deal of extra time. For instance, today I spent 45 minutes verifying that my 28 class lists were updated with the system just so that the SGPs and SGOs can be attributed to the correct people. So I got nothing done in the way of planning or parent communication. Essentially, my contracted preparation time today was spent providing information that satisfies a mandate supported by the flawed premise that I affect all the learning my students do or do not do.
The work just continues to be piled on, but nobody seems to care that teachers have lives to live outside of their jobs.
Well stated. Teachers, everywhere are facing this.
I don’t know how common thi is, but police officers in a MAJOR NC city are not paid overtime. They may work a 12 hour shift and then spend hours in a courtroom.
Why do people assume that public employees are sucking the system?
I would have a hard time figuring out when I am working and when I am not. The lines are not all that clear.
The arrogance and ignorance of politicians knows no limit!!! 8 years as a NC teacher, 9 years teaching and a Masters’ Degree and in NC I am paid less than $43K a year. I work a second job and a summer job. I don’t even crack $50K a year even with those. His response is insulting to teachers everywhere. If we follow his reasoning, then teachers should just teach for free. Seriously?!? What a crackpot.
What Daniel needs is a course in writing. I suggest he register for one as soon as he is voted out of office.
My son is a police officer in the state of NC, and I have observed that “public workers”, in general, are not fairly paid in that state.
How would we know if people are paid “fairly”? One possibility is to see if they are willing to take the job at the offered wages because all things considered it is the best opportunity they think open to them. Another possibility is for an outsider to make the decision for them, deciding that they should not work for such a low wage. The problem with the latter view is that it is likely that the employer would not be willing to offer as many jobs at a higher wage.
The “best” opportunity open to a person at any particular time may not be related to fairness at all.
I can tell you, TE, that I know some things about NC that you apparently do not.
The question remains, how do you know that a wage is fair or not?
Wage is one factor of compensation. States disallowing bargaining rights to unions or associations tilt the scale.
Indeed there are many aspects to compensation. When, taken as a whole, can they be considered fair? When are they unfair?
TeachingEconomist,
Do you believe all compensation information should be public for all jobs so markets can efficiently function?
Do societies using slavery properly price their labor?
Do you think businesses include long term returns when setting wages?
Should labor be afforded the same protections as intellectual property?
Yes
No
I am not sure what you mean by this, could you elaborate on it
Again not sure what you mean by this. What “protections” do you have in mind?
I think it also wouldn’t be perceived quite as insensitively as it can be (his letter) if teachers hadn’t been frozen for six years on a pay scale—-teachers who have been teaching for six years are still receiving a first year teacher salary. That’s where the real aggravation comes in. What he is saying is technically correct, but if you add it to the history of teacher pay in the last six years, it comes across as extremely callous and flippant (bush league).
We get this all the time in Buckeye State. One school board member awhile back suggested all teaching should be volunteer. Yes, I came from business, but I NEVER assumed I knew all about teaching. I valued my experienced mentors though they were younger than I. I took seriously the evidence based university classes. And I do love teaching. But I don’t think you solve poverty by putting teachers in it.
This demonizing is apples to oranges comparisons sprinkled with grass is greener. Not much you can do when people view you with disgust for what you do or who you are. Their minds will never change until it affects them personally.
Having worked in both private business and teaching, I find the comparisons ridiculous and without merit. In business, we hired contract workers on salary all the time. We didn’t expect them to work for free beyond a 6 month contract. Professionals in business are offered bonuses, stock options, and you can work up to 4-6 weeks vacation – though some of that has eroded in the recession, but that is another issue. At one company, we received a 3 month sabbatical for working 5 years ON TOP of 4 weeks vacation and holidays. I also found the “on” work in business much less than in teaching. What was an eye opener for me was the amount of intense, dedicated effort required to run a classroom and responsd to students. In business, sure we worked hard, but was also had much more flexibility, long meetings, “training” trips, and flex hours. I do believe for the 10-11 months teachers are “on”, the work is much more intense and demanding than other similar professions.
These types of politicians like this divide and conquer – police v. teachers, public v. private, old v. young. it is a way to distract the public from the job the politicians are doing – or lack thereof. Police do have a tough job. So do teachers. So do doctors. So do lawyers. So do nurses. So do corrections. I value them all.
It is no small thing that in the “business world” one generally has the flexibility to relieve oneself when necessary.
I have compared teaching to a full day of tap dancing with about 20 minutes for lunch.
This is a constant issue for me, I’m the furthest from the teacher restroom, and no one else is in my wing. When I have four classes in a row, I have two minutes to sprint to the restroom and back before I’ve infringed on someone else’s prep time. When I have kidney and bladder issues later in life, who should I sue?
“Their minds will never change until it affects them personally.”
Truer words never spoken.
Yeah. Sen. Portman in Ohio was staunchly conservative till his own son came out. Then his tune changed. Our car dealers were all about free markets till Tesla wanted to change the business model. Then they suddenly became fans of protectionist big gubbermint. Kasich was all about accountability till the auditor wanted to check the books. On and on. Ohio has become a clown show except they never stop coming out of the little car.
Car dealerships have never been much into a free market. Here is a good Planet Money podcast about car dealerships:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2014/03/14/290241292/episode-435-why-buying-a-car-is-so-awful
“as you mentioned we do have serious budget issues to contend with”
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t the current NC elected government cut state taxes for the wealthy and corporations causing this budget crises?
Here is some simple math that I use when people bring up the “Teachers have so much vacation time” comment.
Regular schedule 50 weeks x 40 hours/week = 2000 hours
Teaching Schedule 40 weeks x 50 hours/week = 2000 hours
Dear “Senator” Daniel:
Show some freaking respect.
I can’t find a way to email this to you, Diane; I thought it might make a separate post for you. Hopefully you’ll see this. At any rate, this teacher-legislator exchange from NC, posted earlier this week, makes Daniel’s response look positively brilliant.
http://obsdailyviews.blogspot.com/2014/05/nc-senator-to-charlotte-teacher-youve.html
“I can’t find a way to email this to you, Diane”
Go to dianeravitch.com and pause the cursor over the “about Diane” tag and then click on the “contact Diane” button
And, what is his salary and what are his perks, and does he earn them daily?
I am still trying to figure out what these $14,000 in benefits he’s talking about? I teach in NC and I have no idea what he could possibly be talking about. Surely, he does not think that this is per year. He didn’t specify how much and what benefits he is referring to. Again, more rhetoric to try to justify their degradation of our educational system in this state. I am in my 18th year of teaching and I just barely make 41K a year. I like the comment about having all the holidays off. Yet, I would gladly work a holiday and get paid time and a half as workers who work holidays get paid. I noticed he didn’t mention that fact. In addition, do correctional officers require a college degree? Many teachers are saddled with debt from attending college. Forget the fact that I put a lot of money from my own salary back into my classroom in order to have the tools to do my job! Let’s insert that into this equation when we start comparing teachers to other state workers that do not require a higher education or the need to put money back into their work PLEASE!
After 18 years of teaching I can no longer afford to stay in this occupation and am actively seeking a career change. This is something that breaks my heart but it has become necessary.
Warren Daniel- 1991 graduate of the U.S. Military Academy. (Not too shabby, and no loans to pay off)
2000- after transferring from active duty to the reserves, he graduates from law school. (GI bill?) opens his own law practice.
2011- takes office as NC state senator. Salary, $13,000+ per year plus $104 per diem (not taxable)
Obviously, he is still in law practice. Maybe a military pension? Or still in the reserves? Does anyone know?
And clearly, he’s entitled. Other public servants, not so much.
I don’t think Warren Daniel has a military pension. Correct me if I’m wrong, but one has to serve a minimum of 20 years to be eligible for a partial pension and thirty years for a full pension through the DOD.
Here’s his bio from Vote Smart:
http://votesmart.org/candidate/biography/117792/warren-daniel#.U3eHRfldV2o
Attorney, Daniel Law Firm, Practicing Attorney, Morganton, North Carolina, 2000-present
Farm Owner
Assistant Professor, Military Science, Utah State University
Second Lieutenant, Army Field Artillery, United States Army, 1991-1997
It would be interesting to discover if this “farm owner” receives any subsidies from the U.S. Government not to farm. The US governments hands out billions annually to millionaire farmers not to grow food.
My understanding is that his years at the US Military Academy count at years of service. This would give him 10 years which does qualify him for some adjusted benefits. When he can collect ( age 62?) is a factor. Remember, he transferred to the reserves at that time.
Farm? Property taxes are significantly lower. And you don’t have to do much to qualify for “farm”.
My point remains- whether or not he qualifies for pension benefits, is that he knows where to find what advantages him the most. To hell with the rest.
“he knows where to find what advantages him the most. To hell with the rest.”
The typical sociopath, narrow-minded narcissist who joins the GOP.
Hope all of you are voted out just a much of crooked thiefs.
Thieves!!