A reader suggests where to find a nation-state where the government truly leaves you alone to do whatever you want:
| As I have read here and there on the blogosphere, if you really want a truly individualistic, no governmental “interference”, no taxes kind of society, go to Somalia.
On the other hand, I’ve also been reading about man-made nation-states on the high seas. Presumably, when they don’t get what they want, all the pooh-bahs will pack their bags and become expatriates on a floating gated community. If this works out anything like ed reform, they’re in for a rough ride (hurricanes anyone?). Education reform is a scam, of course, but very few people will be headed to Somalia, they’ve convinced folks they can have their cake and eat it too. With any luck maybe wise people can turn this around! |
Diane Ravitch's blog 
Don’t know where exactly to put this comment, so I’ll drop it here. I opened my Word for the Day email and found today’s word (phrase) to be most appropriate in the charter school debate: cui bono (to whose benefit?). We must always be asking ourselves this question when it comes to education reform. Sadly, the answer is not “the children”.
I once asked a libertarian why, if they think having no state is best, they don’t hold up Somalia as their ideal.
Apparently “failed states” where the state has collapsed are the wrong type of stateless nation. Their ideal has to be somewhere the state has deliberately chosen to abolish itself.
Presumably they only like stateless utopias which are set up by the state.
I have a lot of respect for libertarians because they do not support anarchy but the U.S. Constitution. While we may have some minor differences, I find the “drama” behind this post humorous.
I really do not see people calling for anarchy but I do see them calling for supporting a LIMITED Govt. per the U.S. Constitution.
The 10th Amendment spells it out clearly, The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
States have their own DOE’s. Local communities have their School Boards. Why is there a “NEED” for another layer of bureaucracy?
We have 4,200 employees in the federal Department of Education making an average of $103,000 a year. This money would be better spent in local classrooms and there is NO good reason to have bureaucrats so far removed from our local communities micromanaging the classrooms.
Sorry, but I’ve had virtual discussions with many libertarians and I have come to the conclusion that it is a cult and dogma that works out great for billionaires like Steve Forbes, the Koch brothers or Pete Peterson but not ordinary Americans. Libertarians are totally opposed to such programs as Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment insurance and yes, public schools. One libertarian kept referring to the government as the gooferment, over and over. He did not even believe in public schools of any sort. He felt that it was up to the parents to educate the children on their own, home schooling or private schools. That is insane. He was even for privatizing the roads, the police and other public services that we take for granted. Reading about libertarians like Rand and Ron Paul is enough to give you the vomits. They always hide behind THEIR interpretation of the Constitution which is pretty skewed and twisted. They think that taxes are theft, they do not believe in a commons or that we are a society with common interests and goals. In their world, it’s every man, woman or child for himself. In a sane society, this awful cult would just be a fringe group to be laughed off the stage of history. I loathe and despise libertarianism to the nth degree.
“opposed to such programs as Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment insurance and yes, public schools. ” yeah because if you want that you can form a co-op to get that done with 95% better results and lower costs. The deep state is a failure, all of us can create better solutions without government. My H insurance before”affordable care act” was 486 a month, 2 years after ACA I could not buy insurance anymore except once a year and it cost 1600 a month. Thats why libertarians say we can do it better in the market, because its proven. Nations can’t make a common group for everyone, because everyone won’t work together, we’re individuals, just look at churches globally in any religion. A different flavor on every street that meets the needs of the people who CHOOSE to do things together with their free will. That works because people choose to do it. Government is force without representation and without a way to improve what is broken, hows that working for you or anyone?
I’m sorry for you.
I love the American government.
I have Medicare and it’s great. When I needed open heart surgery, I chose my own surgeon and Medicare paid the bills.
Social Security is great too.
You love the American government? I know you’re either joking, or you don’t live in America or you’re from an era where people believed in the gov blindly and you have not changed beliefs based on the facts. That gov tested nukes on their own military recruits, paid for Covid to be created by China’s military and released (proven in congressional hearings), has a deep state that caused the war with Russia and Ukraine (facts all on wikileaks from CIA), called for and assisted in facilitating an invasion of 20 million illegals from all over the world to intentionally destroy your governing power and to create a neo slave labor work force for the globalist class., broke nearly every law they ever wrote while tossing citizens in jail for just lying to them. Destroyed health care in the USA and the entire profession of doctors which is why we now have a massive shortage and people can wait up to 6-9 months to get to a dentist or doctor in some places. In addition to promoting AI and connecting AI to all military vehicles, planes and missiles and then also allows satanists to pretend to be a religion and put their mascot Satan’s stature in our courts and such. Oh and let’s not forget about the 65 million children they paid to have murdered under eugenics that has been a long standing genocide against minorities and the poor, all documented to be true for those with an education to read it. Plus we know from court rulings they also did everythign they could to abolish free speech which is the fundamental cornerstone that all human rights rest on in 2020-2024. I think you may be in love with another country, because if your in love with all that, you may want to re-evaluate what you know about your deep state controlled foreign power funded “”representative gov” “. I could write over 100 pages that prove the US gov is fake and illegitimate. Hell they won’t even PROVE who wins elections anymore, 70% of the US population did not trust the last presidential results, 70%, which means democrats and indies did not even believe the results.
I wish you all the best in uncovering these truths for yourself so you know who your representatives actually are.
Do you know what the OECD is, Mr. Davis? It is an economic cooperation group that includes all the very wealth Democracies of the world, including Japan and the US and Canada and most of Europe. ALL THE COUNTRIES in the OECD have universal national healthcare plans EXCEPT the United States. The per capita cost for healthcare in the US is DOUBLE the average of the OECD and the HIGHEST in the OECD. But the United States has by far the worst health outcomes–among the highest infant mortality rates and lowest longevity rates and the highest rates for EVERY MAJOR DISEASE, such as cancers and heart disease. Why? Because Socialized Systems actually work. And to see that, one has simply to look at a country like Denmark or Finland or Germany. There are existence proofs that these are much better systems–far cheaper and far better in terms of health outcomes. WHY? Well, in the U.S. an enormous percentage of healthcare spending is siphoned off into the private profits of big healthcare companies–pharma, insurance, hospital chains, senior care facility chains, etc. Before you make these utterly IDIOTIC and unfounded statements, actually GO OUT AND LOOK. The facts overwhelmingly falsify everything you have said. One has to live in a provincial bubble and not to know anything about what goes on in the rest of the world to believe the bullshit you believe. Educate yourself.
Hello Bob, thank you kindly for your input and respectful discourse. Please do not infer that my distaste for our “Affordable Health Care Act” and the insane high insurance rates that came from the law, are a rebuttal of proven and legitimate co-operative health systems. Some of which are run in the countries you mention among others. I’m fairly educated with several high degrees, and have extensive knowledge of many health care systems globally. My original post was about “co-op to get that done with 95% better results” so lets revisit please. Before Obummercare 🙂 my family enrolled into a co-op health care system in super liberal Seattle and the co-op was a super liberal medical co-op (more liberal than AHCA). We joined them and had the best insurance and care I think could exist. As a co-op member I had input to how the organization ran and received a dividend refund if they had a massive overage. I could call them, change my plan any minute, knew exactly what my bill was always before and after visits, could change doctors at will and generally ask for any treatment, get it without hassle if the doctor agreed. When Obamacare arrived, my co-op bill for entire four member family was 486 a month. Two years after Obamacare the co-op was closed because it could not comply with Obamacare law under its charter of democracy. So I had to look at the “new health marketplace”, the lowest cost plan was 1600 a month for half the benefits of the co-op. Thats my story and their are millions like it. While some gov’s can manage to do this right, ours can’t even count money and abide by legitimate economics. Therefore how about the nation eradicate Obamacare and replace it with about 50 new health co-op operating under charters of democratic control and non-profit status, and outcompete every health care system in the world? Thats kind of the utopia right, where the patient is the owner and has rights that ensures they receive care they can afford? Your opinion is honored here, so chime in.
Makes sense to me, Derrick. I thoroughly approve of a lot of these co-operative associations in many areas of life. For example, I would like to see a lot more of worker groups owning businesses–what is known as syndicalism.
My ex-wife’s father was one of the sailors who won damages from the federal government resulting from INTENTIONAL testing of nuclear fallout on sailors shortly after WWII. A truly awful piece of our history.
Social Security and Medicare are the best we have. Both do enormous service, ofc. My advice: don’t fix what isn’t broken, but improve it where you can. Seniors need dental and vision care. These need to be part of Medicare. Everyone needs affordable healthcare. That’s why Medicare needs to be universal. Medicare for all.
I’ve noticed as a summertime EMT/Firefighter they sure don’t hesitate to call us when they have a need. Ayn Rand’s revenge hit here though. Budget cuts and a refusal to raise taxes on the “job creators” has caused us to close several stations and lengthens our response times. This made it harder for a local large corporation to expand, the county feared they couldn’t provide adequate coverage. They could provide their own fire department if they really believed in what they preach. I am sure they will call us if they need us though.
If this is really the level of the debate, I can play. If you want to live where the government will never leave you alone, head out to North Korea.
I don’t think taking any posters position and endowing it with your conception of the most extreme version of that position and criticizing that extreme version is very helpful. No advocate of public education is secretly arguing that the government making all decisions for all individuals all the time. No advocate of school choice is secretly arguing in favor of anarchy.
No one said that. This was a response to libertarians who want zero government. Cheap shot.
Diane
Perhaps I missed the posts of libertarians advocating anarchy. Typically even the most radical ones I know of are in favor of a functioning legal system. For that, you need a government.
Your comment was silly.. No one on this blog advocates the abolition of the private sector. Cheap shot.
Diane
Sigh. No one on this blog advocates the abolition of the public sector. That was, of course, my point.
Actually, there are politicians that advocate nearly that very thing. “Government small enough to drown in a bathtub.” –Grover Norquist. Also, many comment that the federal government has no role in education. Constitutionally they would be correct except for civil rights issues requiring equal rights for all.
They may advocate for a smaller government, but even the most extreme politicians are not advocating anarchy. The point of my original post is that constructing straw men, on either side of any debate, is not very helpful.
No one constructed a straw man other than you.
You write often with great condescension towards the many educators who read this blog. You seem to have zero empathy for those who teach America’s children. No one here is one of your economist mind games. They have real lives dealing with real children and are under enormous pressure to produce higher scores on meaningless tests or be fired. You really don’t get it.
But didn’t you say that this post was in response to “libertarians who who want zero government”? I am just pointing out that there are no libertarians that want zero government, so the original post was not a response to any actual position.
I try to respond to the actual positions people take here,so I would appreciate it if anyone would point out if I am responding to an argument that posters are not giving in their post. I am sensitive to this because I have been rudely insulted here by a poster that completely misread a post and had to point out to several others that I was not making the argument they accused me of making.
There were many comments on this blog from parents who are home schooling and want government to get out of the way. Didn’t you read them?
There are many comments about a reduced role of government in education. I have never seen a post here arguing in favor of anarchy. I think it is important to remember that advocating for school choice and advocating for anarchy are not the same thing.
I have underestimated the absurdity of libertarians.
I found this article by a libertarian arguing that Somalia is better off without a state:
http://www.libertariannews.org/2011/06/30/anarchy-in-somalia/
That’s fascinating! Thank you for posting it.