Last night Rep. Jamie Raskin posted a comment on Twitter about his visit to a nearby ICE facility:
I just exercised my right as a Member of Congress to conduct an unannounced oversight visit of the ICE field facility in Baltimore. The staff I met with respected my right to visit, but what I saw was disgraceful. Kristi Noem has a budget of $75 billion she could use to ensure humane conditions, but we saw 60 men packed into a room shoulder-to-shoulder, 24-hours-a-day, with a single toilet in the room and no shower facilities. They sleep like sardines with aluminum foil blankets. Whether it’s for three days or seven days, nobody would want a member of their family warehoused there. The room set aside for dangerous criminals and violent offenders was empty. We’re demanding immediate answers and action.
What kind of a person treats other human beings this way?
Is cruelty its own reward?
Diane Ravitch's blog 
Remember when everyone thought these were pictures of Trump’s detention facilities and they turned out to be from Obama’s term? https://www.businessinsider.com/migrant-children-in-cages-2014-photos-explained-2018-5 Maybe if Democrats weren’t so gung-ho to outflank Republicans from the right on immigration….
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Oh please! Obama deported people who entered the country illegally. So did Biden.
Neither of them sent masked, armed thugs into cities, towns, workplaces, and courthouses to snatch and grab people.
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The article you posted is about ICE facilities, not about how people end up in those facilities. And, yes, Obama absolutely sent armed thugs into workplaces and elsewhere to snatch and grab people. https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/border-patrol-was-monstrous-under-obama-imagine
In any case, illegal entry is a civil offense comparable to a moving violation. It’s not a crime. There is no reason why Republicans or Democrats (especially the latter) should be treating immigrants like criminals.
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I certainly agree that immigrants should not be treated like criminals. Trump-Noem caused a huge backlash by their brutality in Minneapolis.
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“Maybe if Democrats weren’t so gung-ho to outflank Republicans from the right on immigration….”
Oh please this has to be the most fact-free rationale for refusing to condemn the outrageous Trump policies that are so harmful. Yes there were rightfully demonstrations against Obama’s immigration policies (which paled compared to what Trump did once he got in office) but the top officials of the Obama administration weren’t out there working to convince Americans that tear gassing and firing multiple bullets into protesters was required because these protesters were dangerous domestic terrorists. Some protesters were arrested and removed, but that’s far different than the treatment they got under Trump. Obama wasn’t out there trying to convince Americans with his bully pulpit that undocumented immigrants were violent and dangerous and kidnapping and eating their neighbors dogs and cats. No one should be surprised that this person finds the orange haired oaf funny in a way that the immigrants in Springfield Ohio – soon to be rounded up by Trump – don’t. Will this person tell Springfield’s immigrants to ignore the evidence right in front of their eyes about how Biden protecting them and join her in blaming Democrats who are evil and “outflank Republicans from the right” on immigration? She STILL refuses to acknowledge the very real damage Trump has done – it’s supposedly no worse than under Biden. It’s all the fault of Dems who are “gung-ho to outflank Republicans from the right on immigration….”
Anyone who can’t acknowledge the very basic fact that things are horrible under Trump in a way that they were not under Biden is revealing their own political preferences.
Dems are far from perfect, but trying to defend Trump from criticism by pushing the lie that Trump is just continuing the policies of the Dems who have been outflanking Republicans on the right on immigration? That is a lie worthy of Trump himself, or any of his dishonest officials.
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Oh for pity’s sake, one of the biggest Democrat talking points in the run-up to 2024 was Democrats bragging that Biden had deported more people than Trump. Yes, Democrats tried to outflank Republicans on their right. Your refusal to acknowledge that does not bode well for your hopes in 2028. If you run a fake Republican against a real one, the real one will win.
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Biden was no fake Republican. He passed major legislation with the thinnest possible majorities.
Trump has claimed credit for the infrastructure spending that was passed by Biden.
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There are no real Republicans in this administration. They’ve all been ousted as RINOs, as would Dwight Eisenhower, George H.W. Bush, & Ronald Reagan if they were around today.
The actual RINOs are the Neo-Confederates now dominating the administration.
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You are correct . All the real Republicans are now Democrats. That’s how the Overton Window shifts. Today’s Democrats are to the right of Ronald Reagan, while the Republicans are so far right they’ve fallen off the edge of their flat earth.
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Lenny, that’s brilliant! The Trump gang are neo-Confederates.
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Oh for pity’s sake, if one of the “biggest Democratic talking points” was really that Biden had deported more people than Trump, then apparently no voters actually heard it, since one of the biggest voting issues was that Biden was too soft on undocumented immigrants.
(You have disingenuously confused defensive statements to counter Trump’s attacks that Biden supported open borders and allowed violent illegal immigrants to run free to rape and murder with “biggest Democratic talking points”.)
YOUR biggest talking points are amplifying the propaganda that’s exclusively directed to the left: those evil Dems are to the right of Republicans on immigration. Have you ever tried to convince any pro-Trump anti-immigration voters of that? Scare them into thinking that Trump is not as anti-immigrant as Biden and Obama is? I’m guessing not, since your main goal seems to be defeating the Democrats, and if that empowers Trump, you just don’t care.
But I hope you don’t have the unmitigated gall to make the ridiculous argument that people who actually paid attention to immigration policy – because they were very concerned about PROTECTING immigrants – were just like you and decided that “they’re eating the pets” TRUMP would be a perfectly reasonable alternative to the supposedly evil Democrat and certainly no worse.
You are constantly insulting the intelligence of those who care about undocumented immigrations AND trying to excuse your own bad judgement for closing your eyes to the overwhelming evidence that Trump was going to be very, very bad for anyone who even looked like they could be an immigrant and very very bad for those who protested his vile policies. We told you so. And I wish we had been wrong. But we weren’t, and you don’t have the grace to just acknowledge how terrible Trump is.
Do you lecture the families who are now afraid to leave their homes that they don’t know the truth that you know – that they are in no worse position than they were when the evil democrats were in power? Is that how you give them comfort? By assuring them you will continue to excuse what Trump is doing by dienne-splaining about how Democrats are worse, and promising to keep working hard to defeat those evil Dems who are to the right of Trump on immigration?
I’m glad people get to read your comments here where you haven’t once expressed any strong antipathy to Trump and his reprehensible and UNPRECEDENTED terrorizing of immigrants and his unprecedented terrorizing of those who protest his vile policies. You exclusively direct your condemnation toward people who criticize Trump, especially Dems, who are always the real evil-doers in your comments that you post almost any time Diane Ravitch is extremely critical of Trump.
You protest so much that I really am starting to think that you are trying to alleviate your own guilt. You still can’t acknowledge you were wrong about how bad and dangerous Trump is. Or perhaps you just agree with Trump that his critics are so unfair and keep victimizing him, when it’s the Democrats who are the bad guys.
We’re all wrong sometimes. Why can’t you just acknowledge that you were wrong about exactly how dangerous and awful Trump would be?
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“Today’s Democrats are to the right of Ronald Reagan…”
Again, deliberately false propaganda that is ONLY directed at those on the left. I doubt this person ever tried to convince conservative voters who don’t like Trump but fear that Dems are commies/socialists that “Dems are to the right of Reagan”. Because that propaganda is only directed toward those on the left.
There is even more evidence that today’s Democrats are to the left of Jimmy Carter on many issues, but you won’t hear our resident Trump/Putin defender ever saying that Dems are to the left of Jimmy Carter.
ESPECIALLY when it comes to healthcare. Carter had a large Dem majority in Congress and Ted Kennedy was pushing hard for universal healthcare. I voted for Kennedy in the primary because Carter thwarted this country getting universal healthcare when the majority of the Dems wanted it.
Jimmy Carter did some very good things, as did Joe Biden. Biden was also to the left of Carter on many issues. Arguably he was to the right of Carter on other issues. But invoking Reagan to lie about where the Dems stand today? Just another sickening way to avoid having to recognize the harm done by those who devoted themselves to saying Trump was no worse than a Democrat and still won’t admit they were wrong.
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Cruelty is the Miller answer for limiting immigration. If it becomes obvious to potential immigrants that they will be mistreated, they will not want to cross the border. Then Trump’s claims of a sealed border will be true.
Meanwhile, a pent up demand for border crossings will meet any humane regime. At that point, trumpists will scream about immigration (but do nothing to add people to process asylum applications or patrol for border crossings) so they can get elected again, despite being the cause for this pause and flood approach to maintaining a real border.
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Roy,
When will farmers complain that they can’t find anyone to work?
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there have been some who suggested this. Mostly farmers are hurting for markets and by high overhead right now.
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Farmers in Texas are hurting because of not having labor to plant and harvest.
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Farmers of corn, soybeans, and cotton are so mechanized that labor is minimal. The problems they have deal with profit margins that are incredibly small for the investment. A cotton picket boats in excess of a million dollars, a v cc imbibe harvester, over half that amount. Feed operations for beef and dairy are also mechanized, but labor is needed, and I know that these farmers have used immigrants for labor in recent years.
Special crops like vegetables and fruits are very labor intensive, and I suspect that Trump will leave them alone for the most part, for he could lose important votes in Texas and Florida.
Farmers have this habit of shooting themselves in the foot when it comes to voting. I know very few farmers who are actually informed when it comes to political policy. For a smart group, they are remarkably susceptible to fear appeals and generally support empty patriotism and faux religious noise.
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The three big states for fruits and vegetables are Florida, California, and Texas. If Trump deports their farm workers, the farmers will be in big trouble
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Very true. I have been waiting for Miller to go after California immigrant labor to hurt California. I suspect someone is smart enough to realize that crops rotting in the field would be bad publicity.
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ICE did go onto farm fields in California and literally drag away people harvesting crops at the beginning of the ICE Terror.
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Spot on, Roy. The extreme cruelty is designed to send a powerful message that will be heeded.
Very unfortunately, ICE and DHS are hiring people who seem to enjoy inflicting that pain, fear, and suffering. And then the people on FOX who cheer the process on. And their viewers who drink it all in as gospel truth.
Sick stuff.
I heard about a large scale study which showed that “Americans” aren’t going to just step in and take over these jobs that immigrants do in agriculture. They overwhelmingly choose unemployment over that work. Then there was Noem saying that the able bodied Medicaid recipients could fill that need…
What…?!
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Maybe native-born Americans will do farm labor if the farmers pay top dollar. Say, $25-40 an hour. Think what that will do the price of fresh foods.
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The interview regarding this issue was on the 2/13 Brian Lehrer Show:
https://www.wnyc.org/story/why-fewer-immigrants-doesnt-mean-more-jobs/
He mentions your point of increased prices in the grocery stores, which really highlights the slim profit margin that many farmers operate under.
Another point made was that without the lower priced labor, many farmers are going to opt for automation, when possible and available.
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Then there is the other aspect of farm labor. Much of it is seasonal. For all my life, seasonal labor has been cheap. Mexicans that worked in this seasonal labor pool often went back home after season, but also followed other harvests. Cabbage harvest brought such migrant labor to the mountains of North Carolina back in the 1980s. I was struck as a young man in Homestead, Florida by a sign in a market: “No more than two pickers in store at one time.” Of course they wanted to go back.
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The for-profit companies like Geo Corp. and CoreCivic group spend as little as possible on services while they charge we the people an exorbitant amount. That is one the guiding principles behind privatization. The privatization of services that we all depend on or where health and well-being are at stake generally does not serve the recipients well as profit takes priority over the needs of people. Much of the bill for ICE is a scam.
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RT,
There was a cable TV program about women in prison called “Orange is the New Black.” It was very popular (maybe because of soft core porn). In several episodes, the prison is taken over by a private company. For profit. The food portions become smaller, with low quality ingredients. The professional guards are replaced by bullies. Cost-cutting is king, leading to deadly riots. The producers told a story about privatization.
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We know exactly what kind of person treats other human beings this way.
A good start would be for press & social media to stop sanewashing references. They’re not “ICE facilities” or “immigrant detention centers.”
Everywhere you post about these places, call them what they are: concentration camps.
Britannica.com does differentiate between “concentration camps” & “detention & relocation centers.” Let’s use the one where the description matches the conditions.
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Anytime we start talking about “warehousing” people, we are doing a grave dishonor to the thousands of real humans being sent to these centers.
And don’t make the mistake thinking that Obama built ALL the detention centers. The tRump administration has contracted for more “centers”, like Alligator Alcatraz to be constructed all across the country.
Obama followed the laws of our country. The people were given their rights.
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FYI-Trump is turning actual warehouses into camps. https://www.commondreams.org/news/list-of-ice-detention-centers
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