The great debate between Senator JD Vance and Governor Tim Walz did not change any votes.
JD is a skilled debater, more so than Tim Walz. Both seemed to go out of their way to be civil. Neither of them attacked the other with teeth bared. They occasionally seemed to be searching for common ground.
You would need a fair amount of background knowledge to know how frequently and coolly Vance lied. He said that Trump saved Obamacare. That was a lie. In fact, Trump tried to repeal Obamacare; the party slogan was “repeal and replace.” The GOP never had a plan to put in its place. They still don’t.
Vance denied that he ever supported a national ban on abortion. That was a lie. He is on video saying just that.
Vance said for the umpteenth time that the Haitians in Springfield, Ohio, were there illegally; a few days ago, Ohio Governor Mike DeWine wrote an opinion article in The New York Times saying that the Haitians in Springfield were legally introduced to this country.
When asked directly about January 6, he dodged the question and said that on January 20, there was a peaceful transfer of power. He didn’t mention Trump’s refusal to concede or to attend Biden’s inauguration.
When asked whether Trump lost the 2020 election, he dodged the question and claimed that Kamala Harris had engaged in censoring people during the height of COVID (I’m not sure but I think he referred to the government’s efforts to combat COVID misinformation.)
CNN released a fact-checker’s report on the debate. According to CNN, Vance was fact-checked 15 times on his claims, while Walz was fact-checked only twice.
NPR had the best of the fact checks of the debate.
Tim Walz was flustered and failed to answer crisply when questioned about claims he made over the years about being in Hong Kong at the time of the Tianamen Square massacre in 1989. He answered awkwardly, then said he “misspoke.”
No one is likely to change their mind after the VP debate.

Andrew Cuomo would have made mince meat on Vance.
LikeLike
Yup. Walz personifies Minnesota Nice
LikeLike
Yup. And Minnesota nice is more appealing than Noo Yawk strident to the Minnesota independent and Republican-leaning voters who have consistently voted for Walz over the years. There are a few occurrences of this type of human in Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin–yunderstand? Last night, Coach Walz was talkin’ mainly to them, not to Ratso Rizzo or me. I approve his message.
LikeLike
It was nice to hear that all those immigrant workers who are undercutting American wages being paid bellow minimum wage ; are gobbling up all the 800 k houses on Long Island.
LikeLike
lol yeah that was a bit of a contradiction
LikeLike
Sad that I picked that up and Waltz did not harp on it. Also sad that he never mentioned that median inflation adjusted wages as measured by the same DOL. were higher than in 2019 before covid. And that most of those wage increases went to the bottom 3/5s of the work force. The failure to defend the Biden Economy with rising wages and record low unemployment for the longest period since 1965 is atrocious. Some people always suffer in any economy. But the failure to defend the record leaves a vacuum that is filled with Republican nonsense that gets repeated endlessly in the media. You want prices to come down in mass. The last time they did that was 1929. .
LikeLike
Excellent points all, Joel.
LikeLike
Right…!? He had me scratching my head on that one, too.
LikeLike
Vance definitely looks like the future of the post-Trump national GOP. There had to be a lot of Republican voters wishing he was their nominee.
LikeLike
No big deal if Walz had been in Hong Kong in 1989. It means nothing. I’ve been to Hong Kong twice. Once in 1966 and another time between 1999 – 2008. And I know what really happened in Tiananmen square. And it isn’t what most people in the US think they know.
Hong Kong is 1,966 km (1221.616 miles) from Beijing and in 1989, Hong Kong was still a British Colony. The British didn’t give Hong Kong back to China until July 1, 1997.
LikeLike
And I know what really happened in Tiananmen square. And it isn’t what most people in the US think they know.
Do tell, Lloyd.
LikeLike
Some of the key issues were buried deeper in the debate. Why weren’t they asked up front? (What if the whole shebang had started with January 6? It should have.)
And, I thought Vance got a pass on some of the nutcase ideas that have spewed out of his mouth in the past. Not sure why he caught that break, too?
Vance gave a course in Sanewashing 101.
LikeLike
That Vance could be this slick after spewing such outrageous falsehood on the campaign trail should be a wake up call. If you believe in representative government, Republicans today are a huge threat to your beliefs. It’s not just Trump.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I’ll take the Vance version any day over Trump.
LikeLike
I felt Vance was smoother than Walz but there was also a pervasive sense that JD believes in nothing he is advocating for while his counterpart is a true believer in his unabashed progressivism.
Then there’s the sedition, prevarication, election denialism and xenophobia…
LikeLike
I was disappointed to know that Yale “educates” soulless carnival barkers who know how to momentarily make the shht stop smelling so bad. CBK
LikeLike
I wrote this on another of today’s posts. Here it is again:
If you didn’t know recent history, Vance would have sounded perfectly reasonable last night.
I love Harris and Tim; but I wanted to hear the term “dictator,” and I wanted Tim to ask Vance if they really would jail Trump’s detractors (aka truth tellers) if they won. He could have asked Vance whether he voted for or against the border bill, and several other missing truths.
And it was aimed at policy and not character. BTW, when Trump was shot in the ear, did you think he was saying “fight fight fight,” or was it “fxxk fxxk fxxk”?
It’s a part of our present Republican and Trump-made shame that the democrat’s niceness and civility ended up running interference for the silver-tongued devil. CBK
LikeLike
Vance is more dangerous than Trump because he lies so effortlessly, making him more credible. Of late, Trump’s lies are so desperate he looks more and more buffoonish. (EG: Kamala Harris has a phone app that tells the cartels where to drop off would be immigrants.) The chances of Trump surviving for the next four years aren’t great, actuarially speaking. I doubt Vance is unaware of those odds.
LikeLike
What you said, Christine. I couldn’t agree more. & if it45 became (G-d forbid) it47, I predict a Biden-esque it47 departure, & a crowning of President J.D.
What do you all say? I think the Groveling Old PSYChOPHANTs would go for that big time. (A Senator; a peer.)
LikeLike
If Trump wins, it’s all over for the Oblivious States of America.
LikeLike
Well…it was a refreshing change from Trump vs anybody. Vance was at least civil.
And, yes: he’s more skilled at lying than Trump.
He’s also good looking. Optics. Always optics.
I’m so hoping that Jack Smith’s Jan 6th evidence is allowed to be shown before the election. The Tyrannosaurus Rex in the room. It’s not a question of his innocence so much as whether he can get away with his crimes or not.
LikeLike
Good-looking? He reminds me of Sam Neill as the adult Damien in the Omen III. Must be the eyeliner.
LikeLike
He does wear eyeliner! However, he wasn’t wearing any at the debate. Telling.
LikeLike
Not telling. All policitians, like all movie stars, wear makeup for public appearances, where they will be photographed. This was a choice made by his image team. In contrast, Waltz’s image team seems to have consisted of his cousin Marvin.
LikeLike
Bob, that’s called authenticity. I understand some people like it. On the other hand, there’s Trump, who has no idea what authenticity is. I think he is most authentic when he’s hawking stuff.
LikeLike
Bob:
Love your comment at 9:41 PM, “Walz’s image team seems to have consisted of his cousin Marvin.” Made me LOL.
&–BTW (also, EEW)–if it’s Vance’s “image team” that has him (usually) wearing eyeliner, it gives him the unflattering “image” of “Sam Neill as the adult Damien in the Omen III,” as bethree described him. Speaking of LOL, if you want a good one, watch Haley Joel Osment as Vance on “Jimmy Kimmel Live.” Actually, in the portrayal, J.D. comes out looking like Tammy Faye Bakker, especially like Jan Hooks playing Tammy Faye Bakker on “SNL!”
LikeLike
Another blogger wrote about “the difference between T[sic]rump and Vance. My deep analysis: Wrinkles.
LikeLike
Vance is a smooth operator. He is smart and articulate, but he still remains unlikable according to a CNN poll. Walz increased in likability by fifteen points in another poll. Walz held his own.
LikeLike
Correct that this was a wash, like the overwhelming majority of these debates. (I don’t think the needle gets moved unless one of the debaters bombs spectacularly.)
If I were grading this as a debate performance, I would give it to Vance, who was much slicker than I expected—this is clearly his best format. But Walz did fine. And of course this is not just a performance—people’s feelings count here. I’m seeing a lot of polling showing that overall, and among independents, Walz was judged to have done better.
https://x.com/historyboomer/status/1841460564280643892?s=46&t=vV_4bJ7GuABaalzetJofQA
And just to show that
LikeLike
Walz could have recalled T’s 2017 explanation of why he hadn’t delivered his promised “phenomenal” health care plan:
(Everybody knew — except T.)
Maybe he was too polite, since he & Vance were getting along so well.
LikeLike
It’s still too complicated to describe the GOP replacement for Obamacare. But Trump says they have “a concept of a plan.” A reporter should ask him to describe the concept. Maybe he has a theory of a concept of a plan.
LikeLike
Very funny, Diane! Your last sentence sound like something from “Seinfeld,” “Curb Your Enthusiasm” or (dare I say his name?) very Woody Allen-esque.
(I’m thinking Bananas–Defendant Fielding Mellish, “I object, your honor! This trial is a travesty. It’s a travesty of a mockery of a sham of a mockery of two mockeries of a sham.”)
LikeLike
Well said!
LikeLike
I think Vance’s civil approach may have taken Walz by surprise. So yes: it may have softened his approach.
LikeLike
The tone was low key and civil. Walz started a little nervous. Once he adapted, he did well on most of the policy questions because he had already successfully implemented many of the proposed social policies in MN. Vance spent a lot of time trying to normalize crazy old Trump, and he showed he had few public service accomplishments. Vance is a slick shape shifter.
LikeLike
Here’s a campaign ad coming out of the debate.
https://x.com/jamescrockerrr/status/1841489578928046360?s=46&t=vV_4bJ7GuABaalzetJofQA
LikeLike
FLERP,
Great ad!!
LikeLiked by 1 person
Inevitably, you will see all kinds of post-debate armchair quarterbacking around what Walz should or shouldn’t have done/said around topic X, or how he should have responded to the river of lies spewing from Vance’s newly sterilized mouth. But I give Walz credit for showing voters and supporters his authentic self, instead of morphing into some shape-shifting sycophant like his counterpart. Vance’s job is essentially to translate Trump’s public rantings and whitewash all of Trump’s insanity and lies, and turn it into something neat, clean, and tidy, with a breath mint thrown in for good measure. If MSM wants to fall all over themselves about Vance’s superior “debating” ability, go for it. Vance will continue to bob and weave around all those SM lie-filled videos, but as we teach our kids, if it’s on the internet, it will stay there forever. He can run (so to speak), but he can’t hide.
LikeLike
The preparation and presentation of Walz in the debate were both utterly incompetent.
LikeLike
There is no excuse, for example, for a candidate in a presidential debate today to appear red-faced (with all the negative emotions associated with that) under television lights. And almost all the coverage says that Walz seemed unprepared to answer questions and do adequate rebuttal of Vance’s predictable answers.
LikeLike
That’s exactly right about Vance. His job in the debate was to whitewash Trump.
“He did take part in a peaceful transfer of power on January 20.” Forget the insurrection, blood and death on January 6, the failed coup.
LikeLike
Trump keeps clinging to “…march peacefully to the capital…”
Why doesn’t anyone counter that with, “That was followed by…’fight like hell’…”.
Basically he gave them a choice.
Or it could be construed as, “March peacefully to the capital and, once you’re there, fight like hell…”.
LikeLike
This was the most egregious lie in an evening of egregious lies from this slimy pig. Lying about an act of sedition should itself be considered a seditious act, the act of an accomplice after the fact.
We have given up any pretense of having any freaking standards in this country. Traitors and seditionists in the highest offices in the land.
What a country of idiots.
LikeLike
That’s what Section 3 of the 14th Anendment is about. The authors of that section made clear that an insurrectionist should not be allowed to run for office. Our Supreme Court put their partisanship above their fidelity to the Constitutuon.
LikeLike
Exactly, Diane. Thank you, and love to you and yours.
LikeLike
Agreed, Bob. And they’re using (twisting) the very laws that were written to protect those who are innocent, to attain their positions of power.
LikeLiked by 1 person
@gitapik …& between “march peacefully” & “fight like hell” were 10 minutes of outright lies engineered to be provocative & infuriating.
LikeLike
@gitapik …& between “march peacefully” & “fight like hell” were 10 minutes of outright lies engineered to be provocative & infuriating.
LikeLike
BTW, that’s spelled PsycHophant when referencing it45 et.al.
LikeLike
If Trump wins this election, America deserves what it is gonna get.
LikeLike
I wonder if this is going to be their last lap strategy:
Vance: Good cop
Trump: Bad cop
LikeLike
I would put it this way:
TRUMP: crazy
VANCE: not crazy, cunning
LikeLike
Stephen Colbert reviews the VP debate: https://youtu.be/iwBVeDWernA?si=exWSxYCproZaUYTk
LikeLike
The worst human are characterized by no morality (that is, by psychopathy) and a low cunning. J. D. Vance;s breathtakingly low character might well be rewarded with the presidency of the United States. That’s where we are, folks.
LikeLike
SO so so much of it is optics and manipulation of the media, now. “Wag the Dog” was not a comedy.
Can’t lose faith, now, Bob. I agree that, to you and me, Walz wasn’t well prepared and Vance was. But Waltz was genuine…which is something that the Midwest holds dear. And those states are going to play a big part in this election.
LikeLike
Sadly, Bob, (IMO), your assessment of the debate is correct. I was appalled at the beginning: Walz looked like a deer in the headlights. He gradually lost that look but then appeared, at least to me, to look disgruntled, mostly upset &, at times, a bit angry. Sad that his team didn’t do a better prep job as he well-deserved. I felt badly for him, especially because he’s exactly the right person to have the V.P. candidacy.
LikeLike