As I write this, I’m watching the New York Police Department remove protestors from Hamilton Hall at Columbia University. On CNN, a retired federal judge, who was a student at the university in 1968, compares then and now. She says that the students in Hamilton Hall will likely be charged with trespassing, vandalism, maybe disorderly conduct or resisting arrest. As defined by the ACLU, the university has the right to define time, place, and manner of demonstrations and protests. Breaking into a building, smashing windows, and occupying it are not expressions of free speech.
Columbia University has about 36,000 students; possibly 500 were protesting, not all of them students.
Which brings me to the question that is the subject of this post:
“Are the campus protests advancing peace in the Middle East?”
I believe the answer is a resounding “NO!”
I believe that students should be protesting against both Israel and Hamas, for different reasons. Neither wants peace.
Students are right to condemn the Netanyahu government for its relentless bombardment of Gaza, causing tens of thousands of deaths, destroying buildings, schools, universities, homes, hospitals, mosques, and other cultural sites. Students are right to demand an end to the killing and bloodshed.
But students should recognize that Hamas is a terrorist organization that is not worthy of their acclaim. Hamas is dedicated to the eradication of the state of Israel. Both its 1998 charter and its 2017 charter make clear that its purpose is to eliminate the state of Israel:
“20. Hamas believes that no part of the land of Palestine shall be compromised or conceded, irrespective of the causes, the circumstances and the pressures and no matter how long the occupation lasts. Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea…” (2017)
“27. A real state of Palestine is a state that has been liberated. There is no alternative to a fully sovereign Palestinian State on the entire national Palestinian soil, with Jerusalem as its capital.” (2017)
Students should demand the return of all the Israeli hostages, alive and dead.
Students should call for an early election in Israel to allow Israelis to hold the Netanyahu regime accountable, first, for its failure to protect the Gaza border from invasion; second, for its brutal tactics in Gaza; and third, for Netanyahu’s failed policy of placating Hamas, passing along subsidies to it, expecting that it would abandon terrorism. At the same time, he has tried to cripple the PLO, which is the government of the West Bank Palestinians and was a party to the Oslo accords, in which the PLO and Israel agreed to begin planning for two states. Netanyahu courted Hamas and undermined the PLO to prevent any movement towards a two-state solution.
This disastrous policy came to fruition on October 7. A senior Hamas official pledged to repeat the atrocities of October 7 “again and again” until Israel is destroyed.
Both sides must eventually accept a plan to cease hostilities. Both sides must eventually agree to an exchange of Israeli hostages for Hamas prisoners. Both sides must eventually agree to a two-state solution. Other states—Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, the U.S., France, Germany, and the UK— must guarantee the borders and security of the two states, as well as the reconstruction of Gaza.
The only way this war will end is if both parties agree to sit down and negotiate a settlement. Are the pro-Hamas, pro-Palestinian demonstrations making such negotiations more or less likely? My own view is that the protestors’ one-sided embrace of Hamas makes Hamas less willing to negotiate because with every passing day, they win the public opinion war.
Politically, the demonstrations hurt President Biden. Sympathizers of the protesters may choose not to vote. Michigan, with its significant Muslim population, may go to Trump. The irony is that Trump, the beneficiary of the protests, sought a total ban on Muslim immigration after his inauguration, and he is very close to Netanyahu and his far-rightwing coalition.
If I could send one message to all the demonstrators, it would be this: Seek peace, not a Hamas victory. Put pressure on both sides to end this terrible war and to pursue a just and stable peace.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
And just so we stay clear on all the Power Players.
Rival Violent Rival Palestinian Hamas & Fatah are in Beijing China! Conducting “reconciliation” talks.
Hamas praised China’s efforts to reunite Palestinian factions. China’s historical “supportive stance on the Palestinian cause.”
https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-says-hamas-fatah-express-political-will-reconciliation-2024-04-30/
LikeLike
Yes.!!! I agree with your view of the demonstrations. And I would add a question about just who are the organizers and, since the demos seem very top down, who is making decisions.
LikeLike
GOOD questions!
LikeLike
AHHHH, Sanity!
LikeLike
I guess MLK and his sit-in protesters should have just “sought peace”, maybe worked out a compromise or something, right? Did disrupting all those peaceful people just trying to eat at the lunch counter really do anything bring about civil rights? Did shutting down the bus system and inconveniencing all those people really help anything? They should have just asked nicely and I’m sure they would have gotten what they wanted.
LikeLike
False equivalence, not remotely similar. Those protesters were willing to face fire hoses, dogs, clubs, & arrest for their cause, & didn’t whine that their free speech was being violated. They took the consequences with their heads held high. That’s why their efforts achieved change.
LikeLike
The campus protesters are likewise suffering the consequences with heads held high – they know that nothing they are suffering comes close to the suffering of the Palestinians. They are doing exactly what MLK said to do – peaceful, non-violent resistance and filling the jails. The only violence is coming from Zionist attackers and the police – there are hundreds of videos documenting this across the country, but Diane doesn’t let me post them.
It’s so funny how this blog tries to claim the legacy of MLK when every one of you on here are the white liberals MLK warned about. Go read the Letter from Birmingham Jail again and look in the mirror.
LikeLike
Dienne,
You need to know why I delete most of your comments.
1. When you insult me, I delete.
2. When you or anyone else says Israel has no right to exist, I delete.
Your tone is usually so hostile and condescending to me and the blog that it’s hard to post what you write.
By the way, MLK was a great and dedicated supporter of Israel. So was Bayard Rustin.
LikeLike
I did but the letter came out backwards.
LikeLike
One of my sons was active in ACT-UP many years ago. They were protesting indifference to AIDS, which was killling thousands of people, with no cure in sight. His group engaged in civil disobedience peacefully. They expected to be arrested. They trained to be arrested. That’s the consequence of civil disobedience.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Yes, Diane, that’s my point – we agree! These college protesters aren’t prepared or willing to accept consequences. The ACLU confirms that blocking public areas with living quarters, & occupying or vandalizing buildings is not protected free speech, but many of them complain about being “silenced” for political reasons.
LikeLike
I think you are absolutely correct. Hamas and Netanyahu need each other. Each of them benefits from the other’s intransigence.
It has been my experience that students are wonderful in that they feel deeply. So they react to reels showing the suffering of the Palestinians more than they react to Oct 7 because they see the on-going suffering of innocent Gaza residents on a daily basis. I think they are wrong to carry on their demonstrations the way they are because it plays into the narrative that progressives are just as violent as right-wing hate groups, even though the demonstrations are far different from lone wolf gunmen shooting up people to protect the United States.
LikeLike
Just wait until the Dem convention in Chicago this summer. They’ll get out of school for the summer and reconvene for another protest season. It’s the late 60’s/early 70’s all over again….complete with the Weathermen underground. We ain’t seen nothin’ yet!
LikeLike
Roy– I’m not worried about that particular narrative, or any other cockamamie Fox/OAN/ MAGA narrative. It also plays into the “academic elites” narrative, Gen Z are spoiled brats, BLM burnt up entire cities in the summer of 2020, et al boneheaded narratives. They are endlessly manufactured, and sell for a dime a dozen.
LikeLike
According to CNN about half of the people removed from the scene were not affiliated with the university. Mobs often become lawless, dangerous groups, particularly when there are violent instigators in the crowd. https://www.cnn.com/business/live-news/university-protests-palestine-04-30-24/h_135f8a215ab692d65079dab7d4802ac9
I share your concerns about the election, and I hope that the war and third party candidates do not derail Biden’s reelection.
LikeLike
The non-students are likely from the constellation of non-profits that agitate continuously for “decolonization,” “defunding,” “decarceration” (abolishing prisons), abolishing capitalism, etc. They block roads, they start and escalate confrontations with police, they distribute literature about how to break into buildings and “occupy” them. They have bullsh!t mission statements about how they “work towards integrated development in all spheres of life with special emphasis on weaker and vulnerable groups” and a lot of them get public money.
LikeLike
FLERP!
My fellow New Yorker . I perhaps have a more cynical view of the conflict then most. As much as I despise Netanyahu and the Religious Right in Israel and our own version of theocratic fascists at home. Perhaps wars don’t end till there are losers.
The first glimmer of hope I saw was described in a NY Times piece this weekend revealing that Palestinians in Gaza as much as they hate Israel are beginning to become hostile toward Hamas.
As Diane states the protestors by almost completely denying that Hamas is a terrorist organization and effectively running a weak terrorist state,(They are the Governing body in Gaza.) They are prolonging the inevitable.
Short of the Evangelical Right’s dream of the Rapture.there is no way that Palestine will or can ever stretch from the “River to the Sea” Which does not mean a two State solution should not be the goal . But both sides have to accept a two state solution and till the death and destruction in Gaza, there possibly still were more Israelis willing to do so than Palestinians. Or there would have been one in 2000 instead of a Second Intifada. Would have been one 2005-6 when Gaza was abandoned. Instead Hamas took power. Promising Palestine from the river to the Sea. Each rocket attack driving the Israeli Pubic further and further to the Right and into the hands of deplorable theocratic settlers.
But to assert that there is some sort of well funded left wing umbrella of “Non Profits ” behind every protest movement from abolishing prisons to decolonization smacks a bit of McCarthyism. Unless of course you mean the few hundred old time members of the SWP who can’t even get themselves arrested. IMHO.
They certainly are at all these demonstrations. But when you make that statement can you show the money trail and the linkages. Especially curious to see Public money.
LikeLike
Lisa Fithian (professor Occupy), a 63 yr old professional protestor/protest consultant is at Columbia
PhD student Johanna King-Slutzky (she’s into Marxist theory/poetry?) is also leading in the protests AND demanding food and water for students since they are paying for a meal plan while attending Columbia. SMH!!!
LikeLike
If anything, they’re emboldening division here at home.
LikeLike
It is a mischaracterization to label the student protests for BDS, ceasefire, and end to U.S. military aid to Israel as pro-Hamas or anti-Jewish. There are instances all of which are condemnable. However, that does not describe the movement. Questioning whether an ethnocentric state is the best way to ensure the democratic and human rights of Jews and Palestinians does not make the protests antisemitic. The students live in the U.S. and attend a university here, so they are legitimate targets of protest.
LikeLike
Are you anti-Zionist, Arthur?
LikeLike
Flerp, I am a Jew but not a Zionist. Here’s why: https://arthurhcamins.substack.com/p/why-i-am-a-jew-but-not-a-zionist
LikeLike
Free speech must be protected. Acts of intimidation, vandalism, and harassment of others are not. Seizing and vandalizing a campus building is not protected speech. Setting up living quarters on the campus is forbidden by most universities and is certainly not speech. Universities have an obligation to protect speech. They also have an obligation to maintain the campus as a safe place for students who want to take their final exams and get their degrees.
I don’t understand why you criticize Israel as an ethnocentric state. What do you call Saudi Arabia? And all the other Muslim states that are based on one religion? What do you call Hamas, which states clearly in its charter that the entirety of Israel and all the land “from the river to the sea” should be Islamic? Is that not ethnocentric?
Are you not aware that almost all the Jews living in majority Muslim nations fled or were expelled from those countries? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world
Most settled in Israel.
Are you aware that 1.7 million Muslims live in Israel? That’s about 18% of the population.
Is there a Muslim nation where 18% of the population is Jewish? Of course not.
There should be peace in the Middle East. All nations should live together and exchange goods, products, ideas, and technology.
Israel could help its neighbors.
But not when they insist on eliminating Israel.
And not with the Netanyahu regime.
Too many of the protestors know little or nothing about the history of the region.
If they did, they would pressure both sides to abandon violence and negotiate a two-state solution.
LikeLike
Of course, I condemn all manifestations of antisemitism, as well as Islamophobia. Well, I certainly don’t support or defend the many anti-democratic, autocratic, muslim centric nations in the U.S. Critique of Israel does not imply support for those nations and certainly not Hamas. I can’t speak for all of the students. I am certainly aware that many of the nations surrounding Israel are no friends to Jews now or in the past. However, as an American, my only leverage is my vote. The U.S. obviously has no leverage over Hamas, whose ideology and behavior I reject, but it does have substantial influence over Israel through diplomatic and military support. As I’ve written again and again, I am a proud Jew, but not a Zionist. Israel’s decades of denial of Palestinian rights, and the resentment it generates makes me feel less safe, not more as a Jew. It offends my sense of what it means to be a Jew. So, I and others are compelled to speak out and sometimes disrupt to call attention to what I regard as genocide. I’ve not advocated for a one- or two-state arrangement. I, and I think most of the student protesting, want a solution that ensures the rights of everyone. The resolution is up to the folks who live there to agree upon mutually without resort to oppression, war, or violence.
LikeLike
Arthur,
I am Jewish but non-religious. I am not a Zionist. I believe that the state of Israel has the right to exist. The core problem of the Middle East is that Israel’s right to exist has been challenged again and again. Now it seems that many of Israel’s neighbors are looking for cooperation. Saudi Arabia was days away from normalizing relations with Israel when Hamas attacked on October 7. At the time, some foreign policy experts assumed that the goal of the attack was to stop Saudi Arabia from going forward. Hamas succeeded but there are stories even now that the Saudis still plan to establish diplomatic relations with Israel and are deciding when to do it. They don’t want to help Biden or offend Trump so they may wait until after the election. You may have noticed that the Saudis, Jordan, and the Emirates shot down missiles and drones fired at Israel by Iran. There is a new world that is waiting to be born in the Middle East.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Diane,
So, what does it mean to not be a Zionist but support Israel’s right to exist? Israel was founded as a nation with special privileges for Jews. That’s the core of Zionism. Is the right to exist rationale biblical? An indigenous claim? Jewish safety above the rights of others? Or just facts on the ground? Israel’s founding meant denying the rights of the non-Jews who lived in Palestine, resulting in their expulsion either directly or out of fear. That violates my Jewish and human values. It that a wrong that needs to be addressed?
I also wonder what, in a world that respects the rights of all, a two state solution would look like. What is the resolution of all the illegal Israeli settlements on the West Bank? Would the two states respect free travel between them? Take down the separation wall and check points? What rights or reparations would Palestinians whose property in Israel was taken after 1948 have?
To be clear in asking these questions, I am not defending all the missed opportunities for justice and peace of the last 75 years. I am looking for a path to justice. Personally, I am encouraged by young people, who in greater numbers than since the Vietnam war, are raising their voices for justice. As I said, I denounce any expression of anti-Semitism or Islamophobia. I also denounce police violence meted out to peaceful demonstrators or attempts to restrict free speech by equating criticism of Israel or Zionism as hate speech against Jews.
Thanks,
Arthur
LikeLike
Arthur,
I’m not sure I can answer all your questions to your satisfaction. I am not a Zionist because I don’t want to live in Israel. However, I believe that Israel as a state has a right to exist. It has fought many wars for its survival, and after 75 years, its statehood should be unquestioned. Other states are newer than Israel and no one asks if they have a right to exist. Have you ever been to Israel? It is a first-world economy with advanced technology, science, and medicine. Its agriculture is also advanced and it exports fresh fruits and vegetables to Europe, the U.S. and elsewhere. It has made remarkable strides in desalinization technology, which enables it to create the fresh water needed for agriculture.
It is a Jewish state, the only one in the world. It is surrounded by Muslim states. There have always been Jews in the land that is now Israel. At its founding, many Muslims were expelled. Should Israel now pay them reparations? Even more Jews were expelled or pushed out of Muslim lands; most fled to Israel. Should Morocco, Iraq, Syria, and other Muslim nations pay them reparations? I don’t understand the logic of saying that everyone should back to where their ancestors or grandparents lived, 75, 100, or 200 years ago. Should we do that in the U.S. and return the land to the indigenous peoples? Should I return to Bessarabia, where my mother and her family fled from the Cossacks, or to Lomza, Poland, where my father’s family came from in the 19th century in search of religious freedom?
Is Israel the only nation in the world where people should go back to “where they came from?” Even those born in Israel?
As I have written here many times, I believe all the West Bank settlements should be dismantled.
As you may know, the Israelis left Gaza in 2005 and withdrew their settlements, causing great outcry from the settlers. But Ariel Sharon did it.
You may not know that a group of New Yorkers raised $13 million to buy and maintain the greenhouses that were left behind and gave them to the people of Gaza (my ex-husband was one of the donors). Within 24 hours, Hamas destroyed the greenhouses, which would have been a source of income and fresh food for the Gazan people.
I denounce hatred in all its forms. I have seen instances of anti-Senitism in the campus demonstrations. I am appalled to see students flying the flags of terrorist groups like Hamas and Hezbollah.
I have also denounced Netanyahu and his reckless disregard for civilian life. I hope he does not invade Rafah. I hope a settlement can be reached as soon as possible to stop the war.
I don’t understand why the students took up the Palestinian cause but ignore the carnage in Ukraine. Why are they not demonstrating against Putin? If there is a war in Europe, they will be called upon to fight it.
18% of Israel is Muslim. There are Arabs in the Knesset. Is there any Arab nation with a comparable proportion of Jews or with Jews in government roles?
I said I am not a Zionist because I have no interest in living in Israel. I am an American. But I am also a Jew, and behind the anti-Zionist rhetoric lies anti-Semitism.
I don’t care for the orthodox in any religion, including my own. I wish the extremists would leave the rest of us alone. And make no mistake: the pro-Palestinian protests benefit Trump. Remember that Trump moved the U.S. Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem to please his good buddy Netanyahu. The right wingers there love Trump.
LikeLike
Arthur,
I also support Ukraine’s right to exist, although I am not Ukrainian. I don’t question any state’s right to exist, other than North Korea, because it’s a giant prison camp.
LikeLiked by 1 person
The situations are not analogous. MLK and sit-in protestors were not terrorists. They did not commit atrocities. They did not pillage or rape. They acted in the spirit of nonviolence. Comparing MLK to Hamas is bizarre. Also repellent. Israel is not going away.
From your comments, Dienne, I gather that your prefer the goal of Hamas: the elimination of the state of Israel. I don’t agree with you. Neither do Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and the Emirates, all of which intercepted Iranian drones and missiles aimed at Israel.
LikeLike
I think she was comparing MLK to the campus protesters, not to Hamas.
LikeLike
She was comparing MLK’s nonviolent dissent to the dissent of students who defend Hamas, which seeks the elimination of the state of Israel.
To compare a movement based on the principles of Gandhi to a movement that champions the terrorists of Hamas is ridiculous. Or just plain dumb.
LikeLike
FLERP, so was I.
LikeLike
These protests, at least the one at Columbia (the only one I’ve paid much attention to), are a master class in how to alienate your audience. Instead of calling for a cease fire—a policy that, while debatable among reasonable people, is clearly connected to the carnage happening in Gaza—we get a protest that calls for aggressively anti-Zionism. If you have second thoughts about whether it would be a good idea to no longer have a Jewish state, you’re on the outside looking in. One of the people who isn’t allowed in the encampment because you are a Zionist. You accuse all people who disagree with you of supporting “genocide.” You smash windows, occupy a building, and then send a spokesperson out to demand that the university allow food and water to be brought in so you can stay there indefinitely. At each stage, reducing the audience further. Really a master class in rhetorical stupidity.
LikeLike
Excuse grammar
LikeLike
Well said, FLERP! I accuse the Columbia protestors of chutzpah.
LikeLike
The wall of separation between belief and state quacks like a wall of separation between beliefs and biases. Beyond absolutes (fire burns) what belief isn’t cultivated with a pretense of ethnic or cultural superiority? What institution doesn’t rest on established biases? Invoke authority, present your argument with enough “jargon” and “minutia” to illustrate you are “one who knows” and beliefs will still rest on biases. Biases don’t advance peace.
LikeLike
Also, who are you to define what “the movement” is? President of the Movement? Does the Movement have a board of directors and a position statement I can peruse? The movement is whoever shows up and yells the loudest.
If I can make a suggestion for the Movement: get some new slogans. Perhaps using the same slogans that Hamas uses doesn’t help make the case that the Movement does not sympathize with Hamas. Just a thought.
LikeLike
This was directed to Arthur. I’m really incompetent this morning.
LikeLike
Well said, Diane!
LikeLike
The self-appointed leaders of the CCNY encampment were not students and their demands (free tuition, no arms shipments to Israel, etc) had nothing to do with the college), all the wonderful graduation activities are on hold, trampling on the lives of students is unconscionable… evicting and arresting was proper, and, the college can return to normalcy.
LikeLike
One aspect you’ve left out of this excellent summary, Diane, is the role of AIPAC’s money flowing through our political system. AIPAC, like some school privatizers (DFER comes to mind), makes contributions to both Democrats and Republicans in order to insure their hold on our elected officials.
In the current cycle, AIPAC is targeting progressives such as Ocasio-Cortez and Jamaal Bowman; they are funding more conservative candidates in primary elections. Of course, they’ve long been opposed to Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar, who are overwhelming supported by their constituents.
The Republicans may not have kicked off the protests, but they certainly have taken advantage of them, not that folks like Elise Stefanik need more encouragement to assail higher education as “woke” and students as “out of control”. The campus protests have been repurposed to demonstrate that America under Biden is a chaotic criminal hellscape, with the GOP calling for deportations of protestors. Trump claims Charlottesville was peanuts compared to campus protests and that occupying Hamilton Hall is the same as the insurrection of January 6 and also that Biden has to “do something.” The latest claims he made during a court break in his trial on 34 charges.
Thanks to the Roberts Court for the Citizens United decision!
LikeLike
So true. Conservatives will use student protests and the border to support their narrative of “lawlessness” under Biden. They will exploit the chaos.
LikeLike
Of course they will, retired teacher.
The chaos on campus will be exploited by the right, who hate higher education and consider it elitist (even when they have the diplomas, like Josh Hawley, Ted
Cruz, DeSantis, and Steve Bannon). Like Trump, they love the uneducated.
LikeLike
Christine,
You are right. Money in politics corrupts when there are no limits.
It corrupts when it comes from AIPAC. Or from Sheldon Adelson, a Jewish casino owner in Las Vegas, who was Trump’s single biggest donor (he died and his Israeli wife is waiting to see what Trump does or says before contributing).
LikeLike
Thank you, Diane.
The billionaires are unfettered in what they can spend to promote their agendas. The rest of us, not so much.
That ain’t democracy.
LikeLike
Watching the news at noon, I notice that various Tennessee colleges are also seeing protests. It made me wonder what the pipeline for information was for the students who felt the need to protest. I would assume that ideas are spread through social media, but it would be interesting to understand how students are coming to understand this situation.
One aspect of the problem is that the ability of Israel to dominate the fray in a military sense, which always produces great human suffering. In an immediate sense, therefore, the winner in a war looks vicious at first glance, for war is amoral at best. I fear the Netanyahu approach to the response to Oct 7 may actually exacerbate the problem he hopes to solve. In history, genocide becomes history. Winning the peace may be more difficult than hardliners imagine. The suggestion that Palestine should work for the “river to the sea,” the end of Israel is quixotic or evil. The rejection of the Two state solution is likewise fraught.
I do not expect the students understand the nuances of this issue. They are most likely paying attention only to the misery in Gaza and reacting with sympathy, which is nearsighted but understandable. I do not feel very optimistic about a good solution to this war.
LikeLike
It’s another example of what can happen if history is ignored.
Bobbi
>
LikeLike
Thank you for putting into words what I have been unable to verbalize myself. I am sickened by the violence being perpetrated against Palestinian women and children, who are often used as human shields, and had no voice in the election of Hamas as a Palestinian political leader. I am also gutted to my very core by the atrocities committed by Hamas on October 7, the footage of which has not been as widely distributed, out of respect for the dead and their families. This means that Palestinian suffering is the most visible, and the atrocities of October 7 can be characterized as a “false narrative.” As a mother and a woman, I understand the unimaginable grief and anger that lead Israel to choose to raze Gaza to the ground. Thanks be to God that I am not in that position, because I cannot say that I would not make the same decision. However, the people who suffer the most are not the ones who orchestrated October 7. Those people are deep underground, sheltering behind human shields. There is no moral high ground here. Just vengeance exchanged for more vengeance, which is the story of the region that has gone on for time immemorial. Hamas is not a freedom-fighting group of oppressed rebels. They are monsters. They use their own people as shields and ammunition. They have always been intent on the eradication of the Jewish state. This is not new, but somehow it’s gotten lost in whatever messaging has gone around to support these protests. Ironically, many of the American and European protestors would be subject to execution by Sharia law… which is what Hamas espouses. Not just execution, but execution in the most degrading, tortuous way possible. That’s what intifada means (complete moral death), which is why it’s wild to me that these students are out there chanting it like some freedom slogan. Along with “from the river to the sea”- we’re protesting genocide… by supporting more genocide??? Supporting these people should never be the goal. On the flip side, in seeking to eradicate a monster, Israel has fallen victim to the classic Nietzche warning… they’ve become a monster, too.
LikeLiked by 1 person
exactly
LikeLike
Well done, Michelle Vawter. This is the only post so far in the comment thread that expresses each of my reactions and concerns about this conflict.
I agree that the student protests seem to be full of people who do not grasp the complexities of the history, or the concepts/ nomenclature they’re abusing, or the present situation, or the piece from 2005-2023. They do not grasp that being “anti-Zionist” to the general American public means one is fine with wiping the state of Israel off the map. I grant you the general public misinterprets the term, but one needs to be aware of how the public hears what you’re promoting. To promote “intifada” is equally boneheaded, and exactly why the public hears such calls as “pro-Hamas.”
There is another problem with American “ears”: a large chunk, perhaps the majority of Americans (?) equate “Palestinian” with “Hamas” because, ‘hey, they voted for them.’ One has to ask why that happened– take into consideration the history of settlements (& the everyday violence that comes with occupation), & the growing number of Israeli “outposts” [illegal settlements that today = 70% of the # of legal settlements]– & the ebbing of Fatah clout [& recent death of Arafat]. Consider also that the vote was close [44.45% Hamas to 41.43% Fatah]. But my point being: to the uninformed-of-the-nuances US public, pro-Palestinian = pro-Hamas.
LikeLike
This is what happens when extremists have the ability to take power and force their extreme views on everyone else. Netanyahu’s government is controlled by messianic nuts. Hamas is a tool of Iran’s theocratic Mullah’s, still fighting a religious war with the rest of humanity. Look at our own Congress. If you believe God is on your side, anything is possible. However you believe in deities, don’t blame the gods, blame the misuse of the faith in those gods.
LikeLike
Thank you.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Thank you for this post, Diane. The war is actually between the most radical, extreme, violent elements of both Israelis & Palestinians. There are legitimate issues on both sides, but the war is the bad guys vs. the bad guys.
LikeLike
Agree, Lenny.
LikeLike
Lenny Rothbart and Diane: I have often wondered HOW in the world anything could get better in the Middle East . . . if there were a two-state solution but where both sides thought the other side should be erased from the earth–even as stated in their formal political doctrine. CBK
LikeLike
That’s actually a big research project, Joel, and I’ve been meaning to dig into it. There are so many orgs it’s hard to keep them straight. One is the People’s Forum, with its headquarters in my neighborhood in Midtown West, funded partly by a $16 million grant from, of all places, the charitable investments arm of Goldman Sachs. I’m not sure if they get public money (that’s part of the research project). Most of their money comes from a guy named Neville Roy Singham, who works with the Chinese government to coordinate propaganda all over the world. It sounds crazy but it’s a real thing.
Other groups off the top of my head include Within Our Lifetime, Decolonize This Place, the Wespac Foundation (a Westchester-based group), the Party for Socialism & Liberation, the Sunrise Movement, and dozens, maybe a hundred or more, others. This is an ongoing project of identifying these groups and then digging into their finances.
The “outside agitators” line may sound paranoid but I believe they absolutely are a big driving force in all these protests, and a big part of the explanation of how the anti-Zionist/anti-colonialist rhetoric is so finely honed. It’s what these people do for a living.
LikeLike
This was meant for Joel. I don’t know what’s the matter with me today. Can’t put a comment in the right place.
LikeLike
FLERP!For the second time today the NYCPSP length comment I was typing disappeared. Consider yourself lucky . A very simple response is the Singham network is far beyond what most on the left would be comfortable associating with. I also suspect that their numbers are far smaller than you suspect. It is as the Times implies a foriegn Influence operation . Well we all have our spiesThis from the Times article says it all. There are not many further left. ” But Howie Hawkins, the 2020 Green Party presidential nominee, said he had soured on Code Pink and others in the Singham network that presented themselves as pro-labor but supported governments that suppressed workers. “To defend that, or excuse that, really pushes them outside what the left ought to be,” he said.”What the greater influence might be,is the number of Muslim Students and Non Students taking part in the Demonstrations. The vast majority not Palestinian but feeling persecuted. The Israeli Right Wing Rhetoric and actions do not help.
LikeLike
Here’s a link to a story about Neville Roy Singham
LikeLike
Good Lord.
LikeLike
And here’s a story about the People’s Forum and the Columbia protests. (Trigger warning: it’s from the Free Beacon.) I’d love to see a list of what non-students were arrested in Hamilton Hall.
https://freebeacon.com/campus/anti-israel-group-encouraged-columbia-protesters-to-recreate-the-summer-of-2020-hours-before-students-stormed-a-building/
LikeLike
Let’s start with the fact that Goldman Sachs the brokerage does not give a penny they created a vehicle for investors to funnel money to causes of all types, Left Right non Political. Would I be too simplistic if I said a Go Fund Me Page is not a contribution from Zuckerberg.
I do so love Right Wing Media. No doubt there are non students involved.
LikeLike
As much as I don’t like what I’ve seen at these protests, this bill looks terrible.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/29/antisemitism-bill-clears-house-rules-panel-following-partisan-feud-00155045
LikeLike
Agreed
LikeLike
Suddenly, the GOP opposes anti-Semitism while hating immigrants and lots of others. No thanks. Pandering for votes.
LikeLike
We have all the speech restrictions we need. We don’t need more.
LikeLike
Late to read this one in depth but well worth it.
I just happened upon something last night about Northern Ireland in the 1970s and the violence there. Of course, different era and way different circumstances.
But it makes me think….what might bring about an inflection point in the overall trajectory of the destructive times we’re living in now?
The defeat of Trumpism seems to be key -both for the U.S. and the world.
P.S. while I’m writing, thanks again to Diane and company for highlighting New York State Governor Hochul’s destructive proposal to suddenly slash foundation aid to schools statewide. The worst of the plan was deferred -for now. Though Albany still found a way to cause program cuts for the coming year at the rural school were I’m subbing, and other small districts.
Meanwhile, government money is flying pell-mell elsewhere, including billions of federal dollars to send advanced weapons systems to every corner of the planet. And, still children in public schools get shortchanged.
Make that, really, children worldwide getting caught in the adults’ crossfire, whatever that may be.
Despite all our so-called “artificial intelligence” these days, some things never change.
LikeLike
Diane: I hesitate to comment about this oh-so-complex and historical situation which I have known about (forever), but not studied enough to enable an informed comment.
Having said that, I have often wondered about the relationship between Hamas and the Palestinian people and, in a different way, on the Israeli side, between the “extreme” leaders and most of the Israeli people. While I think it would be really naive to think some people really cannot be THAT brutal (studying Stalin and Hitler cured me of that kind of naivete), I also wonder why, after so much time, those who are reasonably temperate do not emerge towards political leadership from that more temperate core–especially where it is so obvious that Hamas leadership cares nothing for the people of Gaza, aka: “their own people.”
If it really is a fight between the powerful extremes of both factions, and if there actually are (what I would call) moderates who really do want to form a peaceful relationship in and for the world, where are those moderates?
Are there really moderates on either “side,” and, if so, why don’t they have a concerted and (potentially at least) politically powerful voice among their people? And as time is a key factor in purveying change, is anyone pushing for the education of their children away from the vendetta mindset? for the long-term view?
The analogy in the United States is where kids grow up in a racist household in “red” states, then go to a public school to get educated about racism, sexism, and every other ism under the sun, and then go home to where their families get “waked up” about what “woke” can do and move their children to a tribal-minded church school . . . and the cycle repeats itself.
OR, back to the Middle East, are most really still in a tribal mindset about the “other,” chasing one provocation after another with hate and revenge as their prime motivators and being sure to pass it on to their children?
Also, I admire the college students for their obvious rejection of the violence and their sensitivity to the horrors that are going on in Gaza and against the Israelis; I also think (as Diane said earlier) It seems to me that they are poorly informed about the history and complexity of the issues they are involved in.
Diane . . . I really appreciate your providing this forum. I always learn so much from it. CBK
LikeLike
CBK,
My guess is that most Israelis and Palestinians want to live in peace, with no fear of bombs or terrorism. But a few terrorists at the margin can blow up chances for peace. Rabin and Arafat made a deal that created a path to peace. Rabin was assassinated by an Israeli extremist. Any Muslim terrorist can set peace negotiations back by blowing up a pizza parlor or marketplace and killing people. That kind of terrorism turned the Israeli public to demand a strong leader. Neither of the extremes want peace. Netanyahu disgraced himself because he promised security. On his watch, Israel suffered the deadliest day in its history. He will be held accountable. He should have resigned. The sad irony of Oct 7 is that the people who lived in the kibbutzim were mostly peaceniks, people dedicated to peace.
LikeLike
I could not have said this better. For that matter, I could not have approached saying this as well. I 100% agree with the premise.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Diane: Thanks. Also, I really liked what Michelle V. wrote above. CBK
LikeLike
Reporters have been looking into the funding of the groups active in organizing these protests. Looks like two of the big ones are the Tides Foundation (a kind of clearing house for “social justice” donations, with big donors including Gates Foundation and Soros), a Pritzker-founded foundation, and the Rockefeller Fund.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/05/pro-palestinian-protests-columbia-university-funding-donors-00156135
LikeLike