Hillary Clinton wrote in The Atlantic about why Hamas must go. It is a barrier to any future peace, she writes. It is a terrorist organization that has consistently blocked a two-state solution. It shamelessly uses the Palestinians as human shields. As the Washington Post recently documented, the massacre of October 7 was intended by Hamas to provoke an overwhelming Israeli military attack, which was sure to turn public opinion to the Gazans and eclipse any memory of the savage murders, rapes, and brutality of October 7. And for maximum impact, the Hamas terrorists wore body cams to document their atrocities.
She wrote:
One morning in November 2012, I knocked on the door of President Barack Obama’s suite in the Raffles Hotel in Phnom Penh, Cambodia, so early that he was barely out of bed. I had an urgent question that could not wait for the president to finish his morning coffee: Should we try to broker a cease-fire in Gaza? Then, like now, the extreme Islamist terror group Hamas had sparked a crisis by indiscriminately attacking Israeli civilians. Israel had responded with air strikes, and a ground invasion of Gaza appeared imminent.
The president and I debated whether I should leave Asia, fly to the Middle East, and try to negotiate a halt to the fighting before the situation escalated further. The reason to go was clear: Stopping the violence would save lives and prevent the conflict from spiraling into a wider regional war.
The reasons not to go were more nuanced but also compelling. President Obama and I were both wary of suggesting that Israel did not have a right and a responsibility to defend itself against terrorists. If Hamas did not face consequences for its attacks, it would be emboldened to carry out more. We also knew Hamas had a history of breaking agreements and could not be trusted. For that matter, neither side seemed ready to pull back from the brink. Diplomacy is all about leverage and timing. If I tried and failed to negotiate a cease-fire, it would reduce America’s credibility in the region and lower the likelihood that we could reengage successfully later.
In the end, we decided the risks were worth it. I headed to the region and began intense shuttle diplomacy among Israel, Egypt, and the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank. Late into the night in Cairo, I went line by line through a proposal I’d worked out with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in Jerusalem. The Egyptians were on the phone with Hamas leaders in Gaza. Finally, I was able to announce that all parties had agreed to a truce.
On the long plane ride home, I asked my aide Jake Sullivan, who is now President Joe Biden’s national security adviser, if Hamas was abiding by the agreement we’d just struck. So far, he told me, the answer was yes. I was relieved that we’d prevented further bloodshed, but I worried that all we’d really managed to do was put a lid on a simmering cauldron that would likely boil over again in the future.
Unfortunately, that fear proved correct. In 2014, Hamas violated the cease-fire and started another war by abducting Israeli hostages and launching rocket attacks against civilians. Israel responded forcefully, but Hamas remained in control of Gaza. The terrorists re-armed, and the pattern repeated itself in 2021, with more civilians killed. This all culminated in the horrific massacre of Israeli civilians last month, the worst mass murder of Jews since the Holocaust.
This history suggests three insights for the current crisis and the future of this complex and volatile region. First, October 7 made clear that this bloody cycle must end and that Hamas cannot be allowed to once again retrench, re-arm, and launch new attacks—while continuing to use people in Gaza as expendable human shields. Second, a full cease-fire that leaves Hamas in power would be a mistake. For now, pursuing more limited humanitarian pauses that allow aid to get in and civilians and hostages to get out is a wiser course. Third, Israel’s long policy of containment has failed—it needs a new strategy and new leadership.
For me, Israel and Gaza are not just names on a map. I have grieved with Israeli families whose loved ones were abducted or killed in terrorist attacks. I have held the hands of the wounded in their hospital beds. In Jerusalem, I visited a bombed-out pizzeria and will never forget it.
I have also been to Gaza. I have talked with Palestinians who have suffered greatly from the conflicts of the past decades and dream of peace and a state of their own. Before Hamas seized power, I met women using microloans from the United States to start new businesses and become breadwinners for their families, including a dressmaker who—because she was finally able to buy a sewing machine—could send her two daughters to school. My decades of experience in the region taught me that Palestinian and Israeli parents may say different prayers at worship but they share the same hopes for their kids—just like Americans, just like parents everywhere.
That is why I am convinced Hamas must go. On October 7, these terrorists killed babies, raped women, and kidnapped innocent civilians. They continue to hold more than 200 hostages. They have proved again and again that they will not abide by cease-fires, will sabotage any efforts to forge a lasting peace, and will never stop attacking Israel.
Hamas does not speak for the Palestinian people. Hamas deliberately places military installations in and below hospitals and refugee camps because it is trying to maximize, not minimize, the impact on Palestinian civilians for its own propaganda purposes. The humanitarian crisis in Gaza is heartbreaking—and every death means more blood on Hamas’s hands.
So the Biden administration is correct not to seek a full cease-fire at this moment, which would give Hamas a chance to re-arm and perpetuate the cycle of violence. Hamas would claim that it had won and it would remain a key part of Iran’s so-called axis of resistance.
Cease-fires freeze conflicts rather than resolve them. In 1999, the Serbian dictator Slobodan Milošević called for a cease-fire in Kosovo, where NATO air strikes were trying to stop his brutal campaign of ethnic cleansing. It was a cynical attempt to preserve Serbia’s control of Kosovo, and the Clinton administration continued bombing until Milošević’s forces withdrew. Today, global allies of Russian President Vladimir Putin call for a cease-fire in Ukraine because they know freezing the conflict will leave Russia in control of large swaths of Ukrainian territory that it seized illegally. Putin could reinforce his troops and then resume the conflict at a time of his choosing.
In 2012, freezing the conflict in Gaza was an outcome we and the Israelis were willing to accept. But Israel’s policy since 2009 of containing rather than destroying Hamas has failed. A cease-fire now that restored the pre–October 7 status quo ante would leave the people of Gaza living in a besieged enclave under the domination of terrorists and leave Israelis vulnerable to continued attacks. It would also consign hundreds of hostages to continued captivity.
Cease-fires can make it possible to pursue negotiations aimed at achieving a lasting peace, but only when the timing and balance of forces are right. Bosnia in the 1990s saw 34 failed cease-fires before the Clinton administration’s military intervention prompted all sides to stop fighting and finally negotiate a peace agreement. It is possible that if Israel dismantles Hamas’s infrastructure and military capacity and demonstrates that terrorism is a dead end, a new peace process could begin in the Middle East. But a cease-fire that leaves Hamas in power and eager to strike Israel will make this harder, if not impossible. For decades, Hamas has undermined every serious attempt at peace by launching new attacks, including the October 7 massacre that seems to have been designed, at least in part, to disrupt progress toward normalization between Israel and Saudi Arabia. (Those negotiations also aimed to bring important benefits for Palestinians.)
By contrast, the humanitarian pauses advocated by the Biden administration and tentatively accepted by the Israelis can save lives without rewarding Hamas. There is precedent: During previous wars in Gaza, Israel and Hamas agreed to a number of pauses so that relief could get into the area. Recent conflicts in Yemen and Sudan have also undergone brief humanitarian pauses. Whether for hours or days, breaks in the fighting can provide safety to aid workers and refugees. They could also help facilitate hostage negotiations, which is an urgent priority right now.
Rejecting a premature cease-fire does not mean defending all of Israel’s tactics, nor does it lessen Israel’s responsibility to comply with the laws of war. Minimizing civilian casualties is legally and morally necessary. It is also a strategic imperative. Israel’s long-term security depends on its achieving peaceful coexistence with neighbors who are prepared to accept its existence and its need for security. The disaster of October 7 has discredited the theory that Israel can contain Hamas, ignore the legitimate aspirations of the Palestinian people, and freeze Israeli control over Palestinians forever.
Going forward, Israel needs a new strategy and new leadership. Instead of the current ultra-right-wing government, it will need a government of national unity that’s rooted in the center of Israeli politics and can make the hard choices ahead. At home, it will have to reaffirm Israeli democracy after a tumultuous period. In Gaza, it should resist the urge to reoccupy the territory after the war, accept an internationally mandated interim administration for governing the Strip, and support regional efforts to reform and revive the Palestinian Authority so it has the credibility and the means to reassume control of Gaza. In the West Bank, it must clamp down on the violence perpetrated by extremist Israeli settlers and stop building new settlements that make it harder to imagine a future Palestinian state. Ultimately, the only way to ensure Israel’s future as a secure, democratic, Jewish state is by achieving two states for two peoples. And in the region, Israel should resume serious negotiations with Saudi Arabia and others to normalize relations and build a broad coalition to counter Iran.
For now, Israel should focus on freeing the hostages, increasing humanitarian aid, protecting civilians, and ensuring that Hamas terrorists can no longer murder families, abduct children, exploit civilians as human shields, or start new wars. But when the guns fall silent, the hard work of peace building must begin. There is no other choice.

Diane, as I’ve said before, history will judge, and it will not be kind to your side. You can call the Palestinians terrorists all you want, but Nelson Mandela was once a “terrorist” too, so be careful.
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No where did Diane call the Palestinians terrorists. Stop putting words in her mouth. Yes, history will judge. Let’s hope you are not writing it.
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Thanks for making this point.
I do not understand how this person condones Putin laying waste to Ukraine cities and killing many civilians but objects to Israel’s military response to a terrorist attack.
If Ukraine had sent armed militants into Russia and and murdered a thousand unarmed thousand civilians, taking a few hundred hostage, dienne77 would have a lot more justification for her support for Putin responding. But Ukraine didn’t do that, and yet she still supports Putin violently responding.
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I will. Hamas is a terrorist organization. It’s members are terrorists.
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cx: Its, ofc
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Thank you, speduktr. I pray for the day when Palestinians and Israelis can live in peace and shared prosperity. The Palestinians want to live in peace, and they should. Hamas is a terrorist organization that is sworn to eradicate Israel and all Jews. Peace will never come from hate. Post-Netanyahu, I hope that the Israeli people are wise enough to choose leaders dedicated to finding a just solution that builds good relations and a lasting peace between Israelis and Palestinians.
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Hamas wants to expel all the Jews from our homeland. The thought occurs to me, Dienne, that, assuming you’re living in the U.S., since you agree with Hamas that “occupiers” should be expelled en masse by any means necessary, including mass murder, gang rape, torture and disfigurement, terrorist bombings and indiscriminate rocket fire, and all of that against civilians, including against the Muslim population in West Bank, and since the United States killed Native Americans to establish this, your country, you should leave.
You should be willing to put your money where your mouth is and move to Russia where you can freely oppress Jews and other minorities like people of the LGBT community, or to China where you can openly oppress the Uyghers and Taiwan, or to Iran where you can be openly oppressed for being a woman, etc. Or better yet, you could go all out for Hamas and their agenda by inviting Islamic State to come over to your occupier home and rape and torture you before you move away or die trying.
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Hamas is a terrorist organization, commiting heinous murders, trying to ignite a larger war. They are not to be seen as all the Palestinian people. You made that substitution, not she. Efforts by Israel to provide aid to Palestine was intercepted by Hamas repeatedly. And what do you mean by “your side”? She is reposting a thoughtful statement from Hilary Clinton, calling for changes designed to save lives and provide a path to peace going forward. Lots of Jews oppose Netanyahu, want to ensure the survival of both peoples. I do not at all like your use of the term, “your side”, which smacks of requiring a black or white declaration of allegiance. And that is the kindest interpretation I can put on that term.
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Well said, Ms. Walsh!
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Dienne,
Did you watch Jake Tapper on CNN last night? He described an incident on October 7 in which an Israeli woman was gang raped. After several men raped her, the next one cut off one of her breasts and tossed it to another of the Hamas terrorists. They played with it as if it were a tennis ball. The next terrorist raped her and while he was doing it, shot her in the head.
I don’t recall Mandela doing anything of the sort.
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I am by no means anything close to well-versed in this history, and I think Mandela was in prison for most of this group’s history, but:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMkhonto_we_Sizwe
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Comparing Mandela to Hamas is an insult to Nelson Mandela.
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This essay shows again that Hillary Clinton has always favored the judicious use of military force when that is necessary to achieve a desirable goal. She has never been a Code Pink type who supposedly opposes all wars, when in reality Code Pink is just a far Left anti-American, anti-Israel group that justifies violence in the service of its extreme left-wing objectives.
Unfortunately, I have to disagree with one sentence she wrote: “Hamas does not speak for the Palestinian people.” Hamas does not represent all Palestinians, but all evidence shows that a large majority of them support Hamas attacks on Israelis and share the Hamas goal of obliterating Israel from the world map. That’s the problem: even if Israel abandons the West Bank settlements and offers a two state solution with peaceful relations, Hamas and all radical Islamists will not agree to that arrangement. They want Islamic theocracy in that region. A final point: it is mind-boggling that left-wing feminist groups in the U.S. and Europe will not condemn Hamas for using rape as a war tactic, in addition to subjugating Palestinian women.
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Well said, Jack.
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I second that.
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Jack, your points are well made. I too am puzzled that feminist groups have been silent about Hamas’ use of rape as a tactic. Rape is a war crime.
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I have no doubts that Hillary would have been one of the top-rated presidents by historians.
“Modern U.S. presidents such as Barack Obama and Ronald Reagan rank near the top of the best leaders in American history, while Donald Trump is closer to the bottom, according to the latest survey of presidential historians.
“The five highest rated presidents, according to the C-SPAN survey, are Abraham Lincoln, George Washington, Franklin D. Roosevelt, Theodore Roosevelt and Dwight D. Eisenhower. The bottom five include William Henry Harrison, Donald Trump, Franklin Pierce, Andrew Johnson and James Buchanan.”
Republican Presidents before Nixon and Reagan were more like the Democratic Presidents after Reagan.
After Reagan, the Republican Party continued to sink into corruption and fascism, worshiping and obeying the rich and powerful as if they are emperors and kings, and the GOP is still falling into what seems to be a bottomless abyss.
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I can’t believe this is happening. Right now, I’m glad Bernie Sanders is not the president; I disagree with Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez; I disagree with Congressman Bowman; I’m upset with Congresswoman Talaib; I’m enthusiastically supportive of neoliberal President Obama’s vice president, President Biden; and I agree wholeheartedly with neoliberal Hillary Clinton. How things change.
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Welcome to the party.
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I am impressed with Bernie Sanders. I have thought his responses to this crisis have been quite good. Even AOC seems to be trying to be thoughtful – refraining from the kind of ugly anti-Jewish/anti-Israel rhetoric we see from the Putin supporting hypocrites here.
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Thank you. That helps.
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I am sorry to say that the Hamas terrorism has unleashed a tidal wave of anti-Semitism in the U.S. and Europe, both from the far right and the far left.
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Hamas, TikTok, and X.
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The situation will not improve until everyone has hope for a better future. The Netanyahu approach to peace has demonstrably failed. The Hamas approach is to not bring peace but a sword. The situation will not improve until one of two outcomes is reached: the end of one or another of the two sides or the satisfaction of both. To me, the first is unthinkable. There must be a way to find leadership for the second
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Roy, I agree.
Netanyahu must go and he will as soon as there is an election. His policies were a disaster.
I hope that there will be a two-state solution in which both Israelis and Palestinians can enjoy self-rule.
I hope for a future of peace and prosperity for the people of the Middle East, a future without terrorism.
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Yet another massive rally in my neighborhood yesterday chock full of the usual disturbing signs and chants. “From the River to the Sea” is now de rigeur. Saw one “Israel did 9/11” sign, which summed up the mood well. “By Any Means Necessary.” The absurd “Queers for Palestine” signs. Etc.
I come across one of these every day lately. The demonstrators are central casting from the “Occupy” and “Decolonize” groups whose politics seem to span from anarchist to Marxist. They are aggressive, masked, quick to damage or deface public property. There is heavy overlap with what people referred to as “Antifa” in the summer of 2020.
These groups also go hand in glove with the DSA–follow the NYC DSA Twitter account to get insight into that group’s mindset. AOC should follow Jamal Bowman’s lead and end her association with that group. With any luck, the loss of the DSA’s biggest mascot would accelerate its death.
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Here’s a student protest trying to overwhelm campus police in Ann Arbor to force their way into the UM President’s office. Apparently the President of the University of Michigan is a real impediment to peace in the Middle East.
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnewsvideo/s/sOqQpbnNoH
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It’s so disheartening to see this stuff. That many students at good universities are idiots?
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Why use a reddit source, that likely links to a right wing and/or untrustworthy news source?
I decided to see how the Michigan Daily, a very credible college newspaper, covered it.
There are more than 50,000 students at U Michigan. Maybe 300 “community members” (which is unlikely to mean they were all students) protested:
“The protest was organized by Students Allied for Freedom and Equality, with about 200 community members moving into the Alexander G. Ruthven Building for a sit-in that lasted over three hours.
…….The protest was peaceful and there were no reports of violence from protestors. Police attempted to push protestors away from the building before they rushed inside and prevented anyone else from entering after the initial group of protestors was inside.
According to Overton, the majority of the protesters began leaving the building after the police issued a dispersal warning at 7:30 p.m.. At that time, law enforcement announced that anyone who had not left the building within 10 minutes would be arrested.”
Eventually 40 people in the building were arrested – which meant they were processed at the scene and released – they weren’t brought to any jail.
99.4% of the students didn’t even protest and an even smaller percentage even tried to enter the building and an even smaller percentage actually remained to be arrested.
I don’t agree with these protesters, but I don’t believe it helps any side when there is an attempt to rile up anger rather than inform. You see that among the protesters but also among their “elder” critics.
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Aie yie yie. These students involved in this protest are clueless idiots, and any defense of them is itself indefensible.
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These students are rallying in support of people who just want destruction, not any sort of negotiated settlement.
https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/november-17-2023?utm_source=profile&utm_medium=reader2
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Enough with the support of support of murderers and terrorists.
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Bob,
I agree with everything Heather Cox Richardson says in that link.
I don’t see that these students are rallying in support of Hamas. They are rallying in support of the Palestinians in Gaza. I abhor their use of the word “genocide” which is entirely overused by the left when talking about this conflict.
They are absolutely wrong, but they aren’t pro-terrorists. There are some that are, and I agree they should be called out. I didn’t hear the typical Israel shouldn’t exist rhetoric here.
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Well, you and I are just going to have to disagree about this, NYC. What a surprise. And I suggest you listen more carefully to those links, which include chants in support of Hamas.
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Bob,
I think we agree about most things regarding Israel and about Heather Cox Richardson.
I think maybe we disagree about how easy it is to fall into the trap of politicizing this which is what the enemies of peace want us to do.
I don’t think most students protesting the aggressive Israeli response are pro-Hamas, although certainly the folks who are pro-Hamas (and pro-Russian, and anti-Semitic) want to claim them for that side. There are some who are, but I didn’t happen to see them at that UMich protest.
I agree with Biden and today’s speech.
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Here’s another scene on UM’s campus. From the student chants, it appears that the University President has been committing genocide. Huge story if true!
https://x.com/bgonthescene/status/1725719751471587496?s=46&t=vV_4bJ7GuABaalzetJofQA
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Santa is committing genocide?!?!?!?!
LOL
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They remind me of the far right “parents” protesting against “woke” public schools or vaccines or gays or trans, or the evil people trying to take away their assault weapons.
Unfortunately, those right wing folks spewing nonsense seem to completely control the Republican party and the government of many states like Florida. I just wish the people (correctly) concerned about this quite small protest at U. of Mich were just as concerned about similarly fact-free groups who have far more power right now.
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It’s horrifying that students on our campuses and Democratic Socialists should rally in support of these murderers. Why do you feel the need to castigate people for being horrified and angry about these idiotic protests? I’m with Flerp. They are infuriating.
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Because they aren’t rallying in support of Hamas!
When I see that, I am with you, and I am disgusted. It may very well be happening on other campuses. But I didn’t see that this particular protest was to support Hamas. It’s to support divestment from Israel, another movement I abhor, by the way, but wasn’t connected with supporting terrorists.
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Go back and listen to them again. The protestors shout in support of Hamas, by name.
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Bob, you may be right — I listened again and tried to hear pro-Hamas shouting and couldn’t, but it was obviously hard to hear all that was being said.
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Thanks, NYC
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If people are interested in what the DSA is about, here is the Twitter account of their NYC chapter. I recommend following it, so people can get it straight from the horse’s mouth.
https://x.com/nycdsa
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If anyone thinks I’m “politicizing” this, please add the following, in the New Republic, a letter written by the secretary of the DSA, which has been highlighted on the DSA’s Twitter feed.
https://newrepublic.com/article/176969/democratic-socialists-america-struggle-free-palestine
“What would you have done during the Civil Rights Movement?” As a growing left movement comes to see history as something we must shape here and now, questions comparing historical moments to today have become a common refrain. When future generations look back to today, one of theirs will doubtless be: What did you do to stop what is, as one prominent Holocaust scholar put it, the “textbook case of genocide” in Palestine?
For members of Democratic Socialists of America, the answer is clear: anything and everything we can. We feel deeply that “there is only one viable future. We either all live together, or we all die together,” as activist and attorney Noura Erakat said recently. But for a handful of now-former members who have spent the last month announcing their resignations from the largest socialist organization in the country with pieces like “Out of Loyalty to Democratic Socialism: Why We Are Leaving DSA,” which ran in The New Republic last week, the question does not appear to be worth asking.
Instead, each article focuses mainly on the wording of select tweets and statements, frequently parroting misleading claims that have already been comprehensively addressed. At a time when so many are taking serious risks to stand on the right side of history, it’s disappointing to see a few outliers take the bait. But for the rest of our 80,000 members, what’s more important is that we use this opportunity to push public focus back on what matters above all else: our organizing to stop a genocide.
It started quickly. As chapters immediately sprung into action organizing and supporting rallies across the country, members also worked nationally to make the most of our mass base and connections to Congress through our No Money for Massacre phone banks, which have already made nearly 250,000 calls. These phone banks, often attended by 100 people at a time, have turned mass support into mass action by bringing an unprecedented level of constituent calls pushing reps to sign on to the cease-fire resolution. And equally important, they’ve provided a foundation of constituent calls in support of members like Representative Rashida Tlaib, which enables our already leading electeds to take even further political risks—most notably Tlaib openly calling out President Biden for supporting a genocide, resulting in a rare and reprehensible censure vote.
Physically, DSA chapters everywhere are anchoring every type of action imaginable. Metro DC DSA collaborated with a large coalition of Palestine solidarity groups led by American Muslims for Palestine to organize a massive protest in D.C. last month with tens of thousands of people, and DSA members across the country were proud to participate in the largest Palestine mobilization ever in D.C. on November 4. NYC-DSA co-led its own largest-ever rally with Adalah Justice Project, Jewish Voice for Peace, and other organizations where over 150 people were arrested (including socialist elected officials), successfully forcing the media there to finally talk about what is actually happening: a fight to stop a genocide. All across the country, DSA members have organized rallies and sit-ins, tabled in our communities, organized students, bird-dogged elected officials into supporting a cease-fire, blocked military cargo ships from port, protested at the Democratic National Committee headquarters, and more—often at substantial personal risk.
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The phrase”From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be free” means that the state of Israel will be eliminated—and all the land will belong to the Palestinians. It is a call for the erasure of nine million Israelis.
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I believe you’re correct, but sadly, this has already been muddled, much as the slogan “defund the police” was muddled in the summer of 2020. It’s disgusting and disturbing.
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FLERP!,
I agree it’s muddled, but while it might be unintentional on your part, I feel as if you are trying to conflate (sometimes misguided) students who support an immediate ceasefire in Gaza by Israel with those calling for Israel’s annihilation. And I was concerned that during the BLM protests your posts seemed to conflate the BLM protestors calling for an end to the aggressive policing tactics that excused violence toward Black folks with those calling for the annihilation of the police and violent action.
There is a difference, and too often people try to discredit an entire movement by pointing toward their worst actors (whose real concern for those goals is often suspect.)
When I have time I will read your New Republic link about DSA. It’s certainly possible that a group can be totally taken over by people who are spouting racist or anti-Semitic or violent rhetoric. But as in BLM, sometimes – with the glaring exception of groups of white conservatives – the violent actions of the few aren’t used to discredit the entire movement.
If that were the case, the media would be treating the entire Republican Party as a violent pro-terrorist organization, because there is far more anecdotal evidence from both their speech and actions of their willingness to act out violently toward people who disagree with them – and in their case the ugly violent rhetoric is coming from some of their most powerful and prominent leaders who have certainly not been marginalized but have been condoned and embraced by the so-called “mainstream” Republican party. I have not seen nearly that kind of embrace of the violent rhetoric in the DSA or BDS movement or BLM. Nor in the U Mich pro-Palestinian links you posted above.
But I am certainly wary of anyone who believes the complicated situation in Israel and the middle east is simply Israel’s bad actions and the justifiable response by those victimized by Israel that Hamas represents. And I have certainly seen some posts with that view on here that are quite offensive.
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^^^my 3rd paragraph is muddled so re-writing:
“When I have time I will read your New Republic link about DSA. It’s certainly possible that a group can be totally taken over by people who are spouting racist or anti-Semitic or violent rhetoric. But as in BLM, I have also seen times when the violent actions or rhetoric of a few are used to discredit an entire movement – with one exception: Somehow groups comprised of white conservatives aren’t subject to this kind of discrediting, where the violent actions and rhetoric of some aren’t used to discredit the entire movement.
If that were the case, the media would be treating the entire Republican Party as a violent pro-terrorist organization…..”
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If I had come across large groups of conservative white men shouting the things and displaying some of the images I’ve seen in the past month in my neighborhood, I would be horrified. If I had seen them spring into action to organize anti-Zionist rallies mere hours from first news of the October 7 slaughter, I would be horrified.
This is not about giving white men a pass.
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My point is that the events of January 6 were an actual attack! Not just words of violence, but violent actions by an angry mov! Something the Republican Party apparently now believes was fine and dandy and aside from the brief moment, apparently condones.
And yet we don’t say the entire Republican Party is a violent organization.
But FLERP!, you seem to have the misfortune of living in the center of protests with folks spewing violent rhetoric as I know you felt this during the BLM protests as well. I am sorry about that. I also live in NYC but I guess I am lucky enough to be sheltered from that so far. I can understand that if you are in your home and constantly assaulted by hearing shouts with violent rhetoric, you would feel as you do. Violence is not the answer. But even Biden (and some Israelis) are asking for a pause. I don’t think the kind of reactions that Netanyahu and the far right have to peaceful protests like the one at U. Michigan are helpful, but certainly people shouting hateful rhetoric of violence should be called out.
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Please stop justifying these protests in solidarity with murderous terrorists. That’s just not OK. Please. Stop. Now.
Don’t write another 8-paragraph defense of your defense of these people. Just. Stop.
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Bob,
Please stop mischaracterizing what I am saying and please stop mischaracterizing all rallies in support of Palestinians as being “in solidarity with murderous terrorists”. It’s just not OK. Please. Just. Stop. As someone who is extremely pro-Israel, I believe it does more harm than good. It’s what the pro-Israel right wing Republicans do.
I am absolutely aware of the anti-Semitism at some protests and I am not afraid of calling out anti-Semitic attacks excused as simply “opposing Israel”. I appreciate when others here do that, too, as you do. Thank you, Bob.
Even though I thought I knew quite a bit about Israel and the issues most discussed, I’ve been reading/listening to some interesting Israeli perspectives, recommended by friends and relatives whose opinions I trust. Two good ones:
Sam Harris’ podcast from Nov. 16 – #341 – Gaza & Global Order: A Conversation with Yuval Noah Harari. Listening to Harari was enlightening. Harari is the author of a book called “Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind” which I confess I had never heard of but now plan to read.
The “both siderism” of Ezra Klein often annoys me. However, his Nov. 10 NYT podcast conversation with Yossi Klein Halevi about the issues was also quite good (since it was Yossi Klein Halevi doing the talking).
By the way, the one thing that mystifies me is why more people who purport to care about Palestinians are not utterly outraged about Hamas’ presence in civilian areas, especially after launching a major attack on Israeli civilian targets. Military targets are easy to hit in Israel as they are obvious – Hamas did attack military targets on October 7 but they ALSO intentionally traveled to civilian homes and murdered civilians in cold blood. Then they retreated to a place where they were shielded by civilians. And they fought off attacks by Israelis from places where they were shielded by civilians without their leaders making sure the civilian population left to avoid them being caught in the crossfire. I find it odd that the condemnation of civilian deaths in Palestine is laid exclusively on the shoulders of Israel and not also on their governing body, Hamas.
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