Two conservative law professors, experts in constitutional law, maintain in a law review article that Trump is barred from running for president again because he participated in an insurrection. The article created a media sensation.
William Baude of the University of Chicago and Michael Stokes Paulsen of the University of St. Thomas in Minneapolis, both members of the Federalist Society, wrote an article in the University of Pennsylvania Law Review in which they maintain that Trump violated Section Three of the Fourteenth Amendment by engaging in an effort to overthrow the Constitution.
Two prominent conservative law professors have concluded that Donald J. Trump is ineligible to be president under a provision of the Constitution that bars people who have engaged in an insurrection from holding government office. The professors are active members of the Federalist Society, the conservative legal group, and proponents of originalism, the method of interpretation that seeks to determine the Constitution’s original meaning.
The professors — William Baude of the University of Chicago and Michael Stokes Paulsen of the University of St. Thomas — studied the question for more than a year and detailed their findings in a long articleto be published next year in The University of Pennsylvania Law Review.
“When we started out, neither of us was sure what the answer was,” Professor Baude said. “People were talking about this provision of the Constitution. We thought: ‘We’re constitutional scholars, and this is an important constitutional question. We ought to figure out what’s really going on here.’ And the more we dug into it, the more we realized that we had something to add.”
He summarized the article’s conclusion: “Donald Trump cannot be president — cannot run for president, cannot become president, cannot hold office — unless two-thirds of Congress decides to grant him amnesty for his conduct on Jan. 6.”
Section Three of the Fourteenth Amendment says:
No Person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice- President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Why the sudden interest in Trump’s illegal actions on the part of these “Conservative” law professors?
Could it be that the problem is not with Trumps actions per se but what it means: that if Trump is their nominee, he is going to lose bigly?
“When we started out, neither of us was sure what the answer was,” Professor Baude said. “People were talking about this provision of the Constitution. We thought: ‘We’re constitutional scholars, “
I other words, we are supposed to just accept their excuse that they had never read the Fourteenth Amendment before just recently.
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It’s actually funny to see these folks panicking after the sudden realization that their man DeSantis is a loser and that “No Virginia, there is no DeSantisclaus”
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The most hilarious part is that these two self proclaimed “Constitutional experts” recognize how convenient (suspect) their (supposed) “epiphany” will seem and hence feel the need to rationalize it by claiming they have just recently studied the implications of the 14th amendment for Trump.
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I’ll take it. Liz Cheney was right from the gitgo. The scandal in all this is the fact that Republican electeds who were in the Capitol, running and hiding, still insist nothing happened that day. And we still have idiots saying that the whole deal was cooked up by the FBI, despite the fact that 1,000 + of the insurrectionists are in jail. Anything to exonerate Trump, the lead insurrectionist.
Historians will write with puzzlement about the Republican party’s complete moral collapse.
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You’re right. It’s about the pivot away from a losing candidate to one that can win and will serve right wing Koch/Catholic interests.
The story was picked up by media even though the article won’t be published until next year.
Speaking of – Bernie Kerik is back in the news (Georgia reporting). He received honorary degrees from two religious colleges (and, Michigan State University).
The guy behind the sex cult crime at Sarah Lawrence is referenced in the Kerik Wikipedia entry.
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“In other words, we are supposed to just accept their excuse that they had never read the Fourteenth Amendment before just recently”.
Lol…but of course.
“We set out to see if massive cloud formations could possibly obscure the sun. When we started out…”
My dog could tell you that Donald Trump planned and incited an insurrection. And I don’t have a dog.
🐶
Don’t know if Donnie’s dead in the water on Election Day, but if I was a true Republican who valued the stability of our democratic republic, I’d grit my teeth and cast my vote for Biden.
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Now I am not a lawyer but who determines whether someone has engaged in an insurrection or a seditious conspiracy. It would seem that would have to be a Jury to make that determination. Not to mention which statute he is charged with.
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If Jan 6 was not a violent insurrection, I don’t know what is.
Add to that the fake elector conspiracy and you have an attempt to subvert the election.
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I don’t disagree and it was obvious. But has Trump been charged with insurrection or seditious conspiracy
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I don’t disagree and it was obvious. But has Trump been charged with insurrection or seditious conspiracy
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“ I don’t disagree and it was obvious. But has Trump been charged with insurrection or seditious conspiracy”
You know the answer to that one, I’m sure. Smart move; avoiding that charge. Pragmatic. Hopefully the lesser charges stick.
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Yeah, there’s definitely a big underlying factual question that this analysis hinges on.
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I am not a lawyer, but I do play one on the internet (among other things like poet)
And in my illegal opinion, the person who has any of Trumps lawyers for a lawyer is s DAM fool.
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Nice
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In order for Trump to be excluded from office, the DOJ still has to prove that Trump did participate in an insurrection. Most of us on the left accept this as fact, but it still must be proven in a court of law. Who knows what kind of strategic games his high priced legal team will play?
In either case both Don the Con and Ron the Con are bad for democracy and equal opportunity. Both plan to expand the powers of the executive branch while they hobble the rest of federal agencies, especially the IRS. They will continue more tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans and corporations. They will pull out of Ukraine and diminish our standing to the rest of the world. They will do even less than Joe Biden to help the middle class and poor. They will ignore our climate disasters while they continue oil drilling in our national parks and lands. They will aid and abet the continuing privatization of our common goods including our social safety nets and public schools, and they will crush unions at every opportunity. They will continue scapegoating and dividing us politically, economically and socially.
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Math is not my forté, but by my calculations, tRump would need 67 votes in the Senate &, if the total number of House seats remains the same, he would need 290 votes there.
I highly doubt tRump would get 2/3s of either house, let alone both of them, as they stand currently, so the best time to vote on this would be now –BEFORE elections. I think sombody there needs to get the ball rolling and start addressing this matter right away!
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Most of us heard what tRump said at the Ellipse on Jan 6th, watched what his followers did in response and heard some admit that he incited them. A lot of us also saw the evidence compiled by the Jan 6th Committee, which was provided primarily by GOP witnesses.
And yet. some people don’t believe their “lieing eyes and ears” and want to wait until tRump is convicted before any action is taken. This means the DC trial has got to be speedy. Based on what that judge said this week, if tRump continues to violate the court order with his big mouth, that’s most likely to result in a sooner trial. I don’t think tRump will shut up, but I’m still praying real hard that he continues to demonstrate his utter lack of impulse control…
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Trump has no impulse control. No one can silence him. He considers it to be his First Amendment right to insult the judge and the prosecutor and to reveal evidence. He simply can’t rein in his mouth. Let’s see what the judge does.
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Hurry, slam the door shut.
The horses have bolted…
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Why would members of the Federalist Society suddenly care about the 14th? Do they realize that Trump’s support might just as easily assembled around a Maoist sound-alike? Are they afraid of what might come of their country if we establish the precedent of attacking congress with a mob if we are dissatisfied with the outcome?
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Politico 12-9-2022, a story about FedSoc-
“Critics call it theocratic and authoritarian, young conservatives call it an exciting new legal theory”
What the right wing wants, old and young alike, is a patriarchy because they believe it is the common good to deny rights to women and gay people. And, I’d speculate 95+ percent are racist.
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Judge Lynn Adelman- “It took almost a hundred years to undo the harm caused by the post-Reconstruction court. We can only hope that it will not take that long to repair the damage caused by the Roberts Court.”
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Diane and others, how was Trump the insurrectionist? Why didn’t Pelosi and the mayor want 10,000-20,000 national guard when Trump mentioned it. Why is the j6 committee throwing out information? Why was the fbi involved like Roy Epps pushing people through? Nobody was killed and that was violent? Burning down seattle and other parts of the country after Fentanol Floyd died and killing hundreds of cops not worse?
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/j6-committee-failed-to-preserve-records-has-no-data-on-capitol-hill-security-failures-gop-charges
Trump is going to run. Why are you all so scared? He lost last election, right?
Everyone is so petrified they will try anything to indict him its sickening.
We are about to go into a depression, interst rates for homes is near 8% the world os going to hell and its always trump.
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Trump never ordered any troops on Jan. 6. If he did, why weren’t they on hand to stop his followers from ransacking the Capitol?
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Jack Smith didn’t charge Trump for insurrection. While his line of counts on one big charge (conspiracy) leaves room for debate, it’s crystal clear that Trump attempted to overturn the election result by sending fake electors with forged documents in 7 key states. That’s totally different from other remaining charges and already debunked Russiagate story.
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While Jack Smith did not charge Trump with sedition, it’s clear to anyone with a half-ounce of sense that Trump is, in fact, a seditionist. And a serial lair. And a racist. And a misogynist. And a traitor.
Carl Bernstein of Watergate fame, put it like this:
“it’s very important to understand the progression from Richard Nixon’s criminality to Donald Trump’s criminality. They are both criminal presidents of the United States…But then Trump went further. He is the first seditious president in our history. How did that happen? He decided he would not abide by the election, the duly constituted, free election of Joe Biden as the president of the United States, and staged a coup to keep Biden from taking office.”
So, guess what that makes ANYone still supporting Trump?
Not a trick question.
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78 felony indictments and counting. More expected, perhaps this week, from Georgia.
All through his past, this criminal conman has been able to bluff his way through. It was sufficient to be a blowhard.
But not now. Not in courtrooms with determined, skilled prosecutors with all the evidence they need in hand.
Sorry to say, Josh, but your God-man is going down. Haaaa! On a fashion note, there is no tan in a can in prison, so there won’t be an issue with the orange on orange being too matchy matchy.
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The whataboutism tactic is used by Fox and their viewers as a common means of deflection from the subject at hand. It’s so effective that it has become one of Russia’s favorite propaganda tricks. The degree of cognitive dissonance is painfully obvious. Whataboutism not only soothes the brain of this affliction, but it is an attempt to obfuscate the actual facts of the discussion. That is its purpose and Fox knows it.
People didn’t die during the insurrection? Sure they did.https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/11/us/who-died-in-capitol-building-attack.html
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I think this will go nowhere, unfortunately.
Look at the inconsistency of the language of the 14th Amendment: “No Person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice- President.” “Senator” “Representative” and “elector of President” are spelled out and specific.
Now look for anything of like clarity about a “President.” “Hold any office”? “Previously taken an oath”? “As an officer of the US”? Why didn’t they simply say “President” if that’s what they intended?? This looks like an obvious argument for the insurrectionists to raise.
AND, it took the two specialist professors over a year to come to their conclusion! (“When we started out, neither of us was sure what the answer was.”)
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Each of the two men has a different motivation?
Jonathan Turley and Dershowitz carved out their niches.
One of the two article authors appears to be conservatism’s in-house contrarian. The position can be a sweet spot where a political lawyer gets noticed. He gets access to right wing funders with deep pockets and, he has less competition in garnering national media attention.
There are lots of smart lawyers who are Democrats and a shortage of those who are Republican, e.g. Kavanaugh and Thomas.
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This piece in The NY Times was quite the revelation for me: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/14/opinion/trump-indictment-lawyers.html
I did not realize that membership in the ABA was only 1/5 of all lawyers and that partisans organizations such as the Federalist Society have taken its place. This would explain why there has been so little accountability over the 2020 election shenanigans. I have wondered why so many were held to account over Watergate, while only the perpetrators of violence on 1/6 have faced consequences. Somehow we have to get non-partisan institutions back in the regulation of political behavior. This has been the critical failure of our time where private interests have neutered government oversight. If I was a Democrat in Congress I would immediately bring the amnesty vote to the floor knowing two thirds is out of reach. That would put an enforcement mechanism in place. I wish a prominent national representative would take the charge for service and term limits for all federal employees involved with governance and oversight, elected or appointed. This would neutralize the concern that lifetime bureaucrats could hold sway over short time elected officials. The key question for reasonable people is how do we establish political practices that assure effective democratic governance. This certainly cannot happen as long as we allow partisan enterprise to run the show.
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So well said, Paul. I didn’t know about this either.
Couple term limits with campaign finance regulations that level the playing field and we’ve got the beginnings of some serious and well needed change.
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Republicans in some states proposed that enforcement powers be taken away from the ABA. The idea came about after Project 65 began a campaign aimed at disbarments.
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War makes for strange bedfellows.
Hopefully, Aileen Cannon may have picked this up on her radar. He’s not your friend, Aileen.
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This is absolutely correct! I’m not a lawyer, but studied law–with an A I’m very proud of– in Constitutional Law.
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To voice your support of the 14th Amendment on the matter at hand, please sign this MoveOn Petition which is entitled, “Disqualify Donald Trump from Holding Public Office, Under the Constitution’s 14th Amendment” and is aimed “TO: Secretaries of State, state election officials, and members of congress” https://sign.moveon.org/petitions/disqualify-donald-trump-from-holding-public-office-under-the-constitution-s-14th-amendment
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Since Trump has been indicted four times this year, we can HOPE that at least one of them puts him in prison. Any regular person who had committed such crimes would definitely be serving time by now. Nobody is above the law, but Trump keeps working to do just that.
READ: Trump indicted in Georgia
08/14/23
Former President Trump faces new charges in his fourth indictment this year, this time in Georgia, where prosecutors say he participated in a plot to overturn the state’s 2020 election results to stay in power.
The co-conspirators include Trump lawyers Rudy Giuliani, John Eastman, Ken Chesebro and Jeffrey Clark. Former Trump chief of staff Mark Meadows is also charged.
The charges range from making false statements and impersonating a public officer to racketeering, a charge usually reserved for organized crime…
https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4152370-read-trump-indictment-georgia/
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“ Nobody is above the law, but Trump keeps working to do just that.”
People with money and connections (and dirt on those connections) use both to stay above the law (I’m sure you you know that). It sucks but it’s a reality. His mentor, Roy Cohn, was indicted 4 times and sailed free on all.
But I believe Mr Trump went too far this time. He once said he could shoot someone in broad daylight on Fifth Avenue (he can’t afford Park Avenue) and not lose a voter. Well…he’s got broad daylight blood on his hands at the US Capitol on January 6. And he’s losing voters because of it. Waaaay too obvious.
And I think he’s about to lose his freedom, too. This ain’t 5th Avenue, Don.
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And I wish they’d included Graham in the indictment.
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