I kept seeing references in the news toa documentary called “Shiny Happy People,” so I turned on Amazon Prime and watched four episodes at one sitting. It’s a fascinating look inside the world of Christian fundamentalism. The documentary focuses on the Duggar family, which achieved fame and fortune because they had 19 children. They live in Arkansas.
The Duggar family had its own TV program on TLC. Television cameras recorded every event in the family. They were the perfect, wholesome American family. Until they weren’t.
This is a good summary of the four episodes. You can see that the family was very attractive. Beautiful girls. Handsome boys. All the children did their chores. And all were home-schooled.
The Duggars belonged to a fundamentalist organization (a cult) called the Institute in Basic Life Principles. It was run by an evangelical preacher who taught a strict and patriarchal way of life. God reigns over man. Man rules over his wife. The parents rule over the children. Good parents administer corporal punishment.
The leader of IBLP knew how every family should act, but he was unmarried.
The father of the Duggar family was elected to the legislature.
It was the perfect family until word got out that the oldest son had molested some of his sisters. Eventually, you learn that the leader of the IBLP was accused of sexually assaulting a number of the attractive young women he chose as his assistants.
There are many interviews with thoughtful people, including some of the adult Duggar children, who reflect on being brainwashed.
We need to know who these Christian nationalists are because they are taking a major role in reshaping our nation and its politics. Nothing is said about national politics but it’s clear that the fundamentalists are a rock-solid part of the Republican Party.
To the extent they gain power, this will be a less tolerant, less open-minded society, indifferent to knowledge and hostile to science.
I hope you watch it.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
Speaking of hostile to science, just sent this article to you, Diane.
https://open.substack.com/pub/yourlocalepidemiologist/p/harassment-against-scientists-is?r=ottd6&utm_medium=ios&utm_campaign=post
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It was the perfect family until word got out that the oldest son had molested some of his sisters. Eventually, you learn that the leader of the IBLP was accused of sexually assaulting a number of the attractive young women he chose as his assistants.”
What a surprise.
The “Holier than Thou” are often (if not always) “Holeyer than ‘Wow!’ “
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https://pridesource.com/article/41413/
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https://www.cnn.com/2009/US/01/29/lkl.ted.haggard/
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View at Medium.com
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My wife has been watching the series and told me about it. Here is a great read about the gist of the organization. Creeeeeeeeeeepy. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-12144835/What-happened-Bill-Gothard-leader-Duggars-church-sexual-assault-allegations.html
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Don’t have time. Would rather ponder the nature of the gunk that accumulates in my shower drain.
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Same general phenomenon
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Let’s compare the Duggar’s political impact to Leonard Leo’s. How pervasive is the influence of the Duggar’s church, in numbers? Geographically, how widespread is the Church’s reach?
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You make a very good point.
Duggars are essentially meaningless to everyone except in their own small group.
Leo impacts the entire country yet few even have heard of him.
The American mainstream media tells us whom to focus on.
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The American Media
Keep them focused “over there”
Then they’ll miss the crime that’s “here”
Give them weird, bizarre affair
Then they’ll act like headlight deer
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Thank you, Poet. I needed a bit of a lift.
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I know that this will probably open up a can of worms, but this was in the NYTimes yesterday:https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/28/opinion/religion-affiliation-community.html
Churches left community behind decades ago when TV audience size and mega churches, in almost every denomination, became the priority. This has intensified our pandemic of loneliness currently ravaging our country. All of our masters, from money to possessions, have been circumvented through the very human desire for control. I recently attended my 45th high school reunion where we talked a great deal about the nature of our loose organizations compared to hyper controlled sports leagues many of us found ourselves navigating with our children, i.e. pick-up games then vs. travel ball today. Our current crises in our institutions can be attributed to our insistence on centralization of one perspective over all else. This exists both in the extremes of the left, over regulation, and the right, control of individual choice. At the end of WWII we were a country of around 1.5 billion people. Now we are over 330 billion. Our attempts to manage such growth has been largely technological, ie. social media, high stakes testing, cyber metrics of all kinds. What we have neglected is the importance of proximity as a means to project social contentment. Perhaps some of the fear over A.I. is an acknowledgment that our desire for control overwhelms our need for one another. Quite the struggle and perhaps existential.
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Paul Bonner No can of worms here. For me, your note, coupled with Linda’s idea of the church’s “reach” helped a needed distinction come clear:
The Church’s reach needs to be distinguished into (a) its religious reach, understood as foundational to all human living including our view of what always lies beyond us and that we do not know but may have reasonable beliefs about, and by whatever name; and (b) its political reach, which is not always bad and goes to the complex history where church and state have slowly become formally distinct over time, but which can be degenerative of democratic principles.
In our situation in the United States, many who claim Catholicism and Christianity, but cannot stand a confrontation with actual scripture, actually practice and expect to have an errant and arrogant, unelected control over the “imposition” of (their distorted version of) Christian values. It’s a perverse over-reach plain and simple when you join oligarchs to buy Congresspeople, to gaslight parishioners, and abuse people’s trust.
There can be (must be?) a tenuous but right distinction and relationship between church and state to be had, but this is not it. Jefferson was right about the law and the courts, and it is why public education in democracies is so terribly important.
On the other hand, I and probably Paul Bonner could talk all day about person’s and culture’s religious foundations (which includes rejection of religion) . . . another time, another context . . . but here is where a can of worms may become opened:
An example of the power of a person’s faith manifest rightly in a political context, was Mike Pence who apparently took his oath of office more seriously than his support of Donald Trump the man.
My guess is that it wasn’t Trump or the office as much as his oath . . . to God . . . and the long-term relationship of his faith to both his word and his way of life . . . that made him avoid pulling that Trump trigger (regardless of what anyone thinks of the depth of his intellect, history, or other foibles).
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I’m afraid I got the numbers wrong..We were a country of 150 million and are now 330 million. I need to edit better.
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Glad you corrected those numbers, Paul. I was starting to believe we grossly underestimated the horniness of returning soldiers and welcoming lovers.
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Will keep response to CBK short. That kind of theoretical, clean separation works in theory but falls about after 10 seconds of considering its practice. To claim that the “religious reach” has no impact on the “political reach” or vice versa is not even worth the time it takes to read this comment.
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GregB Short: I didn’t say there was no influence between political and religious arenas of life. The THEORY that underpins my note refers to the need for FIRST differentiation of institutions, THEN finding a right relationship between what has been rightly differentiated. . . as well as with other spheres of living and fundamental institutions that emerge in human cultures, e.g., education and family.
Democracy (as in our own Constitution) provides for the differentiation of “church and state” as institutions. That differentiation, thankfully, provides the very real possibility for, but not the guarantee of, thoughtful people working within the question of how church and state, education and family can be dynamically and peacefully related as structured-in historical movements.
In my view, it beats all this extremism. (And even shorter, are you carrying around an anti-theoretical bias? Just asking and please remember, a question is not an accusation and may remain rhetorical if you wish.) CBK
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To clarify for readers who may be (but, probably aren’t) interested- CBK conflates what I write with what Bob writes.
Bob’s very knowledgeable about religion so, in that sense, it’s an honor for me.
I know some info about how the Catholic Church crafts its false image as liberal, the right wing political agenda it funds, the response of tribalists when they hear what they don’t want to hear, the right wing players who publicly own that religion influences their actions, jurists like those on SCOTUS who claim religion doesn’t influence their verdicts, the political apparatuses like the almost 50 state Catholic Conferences, the groups that influence whitewashing the Church, like its inquisition and social Darwinism in Ireland during the great hunger, statistics that show Republican voting patterns by white Catholics, what Jefferson said about religion and despots, the taxpayers’ creation of the Church as the nation’s 3rd largest employer, etc.
I will continue to leave to Bob, the explanations and history concerning religious beliefs. I will continue to focus on the right wing politics and the pro-school choice efforts of the Church. And, tribalists will continue to conflate the two just as Mary Jo McConahay identified in an interview. Some tribalists will resort to name calling and pettiness. Others won’t. Some of them will simmer in anger. Others will minimize their role or the political influence.
CBK believes that I posted criticism of her, relative to “kowtowing.” It’s puzzling for the following reason- is that a characteristic that a fellow commenter would assess and then, have a level of interest in, that would result in writing about it?
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I binged it as well. Don’t forget that Josh Duggar is cooling his heels in federal prison behind a child pornography charge. These are some righteous people, eh?
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Josh was supposed to be their “Golden Boy” bringing Christian Nationalism to the big stage in DC….until it was found out that he molested his sisters. He got a reprieve, but then got caught with the kiddie porn. 19 arrows in the Quiver(the movement has been called Quiver-full for many years now) and they shot the crooked arrow into the spotlight. How soon we forgot once they disappeared from the TV screen. I watched that show 1-2 times and then decided that collecting rocks or watching mold grow was a better use of my time.
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Watching this now. Yikes.
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YIKES!!!! Just viewed it.
Omg & HOLY COW. Talk about DERANGED.
This is a good case AGAINST “Home Schooling.”
Many use “church” dogma when home schooling their kids…SCARY, SACRY!
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If you haven’t already, I recommend that you watch “The Family” on Netflix about the creators of the President’s Prayer Breakfast and its nefarious cult like impact on our government. Christian Nationalism is not less than an existential threat.
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Thanks!
The far right’s last gasp effort to create a “Nation of dummies, who don’t question authority.”
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Rhetorically, are you the same Paul Bonner who thanked CBK, in another thread, for her comment calling me closed minded, ignorant, hateful, anti-Catholic, etc. because I report on information like the Catholic church’s expenditure of $3.5 mil on a recent Kansas anti-abortion ballot issue?
I understand the generic Christian nationalism label is P.C. and convenient. You state, the overarching umbrella of Christian nationalism, poses a threat. Which sects have an extensive apparatus in almost every state that engages in furthering the right wing agenda?
Which sect spends the church’s money on activities like quashing rights for people who are gay? Which sect takes credit for school choice legislation which creates the opportunity to undermine democracy? When the nation becomes fascist, which sects will be carrying the Bible? What were the sects in Germany and Italy during the period of Hitler and Mussolini?
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No, I thanked her for the struggle those of us who are believers have when engaging with those who take an adverse position against those who consider themselves on a faith journey separate from the the populist view on faith so prevalent today. It was not meant to be a personal slight toward you. I do agree with you that there are those in the Catholic Church who seem hellbent on a return to medieval institutional practice and authority. However, I also know many in the Catholic Church, probably the majority, who do not feel that way. I am an Episcopalian and we have had our own contemporary struggle with right wing schism over homosexual priests, women in the priest hood, and changing our prayer book. No religion has a monopoly on so called fundamentalism. My faith asks me to have hope. Some struggle to control how that hope is promoted.
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Rhetorically, are the Catholic bishops conservative? Do they choose the political causes that the church spends its money on? Pew reported 63% of White Catholics who attend church regularly voted for trump in 2020.
Here’s an analogy. When people take a “journey” like you describe, their money funds tour guides. The tour guides decide to spend the money to take other people’s rights away. The tour guides tell politicians that they can generate votes from those on the journey. That influences the politician. The outcome of the process is robbing other people of their rights.
Who is more responsible, the
tour guide or the person funding them?
Paul, why don’t you just own the political impact you indirectly have instead of trying to package/rationalize it in a way that makes you comfortable? One thing we can likely agree upon, if the men who translated the Bible had written Jesus limited his disciples to those who were women or those who were gay, the political picture from the past until today and society would look very different.
Is there a translation and
example for, “control how
hope is promoted?”
What does that mean?
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My comments are not a package or rationalization. It is my constant search for understanding. It is a faith journey. It means that I am an imperfection seeking the good. It is a belief system beyond my human centric experience. I am not sure why you are bothered by this. There are 700 billion universes on this planet. Why is that a problem?
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(Forgive my caps.) I AM NOT BOTHERED BY RELIGION. I AM BOTHERED BY THE RIGHT WING POLITICAL ACTIVITIES FINANCED AND CARRIED OUT BY THE CHURCH BECAUSE THEY TAKE AWAY FROM OTHERS, THEIR LIBERTY AND RIGHTS. IF THE CHURCH WAS NOT IN THE PUBLIC SQUARE ON THE SIDE OF THE GOP, THE SUPPORT GIVEN TO IT WOULD NOT PROVOKE ME TO COMMENT.
Bob and I are not the one and same person. While the conflation is flattering to me because he is very knowledgeable (and, while I may agree with him), my focus is not his.
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As am I. I simply do not allow right wing propaganda to influence my beliefs.
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Never mind, Paul, don’t answer the questions I posed. But, I’d appreciate an answer to a question that no other religious guy at the blog has been willing to answer.
Would you like your church as well if it taught that men are lesser because Jesus chose women as his disciples?
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Do not watch if you are offended by foul language. The guy is talking about Matt Gaetz, who is himself an obscenity.
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That was great! Do MTG and Boebert indeed! And everyone else. After watching this, I realize we’re living with Butthead and Barney being taken seriously as policymakers.
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GregB and Bob (About Boehlert and MTG, etc.) Just in case you didn’t catch the quip from Lynn Cheney, she remarked that the people keep electing idiots.
I wanted to lay on the floor laughing at that MAJOR truth being said so very clearly. CBK
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I prefer the R.E.M. song version of “Shiny Happy People” which was inspired by a propaganda poster about China. The song is about a repressive society in which everything appears great on the surface, but behind the scenes is a nightmare. It sounds like an appropriate title for the show.
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I love that this is the “Furry Happy Monsters” muppets version video. The R.E.M. guys are really getting into it. I am very impressed that the bass guy is able to keep a straight face (most of the time). And when I remember that there are a whole bunch of live people, perhaps on their knees, moving all around the musicians just below the frame, R.E.M.’s performance is especially impressive.
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That’s Mike Mills on bass. He does vocals on one of my favorite REM songs:
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lol!!! Meanwhile 98% of you re brainwashed sheep watching cnn (worst network ever, fox too) msdnc, You were all brainwashed regarding trumpo, impeachments, russia
Bob, maxine waters is sooo good, ilhan omar omg shes amazing, AOC (loser baretnder), Feinstein, alive sinfe dinosaurs like mitch mcconnell.
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I’m guessing people interact with piteous smiles or stares to the ground when they encounter you in public. Stand or sit at a corner of a liberal city with a box or hat. I’m guessing you’d do pretty well. But seriously, it’s not fun anymore and I’ll leave you alone now. You really need help. Seriously, seek some counseling. You are a potential danger to yourself and the people around you.
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Last comment to Paul. I used Animal Farm for my 12th grade government class in the late 80s. Interesting how great works of art can always find relevance and new meanings. But the new ones remain connected to the old and the original.
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It is a simple and obvious message so cleverly done. Animal Farm had little historic context for me when I read it in middle school. It’s great to go back and dive in more deeply. I did take some literary license however, as I have applied it to general social behavior. I hope I don’t offend.
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But it wasn’t brainwashing that turned me into an evil Social Democrat, or Socialist, Josh, who supports stuff like Medicare for All. It was the George-Soros-funded WOKE nanochip inserted in me when I got the nefarious Covid “vaccine” designed by Fauci and CRT in the basement dungeons of Hunter Biden and Hilary Clinton’s Washington Pizza Parlor Pedo Palace. This chip causes me to alternate between saying “Baaaaaa” and “Trump bad, Omar good.” Can’t help myself. Please share widely on the boards you go to for “news.” Pray for me.
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You might share this under the heading “Socialist admits it all!”
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cx: into me
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“Four legs good, two legs better”
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You hear the voice, too, huh, Paul?
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I’m using Animal Farm as a lesson taught by the main character in my novel. It’s been interesting re-reading this and finding a new appreciation of Orwell’s creative warnings to human kind. I hope we don’t have a contemporary Napoleon.
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nice
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Citing Animal Farm as an influence on this guy. Far too many words and pages. It seems to be innate, not acquired.
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Paul, put response in wrong place, see above.
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I do hope Alice gets you out of your worm hole soon…
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Another one that flew of his tiny little head.
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over…Wordpress definitely does what it wants to.
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On your suggestion, I just watched the 1st episode. I will try to watch more as time permits, for I think it’s enlightening to see how these people came to be the way they are, but … I will never understand the mentality! I found myself growling more than a few times!
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GregB writes about my note: “That kind of theoretical, clean separation works in theory but falls about after 10 seconds of considering its practice.”
Not so quick: Theory as scientific is always general. When it “falls” in practice, (or in the lab), it can be because the theory is incorrect or incomplete (as all scientists watch for), or because it is just not understood or applied well.
In this case, the “falling” does not concern the general theory, but rather in concrete circumstances the people who (1) fail in making the distinction between church and state (namely, tribal-minded religious and/or anti-religious people/totalitarians whom we all have talked about here many times) OR
(2) a misunderstanding and application of the theory, e.g., automatic and reactionary extremism from many fronts. This is theory as developed from and applied back to human history . . . which as human and historical, is still generally structured (see my other note); but, even once understood, is not as stable in its applications as, say, physics, math, or the natural sciences. As human and historical, it’s about minds and what we decide to do with them.
Look around at any concrete culture, and you will see as either (a) emerging or as (b) fully differentiated and struggling to find a right relationship (as is ours): the four basic cultural institutions: family, education, state, and religion, but in various stages of differentiation, which makes for “messy” but also generally clear on the ground, so to speak, and as your note suggests to me at least, a LACK of differentiation and the very human problems associated with that state of development.
An analysis of Russia’s current institutional situation would reveal at least some insights about what’s going on, and what CAN go on in the short and long-term. CBK
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