Governor Ron DeSantis wants to make sure that students are never exposed to anything in school that acknowledges the existence of people who are gay. Maybe he thinks that if their existence is never mentioned, they will disappear or go back into the closet.
The Miami-Dade School Board got his message. Last year the board approved a measure to recognize LGBTQ History Month. It was not controversial. Recently the board voted overwhelmingly to cancel that decision, in deference to state law proclaiming that gay people should not be acknowledged.
Last year, when the Miami-Dade School Board overwhelmingly supported a measure to recognize October as Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender and Queer (LGBTQ) History Month, some board members said their decision was rooted in another step toward civil rights for all people.
At the time, Vice Chair Steve Gallon III said he was “obligated to support the item because my DNA compels me to support inclusion. It compels me to support equity, it compels me to support equality.”
The nine-member board passed the proposal in a 7-1 vote, with Board Member Christa Fraga dissenting and Board Member Lubby Navarro absent.
This year, though, during a marathon and contentious meeting Wednesday, the board voted 8-1 to reject recognizing October as LGBTQ month. Only Board Member Lucia Baez-Geller supported the observance; she put forth the proposal, both last year and this year.
This time, Gallon said, his personal beliefs must be divorced from his obligation to follow the law, despite his “love for all humanity, my commitment to inclusivity and access to representation.”
He expressed concern Baez-Geller’s measure “did not fully comport with the law,” referencing Florida’s new Parental Rights in Education law, dubbed by critics as Florida’s “Don’t say gay” bill. In March, Gov. DeSantis signed the bill into law, prohibiting instruction related to gender identity or sexual orientation in kindergarten through third grade and could potentially restrict such instruction for older kids.
Gallon and seven other board members voted no on the October observance and no on allowing the district to explore teaching two landmark Supreme Court decisions impacting the LGBTQ community to 12th-grade students. To some, the board’s vote on Wednesday underscores the chilling effect the law is having on school boards in Florida.
“Nearly every board member opposing the resolution voiced their belief that the proclamation violated the Don’t Say LGBTQ Law, further evidence of the sweeping censorship of this law,” said a news release sent by Equality Florida, a civil rights organization that works with Florida’s LGBTQ community.
School board attorney Walter Harvey told the board Wednesday that he believed the measure was in compliance with the state law because it did not have changes to curriculum or instruction.
Board members, however, believed otherwise.
Law’s potential chilling effect
Throughout the hours-long meeting Wednesday, Baez-Geller tried to debunk what she called “disinformation” being promulgated by people at the podium.
For one, she said, the item included an opt-out for students on the Supreme Court lessons in addition to language that required any recognition be pursuant to state law.
Nevertheless, speaker after speaker opposed to the measure said the recognition would indoctrinate students; in some cases, speakers likened the resolution to child abuse.
“What I think is happening, (following) the removal of members of Broward County and the language and rhetoric from the right, it’s a scary time for allies … and people who would have voted in favor of this in the past may now be thinking twice,” she told the Herald Thursday. “The law is vague on purpose and as we saw, the law is meant to have a chilling effect, and I believe the law has been successful in scaring people away from topics that are potentially controversial or that could bring a lawsuit.”
Last month, DeSantis removed four elected Broward County School Board members following a grand jury report that cited the members for “incompetent management” and “neglect of duty.” He replaced the four members with four men — the four he suspended were all women — who had ties to him or to the Republican Party.…
At the end of July, opponents to the law sued DeSantis, the Florida Board of Education and Education Commissioner Manny Diaz Jr. in federal court in Tallahassee, challenging the law’s constitutionality. The case is pending.
A packed house, polarized crowd
Most of the speakers Wednesday spoke against the measure.
Patricia Moore was greeted with cheers from the packed auditorium after she said schools “are not here to indoctrinate with the LGBTQ agenda. We should not expose our children to this in school.”
Michael Rajner, however, was among those who spoke in favor of the measure, telling the board he knows what it’s like to have parents who told him not to tell others he was gay, including his siblings.
“Our struggle is real. Our struggle is history,” Rajner told the board members.
Now, if DeSantis should be elected President in 2024, he could tell cable and network stations not to broadcast any programs with gay characters, and he could censor the Internet.
He is a bigot and a bully.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
What the the Miami-Dade School Board did with their vote to drop the LBTQ Month is exactly what happened with Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain appeased Adolf Hitler and Nazi Germany prior to WWII. Chamberlain was a coward then and the Miami-Dade School Board is just as gutless.
If DeSantis is elected President this country is headed in the same direction as Germany in the 1920’s & 30’s.
I believe that Ron DeSantis is most dangerous man in America.
… “the” most dangerous man in America.
!!!!!!!!!!
Religion-
SCOTUS issued an interim ruling about Yeshiva U. and an LGBTQ club.
And we all know that the Supreme Court Majority will rule in favor of Yeshiva.
Yeshiva U recently received a $1 million Federal grant to renovate a campus Commons.
If they insist on discriminating based on sexual orientation (which violates federal standards), they should be forced to return that money and any other federal money that that they have received and are now receiving.
Public tax dollars should not be funding homophobic religious institutions.
No tax dollars nor tax avoidance for religious institutions.
Taxpayers have a right not to fund religious sects.
When Koch decided to achieve his social Darwinist goals through power hungry religious, he made Jefferson’s warning come true.
Today’s New York Times has a scathing investigative piece on Yeshiva schools which have “benefited from $1 billion in government funding in the last four years but are unaccountable to outside oversight.”
“In Hasidic Enclaves, Failing Private Schools Flush With Public Money”
The article is angering and heartbreaking, especially in how students emerge with little-to-none of the skills necessary to thrive in a modern society. Meanwhile, public schools and their teachers remain the scapegoats for all of society’s ills.
One of my former student teachers, an Orthodox woman, who believed in education for both genders, worked as a ESL teacher in Kiryas Joel, NY. Kindergartners, born in the US spoke only Yiddish, and they had no access to American culture or English. Her position was funded under Title 1. She described the place as an “alternative universe.” She had to abide by all sorts of rules in order to carry out her duties there.
Eleanor- that’s rich for the NYT. They were too stupid (or, too eager for billionaire dollars) to foresee a right wing religious SCOTUS giving tax money to religious schools which were deemed no different than private schools.
The public deserves for its tax dollars to be spent for the betterment of society which includes the teaching of evolution, equality of the sexes and races and, a plethora of other subjects that the religious reject.
DeSantis is using the culture wars to whip his biased base into a frenzy. Like most bullies he picks on those that are easy targets and don’t have much agency over their lives. The saddest part of his agenda is cancelling any gender affirming treatments that were provided by Medicaid. Vice News did a heart breaking story on these poor, fragile young Trans people. These older teens run the risk of self-harm because they cannot afford to pay for the treatment themselves.
Dictator DeSantis twisted the science of a Dr. Ken Pang to justify his actions. Pang stated in an interview that his earlier research is now out of date and should not be used to deny gender affirming care.https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7gg54/florida-transgender-healthcare-minors
Hugh Iglarsh described Andrew Torba, an advisor to Pa.’s Mastriano and Gab’s founder as having the less likable attributes of Steven Bannon, Cotton Mather, Torguemader and the Taliban.
Stephen Miller
Yes.
the “lunatic fringe” finding its place
I assume that those in favor of months that celebrate specific civil rights would have no problem with a “Legal Gun Owners” month celebrating all citizens’ civil right to keep and bear arms.
https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/
Not responsive to the question at hand. A simple thought experiment. I personally have no issue with special months, I just wonder to what degree people are willing to support them for causes they may not agree with.
Put that way, Dawn, you raise an interesting issue.
I do find it really sad that we can’t all agree on teaching our children to oppose sexism, racism, homophobia, xenophobia.
Funny, dawn is supposed to drive away the darkness, not bring it.
Haaa! I hadn’t thought of that song in about 50 years!!!
Actually, as used, dawn is a noun referring to a particular time of day and has no kinetic force generating properties.
Cambridge English Dictionary:
dawn. n. The period of the day in which light from the sun begins to appear in the sky
“drive away” is metaphorical
Thoughts-
(1) Congress passed the Civil Rights Act in 1964. (Btw- The Four Seasons recorded Dawn in 1963.)
(2) A year (2016) for which comparable data is available showed that 6% of Delaware and R.I. households had guns. That contrasted with 50% in Ark., W.V., and Wy. In 2016, gun deaths per 100,000 were 11 in Delaware and 4.1 in R.I. In Ark, Wyo., and W.Va., the rates were more than 17.
A society that works toward demographic inclusion is progressive. A society that works toward more guns and elimination of women’s and gay rights is a regressive society.
Does Dawn want the U.S. to be more like Western European democracies or to backtrack?
[Dawn] has no kinetic force generating properties.”
At dawn, the sun “drives away” darkness but not through “kinetic force generating properties ”
Although there is a force exerted by photons from the sun impinging on the earth, it is exceedingly small and that is not what results in “daylight” at any rate.
Currently, “Legal Gun Owners” are more than adequately supported by laws and the Constitution. The same cannot be said of LGBTQ.
Nor, as of June, women. Good thing we’ve still got Women’s History Month on the books. Just in case anyone was thinking it might be due for sundowning anytime soon.
Why do they need an lgbtq history month in October when pride month was just in june? Also, august was disability awareness month, but there were still more ad campaigns for pride w rainbows than there was for anything for disabled awareness. Its still not necessary to have pride at school. why are so few teachers asking why this is being prioritized over every other issue? What kind of people want kids to talk more about their sexuality than about schoolwork? Is this not a good opportunity to show students boundaries between home and public life? If the board wanted it, its because parents requested it. Isn’t that how we want our public schools to operate?
Just sayin. I’m an elementary school teacher, so I see much less need for this in our age group.
Sorry, WordPress put it in the wrong spot
October 11 is National Coming Out Day, and has been since 1988. So, it might be seen as an opportunity to consider some history.
You make a good point, Anne. A month about history is different than supporting rightful inclusion. Let’s add a month to celebrate the history of separation of church and state and another for freedom from religion.
J Shull– Actually (tho I don’t agree with the tone of your post), you pose a practical question. Across the 10 or so nations that celebrate pride month, some do so in October, some in June. Both have historical connections & traditions. Somehow we got going with both here in US, both initiated in the ‘90s. The October LGBTQ History month appears to be more effectively tied into school programs with history of movement, acknowledgment of individuals’ accomplishments etc, like Black History and Women’s History months. That suggests Oct is good as the school-connected month, leaving June to community parades et al (similar to Juneteenth).
A little taste of what the future looks like if the Repugnicans in their current instantiation win it all. People acting from fear. Afraid of losing their jobs. Afraid of goons in riot gear knocking down their doors.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face— forever.”
–Inner Party Member O’Brien to Winston in George Orwell’s 1984
“Don’t say Gay Law”
As long as the MAGA RINO Party and its want-to-be replacement for Traitor Trump and the traitor accuses liberals/Democrats of censorship while censoring everyone that isn’t a MAGA RINO, I have a few censorship suggestions and I think these censorship laws should all be felonies with a minimum of 10 years in prison before the possibility of parole and starting with a $100,000 fine. Can’t pay the fine, then the minimum prision sentence jumps to 15 years.
Don’t write or say MAGA in public or on social media.
Don’t write or say Trump in public or on social media.
Don’t listen to Trump.
Don’t talk about Trump, anywhere, even while sitting on a gold toilet or in orbit.
Don’t publish any news about Trump in traditional and social media.
Don’t read what Trump writes even if, in desperation the traitor sprays his ranting misspelled Tweets on the walls surrounding Mar-a-Lago and any of his golf courses.
Don’t use Trump’s name in public and that includes social media.
Don’t listen to DeSantis.
Don’t read what DeSantis says in public and social media.
Don’t talk about DeSantis.
But please feel free to flush DeSantis down a gold toilet into the sewer, and if he gets stuck in the toilet, use a plunger to get rid of that wad of toxic waste.
Don’t advertise, read about, or talk about firearms in any way.
Please, I welcome suggestions for censoring MAGA traitors to be added to this list.
My mother never writes Trump’s names in emails. She just uses a pile of _____ emoji.
I am all in favor of using Trump’s names in expressions like
Same Trump, different day
And then the Trump hit the fan.
Like pushing Trump uphill with a pity stick.
Boy, you are in a Trumpload of trouble now!
What a complete piece of Trump!
Are you Trumping me?
Send lawyers, guns and Shamans, the Trump has hit the fan.
Did you miss Trump’s big sale at Mar-a-Lago?
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/9/1/2119972/-Cartoon-Did-you-miss-Trump-s-big-sale-at-Mar-a-Lago?detail=emaildkoyc&pm_source=DKRE&pm_medium=email
All too true, unfortunately.
You are aware of course that the law you reference does not say anything about not saying gay, but does show how readily people can be manipulated by media (something we ought to teaching our kids about).
It would be hilarious to read the disingenuous defenses of this obvious homophobia if it weren’t so sickening. Some kids have two dads, some two moms, and this will be news to some kids, surprising to them. And they will have questions, and only a freaking homophobe would insist on their questions not being answered and threaten to fire anyone who would answer them.
Obviously
The bill doesn’t say “gay,” but it says “sexual orientation” and “gender identity,” each twice.
“Be these juggling fiends no more believed / That palter with us in a double sense.” –Shakespeare, Macbeth
You know, as in, but it doesn’t say “gay.” OMG.
cx: if they weren’t so sickening
Here’s how it is. Some people are STILL backward homophobes, and they want to force their provincial prejudices on a country that has moved way, way past them.
There is a difference between answering kids’ questions and incorporating beliefs into curricula.
“Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards.”
Nothing in there says you can’t say gay or answer questions. And the word “homophobia” is stupid. It literal means fear of humans.
Talking about incorporating beliefs into curricula. When I was still teaching high school English, at least one of the history teachers incorporated his beliefs into the curricula by showing a lot of documentary and war movies into the history he taught that glorified war. Whenever we had a chance to talk, he’d always mention how much he regretted not being in combat or joining the military. I didn’t say it but I thought, “What an ignorant fool! He has no idea what he’s talking about. There is no glory in war.”
Then some of his students would show up in my English class and ask me what I thought since I’m a former US Marine and combat vet and this teacher was just a Republican conservative war monger.
That was in the late 1980s after I left the Republican Party and became an indie voter thanks to President Teflon Don Reagan, the lying, manipulating sack of “guess what I’m referring to.” Yea, Reagan was in the Army but he got to make war mongering propaganda films to suck in the suckers so they could serve and maybe help the body bag industry make money.
It’s well know where I taught that most history and PE teachers were traditionally conservative back then, whatever that means today, and English teachers were not. I’m a moderate, meaning I agree with liberals on some issues and conservatives on others. But that was decades before the theofascist MAGA RINO mafia attacked our government on January 6, who were incited to attack by Traitor Trump.
What did I tell my students who had that war monger history teacher that never served or fought?
Since almost 80% of the students at that high school lived in poverty, I said, if you want to go to college (for most the GI Bill is the only option, it worked for me), the military will help pay for it. But do not join the Army or Marines, because that’s the two branches with most of the casualties and recruits are treated like “same thing I said about Reagan above.”
I said, “Join the Navy or Airforce, and after you’ve earned the college degree you wanted and the military paid for it, get out!”
I’m not judging, nor do I think teachers shouldn’t be allowed to express their opinions–that’s not the same as making such info part of the curriculum. Personally, I think the farther government entities are from local education the less influence they should have on curricula.
I agree. State and federal governments must stay out of the classroom and let teachers teach. But first, I think the country, every state, must match Finland’s teacher standards to raise the quality of teachers as professionals and then trust them to do their jobs like they are trusted in Finland.
That includes states and feds getting out of the testing insanity.
I’ve never been to Finland–I do know they have a population less than that of NYC and are over 90% ethnically Finnish (ie, white). I agree that effective teachers should be paid much more, but it’s a chicken and egg situation. A masters-level engineer can start at about 100k, a masters-level teacher less than half of that. On the other hand, schools of ed consistently attract some of the lowest performing students in the school, likely because they their job prospects don’t pay much. If teachers started at 85K, better students would go into teaching. Who starts the cycle.
Regarding licensing tests, states have screwed this up royally. The original concept was to prove that you know enough, say, math to stand in front of a math class, so the tests focused on math concepts and problem solving. It was to be one gear in a cog that included internships, mentoring, human feedback and coaching, in-service training, and of course experience (and ideally, the ability to easily fire poor performers). Then along came things like national and state standards and ideologues who tried to force multiple choice tests to measure more than they are reasonably able to do. Now they test what is called content-specific pedagogy and educational philosophies more than just straight content. Many candidates struggle with these tests as much of their content is learned on the job, not in the college classroom.
In Finland, it is difficult to become a teacher. It is a highly respected profession. Only 1 of every 10 who wants to be a teacher gains admission to teacher education. There is no standardized testing until grade 9. The arts and physical activities are emphasized. Classes are small. There is a 15-minute recess between all classes. Children are encouraged to be active and independent. Schools offer free meals three times a day. Teachers lounges are comfortable and attractive.
I also have not been to Finland, and I am also aware of the differences in demographics between the US and Finland. Most of the population of Finland also belongs to one religion, not hundreds as in the US.
I’ve also read that most children in Finland already know how to read when they start school at age 7 (not 5 as the US) because their parents taught them or paid someone to teach them starting at a very early age or maybe both.
Finland has standards and a test that matches those standards but teaching to those standards and administering the standardized tests is up to individual teachers. It’s not mandatory.
I’ve also read that Finland does publicly fund private schools if parents want their children to attend a private school, but Finland requires those private schools to follow all the same rules/laws that the public schools do, and the teachers in those private schools must also meet the professional requirements as the law/legislation spells out.
So, yes, the demographically and economically the US and Finland are very different, but that doesn’t mean the US couldn’t learn from Finland and apply some of what Finland does to our public education system.
ONE: Get rid of standardized testing
TWO: Allow teachers to teach with no meddling from the political sector. Education legislation should only be about funding and the physicalal/mental safety of students, no child abuse allowed.
THREE: If anything should be standardized, it should apply to teacher training and requirements to teach — no need for rank and punish tests to do that since Finland offers a great example of what they expect of their teachers training programs.
FOUR: Provide more recess time for children K – 12.
There’s more I’m sure we could lean from Finland to help the US save its public schools and get them back on track where they were before President Reagan released the misleading and lying manufactured A Nation at Risk report in the 1980s that was a declaration of war against our public schools.
Not one president since Reagan declared that war against our public schools has done anything to stop that war.
https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2018/04/29/604986823/what-a-nation-at-risk-got-wrong-and-right-about-u-s-schools
“Disadvantaged and lower-middle-class U.S. students perform better (and in most cases, substantially better) than comparable students in similar post-industrial countries in reading. In math, disadvantaged and lower-middle-class U.S. students perform about the same as comparable students in similar post-industrial countries.”
https://www.epi.org/publication/us-student-performance-testing/
Dawn, there is a difference between what a word means today and its etymological meaning. You know this.
homophobia. n. Irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or gay people
–Merriam Webster Dictionary
The etymology of porcelain is an Italian slang word for vulva (porcella–look it up), but porcelain doesn’t, today, mean vulva. The etymology of homo is man, but homophobe doesn’t mean one who fears men. Obviously.
Of course I am aware of the common meaning of the word. Like you I made a living in that arena (I even once worked for the company you cited). I understand that language evolves–hell, bad once meant bad, alternative facts were once lies, infrastructure once did not include Medicaid. I just think we can do better than a word that requires translating part of it as a slur in order to make even a modicum of sense.
“Don’t say Gender”
Don’t say “gender”
Don’t say “sex”
Don’t offend her
Dawn knows best
Lloyd-
I added comment to a point you made (the last entry in the post comment thread at 4:37, 9-12).
Thanks for the directions to find your reply to one of my comments on this site, but I will not spend the time to hunt that down. Most of the replies to my comments appear in my e-mail in-box unless I forget to check “Notify me of new comments via email.”
I do that sometimes since I wake up to dozens of new emails every morning and spend a few hours sifting through them to find the ones worth opening.
But sifting through new emails isn’t the only thing I do with my life. It’s a fraction of the goals I set each day to accomplish.
Dawn– First off, let me congratulate you for standing up to the crowd here and putting forth your opinion without diatribe. Tho I dearly love this forum, I will admit I focus more other places where there is lively debate more often, and I can more often contribute something new for others to consider. It is refreshing to get an opposite viewpoint from time to time from someone who is willing to discuss issues without resorting to name-calling.
Back to your point. You seem to have missed the very strong illustration in the post topic of the chilling effect of such laws. It doesn’t matter how you parse the letter of the law. The fact that there is a law to this effect tells you all you need to know.
That the state has no confidence in its own pubsch ed stds, for example. By legislating, they imply that without constant vigilance, “schools” will sneak in stds to which the public takes umbrage. Contrast the goings-on in NJ: we have new sex-ed stds which are not universally popular. But in NJ, the state cannot impose stds in the same way as they apparently (?) can in FL. Each district chooses how to meet a new std after public discussion prior to elected schboard decision, & prior to start of schyr. E.g., Toms River schdistrict published [mid-Aug] their implementation of the state’s proposed std. They have singled out a couple of passages for K-2 for parents to do at home. One was naming genital parts. The other was “how gender-role stereotypes may limit behavior”: “This standard will continue to be taught in a way that has students identify the things they like to do and the things they like to wear (e.g. “I like soccer… I like to wear hats… I like baking with my grandma… I like to sing.”) Students will share how they express themselves and spend their time. With regard to the portion of the standard that reads “…how gender-role stereotypes may limit behavior”: That additional topic can be taught at home in a manner that parents feel is
appropriate for their child.”
Also: that the state has no confidence in how state stds will be expressed in curriculum chosen by the district. God forbid that a picture-book used in FL pusch K-3 has an illustration suggesting that 2-woman or 2-man parental units even exist. Once you have a law, with sanctions tied to pubsch funding, all that is up for grabs – public is even encouraged by this law to lodge complaints/ lawsuits.
So why would you imagine it is OK, per this law, for teachers to simply answer little kids’ questions about somebody else’s “different” parental units?
I don’t believe I said it was wrong for teachers to answer questions; I merely wondered whether teacher initiated discussions should be part of the formal curriculum. My main point was how readily we uncritically allow media and politicians (including union leaders) to mislabel things such as this law. Imagine if the media decided to label it the Don’t Groom Our Children Law? Apoplexy! I’m not expressing a personal opinion, just an observation.
Here is a personal opinion: years ago my third grade son brought home a worksheet that he asked for help on because he didn’t know many of the answers. The questions included, Are you gay or straight? How much do your parents make? What kind of car(s) do they drive? Do you have a gun in your house?, etc. I sent it back with a note saying none of this is your business–not surprisingly, he did not do well in that class. I’m guessing most parents aren’t looking for that level of intrusion, which is one reason why they support such laws. Personally, I support common sense, but it’s so hard to find.
Dawn,
Those are outrageous questions. I would not answer them.
I answer questions like that from Gallup all the time but Gallup says my identity will not be revealed when I answer questions like that I agreed to answer.
Seriously, I’m having trouble accepting that a sane and/or seasoned, professional third grade teacher would risk sending out homework assignments with questions like those that were not on the state’s approve curriculum list and was approved by his or her school district.
When I was still teaching, if a parent complained to administration about a homework assignment with questions like that, that teacher might end up being fired or chewed out and transferred to another school in that district.
And I taught in California’s public schools.
It was not a homework assignment–I believe it was to be completed in class. I may have overstated the exact wording–they did ask to describe his family’s economic situation (not in those words). They did ask his sexual orientation and they definitely asked if there was a gun in the house. This was in the bluest of blue states.
I taught in one of the bluest of blue states, California, for thirty years and asking personal questions like that, specially in grade school, would have gotten me fired if the parent complained to administration. That said, my district was traditionally conservative from the majority of the school board to almost every district administrator.
Those were the kind of questions that were too personal to be allowed to ask in the school district where I taught. Asking questions like that wouldn’t have occurred to any of the teachers I know.
But that doesn’t mean a teacher wouldn’t hand out an assignment like that because I knew of a few teachers that didn’t have much if any common sense.
One really stupid teacher that was fired his first day of teaching (right out of college) before lunch, taught a lesson to his students on his first day of full time teaching on how to cheat on standardized tests.
That didn’t even make it home, because some of his students went straight the office and complained the moment their class ended. Even the students knew that was wrong.
And as a parent with a son (now in his 40s) and daughter (30s), either her mother or I checked their homework every night and I never, never, never saw anything that violated the privacy if a student’s framily like what you shared.
I think you should have complained to admin and not to the teacher (correct me if I’m wrong. I thought you said you complained to the teacher). Teachers that ask for that kind of information shouldn’t be teaching. And if Admin did nothing, if I was the parent, I would have taken it to a school board meeting and complained.
And I’m a moderate, not a liberal or conservative.
That’s outrageous. None of their business.
“years ago my third grade son brought home a worksheet that he asked for help on because he didn’t know many of the answers. The questions included, Are you gay or straight? How much do your parents make? What kind of car(s) do they drive? Do you have a gun in your house?, etc”
Interesting that you claim your third grade son brought a worksheet like this from school.
During my thirty years of teaching, I never heard of any teacher assigning questions like these on a homework worksheet that was sent home. Since we were required to teach from a state curriculum list for each grade level and academic subject, English, history, math, et al, that was longer than the school year had days, teachers didn’t have time to go off on their own and assign worksheets that had nothing to do with the state curriculum we were required to teach in each subject area and grade level.
But Gallup invited me to be one of their sources some years ago and from time to time I get questionnaires that are similar to the one you mentioned your third grade son brought home.
Doesn’t sound like a legitimate third-grade homework assignment to me. Sounds more like an assignment from a university level sociology class that teachers earning a masters may have been assigned.
What it does sound like is something from Q&A non-profits like these two:
https://www.pewresearch.org/
https://www.gallup.com/home.aspx
Lloyd says ” I’m having trouble accepting that a sane and/or seasoned, professional third grade teacher would risk sending out homework assignments with questions like those”
I’m having trouble as well. IE That sounds like a made up story. Any teacher who actually sent out such questions would have to know that the child would ask his or her parents because few (if any ) third graders would know how much money their parents earn. Which, as Lloyd points out, no sane teacher would risk.
Is it possible that an insane teacher would do such a thing? Yes, but it is also possible that space aliens built the pyramids.
Lloyd also said “What it does sound like is something from Q&A non-profits..”
Or just something from Qanon
Lloyd and SomeDAM……These “questionnaires” are frequently given out to students. 8 yrs ago when my daughter was in 6th grade, she brought home a permission slip for the drug/alcohol/smoking portion of health class. Of course I signed it. A few weeks later the entire county was blowing up at the school board who had approved a lengthy questionnaire/survey from the JHU School of Public Health to be given to students (permission was required and that permission slip was slyly worded!!). Let’s just say that there were some questions about the smoking/drinking/drug habits (about 1/3 of the survey), but the majority were on sexual matters that 6th graders really had no concept about. My daughter came home asking me how many times a week she should (?) be having sex….you can imagine I (and many other parents) weren’t very happy! The SAME survey was given to grades 6-12. Some Indian and Muslim families opt out of sex ed (religious reasons) in our very diverse and blue county/state.
There were numerous times that surveys were sent home asking about salaries, jobs, cars driven, gun ownership, food/drink consumption etc. I returned them with a “None of your Business” reply. I didn’t appreciate the intrusion. SEL and the surveys peaked with child #2 and we walked away from public education and its common core, standardized testing, surveys and the “data collection” that it generated.
Maybe some retired teachers posting on this blog do not realize just how much education has changed since Ed Deform became the norm. There isn’t much real “education” happening in classrooms anymore.
Well, I have been out of teaching since August 2005, and teachers I know who are still teaching say it is a lot worse than it was back then. It’s not easy for me to imagine teaching worse than what I experienced as a teacher.
My best teaching years were between 1975 – 1983, when Republican President Teflon-Don (trickle piss from the wealthy on the working class to make the rich wealthier) Reagan released “A Nation at Risk” and used that misleading report to declarer war on our public schools, teachers’ unions and public school teachers that every president to this day supports, even Biden.
And most of what’s worse since 2005, is being caused by the “ED Deform” crime syndicate made up mostly if not totally by the traitorous, libertarian theofascist MAGA lunatics that still support Traitor Trump and the traitor’s BIG LIE.
The thing that made me skeptical (to put it mildly) was the claim that it was sent out for third grader.
There is a pretty significant difference between sixth and third graders.
I might be wrong, but I still doubt the claim about ig being sent out with a third grader.
That is why sixth grade is often part of middle school, but never third grade.
I agree. Third graders wouldn’t know anything on the survey.
Lloyd…..I had kids in public schools and my sister taught in public schools for 30+ yrs (retiring 6 yrs ago). Teaching was never easy. Even though Nation at Risk came out, it was still a few administrations away from a full on assault on public education. Teachers may have been annoyed, but the system still worked and kids were still being educated well. It wasn’t until Clinton opened the door to Charters that things started getting pretty bad for teachers as they were really trying to break the Unions at that point. Even under Bush2 (the Shrub), students were still learning (even while being test prepped) and teachers still had some autonomy. The Obama era opened up a Pandora’s Box that can never be fully closed. Scripted CC curriculum (NO teacher autonony), more testing/constant test prep, more surveys/questionnaires from outside vendors(FERPA was rewritten for this!), SEL, data walls from massive data collection. A lot of the experienced teachers left. As a retired teacher, I’m sure you don’t understand what the inside of a classroom is like these days. It isn’t pleasant for teachers OR students ….or even school admin.
I was still teaching when Obama did that. I remember. It angered me then, and I will never forgive the neoliberal Obama administration for what it did to pound more nails in the coffin of public education.
Public education in the US isn’t dead yet, but its well on its way and has been crippled horribly by the Destroy Public Education traitorous, greedy, power hungry, corrupt crime syndicate.
Lisa—thanks for mentioning that these surveys are from “vendors” – exactly what occurred to me, reading of these survey-intrusions into family life via the school [as described by you and Dawn]. The undermining of FERPA to allow data-mining was outrageous, & should be another target for Cardona’s ‘do list.
bethree5….. I always knew it wasn’t coming from the teachers. What really got me riled was that the surveys/questionnaires were sent home as “homework assignments” with an assigned grade (very sleazy maneuver by admin). My kids (while in ES and MS) would become hysterical with me because I would write “none of your business” across the paper and they were convinced that they would get a “0” on their homework assignment. I assured them that they would NOT receive a big fat “0” and they never did. I was known by admin as the parent not to mess with because I would speak my mind if need be. In my 2nd child’s trip thru MS, the VP would actually call or email me to remind me to send in my “Refusal” paperwork for signature because the testing started in the 1st few weeks of school when everything is very hectic.
Moving beyond this:
I think that the smarter Republicans are extremely worried about Trump running again. They know that if he does, they lose again. So, the best thing for them is for Trump to be disqualified from running again as a result of one of the many criminal cases against him currently being put together. Pugs with a brain have to know that they have to move him aside.
I strongly suspect that the Republican nominee in 2024 will be Governor DeSantis. No one has anything like his war chest. And he played Mini-Me to Trump for long enough and thoroughly enough that he is now firmly entrenched as a viable replacement for Glorious Leader Who Shines More Orange Than Does the Sun.
DeSantis’s is completely acceptable to the Trump base. The problem that he will have is that he has done such a good job of positioning himself there that he is anathema to anyone not part of that base. How does he convincingly move, after all this, enough to the center to appeal to the broad electorate? That will be his issue.
cx: DeSantis is
Bob, I keep going back to the discussion I had with a 12th grader in the weeks leading up to the 2020 election. I live in a red corner of a blue state….Trump was on his way to beating Biden in our school’s “mock” student election by a more than 2 to 1 margin.
One morning, right before the vote, a decent, hardworking farm kid stuck around after class because he had a question for me.
Some older guy in his life had told him, “If Biden gets elected, our way of life will be gone forever.”
“Mr. O… is that true?” this student asked me.
He wanted to know and he was trusting me.
Wow. You know, talk about teaching that has absolutely, totally nothing to do with standardized testing.
I tried to give that young man the most accurate and honest answer I could come up with.
Of course, people like DeSantis are playing with (and profiting from) all the fear that is being peddled to families.
What happens if this wildfire really gets out of control?
That is some question, isn’t it, John. I fear that these backward folk will grab all the reins of power and then try to enforce their will and be met with protests, which they will respond to with violence, of course, which will lead to more protests, which will lead to more violence, . . . It could get really, really bad. As bad as it gets. Civil War bad.
A lot of these red state politicians do not grok at all how far beyond them the rest of the country is. They wouldn’t understand that to people in civilization the freaking antichrist and Satan are on a level with Pegasus and Medusa–entirely fictional entities, and so fodder for comedy.
My students in deep read Flor-uh-duh were almost all antiracist. However, there were a few, during the run-up to the 2016 election, a small handful of senior boys, who sat in my class before the bell rang one day, in their MAGA hats, literally chanting, “Build the wall. Build the wall. Hitler had the right idea.” So, I told the entire class, in detail, the story of my girlfriend’s mother, from Czechoslovakia, who, at the age of 12, lost her entire family, her immediate family, her extended family, her neighbors, everyone she knew, all murdered by the Nazis. All became smoke and ashes.
deep red*
Trump is not going to go willingly and DeSantis, who is used to bullying female teachers and data scientists, is not going to have an easy time getting the nomination.
I suspect that the smarter Republicans are going to back off and let the documents scandal take its course because they need this guy out of the way, ineligible to run, and having committed espionage and conspiracy to obstruct a government proceeding (the attempt to regain control of these classified documents) fits the bill.
I agree, Bob. With the exception of true nuts, like Boebert, Gohmert, Greene, etc, the Republicans want Trump out of the way. Some despise him, some want to run for President, some think he’s so damaged that he will lose.
Trump literally cannot imagine, will not accept as real, any universe in which he loses, despite the fact that he has been a loser all his life. So, when he is perp walked in handcuffs, he will be screaming that it’s all bogus and calling on his citizens’ militias to rise up and put the rightful president back into the Whiter House.
Smarter Republicans?
All two of them?
“when he is perp walked in handcuffs”
There you go again with your wishful thinking.
And actually, Trump’s motivation to not end up in handcuffs is precisely why DeSantis is going to have a battle the likes of which he has never seen. It will make him wish he had stuck with his forte of bullying female data scientists.
DeSantis is the bully who picked on girls in junior high and high school.
Even if Garland eventually develops the cahones to indict Trump, it ain’t going to happen before the 2024 election because the classified documents issue will be tied up in the courts for some time.
Not to mention the fact that is likely that the Extreme Majority will side with Trump (which will probably actually make Garland breath a sigh of relief)
You make good points, SomeDAM. It will be interesting to see what happens. If Trump does survive until 2024, he will win the nomination, but he hasn’t a rational idea’s chance in Trump’s brain of winning.
This, to paraphrase our friend Duane, is adminimalism gone amuck.
¡Sí, señor!
But perhaps not just amuck but also of mandating insane practices.
We are two different countries with a common border. One is, ironically, almost indistinguishable from Afghanistan under the Taliban. The other lives in the 21st century. These two countries are not compatible. It’s not that they don’t understand one another. It’s that they hate everything the other stands for. We’re in pretty big trouble.
Lest you think I am exaggerating, here is Republican Congressman Mike Johnson of Louisiana, 6 days ago. To me, this guy sounds like an utter madman, a throwback to previous centuries, a superstitious fruitcake, a nutcase, an extremist. This sounds to me positively medieval. Totally bat-doo cuckoo. But there are millions of Americans who will read this and think it sane. He’s talking, here, about a new program starring Danny DeVito. It sounds like it will be pretty funny. Lighthearted entertainment. But not to Rep. Jordan:
The shocking ending to the LSU opener was not the most disturbing part of the game last night. For me, that came during a commercial break in the second quarter when the television audience was presented with the trailer for a new FX cartoon “sitcom” entitled, “LITTLE DEMON.”
I couldn’t get to the remote fast enough to shield my 11-year-old from the preview, and I wonder how many other children were exposed to it—and how many millions more will tune in to the new series, owned and marketed by DISNEY.
The trailer included dark images of Hell, demons, and satanic imagery, and an explanation that the main character is… the Antichrist(!).
Disney provides this surreal description: “Thirteen years after being impregnated by Satan, a reluctant mother, Laura, and her Antichrist daughter, Chrissy, attempt to live an ordinary life in Delaware, but are constantly thwarted by monstrous forces, including Satan, who yearns for custody of his daughter’s soul.”
The actress who voices Laura said in an interview, “I love that we are normalizing paganism. Laura is a pagan. She’s a witch. She’s jacked.”
Another online review explains that Chrissy discovers she’s the Antichrist “in grisly fashion, quickly reducing a gaggle of school bullies into piles of red goo in what turns out to be the first of many spectacularly gory sequences. Chrissy doesn’t seem overly concerned by the whole triple-murder thing, shrugging it off with an easy-breezy attitude that sets the tone for the rest of ‘Little Demon.’”
“Most of the show’s best moments come when it leans into its hellish premise and plumbs the depths of its own depravity. It’s likely you’ve never seen a man punch a hole in his own face before or heard the words, ‘Let’s go boil some babies while their heads are still soft’ in quite that order and, after two decades of South Park, Family Guy, and other cartoon shock merchants, an animated series finding new ways to disgust is a genuine achievement.”
WHAT IN THE WORLD?!?
I could write volumes this morning, and unpack pages of Bible verses here, but instead I’m just going to state the obvious: Please be careful. Our job as parents is to guard the hearts and minds of our kids. This culture has become alarmingly dark and desensitized and this is not a game. Disney and FX have decided to embrace and market what is clearly evil. STAY FAR FROM IT.
“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.” (1 Peter 5:8)
The adversary prowls. OMG. I am rolling on the floor laughing. This guy is serious. But then, that he is serious is no laughing matter.
cx: Rep. Johnson
“… after being impregnated by Satan…”
Satan is certainly capable of “immaculate” conception.
So we can only conclude from this that Satans just wanna have fun, Satans just wanna have fun. They wanna have fun
Bob– Rep Mike Johnson of LA seems, as a parent, sadly behind the times. My kids are around 30yo now. When early-day video games were showing obvious signs of being addictive, we removed hand-held & all associated paraphernalia from very young sons’ hands & replaced with home network featuring educational games, & any violent/ dark content verboten. Of course they could get it from friends, but closest friend-families had same policy. [“Duke Nuke’m” was on the sh-list, along with any military cr*p. Mario, as well as Sam & Max et al ironic & funny stuff: have at it.] In same era, TV-watching—at least under our supervision—was restricted to PBS & Nick. Sure they could get it somewhere else, but at least parental units were expressing strong opinion. Which in our case, kids osmosed.
Why on earth Johnson lets his kids watch [obviously big-3 network] stations that interrupt [lowest-common-denominator] shows with creepy, violent imagery promoting vidgames is beyond me. It’s not like there aren’t hundreds of alternative stations.
cx: within a common border
Reblogged this on What's Gneiss for Education and commented:
I am so glad I teach in a free state.
For now.
yup
Good that you don’t take it for granite
I grew up during Reaganism’s tenets of freedom equating with no governmental interference.
I’m not gong to say that today’s Republicans are unrecognizable, they ARE recognizable. Twain said history doesn’t repeat but itself but it rhymes. If I have to countenance one more comparison to Hitler and Nazism, I’m going to throw up. However, today’s Republicans are all about acquiring raw power, exercising it, and, once seized, eliminating anyone opposed to it: eliminating rights, quashing free speech, burning and banning books. They are, indeed, a clear and present danger to the national security and democratic republic of these United States. The Ruling Elite that has bankrolled the Libertarian Order for the last fifty-plus years (Kochs, Scaifes, Olins, Bradleys, Popes, et al) couldn’t be happier for this moment in history.
“If I have to countenance one more comparison to Hitler and Nazism, I’m going to throw up.”
Be that as it may, is it okay to refer to the current regressive Rethuglicans as fascists? (meant to be a serious question)
That’s precisely what they are, so it’s simply accurate.
Oh, absolutely. The reductio ad Hitlerum/ad Nazium tactic, or Godwin’s Law, has been so overdone that, tragically, the comparison doesn’t mean anything anymore, especially when Republicans likened Obama and Biden to Hitler, Merrick Garland and the FBI the Gestapo. How ironic! I almost want to believe they’re making those hypocritical comparisons aloud because it’s actually their subconscious saying, “Hey! You’re stealing our thunder! That’s who we want to be!”
But yes, despotic and depraved tyrants is what I would call them.
I don’t have to use the word “fascist.” I’m fine with “wannabe autocrats,” which includes the entire political spectrum. Like the proverbial judge said about pornography, “I know it when I see it.” Step 1 is nationalist populism: divide to conquer. Cast all political issues [existent or invented] as us vs them—with ‘us’ being you&me the people [el pueblo], & them being the ‘outsider,’ fill in blank that sings: effete intellectuals, immigrants, coastal elites, other races, etc. Step 2: ramp up polarization initiated in #1, demonizing the ‘other.’ Step 3: establish a “post-truth” culture where no one is sure of what facts are— demonize the press & intellectuals. Step 4: get control of the courts.
I never compared Trump to Hitler. Hitler was smarter. He wrote a book. I doubt that Trump ever read one. I do, however, think that the Republican Party is moving toward fascism. Their leaders want a certain moral order based on their bigotry, so they force women to have births at risk of their life, they enact laws to restrict or eviscerate voting rights, they shame LGBT persons, they countenance anti-Semitism.
I fully expected Kayleigh McEnany or former Trump Propaganda Minister Stephen Miller to ghostwrite Trump’s Mein Kampf after his failed Beer Hall Putsch. But perhaps they were just too sick of him, too, like the rest of us. Trump did come out with a book, though. A picture book. And he charged the suckers over $200 a pop for it.
As a high school teacher, I signed a written oath to the Constitution, the same exact words with which our military and politicians use to swear allegiance. Life as an impartial teacher nowadays, especially in a democracy under siege, is not a place where the clever refinements of a detached neutrality and (what I hope is) intelligence have much use anymore. It’s a fine line we’re walking, even in New York State. Everyone is scared, fearful, to talk about what’s going on for fear of reprisal, punishment, dismissal, etc.
Hitler wrote Mein Kampf
Trump tweeted Mine Covfefe
I think every teacher who supports LGTBQ rights should wear a rainbow T-shirt to work in protest. What do you think?
Yes! Or rainbow striped socks. jewelry, or some other such gesture. When they are scolded, as they inevitably will be, they can say the rainbow is a reference to the covenant that God makes with Noah after sending the flood.
Above in the thread, Lloyd identifies Finland has having most of its people as members of one religion. Should the U.S. have one religion as Michael Flynn calls for, it would be evangelical/conservative Catholic. Those two religions have become disastrous for U.S. democracy.
“Religiosity and the Crisis of Liberal Democracy,” a presentation at the University of Helsinki on 10-11-2021, concluded that, “In the U.S., religiosity celebrates militant masculinity and traditional gender roles, fixed and normatively uncontested social/racial hierarchies and, hyper libertarianism, paired with Dominionism.”
The strategy of the right wing to win elections is “cross-cutting issues” which derive from the aforementioned characteristics.
Finnish population: 67% members of Evangelical Lutheran Church, 31% unaffiliated, 1% Finnish Orthodox, 1% other.
US is similar, though more diverse: 65% Christian [43% Prot (25% Evangelist, 18% mainstream Prot), 20% Catholic, 2% Mormon], 30% unaffiliated, 2% Jewish, 3% other [1% each Hindu, Buddhist, Islam].
It doesn’t make political sense to view Evang Prots/ Catholics as a bloc. Evang Prots vote 85% Rep; Catholics vote splits Rep/ Dem along same lines as nation. We are increasingly fragmented religiously, so look to the largest [& growing] fragment: unaffiliated.
p.s. who cares what Mike Flynn “calls for”
If SCOTUS was not part of the driving force toward theocracy, if the political campaign, “Jesus, guns, babies” didn’t win elections in the south and central states, if Koch hadn’t intertwined libertarianism with conservative religion and, if sex and racial hierarchies weren’t taught/ their support grown in evangelical/conservative Catholic Churches, what Michael Flynn said would not matter.
p.s. It’s important to distinguish where political power is located, conservative vs. liberal protestants and conservative vs. liberal Catholics. It’s apparent that some segment of the population is concerned by the threat of Christian nationalism. Bethree, if you don’t think conservative Catholics number, in a consequential amount, among those supporters then, I understand the source of our difference of opinion.
The % breakdown by religion for the US population at large is not the most relevant factor when it comes to power/ influence.
The % breakdown for governmental institutions like the Supreme Court is (the simple truth is that the people in our government– President, Congress, Supreme Court– often pay little need to what the general population want, at any rate)
John Roberts Catholicism
Clarence Thomas Catholicism
Samuel Alito Catholicism
Sonia Sotomayor Catholicism
Elena Kagan Judaism
Neil Gorsuch Anglicanism/Catholicism
Brett Kavanaugh Catholicism
Amy Coney Barrett Catholicism
Ketanji Brown Jackson Protestantism
While being a Catholic does not necessarily determine how a Supreme Court Justice votes (as illustrated by Sotomayor), it does undoubtedly have a large influence. And it’s hard to dismiss the fact that the vast majority of the current justices are Catholic, which undoubtedly played a key role in the Majority overturn of Roe.
I don’t believe that Linda exaggerates in the least when she points out that we ignore the religious makeup of powerful government institutions at our peril.
Thanks Poet
Historians in the future will find it remarkable that
media and influencers covered for the Catholic church’s politicking. And, they will find the success of the Church’s tribalists in deflecting from the clear and present danger the Church created when it turned the nation toward GOP voting, to be astonishing.
When one understands the self-serving myths about Catholic Church’s opposition to Mussolini and Hitler that have lasted for more than 75 years, it makes it easy to see what played out again, manifested in Trump.
What does conservative religion teach men about women’s value?
Conservative religious media embraced Clint Eastwood’s portrayal of 3 young military men who thwarted a terrorist attack on a Paris train in the movie, “The 15:17 to Paris.” In an early scene in the film one of the soldiers is shown as a child reciting the Prayer of St. Francis and references his religious schooling. If religion is credited for who he is, then, it’s fair to review his life in full. Raw Story posted about Spencer Stone and Alek Skalartos (running for office in Oregon as a Republican), two of the 3 soldiers in the movie. The conversation of the two men about women, part of a public podcast, informs us about the danger when women are marginalized as if not human.
I dug through boxes in the basement and found the questionnaire (I think it’s the one I remember). I was wrong–it was a welcome to fourth grade questionnaire. It asked about brothers and sisters, pets, vacations, toys, living situation, gay or straight, etc, and yes, if there were any guns in the house.
Unless there is reason to believe the intrusive questionnaire was in wide spread use, Dawn and Lisa M’s anecdotal stories exemplify the Rush Limbaugh model of argumentation- tar the whole, with isolated incidents.
When religious schools prohibit students whose parents are unmarried or in same sex marriages from admittance, that’s intrusion into private lives. Does the cohort that includes Dawn and Lisa M. find that as offensive?
In terms of risk assessment, the school may want to know about drug usage in the home, parents of students who are on sex offender lists, guns in the home (there is clear evidence that more guns result in more deaths by gun), the family’s behavior relative to vaccinations for diseases like polio, lead in the paint of the homes, unsafe public water in the homes in cities like Flint, etc. How much of that information should be asked is not a clear decision.
You say your kids are in college and you saved a survey from 4th grade?
Sorry but I am very skeptical of hearsay with no corroborating evidence.
If it’s true, you should have no problem taking a photo and putting it on a photo sharing site like Flikr and posting a link. Blacking out any identifying info, of course) it’s a simple process and can be done completely anonymously.
Good point, Poet-
There was a time when the comfort level Republicans have with lying wasn’t obvious but, that ship sailed.