Christina Cauterucci wrote in Slate about “the debate that never happened.” A bill submitted to the House of Delegates by Wren Williiams, a newly elected Republican legislator, included a requirement that students learn about “the first debate” between Abraham Lincoln and Frederick Douglass. The debate, to those who studied U.S. history in high school, was not between Abraham Lincoln and Frederick Douglass but between Lincoln and Stephen Douglas. Williams became a laughing stock online, but the Virginia Division of Legislative Services, stepped up and took responsibility for the error. Regardless of where the fault lies, the issue it highlights is the absurdity of allowing legislators to determine what should or should not be taught.
The Virginia bill would prohibit instructors from teaching that the U.S. is “systemically racist or sexist” or that “the ideology of equity of outcomes is superior to the ideology of equality…of opportunities.” It would also ban school boards from hiring anyone “with the job title of equity director or diversity director or a substantially similar title.”
Williams cribbed most of his bill, including the part that refers to “the first Lincoln-Douglas debate,” from a law that passed in Texas last fall. Both bills include a provision even more disturbing than the swapping of Steven Douglas for Frederick Douglass: one that prohibits school boards from requiring teachers to cover any current event or “controversial issue of public policy or social affairs.” Teachers that choose to do so must represent multiple competing viewpoints on the issue, “without giving deference to any one perspective.”
Bills like these lead to huge embarrassments, like teaching “both sides” of slavery and the Holocaust, or teaching about Nazism, fascism, and Marxism without taking sides.
As a rule of thumb, legislators should leave the teaching of history and science and literature to teachers, historians, scientists, and literature experts.
You can’t legislature truth, and you can’t allow poorly educated legislators to dictate curriculum that will set students back a generation or more.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
Ha, ha, ha, ha . . . Those folks have just banned teaching about the Bible in their public schools. The Bible previously could be taught in social studies classes but now, nope, too divisive. And if they think teaching the Bible is not divisive, I suggest they go ahead and try and see. Even non-Christian will rise up against it, and, oh, those people supporting the Constitution, too.
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If you do not believe that Bible is a divisive subject, count the number of protestant denominations.
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Some profs at Gordon College, a theological seminary, concluded that there were more than 30,000.
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I am not surprised. After all, 45 seemed to think Frederick Douglass was still alive—and trending!
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LOL. Exactly. The same guy who thought that we should send astronauts to the sun, that we ought to try injecting disinfectants, that Denmark would be interested in selling Greenland to us, that the states would agree to substituting Trump electors for the popular vote, and that the Continental Army captured the British airports.
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Geez. Forgot to mention Trump’s belief, reiterated several times, that steal airplanes were actually invisible. Good grief. Child man in the promised land, DT.
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cx: stealth airplanes
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I thought steal airplanes were the ones used to fly in ballots for the steal in the last election.
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LOL!
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Sending astronauts to the sun is actually not a problem.
The only issue is getting them back.
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“The only issue is getting them back.”
Haaa!!!!
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And someone once showed me a piece of material out if which stealth planes are made. I will attest to the fact that it actually was invisible.
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it actually was invisible
Haaa again!
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Similarly, injecting disinfectants is a perfectly feasible proposal.
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Yes, if you inject disinfectants, then you will no longer have to worry about your Covid.
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SDP, does Ivermectin work? I just discovered some in my dog’s anti-diarrhea medicine.
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And who can blame Trump for wanting to buy Greenland?
It looks absolutely gigantic on most maps, bigger than the US and rivaling the entire continent of Africa.
But alas, in reality, it’s only about 1/5 the size of the US and about 1/15 the size of Africa.
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And Antarctica looks even more gigantic. it’s a wonder Trump didn’t want to buy that as well.
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Note to Trump voters:
If you are looking for it, Greenland is not green on the map (or in reality either)
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That last note is for Marjorie Taylor Green as well.
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Greenland
Greenland — send her there!
Marjorie Taylor Green
Out her from our hair!
Make her Greenland dean
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Regarding Trump’s new social media network, “Truth Social”
DT: So, what should I call the new network?
VLAD: Well, in the old days, we called the propaganda organ Pravda.
DT: OK, Pravda.
VLAD: No, Donald. It means “Truth” in Russian.
DT: You want me to call it “Truth in Russian”?
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“You could be standing right next to one of these, and you wouldn’t be able to see it. Incredible,” he said.
Aie yie yie. IQ45.
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From an old post of mine that started with a discussion of Sarah Palin’s horror about federal tax dollars being spent on studies of fruit flies (she had no clue that much of what we know of genetics comes from such studies):
All this was prelude to Donald Trump, the stable genius who thinks that we should nuke hurricanes, that climate change is just weather, that we could send astronauts to the sun, that Alabama is in danger from hurricanes skirting the East Coast, that windmills and low-energy light bulbs cause cancer, that stealth planes are actually invisible, that a dementia diagnostic is a test of general intelligence, that we need to return to using asbestos in our buildings, that HIV and HPV are the same thing, that the primary cause of California wildfires is not sweeping the forests, that coal and natural gas are “clean energy,” that “the ice caps” are “at a record level,” that global warming is a hoax invented to reduce U.S. competitiveness with China, that we are better off without federal regulation of pollutants of air and water, that exercise needs to be avoided because it uses up energy, and that injecting disinfectant might be a great way to treat Covid19. But remember that Trump has told us that “nobody knows technology like Donald Trump,” and that he is on top of “the cyber.”
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Trying to remember which of the wags on this blog referenced the debates between Abraham Lincoln and Kirk Douglas. LOL.
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Guilty!
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So funny, Callisto!
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I just watched a great Western featuring Kirk Douglas and Johnny (Wilkes) Booth called “A Gunfight”.
Booth won. He was very fast and got a lot of cash for winning.
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And Douglas was a very fast gunfighter in his own right.
Lincoln would not even have had a chance if it had been a fair gunfight.
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Just all part of the continuing ed reform effort to “improve public schools”
Public schools get book bannings, speech policing and…private school vouchers.
They’ve spent a solid year on this. Nothing else accomplished for the students they claim to serve. Once they’re finished with this “work” they can move on to their real passion- promoting and marketing charter and private schools and abolishing labor unions.
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The Center for American Progress has a “contact us” form.
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Lincoln met Frederick Douglas in the White House and did have a discussion … would have been a great debate!!!
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Lincoln met with Douglass in the White House three times. At the second of these, on August 19, 1864, Lincoln proposed that Douglass head an operation to go into the South, then at war with the North, and foment slave rebellions and arm the insurgent enslaved, to sow discord within. This was, ofc, only a few years after John Brown was put to death for taking over the Harper’s Ferry armory with an aim to do precisely the same thing. What a difference a few years makes.
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I am pretty sure Tyndal was executed for translating the Bible into English just a bit before the King decreed that it be done.
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Great point, Roy!
Date of Tyndal’s execution: 6 October 1536
The King James Version of the Bible (still my favorite–what beautiful language!) was conceived at a conference King James held in January of 1604.
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I detest many of the recent “translations,” which attempt to whitewash unpleasant historical realities in the surviving Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek texts with euphemisms and outright omissions.
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That kind of thing strikes me as very much like Winston’s job in The Ministry of Truth.
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You are exactly right about that, Roy. My response with the dates is in moderation, alas. Sometimes I really hate WordPress.
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October 1536
January 1604
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Oops. Tyndale. Though given the vagaries of 16th-century spelling, . . .
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an example
There has been enormous debate over the use in the KJV of the word “dominion” in Gen.1:26. Some translators want to make Adam over into some twentieth-century environmentalist, but the Hebrew word so translated by the 70 meant, literally, a stamping upon, as upon grapes or a snake. Putting one’s foot down. These things have to be read in their historical context, like any other ancient writings. Recovering that context is the real issue, and a vexing one.
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This would have been a clandestine operation behind enemy lines.
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Regardless of where the fault lies,
“experts” proofing the discourse
with historical antecedents has
yet to transform the disempowered
to the empowered.
How does speaking of “was” change
what “is”?
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By changing the parameters upon which the is is determined.
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Well, wet the cigar, it all depends on
what the definition of is is.
First there is a mountain, then there
is no mountain, then there is…
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Mountains come after the oceans.
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Just as hilarious was a long piece in Long Island Newsday yesterday about the whole controversy. Besides it’s both-sidesism that was over the top .
Am I the only one who finds the following comical .
“April Emrisko, a West Babylon mother with a daughter in ninth grade and one that recently graduated from high school,said such beliefs teach kids to hate police.
“They’re not teaching about history. They’re branching off and making statements about segregation and anti-police,” said Emrisko, 43. “It’s not healthy for children. … They’re dividing. They’re splitting everybody into groups.”
The debate has caused tension in Emrisko’s own home, she said. She was shocked when her ninth-grade daughter said the U.S. flag was racist and that Americans live on land stolen from Native Americans. Now her daughter is refusing to stand in school for the Pledge of Allegiance, she said.”
“It’s terrible. We’ve had many arguments,” Emrisko said.
Worse, she said, “Both of my children do not like police officers. I love my police officers. I love the military. I make that well known.”
You might suspect that it is the mother the teen daughters reject. It is doubtful a few hours spent probably around MLK Day on racial issues had much influence. You also might suspect that the reporter should have seen the story for what it was, a pile of BS.
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exactly
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I am concerned that these politicians are probable graduates of our current K-12 education system. What were they taught back in the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s about U.S. History? How is it now, they recall our Nation’s story differently? Some hard facts like putting Indians on reservations, slavery, Jim Crow Laws, segregation, Women Rights, Internment camps during World War 2, the Spanish-American War and the US embracing colonialism for economic reasons, or how the US is the only Nation on the planet to have used nuclear weapons twice on an adversary, are hard to “soften”.
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Yeah, for a long, long time, K-12 U.S. history books have soft-pedaled everything. Just so stories.
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But it’s going to get worse when the now Fascist Republican Party achieves complete control of the government in 2025. We’re going to end up with the new “1776 Curriculum.” Part One: Bringing Jesus to the Savages.” Part 12: “The Coming of Glorious Leader Who Shone More Orange Than Did the Sun.”
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Don’t discount the influence of the churches. The two major religions in the U.S. are evangelical (80+% voted for Trump) and Catholic (63% of white Catholics who attend church regularly voted for Trump in 2020).
I guarantee you will be shocked by the research of Prof. Blandine Chelini-Pont, “Catholic Colonization of the American Right…” posted 11-19-2021 at HAL Open Science. Jan. 6 -linked people who are referenced in Chelini-Pont’s research include Brent Bozell and John Eastman. As a companion piece for info, I suggest, Ryan Girdusky’s interview posted at Pat Buchanan’s site. Ryan Girdusky founded the 1776 PAC that funds school board candidates opposed to CRT.
State Catholic Conferences, like Indiana’s, tell us who delivered the school choice legislation enacted- Southwestern Indiana Catholic Community Newspaper, April 2021, “An Insider’s look…”
Indiana state Rep. Scott Baldwin is an example of the influence. He was recently made infamous for the comments he made related to legislation.
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I suspect not all that much time is devoted to these topics today. Nor was it devoted to these topic in the past. A paragraph or two in an American History text. In a class that covers from 1492 to 2022 is hardly enough to cover any issue.
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There was enough time devoted to these topics for people to “learn” lies about them. That’s clear enough.
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Bob Shepherd
More by intentional omission .
Example
1) ” Native Americans objected to being placed on the reservation.”
2) “Africans were brought over for labor. ” (an actual line from a recent Texas text book Hanna Jones 1619)
Of course I would not be able to fill in the omissions on those statements without using a whole lot of 4 letter words.
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more by intentional omission
yes!
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Exactly why you have a lot of adults who are outraged by what there children are being taught. “That’s not what we learned!” It might help if their understanding/learning of U.S. history wasn’t confined to a high school survey course.
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Amen to this!
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Use it or lose it. Education isn’t about memorizing details. The details will be forgotten. The experience is what matters. It’s why education should be left to people who study for a living. It’s also why education should not be evaluated using standardized test scores, why education cannot be accomplished online, and why “learning loss” from the pandemic is a fallacy.
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The fact that Wren Williams, the Center for American Progress and racist Georgia Gov. Talmadge all hold/held positions favorable to school privatization/ charter schools, demands explanation from Neera Tanden who heads CAP.
The Google search for CAP provides a “contact us” form. Let them know your opinion.
Btw- Media pretends CAP is the voice of the Democratic Party.
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Linda,
TheNew York Times and Washington Post often refer to CAP as “left-leaning” and the voice of the Democratic Party. CAP opposes vouchers, supports charters.
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NYT and WaPo peddle corporate spin. Rupert Murdoch peddles racism so as to get voters to elect the GOP.
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It makes perfect sense that the NYT would refer to CAP as “left-leaning” because the NYT perceives far right wing John Birchers as mainstream Republicans. Susan Collins is “left leaning” to the NYT.
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Were you there? How do you know? Prove to me that they never debated. The fact that you can’t find one photograph or recording of them together just proves the scope of the coverup that’s taking place. Because we know it happened. And anything you say against it just proves how much you’ve been suckered by the deep state.
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Greg: I will give you the Truth. Lincoln debated Henry Douglas, my neighbor. You want proof? Both are now dead. You think that just happens? Coincidence? I do not believe in coincidence.
Maybe he debated Douglas McArthur.
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Were they wearing red shoes? (a QAnon tell that let’s them know the malevolence of the deep state is present- you can Google it)
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Douglas Fairbanks, Jr.
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Lincoln debated all these Douglases. He was a national forensics champion, after all. Don’t believe the fake news media! As Lincoln said, “Sometimes you just can’t trust what you read on the Internet.”
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Douglas Fairbanks, Jr.
ROFL!!!!!
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Linkedin didn’t debate anyone. It’s just the internet, silly, a bunch of tubes.
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GregB
I see you have encountered a few Trumpanzees in your time.
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They debated! And Mussolini’s grandson, Donald J. Trump, was in the audience with his soon-to-be running mate JFK, Jr!
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Misguided Debates
Abraham Lincoln
Debated the Lord
What was he thinkin ?
It led to the Ford
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The Lincoln Hawking Debate
When Lincoln debated Hawking
He mocked his way of talking
Said Lincoln “You’re a bot!”
Said Stephen “No I’m not!”
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Said Lincoln “History’s long”
Said Hawking, “No , you’re wrong”
(Stephen Hawking wrote the book A Brief History of Time”)
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Said Hawking “Holes emit”
Said Lincoln “Full of it!”
Stephen Hawking proposed that Black holes emit radiation and eventually evaporate. Lincoln didn’t believe it.
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DO I see another Scopes Monkey Trial on the horizon?
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The answer is likely, yes. Five years ago, an Institute was added to Harvard . The person selected to run it worked for Gates as the Deputy Director for K-12 initiatives.
Paul Weyrich’s training manual posted at Theocracy Watch discusses parallel schools as a method to destroy public schools.
The homepage of the Institute at Harvard has the following quote, “There are two rivers (faith-inspired and secular human service organizations) running parallel and the separation is not to the benefit of progress.
The word, progress, is open to interpretation- Gates may think progress is oligarchy achieved through religion.
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The religious right and libertarian Republicans have been colluding for decades ignoring their differences to reach their ends. This will inevitably lead to a schism between the two when the corporate world discovers that their own unaccountable behavior can be thwarted by religious zealots. Hold on! The rides going to be rough.
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