While some parents are disrupting school board meetings to protest mask and vaccine mandates, a parent group in Los Angeles thanked the school board for mandating COVID vaccinations to protect students, teachers, staff, and families from a deadly disease.
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
September 9, 2021
CONTACT: Jenna Schwartz, Co-Founder, 310.994.9764 (c); PSTLAUSD@gmail.com Nicolle Fefferman, Co-Founder, 323.376.6513 (c)
Parents Supporting Teachers Supports Vaccine Mandate for LAUSD Students
Parents Supporting Teachers (PST), the largest parent advocacy group supporting Los Angeles Unified School District (LAUSD) teachers and families, announces its support for the district’s recent approval for a COVID-19 vaccination requirement for eligible students. The vaccine requirement goes one step further to ensure the health and safety of teachers, staff, and students.
“We have been waiting for this and fully support the requirement that all students in LAUSD get vaccinated once they are eligible. With positive cases being reported weekly, the single best Covid mitigation measure is to ensure everyone in the community is vaccinated, both inside and outside of schools,” said Jenna Schwartz co-founder. California law already requires all students in both public and private schools to have certain immunizations, the Covid vaccination would be one more added to the list. It is imperative that in conjunction with this mandate, the district commits to educating and informing reluctant families about the safety and effectiveness of the vaccine.
“I am thankful to our Board members for taking the necessary steps to protect teachers, families, and students. The district prides itself on having the safest safety protocols and mitigation measures among all school districts nationwide, including requiring that all teachers be vaccinated by October 15th. Requiring vaccines for students was an appropriate next step and one more added layer of protection we haven’t had yet this year.” said co-founder Nicolle Fefferman.
“At this point there is no denying that being vaccinated is the best defense against Covid-19. While some vaccinated people can still get infected, evidence shows that the vaccines are effective in reducing transmission and preventing severe illness and death. Not only that, but we do have students and staff unable to get the vaccine because of underlying health conditions. This policy helps protect these students and staff by building the community’s immunity to Covid. We hope families will feel safer about sending their children to school,” Fefferman added.
Parents Supporting Teachers also opposes the upcoming California governor recall election. Republican candidates have vowed to rescind mask and vaccine mandates for schools, and if successful would allow Covid 19 to spread throughout schools and our communities, putting the health and safety of all teachers, students, and families at risk.
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About Parents Supporting Teachers: Parents Supporting Teachers is a parent education advocacy group in Los Angeles with over 25,000 followers and is the only organically created group of this size exclusively dedicated to parent communication and education support in the entire LAUSD. Visit http://www.parentssupportingteachers.org to learn more and support our shared vision for equitable and inclusive LAUSD schools.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
From the Texas A&M Campus offering no Pandemic Protections, September 8, 2021.
Texas A&M University student has died of complications from COVID-19, according to an obituary published by a Kerrville funeral home.
Kirstyn Katherine Ahuero, 20, died Wednesday, according to the obituary. She was a sophomore biomedical engineering major.
Ahuero was raised in Glen Rose and was valedictorian of her high school class.
Texas A&M University said there were 1,528 active, self-reported cases of the virus among students, faculty members and staff as of Wednesday 9/8, the last date for which figures were posted. The number of active cases on campus was a 176% increase from the number of cases reported two weeks prior.
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Some universities bravely require all students and staff to be vaccinated. Others don’t. What a tragedy for students and faculty.
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That is so sad.
My condolences to her family and friends.
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The people who run Parents Supporting Teachers have been absolute wonders.
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The current problem we face in this country is that a minority of individuals try to dictate the policies which effect the majority of us citizens. Whether it’s who won the election, what schools children can attend, or whether or not vaccinations and masks are required.
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As I commented on in the previous post, they approved a mandate for students but NOT for their own teachers.
Very hypocritical.
https://www.thecentersquare.com/california/los-angeles-school-district-drops-mandatory-vaccination-requirement-months-after-being-sued/article_e983a43a-fc5b-11eb-865e-9bc35cbf463e.html
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“mandating COVID vaccinations to protect students”
Children are at extremely low risk of serious illness from Covid.
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Children are at extremely low risk of serious illness from Rubella.
But that is a mandated vaccination because they can spread rubella to infants and pregnant women who are more at risk.
I assume you are making an argument on semantics only and your opinion about mandating vaccinations for children for COVID is the same as your opinion about mandated vaccinations for children for rubella.
Maybe mandates for all children’s vaccinations should be abolished. 2,100 babies died in the pre-vaccine rubella outbreak in the 1960s, but I don’t see any mention of school age children dying of rubella back then.
Children got the vaccination so they did not spread rubella to more vulnerable populations.
There is a movement in the Orthodox Jewish community to oppose childhood vaccinations because they don’t feel their own children are much at risk. They also do not seem to care whether their own vaccine refusal harms other more vulnerable children.
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I was excited to see a story in Reuters saying that the vaccine for children 5-12 would be ready by next month. I have an 8-year-old grandson who is eager to get his shot.
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Since May or at worst case June there has been no excuse for those over 12 not getting vaccinated. As of a few weeks ago near 30 million doses of vaccine that people in other countries would be glad to have , have been destroyed . Their shelf life having expired once taken out of deep freeze.
Early in the epidemic when the vast majority of deaths were in the elderly there was no way that evolutionary pressure was going to come into play. But with new variants and vaccinated elderly, morbidity and mortality have moved into the child bearing population.
Even when we have instituted mandates their time frames have been far to generous.
Hopefully in a few months vaccines will be available for children 11 and under. So we will be able to protect the vast majority of those who want to be protected.!!! As new variants emerge and they will. Vaccines will rapidly adapt to meet them.
At that point we can sit back and let Darwin have at it.
” Ask me if I care”
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I believe the entire population should be vaccinated. No exceptions. That will end the pandemic.
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A different perspective: https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/why-covid-19-vaccines-should-not-be-required-for-all-americans
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Matt,
You do realize the link you provided proves how despicable Makary is:
“Dr. Marty Makary told CNBC on Tuesday people have failed recognize that the threat presented by the coronavirus in the U.S. is dramatically lower now than during earlier stages of the pandemic.
“There’s a lot of good news out there, and I think that people need to hear that good news right now. People have an entirely distorted perception of risk,” the Johns Hopkins surgeon and professor said in an interview on “Squawk Box.”
Guess what, Matt? Makary’s “good news” got out to Idaho and Oklahoma and Texas and I am sure that the family of the military veteran who died because COVID patients took all the beds says “thank you” to Makary and you for spreading that “good news”.
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NYC Public,
Since you are pointing out the mistaken forecasts of Makary, here is Fauci’s predictions:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/02/17/nih-disease-official-anthony-fauci-risk-of-coronavirus-in-u-s-is-minuscule-skip-mask-and-wash-hands/4787209002/
“People start saying, ‘Should I start wearing a mask?’ Now, in the United States, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to wear a mask.”
“Fauci doesn’t want people to worry about coronavirus, the danger of which is “just minuscule.” “
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Once again, you refer to something Dr. Fauci said in mid-February 2020, before the dangers of COVID were known.
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Here’s the thing about so many who claim they know statistics: none of them have an idea what they mean. Please list Fauci’s “mistakes.” Please. I’m betting they are as specious as most “statistics” used to drive agendas. And there are many, many more instances of Makary’s malarkey when it comes to pushing them than there are of explaining what was happening at the time. Let’s compare those to Fauci if we’re claiming to be 100% sure. Let’s put up your certainty today to that of medical experts who actually treat people, not find ways to make numbers say what they don’t. Here’s a fact I don’t need statistics to interpret: everyone who is eligible to be vaccinated and decides not to is putting everyone else at needless risk.
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Greg, I completely agree. The only way to end the pandemic is universal vaccination.
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“there has been no excuse for those over 12 not getting vaccinated”
Maybe read a bit:
https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/marty-makary/93029
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https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/why-covid-19-vaccines-should-be-required-for-all-americans
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As a subscriber to MedPage Today, I can share a few personal observations. First of all, it is a good source of scientific information. It is a very dubious source of editorial or opinion information. They tend to hire columnists and writers who veer toward libertarian or right wing views of medical practice. Makary is representative of the people he hires. Here’s a great example of why no one should take him seriously at all: https://www.wsj.com/articles/well-have-herd-immunity-by-april-11613669731. He has downplayed every aspect of this pandemic and has often been at odds with the statisticians at Johns Hopkins, his employer.
Like so many idiots out there with medical or legal backgrounds who downplay every single aspect of the pandemic for economic or selfish reasons, reader beware. Based on the little Matt has posted, he seems to have an agenda to peddle to this website about which he likely knows nothing. I’m guessing he’s an “economist.”
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“But given the case-report level rarity of a healthy child dying of COVID-19, I would not recommend a two-dose vaccine regimen for a healthy child ages 0 to 12 years until we have more data.”
How many dead children from Covid (not to mention other serious issues of having contracted it) will it take to change your mind? Is 500 too many? How about 1,000?
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The UK and Norway are recommending a single-shot vaccine regiment for healthy children age 12-15. Contrary to the opinions of some of this blog’s esteemed virologists and pediatricians, it’s not a crazy policy.
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MedPage Today also has Vinay Prasad columns. He’s John Arnold’s bought toy and is a sure fire source of arrogant, pretentious b.s. that cloaks right wing talking points in quasi-liberal language.
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What the data show: https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/01/us/us-covid-kids-data/index.html
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How many times now have we heard we will have herd immunity by _____?
Must be nice to not only be certain that herd immunity is possible with covid (which may not be the case if vaccine resistant strains of the virus develop) but to predict the actual date on which it will be achieved, as some “experts” are now doing.
These people are the present day equivalent of Nostradamus.
Virustradamus
Nostradamus
Predicts The End
Virustradamus
Predicts the trend
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“Virustradamusturbation”
Virustradamus’
Mathturbate
“End of virus
On this date”
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“The UK and Norway are recommending a single-shot vaccine regiment for healthy children age 12-15. Contrary to the opinions of some of this blog’s esteemed virologists and pediatricians, it’s not a crazy policy.”
I have not seen any people on this blog — whether they are esteemed virologists and pediatricians or not — posting about how a single shot vaccine regimen for healthy children age 12-15 is “crazy policy”. It may not be the preferred policy, but it certainly is a plausible policy.
(By the way, the Johnson and Johnson shot is a “single-shot vaccine”, fyi, and the US recommended that, too).
Should we assume this is just another dishonest exaggeration designed to mischaracterize and attack those who believe in reasonable mitigation policies to stop the spread of COVID by those who seem unable to look beyond their own privilege?
The exaggerated misinformation promoted by those who believe it is their mission to oppose measures to slow the spread of COVID was seen from the beginning – including the privileged folks who told us we would have herd immunity last spring. No one should be surprised at these people’s ethics, given that one of their researchers was very angry at the reporter who refused to cover up that his own wife was (improperly) recruiting parents from their kids’ affluent private school to participate in a study to “prove” that so many people in Santa Clara County had already been exposed to COVID with no ill effects at all so everything should be open again as usual.
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GregB,
Haha. No agenda to peddle, just putting out a different perspective. Malarky was wrong about herd immunity, yes. Let’s count how mistakes Fauci has made.
Oh and thanks for the personal attack. (And I’m 100% sure I know more about statistics than you do)
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Fauci followed the science and as more information was discovered, corrected his mistakes (which you exaggerate).
If you can cite where the herd immunity folks like Marty Makary admitted they were wrong and were just pulling information out of their hat or improperly using their wives to recruit acquaintances for COVID antibody studies, please note it here.
Sounds as if you are desperately trying to discredit the people who do real science and ignore the many faulty claims (not retracted) of those from the “herd immunity” “COVID is just like the flu” scientific hacks.
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It seems that despite their differences, Matt and Greg agree on at least one thing:
That calling someone an economist is a personal attack.
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SomeDam Poet,
While I know your post is light-hearted:
It’s a personal attack to attempt to find personal information to discredit an opposing argument.
If he would have just said, I think Malarky is not credible and here’s why and left it at that, that’s fine.
But he brings in this “economist” stuff, suggesting I’m pushing an agenda, etc.
Whatever happened to tolerating (though not necessarily agreeing with) different points of view?
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NYC Public,
“Makary said Tuesday he believes “the concept of herd immunity was one that got misinterpreted as eradication.” He noted that he acknowledged in the op-ed that the coronavirus will be around for decades.”
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/08/dr-marty-makary-americans-have-distorted-perception-of-covid-risk.html
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The US is approaching herd immunity, experts say
by BROOKE CONRAD, Sinclair Broadcast Group
Friday, June 11th 2021
“Marty Makary, Johns Hopkins University professor of public health, suggests we’ve already reached herd immunity.
Some 80% to 85% of American adults are immune to the virus,” Makary wrote this week in the Wall Street Journal. “More than 64% have received at least one vaccine dose and, of those who haven’t, roughly half have natural immunity from prior infection.
Makary continues: “With more than 8 in 10 adults protected from either contracting or transmitting the virus, it can’t readily propagate by jumping around in the population,” he said. “In public health, we call that herd immunity, defined broadly on the Johns Hopkins Covid information webpage as ‘when most of a population is immune.’ It’s not eradication, but it’s powerful.”
Oops!
These scientists care more about promoting themselves and having right wing news outlets promote their ideas than they do about all the people who have died because they kept giving legitimacy to the COVID deniers while knowing all the while that the powerful people they worshipped would always get access to the medical treatment while others died waiting. And those people didn’t just die of COVID but died because the reprehensible herd immunity promoters decided it didn’t matter if hospitals were overwhelmed with cases and people could not get treatment for a myriad of illnesses.
Their mantra seems to be that the only people whose lives matters are those who live the same privileged lives they do and will always demand access to the best medical treatment while others suffer from the promotion of the ideas that they endorsed.
It’s much too late for them to claim they didn’t intend their ideas to be used that way and how can you blame them for capitalizing on their ideas being used that way?
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Accidentally posted this is the wrong place:
Matt, I don’t think the CNBC link says what you want us to believe it says. If anything, it makes Marty Makary look like a hack who too many people believed.
From CNBC, June 8, 2021
“Dr. Marty Makary told CNBC on Tuesday people have failed recognize that the threat presented by the coronavirus in the U.S. is dramatically lower now than during earlier stages of the pandemic.
“There’s a lot of good news out there, and I think that people need to hear that good news right now. People have an entirely distorted perception of risk,” the Johns Hopkins surgeon and professor said in an interview on “Squawk Box.”
He and his pals were so wrong that the next few months after he said this had enormous numbers of additional deaths.
Matt, why don’t you find me a cite where Makary begs people to get vaccinated, practice social distancing, or wear masks?
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“Makary [aka Virustradamus] said Tuesday he believes “the concept of herd immunity was one that got misinterpreted as eradication.”
Pure coincidence, of course, but that is actually the typical response of a psychic when they are called out on a wrong prognostication.
Wrong like the one made by Makary in Feb 2021 (early in the vaccination campaign and before much of anything was known about natural Immunity from previous covid infection) in the article linked by Greg
“There is reason to think the country is racing toward an extremely low level of infection. As more people have been infected, most of whom have mild or no symptoms, there are fewer Americans left to be infected. At the current trajectory, I expect Covid will be mostly gone by April, allowing Americans to resume normal life.”
“We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April” by Marty Makary (Feb 18,2021, Wall Street Journal)
Not sure whether it was intentional, but I think you had his name spelled right in your comments at 12;25 and 1:11
Malarky
PS if you actually understand statistics , then you surely appreciate that making very specific predictions based on minimal data and about a highly uncertain issue like the spread (and possible mutation) of SARSCOV2 is a fool’s errand and essentially devoid of meaning. It’s not legitimate statistics, but mathturbation.
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“Contrary to the opinions of some of this blog’s esteemed virologists and pediatricians, it’s not a crazy policy.”
…said the esteamed 🚂 lawyerologist.
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“Unherd Immunity”
“Predictors” are like psychics,
This cannot be denied.
Cuz if, by chance, they get it right,
It’s greatly AMPLIFIED!!
But mostly, they just get it wrong,
And utter not a word
For them to somehow point this out
Would really be unherd
And when their goof’‘s so blatant
They really can’t ignore
They simply claim “You misconstrued”
My meaning at its core”
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Humorous aside:
I wrote that some time ago and it was originally titled “Economists are like psychics”
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Another humorous aside:
The line “Would really be unheard” was actually in the original version, albeit with the different spelling.
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Then again, some economists might fail to see the humor.
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NYC public,
“Matt, why don’t you find me a cite where Makary begs people to get vaccinated, practice social distancing, or wear masks?”
He says this about vaccines in the very first link I posted.
https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/why-covid-19-vaccines-should-not-be-required-for-all-americans
“The vaccines are so good at protecting against death from COVID-19 that those who are immune can feel good about living life without having to worry about becoming severely ill.”
“Those who choose not to get vaccinated are making a poor health decision at their own individual risk.”
“if someone does not have natural immunity from prior infection, then they should immediately go out and get the vaccine.”
Also, I don’t “want you to believe” anything. I’m simply putting a different viewpoint out there.
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No, you are trying to exonerate one of the so-called experts who just this past June said:
“people have failed recognize that the threat presented by the coronavirus in the U.S. is dramatically lower now than during earlier stages of the pandemic.
“There’s a lot of good news out there, and I think that people need to hear that good news right now. People have an entirely distorted perception of risk,” the Johns Hopkins surgeon and professor said…”
Makery was wrong. And I still didn’t hear you or he apologize for helping to harm so many people.
Biden waited many months to mandate vaccines while Makery and his pals were working hard to convince right wing Americans that they had nothing to worry about.
Hey, Makery should be very proud of himself because clearly so many people believed that they had nothing to worry about, just like he made very clear in June.
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Then you get family members who think they have permanent immunity and don’t need the vaccine because that already had covid.
I heard the experts on Fox cite that fact more than once.
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You asked me to provide evidence of Makary promoting vaccines. I did that.
Makary was wrong in his prediction. I am not trying to exonerate anyone.
Fauci was wrong with his prediction, calling the risk of coronavirus “just miniscule”: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/02/17/nih-disease-official-anthony-fauci-risk-of-coronavirus-in-u-s-is-minuscule-skip-mask-and-wash-hands/4787209002/
I’m not sure what other point you are trying to make.
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I don’t understand the point you are making about Dr. Fauci. He underplayed the seriousness of the pandemic in mid-February 2020, before most people knew there was a grave risk. As soon as he realized the danger of COVID, he urged the public to wear masks, practice social distancing, and pay attention to public health advisories. He did not support Trump’s nutty proposal to ingest bleach or disinfectant. For the past 18 months, after a bad start in February, he has been the voice of science and wisdom. Whom do you think we should listen to?
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Diane,
You don’t understand “Matt’s” point because “Matt” has now revealed himself to be a right wing troll who just jumped the shark.
No one but a COVIDIOT or troll pretending to be one like “Matt” would justify his worship of Makery based on articles in which Makery was giving the same deadly advice to people that has filled up hospitals and led to the deaths of not just COVID patients who believed Makery, but to people who have other medical issues but are getting turned away from hospitals filled with those who listened to Makery’s spewing nonsense this very summer!
Even now, Makery is upset at vaccine mandates because when Biden was pushing vaccinations without mandating them, Makery was working so hard to convince people they had nothing to worry about most of the summer, and how dare Biden ruin all Makery’s hard work to get more Americans hospitalized instead of vaccinated!
And there is something truly reprehensible about “Matt” justifying Makery’s hard work in convincing COVID-skeptic Americans that they had nothing to worry about — for the last 18 months — by saying that Fauci, like everyone else, did not have perfect knowledge about the pandemic in the very first months.
“Matt” is likely posting elsewhere about how Trump is the true winner of the 2020 election because of “voter fraud”.
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Diane,
My point about Fauci was in response to GregB’s comment. He stated that since Makary made an incorrect prediction about covid that he was not credible.
I was merely pointing out that Fauci also made an incorrect prediction. You stated this happened during February 2020 when less known. However, there were experts in February 2020 that did make correct predictions about the seriousness of covid, such as Dr. James Lawler:
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/doctor-correctly-predicted-covid-19-death-toll-us/story?id=75524107
“In a private webinar with the American Hospital Association in February 2020, he estimated 480,000 people in the U.S. could die.”
If Fauci is billed as the nation’s top public health leader, and he missed the beginning of the biggest health crisis of the last 50 years, I would count that as a pretty big miss.
But your scoring may be different.
Nevertheless, Fauci is an expert. As to whom we should be listening to – I try to look at things from multiple points of views and different sources. Isn’t that Critical Thinking 101?
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When you listen to politicians, quacks, and ideologues, hearing “both sides” is treating information and misinformation on the same plane.
Matt, are you vaccinated?
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“Matt, are you vaccinated?” Yes, I’m vaccinated.
A question for you: I view a universal vaccine mandate as a legitimate policy option, though it is not one I agree with.
Based upon polling, about half the US is against vaccine mandates.
So do you see the other side (not mandating vaccines) as a legitimate option?
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More than half the US population has had at least one shot. The last number I saw was 73%. The pandemic will continue as long as there are unvaccinated people. I do not see anti-vaccination as a legitimate option. It enables more sickness and death.
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We have tried the policy of “not mandating vaccines” for 6 months.
Matt, that could have been an option had not reprehensible people been politicizing the issue and convincing so many Americans that they had nothing to worry about. Makary, the Fox News “pandemic pundit” telling people how there was nothing to worry about in June and July,
The result is that in the places that most embraced the lies of people who were telling folks that COVID was no big deal, ICUs are filled and people with other serious medical issues are dying because there are no empty beds.
In places where the folks and their Governors believed Makary, COVID hospitalizations have hit CRISIS levels.
“Why didn’t Biden wait to do a mandate” whine the very “doctors” like Makary who undermined the push for vaccines and whose legitimizing of the right wing lie is directly responsible for the crisis level of hospitalizations in southern states.
It could have been prevented without a vaccine mandate if there weren’t people like Makary legitimize the right wing attacks on science.
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And how long does this “natural” immunity supposed to last?
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Ask Virustradamus [Aka Marty Malarkey]
Heard Immunity
I heard there’ll be immunity
Within the whole community
Before the flowers of May
What more is there to say?
My Covid Ball is telling me
That “Everything is peachy”, see?
That “Things are looking bright”
So let’s go fly a kite
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flos56,
That’s the problem. No one knows how long natural immunity lasts, and no one knows how long immunity from the vaccine lasts:
https://newsroom.clevelandclinic.org/2021/06/09/cleveland-clinic-statement-on-previous-covid-19-infection-research/
“We do not know how long the immune system will protect itself against re-infection after COVID-19, as our study only looked at individuals over a five-month period, or how well-protected previously infected individuals are against variants.”
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/faq.html
“We don’t know how long protection lasts for those who are vaccinated.”
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Matt,
By your and Makery’s standards, US schools should eliminate all vaccine requirements, period. Correct?
Because every one of your “arguments” could be made about many required vaccines.
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NYC Public,
I’m having trouble following your train of thought – talking about Trump, trolls, etc.
One of the points Makary made was about natural immunity (not vaccinating those who have already had covid). There was a new article published just yesterday in the British Medical Journal that looked at this issue:
https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2101
““If natural immunity is strongly protective, as the evidence to date suggests it is, then vaccinating people who have had covid-19 would seem to offer nothing or very little to benefit, logically leaving only harms—both the harms we already know about as well as those still unknown,” says Christine Stabell Benn, vaccinologist and professor in global health at the University of Southern Denmark.”
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An article by a freelance journalist that quotes Makary without any mention of how he had been wrong so many times before? As if Makary is a person of great expertise and truthfulness who should always be believed?
I would seriously question any journalist who presented Donald Trump as an “expert” in Afghanistan policy and quoted Trump about how his plan for the withdrawal for Afghanistan would have left Afghanistan with a strong democracy, women in charge, and the Taliban disappearing, with no loss of life. And if the journalist presented Trump as an expert without any mention about how Trump has a long history of dishonesty and his Afghanistan “plan” exists only his mind, right next to Trump’s “perfect” plan to replace Obamacare, then I can certainly understand why uneducated folks would take Trump seriously, just like you take gastrointestinal surgeons who regularly appear on Fox News to tell people they have nothing to worry about seriously.
The full up ICU beds in southern states are at crisis level, filled with people like you, who believed what they heard on Fox News and other right wing news sources.
I read the article, and the same article could be written about measles, mumps, rubella and chicken pox about how people who got the disease have a strong immunity. Should we get rid of vaccines?
I noticed that Makary makes no distinction between someone who had a single positive COVID test with no symptoms, someone who had a single positive antibody test with no symptoms, and someone who had a serious case of COVID and recovered and now has strong antibodies.
Today the NYT found that just in 2 months, 16,000 additional Americans died because so many believed Makary and his enablers. Nearly 12,000 of those deaths were in red states, with low vaccination rates.
But Makary is so smart, and he knows that the same article could be written about rubella! Or chicken pox! People who get rubella don’t need to be vaccinated so let’s not require vaccinations anymore. Or maybe that’s not his point but he just wants his listeners to believe it because he thinks that the hospitals need more patients and he is worried that the ICU beds might go empty.
Or maybe he has a “plan” — just like those other non-existent plans that right wingers like him promote — in which every American is required to be tested for antibodies, and thoe antibody tests are assumed to be absolutely accurate and anyone who has antibodies to COVID — or maybe just to the common cold — would be exempt from vaccination. That could really work, just like all of Makary’s other ideas that are working so well to increase hospitalizations.
And we all know that antibody test is so perfect that the researcher’s wife helped him recruit people from their kids’ school to participate.
Did that researcher tell everyone in his study — especially the parents who were pals with his wife — that they should not get the vaccine if they had a positive antibody test? Or did that Stanford researcher know that was terrible medical advice?
The irony of those who see some great harm in people having bad outcomes from vaccination but aren’t concerned with a bad outcome when an additional 12,000 Americans die of COVID in 2 months and others are dying because they can’t get a hospital bed for a different illness.
That isn’t science. It is politics.
And if people like you and Makary had not politicized this issue from the beginning — with Makery being wrong over and over and over again since he started presenting himself as an “expert” in early 2020.
Admirable people get things wrong, acknowledge their error, and work to correct their mistakes. Bernie Sanders. Diane Ravitch.
Corrupt and dishonest people get things wrong and double down and insist that their past mistakes never happened and continue to promote things that aren’t true.
Trolls pretend there is no difference – that a Bernie Sanders or Diane Ravitch are no different than a Donald Trump because they all “got things wrong”.
That makes you a troll. Your attempt to exonerate Makery’s 18 months of being wrong as no different than Fauci being wrong at the beginning of the pandemic is typical of right wing propagandists trying to exonerate their most reprehensible and dishonest political leaders.
Makary owes a huge apology to the thousands of people whose loved ones died because they believed they didn’t need the vaccination because so many people were telling them the pandemic was no big deal.
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NYC,
So now this journalist is part of a conspiracy? And why do you keep mentioning Trump – you do realize he lost the election?
Makary was interviewed because he is a professor of medicine at John Hopkins and has a long list of credentials: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marty_Makary
If you don’t view him as credible, that’s your prerogative. You say he has been “wrong over and over and over again” without presenting any evidence. Was he wrong about natural immunity? The only study available so far says he was correct.
There were many other experts interviewed in the piece that you seemed to gloss over. Are they all right-wing conspirators as well?
All you’re doing is saying anyone who disagrees with you is wrong, evil, not credible, etc. Do you not know how to debate as opposed to just attacking people?
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Matt,
Not sure why you keep overlooking the direct quotes of Makary being wrong that I took from the very articles you kept citing as the reason I should admire him as much as you do.
If you view him as credible despite the many quotes where he was wrong just this past summer in the very articles you cite, then it is you who seems to doubt journalists.
We both agree that other credible people have said that people who have strong antibodies to COVID are immune just like people who have strong antibodies to mumps, measles and rubella are immune.
Not sure why you are focusing on something we both agree is true — that if one has very strong antibodies to COVID or measles or mumps or rubella because they had that illness, they would have a strong immunity to it.
Where we clearly disagree is why you oppose vaccines mandates for all diseases in which people who get the disease and have strong antibodies are immune. Surely you aren’t singling out COVID for political gain, and you oppose all vaccine mandates for all diseases in which people who get the disease and have strong antibodies are immune.
Maybe you can explain why your point of view is any different from parents who don’t want to vaccinate their children for any diseases since children who get those diseases and survive have strong antibodies to it.
Are you suggesting that Makary is endorsing a very credible antibody test that you believe should be mandated for all people who do not want to be vaccinated, and any person who has any antibodies whatsoever, regardless of how small, should be free to go about interacting with the sickest COVID patients and then going to crowded indoor venues without masks and breathing on as many people as they want, based on the results of the Makary-endorsed antibody test you seem to believe exists?
What is it exactly that you want, aside from obviously approving of the overfilled ICU beds full of people who believed Makary a short time ago when Makary told them not to worry because people who weren’t as smart as Makary were exaggerating the dangers?
Are you endorsing some mandated COVID antibody test? Or should we just continue the way we are going because you agree with Makery that losing another 12,000 lives and hospitals having to turn away patients with other diseases is the kind of outcome that tells you that Makery was right.
I cited quotes from Makary from the same articles you posted. Makary was wrong and he was wrong over and over again. Please don’t call the journalists who quoted Makary liars now just because they quoted Makary correctly and Makary was telling folks not to worry and his advice was believed.
I’m not interesting in your trolling. I’m not interested in hearing you whining about being a victim because you can’t defend Makary.
But I do love people who say if we just keep doing the same thing that caused an additional 12,000 Americans to die in the last 2 months, all will be well. Given that Makary has been saying don’t worry since the pandemic has begun, I suggest it is time for you to stop citing him.
And thank you for the link: Makary “practices surgical oncology and gastrointestinal laparoscopic surgery at the Johns Hopkins Hospital, is Mark Ravitch Chair in Gastrointestinal Surgery at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine”
You should feel free to quote Makary when we are discussing US policy about gastrointestinal laparoscopic surgery. I don’t think Makary has been constantly wrong about how to do those surgeries and advised policies that have caused thousands of deaths, but if that is the case, I would advise you stop quoting Makary on gastrointestinal laparoscopic surgery as well as on vaccines.
What is it you want? No vaccine mandates for any illness, like some anti-vax folks like Orthodox Jews support? Or just for the ones the right wing decided to politicize because the deaths of many people and overfilled ICU beds don’t matter to you?
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I find it interesting that Makary hasn’t endorsed mandatory antibody testing for all people who don’t want the vaccine. That would be a policy that someone interested in saving lives and not interested in being on Fox News as an “expert” might endorse if they really believed that having antibodies meant that you could neither get nor pass along COVID.
But Matt, do you endorse mandatory antibody testing for anyone who doesn’t want the vaccine? Or was that just a talking point for you because you know there would be no viable way to do it or your handlers wouldn’t approve?
If you don’t endorse mandated antibody testing, that speaks for itself.
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NYC,
Well, at least you made it through your posts without mentioning Trump. I guess that’s progress.
“But Matt, do you endorse mandatory antibody testing for anyone who doesn’t want the vaccine?”
No. By who, private businesses? That would be illegal: https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/legal-and-compliance/employment-law/pages/eeoc-says-mandatory-coronavirus-antibody-testing-is-prohibited.aspx
Or by the government then? So everyone should be forced to submit their private health information to the government? Gee, there’s no possible problems with that.
“you oppose all vaccine mandates for all diseases”. I never said that. I support the typical school vaccines because they have been around and have been tested over the the long-term. The covid vaccines are less than a year old.
You seem to think there are no potential downsides to vaccines. This is not accurate. From:
https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1687/rr-8 (not from your friend Makary!)
“A protective vaccine can have negative non-specific and sex-differential effects on overall health (3). For instance, a protective measles vaccine had to be withdrawn after being associated with 2-fold higher all-cause mortality for females (4). A partially protective malaria vaccine was recently likewise associated with 2-fold higher female mortality (5). These epidemiological observations indicate that while the vaccines protected against the target disease, they increased the susceptibility to other diseases.”
But of course that can’t be true, right? It’s right-wing talking points! Or it’s something my handlers told me to say!
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This European research scientist is known for her research in Africa with childhood (live) vaccines. These comments are based on her research.
The US has stringent protocols before they approve any drug/vaccine. While I, too, have some concerns about when my grandkids have their turn to get the vaccine, I’m even more frightened by the possibility of them getting Covid.
I can’t base my opinion on random doctors’ comments about the current undergoing studies being conducted. With so many opinions flying around, I’m more inclined to trust the CDC and FDA.
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flos56,
It could obviously be viewed as reasonable to base decisions on the FDA and CDC.
However, FDA approval is no guarantee of safety. Based on the past:
1) One-third of drugs approved by the FDA ended up having safety problems:
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/05/09/527575055/one-third-of-new-drugs-had-safety-problems-after-fda-approval
2) The FDA’s regulatory policies contributed to the opioid crisis: https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/how-fda-failures-contributed-opioid-crisis/2020-08
3) They have approved drugs such as quaaludes in the past: https://allthatsinteresting.com/fda-mistakes
I don’t believe this is some conspiracy or anything like that. It’s an agency run by people, and therefore they are subject to human error.
This doesn’t mean their conclusions should be ignored, but it does mean other viewpoints should be considered. Hence, this is why I look at research by Dr. Benn and others.
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My father was prescribed amphetamines to help him lose weight. He eventually died of a heart attack. He did weigh over three hundred pounds and that was the way they did things in the early 1960s. Today they would have been able to do heart bypass surgery.
That was the science at the time. No drug is perfect (notice the long list of side effects with every script you are advised to take). I’m supposed to be taking medicine to reduce my cholesterol, but my numbers are only slightly elevated (high end of normal) and I’ve decided (to the chagrin of my doctor) that at this point I’ll take my chances. If my numbers go into the danger zone, I’ll start taking those statins.
As far as Covid, I’m not willing to take any chance. I got my vaccine as soon as I could get an appointment and will get a booster if offered. The slight risk of complications does not outweigh the certain risk of severe illness or death.
You can’t second guess the future. Looking back, sure, things should have been done differently with various drugs/treatments, but hindsight is 20/20. You need to make your own best decision based on the current science and other mitigating factors.
However, in a pandemic, my decision affects everyone else in society. By not getting the vaccine I’m putting others at risk. There better be a goddamn good reason a person has to skip the vaccine (not that there is a chip inside or it’s magnetic or it’s an alien plot).
And I mourn the death of each of those misguided individuals who made the wrong choice. RIP
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Beautifully said.
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Matt,
Why is it impossible for you to reply to a post without mentioning Trump or being nasty or snarky?
I really can’t follow your logic since you claim you do support some mandated vaccines that have been around some vague amount of time but apparently there are others that you oppose because you just don’t see any urgency just because 12,000 additional deaths happened in 2 months and there are no more beds in hospital ICUs.
Really, I can’t argue if you and Makary were working hard to convince parents that they should not trust any of the recent pediatrician recommended new meningococcal vaccines until such a period of time passes that is approved by you and Makary. How long is that again? Colleges and pediatricians will now be besides themselves checking with Makary to see when the great gastrointestinal surgeon decides that enough time has passed for the recent meningococcal vaccines to be mandated.
“Matt, do you endorse mandatory antibody testing for anyone who doesn’t want the vaccine?”
No. By who, private businesses? That would be illegal”
So now your argument is that Orthodox Jews and others can be exempt from all vaccine mandates just by saying that their kid has antibodies? Because no one can prove that their kids don’t have antibodies?
We will have to agree to disagree about this — I acknowledge that to you and Makary, it is better for 12,000 people to die of COVID every 2 months and for countless others to be turned away from hospitals with other illnesses until some unnamed time in the future when you will acknowledge that maybe it is worthwhile to prevent 100,000+ deaths. And who better to decide when that time is than the great gastrointestinal surgeon Makary?
And we will have to disagree because you want to allow anyone who doesn’t want a vaccine to simply claim they have antibodies and then show “proof” by pointing to a study that people who had measles have antibodies! You believe it would be illegal for them to have to show proof that they or their kids have antibodies, but you think that is unnecessary as long as they can point to a study that says antibodies confer immunity. I think that you and Makary demonstrate no understanding of medicine when you keep asserting that as long as a study shows that having a disease provides immunity, there is no need for anyone to ever prove they had a disease nor any need for them to get vaccinated!
Schools all over the country should let parents know that Makary says that all they have to do is point to a study that having antibodies to measles, mumps or rubella confers an immunity, and then claim their kids are immune to be exempt from vaccines.
After all, you and I both agree that people who have had a case of rubella or measles or mumps or chicken pox will have antibodies that confers an immunity just like you and I agree that someone who had COVID could have strong antibodies that makes them immune. We can point to studies that “prove” it.
But we disagree on whether that means there should be vaccine mandates based on someone’s word that they or their children are immune. You say that their word is enough — or maybe you are a hypocrite and say their word is enough when it comes to COVID but not measles, mumps or rubella.
I suggest you would be a better troll if you took a class in logic.
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“Matt, Why is it impossible for you to reply to a post without mentioning Trump or being nasty or snarky?”
Then you say “I suggest you would be a better troll”. Notice I’ve never called you anything in our discussions. Nor assumed any of your motives, though you’ve put words in my mouth several times.
I really can’t follow your logic anymore. You’re talking in circles.
But one final question for you: if Makary is so bad, so non-credible, and makes such poor arguments, then what is the harm in him putting his opinion out there?
I mean, if what he is saying is complete nonsense, then won’t people just ignore it? Or do you not have any faith in people’s ability to reason for themselves? Or should they just turn to you to be their savior of truth?
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Matt,
Why do you keep putting words in my mouth and calling me names instead of addressing the facts I posted about Makary? Why aren’t you defending your so-called “logical” reasoning in which you keep citing studies that prove that people who survive a disease have antibodies? I asked you to tell me why the fact that people who survive measles, mumps, chicken pox, or COVID have antibodies means that Orthodox Jews or people who listened to Makary on Fox News don’t have to be vaccinated, and you changed the subject.
In fact, you whined about how I should just let you make false claims and not set the record straight.
Sorry, but when you make false claims about how studies supposedly support your view that if survivors of a disease have antibodies that make them immune, then there should be no vaccine mandates required, then people should challenge your logical reasoning. Especially when your argument applies to childhood vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, and many other diseases in which survivors have antibodies that make them immune. I just called you out on your hypocrisy and you whined about it, presumably because you want your hypocrisy to go unmentioned. Tough.
If you feel that you have a good argument to make about how no vaccines should be mandated anymore if there is evidence that people who survive the disease have antibodies (which describes almost all diseases that people are vaccinated for), then make it. You posted a COVID antibody study to support your view that vaccines should not be mandated for any disease in which survivors have immunity, which I assume includes COVID, measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox and a host of other illnesses.
I challenged you to justify your reasoning and you whined instead.
That speaks for itself. No need to reply to this and play the victim. Either you have a defense for your belief that as long as a study shows that survivors of a disease have immunity, you don’t want vaccines to be mandated. Or you don’t have a defense. But your attacks on me instead of defending your own anti-vax beliefs certainly implies you can’t defend what you are saying when someone challenges it.
No need to reply if all you are going to do is whine and attack me again.
ICUs are turning away people, and you are citing studies that simply say that COVID – like almost all diseases that have mandated vaccines – confers some immunity on survivors. But you haven’t even attempted to explain why a study that demonstrates that COVID is just like measles, mumps, rubella and chicken pox is a good argument for why mandating COVID vaccines is bad but mandating other vaccines that the far right has not politicized is fine with you.
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