As you know, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis issued an executive order barring school districts from adopting mask mandates. Every family should make it’s own decision, he has said. As schools open, the disastrous results of this reckless policy are becoming clear.
AFT President Randi Weingarten tweeted yesterday:
“Just heard….nearly 5600 Hillsborough County students in quarantine…. As a result, Hillsborough is calling an Emergency School Board meeting on Wed. This is the result of the recklessness by DeSantis….why is he banning mass mandates in schools?”
In Tampa Bay, hundreds of cases of coronavirus were reported in the first week of school.
Even though classes just started last week, schools in the greater Tampa Bay region have already seen hundreds of students and staff test positive for coronavirus, and thousands of people are isolating due to exposure or illness.
The numbers were generally between 10 times to 20 higher than the cases that were counted in the first week of school last year, and in Sarasota, school board chair Shirley Brown said the numbers reflected on district dashboards are far below the actual case count.
“It’s actually worse than what our dashboard shows because we are having trouble keeping up with data entry,” Brown said in an email to WUSF Sunday night.
By Sunday, 261 students in Sarasota County schools had tested positive in the first week. According to the school district’s COVID dashboard, 194 students were in isolation on Sunday.
A case count of 261 is already more than 20 times higher than last year, in a district that contains about 45,000 students. The Sarasota Herald Tribune reported there were just 10 cases of COVID in the county’s schools the first two weeks last year. But Brown said that’s not even the full picture…
The Florida Education Association is tracking cases statewide, and said 4,148 Florida Pre-K-12 students and staff have tested positive for coronavirus since Aug. 1.
Three children in Florida and 15 educations have died from COVID-19 since July, according to the Southeast’s largest labor union.
The families of those who died should sue those responsible for making it illegal to enact scientifically-based mitigation measures, including masks and vaccinations.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
Do we not know that the republican strategy with regard to the Covid is that we should just let the disease run its course? Was not Trump on record with this suggestion after he began to advocate re-opening the economy? Why would DeSantis act differently? The Republican policy is to let the disease run its course. We see how this is working out.
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In hindsight, when the Swedish experiment was shown to have failed, we should have started calling it another example of failed socialism. That would have gotten the ignorant Republicans and fairy tale believers to take it more seriously!
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Sweden is a great example of how recency bias distorts perceptions of successful/failed Covid policy.
Sweden currently has a low case count thus is currently being held up a shining example of “How to Covid.”
Though if you were adjust for population to compare Sweden total Covid deaths to the US, 14,658 x 32 is not a flattering number.
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U.S. deaths per million: 1,887.21
Sweden deaths per million: 1,425.12
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I guess those exchanges I’ve had with Scandinavian doctors is fake news. Rather than waste time refuting the lies above, take some time to Google “sweden vs us covid” and check the sources, something the peanut gallery above is afraid to do.
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All you want to know about COVID in the world: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
The prime minister of New Zealand ordered a national lockdown after the report of one case of the virus. Today.
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The “lies above”? You mean the official statistics on Covid-related deaths per million in Sweden versus the U.S.?
People really have lost their minds.
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GregB,
You might want to direct the Scandinavian doctors to the Johns Hopkins website. FLERP’s figures are the ones given there. See https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality
Now of course it is perfectly possible to say that the Swedish experiment failed, but that means that the US experiment was an even bigger failure.
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Agreed.
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FLERP!,
Why would you compare Swedish deaths to the US instead of to Denmark?
Are you suggesting you want the US to have a death rate like Sweden and not Denmark?
Two countries right next to one another had different policies and you are demanding that the US follow the model of the one where lots more people died. Why?
Since the Delta variant became prevalent, the states that follow the Swedish model have much higher death rates than the ones that didn’t.
I don’t understand people like FLERP! who prefer Sweden over Denmark but are so disingenuous (because they know that would reveal a lot about their morality) that they compare Sweden to far away countries with poor health care systems and prominent politicians who are anti-mask.
Just admit you prefer Sweden’s death rate over Denmark and explain your reasoning for why you prefer a higher death rate than a lower one, FLERP!. Is that too much of a challenge?
I wonder if Tim is right about you, FLERP!
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“Why would you compare Swedish deaths to the US instead of to Denmark?”
Because I was responding to a commenter who said that Swedish deaths would look bad compared to U.S. deaths adjusted for population.
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“People really have lost their minds”, indeed! Some people continue to speak in certainties even though the history and experience of the pandemic teach us quite different lessons. The only thing that’s certain is future uncertainty. Knowledge that seems to be on a bedrock foundation today turns out to be quicksand tomorrow. Yet some people are convinced by their own sophistry.
Some people cite moving, “snapshot” statistics and, whether favorable or not, will rationalize some argument of rhetorical certainty. Some people could care less about their fellow citizens, it’s all about “how does it affect me in my insulated world?” Some people claim to be public education advocates but would make teachers and students guinea pigs in some unknown game. Lost minds!
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Greg, with all due respect, what the heck are you babbling about? A commenter noted that the number of Covid-related deaths in Sweden would be higher than the number of Covid-related deaths in the U.S. if adjusted for population. I cited the actual number of deaths-per-million for each country. You called that a “lie” and typed all these other words, too. Please recover your blown gasket.
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Teachingeconomist,
Did the Denmark experiment fail?
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FLERP!,
So we both agree that a country that takes precautions, like Denmark, has a significantly lower death rate than a nearby country that doesn’t, like Sweden.
I noticed you avoided saying the obvious – that clearly Denmark is a model we should follow. Was Tim right about you when he implied you were the sockpuppet who pretended to support Critical Race Theory and kept posting links to the same kind of links you posted as “flerp!” — videos that the anti-CRT folks pass around to scare people about CRT?
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NYCPSP,
I think you have hit a gold mine here. The UN recognizes 195 sovereign states in the world, and so far this the folks on this thread about US vs Sweden per capita death rates from Covid have only compared the rates for the US against Sweden and now you have added Denmark. 192 more to go!
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Greg
FLERP is under the impression that scientific reality plays no role in the approach to the virus — that people can somehow circumvent reality (eg, that the delta variant can be contracted and spread by the vaccinated) and should agree to implement “partial solutions” just because one of those people holds the view that vaccinated people should not have to wear a mask in school (and that how long one must wear a mask is not dictated by the pandemic itself but by one’s own preferences)
If this sounds bizarre, it is because it is.
Pointing out his BS is worthwhile, but I have found that trying to reason with this fellow is a complete waste of time.
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FLERP!,
GregB said that the Swedish experiment failed, and you have to be a liar to deny it was a failure when compared to neighboring Denmark.
I took GregB’s reference to “lies” as meaning the lie that Sweden proved that the Republican’s legislation to criminalize COVID safety mandates was a great policy, and Sweden proves it.
And you seem to be one of those who is very upset at anyone who calls out that false narrative. The proof is that you still won’t simply admit that Sweden’s policies were a disaster compared to Denmark’s.
You have a chance to prove whether or not your intention is to push a false narrative and GregB is right, or if you actually are interested in discussing matters here in a truthful way.
The Sweden experiment failed. You can lie and say it was a success and anyone who doesn’t think it is a success is a liar, or you can tell the truth and agree that many lives would be saved if Sweden had done what Denmark did.
And yes, you are a liar if you make “corrections” that omit the truth and whose intention is to push a false narrative.
Being disingenuous is lying. Is your defense that there is a huge difference between the two?
Was Sweden a failure compared to Denmark?
A liar would not answer.
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Good lord. NYCPPP, I’m having trouble following the comments on this thread now, which seem increasingly unhinged. But let me take one more stab at explaining this simple timeline by paraphrasing the comments.
Greg: The Swedish experiment is a failure.
Other guy: Some people think the Swedish have done well because their case counts are low recently, but that’s just “recency bias.” In fact, if you compare Swedish deaths to U.S. deaths and control for population, the Swedish outcomes are not “flattering.”
Me: U.S. deaths per million are higher than Swedish deaths per million.
Greg: “I guess those exchanges I’ve had with Scandinavian doctors is fake news. Rather than waste time refuting the lies above, take some time to Google ‘sweden vs us covid’ and check the sources, something the peanut gallery above is afraid to do.”
These are the last words I’m going to type about this nonsense here.
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Anyone who doesn’t already know that FLERP! is disingenuous (some would say a liar) will note that FLERP! didn’t answer a simple yes or no question about whether Sweden’s policies are a success compared to Denmark’s.
FLERP! can’t answer a simple yes or no question — were Sweden’s policies better than Denmark’s?
Greg: The Swedish experiment is a failure.
Other guy: Some people think the Swedish have done well because their case counts are low recently, but that’s just “recency bias.” In fact, if you compare Swedish deaths to U.S. deaths and control for population, the Swedish outcomes are not “flattering.”
FLERP!: I don’t want to admit that the Swedish experiment is a failure even when I am directly challenged to do so, but I see a chance to distract by “correcting” a statistic someone offered about US deaths.
Greg said that the Swedish experiment is a failure, and FLERP! clearly knows the Swedish experiment is a failure but is too dishonest to just admit it. Why?
FLERP! isn’t answering my question because FLERP!’s disingenuous modus operandi is to write very lengthy nonsensical replies to questions that can be answered in a sentence.
Sweden is a success compared to Denmark. (A lie)
Sweden is a failure compared to Denmark. (The truth)
It takes chutzpah to pretend not to be a liar by insulting GregB in a long reply instead of acknowledging the simple and true fact that Sweden is a failure compared to Denmark.
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For the love of God, you absolute idiot, nobody was talking about Denmark until you swooped in hours later demanding that I answer questions about Denmark and accusing me of being a liar. Most likely Greg was not reading closely and was confused and shot off a comment from the hip, which is understandable, unlike anything you’re doing here. What is the matter with you? You’re like a possessed person.
Diane, please do me a favor and ban me from the blog so I stop coming here.
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FLERP, I refuse to ban you. But some of the most annoying commenters are in moderation.
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FLERP!’s rant notwithstanding, this started with GregB’s comment:
“In hindsight, when the Swedish experiment was shown to have failed, we should have started calling it another example of failed socialism. That would have gotten the ignorant Republicans and fairy tale believers to take it more seriously!”
I find it beyond believable that FLERP! felt the need to discredit GregB posting that truthful comment by replying to someone else and then attacking GregB for calling FLERP! out for that.
FLERP! still refuses to acknowledge the truth in GregB’s original comment — that the Swedish experiment was shown to have failed!
I cited Denmark to support GregB’s contention that the Swedish experiment has failed. FLERP! still can’t admit the Swedish experiment has failed. FLERP! can write endless paragraphs criticizing GregB and me, but can’t simply acknowledge the true fact that the Swedish experiment has failed.
Does anyone know why the fact that the Swedish experiment has failed would be so hard for someone to acknowledge? It’s not exactly controversial, is it?
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WTF? Is this some survival of the fittest strategy gone berserk?
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This is a pro-death Governor.
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The surge in Florida is due to those on the right ignoring science and following right wing ideology. This all could have been avoided if eligible people had gotten the vaccine and followed protocols. Health care workers are so stressed out many are quitting their jobs. Delusional DeSantis is blaming the outbreak on migrants, despite the fact there is no evidence to support this claim.
Kudos to my husband who collects the outbreak numbers, sits down with his calculator and publishes the local statistics on social media despite all the harsh comments by the radical right. The right wants to party on without any connection to reality. They don’t like the hard, cold facts. They need a reality check.
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Against vaccines and against masks.
At least DeSantass is consistently idassic.
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Oh I guess he’s not against vaccines just mandates.
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Against mandates.
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Not against vaccines.
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He believes in parent choice and again I wish you people would get your facts straight. He I’d not against getting vaccine shots. Please do research and discover your blue state governors like taonfo did far worse during peak covid. Raimondo killed many in nursing homes. Cuomo killed many in nursing homes. DeSantis protected those in nursing homes
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Again you make generalized untrue statements. The right as you purposely discriminate here, also follows science, it’s just not your Fauci science which had not been so accurate had it? Masks help those who are sick for not spreading their germs but then again, it depends on how effective the chosen mask is. Some researchers say cloth masks are ineffective. Many say people don’t know how to even wear a mask. Do you sanitize your hands before you wear it? Some masks are not able to contain the size droplets being emitted into the air, being microscopic. Masks are not the end all or cure. Distance is a more effective approach. As for the vaxx, the jury is still out on that since people still got the virus who had received the two shots.
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I quickly recognized my error myself and corrected it immediately (3 minutes) after I made it.
So why did you feel the need to ignore my correction and act like I had never made it the day after I corrected the error when that should have been crystal clear to anyone who knows how to read? (“Against mandates.” “Not against vaccines.”)
I’ll answer that. Because your purpose here is quite obviously to deflect criticism of Republican governor DeSantis and because of that, you will take every opportunity to do so no matter how contrived your comment has to be and no matter how many strawman arguments you have to make.
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“…your Fauci science which had not been so accurate had it?”
You misunderstand the scientific method, which includes the continual refinement of conclusions, based on examination of new data and reexamination of previous data. Compare Fauci’s changes based on new data with the right-wing cherry-picking of data in order to maintain talking points, or–worse–the ignoring of data in order to stay “on message” and loyal to the Party.
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Not clear to me that this is “the result of” a lack of masking at schools. This sounds like these students came to school for the first time last week already with the virus, got tested that week, and the positive tests came back. The transmissions were likely not at school.
If you want the closest thing to “safe” in schools, then in-person school should be available only to vaccinated students, with all staff required to be vaccinated as well. That would bring huge logistical problems for how to educate h vaccinated students, and in any event I haven’t seen this sort of model proposed anywhere. Maybe some private high schools can try it.
I no longer have any faith that the school system can function during the pandemic, which may last for years.
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How to educate “unvaccinated students”
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I live in a resort community in Florida as lots of coastal Florida is all about tourism. It is where many guests from the midwest and south vacation during the summer. Some of the summer workers wore masks, but lots of them had neither the vaccine nor masks. As a result, it was a breeding ground for Covid that would not have been as bad as if people had followed the science. The average age of people in the local ICUs is 32!
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Among staff at the resort in which I stay in FL 5 tested positive and it is not a huge staff. At least Walmart, Home Depot, and Lowe’s require masks. Still I want the ICU open!
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I don’t know when the Hillsborough schools started, but several of the outbreaks reported in other districts last week, were not likely be from exposure in school, but in the days/weeks before school year started.
Cases that will be reported in the ensuing weeks, have a much higher probability of being from in-school exposure.
Cases, whether they are from before-school year exposure, or in-school exposure cases should be concern to schools/districts/local officials…and yeah that Governor.
One thing that Weingarten’s tweet didn’t clarify the that the 5,660 figure is the total of students/staff in isolation (due to positive case) vs. in quarantine (possible exposure, not yet tested). I saw that figure broken out into positive cases/possible exposure, but I can’t find it today.
Weingarten’s source may not have provided that breakout.
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Whether the recent cases were contracted in schools or not, masks are a proven method of reducing the spread of the virus and CDc has recommended that masks be worn in schools by everyone, including those who have been vaccinate because even the vaccinated can contract and spread the virus.
But then you already knew that because I told you.
It might fool a jury, but your “lawyerly” misdirection game isn’t fooling anyone here.
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Directed at FLERP
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Again you need to research. To wear or not wear masks is not as clearcut as you wrote. There is much controversy & discussion on that topic. Scientists and physicians defend both sides of that argument. CDC had flipflopping info as does Fauci. There is only one truth: uncertainty .
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The science is crystal clear that mask wearing helps prevent spread of of disease causing organisms that are carried in droplets expelled through sneezing, coughing and even ordinary breathing.
Anyone who claims or even implies otherwise is little more than a science denier.
That would be YOU.
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https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/masking-science-sars-cov2.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fcoronavirus%2F2019-ncov%2Fmore%2Fmasking-science-sars-cov2.html
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Not incidentally, this is really just common sense.
Any “barrier” that impedes the passage of virus carrying droplets either out from an infected person or into a noninfected person is going to reduce the spread of the virus.
And since the risk of contracting covid depends on the viral load , masks need not be 100% effective at blocking/catching virus carrying droplets (which is good, because no mask is 100%)
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Ron DeSantis should be tried for crimes against humanity. What an incredibly despicable pseudo-human being. Oh wait, Trump takes the cake for incredibly despicable humanoid/ghoul. Both these clowns have been vaccinated and Trump had special treatments once he did contract Covid-19. Hoping that the folks in Florida vote Ron D. out of office.
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is there a legal grounds case under the theory of “lethal incompetence” here
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against humanity? a pseudo human being? You are kidding, right? Both Cuomo and raimondo should be in jail for how they treated people in nursing homes and they are both democratic blue state governors. I won’t even touch upon Witmer who should be thrown out of office for things she pulled, the latest being caught and made an about face on her explanation for her secret trip to Florida. Whitmer’s attempt to avoid accountability by making political ally Jocelyn Benson the judge and jury in her Florida scandal is as low as it gets in politics…So if you are going to throw stones, remember there are others who you could put in your path…
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Whataboutism is a crappy argument.
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“The families of those who died should sue those responsible for making it illegal to enact scientifically-based mitigation measures…”
Yes, yes. Families looking for practical advice can consult the book “Sue the Bastards” by Billie Shoecraft, 1971, about her health problems and legal counterattack after she and neighbors were sprayed by Agent Orange chemicals being applied by airplane on adjacent farmland in Arizona. She died in 1977, but won a large settlement after suing four chemical companies and the Feds (BLM? Agriculture?…I forget).
Another book by the same title, but published 20+ years later purports to have practical information for the layman.
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Three words is why: Private charter schools
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Ron DeSantis: Idiot
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It appears that his future presidential campaign depends on persuading the public that he is as dumb and heedless as Trump.
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Nailed it, Diane!
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The word idiot comes from the Greek idios, meaning, “one’s own”–i.e., not being able to see beyond one’s own nose, beyond one’s own narrow self interest. The word is therefore perfect for DeSantisssssssss both in its current denotation and etymologically.
This is the opposite of what the great contemporary American philosopher Thomas Nagel calls “the view from nowhere”–having to ability to see a situation as from no particular point of view, and thus with moral objectivity. Nagel’s book The View from Nowhere is the finest work of ethical philosophy I’ve ever read. His argument, ofc, has similarities to that advanced by Rawls in his A Theory of Justice.
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In DeSantass’ case, the applicable Greek word is “idiass”: Not being able to see beyond one’s own ass.
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Really? with no explanation? The idiots are cuomo, witmer, raimondo….these people did a whole lot worse….
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You make a good point, but the simple explanation for these comments about DeSantis is that the title of today’s blog post by Diane is “Florida: Covid Cases Surge in Schools.”
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I assumed that the explanation was obvious enough. This is a man willing to put his political calculation (he wants to pick up the Trumpy voters, assume the orange mantle, and become president) above the welfare of the people of his state. I am being generous in suggesting that he doesn’t recognize the horrific consequences of this as opposed to saying that he recognizes them but just doesn’t give a microbe on a hair on a rat’s tushy how many people in Flor-uh-duh die of this disease (or suffer the consequences of long Covid) unnecessarily.
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And this response is purest whataboutism.
Mr. Smith murdered his mother.
Really, but what about Richard Speck? or that Golden Gate guy?
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Sprawler’s purpose is pretty clear: defuse criticism of DeSantis and Republicans in general.
Whataboutism is just one method being used above. Science denial is another. These people are so uncreative and predictable.
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Tin foil hat makes me wonder how much DeSantis and his pals have invested in Big Pharma that produce monoclonal antibodies…
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Yup. And ever since I got vaccinated, the chip in the vaccine has been picking up a radio station in Kabul. Lately its been playing only religious programming. LOL.
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The local hospitals are advertising the monoclonal antibody treatment.
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Some comments here make me wonder about how much research is made before people write what they think, without evidence-based on emotionalism and no facts. Here is one example:how much do people here know that the former RI blue state governor gina raimondo, now commerce secretary and a Wall St capitalist who changed the state pension taking COLA away from its 63,000 pensioners with her 2011 pension reform law, was connected to the opioid Sackler family –even collecting campaign money from one of the Sacklers. Again one should not throw stones but if people here are going to zero in and attack a red governor, perhaps they need to know there are blue state governors who are connected to big pharma…Here is a site one can read to see how a blue state governor who is now in Biden’s Admin and for the life of me I wonder how she got there is also one that people should be concerned & upset with…It is a bipartisan issue.
https://www.golocalprov.com/news/raimondos-opioid-link-family-that-built-an-empire-of-pain-is-major-donor
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A bit of background, Gina Raimondo is possibly (possibly) more reviled here (at least among old-timers) than DeSantis.
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I went to high school in Florida (many governors ago). It worth noting that unlike many states, the districts are formed at the country level, not at the municipal level.
Thus, if your reference point is city-wide districts a district like Hillsborough Country (which includes Tampa) has well over 200,000 students.
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As I noted on Diane’s post re Texas, I am reconsidering my annual winter stay in FL. Wonder how many other retirees are doing so? Economics plays a roll and retirees often have additional health issues which require ICU’s. No ICU space, no travel.
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If you are going to throw stones at DeSantis, then you must open your eyes and throw stones at other states as well like RI. I would not single out any state but this column singled out Florida.
Let’s put the facts here and not be so biased as to not listen to them. RI a blue state that was run by raimondo till she got the commerce job, is still with high covid cases. As of today,Tuesday August 17th, comparatively more Rhode Islanders have become infected from the coronavirus than the residents in any other state. And RI has a high vaccination rate.
Here are the facts.
Per capita, Rhode Island ranks fifth in America for deaths. Apples to apples, Rhode Island ranks as the worst for managing the health impacts of the virus.
Rhode Island is the only state to be in the top five for both categories — infections and deaths per capita.
During the past 18 months, numerous mistakes were made that lead to unnecessary illness and death.
Because of failed policies, lockdowns and closures were implemented late causing more health and economic damage.
As a policy, the Rhode Island Department of Health under Dr. Nicole Alexander-Scott made the decision to return those who had been infected and hospitalized back to their nursing homes despite there being clear evidence that this would spread the disease to the most vulnerable populations.
Data from the first American outbreaks in the state of Washington at a nursing home facility and from China clearly indicated that RI’s program was was fully flawed — truly flawed. So let’s not just put the blame of high covid on a red state when a blue state esp. under raimondo as governor, was in locked down and masks till she left for a job in Biden’s Admin. We need no blame here or biased remarks, or insulting people. We need the truth to be told. Thank you.
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“the Rhode Island Department of Health…made the decision to return those who had been infected…back to their nursing homes despite there being clear evidence that this would spread the disease to the most vulnerable populations.”
Does the data allow separating the nursing home cases, and comparing only the cases among school children in RI and FL?
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I think every state has age-stratified data on positive tests, hospitalizations, and deaths.
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Sorry, I should have phrased my question to ask: “What does the data-by-age show in RI versus FL?”
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whataboutism
is fallacious reasoning.
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The BBC has a “Covid map: Coronavirus cases, deaths, vaccinations by country” and the US still has the highest death rate. If you hover your cursor over any circle on the map, you will get a pop-up that reveals the number of cases. If you want to see the death count, click on the word “deaths” at the top and the map will turn red.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-51235105
New Zealand has had 39,615 cases and 26 deaths.
US: 36,506,196 cases and 618,784 cases.
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My daughter teaches middle school in Walton county. She sent me a text yesterday saying she tested positive for Covid. She said she wore a mask but few students wore masks. I’m convinced it isn’t safe to open schools and operate them like before Covid. You are putting everyone at risk of getting Covid. She was fully vaccinated.
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So sorry to hear this!!! Best of luck to her!!!!
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There are, alas, still idiots putting others at risk by going on and on about how there are problems with masks and many are not that effective and so on. THIS IS AN EXTRAORDINARILY IRRESPONSIBLE THING TO DO. Others might well DIE because they followed your advice.
Yes. Masks are not perfect.
Yes. Social distancing is not perfect.
Yes. The vaccines are not perfect.
BUT THEY ARE BETTER THAN NOTHING.
Limit your exposure. Socially distance. Double mask. Try to find and wear N95 masks or their equivalents.
Insist that your schools have mask mandates.
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People like Sprawler, above. The disinformation that they spread puts other people at grave risk.
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DeSanrtis thumbs his nose at the FL voters who rejected vouchers in 2014. Like Trump, Pence, DeVos and too many GOP toadies he really does not care what the voters think.
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