Leonie Haimson, executive director of Class Size Matters, has some advice for Mitt Romney: Class size matters!
Romney criticized President Biden’s plan to reduce class sizes. Haimson points out that Utah has the largest class sizes in the nation.
In some Utah schools, in an ordinary year, class sizes can be as large as forty kids per class.
Nor did Romney mention the fact that he attended the elite Cranbrook Academy in Michigan , which has average class sizes of 14 , or that he sent his sons to Belmont Hill School in Massachusetts, with average class sizes of 12.
Haimson cites research demonstrating that reducing class size is one of the most effective reforms to help the neediest students.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
Awaiting TOW’s comment on this!
LikeLike
Here I am!!! Busy day!!! I have classes as high as 35 at the moment in a 1000 square foot room. Students sitting cheek to jowel. In a 60 year old building, most rooms have no windows. Romney lives up I tony Deer Creek when he’s not in DC. He has NO IDEA what we teachers are dealing with here. Thanks to Leonie for pointing it out.
LikeLike
This sounds terrible.
I remark that class size matters even in college. Personal connection is mandatory in any teaching environment and I don’t know how that can happen with more than 20 students. In low grades, the upper limit is probably 15.
LikeLike
It is pretty terrible.
LikeLike
Romney has probably never set foot in a public school in his life.
He’s a spoiled brat.
LikeLike
SomeDAM Romney as “spoiled brat,” my guess is that this fact would come as a great surprise to him. . . . sort of like Bill Gates coming to understand himself as an enemy of democracy. CBK
LikeLike
CLASS SIZE Smaller is better . . . one of the biggest DUH’s in the history of education. CBK
LikeLike
“Students often better understand and apply concepts in discussion with peer classmates. Traditional classroom environments often do not allow this, especially with large class sizes or when students live far from one another.”
I attribute having smaller classes for my newly arrived ELLs as a main reason that I was able to make rapid progress with my students. I would not have been able to engage students as well in a larger group. Smaller groups allow for greater interaction between students and the teacher as well as students, peer to peer. The increased interaction promotes more learning and thinking in a phenomenon known as the “peer effect.”
Romney is not an educator, and none of his family ever attended a public school. He is basing his opinion on hearsay from Utah conservatives. A teacher from Utah that sometimes responds on this blog that “she would pay good money to have a class under 20 students.” Utah is no model for the country. It is a state run by Mormons that rarely use the public schools which have suffered from deliberate disinvestment.
LikeLike
retired Good insights here drawn from teacher experience.
I think the importance of class size differs from different age groups, personal-social-family dynamics, etc. However, I think the general rule is that, even for adults, the larger the group, the less individual persons feel either an important “part of a group,” or responsible to it or to the teacher. And I don’t mean that teenagers cannot benefit from smaller classes as much as or more than the little ones. . . on the contrary . . . it’s just a different set of questions that they are answering for themselves . . . remotely and regardless of course content. CBK
LikeLike
I just…. can’t even deal. Politically, I tend to be moderate….leaning more liberal than conservative but have voted for a few Republicans. I realize Joe Biden wants to/needs to bring both sides together and “compromise” but Republican politicians and the Trump extremists have…..worn…. me…..out.
No compromise on this. Class size is one of the most important way to ensure young children get more “individualized” instruction (if that is even possible in groups more than 4 children) and time and attention from caring, nurturing adults. Interventionists can even have difficulty tailoring instruction when the group is more than 2 or 3.
I have taught elementary classes with a class size as high as 23 students, and as low as 16. Non-teachers love to ask elementary teachers, “how many student do you have?” The year I had 16 students, non-teachers would look at me and react like I was spending my days at a spa.
I agree with Catherine King…. It’s the biggest DUH in education and shouldn’t need so much effort…or research…. to get people to understand. It’s just willful ignorance, in the name of cutting budgets and propping up private schools for the wealthy, if politicians as intelligent as Romney don’t see the importance of small class sizes and small school communities.
LikeLike
OK. I’m a high-school English Teacher. I have six classes, each with 28 students. That’s 168 students. I assign a standard five-paragraph theme. That’s 840 paragraphs–not standard paragraphs, neatly edited to make them readable, but student paragraphs–wordy, repetitive, full of errors in grammar, usage, capitalization, punctuation, organization, logic, citation, style, manuscript form, etc. So, the task for me is to edit or at least respond to two-to-three novels’ worth of substandard writing, and that takes a LOT more time than simply reading those would.
How often should I do this? Well, the more kids write (and read), the better writers they will become. It’s not unreasonable to have the students write 3 essays, at a minimum, per semester. So, 840 paragraphs per assignment, times 3 per semester, times 2 semesters–that’s 5,040 paragraphs to respond to in a 180-day school year, or 28 per day.
Close to impossible. Oh, in addition, most high-school English departments and high-school principals will expect that on top of that, the kids will be assigned at least one longer research paper–10 to 15 pages.
So, multiply that 5,040 paragraphs by 1.8 or so, to get 9,072 paragraphs, or an average of 50.4 paragraphs per day to be edited or at least responded to.
NOT POSSIBLE.
People who say that class size doesn’t matter (most Ed Deformers) are simply clueless.
LikeLike
What you describe is frustratingly not possible – and a total set up for burnout and a revolving door of new teachers in a classroom.
LikeLike
beachteach I remember being upbraided by a physical education teacher who was taking one of my philosophy of ed classes . . . for assuming phys/ed teachers were of low-level intellect. He was right and turned out to be an exemplary student.
HOWEVER, the anecdote that was stuck in my head for years was played out when I was subbing . . . I was in the teacher lounge when a an overbearing phys/ed teacher came in with a handful of bubble cards . . . and proceeded to brag to the other teachers about how easy his grading was (puke). So the experience stayed in my head and I wrongly generalized it as an assumption about phys/ed teachers.
On the other hand . . . the anecdote still suggests to me how, for decades now, teachers have been marginalized and suffered from a diminishment of their sense of professionalism and fulfillment . . . that came along with the much more “efficient” testing models.
CBK
LikeLike
Bob THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE for essay writing, self-editing, and formalized self-expression, not even 40 thousand correct bubbles on a computerized sheet or card can equate to consistent writing with qualified teacher oversight over even just one semester.
In my view, we began losing the education of generations of children with the advent of bubble-tests and computerized grading.
BTW, the link below is to NOEMA online magazine. There are several essays there, but the one I recommend is entitled: “AI Makes Us Less Intelligent and More Artificial.” It’s about the difference between artificial intelligence and (another “duh”) human understanding–which is what grows so well when we are expected to express ourselves well, and when we write reflective essays and otherwise recognize we are in a “hay, they are actually listening to me” environment, e.g., SMALL CLASSES. CBK
https://www.noemamag.com/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=roundup
LikeLiked by 1 person
Preach it, CBK!!!!!
LikeLike
This. Is. So. Freaking. Beautiful.
From Taiwan’s Digital Minister:
A young boy posted on our CDC site that he did not want to go to school because his classmates made fun of him for wearing a pink face mask. And so the next day, everybody in the livestream CDC press conference, including our minister of health, wore a pink medical mask. The minister even said that the Pink Panther was his childhood hero. As the images from the press conference spread, that student became the hippest boy in the whole class because he was wearing the same color mask as the medical officers.
LikeLike
“Hey, they are actually listening to me.”
Beautifully put, CBK!!!!
LikeLike
Bob
You are absolutely correct (and I’m a retired high school mathematics teacher). As I mentioned in a previous post, writing each week for that wonderful English teacher I had in high school taught me how to be a better writer. As a teacher, I spent 32 of my 33 years at the high school (after 5 in junior high) teaching Geometry…with two-column proofs at both the college prep and honors level. Talk about circular reasoning and convoluted logic sometimes! Smaller classes are an absolute must at all levels.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I routinely have over 200 students in my Utah social studies classes. Reading that much writing is impossible.
LikeLike
!!!!
The art teacher across the hall from me had 40-45 students in every class. So, 255 students. Ridiculous.
LikeLike
Thanks for the math. Why do the powers that be fail to do the math? Are they mathematically challenged? I think not. I think they are morally challenged.
LikeLike
Not only are Utah class sizes ridiculous, but the kids are crammed into rooms designed for teaching smaller classes, 31 sixth graders in a room designed for no more than 24. This was last week, Feb.2021, with a pandemic requiring personal space distancing.
LikeLike
This rich boy from Bain Capital is trying to use McKinsey to excuse cutting his taxes some more by nonsensically letting America’s schools devolve into sardine cans. I am so shocked, so very very shocked.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Well said and accurate.
LikeLike
Mitt Romney’s Theme Song
I could while away the hours
Conferrin’ with the Powers
Consulting for the gain
And the backs id be a scratchin’
While my schemes are busy hatchin’
If I only had a Bain
I’d challenge ev’ry Biden, with McConnell
Id be sidin’
Though crazy and insane
With the thoughts id be thinkin’
And the Coolaid id be drinkin’
If I only had a Bain
Oh, I, could tell you why
The class size should be more!
I could think of schemes I’d never
Thunk before,
And then I’d sit down and scheme some more.
I would never spend a dollar
To educate a scholar
And I’d always cut the funding
For the schools id be running
If I only had a Bain
LikeLike
Mitt lost his Bain and doesn’t know where to find it.
LikeLike
Greed and Debt: The true story of Mitt Romney and Bain Capital
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/greed-and-debt-the-true-story-of-mitt-romney-and-bain-capital-183291/
LikeLike
It’s the Bain of Romney’s existence
LikeLike
SomeDAM will wish upon a star
And wake up where the Bain crowd’s far
Behind: free!
Where class size melts like lemon drops
And kids aren’t crammed down chimney tops,
Not by McKinsey!
Somewhere over our Bain foe
Bluebirds fly.
Birds fly over my Bain foe,
Why oh why can’t I?
LikeLike
I’ll get you , my teacher. And your little students too–” Mitt Romney
LikeLike
SDP– & LCT too– 😀 😀 love ’em. keep ’em coming!
LikeLike
🙂 on the nose
LikeLike
I taught;
35 kindergarteners in the AM and PM classes – interacted with 70 students/day
49 students in a 9th grade English class
35 students in a combined 2/3 grade class
35 students in a 5th grade class
And there’s more … But …
No politician has ever asked me what I thought about class size.
LikeLike
Is it doable to place 35 students with one adult in a room. Depending on the make-up of the class – sure. And that’s the bottom line for some. Bodies in room and data.
Is it the best way to support the development of young learners? Of course not. Do politicians like Romney care? I guess not.
So disappointed and discouraged.
LikeLike
The Utah motto is “The more the merrier “
LikeLike
And in some cases, “The more , the marry her”
LikeLike
I once tutored kids from a polygamist clan in Salt Lake.
Great kids but very bizarre family situation.
LikeLike
Actually the Utah education model is “Stack ‘m deep and teach ‘m cheap.” I’ve heard that since I was a student in Utah.
LikeLike
I had some classes with 45 students when I taught in Utah in the early 90’s, so if classes only have 40 students now as this post indicates (perhaps mistakenly), it sounds like things have actually improved “markedly” since then.
Let’s see, at the rate of 5 student reduction in 30 years, it will only be another 120 years before classes have 20 students. Something to look forward to.
LikeLike
Don’t everyone rush at once to teach in Utah.
LikeLike
We need good teachers in Utah. The attrition rate is getting out of hand here. But I wouldn’t recommend it now. I have always wanted to be a teacher. But if I knew then what I know now, I wouldn’t be teaching. I’m in the dead zone as it were–too old to start a new career, but too young to retire.
LikeLike
It so!!! Mitt Romney needs to tour Utah schools. I can’t distance my students 6 inches, let alone 6 feet.
LikeLike
So sorry. I can’t believe that are having you teach in person without at least distancing 3 feet, which is what schools here are doing.
LikeLike
beachteach I’m sorry . . . and I am all for science . . . the big however, however, is that the mandate that came from Biden’s scientist that teachers can return to school without having been vaccinated was speaking from a perfectly idealist point of view and without considering the contingencies that are RELEVANT to the teaching situation.
That is, she seemed to understand neither
(1) what it’s like to work with children, especially in large classes;
(2) that the optimum conditions that she rightly named are wrongly NOT available for or even mildly convenient for many schools and, again, in classes with 45 students; and
(3) teachers who cannot get vaccinated yet, and who KNOW what it’s like to work with children who are not exactly well-known for following posted directions (hah!) have to live with the fear that they might catch it and DIE or pass it along to others. . . try THAT on for size each time to go to work. It’s very unfair to foist that fear on those who cannot change their situation.
Science is one thing, paying attention to contingencies is quite another . . . that’s the elected politician’s job? CBK
LikeLike
All good points and so true. Thanks for the reply.
LikeLike
A big part of science is paying attention to details.
Given that the vaccines are now available, only someone who does not understand that would have teachers in schools without at least giving them the option of being vaccinated.
There seems to be a lack of common sense on the part of many of these “advisers”.
LikeLike
At least Utah put teachers in category 1b to get vaccinated. I have had my first shot and get my next one next week. Older teachers are already done. But the districts in Utah pit us in harm’s way for MONTHS before, and we still don’t know if we can spread it even after vaccination, which puts our families at risk.
LikeLike
Mitt Romney’s position is based on political ideology, not ed research. He’s not just cherry-picking studies, he’s selecting Auslese grapes.*
riper than spätlese, they’re hand-picked from individually-selected very ripe bunches in only the best harvest years
LikeLike
Romney was born with a silver spoon in his mouth.
There is no changing him now.
He’s not capable of seeing anything outside his very narrow minded world.
Some people consider him to have so much integrityy for voting for Trump’s impeachmen , but seriously, what does that take? What kind of person would NOT do that? And Romney voted FOR the vast majority of Trump’s policies.
A lot of Democrats are taken in by his fakery.
LikeLike
Voting for impeachment is more about bravery than anything else. Of course, just because somebody is brave doesn’t imply any sensitivity for education.
LikeLiked by 1 person
We have extremely low standards for our politicians if we celebrate people like Romney.
LikeLike
The bar for character and courage has sunk very low in the GQP, but I nonetheless thank Mott Romney, Liz Cheney, and the very small number of Republicans who stood up to Trump. That was not easy.
LikeLike
Diane Yes, and let’s not forget those officials in Georgia. . . . and the judges in disparate courts who weren’t having any of that cxxp.
We have developing here a true Hall of Fame driven empirically by the cumulative actions of those who already belong in it, like some who testified in the first impeachment trial. CBK
LikeLike
Absolutely right, CBK. Every judge appointed by Trump who had a vote fraud case ruled against him because—no evidence.
LikeLike
I hated Romney until I watched him during the first impeachment where he came across as a razor sharp intellect with integrity and a brilliant grasp of civics. His elite private education served him well.
LikeLike
Ponderosa: I totally agree with you. I don’t with agree with Romney’s policy stances (especially regarding education)….. but I respect him He is very bright and at his core he is honest and loves this country.
His speech on the Senate floor about the insurrection was spot on and heart felt. He seemed to be almost brought to tears and it wasn’t fake.
LikeLike
Ponderosa and beachteach About Romney: I “third” that emotion.
My guess is that he’s not wholly aware of, . . . shall we say?, . . . his specialized ignorance when it comes to K-12 education, or perhaps education in general; though I would say BY COMMONLY-HELD CRITERIA, he did receive one . . . he’s a far cry from the testing techno-fascists we see in today’s reformers. CBK
LikeLike
So, if Romney’s is so smart and has so much integrity, why did he vote in line with Trump 75% of the time? And why did he vote in line with Trump more often even than one might have expected based on Trump’s support in Utah?
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/mitt-romney/
Please explain in detail.
I am really curious how one reconciles the apparent glaring contradictions.
LikeLiked by 1 person
And please also explain how Romney’s integrity and honesty are consistent with what he did at Bain Capital
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/greed-and-debt-the-true-story-of-mitt-romney-and-bain-capital-183291/
LikeLiked by 1 person
Thank you for that salubrious cold bath, SDP. Those praising Romney for his courageous stands should read the link. It’s a good reminder that not only was he [from ’75 to 2002!] at the beating heart of the WallSt smash&grab that has been destroying our democracy by inches since the late ‘70’s, he’s a consummate liar. Any stand he takes should be asterisked as pure politics. His swan-song at Bain stings: the quick& dirty destruction of KB toys (grrr!) This comment encapsulates our govt’s response to the challenges of automation/ digitalization/ global competition: “In the end, Bain never bothered to come up with a plan for how KB Toys could meet the 21st-century challenges of video games and cellphone gadgets that were the company’s ostensible downfall.”
LikeLiked by 1 person
Harkness tables for me, but not for thee.
At Exeter, Harkness is not a pedagogy. It’s a way of life. It begins in the classroom and extends beyond it, to field, stage and common room. It’s about collaboration and respect, where every voice carries equal weight, even when you don’t agree.
Exeter’s Harkness method, established in 1930 with a gift from Edward Harkness, a man who believed learning should be a democratic affair, is a simple concept: Twelve students and one teacher sit around an oval table and discuss the subject at hand.
What happens at the table, however, is, as Harkness intended, a “real revolution.” It’s where you explore ideas as a group, developing the courage to speak, the compassion to listen and the empathy to understand.
It’s not about being right or wrong.
It’s a collaborative approach to problem solving and learning. We use it in every discipline and subject we teach at Exeter.
https://www.exeter.edu/excellence/how-youll-learn
LikeLiked by 1 person
When I started teaching in Boston in 1975, contractual class size was 45 for middle and high school. It became a goal of our CBA to lower class size. Because we had union leadership that was stable and remained focused on this goal for many years we now have these maximums:
Grades K1-2: 22
Grades 3-5: 25
Grades 6-8: 28
Grades 9-12: 31
There are smaller sizes in some situations – inclusion classes, ELL’s, SLIFE (students with limited or interrupted formal education) and so forth.
But it came at a cost to teachers. We bargained from the perspective that smaller classes require money. Teachers gave up money on pay increases, step raises and across the board increments in exchange for reducing class size. In other words, in order to improve our working conditions and the students’ learning conditions, we reduced our own pay.
LikeLiked by 1 person