Writing in the Washington Post, constitutional scholar Laurence Tribe and impeachment lawyer Joshua Matz assert that Trump should be speedily impeached for his violation of the oath of office.
Trump spent months convincing his followers, without factual basis, that they were victims of a massive electoral fraud. He summoned them to D.C. for a “wild” protest as Congress met to certify the election results. He then whipped them into a frenzy and aimed the angry horde straight at the Capitol. When Trump’s mob breached the building, he inexcusably dawdled in deploying force to quell the riot. And when he finally released a video statement, it only made matters worse.
Simply put, Trump knew perfectly well that his rally on Wednesday was a powder keg of his own creation. But he gleefully lit a match and tossed it at Congress... the Constitution does not require slow motion at times of crisis, especially when the nation witnessed an impeachable offense in real time. Here, holding protracted hearings would be a foolish undertaking, akin to playing a sonata on the decks of the Titanic. The House can and should act with dispatch….
As a matter of principle and precedent, the House must leave no doubt that Trump’s conduct is beyond the pale. He came close to destroying the Capitol in pursuit of his antidemocratic effort to overturn an election; an unequivocal response is called for.
Moreover, there is now widespread, bipartisan recognition that Trump will remain a danger to our national security through his final days in office. His obvious lack of remorse and unwillingness to accept responsibility confirm the threat. So do his pattern of placing his personal interests above the law, and his failure to modify his conduct after being impeached last year. With every passing hour that he has the instruments of executive power at his command, the risk that he could do incalculable damage cannot responsibly be ignored...
The impeachment power must never be exercised lightly. But the House would be fully justified in finding that Trump’s incitement of mob violence against the United States government warrants that drastic remedy.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
The Hill:
In an extraordinary disclosure Friday, Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said she called Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Mark Milley to discuss options for preventing Trump from starting a war or launching a nuclear weapon.
“The situation of this unhinged president could not be more dangerous, and we must do everything that we can to protect the American people from his unbalanced assault on our country and our democracy,” Pelosi said in a letter to colleagues revealing details of the call.
As Joint Chiefs chairman, Milley is the president’s top military adviser but is outside the chain of command. In the call with Pelosi, Milley “answered her questions regarding the process of nuclear command authority,” his spokesperson said, but did not elaborate on what he said.
Still, the revelation of the call underscored the depths of concern lawmakers have as they consider how to move forward after the Capitol siege.
If Pence does not move to invoke the 25th Amendment, if Congress does not move to impeach and convict, then what happens because of their inaction will be on their heads, for it is entirely predictable.
The consequences of inaction could be grave.
The main point us to get him out of office immediately– no waiting 12 days. We’ve watched him entice his fringiest followers to DC and encourage them to siege the Capitol Bldg in order to stop his successor’s certified election from being recorded. We’ve read inside-aides’ report of his storming around WH for 24 hrs in a trance-like rage, focusing animus on lapdog Pence calling him a coward. This guy is unhinged & has nuclear code at fingertips. 25th Amendment? Maybe too complicated to ‘prove’ unfitness, maybe too many acting Cabinet heads to even get a legal quorum. Speedy impeachment is good & should proceed regardless– maybe helps stem the pardons & prevent him from running again. But it’s not fast enough to keep nation safe from this maniac. Hoping there’s some 3rd way to haul him out of the WH like, tomorrow. I gather that’s what Pelosi was seeking in her conference with Gen Mark Milley.
Well said. Btw, under the Constitution, Amendment 25, Sec. 4, the VP and Cabinet don’t have to prove anything. They simply have to make the decision, based on their own judgment.
good to know, thanks Bob
I read this from National Geographic earlier this morning.
“How quickly can Congress impeach a president?
“Here’s how it could work.
As calls for the second impeachment of the U.S. president increase, here’s a look at whether it’s possible to carry out before Trump’s term ends on January 20.”
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/2021/01/how-quickly-can-congress-impeach-president-how-it-could-work/
The Republicans would be wise to convict and impeach Trump because he would not be allowed to run for office again. As long as he is viable, he stains the party and blocks every ambitious Republican.
And can you imagine the next 4 years with Trump (and his family ) on his own tv station fomenting this stuff and the media continuing to cover it? That is unless he’s arrested for one of his many crimes. But even then we are still going to be talking about this guy. I sure hope I’m wrong.
Trumps election win in 2016 has been a true testing of our constitution, but an even greater test is his election loss in 2020. I am waiting to see how everything plays out, but I would be more secure in the outcome if Trump were permanently neutralized. I also am waiting to hear how many of the Trump supporters finally “see the light”. Those who knowingly continue to spout the rhetoric are destined to an unpleasant future in the afterlife.
Hey, get the newest educational tool.
LEGO now provides teachers and parents with a creative way to teach pre-schoolers current events:
That’s obviously a spoof ABOVE.
LEGO didn’t really do this.
6- is more like it.
Also, the sad thing is … if this were real, Trump’s followers would buy such sets for their kids.
What I meant is under six is the mentality of these people.
But maybe I am being unfair to six year olds. And five year olds. And your and 3 year olds.
But probably not two year olds.
SomeDAM Poet: We can officially say that our Great Leader has the mentality of a three year old. He is quite advanced, considering his mental age, since he has the vocabulary of a fourth grader.
Mary Trump: “Today, Donald is much as he was at three years old: incapable of growing, learning or evolving, unable to regulate his emotions, moderate his responses, or take in and synthesize information.”
You would be hard pressed to find a racist, xenophobic, mysogynistic three year old, though. Trump is in a class all his own.
If anyone needs any proof of the mentality — and stupidity — of these people, one needs to look no further than the selfies they posed for in the Capitol. One guy actually posed wearing his company ID badge! He has since been fired (surprise!)
And then there was the guy who posed in Nancy Pelosi’s office with his foot up on the desk. Brilliant! He has actually been arrested by the FBI.
It’s called a coup d’etwit when it is carried out by idiots.
This mob of idiots was led by professionals, the guys in full tactical gear, carrying flex cuffs for hostages, faces covered. Will they be caught?
Professionals at what?
Taking selfies?
If wearing tactical gear makes one a professional, then I’d say the entry bar is far too low.
Even militias need standards.
This is dark humor at its best. Thanks for sharing.
“10621 pieces” is clever.
It is!
LOL, Jack!
Watching this crisis unfold was even more horrifying with the knowledge of what damage the terrorists could have actually done. Especially telling was watching them trying to talk their way into the chamber, and break down the doors. All it would take was one person to lob an incendiary device into that room and they would have destroyed the building and killed anyone present. We have finally reached the tragic yet predictable end (or perhaps the beginning), where the cultists are willing to die for their leader. Trump doesn’t have to shoot anyone in the street. His followers will now do it for him, while he hides and celebrates his sick fetish for attention, violence, and chaos.
One of the best comments about this travesty I have yet read.
Well said, Oakland Mom!
My initial opinion was that Trump must be removed from office as quickly as possible, & that even if it didn’t actually go into effect until January 19th, it was still important just to establish the principle & make a statement that his incitement to supporters to make a physical show of force against US government function (“If you don’t fight like hell, you’re not going to have a country left!”) is unacceptable.
After reading opinions from a range of thoughtful, reasonable sources, I now wonder if such an action led by Democrats would have the desired effect, & might instead backfire, exacerbating already inflamed tensions, & perhaps turning back against us Republicans who’ve been led by recent events to draw a line pulling themselves back from unqualified Trump support. I’m wondering if in the long run the best course may be:
1) Removal proceeding be forgone unless initiated & led by Republican Congress members;
OR
2) We just focus transitioning constructively to President Biden & looking for ways to reach across the aisle, as Biden has said he prides himself on &, in the interest of returning to government by consensus rather than ultimatum, finding points on which to agree with R’s in legislation, even where we could bully our way through with no compromise.
What do we want a removal from office at this late date to accomplish in terms of positive results for the country? If it’s primarily revenge & humiliation of Trump, we have to ask ourselves not, “Does he deserve it?” (of course he does, & worse), but rather, “Do we deserve to become like him?”
Lenny Rothbart: I believe we must look into the future. The next horrendously abusive president will surely be much smarter than Trump. If there are no repercussions for Trump’s horrendous act then that is setting a very bad precedent.
Do ANYTHING and nothing will happen to you. YOU are proven to be above the law and can do ANY GROSS ACTIVITY that you desire.
I didn’t say there should be no consequences for Trump; I’m just wondering if a big Democrat-led push for immediate removal is the most constructive approach for the country. There are other ways available to make the point about his behavior being contrary to American principles, including, but not limited to, censure on the record & prosecution after he leaves office.
Trump no doubts will face consequences under state statutes. That is not enough and slapping his hand with censure isn’t either. An attempt to overthrow the government requires the toughest sanctions we have to offer. If we worry about what his base will do, we leave ourselves open to every would be demagogue that comes along. Plus, we make a mockery of any pretense to being a democracy. Moreover, he needs to be barred from ever holding public office again. You would think that would sway a lot of his political followers with ambitions of their own. As long as Trump is in the picture, they aren’t.
speduktr I wholeheartedly support the idea of Trump being banned from holding political office in the future. I know there are already pending state charges against him for tax issues, & perhaps other things, but there were no state authorities involved in events at the Capitol, only federal & DC municipal. It would be a blast to see him locked up in a local DC jail even for a night for disorderly conduct, next to drunks, bar fighters, & petty thieves (who, I presume, would be thrilled at meeting a real pro).😀 Now that I think of it, maybe that’s the way to go.
As I’ve said in other responses in this thread, to me the main concern is the opportunity this presents to establish constructive communication with previously unconditional Trump supporters, both in Congress & the public, who’ve finally become disillusioned by his active, explicit attempt to impede the function of American government. As satisfying & meaningful as it would be to see him removed from office, cutting short the already brief remainder of his term, I think there’s greater long-term benefit for the country in opening a dialogue across the great divide. If a Democrat-led impeachment attempt, which even now has at best a limited chance of success, were to slam shut this door that’s now open a crack, Trump will have exited in victory.
Lenny Rothbart: “I think there’s greater long-term benefit for the country in opening a dialogue across the great divide.”
How well did this work for Obama? It took him time to realize that there is no getting along with the Republicans who tried to block him on everything he wanted to do. Remember how hard McConnell worked to “make Obama a one term president”?
Having a dialogue with the other side at this time means having more power. The days when decent dialogue meant getting along and compromising are happenings from the past. This is extremely unfortunate.
A lot has happened to change circumstances since Obama was in office &, sad as it is, I think it makes a difference in relations with many Republicans that Biden is white. Maybe I’m grasping at straws in hoping to open a dialogue with at least some Republicans; there are certainly arguments to suggest that won’t happen. Nevertheless, I believe it’s the single most important factor in moving the country forward, & hope it will be possible. It could start with Murkowski, Toomey, & Sasse, who’ve publicly either called for Trump’s resignation or removal from office. Right now that’s a small minority of Republicans, but it has to start somewhere.
I understand where you are coming from, but I think it is more important for people to be confronted with the fact that he committed treason. No one should ever be allowed to do what he did! We don’t make that message clear by charging him with tax fraud. I don’t even see impeachment as necessarily a way to end his term a few days early, which is unlikely to happen given that the Senate is in recess. However, there is nothing to say that the trial cannot continue after Biden is sworn in. I really don’t know if blocking him from holding office requires conviction of treason first or not. If it does, then he needs to be convicted. I also don’t care to give this crook a $200,000 pension for life or Secret Service protection either. Nor does he need a $100,000/year travel allowance. I ain’t paying a dime for his golfing trips! We know how he has managed to line his own pockets at our expense while in office. It cannot continue.
Lenny,
The criterion ought not to be the consequences of impeachment but whether impeachment is justified.
If the President’s role in last week’s assault on the Capitol, while the Vice President was beginning to open the envelopes containing the states’ electoral votes, causing members of Congress and their staff to flee and seek refuge, leaving a too-thin police force to risk life and limb to fend off the rioters, is not cause for impeachment, I don’t know what is.
Meanwhile, Cabinet members, like DeVos, are resigning. That means they don’t have the responsibility of considering Trump’s removal under the 25th Amendment. It is also far from clear that the 25th Amendment even applies.
I understand your point about the importance of considering the presence of grounds for impeachment. I also believe that actions, particularly one of this significance, do have both intended & unintentional — or secondary — consequences that can’t be ignored; if they are ignored in the planning, they’ll demand attention in the aftermath. As I point out in another response, if the goal is to make the point that the President Trump has committed intentionally destructive, anti-American (contrary for any Americans) offenses, there are other options available.
Lenny,
A censure would be a slap on the wrist.
If you are recommending prosecution, yes, it is possible that Trump will be prosecuted for his role in last week’s riot. But a prosecution would be lengthy, and more important, to find Trump guilty, a unanimous jury would have to find him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt—a high standard. The Constitution is silent on the burden of proof in the case of impeachment. So individual senators can pick whatever standard of proof they like. And only a two-thirds vote to convict is needed.
In my view, in these egregious circumstances the House has not merely a prerogative, but a duty to impeach, for reasons I have already given.
Neil, I acknowledge your points, & don’t dispute them. My concern is for the good of the whole country. I have believed for years that the single biggest problem the US faces isn’t health care, environment, gun control, or even who’s President; it’s the extreme, vitriolic hatred between fellow Americans of different political views; all the other issues are connected to this & made possibly unsolvable by it. This past week has demonstrated graphically just how serious that is.
If there’s a silver lining to recent events, it’s that many Republicans, both in Congress & in the public, have finally drawn a line with Trump & said, “OK, that’s it! He’s finally gone too far.” I’m concerned that a Democrat-led impeachment process, while unquestioningly justified, may re-alienate these people who’ve at least now taken a step toward seeing our point of view on Trump. I think maintaining that possible, tenuous connection is also an important consideration.
Lenny,
I get your point. You are very thoughtful.
Neil
Thank you, Neil.
Lenny,
Most Republicans are not reacting negatively toward Trump. After the day of violence, he called in to the RNC meeting in Florida on speakerphone and received a rousing round of applause from Republican leaders of every state.
Very few Senators have said they will support impeaching him or pushing him out. Most of the House Republicans voted not to accept Biden’s votes as legitimate even after hiding in the Capitol for four hours.
Diane, with respect to evaluating the nature & variety of Republican responses to this crisis Trump initiated, I defer to your far greater experience & knowledge as a specialist & DC insider. I wouldn’t presume to question your assessment.
The fact remains that, regardless of their numbers, there are at least some previously die-hard, literally unconditional Trump supporters who’ve now taken pause, finally setting a limit to which of Trump’s actions they’ll support. For 4 years, I’ve been continually wondering, “What will it take, how far will he have to push, before these people who’ve abandoned what previously appeared to be strongly-held principles based on the American ideal, say, ‘Alright! That’s it! Enough is enough! I don’t care which of my issues he supports, the way he’s going about it violates my vision of America.’?” Last week, I got my answer: some Republican Congress members reversed their positions on rejecting states’ electoral results, & some voters began to have second thoughts about continuing to support someone who’d now literally trashed one of the most tangible artifacts of American principles.
I don’t care if it’s a relative few, or a day late & a dollar short; I’m just thrilled that it’s happening at all. The important point for me is that it’s a chink in the wall [yeah, sure, pun intended, why not?] & as such a golden opportunity to reach people who were previously unapproachable. If we can seize & widen that crack in the barrier that’s stood between two camps of Americans, maybe we can start restoring the country from the damage of recent years, increasing the number of participants from both sides.
I acknowledge the significance of the statement made in removing Trump from office a few days before his term expires; for history it would be a deep affirmation & re-establishment of essential principles that were slipping away from us. On the other hand, if it fails, which it very well might unless it’s initiated & led by Republicans, it could set us back even further away from constructive bi-partisan communication. Given the choice — and we are — I believe there’s more to be gained for the country as a whole from working to establish constructive communication across the aisle.
All of what you say is true, Lenny, but there does come a point in time… Can you really think of a situation where a country should say, “That’s treasonous behavior, but that’s okay. Just don’t do it again”? If people are backing off because they recognize that the attack on the Capitol was an attack on our government, what does it say about them if they change their minds because Trump is held accountable? How do you send the message that attacking the Capitol and the Congress is treasonous if all you do is slap Trump’s hand? How do you clip Trump’s wings so that he no longer can be an effective purveyor of disinformation?
Twitter & Facebook, to their mutual credit, appear to have provided at least a partial, but very effective, answer to your closing question. Now that they’ve taken the leap, I don’t see any reason either would walk it back (though anything’s possible).
I’m not trying to excuseTrump’s offense or downplay its seriousness. The fact is that, pragmatically, there’s a significant possibility, even probability, that a 2nd, last-minute impeachment, however well-justified, could fail to result in removal from office, however unreasonable we think such a decision would be. That would do far more to undermine our point than the lenience of a figurative slap on the wrist.
Right now, if we leave things as they are, foregoing the satisfaction of that final door slam, Trump will exit in disgrace before, at the very least, more than half the US & most of the rest of the world. We’ve got that; it’s a guarantee.A second failed impeachment at the 11th hour would be a spectacular embarrassment, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Yes, we would have stated our point on record, that Trump deliberately sabotaged the functioning of the American government by inciting thousands of people to commit a violent invasion of the Capitol. However, speaking pragmatically again, the most dramatic public result would be for Trump to exit triumphant. History will give us a gold star for effort, but we will have lost the opportunity to establish constructive dialogue with disillusioned supporters who right now may be open to hearing other points of view, i.e., “the operation was a success, but the patient died.”
Do we really want to gamble a sure thing (Trump exits in disgrace) that’s a bit less than the ultimate prize (removal from office) to give Trump a chance to claim he turned the whole thing back around, knowing that the factual accuracy of such claims would be totally irrelevant?
And what do you think the rest of the world is going to think if we just let Trump walk? Are the less, long established Democracies supposed to think that if they manage to thwart a coup attempt, they should just let the perpetrators walk? What message is that going to send? Where would we be today if Lincoln had just said, “Never mind,” as the Union dissolved around him?
I don’t really care what the latest extreme right spin is on the Capitol attack. Do we run scared because fanatics continue to spread falsehoods? NO! I hope there are lots of legal heads working on how to call them out.
I am not saying to not reach out to our friends and neighbors who bought Trump’s lies. Most of us probably have family or friends who drank at least some of the Koolaid. I didn’t stop talking to them; I just didn’t talk politics. I didn’t choose to like them before Trump because of their political persuasion; I am not going to shun them now. We have a lot more in common than politicians would have us believe.
Biden is wise to stay above the fray, so to speak, and let Congress and the DOJ handle the legal course of action. He has other matters on which he needs to focus of immediate concern. He has said all he needs to say.
Trump should be tried for inciting sedition. The penalty is 20 years in prison.
speduktr It appears certain that Democrat-led impeachment will proceed, & I hope I’m wrong about expecting an insufficient number of Republican Senators to be disinclined to lift their heads from the sand. It’s they in whom I lack confidence, not Democratic Congress members. I also hope my fears about this shutting a door to meaningful cross-party exchange turn out to be unfounded.
I agree with all your points about the principles involved; I’ll happily join with you all in rejoicing if enough Senators to make 2/3 reverse recent practice & honor their oath to uphold the Constitution, & hope we’ll still be able to conduct useful communication with Republican Congress members & public.
Here is Bernie’s thought on the subject. I signed his petition.
……………………..
It goes without saying that Donald Trump will go down in history as the worst and most dangerous president ever.
Yes, the vice president and cabinet members must invoke the 25th Amendment now to remove him from office.
Yes, the House of Representatives should immediately begin an impeachment process.
And yes, we should convict him as quickly as we can in the United States Senate.
Donald Trump must be removed from office before he incites more violence and chaos. But more than that, Trump’s impeachment and conviction will set a precedent that will make it clear that no president, now or in the future, can lead an insurrection against the U.S. government. Trump’s impeachment will help maintain the integrity of the U.S. Constitution.
But while Trump’s outrageous behavior, and the mob storming of the Capitol, is the issue that is understandably dominating discussion now, we must not lose sight of the unprecedented pain and desperation felt by working people across the country as the pandemic surges and the economy declines. We must, immediately, address those needs.
In other words, Congress must have the courage and determination to simultaneously address both crises.
We must remove Trump from office AND address the needs of the working people in this country. Add your name if you agree.
Because right now, hunger is at the highest levels in decades in this country and the family that couldn’t afford to put food on the table last week still cannot afford to put food on the table this week, and they need our help.
Because the 500,000 Americans who were homeless and the 30 million more facing eviction last week are still worried about keeping a roof over their heads this week, and they need our help.
Because during the midst of a murderous pandemic which is getting worse and worse every day, the 90 million Americans who were uninsured or underinsured last week still are worried about being able to afford to go to a doctor this week, and they need our help.
Because the millions of Americans working two or three jobs to pay the bills because we have a national minimum wage of $7.25 an hour this week will still be getting paid a starvation wage next week, and they need our help.
Because the women in this country who have been earning 80 percent or less on the dollar of what men make for doing the same work they did last week, will still be making less than that whole dollar this week, and they need our help.
Because the hundreds and thousands of bright young people in this country who could not afford to go to college last week, despite the grades and the ambition to do so, still cannot afford to go to college next week, and they need our help.
Because those who suffer because of drought, floods, extreme weather disturbances, disease, acidification of the oceans and migrations caused by the existential threat climate change that was here last week will still be here next week, and they need our help.
Sisters and brothers, going forward and starting immediately, Democrats must not only work to remove Donald Trump from office and ensure he can never run again, but we must also start passing an aggressive agenda that speaks to the needs of the working class in this country: income and wealth inequality, health care, climate change, education, racial justice, immigration and so many other vitally important issues.
We must lift people out of poverty, revitalize American democracy, end the collapse of the middle class, and make certain our children and grandchildren are able to enjoy a quality of life that brings them health, prosperity, security and joy.
The old way of thinking is what brought us Donald Trump.
Our bold and progressive agenda is what will defeat Trumpism once and for all while making the United States the leader in the world in the fight for economic and social justice, for environmental sanity, and for a world of peace.
In solidarity,
Bernie Sanders
One can also look at this from the standpoint of those who see this for what it was: an attack on our government.
If the Democrats don’t at least start impeachment proceedings , I will view it as a dereliction of their duty and a violation of their oath of office. And I have a feeling I am not alone in viewing it this way.
If someone doesn’t believe Trump should be impeached for this and would see his impeachment as a spiteful, politically motivated action by Democrats, nothing is going to convince them otherwise.
I’m still concerned about the very real possibility that, Congress being what it is, despite overwhelming evidence, an impeachment now could fail to achieve the required 2/3 Senate majority required remove him from office, granting him a closing “victory.” Even now, there may be insufficient Senate Republicans willing to risk reelection over something they’ve demonstrated they regard as trivial as defending the Constitution. The fact that such a decision would make no sense & be contrary to American principles would be entirely consistent with this presidency, & would place the incoming Biden/Harris administration at a disadvantage before they even begin.
Based on past events in this outgoing (an adjective I use here with great joy) administration, I think my fears are realistic, & based on wishes for Mr. Biden to have every advantage for a strong start. If Ms. Pelosi proceeds with the proposed impeachment, which appears nearly certain, & sufficient Senate Republicans locate their backbones, I’ll be overjoyed to be proven wrong about the above.
Rep Clyburn said this morning that the House would vote impeachment now but wait 100 days to send to Senate. Senate unlikely to vote for conviction but so what? Trump will be first president in history to be impeached he’d twice.
People do not seem to understand that being impeached, whether convicted or not, is a serious offense. Not being convicted does not mean that the defendant is innocent, only that enough people did not think the facts of the case did not rise to the level necessary for conviction. It was quite clear in Trump’s first trial that the Republicans were concerned that if the public heard all the evidence they would have to convict him.
dianeravitch Rep Clyburn said this morning that the House would vote impeachment now but wait 100 days to send to Senate.”
I think that’s a better strategy than proceeding immediately with submitting the articles to the Senate, & makes me feel less apprehensive about the consequences of a loss, as I’ve expressed in previous posts. It also seems more likely that it could pass at that point, when emotions may not be so raw.
I still hope all Democrats, in Congress & the public, including everyone participating in this blog, will make an attempt to establish constructive communication with any open-minded Republicans you can find; & yes, they absolutely exist. Here’s a good place to start:
https://braverangels.org.
I’ve been participating in this organization’s events, which focus on establishing positive contact among those who lean Blue or Red, & have found it to be a hopeful & positive movement to ease the hostilities & promote civil dialogue. It’s worth at least checking out.
Waiting the hundred days will give the authorities more time to discover and verify some of the details surrounding this event.
correction:
…majority —>to<— remove…
Lenny, replying under general comments below, to get more margin space
The failure of the Trump-incited insurrection has created an opening to the left b/c right-wing GOP is divided, disoriented, reeling from a succession of setbacks. A second impeachment widens this opening to the left and pushes the political situation in a democratic direction before the right has a chance to re-group, re-united divided factions, and re-take the offensive. Pelosi should without question follow the lead of the 200 Dem house members calling for a second impeachment; Biden and Congress should be pushed to put a progressive recovery agenda on the table without apologies or delays: $2000 aid per working family; raise taxes on the super-rich; forgive college debts; install a public health option; a national anti-eviction and rent control program to stop the mass evictions pending; a criminal justice project to end police violence in communities of color….This is the time for all folks left of center to push as hard as possible through the opening to the left created by the fiasco of Trump’s coup attempt and his shameful support in the GOP.
Which of your suggestions will make Trump’s support identified in the article, “Why religion and politics are at play in Georgia?” (Christian Recorder, 1-3-2021) evaporate?
Task now is not to evaporate Trump’s support but to move aggressively when that support suffered setbacks and divisions and public disgrace which weaken its forces. Trump’s vile charisma consolidated the forces to the right which remain a minority of the US population and electorate, but a minority empowered by the electoral college. The violent assault by Trump forces on the Capitol has changed the political situation. Trump’s base cannot be evaporated; it has always been a destructive anti-democratic force in America and will continue to be so. It can be contained and pushed back towards the margins if the current opening to the left is boldly deployed by the democratic opposition.
Thank you for the reply.
Your view then, is that msm, the Democratic party and Democratic candidates should continue their silence about the plot and seizure of power by conservative Christians i.e. “a majority of evangelicals and a good swath of Catholics”?*
1000 legislative seats lost before 2020, no blue wave in 2020, more votes for Trump than any candidate in the nation’s history other than Biden in 2020, Josh Hawley and Ted Cruz’ wins and, the easy win of Rep. Mary Miller.
Christian Recorder,1-3-21, “Why religion and politics are at play in Georgia?”
Ira-
I strongly believe that citizens should be informed that major Catholic schools have altered the Pledge of Allegiance to the United States. The students recite Catholic doctrine as part of the Pledge. The schools include the alma mater of WH Counsel, Pat Cipolone.
Off topic-
Four state GOP reps in Tennessee had their homes or offices raided by the FBI. One was in the news earlier related to his vote on an education voucher bill.
The House has already waited too long to impeach Trump. He should have been impeached last week.
The Articles of Impeachment should be simple and straightforward and omit reference to Trump’s call to the Georgia Secretary of State, in which Trump asked Raffensperger to “find” votes in his favor. The impeachment should focus solely on Trump’s role in last week’s insurrection.
I agree with you, but I understand. Another previously unimaginable concept and combination of words the Idiot has engendered: impeachment fatigue.
Well observed, Greg.
Ex presidents can still get intelligence briefings, if the sitting president approves this. In the past, this has been pretty much a formality, however, Biden should definitely refuse to provide such briefings to ex-president Trump, given his enormous debt, his low moral character, his treasonous relationships with autocratic bad actors around the globe, and his demonstrated willingness to foment rebellion against the government of the United States. Trump is a national security risk.
Good points. Presidents have often consulted their predecessors. I think of Kennedy’s recorded call to Eisenhower during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Can you imagine Biden calling Trump to see what he has to say about a response to a Russian incursion into Ukraine? Me neither.
LOL. It would be like Richard Feynman calling Tom Cruz for help with a math problem.
This has to be first and only time the names Richard Feynman and Ted Cruz have ever been used in the same sentence. May it be the last as well! 🤯
I said “Tom Cruz,” but “Ted” works.
Ted, Tom. Self-serving ideology or self-serving scientology, they’re both weird. Funny how one sees what one thinks one sees and not what one actually sees. (That’s a lot of sees. Kind of like my report cards!)
If Richard Feynman called anyone (Tom Cruz , Ted Cruz or anyone else) these days for any reason, it would be strange.
Proof of an afterlife!
SDP, depends on which dimension Feynman might currently be! 😁
in which
cx: formality; however,
Impeachment would create too much sympathy for trump. Let him hang himself.
Has he earned conviction? He did that last February, when he survived the feeble attempts of the less that resolute Democrats.
Meanwhile, the right wing is whimpering about saying goodbye to the first amendment. We should all have the right to cry kill the referee at the ballgame
Impeachment keeps him from being able to run again and prevents the US treasury from having to send money to this traitor. If he is not impeached, then Trump gets to maintain an office and pay staff on the taxpayer’s dime for the rest of his life. Do we really want this guy playing kingmaker and fomenting insurrection with our money? I don’t think so.
Not what he did. No. What Trump did was far, far more sinister. He fomented rebellion daily for weeks and weeks, fed the flames. Of course he kept what he was doing just this side of actually ordering an attack. Instead, he hinted and hinted and hinted at it. Wink wink. Nudge nudge. Wouldn’t it be just terrible if . . . ? ha ha ha. But that’s what Patriots do. That kind of thing.
SO FREAKING OBVIOUS.
Should the taxpayers be paying the salaries of Stephen Miller and Kayleigh Inanity or some other dirt bags like these while they write for the Boss his version of Mein Kampf? I don’t think so. But that’s the kind of thing that will happen if he is not impeached.
Trump’s last words to the rioters, after the day’s horrific events, in which give people died in a riot he instigated, were these: “And to all of my wonderful supporters, I know you are disappointed, but I also want you to know that our incredible journey is only just beginning.
Bob: while you make good points as do others above, I would go another direction. The reason I would is that the impeachment process makes a president the object of attention. This has always made Trump instead of destroyed him. We must strategically ignore trump and go after Hawley and Cruz.
There suddenly comes to mind the perfect solution. We should place the three of them in a room and require them to listen to Lindsey Graham do a stand-up routine.
We should put them in a room and make them listen to Alex Jones.
Oh, wait
Replying to Lenny’s 1/9 4:35 post: Lenny, my input above came a few hours after your post. I think the responsible thing to do for the nation’s safety is to seek any way possible to get him out now. But meanwhile, though impeachment probably can’t achieve that, it is necessary, just as it was the first time around– and this time it’s not even debatable, it’s imperative. The people of our democratic govt have to draw a line in the sand and declare that a president’s inciting a siege on the Capitol is absolutely beyond the pale. It goes far beyond impeachable offense: it’s treason.
Surely we have learned by now that boundaries must be drawn firmly, otherwise seditious actors will at some point push the envelope further. Concern about “exacerbating already inflamed tensions” is a rationale for appeasing outlaws and the elected representatives who recklessly egged them on. The thousands at the Capitol doors willing to toss democracy aside and violently interrupt the people’s business represent a tiny fraction of the 74million who voted for Trump, let them be exacerbated in jail. Throw the president out, and censure the lawmakers who blatantly pushed to overturn the election [nearly all silenced by the fruit of their cynical machinations].
As for smoothing things over with the rest of the 74million so as to usher in some Biden utopian unity, it can’t be done. They will get used to living with an unwelcome change in admin just as we did four yrs ago. Many of them already are, and the rest will grudgingly join once the agitators claiming ‘stolen election’ disappear from the media. Appease them with an investigation or two into ‘election reform’, it will help them save face. Meanwhile, the more unceremoniously Trump is tossed out, the less likely the extremists among them are to find representation within a party trying to put itself back together.
I think we seriously have to look at this through a global lens—not from within our granular [national] perspective on how out of our norm this action was, what led up to it, how quickly we think we can get out from under it. As the three international officials said in the Business Insider article Diane posted earlier, “the circumstantial evidence available pointed to what would be openly called a coup attempt in any other nation.”
As my Argentinian teacher told me during our zoom lesson Wed (as the siege played out), the world but especially Latin America, as fellow former colonials, looks to the US to understand what is possible under democracy. He said what was going on here Wed looked just like disturbances with which they are all too familiar—which lead to sudden forced regime change. It behooves us to use every legal tool available to protect our democracy.
Yup.
bethree5 I agree with nearly all your points. The only exception is just a question of degree. I don’t believe it’s impossible to restore constructive communication with some of those who’ve supported Trump up to, but not including, his planned disruption at the Capitol. I certainly don’t think we’ll reach anything remotely approaching 74 million, or that those we do reach will be part of any sort of Utopian unity, Biden-led or otherwise. We won’t achieve that even among only Democrats, but there’s still good reason to reach out to any who’ll even consider responding, where they wouldn’t have before.
I don’t expect 74 million to shift to cheering Bernie & AOC; I’d be happy with 1 or 2 million being willing to consider proposals based on inherent merits rather than whose idea it was; & yes, I think even that would improve the state of American society. Any easing of the past several years’ tensions is valuable. While it’s not as dramatic as a Congressional- or Cabinet-imposed removal from office, I believe it offers a more substantial long-term benefit for the country. I’d rather see us succeed at the relatively modest goal of restoring some measure of bi-partisan communication than risk a 2nd spectacular failure at removal from office, which would then, after all that’s transpired, permit Trump to exit a “winner” (& we know that’s how he & his remaining fervent supporters would characterize it). The attention that would draw could effectively erase any ideological gains we’ve made this week, & it’s a very real risk.
Unlike impeachment or 25th Amendment proceedings, which depend on support from wild cards we can’t depend on, communication with Trump expatriates is something each one of us can control by engaging in it day-to-day. I don’t want to risk losing that opportunity.
What does it say about the state of the Republican party if enough Reps and Senators will not vote for impeachment and conviction of Trump for inciting a coup attempt when it was Republicans that were instrumental in forcing Nixon to resign because of lying about Watergate? Even if conviction is not possible, if there is bipartisan support (which, apparently, there is) than that, in and of itself, sends a powerful message. Perhaps some of their constituents will hear it.
It says that the Republican Party of 2021 is not what it was in 1974.
It has no principles, no spine, no soul, no brain.
All that holds it together is veneration or fear of Trump.
Exactly.
dianeravitch I posted similar sentiments, with elaboration, in my response to @speductr’s comment.
speduktr “What does it say about the state of the Republican party…” It says this isn’t actually the Republican party that has existed in past years, & in an administration of which Diane Ravitch served; it’s a bunch of usurpers who were invited in as a result of a poorly-conceived deal with the devil for the purpose of getting more checkmarks in the “R” column. They just didn’t bother to change the sign on the door. I think “Neoconfederate Party” would be a good choice. The real Republicans, such as those in the Lincoln Project, are the hope for the future of fiscal conservatism.
At this point, I question whether it’s possible for them to regain control of the party administration &, with the severe damage done to the Republican brand, whether it’s even worth the effort. Regardless, the assemblage currently included under the Republican party clearly needs to split into 2 parties, however the nomenclature works out.
Regarding the constituents, there certainly are those who are dismayed with the current orientation of the party they’ve supported, & would welcome such a shaking out.
The big question is what responses to Trump, Hawley, Cruz, et al. are most likely to help create conditions that will prevent The Trumpling Scenario–the emergence of a younger, more charismatic, more articulate, more knowledgeable, less incompetent leader who is, like Trump, a wannabe fascist and who can pick up Trump’s base, add to it, and then actually bring about the end of democracy. Fully prosecuting these people–impeaching Trump, expelling Cruz and Hawley, arresting and imprisoning those who broke into the Capitol building–will draw the line, as you so rightly argue above, Ginny.
The ambitious Trump Mini-Mes, the Trumplings like Cruz, are counting on us to forget and forgive and “move on.” This will blow over, Cruz must be saying to himself, and I will have shown the extremists of the Trump base that I’m their guy–the one who can carry that movement forward. It’s a political calculation. This is why, even after the rioters stormed into the Capitol, Cruz STILL went back into session and made his undemocratic and utterly unfounded objection to the Electoral Count. There’s a huge crowd of these Trumplings, these would-be heirs to the real Trump treasure, his moronic and base base (e.g., Governor DeSantis of Flor-uh-duh).
Actually, impeachment itself does not depend on any wild cards.
Removal from office by a two thirds vote of the Senate does, but that’s a different issue.
Impeachment only requires a simple majority vote of the House, which is virtually assured if Pelosi gives the word.
It’s worth pursuing even if Trump is not convicted (because of lack of time or other reasons).
The latest is that Trump will be impeached by the House but it will not send Articles of impeachment to the Senate until after Biden’s 100 days.
No matter what the Senate does, Trump will go down in history as the only president twice impeached
One of the important functions of impeachment by the House is that it forces members to make a stand one way or the other.
This allows voters to know where their Congressperson stood on the issue.
Trump’s Crowning Achievement
It’s quite a thing
To claim the crown
Impeachment ring
Is quite a sound
As for smoothing things over with the rest of the 74million so as to usher in some Biden utopian unity, it can’t be done.
Exactly, Ginny. Trumpism is a cult. It is a BIG cult, but it’s a cult. Anyone who could vote for this man after the last four years–who could vote for the guy who suggested injecting disinfectants, called our fallen soldiers “losers,” and abandoned our allies the Kurds in a unilateral tweet in the middle of the morning–isn’t going to respond to reason. The big issue that the Repugnicans face–bigger than the liability that is Trump–is this: young people and those people in the most rapidly growing demographics in the country overwhelmingly oppose them, down the line, on the issues. We’re not going to reach the 74 million by placating them. The only things we can do to reach these ignorant and confused people is to
a) continue reaching out to the Trumplings’ kids and educating them to have more understanding than their parents do;
b) prosecute Trump for his crimes, imprison him; and so remove the poison he drips daily into the body politic;
c) address the root causes that contribute to the creation of fertile ground for a nationalist demagogue like Trump–the obscene and growing wealth and income inequality in this country
“abandoned our allies the Kurds in a unilateral tweet”
I can’t believe I’d forgotten about this already. So many outrages to keep track of starting right out of the box with the Muslim Ban.
One after another, each a spreading of excrement upon decency and democratic norms
Meanwhile, the more unceremoniously Trump is tossed out, the less likely the extremists among them are to find representation within a party trying to put itself back together.
Extraordinarily well observed, Ginny. What we need is MORE, not LESS of the sort of marginalization of extremists that is occurring right now with Cruz and Hawley. Anything less than full prosecution of the cases against Trump, Hawley, Cruz, and the rioters in the Capitol will simply allow this horror to fade from public memory and, worse, become normalized (well, this is what happens when we have political disagreements). These people, Trump, Hawley, Cruz, crossed a bright red line. They inciting a violent attack on the democratic process itself AS IT WAS BEING CARRIED OUT.
cx: incited
This time I definitely like Pelosi.
…………………………………
Pelosi urges Democrats to prepare to return to DC this week amid impeachment calls
…In an hours-long conference call with the House Democratic caucus Friday, lawmakers expressed near unanimous support for impeachment.
Pelosi stated in the letter released Saturday that lawmakers have taken an oath of office to defend democracy.
“For that reason, it is absolutely essential that those who perpetrated the assault on our democracy be held accountable. There must be a recognition that this desecration was instigated by the President,” she wrote.
“From what I have heard from Members, and from the deluge that I have received from the public, it is clear that, once again, the Times Have Found Us to save our democracy,” Pelosi concluded…
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/533511-pelosi-urges-democrats-to-prepare-to-return-to-washington-this-week-amid
I’d love to be a fly on the wall and observe Trump fuming, viciously angry and depressed. [Well, in theory, I would like to see this. In fact, I can’t stand his worthless____________.] His call to overthrow the government didn’t work and he got taken off of his blow-horn media. Poor Trump.
Trump stares down new impeachment threat
…Outgoing Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) on Friday circulated a memo to his colleagues outlining the procedure for holding another impeachment trial for Trump.
The document, which was first reported by The Washington Post, lays out how the Senate would proceed if the House approves articles of impeachment and transmits them to the upper chamber before or by Jan. 19, when senators are scheduled to resume regular business after the January recess.
McConnell says the most likely scenario is for the Senate to receive a message from the lower chamber notifying it of the impeachment action on Jan. 19. That would then give the Senate the option of ordering the House impeachment managers to present those articles on the same day.
Senate impeachment rules say that at 1 p.m. on the day after the managers exhibit the articles, the Senate “must proceed to their consideration,” the memo states.
As a result, the Senate trial would not begin until one hour after Biden takes the oath of office…
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/533494-trump-to-face-new-impeachment-threat
All sorts of people are screaming first amendment right now. This is a peculiar time. A group who would destroy free speech for the marginalized now clamors for the right to be heard on social media. The problem lies in the contradiction of democracy. We all love self-government, but we live around people who love it as well. How to make everybody feel like we are fair is difficult.
These people would use their second amendment right to squelch the first amendment rights of the rest of us.
The Battle of the Bill of Rights!
Here is some good advice if Dems are serious about impeachment:
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/01/10/trump-impeachment-articles-incite-insurrection-seditious-conspiracy-456937
Amazon suspends Parler, threatening to take pro-Trump site offline indefinitely
Jan. 9, 2021 at 9:30 p.m. CST
Amazon suspended the pro-Trump social network Parler from its Web-hosting service this weekend, a move that threatens to darken the site indefinitely after its users glorified the recent riot at the U.S. Capitol.
The e-commerce and Web-hosting giant said Parler had violated its terms of service given its inadequate content-moderation practices, adding in a letter that it would implement its punishment just before midnight Pacific time Monday.
Trump scrambles to find new social network after Twitter ban, as White House prepares to blast big tech
The move by Amazon Web Services, or AWS, marks the latest and most crippling blow for the pro-Trump social network, which has emerged as a haven for conservative users who have fled more mainstream Silicon Valley sites that crack down on harmful, viral falsehoods online. Earlier this week, Apple and Google removed Parler’s app from their stores for smartphone downloads, similarly citing concerns that posts on Parler could contribute to violence…
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/01/09/amazon-parler-suspension/
Trump Whined to Advisers: Why Can’t I Tweet?!
Once again, the president focused on what really mattered—Twitter and Facebook locking him out of his accounts.
…One of the sources said that since Wednesday, Trump has specifically complained that he was trying to send a tweet during his Twitter lockout, and that he was furious that he couldn’t. The other person familiar with the situation said the president privately claimed this was another instance of Big Tech silencing conservatives and trying to help cover up the “crime” of the century that occurred during the 2020 presidential election…
Multiple sources with knowledge of the matter and who have been in contact with Trump since Wednesday say he continues to insist he did absolutely nothing wrong, that senior officials and party leaders backing away from him are cowards, and that he also wants people to look into baseless rumors that antifa radicals infiltrated the MAGA protest and riot this week…
https://www.thedailybeast.com/after-inciting-capitol-riot-trump-whines-to-advisers-why-cant-i-tweet?source=email&via=desktop
Why did Trump tape a video message to the mob saying “I love you” and “you are very special” if he thought they were Antifa? .
Whoa! Good catch!
The Roman Um pyre
Pelosi fiddles
DC burns
Centrist middle
Never learns