Trump’s violent cultists invaded the United States Capitol today. The president watched on television. He did nothing as his base broke windows, stormed into the Rotunda and entered members’ offices while our elected officials cowered in hiding.
This was an attempted coup, a deliberate effort to disrupt the functioning of government.
Hours went by without decisive action. I am not alone in observing that if the terrorists were black, the police/military response would have been fast and furious.
This is the culmination of Trumpism. Today is a shameful day in American history.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
If not one stops these traitors and Trump loyalists, then Trump wins and the U.S. Constitution goes into the trash bin of history as a failed experiment.
Will the U.S. Military stand by and do nothing?
Was anyone arrested?
They trashed the inside of the Capitol and walked away without consequences.
They’re all on camera, very few faces obscured by masks of course, and the FBI is on scene now.
Let me know when the police arrest more than 15 people.
to left coast teacher, BS
to hell with cameras and the future tireless/endless search for these culprits that were literally sitting in the capitol. that approach is disgraceful! sorry but it is. as the writer noted if these folks were Black like me or any other color or sex, they would have responded with such force every person on the planet would have noticed. (i note the 1 person known to be shot is a female.)
I feel the anger too. I recognize the feeling. Some arrests must be made and they will be made. Violence must be met with justice. Generally, however, even though it would be unjust, the U.S. would do well to act toward Trump and this rebellion the way Lincoln would have acted in mid-1865 toward the Confederate rebellion, had he not been assassinated, with thoughtfulness. After Lincoln was shot, President Andrew Johnson put out a warrant for lead Confederate conspirator Jefferson Davis’ arrest. It would have been better — I’m sorry to be a little sarcastic on a day like today, but it would have been better if Johnson had merely suspended Jefferson Davis’ Twitter account so he couldn’t do any more damage. And rebuild the South peacefully.
Yes. Twitter should suspend his account now.
Write @Jack
@Twitter
He encouraged insurrection.
He is a danger to society and democracy.
I just sent a letter to Senator Mike Braun [R-IN] telling about how I am sick of his being one of the supporters of Trump who encouraged this mob that broke into the capitol building.
18 USC Chapter 115 – TREASON, SEDITION, AND SUBVERSIVE ACTIVITIES
§ 2383. Rebellion or insurrection
§ 2384. Seditious conspiracy
§ 2385. Advocating overthrow of Government
Time to frog-march this Traitor-in-Chief out of the White House and arrest, indict, and convict him on all these charges.
exactly. Add sedition to the Idiots long, long list of serious crimes.
deanramser Yes, yes and yes. And on display is also testosterone fueled political stupidity. Does anyone really think these people understand anything about the democracy they live in? CBK
Until both parties start to listen to average everyday Americans and deal with 1) Redistribution of wealth, 2) Progressive taxation, and 3) Utilizing taxes to strengthen and expand the public commons and safety nets, this will happen over and over again, and it will worsen. It does not matter what camp you are from. Suffering and oppression are suffering and oppression, even if you use widely different rationales and perspectives to explain them. A sad and infuriating day in American history . . . .
Two days ago I wouldn’t have agreed so heartily with your prediction, Robert, but I fear you are correct. There’s nothing like seeing citizens bullying lawmakers with impunity over & over on TV to break down inhibitions.
Mother Jones:
By late Tuesday, with Trump supporters converging on the nation’s capital for the Wednesday rally, the city began to see pockets of chaos. The president had welcomed the activity with a fresh tweet: “Washington is being inundated with people who don’t want to see an election victory stolen by emboldened Radical Left Democrats. Our Country has had enough, they won’t take it anymore! We hear you (and love you) from the Oval Office. MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!”
Our country . . . they
3rd-grade grammar errors from our Commander in Chief
Send a message to Trump now! Tell him to resign tonight. They are not answering their phones but use their website to send your message. Share this far and wide https://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/
YEP. Done. “Thank you for your submission!”
I doubt that the WH really wants my comment.
Trump doesn’t care. In fact, he loves the chaos.
Trump IS CHAOS. Good riddance.
I was going to comment earlier today who glad I was to be wrong about the Georgia senate races. The day started out so well! Then I was reminded about part of a comment on I made on your Dec 29 post about the possibility of the Idiot might declaring martial law:
“Here’s what we will see on Jan 6, disruptions in the House, disruptions in the Senate, demonstrations of limited groups of whackos in DC that will likely terrorize the halls of Congress, the streets, the Metros, etc. Police will likely stand by as small acts of violence break out, as they have done in the past. Yes, the Biden/Harris victory will be certified. There will be temper tantrums for all the world to see. And the legitimacy of our nation’s standing will continue to be chipped away.” Wish I was as wrong about that as I was about Georgia.
I was worried that he would incite violence, then declare martial law. He incited violence but didn’t go to next step.
I think the most important thing is that there were no counter protesters there. That was a brilliant (and absolutely necessary) move.
Without counter protesters for the Trump neo-Nazis to fight, they had to fight the police, illegally force themselves into a government building to prevent the workings of democracy from happening.
CNBC was taking phone calls from all over the US. There are some crazies sitting at home condoning this madness and claiming that Antifa just had to be there creating the violence because Republicans are peaceful people…..OMG/SMH.
CSPAN…not CNBC
I wish law enforcement had been better prepared. Trump is a transparent would be dictator. He has been talking about this attempt to undermine the certification for weeks. There should have been law enforcement at all the exits and entrances. Somebody opened the side door to the Capitol building from the inside. These clowns never should have gotten inside. This disrespectful display should have been kept outside where peaceful protest is allowed.
I heard a CSPAN call-in from a former chief of DC police expressing outrage that they didn’t even follow riot-prevention 101 1st rule: cordon off protestors well away from the building.
The same former DC police chief was on CNN. He said the buildings should be cleared without delay and the intruders arrested.
I heard this from several places now: the reason for the apparent incompetence of the police to hold back the protesters was because the whole thing was planned. They wanted to show where Trump’s rhetoric leads and hence they let the thugs break into the Capitol.
Did you also hear that the CIA or the Israelis or Bush planned 9/11, and that no one actually died that day.
Máté Wierdl: That’s an interesting concept. The comments I’ve been reading on WaPo and NYT lead to the conclusion that the police were Trump sympathizers who didn’t do their job. They’s see things and do nothing.
Who is they? They were willing to risks the lives of all those people in the building conducting the lawful business of governing?! That would make them complicit, not just incompetent.
They also claim that some policemen were taking selfies during the breakin but all the videos supposedly showing this have been removed.
If I sit down, and think about for 5 minutes, I can come up with 5 new theories. It seems to be the case that the police was not as forceful as they often are. They might have been warned about political consequences if they used more force.
bethree5 I’m guessing at this point, but knowing Trump, he probably set the conditions for the police to STAND DOWN.” CBK
Updating after hearing a former Capitol Police chief (NOT DC Police) today on CSPAN, followed by a reporter who covers them. Still don’t have all the background, but it’s clear these are two different forces with very different approaches. The Capitol Police would not, if I understand correctly, be responding to directions from the White House but rather from leaders of the legislature. Their [retired] man explained that though they’re there to protect property, they do not use or threaten to use deadly force in that context– only to protect life. Their mission at the doors was to hold the crowd off as long as they could in order for colleagues to get legislators & staff inside, out of harm’s way. Which they did. He also noted that they have successfully handled multiple protests over the years, but this one was different. That they typically deal with protestors who follow police orders (!)
DC Police if I read them correctly cover their turf in force & would have been cuffing and hauling people off from the get-go. Hopefully they will be in charge on Inauguration Day. And if we’re going to have impeachment proceedings, Capitol Police need to be working with them hand in glove going forward.
Only a handful of the terrorists were arrested. A small fraction of the number arrested at BLM protests. Most of the terrorists simply walked out and went home, undisturbed by police.
Where were the vans that should have been holding pens for those who exited the building?
Why were the few arrested charged with minor crimes like trespassing rather than sedition?
Diane Not vans . . . I think they needed a cow pen. CBK
If I was an elected lawmaker, a polite security force would freak me out. We are talking about the World’s most important Capitol. When I visited the Capitol (more than a decade ago), I had to go through all kinds of security checks, and my feeling was, if I deviated one inch from the guard’s instructions, I would have been handcuffed and investigated. Which was completely in line with what I thought was appropriate.
This time, these terrorists broke in into the Capitol, but no force was applied inside against them (see that lonely guard running up the stairs, waving a stick at the mob that was chasing him upstairs), only nervous yelling at them.
If anywhere, shooting in such situation would have been an appropriate reaction. How do you think military people are trained to react when a US embassy they guard is attacked? Are they instructed to “Yell at the intruders as loud as you can” or perhaps “You are defending the US and their representatives here, so get your weapons ready”? Why is an embassy different from the Capitol?
I caught parts of a report ( and I hope I am not misrepresenting the account) by a black woman who had been in charge of a BLM rally in D.C. She talked about having to fill out paper work and gain permission/permits from 50 different agencies in preparation for the march. Obviously, no such protocol was followed for the dear leader’s rally. Even so, I would not recommend that we put in place permanent protocols that require the level of police power we saw demonstrated for the BLM rally. It was inappropriate then and is inappropriate now. However, we need a lot more information about why security guards meant to make sure people form lines and stay in public areas were all of a sudden tasked with stopping a riot. Do we solve that problem by turning the Capitol into a mini police state?
I think you are mistaking the Capitol for a museum. The guards of the Capitol are there to ensure the safety of workers there who possibly make highly unpopular decisions that affect billions of people all over the World.
And they don’t expect to have to “protect” the people in the building by a show of force but by enforcing the rules. From all appearances, there were no more security guards than there are at checkpoints at a major airport and I don’t believe you even have to take your shoes off!
speduktr: I SENT this email comment to a friend the morning of Jan. 6…telling about my being fearful of riots in D.C. today. If I could be fearful of these Trump supporters, why wasn’t the security of the area better enforced? Surely, they had access to much more information than I did.
On Jan 6, 2021, at 8:54 AM, Carol Ring wrote:
I woke up at 3:30am this morning and couldn’t go back to sleep. I had to find out who was winning in Georgia. AT that time, both Republicans were ahead. I couldn’t sleep after that.
Here’s hoping both win and we can finally get rid of Moscow Mitch as head of the Senate and bye-bye to the Orange IDIOT.
I am fearful of riots in D.C. today. Trump supporters are all out in force. I read that 5,000 are estimated to show up.
No doubt there was a huge security failure, but it wasn’t on the part of the little guys facing the rioters. I can’t get out of my mind that single black guard retreating up the stairs in the face of a crowd of mostly angry white men. What must have been going through his mind? The powers that be that left them to deal with it have a lot to answer for.
There is no little guy in such a case, just a guard whose job is to protect the Capitol. I doubt, his instructions were to run away from the crowd. I used to be a guard in a Hungarian navy’s shipyard. I had my automatic rifle with me, and my order was to yell once at an intruder and then shoot. The US Capitol is a much more significant and important place to protect than that shipyard was so I doubt the generic orders could have been different. Running up the stairs doesn’t look like protection of the Capitol in any sense of the word.
Do you really think your job as a guard in a Hungarian navy shipyard could be considered the same as the job of a security guard in the People’s House/Capitol in Washington D.C.? The Capitol is a public building. Yes, access is restricted to certain areas, but the guards are not in the habit of shooting miscreants, and they were obviously not given the resources or the manpower to even attempt to contain that mob with a show of force.
Why weren’t they given? This is the million $ question. But yeah, your question about comparing the two posts is fair. I still think, it’s much more important to protect the workers in the Capitol than some old boats. Imo, the ambiguous message the lack of forceful defence on Jan. 6. will just encourage further riots and attacks against federal and state governmental establishments.
As far as I’m concerned, Biden should be confirmed in a bunker! The crazies are planning more mischief across the country, so I doubt the security response will be as poor. Still, until Biden has had time to clean house, it’s hard to have confidence that security measures can be trusted.
I want Biden to do the inauguration virtually. There are too many armed loyal followers who are anxious to do the LORD’S bidding./s The Chosen One shall reign. [Many of the loonies are not a bit religious but love their guns and are chomping to be the one who gets the ultimate prize.]
Plus, how many security people are Trump lovers?
Trump has unleashed the worst in society that was there but as you said, now they can communicate with each other.
……………………..
Another FBI memo obtained by Yahoo News states that some members of the Boogaloo movement planning Jan. 17 rallies “indicated willingness to commit violence in support of their ideology, created contingency plans in the event violence occurred at the events, and identified law enforcement security measures and possible countermeasures.”
it appears, the broad rejection of the “political solution” and growing despair has disparate fascist and far-right groups moving toward sectarian militancy. From Jan. 5 to Jan. 8, just hours after the news of Trump’s suspension from Twitter, the 20 accounts tracked by Daily Beast on Terrorgram increased by an average of 5 percent—the highest gains coming to the nihilist Blackpilled channel (33 percent) and the Proud Boys: Uncensored (12 percent). The growth continued through the weekend, averaging 10 percent across the board, as the rump of the revolutionary faction of Trumpism continues to reconstitute in the wake of his defeat, with fresh recruits arming up and preparing to ‘take back’ the country.
News reports showing Trump goons strolling around the House and Senate chambers without a care in the world. What if one of these fools had sneaked an explosive device or some toxic substance into the Capitol. There was a report that an explosive device was found but it wasn’t in the Capitol. A government shut down, Trump style. I took a quick perusal of the local Patch comments regarding the mob action in DC and a sickening number of vile morons were cheering on the invasion of the Capitol building. It’s really horrifying.
Jesus H. Christ. Just tuned into C-SPAN five minutes ago and three callers in a row say this was done by antifa “infiltrators.” That’s the next line of looniness, folks.
Lie.
The terrorists marched from a Trump rally to the Capitol.
Trump, Don Jr., and Guiliani egged on the violence.
THE BIG :LIE. And of course “everyone knows it.” CBK
I know!!! I can’t believe what people are saying as they are calling in!
From wiki on cognitive dissonance: “… when two actions or ideas are not psychologically consistent with each other, people do all in their power to change them until they become consistent. The discomfort is triggered by the person’s belief clashing with new information perceived, wherein they try to find a way to resolve the contradiction to reduce their discomfort.”
CSPAN hosts are so good about keeping a straight face & refraining from challenging their more ‘out-there’ callers-in. I watched Bill on Washington Journal this a.m. in a rare break from this tradition, as a rwnut-job complained that Biden hasn’t been investigated for the “racketeering and money-laundering by his son in China.” The host interrupted, “but those are lies!” 😀
Reblogged this on dean ramser.
Well, I can tell you no one in Michigan is surprised by this. These sorts of Trumplodytes plotted to storm the Capitol, Kidnap, Kangaroo-ry, and Kill our Governor.
I was thinking about that today. It turns out Michigan was a test run.
ed: Kangaroo-try
Correct– and that is the parallel comparison, NOT rioting/ looting ancillary to BLM protests, as so many midget-minded CSPAN callers-in are bloviating today.
“I am not alone in observing that if the terrorists were black, the police/military response would have been fast and furious.”
… not to mention “deadly”, as in they’d all be DEAD.
EVERY. LAST. ONE.
Response to BLM in DC
Here’s terrific commentary by Joy Reid of MSNBC. She compares the police response to today to the marches after the death of Freddy Gray in Baltimore.https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/watch/joy-reid-if-this-was-a-blm-protest-there-would-already-be-people-shackled-arrested-or-dead-98978373607
Yes, Jon, there was a fast response to BLM, almost none today.
The whitest of privileges I’ve yet seen.
Law and order? Right….
If this had been a breach through airport security, imagine the punishment. Why should the senate and house chambers not be even more secure?
“[Someone] isn’t doing [his] job. [He] must clear out, and in some cases arrest, the Anarchists & Agitators… If [he] can’t do it, the Federal Government will do it for [him]. We will not be leaving until there is safety!” —Donald Trump, “The Law and Order President” after protests in Portland, Oregon.
This tweet alone is an admission “he” is complicit. “He” is part of the “we”. This is a coup attempt. We must reconvene Congress and announce the election results. “They” have successfully stopped our government from operating!
@realDonaldTrump
·
1h
I am asking for everyone at the U.S. Capitol to remain peaceful. No violence! Remember, WE are the Party of Law & Order – respect the Law and our great men and women in Blue. Thank you!
And NO commentary from Ted Cruz or Josh Hawley??……cowardly traitors! I wonder if those who chose not to impeach this maniac last year are happy with the decisions they made?
Hawley, ambitious Trumpling wanna President in 2024, did issue a statement. He took no responsibility. Praised the Capitol Police. Tried to distance himself from this event for which, of course, he is of course one of the responsible parties.
Harley andCruz should resign.
George Will pins the tail on Hawley in his Jan 4 WaPo column: “has there ever been such a high ratio of ambition to accomplishment?”
Will links that comment to his insightful 12/31 examination of Hawley. Premise: “The problem with political decadence is not what it does to those who are already disordered. The primary problem is what it does to talented, knowledgeable, ambitious young leaders who can be warped toward a destructive influence.”
Further down in the 12/31 opinion, Will refines this as ‘the politics of delegitimization’. “This is the type of politics that Hawley is enabling — a form of politics that abolishes politics. A contest of policy visions can result in compromise. The attempt to delegitimize your opponent requires their political annihilation. And a fight to the political death is always conducted in the shadow of possible violence.” Prophetic.
“pins the tail on the Hawley”
LOL. Perfect.
Trump, the 12 Senators, the 140 Congresspeople who incited resurrection by declaring this a fraudulent election–all have engaged in sedition. None should continue in office.
inciting insurrection, lol. Another covfefe.
I wondered who or what was being reborn. 🙂 Trump as the Christ! What a horrid thought!
“… And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?”
— William Butler Yeats
“None should continue in office.”
Agreed, Bob.
If nothing else, this debacle makes clear the difference between the rule of law and the rule of an individual. There are lots of times I find “rules” nothing but irritating, but to be beholden to the will of a man and/or mob sure looks less attractive after yesterday. Who wants to subject to the will of the playground bully?
You saw all this coming, Mate! Impressive. I watched the Bannon podcast that you posted weeks and weeks ago. The entire sick Trumpy game plan was laid out there, including this call for insurrection against the government that Trump is supposed to be leading.
I am grateful to Lloyd, who informed us here that the armed forces will not follow unlawful orders, hence I wasn’t too nervous about any serious escalation.
I am grateful to Secretary of Defense Mark Esper, who stood up to Trump and refused to send in the military (a stance for which he was then fired); to General Mark Milley, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, who issued a blistering and principled statement condemning such a move; and to former SECDEF James Mattis, who did likewise.
So who hasn’t abandoned Trump besides his family?
Well, Ted Cruz.
TRUMP today, to the rioters at the Capitol Building, after having spent weeks inciting insurrection (transcript):
I know your pain. I know your hurt. We had an election that was stolen from us. It was a landslide election, and everyone knows it, especially the other side, but you have to go home now. We have to have peace. We have to have law and order. We have to respect our great people in law in order. We don’t want anybody hurt. It’s a very tough period of time. There’s never been a time like this where such a thing happened, where they could take it away from all of us—from me, from you, from our country. There’s a fraudulent election, but we can’t play into the hands of these people. We have to have peace, so go home. We love you, and you’re very special. You’ve seen what happens. You see the way the other are treated who are so bad and so evil. I know how you feel, but go home, and go home in peace.
Shameful is the word, Diane. Absolutely.
For 4 long years this blog has been an island of sanity amidst a nation that has been unraveling under the despicable rule of Donald Trump and his toadies..
It’s a relief to be on here tonight with you all.
John,
I was so upset today that I couldn’t put many words together.
Thousands of terrorists laid siege to the U.S. Capitol. Someone died.
Exactly 15 people were arrested.
Why?
When there were BLM protests near the Capitol, there were hundreds of Police in riot gear, all around the building. When I first started watching this insanity, this morning, there were very, very few police and an enormous crowd of these terrorists. An NPR reporter interviewed one of them after they broke into the building, and he said that they had a Constitutionally protected right to overthrow the government.
The Capitol was said to be one of the main targets of the terrorists who took over Flight 93 on September 11, 2001. Of course, citizens fought back on the plane that day and thwarted the plan.
Today, on January 6, 2021, some of our fellow citizens did what those al-Qaeda murderers could not accomplish. That Trump mob successfully attacked our Capitol. In doing so, they dishonored all the people who have defended our Constitution throughout history.
They are a disgrace.
John, there’s an essay to be published in the bones of that first paragraph of yours.
Both days will live in my memory.
More like Donald Noriega Trump.
I wonder if Secret Service is going to have to drag that dumpster out of the White House?
Thank goodness the White House is getting a good CLEAN. I wouldn’t want to touch anything that dumpster and his people touched or breathed on.
I hope they make sure to get some of Jabba’s DNA first.
so prosecutors can match it to that dress from the department store incident
Maybe they could hire one of those dumpster trucks to just load him up and haul him off and take him to the dump.
That would be a relatively cheap way of dealing with the problem. We just had that done for about $300 for a 15 yard dumpster, although Trump maybe more like 30 yards, which might cost $500.
But still pretty cheap disposal.
And for a couple hundred more, they’d prolly haul off the rest of the clan too.
On second thought, they should prolly put him on a garbage barge and send him out to sea rather than to the dump.
poor fish
Media report Derrick Evans who is a recently elected delegate to the W.Va. House of Delegates posted to his Facebook page about his involvement in the mob that stormed the Capitol. Evans was the subject of a headline, June 4, 2019, “Anti-abortion protestor violates restraining order from Charleston clinic worker”.
Unbefreakinglievable. Full story here including his own video showing him to be part of mob forcibly pushing into building & cheering it on. [“We’re in, baby!” tweets the helmeted Evans]. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/derrick-evans-west-virginia-us-capitol-video/ I hope he doesn’t resign despite thousands petitioning. I’d rather see him being handcuffed and escorted out of the WV legislature while in session.
FINALLY…Twitter does something meaningful. Now Trump should be blocked permanently.
………………………….
The Washington Post
Alert
News Alert
Jan. 6, 7:22 p.m. EST
Twitter locks Trump’s account for 12 hours and warns he could get kicked off permanently
Twitter late Wednesday locked President Trump out of his account for the first time, the most punitive step the company has taken against the president on a day of social unrest and violence in Washington. The 12-hour timeout also included the removal of three tweets and a warning that Trump could be subject to a permanent suspension if he continues tweeting baseless conspiracies about the election and inciting violence.
Let’s put this in perspective: Shameful because they tried, proud because they failed.
The most amazing part of this to me is that these people who’d be mortally offended, perhaps to the point of coming to blows, by any suggestion they’re less than absolute, died-in-the-wool American patriots, are actually revolting (this is way beyond “protest”; it’s a revolt) against the governmental system that gives them the right to express their disapproval. I’m not claiming that because we can protest, we shouldn’t, but there are built into the system approved, effective ways of expressing such positions.
It’s also true that even events planned as peaceful get out of hand & include violence. Trump supporters applauding the attack on the Capitol point to some Democrat protests over the past couple of years, but that’s a false equivalence. As wrong as it was for protesters (or, in some cases, opportunists not aligned with the protesters) to attack police & destroy property, this direct assault on a the heart of US government is on a completely different, higher, level.
To the best of my knowledge, the only other occasion in American history on which there was a violent assault on DC government buildings occurred during the War of 1812, i.e., carried out by an invading enemy force as an act of war. This is apparently the first, & hopefully only, time such an attack has been committed by American citizens.
Hat tip and thanks to Greg for digging up the shooting in the Capitol during the Truman administration: The 1954 United States Capitol shooting was an attack on March 1, 1954, by four Puerto Rican nationalists; they shot 30 rounds from semi-automatic pistols from the Ladies’ Gallery (a balcony for visitors) of the House of Representatives chamber in the United States Capitol. They wanted to highlight their desire for Puerto Rican independence from US rule. [snip]
Five Representatives were wounded, one seriously, but all recovered. The assailants were arrested, tried and convicted in federal court, and given long sentences, effectively life imprisonment. In 1978 and 1979, they were pardoned by President Jimmy Carter; all four returned to Puerto Rico. from wikipedia
Thanks for pointing that out – didn’t turn up in my search. This attack is still unique as an assault on a principle as fundamental as free elections, which have generally been respected & accepted, even if sometimes grudgingly, by Americans regardless of party.
They were not protestors. They were domestic terrorists.
They should have been arrested and jailed for insurrection.
Anyone who isn’t outraged isn’t paying attention.
Yes they were (are). Even Hannity, while still claiming the election was “stolen,” denounced unequivocally the violence, particularly the physical assault on the Capitol building, saying that those who engaged in it should be arrested & prosecuted.
If Trump’s business debt is owned by Putin… debt paid in full today.
Nope. When you deal with mobsters like Trump and Putin, the debt is never repaid.
Hearing some of these congress people talk about having to hit the ground, shelter in place, worry that they were going to die-I wish that would give them an inkling of a regular drill that school kids go through more than once during a year…
Congress has been sheltering in place for years.
Shouldn’t be anything new for them.
Excellent point, adding, establishment Dems make it impossible for the progressive delegates to be activists.
Brilliant point, Ms. Jenson!!! From your text to Mitch McConnell’s ears.
Apparently it took a close brush with bodily harm for these kabuki artists to get a clue about what they’ve been playing with for the last four years. Doubt if they’ll connect those dots.
Opinion | President Trump has committed treason
by Dana Milbank Columnist
Jan. 6, 2021 at 7:20 p.m. CST
President Trump broke any number of laws and norms during his ruinous four-year reign. He just added one more on the way out: treason.
He lost the House in 2018. He lost the presidency in November. He lost the Senateon Tuesday. And on Wednesday, with nothing left to lose, he rallied a violent mobto attack the U.S. Capitol in hopes of pressuring lawmakers to toss out the election results, ignore the will of the people, and install him as president for another term.
Trump fomented a deadly insurrection against the U.S. Congress to prevent a duly-elected president from taking office. Treason is not a word to be used lightly, but that is its textbook definition.
“We will not take it anymore, and that’s what this is all about,” he told a sea of MAGA fans and Proud Boys on the Ellipse outside the White House at noon. From behind bulletproof glass, he told them: “If you don’t fight like hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore.”…
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/01/06/president-trump-has-committed-treason/
Not the first act of treason from Vlad’s Agent Orange? Not quite. Before he was elected, he called for Russia to hack his opponent’s emails, and Russia complied. And he got a pass for this? You or I would have ended up in prison. He laundered money for the Russians for years. He lied about having business dealings with the Russians (he was negotiating building a tower in Moscow at the very time that he was campaigning and saying he had no business with Russia). He was completely complicit with meeting with a Russian lawyer and operative to get dirt on Clinton, and there are texts with his son that prove this. He intentionally undermined NATO. He revealed national security secrets in Oval Office a meeting with Russian diplomats. He abandoned our allies, the Kurds. He withdrew from the INF and Open Skies treaties at the very time that Russia has developed hypersonic nuclear missiles. He called for dramatic reductions of US troops in Europe. He held up military aid to an ally at war with Russia, making it a quid pro quo for getting dirt on Biden.
Trump made his first trip to Moscow way back in 1987, having been invited by the Russian ambassador, and was flown there on a KGB airplane.
Trump has been Moscow’s Asset Governing America for the entire time. He’s made this quite obvious, and it’s simply breathtaking that so many are totally willing to look the other way with regard to all this.
And all along, he heaped praise on his buddy Vlad.
But I imagine that there were a lot of Champaign corks popping in the Kremlin today. Vlad’s investment in the useful idiot paid off handsomely.
And still. Still. He has managed to remain the Teflon Don v2.0.
egads. First sentence should read: This was not the first act of treason from Vlad’s Agent Orange.
Yikes again. cx: Champagne. I’m exhausted. Making lots of errors in my posts. This has been a difficult day, watching this horror.
A day that will live in infamy. US citizens defiling the temple of democracy.
exactly
Hawley is dangerous. He is the ONLY legislator – Senate and House – who spoke into the camera! Every other person is talking to his/her colleagues in the chambers. He is as self-absorbed as the president.
His little speech? Cute catch phrases. “ballots to bullets” – – – and local news here (MO) showed the CAMPAIGN DONATION requests he was sending out DURING THE RIOT.
After Article 25 business in DC, states where those voting to deny this election should enact resignation campaigns.
Barack Obama (@BarackObama) Tweeted:
Here’s my statement on today’s violence at the Capitol. https://t.co/jLCKo2D1Ya
George Conway (@gtconway3d) Tweeted:
When the Capitol is cleared and secured, and the joint session of Congress and the electoral vote count is completed, the House and the Senate should proceed immediately to the impeachment and removal of @realDonaldTrump.
(Thanks to John Ogozalek, whose comment above inspired these thoughts.)
When we woke up this morning, little did we think January 6, 2021 would enter American historical consciousness as one of those enduring dates that causes us to measure the content of our collective character. But today was unique when compared to events or crises every generation must inevitably face. Instead of unifying our passions in service of national purpose, instead of mourning as one, instead of taking pride in achievement, we were forced to endure and witness one of the most shameful days in our history. We now understand that the idea of self-governance is indeed fragile; that the mob the framers of the Constitution rightly feared actually can exist. How will we respond? How will we, as a society, progress or not? Will the American experiment endure?
We asked the same questions after September 11, 2001, the last time our Capitol, our nation, was facing such a serious threat. The difference, as Rep. Steny Hoyer observed tonight, was then the enemy was from without, today it was from within. As we consider how to respond to today’s events—indeed the events of the last four-plus years—we should remember how those who first understood responded when they realized we were being attacked from without. The passengers of United flight 93 quickly understood their intended destination once it set in that their airplane was being hijacked. Average, anonymous Americans instinctively knew what the visceral symbolism of a plane crashing into the Capitol dome would represent. And they fought back. They gave their lives. They didn’t know or care that their personal sacrifice in service of the nation would be recognized by a national monument in Somerset, Pennsylvania. They acted. For the nation and, based on the spontaneous demonstrations in sympathy that sprouted around the globe, for humanity.
In perusing some of the coverage of today’s assault on the Capitol today in some western European press reports, they were not laughing at our nation. They were in shock and a state of disbelief. Those of us around the nation stopped what we were doing and remained glued to media outlets—most horrified (I hope), some cheering. But the unifying, universal principle was obvious: this was more than an offensive on a building or an election. It was an assault on the very idea of representative government. It had been simmering domestically since the days of the so-called tea party, the continued demonization of political opponents as un-American, the electoral college victory of the current president, and the politics and policies of division that sustained this president’s ego and allies. Foreign allies cringed and distanced themselves. American foreign policy turned inward, only reaching out to embrace repressive governments, dictatorships, and alliances of convenience, not mutual interest. The election of Joe Biden reopened the door of possibilities around the civilized world. Today’s events may have closed them, or at a minimum, a wariness will accompany every welcome to the Biden administration.
Will the response of the passengers on United flight 93 be a beacon for Americans who watched today’s events in utter horror? Will it cause us, We the People…, to accept the responsibility we have inherited? Will we once again reach out to work to create stable alliances of like-minded representative governments? Since much of the misguided frustration that led to storming the Capitol today is based on both an ignorance and misreading of historical experience, will we resolve to engage in the long-term commitment to civic education as an essential part of a well-rounded education to nurture reasoned skepticism that forms the foundation of civic virtue? Will the well-being of our citizenry take precedent over that of a select few? Will an accountability of past wrongs provide direction to address our nation’s opportunity?
Naysayers will dismiss these questions as being too little, too late, naïve, even. But they miss the point as much as the thugs who tried to steal today. This nation never was, never will be, about attaining an ideal. The answer can be found in the second clause of the Preamble of the Constitution. This nation, this People exists for one reason and one reason only: to “form a more perfect Union.” Are we ready, after the events of today, to act as quickly as the passengers of United flight 93 did to preserve their Capitol for the benefit of posterity? Are we ready to give our lives if it means a better world for our nation, our children? Today was a wake-up call. Are we ready for this moment or will it pass?
Wow. Thanks for taking a kernel of an idea and writing such a great piece, GregB. I couldn’t sleep so I finally figured I’d get up and do some school work. Of course, I came on here before doing the school work, ha, ha. Wonderful to see your words.
Greg’s voice should be the voice of the majority of Americans.
The Democratic and democratic rhetoric after yesterday’s sedition isn’t nearly forceful enough.
Trumpalqueda is the biggest extreme right wing domestic terrorist organization endorsed by the current US federal government, thanks to Bill Barr & the White House.
This is the sad day the US of A got demoted to the biggest and most fragile American Union in the 19th century.
Now we can surmise why Bill Barr resigned.
He enabled all of Trump’s worst impulses but (I assume) could not go along with inspiring an insurrection.
Nah, he would have gone along with that. He simply didn’t want to stay on the losing side. The same applies to McConnell, Graham, etc. They are politicians and most politicians don’t have firm principles, only a drive to increase their power.
MATE About Barr, you write: *. . . he would have gone along with that. He simply didn’t want to stay on the losing side. The same applies to McConnell, Graham, etc. They are politicians and most politicians don’t have firm principles, only a drive to increase their power.*
I think you are right. I mean, I LOVED what both McConnell and Graham said; but comparative videos of BOTH tell the true story . . . . Regardless of their beautiful speeches, and because of their de facto power, they BOTH share responsibility . . . with all of the others . . . for what happened yesterday.
Also, I think many go into Congress with firm principles, but the whole structure and system are set up to wear them down . . .until you end up with people like Hawley and politicians who are principle-free, except for the principle that supports them “staying on the winning side.” Like you, I think “not all,” but certainly way too many. CBK
The Orange A-hole finally conceded. Maybe he got frightened at the thought of permanently losing his Twitter fingers.
……………………………………….
Trump acknowledges end of presidency after Congress certifies Biden win
President Trump early Thursday morning acknowledged the end of his term, saying just minutes after Congress formally certified the Electoral College votes in favor of President-elect Joe Biden that there would be an “orderly transition of power” on Jan. 20.
Trump’s statement was shared through the Twitter account of White House aide and social media director Dan Scavino. Facebook and Twitter temporarily suspended the president from his social media accounts after posts about a pro-Trump mob that overran the Capitol on Wednesday ran afoul of platform guidelines.
Yeah, he would do anything to get his twitter account back. 🙂
Trump is a traitor to this country and should be put in prison for this and his many other crimes.
…………………………………..
One woman died after being shot on Capitol grounds, and three other people died following medical emergencies during the riot. The Capitol was finally cleared at 5:40 p.m. ET, and all in all, 52 people were arrested. Elsewhere across the nation, smaller but similar scenes unfolded, including in front of Georgia’s capitol building and the governor’s mansion in Washington state.
World response: US allies and adversaries looked on in shock and revulsion at yesterday’s events. British Prime Minister Boris Johnson condemned the “disgraceful scenes in US Congress.” German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas compared the violence to the Nazis burning the Reichstag parliament building in 1933, saying, “The enemies of democracy will rejoice at these inconceivable images.” Iranian President Hassan Rouhani called Trump a “sick person” who had disgraced his country. Top diplomats and leaders in Iceland, France, Austria, Poland, Ecuador, Colombia and Scotland, among others, reminded the US of its role as a global model of democracy. Russian President Vladimir Putin has been notably silent so far.
What happens next: The US Secret Service is significantly ramping up coverage and bringing more agents to the White House in the wake of the scenes of domestic terror. Trump, meanwhile, issued a statement pledging an “orderly” transition on January 20 — but not without baselessly reiterating that he still thinks the election was stolen from him. The President’s ongoing refusal to accept reality has led to concern, both within the White House and beyond, over what Trump may do — and how his supporters, rivals and, indeed, the world will respond — in his final two weeks in office.
“Iranian President Hassan Rouhani called Trump a “sick person””
Well, are McConell or Graham healthy?
Máté Wierdl: “Iranian President Hassan Rouhani called Trump a “sick person””Well, are McConell or Graham healthy?
Is it possible that Rouhani doesn’t understand the workings of our government?
I am celebrating that McConnell is GONE from being majority leader in the Senate on Jan. 20. Hoo-rah! for the wonderful people in Georgia.
carolmalaysia We should all be aware that there was a quite large PRO-TRUMP march in Japan yesterday, with signs and Trump flags, etc. . . . per BBC News. CBK
David Cicilline (@davidcicilline) Tweeted:
NEW: I am sending a letter with @RepTedLieu and our colleagues on the House Judiciary Committee, calling on Vice President Pence to invoke the 25th Amendment to remove Donald Trump from office after today’s events. https://t.co/5VK8DLTLn4
A growing number of civic and business leaders called on members of his cabinet to invoke the 25th Amendment and declare him unfit for office.
Some prominent Democrats have also called for Trump to be re-impeached immediately, calling it the best way to ensure his removal from office and avoid any further violence before Biden enters the White House.
Representative Ilhan Omar of Minnesota tweeted yesterday that she would draw up articles of impeachment. “We can’t allow him to remain in office, it’s a matter of preserving our Republic and we need to fulfill our oath,” she wrote. A number of other House Democrats expressed their support for the move.
And Representative Hakeem Jeffries, the chair of the House Democratic caucus, said in an interview with ABC News that “all options should be on the table” with regard to removing the president from office.
I think the attack on the Capitol is not an overreaction but completely appropriate to the significance of the elections and especially to the Georgia runoff one the day before. The Old Order understands, it was delivered a fatal blow.
Neither Trump nor the assorted milita thugs, rabblerousers and rwnutjobs that stormed the Senate at his urging are part of the Old Order. That would be McConnell, Graham, et al, whose reaction [post-Senate-storming reality check] was a pivot to conciliatory, carefully-worded attempts to straddle—simultaneously– the Constitution and the lunatic fringe of their constituents.
As to forgetting this quickly (your second post), bad idea. Legislative & executive branches going forward need to be actively restrained from a return to the verbal sowing of division and dissention that has been going on to one degree or another since Gingrich.
I expect Biden will handle that OK w/the executive branch (tho he may occasionally need to muzzle Harris’ tendencies in that direction).
As to the House, which as the common folks’ representation is generally allowed more flexibility on incivility, there’s a detailed article here on the issue: https://www.congressionalinstitute.org/2020/01/31/how-the-house-promotes-civility-on-the-floor-taking-a-look-at-taking-words-down/
My problem here– & with the Senate as well: tho calumny against individual representatives is addressed in rules (thus could be better controlled/ enforced by leaders), there are altogether too many aspersions cast on the opposite party as a whole, or on liberals/ conservatives, including veiled references to untrammeled capitalists/ all-out socialists.
I dunno. Instead of being bogged down by the attack on the Capitol, we should celebrate the Georgia runoff elections. Based on what I saw on TV and heard on NPR, women with huge voices and oratory talent got the votes out. The effect of their work will not be not confined to Atlanta or Georgia, but will adjust the balance of power in the whole US favorably and hence will make changes in the whole World. Even with the best telescope we can’t see the waves of this ripple effect.
Yeah, arrest Trump or put him in a mental institution along with his buddies in the Senate and House, but let’s forget them quickly and energize ourselves with the view of the future which has become much brighter and crisper than it appeared even a couple of days ago.
The “balance of power” that you describe is what is so threatening to the leaders of conservative religion.
Linda I think they’re getting a wake-up call like the rest of Congress and those “both sides are nice” people. If anything shows the value of secular government . . . where FREEDOM of religion is central, yesterday was it. CBK
“FREEDOM of religion is centra”
Government should be free from religion.
Mate It’s a tense relationship between the power and authority of religion and of the secular state . . . that would become a horror if either were to eliminate the other.
That’s why the founders put it in the First Amendment along with speech, the press, and assembly. Religion is the first mentioned, actually.
Congress held a prayer after yesterday’s affirmation of Biden’s new presidency. Nancy Pelosi, who is no schlump when it comes to supporting freedom and “the people,” crossed herself.
It’s the secular state that, in giving freedom of religious expression, keeps “religions” from warring with each other. CBK
Holding a prayer in Congress is a big issue, imo. What would they said if somebody takes out the little carpet, puts it down on the floor, turns east and starts praying frequently, saying “Allah” and such? What is somebody takes out a flag with Marx’s face on it?
I do not understand this stuff at all, like Congress “praying together’.
Mate I admire your openness. I think the prayer, however, is commonly ecumenical and meant to be that way. CBK
Yeah, but what does it do in a government which is supposed to be separated from religion? Besides, people who are not religious do not pray, so such praying parties by no means can be inclusive of them. While government can and should be all inclusive, no religious gathering or ceremony can be one.
Religion is a private matter so keep it private along with all the other private matters. Public praying, in my view, is offensive. Why would I have to listen to people who talk about something which makes no sense to me? They then usually turn to me with a smile and say “But my God loves you too.” as if the feelings of a questionable entity should comfort me in any way. State championship soccer games, gymnastic competitions, public school gatherings all excuses for praying here and one cannot walk away as you could under normal circumstances.
Mate It’s “Congress,” and at its core a recognition of what we do not know. Also, religion IS a private matter, but is not merely that, and has never been. CBK
Mate-
After the insurrection, in the comments made by members of Congress during the continuation of the meeting to vote on certification, one member said, “We are a nation governed by God’s laws…”
It’s very dangerous rhetoric understanding that authoritarianism’s interpretation of God’s laws has historically prevailed.
The Catholic schools (e.g. Covington Catholic in McConnell’s state) which have students recite the Catholic version of the Pledge of Allegiance is also frightening. The Catholic version adds, “Justice and liberty for the born and unborn”. What will Catholics add or delete next? The big tent has failed to protect America’s Pledge of Allegiance
indicating their lack of influence.
Mate The snake under the table at the inception of the Constitution finally stuck its head up . . . . CBK
CBK & Mate: Have you read “Submission” by Houllebecq? It’s a near-future fantasy, based on the not-so-crazy premise that socialist & Muslim parties unite to defeat National Front populists, who have gained ground in reaction to France’s years of enforced PC secularism– resulting in a French Caliphate!
No, I haven’t read it, bethree5. Synopsis?
LOL, not for one such as me to summarize. I give you instead Karl Ove Knausgaard’s NYT book review:
Fully expected- media and Cory Booker, as a representative of Congress, observed and identified the Confederate flag but, neither was willing to call out the Christian flag (a red cross against a blue background) that flew during the same insurrection yesterday.
There was a large truck outside the Capitol with a huge banner: JESUS 2020
What was in the truck, I wonder.
I wonder what happened to Jesus 2021.
Dead for one year longer than in 2020.
Diane I also saw a “Trump flag” . . . they were trying to replace the American flag with it.
As far as Jesus is concerned . . . what a horrible distortion of the New Testament. They embarrass the hell out of me. CBK
The mob did replace the American flag flying over the Capitol with a Trump flag.
Linda If you mean they are not rabid atheists, you are probably right.
Like most of us, they know that the intruders/insurrectionists do not represent HUGE numbers of Americans nor the Constitution, they do not represent Christianity, nor HUGE numbers of us who call ourselves Christian and practice Christianity, nor any reasonable interpretations of the Christian texts, nor the centuries of thoughtful scholarship that surround them.
My guess is that most understand this: that you can put them in the same category as Jim Jones, Fallwell, Jr., with his zipper undone, or those other lowlife evangelicals who hawk their goods and who, nevertheless, call themselves Christian.
Linda, you can put your anti-religion wedge away. Everyone knows you cannot argue reasonably with ANY of those people. I have people in my family . . . it’s pointless . . . the whole thing is sickening. CBK
I didn’t know there was a “Christian” flag. Whose is it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Flag
Oh yeh Greg– I saw it.
“Linda, you can put your anti-religion wedge away.” Second the motion, CBK– & you too, Mâté.
The stormers of the Senate raise whatever flag floats their anarchist boat. They (and their running dogs watching the action on TV) are scared conservative cultists leaning on the ideology-du-jour that resolves the cognitive dissonance created by Biden-Warnock-Ossoff wins. They will blame deep state or antifa or liberals or socialists or mail-in votes or tinkered Dominion voting machines [Column A], & many will add Christ to Trump’s Column B.
That Christian flag says nothing about whether our Constitutionally-organized big umbrella can accommodate everyone from the Puritans who came over in 1620 to recent Buddhist and Hindi arrivals, and everyone in-between, without becoming an arid PC anti-religious desert.
““Linda, you can put your anti-religion wedge away.” Second the motion, CBK– & you too, Mâté.”
I dunno what you call us to do, but I am by no means anti-religious. I am just anti mass brainwashing, be it a Christian mass, or a Marxist, twitter, facebook, fascist propaganda event. You cannot allow these events and then say, people should be free to think for themselves. It’s like saying, people are free to swim but it’s also allowed to chain people’s hands and feet together. In my view, these are exactly the two conflicting freedoms the current formulation of the First Amendment declares as basic human rights.
Mate “I am just anti mass brainwashing, be it a Christian mass, or a Marxist, twitter, facebook, fascist propaganda event.”
ME, TOO. CBK
me three
So then we egree that the 1st amendment has a problem, and religious activities should be controlled and handled similarly to mass media: either confine it to small gatherings or public proclamations need to be heavily censored.
From the evidence I’ve seen, Linda is consistent, she doesn’t hide in the labyrinths of caveats. It is interesting that some–including me–will condemn the flag of the so-called confederacy because its meaning is clear. On the other hand, the comment above claims the christian flag “says nothing…” But it says something definite to those who wave its or any other flag, for that matter. It represents blind obedience over reason. No caveats.
Bethree
As I interpret your point, if Jewish people are not concerned about a Christian flag waved at a white nationalist coup, then others should not be concerned. By extended reasoning, if conservative Christian and Catholic anti-abortionists are embedded in the white nationalism movement, there should be no concern from women.
I interpret that you believe there are no indicators that the religion of Hawley, Cruz, Robert George, Laura Ingraham,… could be turned against minority religions. The backstop is the big tent that has historically collaborated with or failed to prevent the discrimination and carnage done in the name of their religion.
The fact that Hawley ruined Bogren’s reputation with the labeling of anti-religious bigot when the man merely defended civil law against religious opinion, doesn’t worry enough people so, it shouldn’t be a concern.
I see your point, if Jewish people aren’t worried, why would the issue be skin off of the nose of a white person raised Christian. It’s not as if white nationalists have attacked American synagogues. It’s not as if
the handwriting on the wall can be discerned from discrete events when connected.
“…if Jewish people are not concerned about a Christian flag waved at a white nationalist coup, then others should not be concerned…”
That’s just plain weird. Jewish exceptionalism? Should those who are not Jewish, following this logic, be concerned about those sporting “Camp Auschwitz” or “6MWE” clothing? American synagogues been attacked and many still have constant heavy security (Poway, CA, Pittsburgh, PA). Charlottesville chants? Please let us know about which public expressions of bigotry we should be concerned.
GregB In our country, the issue is freedom of speech, which will always be with us . . . hopefully. CBK
“GregB In our country, the issue is freedom of speech, which will always be with us . . . hopefully. CBK”
Hopefully not in its present vague and hence hazardous form.
Mate That vagueness, as you refer to it, is where our freedoms can manifest themselves, at least what we have of them. What lies between that vague generality of rules and rights, and the concrete expression and our freedoms is our own understanding, judgments, decisions and actions. One of the beauties of the Constitution and our general laws and rights is that they leave room for the human mind and for the changes of historical circumstances . . . in the concrete, rarely if ever is everything exactly the same.
To prescribe every detail of freedom of speech beforehand, for example, and as you seem to suggest, is to erase our freedoms to understand and decide for ourselves. And BTW our courts are where that tensional relationship is played out . . . every day. CBK
As Jan. 6. and the last 4 years clearly showed, these loosely formulated ideas are not sufficient for a constitution in modern times. You assume that these huge problems of lack of control of rogue elements and behavior will somehow organically resolve themselves without having sharpened guiding light of clearly outlined some basic principles. Other countries all over the world have realized the issues, and they made eforts to adjust their basic laws to basic human behaviors, but humans in the US apparently are special, they just behave differently from humans elsewhere.
Modern laws are not supposed to assume, for example, that people are trustworthy and decent or are the opposite. They need to work in any circumstance.
The latest problem: apparently the president has sole authority in deciding whom to strike with nuclear weapons and when. This is because the law assumes the president is trustworthy and decent. If our twittering Trumpkin decides to lauch a nuclear strike during the weekend, all we can do is watch what will unfold on Fox or on Twitter. Nancy Pelosi and Congress will do the same since they are as helpless as the rest of us.
So no, under-specified freedoms provided by a constitution end up giving freedoms only to a small group of people and hence they are insufficient for a democracy.
Mate First, apparently Nancy Pelosi has had some correspondence with Pentagon officials about using the “codes” and the military in these last days of Trump . . . with some assurances in response. (I read and watch so much news these days, I cannot remember where I read or saw that, but probably the Washington Post . . . it’s probably Googleable.)
But second, you write: “these huge problems of lack of control of rogue elements and behavior will somehow organically resolve themselves without having sharpened guiding light of clearly outlined some basic principles.”
It’s not “somehow organically. . . .” Unless you are referring to education as that “somehow.” If that’s what you mean, then from a long-term view, we are in failure mode where that failure came manifest clearly this week . . . which is why, in my view, PUBLIC education is so important. (Did you see the commentary about Hawley’s education?)
But it’s a matter of ordering ourselves thoughtfully and reasonably to the problems we find ourselves in, correcting and adjusting the laws as we undergo change. The relationship of general laws to specific circumstances is a metaphysical reality underpinning history. . . I was talking about how, politically, democracy as a generalized political structure and for all its flaws, reflects that reality . . . rather than distorting that relationship with prescriptions for every movement, as with forms of totalitarianism and, therefore, eliminating freedoms that allow for, but do not guarantee, creative change. CBK
CBK, if the basic laws (the Constitution) are incorrect, the derived laws will not be correct. It doesn’t matter how much you try. This is a basic principle in logic.
You have been suggesting that if we organize ourselves properly, educate, things will work out. This is an impossibility. See above.
Here is an example: the restrictions on free speech that are needed to make sure public invitation for insurrection (as it happened on Jan. 6) doesn’t happen contradict the 1st amendment. Sooner or later, the Supreme Court will point this out, and ThugInChief will be allowed to use mass media to promote a cue.
Mate “if the basic laws (the Constitution) are incorrect, the derived laws will not be correct. It doesn’t matter how much you try. This is a basic principle in logic.”
The basic laws (the Constitution) are not “incorrect.” As we began this discussion, they are generalized . . . enough to invite the questions, nuances of interpretation, “construal,” and application to concrete circumstances through derived laws, which CAN be changed according to the movement of history, and still fall under the generalized Constitution.
That’s the beauty of it . . . but as you seem to also understand, it’s also WHY the spirit of it can be violated by someone like Trump but, more importantly, by his followers. Democracy means power in the people. . . . the worst system, except for all of the others. CBK
CBK, Let us say, we have the following law
1) Everybody has the right to eat for free.
If you later say, I need to modify this to “Everybody has the right to eat for free, except Bob”, you not only changed 1), you in fact declared that it’s incorrect, since it’s not the case that everybody can eat for free.
In other words, if you find a circumstance when the statement in a law is incorrect, the law is incorrect. If you say all 100 cows in the barn are brown and I find one which is white, you were not correct.
Science has developed a great deal since the 18th century and one of the crucial developments was to figure out exactly what is precise and what is not and how to formulate statements completely precisely. Without this knowledge, there would be no computers. The US Constitution has not kept up with this development. The Constitution is not flexible, it’s imprecise and that means, by definition and by the above examples, it’s incorrect.
Mate You have given extremely abstract, cut and dried examples that have little to do with human affairs or how history works its way out, . . . which may include, but that is far and away more nuanced and complex than, natural science, mathematics, or anything systematics. Similarly, general laws and rights, such as are stated and enumerated in the U.S. Constitution, are far and away more appropriate to fully human, cultural, and historical affairs.
In brief, that generality “fits” human situations where it takes a developed and mature mind, or better, a collection of minds, to mediate general rules about human affairs rightly into a history that is never the same from one event to another. It’s a mind, and not a law, that has any hope of mediating general order into specific situations. It would be a horror show like no other if there were a law to govern every detail.
Also, people on this site and other educational sites I visit are always referring to the humanities, arts, social sciences, etc., for the same reasons. The natural and physical sciences, and mathematics, are important, even essential to education in our time; but are far from sufficient to prepare people to live in those same, or I might say any times–the worse for their thinking that, if we have knowledge only of the earlier, we have no need of the later in order to live well with others or to govern ourselves. CBK
Mass media is privately owned and can bar whoever they like if they don’t follow their rules. Aside from that, the Constitution is a broad framework. It is not intended to answer every question of law. I suppose that means that an originalist Court could knock down all traffic laws because cars and rules of the road are not mentioned in the Constitution. I’m sure there are much better examples of what I am trying to say but being neither a Constitutional lawyer nor historian, I am constrained by my own ignorance.
Someone said on Twitter about the banning of Trump: Pretend that Twitter is a Christian baker and Trump is a gay wedding cake. Then it all makes sense!
I meant coup. As for Pelosi’s inquiry: according NPR, the reply of military leaders was not exactly comforting.
The president of the United States has sole authority to order a nuclear strike, and the decision does not have to be approved by Congress or the military.
So once again, the law is wrong and it’s up to military leaders to do the “right thing”—whatever the “right thing” in their interpretation is.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pelosi-joint-chiefs-of-staff-preventing-trump-nuclear-strike/
Mate It comes down to trust in the people, which, in any one circumstance, may or may not be warranted. But that’s the point of education. It won’t put out fires, but it will fertilize the land long before the fires start.
You might want to look at (if you haven’t already) that PBS Frontline program called “A Thousand Cuts.” (Google it?) It really points to exactly what we are talking about here. CBK
When I am worried about the US initiating a nuclear strike, I don’t want to investigate whom I can trust among our leaders, I want to be able to read the appropriate two sentences in the lawbook, and go to bed with the exact knowledge I was seeking.
Ambiguity in what leaders of a civilized country can do is unacceptable.
Mate Ambiguity . . . no. An experienced, knowledgeable, reasonable, well-grounded person in power, who knows their political ground, making decisions in the here and now . . . yes. CBK
Can’t wait for theaters to open and get packed so that I can use my freedom of speech to yell “Fire!”
GregB Oh, yes. Freedom of speech means we can yell “fire” in a crowded theatre.
Are you kidding? or perhaps just baiting with simplistic statements? . . . <–in which case I am disappointed in you. We hashed out many nuances of freedom of speech issues in high school and then again in political philosophy. . . . issues which I thought you’d be quite well-aware of.
But really, offending someone by flying a (religious or whatever) flag on a van reveals the importance of living by the rule of law, rights, and THEN by a basic respect for one’s fellow travelers. Without that basic respect, however, rooted in a sense of national community, the tension of such conflicts and offenses shifts to rights and the law . . . too much, and too little tolerance and care, and it’s liable to break down.
Also, as you well know, laws governing the Capitol buildings differ, as do Federal from State. Apparently MANY were broken on Wednesday. In any case, lawful pursuit of offenders takes time, which in most cases is a good thing . . . allowing for reflection and self-reflection for all concerned. “Fire!” CBK
Every person who unlawfully entered the Capitol should have been arrested.
Anti-abortion politician, Assemblyman Colin Schmitt, stated that he was asked to speak, by Right to Life, to the rally goers aboard two buses from Orange County, New York. In the Times Herald, he defended his involvement before the buses’ departure. Schmitt attended D.C.’s Catholic University of America.
Máté 1/8 4:58pm: “the christian flag… says something definite to those who wave its or any other flag, for that matter. It represents blind obedience over reason.”
Perhaps in a particular flag-waver’s mind, although here you seem to be saying anyone waving any flag is a victim of “blind obedience over reason.” Should we stop people from waving flags we don’t like—or worse, prevent the flag-waver’s thoughts/ words/ implications from appearing in any government context? You’re never going to know what’s in a flag-waver’s mind and you certainly have no legal right to exclude their thoughts or flags from the public commons.
This is what I was getting at with “becoming an arid PC anti-religious desert.” Religion-free government as you describe it strikes me as some sort of Enlightenment utopia that has never existed. My utopia has probably never existed either. I picture the colorful mix of every tribe/ religion imaginable in the bustling medieval centers of Euro-central Asian trade– without the crusades.
bethree5 There is a place for recognizing that and what we do not know, and so for mystery . . . and throughout history humans have asked the “beyond” question and made sacred places to manifest their recognition of that in many ways. The problem has always been, however, pretending to know what we do not know, and making “hard” doctrine about it. Political control usually follows.
But then you can say the same about people like Stalin. CBK
This was a great conversation, Máté and CBK, thanks! The only hole I spotted: Máté I think you forgot about the ‘yelling fire in a crowded theater’ exception to 1st Amendment [OWHolmes 1919 Schenk v US, as modified by Brandenberg v Ohio 1969. I see GregB picked up on that already. Please remember that if the Constitution were an exhaustive list of every specific thing that’s against the law, we wouldn’t need a court system.
If the Constitution was properly written as clearly formulated basic laws and not wishes about well behaved citizens then the derived laws (which address specific cases) would require much less interpreters, and yes, we’d need much less judges, lawyers, CPAs. It’s not an objective necessity to have one of the highest density of lawyer population in the world. It certainly is not the sign of a sophisticated civilization or a refined Constitution. It’s rather the indication of enormous complexities and ambiguities of the system of laws.
No freedoms should be declared without indication of the existence of caveats or they will be misused and will give freedoms only to a few. The caveats are not to be specifically described in the basic laws; that’s the job of the derived laws.
What I do not understand in CBK’s objections is her insistence that the Constitution is perfect as it is, and advances in science, language and logic cannot be applied to it.
Mate you write: “No freedoms should be declared without indication of the existence of caveats or they will be misused and will give freedoms only to a few.”
It’s a resort to “the people” and their responsibility to live in and create a climate for democratic living . . . who, as we know, need to be educated in order to live well with others in that climate. We the people make the culture, and a culture itself keeps educating BEFORE in the family, and far beyond when we leave our formal institutions. However; if the culture itself is so corrupt that you cannot live in it without engaging in corruption, or becoming corrupt yourself, then you go hide yourself while others destroy it, or you try to make it better . . . our “better angels” and those long curves that bend towards justice.
**”The caveats are not to be specifically described in the basic laws; that’s the job of the derived laws.”*
Yes, but the next “lower” level is the courts who deal with the specifics of cases and the particular people in them . . . with their minds and good training and education: Lawyers to defend and prosecute (for the people and for the state), the jury to mediate with the citizens, and the judge to specialize in the law and drop the gavel.
History is such that even “derived laws” cannot meet its exigencies of detail. . . and again, we wouldn’t WANT that for the same reasons we don’t want driverless cars . . . those developers are missing the same insight about history. It’s open-ended . . . we cannot make a complete system of it, on principle.
MATE: “What I do not understand in CBK’s objections is her insistence that the Constitution is perfect as it is, and advances in science, language and logic cannot be applied to it.”
I don’t think the U.S. Constitution is perfect, though it’s close for a political document in my view. But the generality of it does two things: (1) it allows for that same moderation of mind (in my above paragraph) and (2) within that generality and moderation people with good minds and good character and intentions, WE, can find the right applications and omissions for such “advances.”
These are the people who NOW are sticking with their oath of office. WHERE WOULD WE BE WITHOUT THEM. They are the interface between US helpless folks and totalitarian violence.
The other thing is this: The U.S. Constitution and our other founding documents are not science and should not be. Nor are they poetry, but they are both full of truth and close to being a kind of political poetry. And such writings, as with good poetry, are good because they are comprehensive enough to reflect human reality, and to speak truth and good to every generation. CBK
Come on, Catherine, what you are saying is that laws need to assume a certain kind of education of the people, otherwise they can necessarily be misunderstood and misused.
So we must understand the following fine print to any constitution about assumptions and possible side effects
If the people of the United States of America are educated in this and this, and are well behaved, the above laws will be good for them. Otherwise, we don’t take responsibility for how these laws will work out, and chaos or coup are possible.
No, people who misuse laws are usually smart, well educated people, and they are also told what morale and good behavior is.
It was the mistake of the dreamers of Communism who assumed that people can be educated to be good and decent. Back then, we were told this all the time.
We can and should give more credit for our ability to create laws that clearly describe their scope and intent, without the possibility for misinterpretation by rogue elements.
Mate There is no such thing as a law that cannot be misrepresented and misinterpreted, as you seem to think, or just ignored as Trump does. That’s exactly why education of “the people” is so very important to the maintenance of a democracy. It’s the only starting place that can actually work over the long term.
I mean no offense by saying this but I think you are the dreamer . . . only in a totalitarian
political situation is there even a (false) hope of putting everything in closed box where there is no allowance or need for change, and no possibility of failure <–that’s your dream? I think a false idealism is driving a good part of this whole problem, actually. Thinking, and being in a reasonable if extended dialogue . . . the lifes-blood of the great experiment . . . is not for sissies, or “puxxxxs” (to use the violent idealists’ favorite reference).
In my view, the founders were quite aware of the (odd) permanence of change, aka their place in moving history, and how we move FORWARD to betterment rather than backwards with tribal paint on our faces, through the openness of dialogue (freedom of speech) and the rule of law (blindfolds on Lady Justice, and presenting of the evidence). Closing everything off with totalitarian law was not what they were thinking of, but trying to protect us from. CBK
The system I am talking about is much more flexible than the current one; in computer science, it’s called “modular design”. But fine, you don’t even want to consider it or “educate yourself” about it, and instead you keep repeating that such a system doesn’t exist and the current one is perfect.
Mate Hmmm. . . show me where I said the Constitution is perfect? And it’s not a “system,” but again, a Constitution general enough to deal well with the nuances and changes of history . . . a history that is open-ended.
Also, what you are talking about, even a “flexible system,” is not for me to educate myself about. It’s rather an example of ideas based on bad metaphysics and, again, a false idealism probably based on the contemptuous independence . . . and arrogance . . . of scientists who think they need not account for their own psychological, social, moral, ethical, political or even spiritual development, even to themselves.
In the end, if implemented, such a “flexible” system will be totalitarian, at least for awhile until we self-destruct because of it and the total loss of creativity–just another version of scientists’ arrogance, and nothing near humane. Such thinking is not so far from Trumpism as some might think. CBK
You have got to be kidding me, Catherine. You have managed to tie together scientists, these creativity-free individuals, and Trumpists in this gorgeous and fragrant flower bouquet. Wow.
Mate I was going to leave this alone but thought it needed a response:
“You have got to be kidding me, Catherine. You have managed to tie together scientists, these creativity-free individuals, and Trumpists in this gorgeous and fragrant flower bouquet. Wow.”
It’s a not-so-uncommon case where extremely “creativity-free individuals” can press their vibrant creativity, ironically, to create a systematic situation where creativity, or just plain thinking into new situations, is diminished down to its nub (1984?). These creative individuals didn’t get that way by living in a system that seeks to order everything according to some techno-fascist’s plan, and so tacitly eliminates with their creativity the groundwork for the very creativity that you and I so rightly admire.
BTW, in its odd way, that’s what over-testing is about, or putting too much trust in the test’s ability to tell us exactly what is going on in students’ educational development, regardless of what might influence them when they turn 40.
There is an analogous relationship, then, between closed-as-can-be systematics, over-testing, and Trump’s desire to be the end-all totalitarian in bending EVERYONE and EVERYTHING to his will.
I think we need to get on with the present situation, but I thought your note deserved a response. CBK
Catherine, I am ignoring the part where you dig even deeper and give further details of your dismal opinion about scientists and science, completely misunderstanding and misjudging their role in our lives.
According to most European laws, our president would be in prison by now, while our highly sophisticated laws let him run free to cause further harm. This difference in effectiveness is not due to the differences between American and European education. Humans behave the same everywhere.
Indeed, education can deal with only 1% of our behavior, and it takes years for it to take effect, while laws can immediately control the remaining 99% of our behavior which is the product 1 billion years of evolution and has stayed uneffected by 100 thousand years of civilization. Even if given a few decades, education will not succeed in putting TraitoInChief in prison, while proper laws can be applied immediately, without delay.
I am in a business (mathematical research) which will have fruits decades from now at best. I am not fooling myself otherwise. I am hence puzzled by your belief in education’s overarching role in such events as the attack on the Capitol last Wednesday.
Mate An addendum: I have made the argument here before that they are not ‘well-educated.’ Maybe well-trained or well-degreed, but not well-educated. If they are intelligent (as is obvious in some cases), they have misused their intelligence at the service of their character-flaws, moral degeneracy, and spiritual emptiness.
The people who are presently protecting us are, again, the ones who are interfacing we the people from totalitarian violence WITH their adherence to the rule of law, the Constitution (their oaths), and with a pure sense of honor and courage. Those people will need their own Hall of Fame, if we ever get over this and get on with becoming a democracy-in-fact. CBK
I remark that Fox was on the opinion that while attacking the Capitol was a mistake, the underlying issue, namely the stolen election needs to be addressed, or the generated anger (signified by the attack on the Capitol) won’t go away.
Who is going to close Fox’s account on TV?
Romney was right yesterday when he said that you can’t convince people of something that never happened. They are delusional. Our duty, he said, is to tell them the truth.
Diane Not as long as their ears are closed? CBK
Right on, Diane. As Martin says in “The Cambridge Companion to Atheism,” [Advocates] of the presumption of atheism… insist that it is precisely the absence of evidence for theism that justifies their claim that God does not exist. The problem with such a position is captured neatly by the aphorism, beloved of forensic scientists, that “absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” The absence of evidence is evidence of absence only in cases in which, were the postulated entity to exist, we should expect to have more evidence of it than we do.”
If you need to assume the existence of a supernatural being to explain yourself why there is life or the Universe, fine. I doubt any scientist could (or would) argue against it successfully. The problems begin with this worshipping, praying and other attempts to communicate with the super natural. Max Born (imo, the wisest physicist) says this
There are two objectionable types of believers: those who believe the incredible, and those who believe that “belief” must be discarded and replaced by “the scientific method”.
“The problems begin with this worshipping, praying and other attempts to communicate with the super natural. ” When does this become a problem, and for whom? Re: Born statement: who decides what’s “incredible”?
I gave concrete examples. Can you imagine that it’s offensive for somebody to listen to praying and not having the option not to listen? If you think, one has options to avoid such situations, just think about what it takes to take a knee for a football player during the Anthem.
How long are you willing to listen to a crowd of adults who pray to Santa Claus?
Where do you stop accepting widely publicized references to nonexistent beings, their miraculous activities and their supposed rules for humanity? Where does misleading of people begin?
If you claim the existence of a being nobody has ever seen, then we have an “incredible” being. If you claim that the Universe or humans were created by somebody, then we are talking about incredible events.
It’ seasy to convince somebody about incredible things as soon as you gained their trust. I did such a good job with making my daughter to belive in Santa Claus that I had to talk her out of this belief when she was too old to try to convince her bemused friends about the existence of SC.
As I said, individuals can believe anything they want but when they are out to convert a huge mass of people to their beliefs, we have a problem, and the problem is not imagined.
I’ve been writing on this blog – for years – that the core mission of public schooling should be education for democratic citizenship, with a focus on the core values and principles embedded in the Constitution.
Not Advanced Placement courses and tests. Not STEM. Not “getting into college.”
Democratic citizenship.
Isn’t that even clearer now?
democracy It’s hardly the time or context to discuss educational theory with any depth . . . that said, and to mirror your note, children are not born in a democratic state; but rather are at first and rightly tribal.
It’s children’s development as human beings that makes them ABLE to live in a democracy and to carry it forward . . . and that is the job of education. It’s not a replacement of other knowledge fields, but speaks to the psychological, social, ethical and political foundation for STEM and all of those other knowledge fields. CBK
Yup. Definitely up there on the list.
“Democratic citizenship.”
I see endless debates about what this means, people throwing around big generic words like “freedom”, “equality”, “justice”, “morale”, “constitution”. No, this is not the core purpose of education.
I agree with the obvious need for civics ed, but caution that that is all pubschs can do, and it will never be enough, it’s just our piece. Remember, per studies, we are about a 14% influence on attitudes bred by family/ social influence. Do not fall in w/ those who expect pubschs to solve the ills of society, and call them failures for not doing so. All we can do is our piece: teaching kids how to be active, responsible citizens. Meanwhile as adults we have to agitate for social change in the larger sphere.
If I had had to rely on my parents to learn about our system of government, I would be almost as ignorant of what it is and how it works as the people who stormed the Capitol. They voted regularly and my father ran for the school board. My mother was a member of the League of Women Voters although I had no idea what they did. It did make an impression on me when a friend asked me if I was still her friend because her father opposed my father for another term as BOE President. My father had never said a thing to me and didn’t take the opposition personally. They disagreed over whether it was necessary to go to referendum to increase funding. My father lost, but after they had to cut several popular programs, they ended up approving a referendum. So I suppose I learned about the peaceful transfer of power. When I think about it, democratic practice was woven into both home and school activities, right down to the way we chose team captains at play. School government was important and taken seriously. I can’t believe that some of these people didn’t have similar experiences growing up although I have to admit that high school rivalries could get rather testy.
I’m more interested in a widespread sense of civic virtue based on individual and societal ethics. If that happens, I believe the democratic part naturally follows.
On another note, I missed the memo. When did civic education become civics education?
Trump banned from Facebook indefinitely, CEO Mark Zuckerberg says
The move follows temporary bans of Trump’s accounts by both Twitter and Facebook.
BREAKING: Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg said in a post that the social media giant was banning President Trump indefinitely, a sign of escalated actions by tech giants in the face of growing social unrest at end of Trump’s term in office.
“We believe the risks of allowing the President to continue to use our service during this period are simply too great,” he wrote. “Therefore, we are extending the block we have placed on his Facebook and Instagram accounts indefinitely and for at least the next two weeks until the peaceful transition of power is complete…
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/01/07/trump-twitter-ban/
Pompeo calls for prosecution of Capitol rioters
01/06/21 07:16 PM EST
Secretary of State Mike Pompeo condemned the storming of the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday calling for justice to be brought against criminals who engaged in rioting.
“The storming of the U.S. Capitol today is unacceptable. Lawlessness and rioting — here or around the world — is always unacceptable,” Pompeo tweeted Wednesday evening.
“I have travelled to many countries and always support the right of every human being to protest peacefully for their beliefs and their causes. But violence, putting at risk the safety of others including those tasked with providing security for all of us, is intolerable both at home and abroad. Let us swiftly bring justice to the criminals who engaged in this rioting.”…
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/533028-pompeo-calls-for-prosecution-of-capitol-rioters
My guess is, even IF Trump got on twitter and ADMITTED that he has been lying all this time, and that his followers were the Dupes of the Century, that they would believe him. CBK
Josh Hawley, whose views about Congress’ role in certification echo Trump’s and the seditionists, is characterized in a Think Progress article (6-14-2019). The article reports about a lawyer’s reputation damaged by Hawley’s false portrayal of him as an anti-religious bigot. The article describes Hawley as “using democratic institutions to seize power” and as wanting “unconstrained power over liberal democratic norms”.
The article’s title, “The one man most likely to turn the U.S. into a theocracy”.
Understanding Hawley is valuable in understanding the threat to the U.S.
Linda It’s a good thing, then, that Hawley is becoming more and more isolated. As a Congressperson said on the news a few moments ago, the water is churning with rats as they leave the sinking ship.
But as long as “we” focus on the extremes and ignore the entire rest of heart of religious people in our culture, we fall into the opposite extreme, on the same ignorant plane that religious extremists are in. CBK
The Think Progress article is enlightening, as is your previous post on Hawley’s participation in a 2019 anti-abortion rally. However, he apparently does not invoke religion on the floor of the Senate. MSM analyses of Hawley in the wake of his recent limelight do not even mention his religiosity. George Will has him pegged as a politician whose ambition “leads [him] outside the boundaries of democracy, which is where Hawley now finds himself. In the cause of his own advancement, the senator from Missouri is willing to endorse the disenfranchisement of millions of Americans — particularly voters of color — and justify the attempted theft of an election. He is willing to credit malicious lies that will poison our democracy for generations,” etc.
Hopefully Hawley’s comet 😉 will be die a swift political death due to his stoking yesterday’s fiasco—in which he [thankfully] did not reference whatever tortuous religious beliefs bear on his political position.
I posted about changes against a member of the West Virginia House of Delegates for “stalking” of a worker at an abortion clinic.
worse… & fits
Thank you for reading the article.
The Hill:
Pelosi: Trump should be removed immediately
Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said Thursday that Washington policymakers should act immediately to remove President Trump from office just two weeks before his term ends, citing “seditious” acts related to the president’s role in encouraging the assault on the U.S. Capitol a day earlier.
Pelosi said Vice President Mike Pence should invoke the 25th Amendment to remove Trump immediately. Short of that, she said, the House will impeach him for a second time.
Bloomberg (@business) Tweeted:
BREAKING: Nancy Pelosi calls for the 25th Amendment to be invoked by Mike Pence to remove Donald Trump from office.
She says Congress is prepared to proceed with impeachment if it is not https://t.co/FSUmVKeupb https://t.co/Tu8lKEiHmw
** GO NANCY**. CBK
If you choose to click the link below to see what passes for “journalism” these days, sit down, put away sharp objects and any possible projectiles that can do damage to your property. The Akron Beacon Journal was founded by John Knight (of Knight-Ridder) and was once of the nation’s great newspapers. I rattled off a LTE that will surely not get published. This is truly disgusting.
https://www.beaconjournal.com/story/news/2021/01/07/new-franklin-woman-washington-trump-rally-turned-riot-shares-story/6577769002/
“’The National Guard came in and they were laughing at how peaceful we were,’ Evans said.”
The National Guard were called in AFTER pro-Trump rioters overran the US Capitol, per NBC—coordinating with Vice President Mike Pence and congressional leaders to assist officers taking back the Capitol. “Trump had to be convinced to deploy the National Guard, a person familiar with the matter confirms to NBC News.”
Excellent catch, Ginny. Dontcha love it when readers are better fact checkers than stenographers parading as reporters?
I support Simon and Schuster for doing what is right.
…………………………………
6:05 p.m.
Hawley loses book deal with Simon & Schuster
By Amy B Wang
Simon & Schuster has canceled a book deal with Sen. Josh Hawley (R-Mo.) “after witnessing the disturbing, deadly insurrection that took place on Wednesday in Washington, D.C.,” the publishing house said in a statement Thursday that was reported by CNN’s Brian Stelter.
Hawley had been slated to publish a book titled “The Tyranny of Big Tech” that argued that big tech companies “represent the gravest threat to American liberty since the monopolies of the Gilded Age,” and that Hawley would propose “a democratic, hopeful path forward,” according to a description of the book that remains on Simon & Schuster’s website.
The publisher said it did not come to the decision lightly.
“As a publisher it has always been our mission to amplify a variety of voices and viewpoints; at the same time we take seriously our larger public responsibility as citizens, and cannot support Senator Hawley after his role in what became a dangerous threat to our democracy and freedom,” the statement read.
Hawley responded to the cancellation with a tweet decrying the publisher as a “woke mob” and pledged to sue. He defended leading objections to the electoral college votes Wednesday as simply representing his constituents.
“This is the Left looking to cancel everyone they don’t approve of,” he said in a statement. “I will fight this cancel culture with everything I have.”
carolmalaysia Simon and Shuster . . . .sounds to me like a big company using what power it has to do some good in a very tenuous situation. When the president and his parade-followers are the enemy of the Constitution, someone has to do something. They invited it. And I doubt the powers that be at Simon and Shuster are looking to run for office next term. CBK
YAY and kudos to Simon & Schuster. Not only for taking the high road. I’m reading into this also their calculation that public will shun Hawley’s profiting from anything he has to say after his shameful part in this national fiasco.
Pelosi announced the resignation of House Sergeant at Arms Paul Irving and called for the resignation of the Capitol Chief of Police Steven Sund over his handling of the insurrection at the Capitol. Sund will resign effective Jan. 16.
CORRECT – GOOD MOVE PELOSI – YAY
I get so wound up about Trump and his never-ending tricks that I temporarily forgot about how bad COVID is for this country. Trump is personally responsible for thousands of deaths because of his inability to show any compassion or to follow the advice of science on how to limit the disease. Everything is always all about him and what he needs to do to win.
Well, FINALLY, he is a certified LOSER!
………………………………………………
Reported new coronavirus deaths in the U.S. top 4,000 for the first time
The single-day count of people dying of the virus that causes covid-19 reached at least 4,027 on Thursday, one day after the number of covid hospitalizations set another record at more than 132,000.
I wonder how many of his rabid supporters who stormed the Capitol building will come down with the virus in a week or two. A good number of them apparently believe the virus is a hoax, too.
At least 56 police officers were hurt during the chaos at the Capitol, the D.C. police chief says.
At least 56 Washington police officers were injured on Wednesday as they tried to push back hundreds of people who rushed the Capitol, the chief of the city’s Metropolitan Police Department said.
Chief Robert J. Contee said his officers had answered the call for help from the U.S. Capitol Police, whose officers were overrun by supporters of President Trump on their way into the Capitol. The chief of the Capitol Police said earlier on Thursday that several of his officers had been hospitalized with serious injuries…
ONE GIGANTIC RAT who owns 10 yachts will be jumping off the sinking ship on Friday. All educators should celebrate!!
……………………………..
The Washington Post
Alert
News Alert
Jan. 7, 9:16 p.m. EST
Education Secretary Betsy DeVos submitted her resignation Thursday, citing the president’s role in the riot on Capitol Hill
“There is no mistaking the impact your rhetoric had on the situation, and it is the inflection point for me,” she wrote in a letter to President Trump. She said her resignation is effective Friday.
DeVos had been one of Trump’s most loyal and longest-serving Cabinet secretaries. In recent days, though, even as Trump disputed the election results, she acknowleged that Joe Biden had defeated him.
Comapring her to a rat is evil, Carolm. Just plain evil. 🙂
Máté Wierdl: Sorry, but I’m laughing at your comment.
She could also be described as a GIGANTIC:
Orca Whale– Also known to you as the Killer Whale
Whitetail Deer– Huh? What did I just write? No typo here, believe it or not old Bambi can be a killer if he surely wants to.
Carolina Dog– This is an interesting species of Feral Dog. The Carolina Dog was discovered roaming the swamps of southeastern United States in the late 1970’s and there is still small packs roaming these same spots today. They very much resemble the Dingo of Australia and are sometimes called the American Dingo. Like any other Feral Dog, The Carolina Dog must hunt to survive.
Tibetan Sand Fox– This fox has a strange ruff of fur around it’s face and has a strange prey stalking technique.
The only decent thing she’s dpne in four years– but not giving her much credit, as it came only two weeks prior to her inevitable ouster. Was this just beyond her personal pale? or is this more likely her cynical ploy to retain some credibility as she goes back into pubsch bashing on her own dime?
She just doesn’t want to have to be involved in invoking the 25th Amendment.
ahh. I like the way you think.
If you read this article, you will see a number of different flags flown by the Trump supporters. Each flag has its own historical meaning. [How do people who violently support Trump know how to obtain these flags and understand the flag’s meaning?] It’s an interesting article.
Included is a short video of someone taking down the U.S. flag and putting up a Trump flag.
………………………………………………
Quartz: Decoding the flags and banners seen at the Capitol Hill insurrection
Seen as a whole they serve as a twisted ideological quilt for those who believe that the US election was stolen from incumbent president Donald Trump.
January 7, 2021
Many in the rabid mob who stormed the US Capitol yesterday came armed with a portable and potent weapon: a flag. There were large election banners, battle colors from the American Civil War, neo-Nazi flare, Christian symbols, and a smattering of national and state flags. Seen as a whole, they serve as a twisted ideological quilt for those who believe that the US election was stolen from incumbent president Donald Trump.
Of the various flags paraded around the seat of the US legislative branch, the most incendiary was a battle pennant from the Confederate army. Widely appropriated by white supremacists as a hate symbol, the “Southern Cross” never has been paraded public inside the Capitol before, historians point out. “It’s an outright affront to the government in its entirety,” says Antaeus Edelsohn, a University of Richmond law student and vexillology enthusiast.
The ensign featuring St. Andrew’s cross with 11 stars was designed to identify Confederate soldiers through the mist, fog, and gunpowder in the battlefields, Edelsohn says. “Its purpose is specifically to stand out and say ‘we are against the United States; we are against the union.’”
Laura Scofield, a graphic designer and member of the North American Vexillological Association, contends that flags are “the most powerful artifact ever designed.” Graphic marks, she explains, instantly gain emotional weight when emblazoned on a piece of cloth. “They’re powerful because they’re visible symbols of our identity,” Scofield says. “More than a cardboard sign, flags are dynamic. They communicate ideas quickly especially when hoisted to the heavens.” This contributes to the effect of a bigger, more unified rally behind a cause…
https://qz.com/1953366/decoding-the-pro-trump-insurrectionist-flags-and-banners/
IDIOTS. Trump can do no wrong.
Trump allies defend with denial, deflection
BY JEREMY W. PETERS THE NEW YORK TIMES
This was one mob they found a way to excuse.
Even as scores of President Donald Trump’s usually unfailing loyalists condemned him for moving too slowly to call off the swarm of demonstrators that stormed and ransacked the U.S. Capitol, many of his most vocal and visible allies in Congress, the media and conservative politics still could not bring themselves to fault him for the surreal and frightening attack carried out by people he had just urged to “fight like hell.”
They downplayed the violence as acts of desperation by people who felt lied to by the news media and ignored by their elected representatives. They deflected with false equivalences about the Democratic Party’s embrace of the Black Lives Matter movement.
Some even tried to dispute the fact that Trump supporters were the perpetrators, suggesting that far-left activists had infiltrated the crowd and posed as fans of the president.
These were not isolated or trivial assertions from little-known people on the fringes of Trump’s movement. Rather, they came from some of his highest-profile allies who helped enable his rise in the Republican Party and have aided him in his unrelenting assault on anyone who questions his actions.
“To any insincere, fake DC ‘patriots’ used as PLANTS — you will be found out,” wrote Sarah Palin, the Republican Party’s vice presidential nominee in 2008, who demanded that the media look into the allegiances of the people who smashed their way into the Capitol.
Responses like these — full of misdirection, denial and specious comparisons — sounded almost like typical fare coming from stalwart defenders of a president who considers admitting fault to be a sign of weakness. That they persisted in the face of such an extraordinary and unsettling strike on the seat of U.S. government is a sign of how premature it may be to conclude that Trump’s iron grip on his followers is loosening, although some prominent Republicans are distancing themselves….
Hannity made a few brief, largely perfunctory comments against the violence before spending several minutes unloading on Democrats in Congress, President-elect Joe Biden and the mainstream media for refusing to acknowledge that Trump supporters had legitimate reasons to doubt the outcome of the election.
“People feel like their voices aren’t being heard, and they’re angry,” Hannity said, reminding his millions of listeners of the “hundreds and hundreds” of people who claimed to have witnessed fraud or irregularities in the November election and what he called “four years of utter, breathtaking hypocrisy” of the president’s critics.
Many Trump sympathizers tried to shift the focus from the mob scene in Washington and revive months-old stories about the fires and looting that accompanied some protests over police brutality following the killing of George Floyd in May. Those chaotic scenes became a central piece of the Republican Party’s messaging to portray the Democrats and Biden as weak on public safety and captive to far-left extremists.
Elsewhere in pro-Trump media, the idea that anti-Trump infiltrators were actually responsible for the attack that left four people dead — not the president who teased that the day’s events “will be wild” or the marauders inside the Capitol waving flags and wearing hats emblazoned with his name — was widespread.
Mark Levin, whose radio program reaches 11 million people each week, told his listeners that while he thought the rioters were “idiots” who had hurt the Trump movement, there was a possibility that they were not really Trump supporters.
“We need to know exactly who these people are who did this,” Levin said. “Some people are saying it’s a false flag movement and sending me pictures of antifa,” he added, referring to a loosely organized far-left movement that Trump has often blamed when demonstrations supportive of him turn violent.
Referring to the president’s opponents, he added, “They’re the ones who pull down monuments. They’re the ones who burn down stuff. We’re not them. We’re us.”
Erick Erickson, a conservative commentator who has vacillated between defending and attacking the president, expressed disbelief at the idea that Trump supporters were being framed. “Literally just had a lady email me angrily that I’m blaming the President’s protesters for storming the Capitol when it is actually Antifa pretending to be the President’s supporters,” he wrote on Twitter.
The indifferent attitude and finger-pointing that some of Trump’s staunchest allies expressed about the siege echoed what demonstrators on the Capitol grounds were saying in their own defense.
Newsmax, a pro-Trump television channel that became a favorite of the president for amplifying his false claims of election fraud, aired segments live from the National Mall and allowed some of the people there to justify their actions as Trump supporters who were not getting the answers they wanted about the outcome of the election…
http://digitaledition.chicagotribune.com/infinity/article_share.aspx?guid=78f31dfa-e11e-4167-aff6-6f9ee5def575
Trump Officials Rush to Keep Him From Sparking Another Conflict—at Home or Abroad
Trump is increasingly unhinged. Top national security officials are trying to keep the whole world from paying the price.
…White House Counsel Pat Cipollone has already cautioned the president that he could be in potential legal jeopardy for egging on the rioters, a person familiar with the warning said. (This was previously reported by The New York Times.) The White House lawyer’s warning was viewed by some close to Trump as one of the ways that could maybe, perhaps, sort of deter making matters worse. This president is famously litigious, after all, the logic goes. “It’s a language he speaks,” the source said, but added that it was abundantly unclear how effective Cipollone’s warning would be.
Officials have also discussed other strategies for how to limit Trump’s capacity to do harm—from limiting the flow of some information to the president’s desk to slow-walking certain geopolitically sensitive decisions.
On Capitol Hill, both Democratic and Republican lawmakers have voiced concerns about the president’s state of mind and whether he is still fit for office. Several members of the House Judiciary Committee have circulated draft articles of impeachment. Others, including Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY), called for the president’s removal via the 25th amendment. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) told reporters Thursday that if the executive branch did not remove the president via the 25th amendment, the House would move toward impeachment.
In the past 24 hours, several senior administration officials have quietly sought to tamp down internal chatter of invoking the 25th Amendment to force Trump’s removal from office, according to three people with knowledge of the conversations. These sources say that the efforts are motivated in part by the fear that his removal, though unlikely to begin with, could cause further violent uprisings by Trump supporters in Washington, D.C. and elsewhere in the United States, and also by concerns that more talk, even if fleeting, of the 25th amendment could further enrage Trump and cause him to tweet or announce to his extremist fans that they should fight against that as well…
Defense and intelligence officials have discussed attempting to prevent the president and his loyalists at the Pentagon—especially Kash Patel, the chief of staff to Acting Defense Secretary Chris Miller—from tampering with classified information or carrying out their own political agendas that could threaten the security of the United States, three currently-serving senior officials told The Daily Beast…
https://www.thedailybeast.com/after-capitol-riot-trump-officials-rush-to-keep-him-from-sparking-another-conflictat-home-or-abroad?source=email&via=desktop
Anyone who doesn’t understand what it means to live in an authoritarian political climate, and how it differs from democracy, see the below FRONTLINE program from PBS called “A Thousand Cuts.” CBK
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/a-thousand-cuts/
Liz Zhang (@mslizzhang) Tweeted:
We should all congratulate Melania Trump for her successful campaign against cyberbullying. https://t.co/aZ2REHifQ8
Twitter Permanently Bans Michael Flynn, Sidney Powell in QAnon Purge
Twitter has banned several top Trump allies, including former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn and one-time Trump election lawyer Sidney Powell, in what the site described as a crackdown on QAnon content two days after QAnon believers joined other Trump supporters in violently storming Congress.
The social media giant also permanently suspended Ron Watkins, a former administrator of QAnon conspiracy theory hub 8kun who had become a leading figure in post-election conspiracy theories alleging election fraud. Watkins, along with his father, had close access to the forum where anonymous poster “Q” publishes, and have been accused of being behind the conspiracy themselves.
A Running Field Guide to the Far-Right Goons in D.C.
Flynn, Powell, and Watkins had all promoted conspiracy theories about President-elect Joe Biden’s victory. Flynn used Twitter to call for Trump to impose martial law rather than participate in a peaceful transfer of power. Powell and Watkins promoted a bevy of conspiracy theories aimed at undermining the legitimacy of Biden’s win, claims that were often retweeted by Trump himself.
In a statement, a Twitter spokesperson said the suspended accounts violated Twitter’s rules on “coordinated harmful activity.”…
Trump supporter Ashli Babbitt, who was fatally shot by police during the attack, posted the day before the riot about her belief that Wednesday would mark “The Storm”—the day QAnon believers claim Trump will violently execute or imprison his political foes in a fascist purge.
https://news.yahoo.com/twitter-permanently-bans-michael-flynn-215552379.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=ma
Here is an opinion from Canada.
Accept it, this is America now
Shannon Gormley: Where the United States is today—in the midst of every waking nightmare anyone has ever had about a President Donald Trump
By Shannon Gormley
January 7, 2021
…What matters today is that officials and lawmakers accept that this is the United States: a country facing a fascist coup attempt. The best way to prevent the president from causing more injury to the office of the American presidency is to remove him from it—today—through impeachment or the 25th amendment. The best way to prevent him from causing future injury to American society is to remove him from that too—prosecutors should set in motion their plans to charge him with obstruction of justice, tax fraud, sexual assault or whatever else before he can leave the country or be pardoned.
“We do not encourage violence,” said one of the objecting lawmakers who very much encouraged violence by repeating the lie that the election was stolen.
“This is not who were are,” said one of the president’s children who very much is his father’s son.
“This is the United States of America,” said the president-elect who is very much correct.
The United States Capitol fell yesterday, and then it rose again, and now it had better come to grips with the fact that it can always fall once more, the next time along with everything else around it.
https://www.macleans.ca/politics/washington/accept-it-this-is-america-now/
Donald Trump is neither a republican nor a democrat. He sees his constituency as fools. His job was to cause division and distract patriots from a collapsing America. Fellow black people I’ve talked to or read on the internet seem to think he’s one of the most racist men to ever walk the earth, and his constituency apparently thought he was going to make America prosperous again. America was supposed to be further crushed under his leadership, and under the next president’s leadership, and under the next, and so on, no matter whether fake democrat or fake republican is in office, so that America falls into the New World Order of worldwide dictatorship. And with the bioweapon COVID-19 curfews and industry decline, you can see them trying to slowly break the world. Luciferianism is very real. I pray more people start to realize that.
Yep. Just got another survey.
……………………………………………………..
From: Conservative Freedom Network news@conservativefreedomnetwork.com
Date: Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 5:17 AM
Subject: [Yes or No] Did Biden Steal the Election from Trump?
If you click on their site, you can tell them what you think of their survey.
For Trump and the Nation, a Final Test of Accountability
The push by Democrats to impeach the president for his role in inciting the attack on the Capitol underscores how American politics has been profoundly shaken in ways still hard to measure.
…Emotions were raw. The White House was in meltdown. The military was on edge. The cabinet was in revolt. The Republican Party was in civil war. And an unrepentant president was in hiding, stripped of his social media bullhorn, ostracized by many allies and at odds even with his staff and loyal vice president.
The storming of the Capitol by Mr. Trump’s supporters that left five people dead, among them a police officer, transformed the politics of the city in ways that were still hard to measure. A new impeachment would be more than a do-over of the drive that failed last year because this time the offense was not a phone call to a foreign leader captured on the dry pages of a transcript but the siege of American democracy played out live on television for all to see.
“Insurrectionists incited by Mr. Trump attacked our nation’s Capitol to stop Congress from accepting the Electoral College results,” said Representative Ted Lieu of California, who began drafting the article of impeachment with Representative David Cicilline of Rhode Island while sheltering during the Capitol takeover and was later joined by Jamie Raskin of Maryland. “People died. We cannot just issue sternly worded press releases as a response. Unless Trump resigns, Congress must impeach to hold him accountable.”…
“The storming of the Capitol by Mr. Trump’s supporters”
The proper way of saying this is “The storming of the Capitol, led by Trump,…”. Because that’s what happened. He was as an active participant in the coup attempt as generals are in battles. Nobody ever says “Napoleon supporters attacked Russia” or “Hitler supporters took over France”.
Let’s not remove Trump from the events and make him a mere spectator. He gave the order to attack, and General Giuliani instructed the troops to treat the enemy medieval style by treating them to “trial by combat”.
Máté Wierdl: GOOD observation. I agree with you. The loyal followers did exactly what Trump wanted them to do.
Of course, then he became a chicken-sh*t who went into hiding and watched with glee.
carolmalaysia I think the support coming from the president made all the difference in the world . . . on both sides.
On the mob’s side, they probably thought they could get away with it precisely because the president wanted it to happen. Many didn’t even TRY to hide their faces.
On the police side, they probably were still thinking out of a 300+ year-old assumption that “a U.S. President would never do such a thing, hence, there was no danger.” I think everyone is STILL gobsmacked about THAT. CBK
Generals observe battles from even greater distances.
Well proven that it was Anifia which proof is Biden, look up the news article anifia .com goes to white house as of today, owned by Biden. So do your research!
https://www.wtrf.com/news/national-news/antifa-website-redirects-to-white-house-website/
The man has lied his whole life, so when BLM formed thos summer the donations, went straight to Biden. You people are ignorant! I investigate so please research before you libel slander people
Rodeo girl,
Your stupidity is showing. Prove what you said, cause it’s a lie. If you believe lies like that, you are a gullible fool, just the type that Trump rips off. How much have you given that fraud to pay for his garish lifestyle?
rodeogirl I’m all for investigations; but Trump made it easy for anyone with a brain–he vomited corruption right out of his mouth, pen, and actions. CBK
You should get your brain deprogrammed. There is no antifa. I am anti-fascist. Are you? Trump is a fascist.
rodeogirl Somehow, I don’t think Joe Biden will put a FOR SALE sign up in front of the White House like Trump did. But I’m with Diane here . . . I am an anti-fascist, Trump was an anti-fascist, and you . . . ? Poor girl. CBK
If the People rule, then the People must be wise
It is not a mistake to think people can be educated and informed well enough to rule themselves wisely. But no one should dream that is automatic or easy. But the founders of many a noble experiment in self-rule likely never anticipated the power of modern techno-illogically-amplified mis-education, mis-information, and viral propaganda to create the waking nightmare of every educator — that You Can’t Fix Stupid no matter how hard you try.
Jon Awbrey Delicate issue of “who has and uses power”. . . but if businesses have a “voice” as “the people” are supposed to have (ahem), then I’m glad they spoke up this time. CBK
maybe George Saunders said it best …
It’s not only a matter of intelligence. They said that Ted Bundy had an IQ of 136 and Jeffrey Dahmer, 145. In their books, this means that these serial killers were smart. There are also smart businessmen who engage in corporate fraud and molest children. There is a spiritual aspect to people as well — This isn’t taught in the public school system, however. So no matter how smart you become, how many A’s you make in school, you remain vulnerable to demon possession and therefore society will always end in moral decay.
All true execpt the prediction about moral decay. We need to be able to control the sociopaths, and while they may end up very powerful, they are a small proportion of the population.
We cannot “educate out ” a billion year of evolution from humanity.
We need to be able to control the demons that get inside people’s bodies because they are morally weak and/or have no knowledge of the existence of spirits. I know it sounds crazy because, again, public school systems, and even false churches, do not teach demon possession. We evolved from a big bang, supposedly, so there can’t be a God or a Devil — That’s what I was taught in the public school system. What I find is that there are degrees of evil. There are the extremely evil, such as Ted Bundy, the Rothschilds, the Windsors, Anthony Fauci, Barack Obama, Bill Clinton, etc.; and there’s the average person, who is less evil but ultimately morally weak, which means he or she will usually vote for the lesser of two evils instead of fighting a corrupt system. So the system keeps getting worse because the more evil threaten the less evil with death if they don’t comply. And the less evil but morally weak always compromise.
“There are the extremely evil, such as Ted Bundy & _________.”
Your idea of extreme evil is different from mine.
Congress needs to remove Trump from office and hold accountable those members of Congress who enabled his attempts to subvert our democracy, defy our Constitution, and overturn the will of the people.
How about Adolf Hitler; Joseph Stalin, Osama Bin Laden, Mao Zedong, Pol Pot, Genghis Khan, Heinrich Himmler, Kim Jong-il and Saddam Hussein?
Do you really put Obama on the evil list? My brother believes that Obama had people killed in FEMA camps. That doesn’t make it a reality.
You are speaking from the point of view given by the mainstream media. Obama is a mainstream media darling, meaning they are not allowed to talk about who he really is because he had to be sold to the public as the selected president. But his gay lover ended up dead. He is nothing but an evil actor. He put on a show and you bought it. He is evil because his deception was so effective. He is very charming, like Van Jones, like Bill Clinton.
“But his [Obama] gay lover ended up dead.”
I’d like to think you are kidding and have a warped, dark sense of humor. Please give the link to where you found this ‘gem’ of news.
Obama has always been faithful to his wife and loves his daughters.
Trump, on the other side of the fence, wants to date his daughter, called Tiffany too fat and has run around on his wives. He intruded on a teenage beauty contest so that he could view their naked bodies. At least 20 women have said Trump sexually attacked him.
There are many links to my facts but I’m sure you have only some far R rag that makes up garbage to justify yours. Maybe the National Inquirer would put out nonsense like Obama had a gay lover.
I have no problem with gay or trans people. I just don’t like bad journalism that uses them to deface decent people’s reputation.
He’s a deceiver. He’s not what he pretends to be. If he were a good man he’d be dead or never selected as president by the real rulers. If you try to go against the real rulers, try to expose them, you get killed, as JFK found out.
“But his gay lover ended up dead. ”
Sabrina, this blog resides in real life, not an imaginary one, hence every statement must be accompanied by evidence of its truthfulness. A claim without proof is a lie, and we know how lies and liars who tell them are judged, don’t we?
I cannot believe you haven’t realized that Obama is a deceiver. Really?
Why do you ask me? You are the one knowing all this info about Obama’s personal life. Why not reveal your authentic source?
It’s helpful to have the Holy Spirit in order to know that Obama is evil and that they have actually killed people who knew it.
Sabrina Dawkins – Black Christian Mind: “It’s helpful to have the Holy Spirit in order to know that Obama is evil and that they have actually killed people who knew it.”
So, the Holy Spirit told you that Obama is evil. Is that your source?
Interesting. I know the Holy Spirit and it told me that Trump is evil. I also can list many media sources to back up my knowledge. Where are your other sources?
Jon We should be able to start with Fox News and other so-called “news” outlets like OAN–much of the problem can be laid at their door. But in all earnestness, how do you do that? CBK
Re: Sabrina Dawkins
Dear Sabrina,
I did not use the word “intelligence”, a failed construct in most ways it’s used since the days of IQ tests. I spoke of education, information, and wisdom. On a blog by an educator for educators I naturally mean that in the fullest sense of a well-rounded, character, civic, and critical thinking education traced out by a line from Socrates to John Dewey.
Regards,
Jon
I said that in their books, not mine, they are considered intelligent. But where does that wisdom come from that you speak of? I am saying that it must come from the creator of good, the creator of everything. In Ancient Greece there was pederasty, a sign of moral decay. I think what we find is human civilizations eventually collapse. Why? Because they have no moral constant. Even in this civilization, you watch people running to the polls to vote for evil, compromised people because they are morally weak and desperate. Those same people who fund the viral disinformation on the internet are the same ones who plan the public school system education curriculum. I remember being forced to read Brave New World in high school. The evil conquered the morally weak long ago.
Sabrina,
I disagree. Evil people do not put “viral disinformation” into the schools. Reading “Brave New World” introduces young people to the dangers of totalitarianism and group-think.
I was also forced to read The Color Purple (lesbianism), Black Boy (atheism), Their Eyes Were Watching God (terrible and had nothing to do with God), but no Christian books, no books that taught true morality. I wonder why? If the creators of the curriculum really cared whether or not I developed into a moral person, don’t you think books would’ve been assigned that taught morality? Instead, I got sexually explicit and atheistic amoral books and was taught evolution.
Are you saying, Sabrina, the republican politicians who have tolerated Trump’s amoral behavior for 4 years and even after leading a violent insurrection against the US government they are unwilling to remove him from Office, have not read enough Christian literature in school? If that’s the case, democrats then must have gone to schools with better Christian resources, since they seem to recognize amoral behavior much more clearly.
If they were true Christians, they would never have voted for Trump. It’s like voting for King Saul. God is suppose to rule from within via the Holy Spirit.
Christianity is a tradition in America, meaning you have a lot of “Christians” who aren’t really Christians. They go to church to socialize and get a feel-good message but haven’t even read the entire Bible. True Christians don’t watch TV anymore because it is filthy and dumbs you down.
Those “insurrectionists” were encouraged by the television to do what they did to make republicans and patriots look bad so people would be against them and not pay attention to the actual rulers who want nothing more than to take all of our freedom away. Trump works for the true rulers. He only pretends to be a patriot. He’s like the Timothy McVeigh actor to make patriots the enemy.
Having read the books that you consider amoral, did you turn out to be an amoral person?
My godless education had a terrible effect on me earlier in life. The thing is, you don’t give a child the choice between soda and water. You don’t give a child the choice between candy and vegetables. You give the child the moral path because you know that one path leads to death and you know the child is not mature enough to make the right choice.
I agree Diane. Of course, schools are not behind the attack on the Capitol. Kids go home after school, and get radicalized or indoctrinated—nowadays via mass media. It’s laws that can control what mass media companies are allowed to do and it’s laws that control vandalism and incitement for it.
Humanity has proved, time and again, that we are all capable of vandalism. This is exactly what Schwarzenegger was talking about in his recent video, when he said that ordinary people had been radicalized and had ended up causing Kristallnacht. Imo, it’s a mistake to claim “this is not who we are” when watching the videos of Jan. 6. We have to accept who we are, and we need to make sure the devil, which resides in all of us, doesn’t come out.
NYT:
Conservative commentators at networks like Newsmax have generally downplayed the uprising at the Capitol, or baselessly blamed false-flag antifa operatives. A PBS NewsHour/Marist College poll found that Republicans were evenly divided, 47 percent to 47 percent, between thinking that the rioters had broken the law and thinking that their actions were mostly legitimate.
MAN TEXTED PLANS TO SHOOT PELOSI A Georgia man, Cleveland Grover Meredith Jr., texted people his intentions to shoot Pelosi “on live TV” while making his way to the nation’s capital with an assault rifle for Wednesday’s pro-Trump rally. He was arrested at a Washington hotel Thursday. Meredith’s alleged text messages included him bragging of having a “ton of 5.56 armor piercing ammo” and wanting to run over the Democratic leader. [HuffPost]
GOOD. Money seems to be the only thing that gets some politician’s attention.
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Big banks pause political giving after mob assault on the Capitol
Republican lawmakers who tried to overturn President-elect Joe Biden’s victory even after that effort unleashed a violent mob on the Capitol now face a reckoning from their corporate benefactors.
A growing number of companies announced over the weekend they are suspending campaign contributions to those eight Republican senators and 139 House Republicans.
The list so far includes Blue Cross Blue Shield, Commerce Bank and Marriott International. And four of the country’s biggest banks — JPMorgan Chase, Citigroup, Goldman Sachs, and Morgan Stanley — are suspending all political giving, Bloomberg News’s Yuegi Yang and Sridhar Natarajan report.
This is news that I like‼️😍
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Group pledges up to $50 million to defend Republicans who support impeaching Trump.
Jan. 12, 2021, 12:01 p.m. ET
A group of former administration officials and anti-Trump Republicans said they would make a $50 million commitment to support the re-election of Republican lawmakers who join Democrats in supporting impeachment of the president.
The financial commitment by the group, the Republican Accountability Project, is designed to incentivize Republicans who have appeared open to voting in favor of the new article of impeachment that is expected to be considered by the House on Wednesday.
“Donald Trump has made it clear he is going to try and politically punish anyone who stands against him,” said Sarah Longwell, a prominent Never Trump Republican who is behind the new group. “His ability to to do that is diminishing by the minute, but we want to provide a counterweight to say there is real money to back people who do the right thing.”
No House Republicans supported the president’s first impeachment in 2019. But as many as a dozen Republicans were said to be considering joining Democrats this time around, including Representative Liz Cheney of Wyoming, the No. 3 House Republican…