I watched the debate in full with a sense of horror and disgust. Trump was a bully. He was rude and overbearing. Trump was obnoxious. He degrades the presidency. There was no fact-checking and Trump repeatedly lied.
It should have been X-rated so that young children and adolescents did not see Trump’s crude behavior and assume that’s how adults are supposed to behave. He is a role model of what NOT to do.
I probably won’t watch the remaining “debates,” because what’s the point? The viewer learns nothing and hears lies and sees crude behavior from Trump, who never learned to tell the truth or act properly.
Chris Wallace tried to moderate but he could not control Trump, who was acting like a spoiled brat. I wanted to turn it off but didn’t. It was a disgusting portrayal of the state of American politics. Trump refused to condemn white supremacy. When he called on his followers to go to the polls to make sure there was no cheating, I imagined militias with AK-47s at the polls.
Here is Dana Milbank in the Washington Post:
Halfway through Tuesday night’s first presidential debate, moderator Chris Wallace of Fox News raised his voice and took the extraordinary step of scolding President Trump.
“The country would be better served if we allowed both people to speak with fewer interruptions,” Wallace said. “I’m appealing to you, sir, to do that.”
Trump interrupted: “And him, too!” he said, referring to Democratic nominee Joe Biden.
“Well, frankly, you’ve been doing more interrupting,” Wallace said.
“He’s done plenty,” Trump said, interrupting again.
“Well, less than you have,” the moderator replied.
That was wry understatement. It wasn’t a debate in the traditional sense. Biden and Wallace were participating in a debate. Trump was shouting, hectoring, interrupting and generally making it impossible to have a discussion:
“Socialist!”
“Pocahontas!”
“Manifesto!”
“Socialized medicine!”
“Wrong!”
“There’s nothing smart about you, Joe!”
“China ate your lunch, Joe!”
When he did produce more than a taunt or an insult, Trump’s sentiments were either odd (“the forest floors are loaded up with trees”) or dark. He refused to condemn violence by white supremacists and hinted that he might rely upon their violence if he loses the election. He offered an ominous message to the white-nationalist group Proud Boys: “Stand back and stand by.”
Ahead of the debate, Trump had suggested that Biden be tested for performance-enhancing drugs that supposedly cure his supposed senility (Biden “doesn’t know he’s alive,” Trump often says). But on Tuesday night, Biden was calm and in control, while Trump was the one operating in altered reality: ranting, irrational and seemingly unaware of the conversation occurring in his midst.
Wallace kept trying, and failing, to rein in Trump: “Mr. President. Mr. President. Mr. President! . . . If I may ask a question sir. . . . Mr. President, I am the moderator of this debate, and I’d like you to let me ask my question.”
Biden answered Trump’s stream-of-consciousness invective with appeals to unity. When Trump went after Hunter Biden and Burisma, the former vice president, speaking directly to the camera, noted that he could go after Trump’s family, but “this is not about my family or his family. It’s about your family. . . . He doesn’t want to talk about what you need — you, the American people.”
When Trump called racial sensitivity training “absolutely insane” and part of a “radical revolution,” Biden responded: “We’re all Americans. The only way we’re going to bring this country together is bring everybody together. . . . We can take this on and we can defeat racism in America.”
Biden let his erratic opponent get under his skin a few times, calling him a “fool” and asking him to “just be quiet for a moment” and “shush for a minute,” and even this: “Will you shut up, man? This is so unpresidential. . . . Keep yapping, man.”
The Democratic nominee called Trump “the worst president America has ever had” and said “it’s hard to get any word in with this clown.” Biden caught himself. “Excuse me, this person.”
If you could hear him through the din, the challenger landed some solid blows, criticizing Trump’s dismissal of the covid-19 death toll by saying “it is what it is.” Said Biden: “It is what it is because you are who you are. . . . He said he didn’t tell us or give people a warning of it because he didn’t want to panic the American people. You don’t panic; he panicked.”
Biden told Trump to “get out of your bunker and get out of the sand trap on your golf course and go in the Oval Office and bring together the Democrats, Republicans and fund what needs to be done now to save lives.”
By way of parrying Biden, Trump offered falsehoods, claiming Anthony Fauci doesn’t approve of mask-wearing (“he said very strongly masks are not good”), claiming his rallies were only outdoors (they have been indoors, too) and said Biden errantly claimed to have attended the wrong university (a right-wing online claim that has been debunked).
But for all his heckling, shouting and nonsense talk, Trump made one thing perfectly clear: He’s getting ready to take his chaos and mayhem from the debate stage and use it to try to disrupt the election itself.
In the final segment, not long after Trump stood up for the Proud Boys, Wallace asked the candidates to “reassure the American people” that the “legitimate winner of this election” will be the next president.
Biden offered that reassurance, and he urged Americans to vote, because Trump “cannot stop you from being able to determine the outcome of this election.”
Trump, by contrast, went on a final rant about “crooked Hillary Clinton,” people “spying on my campaign,” and about how mail-in balloting is “a fraud and it’s a sham.” He told Wallace: “Don’t tell me about a free transition.”
“This is a horrible thing for our country,” Trump concluded. “No, this is not going to end well.”
The president, by his actions Tuesday night, made it abundantly clear that this is not a prediction. It’s a promise.
This analysis of the presidential debate comes from the BBC:
…………………………………….
Who won the debate?
Analysis box by Anthony Zurcher, North America reporter
In a debate that was the political equivalent of a food fight, the winner is the man who emerged least covered in slop.
On Tuesday night, that man was Joe Biden – if only because his main goal was to prove to Americans that he could hold up under pressure, that he had not lost a step due to his advancing age. He had to show he could take a pie to the face, metaphorically speaking, and keep his cool.
He mostly met that standard, although it was at least in part because Donald Trump, by his constant hectoring and interruptions, seldom gave the former vice-president a chance to say something truly damaging to his own cause.
Twitter Trump – the unconventional, bombastic, insulting and rumour-mongering aspect of this president – was on full display throughout the hour and a half event. Unfortunately for the president, many Americans, even his own supporters, find his social media persona one of his more unattractive attributes.
Trump needed this debate to shake up a race that is tilting against him. Biden’s lead has remained stable through turmoil on the streets and in the economy, and the Covid crisis.
Nothing about this hour-and-a-half free-for-all seems likely to alter the dynamics of this contest or change the minds of the one in 10 American voters who say they are still undecided (although perhaps they’ll resolve never to watch another one of these).
Anything resembling a substantive exchange was buried in a cavalcade of bloviation and bickering – and because of this, it was a missed opportunity for the president.
No one won the debates last night, but the American people (and the world) lost.
No, the American people (and the world) lost when Donald Trump was elected.
You linked elsewhere to a Medium article by an Australian woman who has been writing nonstop with the clear agenda to convince people that there is no difference between the candidates and they should vote 3rd party and not vote at all. She is obsessed with telling Americans how to make our country better, which apparent starts with empowering Trump another 4 years. hmmmm…..
Do you know what will make the American people (and the world) lose even more?
Not electing Joe Biden as president.
To say that America and the world “lost” because of a debate???!!! Are you kidding me? They lost because Donald Trump was elected.
What is your end goal? You linked to the same woman urging everyone to vote 3rd party. Is that it? Another 4 years of Trump? But what upsets you is a debate?
This is 10 minutes worth your time. We are in dangerous times.
https://www.pscp.tv/w/1YqGoRQQdqAKv
Thanks for sharing this. He nails it.
For other readers, the link takes you a page to a completed “event,” but click on the arrow and have a listen. I agree. Worth your time.
Anand Giridharadas blogs here:
https://the.ink/people/2005291-anand-giridharadas
He’s also the author of the excellent Winners Take All
The title of one of the pieces on Mr. Giridharadas’s site:
Jeff Bezos wants to start a school for kids whose families are underpaid by people like Jeff Bezos
A free crash course in why generosity is no substitute for justice
Anand Giridharadas is one of the most insightful commentators around. The media is not going to stop the side showthat genrates revenue for them, only voters can do it. The safest way to make sure your voice is heard is to figure out a way to vote in person, particularly if you live in a red state.
“A free crash course in why generosity is no substitute for justice”
…or for for paying taxes!
cx: for paying
I was stuttering I am so angry.
To the Proud Boys: the brown shirts are in the mail.
To Biden: I wanted to hear: “You can’t handle the truth.”
To Trump: Since when do YOU respect LAW and ORDER? CBK
Takeaway for education: Kindness is a key value in a democracy . . . fostering kindness in children is a key value in educating them to live one. This from Elizabeth Bruenig from the New York Times:
“When Biden explained in simple terms why it’s important to be kind — not just from the standpoint of individual relationships, but for the survival of liberal democracy — he hit upon something crucial. This form of government requires certain virtues and a willingness to understand things from different points of view is one of them. I would argue that willingness to understand is a form of love, and one that isn’t easily inculcated into hardened hearts. Biden didn’t say all of that, of course, and I’m not sure he would endorse it. But he did set his sights on something much more critical, in that short speech, than specific policies or elections.”
CBK
Liberals should be grateful to Trump last night. Biden couldn’t stumble his way through a sentence before losing track of what he was saying. If Trump had shut up, Biden would have hung himself on his own rope, but instead Trump saved him by interrupting and being an @$$, thereby making Biden actually seem sympathetic even as he vehemently sided against every single progressive policy.
He doesn’t support defunding the police, he wants to increase police funding. He doesn’t support BLM, he supports the police. He walked back even the pathetic “public option” making it clear that it is only for people who qualify for Medicaid in states that have refused Medicaid expansion – in other words, it won’t help very many people. He doesn’t support the Green New Deal, even after admitting that the Green New Deal would pay for itself. “That’s Bernie’s plan! I’m not listening to Bernie!” Meanwhile, it’s mostly Bernie’s people who are still volunteering to try to drag Biden’s sorry behind over the finish line. Nice thank you there. Oh, and Biden supports Amy Coney Barrett.
And can someone please tell me how a discussion of race among three old white men immediately turned into a fight for who’s more “law and order”?
And spare me the poor “Chris Wallace tried to moderate” nonsense. I guess media people don’t know that microphones can be turned off? They chose to run this like a WWE match for entertainment and ratings rather than informative value.
I know everyone on this blog watched the debates and confirmed what they already know – that Trump is a bully (which is true). But what the rest of the world got from that debate went a little further. https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/russia-could-never-discredit-the-us-empire-the-way-these-guys-just-did-a9630830b009
Joe Biden looked more appealing than ever.
President Trump looked less appealing than ever.
I’m trying to understand why anyone who isn’t a Trump supporter is anguished and upset at that news.
Bottom line:
We already KNOW what Joe Biden’s positions are. They haven’t changed. He isn’t a progressive. On the other hand, he IS concerned about climate change and people getting healthcare and addressing pandemics. He IS concerned about policing and ignored President Trump’s dog whistle to his racist followers about BLM.
It is simply not true that Biden supports Amy Coney Barrett.
Most of us saw a man who cared about the same issues that most Americans do and the most valid criticism of him is that his approach to solving them is too moderate. But lots of voters saw Biden and were incredibly reassured because they felt they’d have to vote for Trump because Biden would be “too radical”.
I don’t understand why someone would post the false statement that Biden couldn’t stumble through a sentence. Has that replaced “he has dementia”?
As a parent, I have never been so impressed with an adult able to withstand 90 minutes of haranguing and attacks and insults and bad behavior. Biden was a model of how to parent a toddler! I know that on a few very rare occasions he couldn’t help the mildest of retorts like “you clown” (although he immediately apologized).
How did Biden manage to stay so calm and yet continue to turn to the camera and speak to us?!
We already knew exactly what Biden’s positions were. And we knew what Trump’s were. Biden’s are better. Not even in the same ballpark better.
But even people I know who actually prefer some of Trump’s positions understand that yesterday we got a chance to compare their temperaments side by side. And only one man on that stage should ever come within a mile of the presidency.
The choice is clear.
I don’t know that the “debate” showed it, but yes, the choice is clear.
I’m frustrated. I’m saddened. I’m afraid. So I’m going to take all that emotion and turn it into action. We are in a fight, and this hand is on deck.
LeftCoastTeacher,
I feel all the same emotions as you! I wish the election was over already!
Biden actually impresses more each time I see him. He doesn’t and has never pretended to be something he isn’t. But he has compassion and cares and is not an ideologue. His values are similar to mine even if his cautious approach isn’t. He’s moderate but (sadly) by the standards of today, that makes him center left! And this country has to move left. It’s doubtful democracy can sustain another 4 years of moving right.
Only someone with bad motives would push the false narrative that Biden betrayed progressives last night. He was Biden. It would have been false of him to suddenly embrace all the things Trump accused him of supporting that he did not. Biden made it clear that he supported other ways of achieving the same goals. Even if I think that his ways won’t get us where I want us to be, that’s a good thing.
Note that the person who defends Trump all the time pushes today’s right wing narrative:
“Both sides equally bad in debate”.
Linking a story pushing the right wing’s meme of the day: “both sides were equally bad and ruined the debate.”
One man ruined that debate and anyone who can’t see that and is working so hard to convince people that “both sides” were bad is a Trump supporter or Russian troll. There is no other possibility.
Trevor Reacts to the First Biden-Trump Debate | The Daily Social Distancing Show
Sep 29, 2020
The Daily Show with Trevor Noah
In his own demented way Trump is an open book. He often gives insights into how he plans to lie, cheat and steal. He made an offhand comment about “getting rid of ballots” in one of his rants. I think in red lead states he will pressure governors to toss some of the mail-in ballots. He thinks like a mafia boss.
Mail-in voting is underway in Florida. I applied for my family and me about two months ago. We have not yet received any ballots. If they do not come, I will mask up and opt for early voting in person. There are fewer opportunities for tampering with in-person voting.
He typically does this. He telegraphs what he is actually planning to do. This should really, really disturb people. And, yes, he thinks just like a mob boss. The Teflon Don 2.0. The Don, Chetto “Littlefingers” Trumpbalone.
The 2 remaining debates cannot be a repeat of this Trumpathon of non-stop interruptions and filibustering on steroids. Trump sucked all the oxygen out of the auditorium and that was his intention: to dominate the debate, not give Biden a chance to respond or even speak. Remarkable moments were when Biden was able to actually complete a sentence and achieve punctuation. Trump has no respect for the rules, any rules, he will do anything to achieve his nefarious goals because he is a gangster and amoral bully. Most humans even with just a scintilla of morals would have been appalled at Trump’s performance last night. The Proud Boys were cheering and doing victory dances over Trump’s remarks.
The Commission of Presidential Debates has already signaled that they don’t care about having a good debate.
What they care about is accommodating an unfit president and normalizing his behavior.
Trump attended a debate where he acted out, behaved badly, and showed complete disrespect for the entire process. No doubt teachers have had students like that who made it entirely impossible for the students to learn.
The simple solution is to say “that person cannot attend any more debates until he apologizes for his behavior and promises to behave at the next one.”
Instead the Commission on Presidential Debates is saying “how can we change the format in such a way so that a candidate who we know acts out and ruins the entire experience might not do so”.
I have never heard such poppycock.
The Democrats should say one thing and one thing only. There should be only one meme:
When President Trump apologizes to the American people for his behavior and promises to behave at the next debate, he can attend. If not, he forfeits and the debate is cancelled.
PRESIDENT TRUMP MUST APOLOGIZE. That should be repeated over and over again. He behaved badly. He behaved HORRIBLY. He ruined the experience for the American public with his bad behavior.
Instead, the president is being enabled by people jumping through hoops to find a “better format” that suits him.
Imagine if that student acted out horribly in class and prevented the other students from learning. The Commission of Presidential Debates would apparently say: “from now on, all classes will be entirely remote because one person cannot behave and since you can’t learn when this person misbehaves, everyone must go home and learn on their computers.”
It is re-designing a school because one bullying student refuses to change his behavior, so everyone else in the entire school — students, faculty, staff — must change to accommodate him!
How did we get to the place where this is acceptable? Propaganda. We’ve all been brainwashed to think this is a reasonable response.
It isn’t. The reasonable response is to ban Trump from any debate until he apologizes for his behavior and promises to behave in the next one. And apology is key. If he can’t admit his behavior was wrong, he can’t attend more debates.
no bother siderism either. Biden behaved perfectly fine. So did Chris Wallace.
GregB Trump is acting on the model of kings, dictators, and emperors. They can do no wrong on principle, and wouldn’t think of apologizing. CBK
TPM, in an article today, draws parallels between Trump’s behavior last night and living with an abuser. “One of the deepest traumas is the accumulated stress of ambient tension, uncertainty, the unshakeable hyper-vigilance. It’s exhausting.”
Opponents don’t have a roadmap for a response to Trump’s attacks because psychologists advise victims to get away from abusers and, not to engage.
I recommend that the debate organizers recruit a middle school teacher to moderate the next debate. You need someone with experience in handling truculent adolescents.
Trumpulent Adderallant
Trumpulent adderallant
Really hard to handle
Truculent adolescent
Couldn’t hold a candle
Point taken.
Here’s Valerie Strauss with a roundup of teacher takes on the so-called debate:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2020/09/30/kids-were-frightened-educators-were-horrified-there-was-this-please-let-an-experienced-teacher-moderate-next-debate/
Actually, I think I would like to see someone who spoke at a town hall meeting be moderator. I caught a snatch of a woman calling Trump out Trump when he interrupted her in mid-question. She was polite and direct, and Trump shut up!! I don’t remember having ever seen Trump respond in that manner before or since.
Well, of course, Trump is a pathological liar. But he’s also a) stupid and b) ignorant (distinct characteristics, those). The stupidity of the “stable genius” often takes the form of tells that show clearly that he doesn’t believe a word he’s saying OR of telegraphing, unintentionally, what he plans to do but doesn’t want to say outright.
For example, before the debate, he said, more than once (“ideas” get stuck on repeat in his tiny brain) that Biden should be drug-tested before the debate and that he would be willing to do that, too. But last night, I as I was watching this, I was thinking, “This man (I use the term loosely) is high. He is clearly, obviously, on something.” And at the same time, several friends were texting me the same thing. And he seemed to be a particular kind of high–to be on some sort of upper that causes agitation. Adderall? Cocaine? Yes, we all know that Trump is a bully and has no decorum and no editor, but last night, he was off the charts is both regards. He clearly could not control himself AT ALL. He was under the influence of some drug other than the usual one of his own pathological self-regard.
It was really funny to hear pundits talk, after the debate, about roundtables of “undecided voters” saying, at the end of Trump’s WEIRD performance, that the debate didn’t influence their opinions one way or the other. Anyone who is undecided at this point hasn’t the cognitive capacity of a rutabaga.
CANDIDATE: We should euthanize everyone under the age of 12 or at least replace school lunches with dog poop.
UNDECIDED VOTER: It sounded like more the same and didn’t really sway me one way or the other.
“Anyone who is undecided at this point hasn’t the cognitive capacity of a rutabaga.” Yes, well put!
Bob Yes, yes, yes, and then there’s “yes.” CBK
Undecided” voters would better be called “unenlightened” voters and their preference is to remain that way.
They enjoy the fact that they are courted for their vote by both candidates. It makes them feel important, which is the reason they make their position known to anyone who asks and even to people who don’t ask. They actually believe that being undecided is some sort of badge of honor.
What it really is is a badge of idiocy.
Bob, if you cannot write without insulting rutabagas, you should refrain from the practice.
We would do better to have a rutabaga replace Trump in the Oval Office. Hows’ that, Roy?
Oval Officers
There’s nothing greata
Than rutabaga
As President
It’s veggie sent
It’s rooted deep
In Capitol Hill
And veggie Veep
Is White House Dill
Rude E. Bagga, elected president in 2020 was not even noticed due to all the other things that were going on that year. He quickly became loved by a people starving for news about vegetables, but the American Right wing soon found that he had been a member of the far left group Antifunga, which advocates for the elimination of fungal growth in root plants. Ted Crews, fresh out of rowing school, suggested he was fomenting a left wing takeover. “If God had meant for us to do away with fungus, he would have never created spores,” intoned the hapless Crews as the American public became enamoured of the move toward root vegetables.
Bob your hypothetical at the end of that post has me giggling uncontrollably. Thanks, I needed that!
Bob, you are absolutely right. Except this is entirely the result of a compliant media and the insidious right wing propaganda that allows all of us to enable him without realizing it.
Notice how even now people are talking about how to manage the next debate to accommodate this totally unfit man.
Who is stating the obvious? When President Trump apologizes to the American people for his bad behavior and promises that next debate he will follow the rules, he can participate in the next debate. Don’t change the debate for him!!! Require better behavior from him which first requires that he admit his bad behavior and apologize!
No one is saying that. They are talking about how to design a new debate structure to enable him to participate, without requiring any change of behavior of him.
Our country has been brainwashed by too many years of propaganda.
I was critical of Chris Wallace in the beginning for not holding XLV to the rules … but after a while I realized some of 45’s worst moments came when they just let him keep talking …
Toxymoronically, those are both his best and worst moments.
It depends completely on one’s viewpoint.
Last night provides the title for next biography of Trump: A Lifetime without Toilet Training.
Perfect
Subtext: …and Why it Doesn’t Matter: How to Fool Everyone Around You to Always Clean Up Your Sh*t
It is a good thing Trump disrupted the debate so much that Biden never had to take a potentially painful stand on the filibuster and flooding the court . Something he must do after the election . Since 1969 15 Supreme Court Justices have been appointed by the right. Only 4 by the Center-est Democrats. While 4 Republican Presidents, Nixon , Reagan , G.W.Bush and Trump have been elected by using tactics from treachery to Treason.
When one side does not follow the norms, following the norms will not stop the fascist future we are heading to.
Biden must insist that the moderator be given a kill switch and the supposed liberal media has to use them on Trump surrogates as well. Of course they wont because the clown show boosts ratings.
Joel Yes, but the kill switch idea should come from the organization that plans the debate, not from Joe Biden. And if Trump says “NO” then they should follow through and kill the debate; whereupon Trump will die of asphyxiation. CBK
Why does he have to take a stance on the filibuster and number of Justices after the election? Assuming he wins, he still has to wait awhile to become President. Why decide then how he might act? Even after he is in office, there is no reason to announce a strategy until it is a certainty. And no, the people don’t have a right to know. He will not be planning a golf tournament where the rules are laid out ahead of time (except if it is on a Trump course, in which case Trump gets to make them up as he plays). There will be plenty of occasions where secrecy is necessary and where we do not need to know. We elect people to take on roles that we ourselves are not equipped to handle (although sometimes we forget that and elect nincompoops).
I agree with you, speduktr.
One wag suggested that the Democrats (in my view it ought to be someone fairly low on the food chain) foreswear packing the Supreme Court. Then, once we have a Senate majority in addition to the one in the House, and Biden in the Oval, break the promise.
I don’t much like stopping to their level under ordinary circumstances, but in the case of dissolving the rights the female half of our nation have fought for so long, I’d make an exception.
*stooping
My mother said never say bad things about the dead. Only good. Nixon, Reagan and Bush are dead. Good.
Original quote by Bette Davis on Joan Crawford’s death.
I did not watch it, but based on a selective viewing of 30 minutes of the news yesterday evening and again this morning, it seems to me the Idiot won. He consolidated his base. The country is distracted by the “entertainment” value of repeating the same things over and over again and not a single word about the news that matters–COVID, its economic consequences, the loss of the nation’s standing in the world–and the longer they are not discussed, the more it benefits the Idiot. And soon we switch to the infotainment of a rigged Supreme Court nomination.
I truly hope that I am as wrong as I can be. I was driving around some of the rural areas of where I live and it’s an ocean of stubborn intolerance. They loved what they saw last night. The so-called pro-life and guns rights folks are going to vote their narrow hate in droves. I’m scared to death.
For the first time ever I forced myself to watch him live for more than 5 minutes .
I am not worried about him winning the popular nor the electoral vote . I am very concerned that he will steal an election by shutting down the electoral process, leaving us praying for a coup on Jan 20th.
GregB,
The people who “loved” Trump’s performance last night are people who would never, ever, in a million years vote for anyone but Trump. I don’t know what clips the “bothsiderism” media you watched showed, but anyone who crowed about his performance will never have their vote changed by reason. I think even polls said only 27% thought Trump won.
I thought Biden did fine. Frankly, better than fine, because being able to stay focused for 90 minutes while being hectored and egged on is a herculean task. Biden may have mildly responded in kind “you clown” twice and immediately returned to the job at hand.
I think Biden should announce he is not debating anymore. Period. What is the point? Trump does not want to debate. He just wants to hurl invectives and lies at Biden. Trump showed us clearly, and Trump can do that in speeches.
Greg: respectfully disagree with your assessment. As I watched the last hour, it struck me that the only thing Trump needed to do in the debate was to reach out to the undecided vote. He did not do that. Instead he surely alienated whatever undecided vote was there.
I will agree that he was able to whip his supporters up, but they are already on board. It seemed to me that his refusal to call out his distant right supporters melted into a call for them to actually rise in armed insurrection if he did not win. In that way, he used the debate for what he has been doing.
As for having his way, he fumbled the ball. The Democrats should step away from the debates and just pay for air time to show the instant replay.
Yes, the democrats only line should be:
When President Trump apologizes to Fox News and the American people for his behavior and promises to follow the rules of the next debate, there should be a debate.
We eagerly await that time. Joe Biden does not want President Trump to apologize to him. Joe Biden wants President Trump to apologize to Fox News and the American people for ruining the opportunity that voters had to hear both candidates answer questions from a Fox News reporter.
We hope that President Trump will apologize to Fox News and the American people, so there can be a next debate.
NYC . . . when pigs fly. CBK
I have to disagree with you, too. I forced myself to watch the whole thing. Sound bites do not do “justice” to his performance. I’m sure his base ate it up, but anyone else could be nothing but horrified.
NYCPSP, Roy, speduktr: I truly hope my fears will be proven as wrong as you believe them to be. When it comes to politics and governing these days, I now only expect the worst. Pessimism as therapy, if you will. My disagreement with you–and again, I sincerely hope I am wrong–is that I don’t believe there are “undecided voters.” I count them solidly in the Idiot’s camp. As I have written too many times, focusing on them puts the real task at risk: getting out the vote, protecting and comforting those who vote on Election Day. Based on the obstruction of long lines, faulty voting machines, lack of publicizing the changing of polling stations, et al, , they will need food, drink, medical care, and ways to fight off intimidation.
GregB,
You are absolutely right that our democracy is in danger and Trump might win, but that has nothing to do with the debate! If anything the debate made that a smidgeon less likely to happen because it stopped dead in its track the only false meme that had any traction (which is why it always is mentioned by our resident purveyor of right wing propaganda.)
No one can even mention their fake concern about Biden’s dementia. It just makes them look like an idiot. I saw a bit of a panel of undecideds and what struck me is that the ones who spoke thoughtfully were drawn to Biden. Do you know why? Because Biden convinced them he wasn’t a left wing Marxist who would do Bernie Sanders’ bidding!! I found that interesting, how the ones now turning to Biden had said they were concerned that he was way too “radical” and now felt better.
On the other hand, the ones who were either undecided or the few who moved to Trump had the most ridiculous reasons. This was their typical logic:
I know Trump is unfit and lies and angry and awful and horrible. But Biden hasn’t convinced me that he won’t lie to me, too. I just don’t know if he is up for the job!
It’s like they say “Trump is truly, truly awful, but since I don’t yet have any idea whether Biden would be even more awful than the very worst president we have ever had, because he hasn’t convinced me yet with his normal temperament and responses, I’m going to have to go with the man who had already proven to me that he is the most awful president in history!”
But of course there is a danger that has nothing to do with this debate. Trump will do anything to win – cheat or drum up violence. That’s the danger. Not Biden’s debate performance.
I don’t disagree with anything you just said. From the way Trump acted, I’m not sure he cares what “nonbelievers” think. He is out to create mayhem which means we have to be ever alert and prepared to confront any roadblocks he might attempt to throw in the way of voting.
There’s a word for all of this: Squalor.
It’s all so embarrassing.
To be honest, Bob, I didn’t watch. I’ve been listening to the recap on the BBC and WBUR’s “On Point.” What a mess.
markstext I doubt Trump could sink lower in the estimation of what used-to-be our allies. On the other hand, he keeps trying to do so. CBK
Mark I usually can’t watch Trump for more than a minute or two at a time, but I actually made it through the first 45 mins of the debate. It had the fascination of a slow-motion train wreck.
Stating the Obvious
The forest floor
Is full of trees
And I’m a boor
And full of mes
SomeDAM Some talking head brought up the point later that many of the California fires are in NATIONAL FORESTS. CBK
I lasted for about half and hour. Trump was out of control and Mike Wallace had no control of the false and filibustering assaults on Biden. Like others, I have watched some clips of this fiasco. Not even Eva Moskowitz can discipline Trump.
“Not even Eva Moskowitz can discipline Trump.”
Insider teacher joke!
Imagine Trump standing with his hands clasped and cheeks puffed out quietly waiting for Biden to finish.
Impossible.
Laura Trump’s stream of consciousness is like a runaway steamroller . . . that is to say “mindless.” I also thought, under the circumstances and with no “off” button or operative baseball bat, Wallace did as good as could be expected.
I also thought Biden was as gracious as could be expected. Where graciousness turns to whipping boy or doormat, however, is a tough call. CBK
Reblogged this on David R. Taylor-Thoughts on Education.
The next “debate” should be done virtually….both being shown on a large screen on the stage. Equipped with a mute button. Then the moderator will have control.
drext727; One comment that I read on a different site suggested that they each be in a different room where they can hear what is being said but can’t speak out until it is their time.
I doubt that Trump would submit to such an outrage. He knows he is the best and that such ideas would be coming from ‘those people’, probably Democrats.
If trump doesn’t agree, then just cancel then final two “shows”….it is very difficult to call it a debate.
Charlie Pierce backs this idea, too. A fine column here, because in darkness we still need humor. It may be all we can cling to:
“This is something that happened: in the very first segment of the very first presidential debate of 2020, the challenger, a former Vice President of the United States, already had called the incumbent president* of the United States a liar and a clown, and he told him to shut up. And he was right to do all three things.”
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a34215453/president-trump-first-debate-pure-fascism/?source=nl&utm_source=nl_esq&utm_medium=email&date=093020&utm_campaign=nl21593109
I was thinking maybe strap them into chairs elevated over a swimming pool– first guy to break the rules gets dumped in the drink.
A presidential mute
Is what we really need
A way to give the boot
Without impeachment need
Without impeachment deed
The simplest way to describe DJT is this:
“45=LCD”
He represents the lowest common denominator of our society.
There was no “debate.” Biden should simply decline to be involved in further fiascos like this. Trump is crazy. It’s a waste of time.
But even in the so-called debates that involve sane, adult candidates, unlike Trump, there is precious little actual debating. Instead, candidates trade prepared soundbites.
Agreed. I have not watched a debate in its entirety in years. This is the reason. The Nixon-Kennedy debate was pretty sound-bite itself, even during he days of pre-media savvy presentation. All down hill from there. Whether it was Reagan saying “there you go again” or similar zingers of a later day, little of reasonable policy has crossed the air in a modern debate.
Bob writes: “There was no ‘debate.’ Biden should simply decline to be involved in further fiascos like this. Trump is crazy. It’s a waste of time.”
. . . to which Trump and his Fox machine will say Biden is afraid. And so begins-again the twin strategies of smear and intimidation. CBK
Just to state
The gist of case:
No debate
But just debase
SDP
Stuff the blowfish up with Spackle
Spare next debate from more debacle
Yes!
Just in from WAPO: “News Alert: Commission on Presidential Debates says it will make changes to debate format after the spectacle in Cleveland”
“The nonpartisan group, which sponsors the presidential debates, said Tuesday’s debate, during which President Trump repeatedly interrupted Democratic nominee Joe Biden and moderator Chris Wallace, “made clear that additional structure should be added to the format of the remaining debates to ensure a more orderly discussion of the issues.” 09-30-20
It is totally partisan to change the debate structure to accommodate the candidate who won’t follow the rules.
Trump should get no second chance until he publicly apologizes to Fox News, the Commission on Public Debates and the American public for his behavior. He doesn’t have to apologize to Biden unless he wants to do so.
If he doesn’t, then no debates. And THAT should come from the Commission on Presidential Debates.
No debates without an apology and acknowledgement that his behavior was wrong and won’t be repeated.
The first few comments posted at Milbank’s WaPo article are a gas. One revives Jane Goodall’s priceless comparison of Trump’s behavior to that of male chimp dominance rituals. Another hopes Biden accuses Trump of projecting in the next debate so we can hear the inevitable reply: “I’m not projecting— you’re projecting!” More: Biden was doing the equivalent of a ballet in a bombing raid. They should put a dog shock-collar on Trump.
Imagine having to step into your classroom this morning, virtual or otherwise, and having to find a way to respond to your students’ questions, comments and anxieties about the debate.
Teachers are carrying a heavy load. No way are they okay.
I watched the debate with my 16 yr old son. At first he thought it was funny, but then he realized how awful Trump’s behavior was when it got very personal about Biden’s sons’ drug problem. My son was disgusted about that. He told me that teenage boys act better than Trump. He related the debate to Socratic seminars that he did in 6th grade because the grade was based on participation….so everyone was constantly talking over one another and hurling insults to get their “participation” noticed. This was a dumpster fire with gasoline thrown on top for extra effect.
There is only ONE way to control Trump in any kind of debate.
Build two soundproofed transparent booths so the audience can see inside.
Lock Trump and Biden in their separate booths so Trump cannot claim it was unfair. Trump is the one that must be locked in a soundproofed transparent booth, not Biden because he is a mature adult.
Trump isn’t an adult or a child. He is a Saw Scaled Viper in human form. Even a cockroach is more mature than Trump.
The moderator has two switches to turn off the mikes in the booths. When Biden is answering a question, Trump’s mike is off, and he is locked in the booth so he cannot leave it and stalk around ranting so no one can hear Biden or the moderator.
When Trump gets his turn to talk, Biden’s mike is turned off so Trump cannot complain.
But Trump would never do it this way. He couldn’t answer a question to save his soul. The ONLY thing he has is a bully pulpit.
I think the pulpit part is lost on him.
Biden needed a bullhorn to tell Ugh! STFU. 😠
?ref_src=twsrctfw|twcamptweetembed|twterm1311134362956685317|twgrshare_3&ref_url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2020/09/30/kids-were-frightened-educators-were-horrified-there-was-this-please-let-an-experienced-teacher-moderate-next-debate/
Trump is proving that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. How many time has he said something stupid and had to claim he was joking or came up with some other stupid excuse, AFTER THE FACT?
……………………………………
Trump Tries to Step Out of the Proud Boys Mess He Created
The president claimed to not know who the group his own FBI has deemed “extremist” actually is.
Published Sep. 30, 2020 3:33PM ET
…The Proud Boys celebrated Trump’s remarks on Tuesday night, seeing Trump’s refusal to denounce them as a sign of his support. The group redesigned their logo on Tuesday night to incorporate “stand back, stand by” as a new slogan.
Others went further. Joe Biggs, a prominent Proud Boy who has worn shirts declaring “I’m Just Here for the Violence” and celebrating the executions of left-wing Chilean activists thrown from helicopters, posted that Trump’s remarks were permission to “go fuck them up.”
“Trump basically said to go fuck them up!” Biggs wrote on Parler, a social media network popular with conservatives. “This makes me so happy.”
Extremist groups like the Proud Boys saw Trump’s debate remarks as a “green light,” according to Lindsay Schubiner, a program director at the left-leaning Western States Center, which tracks the Proud Boys and other far-right groups…
https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-tries-to-step-out-of-the-proud-boys-mess-he-created?source=email&via=desktop
The bully doesn’t want to alienate his far right ‘stand up for’ violence people. KKK are also “good people”. [He stepped in deep doo doo and now has to backtrack] “Stand by” means be ready to fight if I lose the election by fraud.
……………………………………………
The president told reporters Wednesday afternoon that he is unfamiliar with the Proud Boys group — which has white supremacist ties and sometimes employs nationalist rhetoric — despite seeming familiar with them on Tuesday night.
“I don’t know who the Proud Boys are,” Trump told reporters. “I mean, you’ll have to give me a definition, because I really don’t know who they are. I can only say they have to stand down. Let law enforcement do their work.”
Video:** ‘Proud Boys, stand back and stand by’: Trump doesn’t condemn white supremacists at debate**
September 29, 2020 | 9:26 PM EDT
During the first presidential debate against former vice president Joe Biden in Cleveland, President Trump on Sept. 29 undercut assessments by the national security community and said violence mainly comes from far-left groups.
https://wapo.st/2SbSDHu
Trump is dangerous and a threat to our democracy.
………………………………………………….
Tuesday’s Debate Made Clear the Gravest Threat to the Election: The President Himself
Sept. 30, 2020
President Trump’s unwillingness to say he would abide by the result and his disinformation campaign about election fraud went beyond anything President Vladimir V. Putin could have imagined.
President Trump’s angry insistence in the last minutes of Tuesday’s debate that there was no way the presidential election could be conducted without fraud amounted to an extraordinary declaration by a sitting American president that he would try to throw any outcome into the courts, Congress or the streets if he was not re-elected.
His comments came after four years of debate about the possibility of foreign interference in the 2020 election and how to counter such disruptions. But they were a stark reminder that the most direct threat to the electoral process now comes from the president of the United States himself.
Mr. Trump’s unwillingness to say he would abide by the result, and his disinformation campaign about the integrity of the American electoral system, went beyond anything President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia could have imagined. All Mr. Putin has to do now is amplify the president’s message, which he has already begun to do….
The president began the debate with a declaration that balloting already underway was “a fraud and a shame” and proof of “a rigged election.”
It quickly became apparent that Mr. Trump was doing more than simply trying to discredit the mail-in ballots that are being used to ensure voters are not disenfranchised by a pandemic — the same way of voting that five states have used for years with minimal fraud.
He followed it by encouraging his supporters to “go into the polls” and “watch very carefully,” which seemed to be code words for a campaign of voter intimidation, aimed at those who brave the coronavirus risks of voting in person.
And Mr. Trump’s declaration that the Supreme Court would have to “look at the ballots” and that “we might not know for months because these ballots are going to be all over” seemed to suggest that he would try to place the election in the hands of a court where he has been rushing to cement a conservative majority with his nomination of Judge Amy Coney Barrett.
And if he cannot win there, he has already raised the possibility of using the argument of a fraudulent election to throw the decision to the House of Representatives, where he believes he has an edge because every state delegation gets one vote in resolving an election with no clear winner. At least for now, 26 of those delegations have a majority of Republican representatives…
“We have never heard a president deliberately cast doubt on an election’s integrity this way a month before it happened,” said Michael Beschloss, a presidential historian and the author of “Presidents of War.” “This is the kind of thing we have preached to other countries that they should not do. It reeks of autocracy, not democracy.”
But what worried American intelligence and homeland security officials, who have been assuring the public for months now that an accurate, secure vote could happen, was that Mr. Trump’s rant about a fraudulent vote may have been intended for more than just a domestic audience.
They have been worried for some time that his warnings are a signal to outside powers — chiefly the Russians — for their disinformation campaigns, which have seized on his baseless theme that the mail-in ballots are ridden with fraud. But what concerns them the most is that over the next 34 days, the country may begin to see disruptive cyberoperations, especially ransomware, intended to create just enough chaos to prove the president’s point.
Those who studied the 2016 election have seen this coming for a long while and warned about the risk. The Republicans who led Senate Intelligence Committee’s final report on that election included a clear warning…
AWWWH.
…………………
After debate debacle, Trump gets advice from his most trusted advisers: ‘Fox & Friends’ hosts and guests
President Trump’s allies seem to think his performance in Tuesday’s presidential debate fell a bit short. So on Wednesday they went on Trump’s favorite morning program, the relentlessly pro-Trump “Fox & Friends” on Fox News, to offer a few pointers for the next time around.
“The president interrupted way too much,” said Stephen Moore, a familiar pro-Trump commentator. “Mr. President, please don’t do that in the next debate.”…
Then there was Ari Fleischer, the former press secretary to George W. Bush, who offered his counsel to Trump with the help of visual aids. Fleischer took out a small whiteboard on which he wrote a few remedial instructions:
1) Interrupt less
2) Let Biden Flail
3) Sum it up
…But the hosts and guests on “Fox & Friends” usually come to praise Trump, not to advise him on how he can win a debate. So Moore and Fleischer’s comments implicitly amount to something Trump and his most loyal supporters have so far declined to acknowledge: He did poorly on Tuesday.
Several instant post-debate surveys backed up this impression. CNN’s poll gave Biden a huge advantage, with 60 percent said he won the debate to 28 percent for Trump. In a CBS News survey, 48 percent said Biden won while 41 percent favored Trump. They overwhelmingly called the debate’s tone negative.
“Fox & Friends” co-host Brian Kilmeade also weighed in with some criticism, saying that Trump “blew the biggest layup the history of debates” by not condemning white supremacists when he was given several opportunities by debate moderator Chris Wallace. After Biden mentioned the right-wing extremists Proud Boys, Trump said the group should “Stand back, stand by” — a phrase the Proud Boys quickly made into a T-shirt slogan.
“I don’t know if he didn’t hear it, but he’s got to clarify that right away,” Kilmeade said. “That’s like [being asked], ‘Are you against evil?’ Why the president didn’t knock that out of the park I’m not sure.”
Kilmeade did find something to dislike about Biden, saying, “If you’re going to say that President Trump was rude, there was only one person who called the other one a clown, a racist, the worst president ever and told [him] to shut up. And that was Joe Biden on Donald Trump.”
But the “Fox & Friends” hosts mostly tried a pox-on-both-houses approach by expressing disappointment with Biden and Trump….
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/media/fox-and-friends-offer-trump-debate-advice/2020/09/30/15e6500c-0326-11eb-a2db-417cddf4816a_story.html
The Hill:
Tuesday’s night debate was a comedown for many Republicans who were flying high after the Senate GOP conference quickly unified behind Trump’s Supreme Court pick. Instead of spending Wednesday touting nominee Amy Coney Barrett, they spent the day fielding questions about the president’s refusal to directly rebuke white supremacist groups or to commit to a peaceful transfer of power.
GregB: Here is an article with some good background on Barrett, the Federalist Society, and “originalism” with quotes from her law articles, and interfaced with a recent book about these issues. CBK
SNIP:”For an originalist, the decision whether to follow erroneous precedent can be more than a matter of weighing the costs and benefits of change. At least in cases involving the interpretation of constitutional text, originalists arguably face a choice between following and departing from the law embodied in that text. While the debate about stare decisis is old, modern originalism introduced a new issue: the possibility that following precedent might sometimes be unlawful.”
Definition: Originalist —
Someone who believes the 2nd Amendment entitles you to carry a flintlock in a well-regulated militia. Anything more than that and they’re just blowing smoke.
You mean the Proud Boys aren’t a well regulated militia?! (snark alert) I already know they probably would have no idea how to shoot a flintlock.
Proud Boys! Proud Boys!
Goeth Before The
Fall Guys! Fall Guys!
Video: America Wrote the Pandemic Playbook, Then Ignored It
By Johnny Harris, Nicholas Kristof and Adam B. Ellick
The U.S. spent 15 years preparing for the coronavirus. Why did we handle it so badly?
I hate it when links to videos don’t come through. Here is the full NYT article that contains the video. I was hoping to show the video and avoid the paywall. It is an excellent video that shows exactly why the U.S. did so poorly in containing COVID-19.
……………………….
How America Lost 200,000 Lives to Covid-19
The U.S. spent 15 years preparing for the coronavirus. Why did we handle it so badly?
Here is what happens when we have a president who knew that the virus was deadly but did nothing:
As of Saturday morning ET, the U.S. has had at least 7,337,807 cumulative confirmed cases of COVID-19 and at least 208,779 deaths, according to Johns Hopkins University.
First Debate Cold Open – SNL
Oct 4, 2020
Saturday Night Live
Chris Wallace (Beck Bennett) moderates the first presidential debate between Donald Trump (Alec Baldwin) and Joe Biden (Jim Carrey).
I was very disappointed by this skit on SNL.
I agree. There were some funny moments but Biden should have been presented better. I am not a fan of Jim Carrey.
The skit portrayed Trump as a goon and Biden as an empty fool. Ugly
I thought one of the reasons Jim Carrey was picked to portray Biden was because of his art work that makes fun of Trump.
…………………………………..
Jim Carrey’s latest Trump painting features flaming swastika-shaped hair and Hitler
https://www.newsweek.com/jim-carreys-latest-trump-painting-features-flaming-swastika-shaped-hair-hitler-1535361
“I will put a mask on when I think I need it,” Trump said, pulling out what might’ve been a Kleenex from his coat pocket. “I don’t wear masks like him,” he said, pointing to Biden. “Every time you see him, he’s got a mask. He could be speaking 200 feet away and he shows up with the biggest mask I’ve ever seen.”