Medical experts and even some Trump advisors are questioning the validity of the estimates of likely coronavirus deaths released by Trump.
The estimate of 100,000-240,000 was hurriedly selected, but there is little agreement about whether it is too low or too high.
Leading disease forecasters, whose research the White House used to conclude 100,000 to 240,000 people will die nationwide from the coronavirus, were mystified when they saw the administration’s projection this week.
The experts said they don’t challenge the numbers’ validity but that they don’t know how the White House arrived at them.
White House officials have refused to explain how they generated the figure — a death toll bigger than the United States suffered in the Vietnam War or the 9/11 terrorist attacks. They have not provided the underlying data so others can assess its reliability or provided long-term strategies to lower that death count.
Some of President Trump’s top advisers have expressed doubts about the estimate, according to three White House officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly.
There have been fierce debates inside the White House about its accuracy. At a task force meeting this week, according to two officials with direct knowledge of it, Anthony S. Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told others there are too many variables at play in the pandemic to make the models reliable: “I’ve looked at all the models. I’ve spent a lot of time on the models. They don’t tell you anything. You can’t really rely upon models.”
Robert Redfield, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the vice president’s office have similarly voiced doubts about the projections’ accuracy, the three officials said.

I read recently that Trump has a reelection war room and Steve Bannon is unofficially in charge. From what I read, Trump talks to Bannon every day on his private mobile phone that Trump refuses to turn in for an encrypted government one.
Bannon’s job is to come up with a winning warlike propaganda strategy, lies and all, to mislead the public and help Trump win reelection in November.
Based on that sketchy info, I’m going to stretch a bit further and guess that overpredicting the death count from the virus is intentional so Trump can take fake victory laps later claiming that because of his stable genius leadership skills, the greatest leader in world history, he managed to keep the total death count down and save lives.
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He’s not overpredicting it. As always, he is trying to downplay it. The 100M-240K estimate would require an extremely unrealistic morbidity rate (rate of infection of the general population) and an extremely unrealistic R0 (number of persons whom an infected person then infects). Such low estimates could be accurate only if there were a lot of existing herd immunity–if we are in the second and more lethal round of this thing. That doesn’t seem very likely to me.
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So, Trump is under predicting in an attempt to make him look good, as usual.
Trump doesn’t have any critical thinking skills. With 8 months before the election, his attempt to downplay the pandemic in the US will be revealed. In reality, he is gambling with the odds against him.
But, with help from Faux (known as Fox News due to their misleading logo) and scoundrels like Limbaugh and Alex Jones, Trump’s support base will remain clueless and only believe what Trump says, because they will not hear anything else and if they do, they will believe Trump’s “it’s fake news” propaganda.
Sites like Propublica will have timelines with links to all of Trump’s lies and misleading comments (straight out of his mouth and/or tweets), but his base will ignore all that.
Good thing his base is the smaller of the two:
Never Trump – always more than 50 percent
Always Trump – always under 45 percent
But, will the pandemic play into Trump’s favor?
“Pandemic threatens monster turnout in November”
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/31/states-struggle-voting-pandemic-155700
With a monster turnout, Trump loses bigly.
With a smaller turnout, his base will vote even if it kills them, and he could win a slim victory.
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I have been watching a documentary on Netflix called “Tiger King.” It has nothing to do with politics yet I feel that I’m watching a goodly representation of the Orange One’s base.
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“Nobody knew there’d be a pandemic or an epidemic of this proportion,” Trump said March 19 in comments in the Rose Garden. “Nobody has ever seen anything like this before.” The crisis is “an unforeseen problem” that “came out of nowhere,” Trump said on March 6. “We’re having to fix a problem that, four weeks ago, nobody ever thought would be a problem,” he said on March 11. “It’s something that nobody expected,” he said again on March 14. “Nobody would have ever thought a thing like this could have happened,” he added on March 26th. –from CNN
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Since everything in Trump’s world had to be all about Trump, when he says “nobody”, he is really talking about himself, because of no one else counts and what he thinks, says or tweets is the only truth out there according to Humpty Dumpty’s unwritten rules
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TRUMPTY DUMPTY: “Nobody knew about this.”
ALICE: “But you were the only one who didn’t know.”
TRUMPTY DUMPTY: “When I say ‘Nobody,’ I mean me.
ALICE: You can’t just make up the definitions of words.
TRUMPTY DUMPTY: And why not? It’s a matter of who’s going to be master, that’s all.
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You must have left out some of what Trumpty Dumpty said when you were transcribing, because some of his standard words were not there like “perfect” or “winning” or “stupid” or “weak” or “loser” or “fake news” or “deep state” or “politically correct” or “drain the swamp” or “smart” …
https://www.yourdictionary.com/slideshow/donald-trump-20-most-frequently-used-words.html
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Back during the impeachment and Senate trial, he started using “disgraceful” all the time. And then there are all his favorite phrases: Am I right? Believe me. And his tendency to tack “OK?” on the ends of questions.
Years ago, I attended a lecture on Chaucer’s Wife of Bath’s Tale by the great medievalist E. Talbot Donaldson. He pointed out that the Wife is constantly asserting that what she says is the truth, which is a sure sign that she is lying. Same with Don the Con–Believe me. Am I right? OK? All saying, “what I’m saying is true.” Which means that he knows that it isn’t.
No, Mom, I most certainly didn’t take a cookie from the jar, OK? Didn’t happen. Believe me. You know I didn’t. I would never. What cookie jar? I didn’t even know we had a jar.
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His mother says, “Who broke the cookie jar and ate all the cookies?”
Trump replies, “What cookie jar? I didn’t know we had a cookie jar.”
Mother: “Your shirt is covered in cookie crumbs!”
Trump: “This isn’t my shirt. Obama stole mine and left his behind so I put his on because I was perfectly cold, OK?”
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Until Hospital systems get swamped the mortality rate is as low as 0.6 or even 0.4 of the total infected population. But with 20 % requiring hospitalization systems get swamped from the start . So we stated at around 1.1 % mortality of those that had been tested mostly moderately ill or worse. At this point we are at a 2.7 % mortality rate of that same mostly sick population .
Italy was all the way up to 11% mortality rate a few days ago the WHO calls it 3.4% based on China. Yet there are indications that may not reflect actual deaths in China . As even Italy is not counting those who die at home of Covid .
Further those that die of other causes because they are not able to receive medical care; a stroke or heart attack victim who made it into a hospital ICU in minutes but now waits for an Ambulance or hesitates calling one are also victims.
No one knows what effect the social distancing and lock downs will have on the number. But they have been too little too late and we are on a slope greater than Italy and Italy may not have peaked yet in spite of being locked down weeks ago .
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The number of deaths reported from COVID-19 might not be accurate, especially in states controlled by the GOP, if the death certificate says the patient died from pneumonia or an acute respiratory infection.
For instance, in Russia, “Anastasia Vasilyeva, a doctor for Russian opposition figure Alexey Navalny and leader of the Alliance of Doctors union, made headlines with a series of videos in which she claims the authorities are covering up real coronavirus numbers by using pneumonia and acute respiratory infection as a diagnosis.”
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/21/europe/putin-coronavirus-russia-intl/index.html
The only way to determine the truth would be to have access to how many people were dying from pneumonia and acute respiratory infection before the pandemic and how many are dying during the pandemic. If the numbers are up for those two, then someone is fudging the facts to benefit their political agenda just like it appears Putin is doing in Russia.
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Birx said that those extremely low estimates would be possible only if we did everything “perfectly.” I have a further comment about this, but it is in moderation.
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Birx should just resign in shame. You are part of the solution or you are part of the problem. She is a discredited part of the problem. To stand there loudly asserting in the2 hr sh!t show that we had tested as many as South Korea. Doing so with the reporters Mics modulated so that if they were bright enough to follow up that we are 5.5 times the size.. That at the time we had probably tested the lowest rate per population in the G20 .
Then when asked why we just didn’t copy the German test basically the WHO test, she took that question and again made an asinine assertion. She claimed that it had a 45 to 50 % failure rate. Reporters than followed in the next few days to find out that was bald faced lie. It was actually a highly effective test . When confronted days later off stage she admitted that although asked specifically about the WHO test she was referring to a very early Chinese test. Then pressed further about the issue she said she never examined the WHO test (BULL) but assumed it was functional.
I can not say on the internet what I would like to see happen to this entire group of —————- nor use the language I would like to use on Diane’s page.
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I’ve watched carefully her body language and comments during the Trump Pep Rallies. Here’s my read: I think that she’s an actual scientist who is trying desperately to work closely with this man and check his worst impulses and that she understands fully that Jabba the Trump has to be continuously flattered and built up and this requires giving lip service to whatever stupid notion is taking up all the limited space in the man’s brain. It’s a thankless task, but a necessary one. She’s the one with responsibility for the care and feeding and restraining of the monster. She might well be the hero in this farce.
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Bob Shepherd
That is what we say about all his appointments. Perhaps if Fauci and her addressed the nation and announced that they could no longer participate in the Charade we would be better off . Fauci has a long history of service he don’t need Trump. I think you are being generous. Tucker Carlson and Bannon might be more responsible for his temporary come to God moment than Fauci and Birx. He does not believe in science. He knows more than the generals and any scientists on the planet. As thinks the vast majority of his ignorant supporters.
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To follow on Joel’s comment, it won’t happen, but imagine the effect it would have if Fauci resigned and spilled the beans. He could save lives and possibly a nation.
Also, Joel, you likely missed the discussion we had on it, but we don’t “believe” in science. 😷
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I don’t know where the Trump administration is getting its numbers – I don’t even want to begin to analyze the “thinking” (sic) that goes on among Trump’s people.
However, the CDC itself, as reported by the New York Times, has predicted that anywhere from 200,000 to 1.7 million Americans could die of the disease, depending on different scenarios about how the disease is spread. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/13/us/coronavirus-deaths-estimate.html Granted, those are worst-case numbers and do not account for measures currently being taken. But based on the CDC numbers, I don’t think the White House numbers are over-inflated. In fact, we’re already edging up on 7,000 U.S. deaths and the numbers are rising sharply by the day.
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So…. he started with the Church “If You Didn’t See it, it Didn’t Happen” strategy (“what abuse?”) …
to the Chernobyl Effect strategy (the evidence was literally on the ground right in front of them and they refused to accept it was radioactive) ..
to Chicken Little.
(I was going to say he’s like a coach who makes a pregame speech and tells the media that the team is going to get clobbered – and then when they lose by a smaller margin the coach is a genius – – – – but this president has zero concept of what a team is (ever wonder why he only plays golf – and has an idiot cabinet))
Seriously – this is unprecedented. If it were one of the dictators and countries he salivates over, a coup would be in order.
But what is the answer here for a lying, misleading, no-evidence in-a-democracy president whose actions are allowing thousands to die? No one has been removed from office for being a liar or idiot. (Well, Nixon but that was also a crime)
CEOs have boards that read the books and would have someone like him out on his ear. School districts and cities have boards would have superintendents out on their ears if they use a district credit card or, oh, like Atlanta test scores.
Small towns and maybe counties have recalls to oust Mayors and or force county executives to resign (before they go to jail).
Presidents?
25th Amendment is the only mechanism and those loyal fools would follow him over a cliff.
Are there any Constitutional crimes and misdemeanors here? (Wouldn’t that be something when this is over if we see Impeachment 2.0)
The Senate could turn on him once they realize his coattails will kill them – but that ain’t gonna happen.
There’s no suits to file or “being a liar” laws broken.
Although he’s lost the hold-my-nose voters’ “but look at the economy and unemployment numbers” argument (both are now lower than when he started – they just muddle along because they don’t like Obama (Biden) or Sanders.
His gazillionaire base – heck his fund raising has increased previous quarters. (duh, gun sales are out of the roof).
The other angry man base thinks the whole thing’s a conspiracy.
November? The election can’t be changed from everything I have read – but he’ll figure out how to go door to door to the over 65 crowd (like me) and to every southern state with absentee ballots.
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Oh, no. They’re such a disaster. Everything they say is either a lie or just wrong.
It is hard for me to believe anyone in the Trump Administration can handle getting this huge economic rescue out to people.I hope no one is counting on that money. These are not people who come through in an emergency.
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A dose of reality about supposedly expert opinions and predictions, all of which were made in good faith. Best wishes to everyone here.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/04/03/virus_experts_early_statements_belie_prescient_portrayal_142845.html
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TRUMPTY DUMPTY: Nobody knew about this.
ALICE: But you were the only one who didn’t know.
TRUMPTY DUMPTY: When I say “Nobody,” I mean me.
ALICE: You can’t just make up the definitions of words.
TRUMPTY DUMPTY: And why not? It’s a matter of who’s going to be master, that’s all.
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OR
TRUMPTY DUMPTY: Nobody knew about this.
ALICE: But you were the only one who didn’t know.
TRUMPTY DUMPTY: OK. OK. I didn’t know. That’s what ‘Nobody’ means. It means ‘I.”
ALICE: You can’t just make up the definitions of words.
TRUMPTY DUMPTY: And why not? It’s a matter of who’s going to be master, that’s all.
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Bob…
I think your ‘Trumpty Dumpty’ is a GREAT invention. Let’s hope others can spread it.
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Vlad’s Agent Orange;
IQ45;
Our Part-time President;
The Great Bloated Trumpkin;
Donald (J for Jabba) the Trump;
Teflon Don, the Sequel;
The Great White (Supremacist) Hope;
The Don, Cheeto (“Little Fingers”) Trumpbalone;
Prez Pinocchio;
Trumpty Dumpty;
Don the Con;
Donnie Orange and the Trumpeteers;
The Man with the Plan and the Tan-in-a-Can;
Dog-Whistle Don
Oh, for a Muse of fire! Oh, for the proper invective to reflect, fully, the incomparable vileness of the man! I picked up “IQ45,” my favorite of these, from some wag on this blog–GregB? SomeDAM? Early in this maladministration, I saw an editorial cartoon that pictured him as Humpty Dumpty, sitting on his wall.
Trumpty Dumpty wanted a wall.
He wanted it big; he wanted it tall.
(Though no good would come of it, no good at all.)
Even right-wingers could easily see
a racist boondoggle in Trump’s fantasy.
but driven by terror of those with brown skin,
he asked Fox and Fiends to give it some spin,
for there was no depth of utter insanity
too murky for Carlson and Ingram and Hannity.
who turned, as by magic, some poor refugees
into threats that would soon bring us all to our knees.
Shutting down government over the wall
should surely have led Trumpty Dumpty to fall,
but this he survived till he started denying
the viral pandemic, denying and lying.
Then all the spin doctors of all Fox and Friends
couldn’t put Trumpty together again.
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And, Daedalus, thank you.
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Prediction Predilection
The thing about prediction
It’s really hard to check
If really truth or fiction
Until you’ve dealt the deck
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Probability as Historical Frequency
The thing about prediction is,
you read yesterday’s news,
and how things turned out way back then
is news that you can use.
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One thing is certain
Future will tell
Which rough prediction
Didn’t do well
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This would all be so interesting to read about if we were 30 years in the future. I understand the “may you live in interesting times” thing now. I thought the politics of this administration alone was enough to fulfill the terms of the curse. Mixing in the pandemic to magnify their blunders even more seriously is completely unfair.
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I keep telling myself, GregB, that there were worse times. There was the holodomor, for example. But yes, the old curse: May you live in interesting times.
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The similarity between the headline above and Vietnam body counts also resonates.
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It’s tough to make predictions, especially about the future.
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And the future ain’t what it used to be!
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“Everyone’s an expert”
Everyone’s an expert
Except the ones who are
A talent to conjecture
Will really get you far
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The trick is to conjecture
Without a bat of eye
Like criminal inspector
To make the public buy
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Interestingly :. This from the CEPR. I guess the plan is not to test and pretend people died of boredom
https://cepr.net/press-release/daily-growth-of-covid-19-cases-has-slowed-nationally-over-the-past-week-but-this-could-be-because-the-growth-of-testing-has-practically-stopped/
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Thanks, I tweeted that.
The more we test, the more cases of the virus are identified.
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At this site and elsewhere, we read about evangelical churches that ignore medial experts recommendations related to Covid 19. I’ll add to the discussion, WaPo’s (3-15-2020) description of St. Charles Catholic Church which held in-person services and communion. (Arlington Va., near D.C.)
The idea of Evangelicals and Catholics Together was also present in the co-signed letter 3-24-2020 to Trump’s Sec. of Health and Human Services asking for an abortion ban. Evidently, pro-life is limited to issues related to women’s sexuality (forced or not) because it appears the US Conference of Catholic Bishops had no statement of criticism for Trump when he called the pandemic a Democratic hoax.
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