Secretary of the Treasury Steven Mnuchin insulted environmental activist Greta Thunberg at the World Economic Forum in Davos, saying she should study economics. Although I’m no economist, it seems to me that the cost of intensified earthquakes, hurricanes, rising seas, and the health risks associated with extreme climate events far outweighs the profits of the fossil fuel industry. But then, I’m no economist.
The Washington Post consulted an economist:
Speaking to reporters at the World Economic Forum’s annual gathering in Switzerland, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin was asked about calls from climate change activists such as Greta Thunberg for investors to pull their money out of fossil fuel stocks.
Mnuchin jokingly pretended to be unfamiliar with Thunberg, who even while still a teenager has become a leading global proponent of addressing the warming planet. Last year, she was Time magazine’s “Person of the Year.”
“Is she the chief economist or who is she? I’m confused,” Mnuchin said of Thunberg. He questioned her credentials to offer solutions: “After she goes and studies economics in college, she can come back and explain that to us.”
The Washington Post contacted someone who did study economics in college and asked him to explain it to us. Gernot Wagner is an economist who has a joint A.B. in economics and environmental science in public policy from Harvard University, a master’s degree in economics from Stanford University, a master’s in political economy in government from Harvard, and a PhD in political economy and government from Harvard.
According to Wagner, Thunberg doesn’t need to go much further than Economics 101 to make her case.
Speaking specifically about calls to divest, Wagner pointed to a letter released this month by BlackRock chief executive Larry Fink. In it, Fink announced the asset management firm he controls will divest — move investments away — from companies like those that are centered on fossil fuels and contribute to climate change.
The evidence on climate risk is compelling investors to reassess core assumptions about modern finance,” Fink wrote in the letter, according to the New York Times.
“It’s precisely this scenario of having fossil fuels go the way of tobacco that makes fossil fuel execs the most nervous,” Wagner told The Post. He noted that Shell Oil Co. predicted the rise of activists focused on climate change — back in 1998.
But, again, the question is economics, not politics.
Wagner, who spent nearly a decade working for the Environmental Defense Fund, explained the economic argument for applying pressure on oil companies. “It’s Economics 101 that tells us that when there is a difference between private costs and costs to society, that difference ought to be included in one’s decision-making,” Wagner said.
“And when I say ought, of course the private individual won’t; it’s up to somebody in a position of power — let’s say the secretary of Treasury — to want to guide economic policy in the right direction.”
The little Munchkin man. What a moron.
He evidently skipped class the day they discussed externalized costs. LOL.
Aka negative externalities
Mnuchin is a vicious, vulture capitalist of questionable ethics. He was accused by Sears of asset stripping, and he led Goldman Sachs. Mnuchin is opportunist that profited from the mortgage crisis that caused thousands of Americans to lose their homes. Thunberg is a young climate activist and humanist. She could give the dismissive Mnuchin pointers on how to be a better human being. Mnuchin is unconcerned about climate change as he has enough assets to live on a mountain top near the Arctic circle for the rest of his life while the rest of us struggle to survive. He could care less.
Stephen Munchkin Man.
Greta should study economics, and business, and philosophy, and anthropology. It will make her a very well rounded individual. None of those subjects (or any others) will change her mind about climate change and the imminent danger to the planet by our carbon footprint.
What a wonderful, principled, young woman. A true leader, at 16. The conscience of the world. We’ve rarely seen such. Mary Shelley wrote Frankenstein at 18, creating a new genre of literature, the Science Fiction novel, and introducing the them of technological hubris gone awry–so important today.
Munchkin: pick on someone your own size. She towers over you morally.
People like Mnuchin are very stupid to go after Thunberg.
It just makes them look foolish, but they will never learn.
Yeah. It’s actually pretty hilarious.
Or would be if this venal criminal weren’t making policy.
Greta Thunberg is a giant. Her critics are tiny little gnats.
She is eloquent. They are unable to speak a complete sentence.
And he was a key player, ofc, in the Ukraine scam for which the Boss was impeached and is being tried. The Don, Cheeto “Littlefingers” Trumpbalone’s Consigliere.
He’s not getting the human extinction concept is he?
I guess human extinction does matter because if we are all gone, who will buy the oil and gas?
He has his, so it doesn’t matter.
Very proud of the Democrats and the outstanding case they are presenting in the trial. Adam Schiff, statesman.
I agree. I think they have done an outstanding job. They are telling a story with facts that the average person can understand. Schiff is an excellent orator and they all have done their parts well.
This “trial” is no trial at all.
A trial has evidence and witnesses.
Trump’s defenders want to block all evidence and witnesses.
What they suggest is that they have no defense at all.
And they have the numbers needed to block a real trial.
Why are they afraid of evidence?
There’s an old saying:
When the law is on your side, you emphasize the law.
When the facts are on your side, you emphasize the facts.
When neither the facts nor the law are on your side, you bang the table.
Beautifully said, Diane. And spot on.
My letter to our Indiana senators plus our local and Indianapolis newspapers:
Concerning the Senate trial of Donald Trump:
In a legitimate trial the seeking for truth is the ABSOLUTE bottom line, the raison d’être
Is the search for truth the bottom line for this trial? Is a complete line of all relevant witnesses and documents to be sought and examined? Or; “Don’t confuse me with facts. My mind is already made up?
“Truth, the first victim of tyranny.”
Is the office of the presidency to become a dictatorship where a president is able to stifle any inquiry to legitimate concerns about his actions?
Has the search for ultimate good, truth, and beauty succumbed to lies?
How many lies has this president put forth in the years he has been president?
Does the Republican party stand for truth or to protect their party, protect that kind of a leader? Is his the kind of morality and change of the long philosophical search for ultimate good, truth, and beauty which Republicans wish to pass on to their children?
Are there ANY statesmen left to stand for truth or only politicians protecting their posteriors?
GREAT question.
Please do not send me a form letter in response. I have seen and read the BOGUS Republican responses already. TRUTH or lies and ignorance?
Steve Munchen needs his mouth washed out with soap after having his tongue removed.
Sneering at one’s opposite in a debate is only a ploy in a situation where fascism is one side of the debate. Hitler sneered at Chamberlin. He sneered at Roosevelt. Mussolini sneered at democracy for all its inadequacies. I will be glad for Mr. Munchen to present a logical argument why those who have benefitted the most from the effects of fossil fuels should not shoulder the costs of its effects. I doubt he will do that.
Super Fund sites all over the US attest to the fact that industry rarely pays. Instead old industries, like old soldiers, fade away, leaving the ruin of their adventures for others to clean up.
Hmmm, I sneer at those in power quite a bit. Does that make me a fascist?
Well, the Repugnican song and dance at the “trial” begins tomorrow:
“Start spreading thin ooze. . . .”
For Donald “J for Jabba” the Trump, ofc.
An party on its knees, slippin’ and slidin’ in sleeze.
cx: An entire party on its knees, slippin’ and slidin’ in sleeze
Hopefully slip slidin away!
According to the Democratic testimony right now, Ambassador Marie Louise “Masha” Yovanovitch received a frantic telephone call telling her to get on a plane right away and return to the U.S., as this was a matter of her immediate security.
Someone got wind of a plot to take her out.
This is really sick stuff.
Well, maybe not “frantic.” This was from Ambassador Yovanovitch’s testimony. She said that Carol Perez, who is Director General of the Foreign Service, told her, “This is about your security. You need to come home immediately. You need to get on the next plane.” She said that she was “very, very concerned.”
She might have been assassinated.
It’s just too awful to contemplate. Trump’s gangsters or Putin’s. She is such an impressive person.
Study economics??
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ad infinitum.
Economics, the dismally inane pseudo-science.
Well, there’s Thomas Pikkety. But yes, this is a “science” in which people routinely talk about “free markets” with no concept whatsoever that it’s insane to speak of markets that vast numbers of people can’t participate in as free. Much of it is not science but theology that uses circular arguments (akin to the ontological argument in theology) to explain to the poor many why it’s such a good idea for them to be exploited by the few. Many economists are official court singers of the emerging global oligarchy. They are paid to be myopic and uncritical, to propagandize, just as their fellow cads, the so-called Evolutionary Psychologists are. And speaking of ontological arguments: https://bobshepherdonline.wordpress.com/2014/02/22/the-tractatus-comico-philosophicus-rene-descartes/
You know that you are dealing with a questionable “science” when one of the most cited papers in the field is Garret Hardin’s “The Tragedy of the Commons,” which argues that the incentive, when there is a resource held in common, is for cheaters to overuse and deplete it. But, of course, this ignores completely the fact of the longevity of the Commons in situation after situation throughout history and prehistory. The actual situation, of course, is that when people with a shared Commons cheated, they were severely sanctioned. In more sensible times, if some guy thought he would put a net across the river and take all the salmon, they would stuff him in a weir and burn him. LOL. But stuff like Hardin’s paper suit the theology. Private property, good. The Commons, bad. That’s why banks should own your ass. That’s why our system should be predicated on debt slavery for almost everyone throughout their miserable Prole lives. LOL. History doesn’t matter. The theology does.
Free Markets really mean free to rape and neglect the environment for profits, free of laws, free of rules, free to cheat the consumers and customers any way possible and free to pay your workers poverty wages with no benefits.
And Mnuchin is not just any old economist, he’s a “Yale trained” mnuckey.
“Although I’m no economist, it seems to me that the cost of intensified earthquakes, hurricanes, rising seas, and the health risks associated with extreme climate events far outweighs the profits of the fossil fuel industry. But then, I’m no economist.”
No, Diane, you are not an economist. If you were, you’d be convinced, you know what’s important to humanity, and that’s the economy.
“I’m no economist”
I’m no economist!
World is real
I’m no economist!
That’s the deal
I’m no economist!
Require proof
I’m no economist!
Speak the truth
I’m no economist!
Use my brain
I’m no economist!
Not insane!
I’m no economist!
Nor are you
We’re no economists!
Have a clue
Excellent again!!
I have been informed by a reader who is an earth scientist that climate change and fracking do not cause major earthquakes but apparently contribute to the proliferation of small earthquakes now felt in places like Oklahoma, where earthquakes are a near-daily occurrence.
Yes, we have an Earthquake Center at my university and there they told me the same thing—a few years ago.
Well, I know an earthquake hazards geologist with the USGS who studies historical earthquakes along the San Andreas fault and she has told me that small earthquakes along faults adjacent to a major fault like the San Andreas can actually increase the stress along the major fault, so it is not only possible but plausible that fracking could increase the probability of a major earthquake given the right set of circumstances.
Just because fracking may not have been associated with any major earthquakes to date does not mean it will not be in the future.
Finally, the word “cause” is problematic when talking about earthquakes, at any rate. Earthquake geologists don’t speak in such terms, particularly not with regard to large earthquakes because they are very complex and precisely what “causes” them (sets them off) is largely unknown. That’s why they speak in terms of probabilities.
Are the earthquakes in Oklahoma due to fracking?
“In a few cases, yes, but in most cases no. Only a few of the over 2000 magnitude 3 and larger earthquakes since 2009 that have occurred in Oklahoma have been connected to hydraulic fracturing.
“The majority of earthquakes in Oklahoma are caused by the industrial practice known as “wastewater disposal”.
Wastewater disposal is a separate process in which fluid waste from oil and gas production is injected deep underground far below groundwater or drinking water aquifers.
“In Oklahoma, over 90% of the wastewater that is injected is a byproduct of oil extraction process and not waste frack fluid.”
https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/oklahoma-now-has-more-earthquakes-a-regular-basis-california-are-they-due-fracking?qt-news_science_products=0#qt-news_science_products
“Fracking fluid is a toxic brew that consists of multiple chemicals. Industry can pick from a menu of up to 600 different kinds.”
http://www.gaslandthemovie.com/whats-fracking/faq/fracking-fluid
“Massive Fracking Plan Near Yellowstone National Park Threatens Wildlife, Air Quality, Climate”
And what about the Yellowstone Super Volcano? Will all that fracking set it off and destroy all life on Earth but cockroaches and Donald Trump?
https://www.ecowatch.com/fracking-wyoming-2475758304.html
August 27, 2014: Yellowstone Volcano 2014: Could Earthquakes Induced By U.S. Oil Fracking Cause A Supervolcano Eruption?
Read more: https://www.inquisitr.com/1398011/yellowstone-volcano-eruption-2014-could-earthquakes-triggered-by-u-s-oil-fracking-cause-a-supervolcano-to-blow/#ixzz6ByXtfFPo
Yellowstone’s greatest geological threat isn’t a supervolcano. It’s a magnitude-7 earthquake.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/science/2018/08/21/yellowstone-supervolcano-biggest-threat-large-quake/973640002/
Hydraulic fracturing drives earthquakes in western Canada, according to research published Thursday in Science. The results defy the often-touted belief that the disposal of wastewater is the sole source of man-made earthquakes with fossil fuel extraction technique.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/earthquakes-triggered-by-fracking
Thanks. I missed this one. More evidence explaining why oil companies should not be pulverizing the Earth’s crust to extract oil from rock and turning what’s left into a toxic slush. Beneath that crust is a lot of BAD stuff we do not want moving around or bubbling to the surface.
And another reason why Donald Trump is doing all he can to silence science.
The idea is that any fluid injected deep enough into the ground in the vicinity of faults can act to lubricate and cause “slippage”, which manifests as earthquakes.
It makes good physical sense and the data back up the hypothesis.
Mnuchin should be in federal prison for fraud. When he was head of OneWest Bank in CA from 2009- 2015 he repeatedly broke CA foreclosure laws & put thousands of people out of their homes. He was never prosecuted for his crimes. Essentially, why should anyone listen to him about anything- he’s a grifter.
https://theintercept.com/2017/01/03/treasury-nominee-steve-mnuchins-bank-accused-of-widespread-misconduct-in-leaked-memo/
“In the memo, the leaders of the state attorney general’s Consumer Law Section said they had “uncovered evidence suggestive of widespread misconduct” in a yearlong investigation. In a detailed 22-page request, they identified over a thousand legal violations in the small subsection of OneWest loans they were able to examine, and they recommended that Attorney General Kamala Harris file a civil enforcement action against the Pasadena-based bank. They even wrote up a sample legal complaint, seeking injunctive relief and millions of dollars in penalties.
But Harris’s office, without any explanation, declined to prosecute the case.”
Like so many in Wall St Mnuchin is a high class grifter.
There is a hope now that even billionaires go to prison:
Opioid company founder gets 5.5-year prison sentence
https://www.axios.com/insys-john-kapoor-opioids-prison-sentence-3830f9fe-21ad-4480-acd8-e45cbc7a97b6.html
The state attorney generals have to prosecute a white collar criminal every once in a while to make it look like they care.
And so they can run for office on a tough on crime platform.
It’s mostly for show.
In the Soviet Union, you could get the death sentence for white collar crimes.
You could also get the death sentence or, what is equivalent, years of hard labor in the Gulag for criticizing the supreme Soviet leader.
Solzhenitsyn got 8 years hard labor for making a passing comment about the “man with the mustache” (Stalin) in a letter to a “friend”.
And of course, Stalin killed people for simply thinking about him in the wrong way.
“suspecting” they were thinking about him in the wrong way was enough to get them killed
Trump wants the same power.
I don’t think many people in the US read Solzhenitysn’s work. I never read anything in any of my literature classes, but read a lot on my own.
A LOT of bank CEOs should be in jail, but got a pass during the time of Obama, whose justice department “failed” to prosecute them (the reality is they didn’t even try). Bank fraud expert Bill Black talks of jailing over 1000 bank execs after the Savings and Loan fraud and says the fraud related to the subprime mortgages that led up to and followed the financial meltdown of 07-08 was far more extensive than that of the S&L scandal. And of course, none have been prosecuted after Trump took the throne, either.
Non-prosecution is a bipartisan thing.
Mnuchin? Another one of the “experts” in the Trump quagmire that has led us to catastrophe, beyond that cataclysm. .
Money more important than people. Soon, a pile of money, no people.
“Of what use is a bag of gold in a desert?”
We need only look to Australia and Puerto Rico along with other catastrophes to view our planet’s future.
I will not reiterate here my post on Dr. Ravitch post but it is how I was TRYING to fight back.
The letters to our senators elicited a form response, which I asked them NOT to send me. How surprising? They did not even read my concerns.
The misinformation mill meanwhile is running full speed ahead.
God help us and especially our children and grandchildren. Beyond them?