Peter Greene writes regularly for Forbes, where this article appeared.
He explains for the umpteenth time (as I have done repeatedly) that the U.S. has never led the world on international tests, whether it was PISA, TIMSS, IEA, or any other.
He writes:
The top scores this year come from the usual batch of test takers,including the Chinese, who give the test to students from wealthy provinces.. PISA day is also the one day that some folks hear about Estonia, the tiny nation that somehow has not conquered the world even though their students do well on the PISA.
PISA coverage tends to overlook one major question—why should anyone care about these scores? Where is the research showing a connection between PISA scores and a nation’s economic, political, or global success? What is the conclusion to the statement, “Because they get high PISA scores, the citizens of [insert nation here] enjoy exceptionally good______” ?
Did US companies outsource work to India and China because of their citizens’ PISA scores, or because of low wages and loose regulation? Do we have the world’s most expensive health care system because of mediocre PISA scores? Which politicians have ridden to success on the PISA score platform pony? Are any geopolitical conflicts solved by whipping out the contending countries’ PISA scores for comparison? And is there a shred of evidence that raising PISA scores would improve life for US citizens (spoiler alert: no)?…
There will be discussions of what the PISA scores do or do not prove. Some of that is fair; Common Core and other ed reforms pushed by billionaires and thinky tanks and politicians and a variety of other non-educators were going to turn this all around. They haven’t. This comes as zero surprise to actual educators. It’s just one more data point showing that all the reform heaped on education since A Nation At Risk is not producing the promised results.
Remember when Arne Duncan promoted the “Race to the Top”? Remember when David Coleman and Bill Gates pledged that Common Core would close achievement gaps and raise the lowest-performing students closer to the top-performers? There comes a time when people must be held accountable for their promises.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
Weren’t PISA scores the basis for the notion that the U.S. should emulate Finland?
Initially, PISA drew attention to Finland. But Finland doesn’t care about test scores. It cares about happy, healthy children and expert teachers.
Finland is finished
Their children can play
Their future’s diminished
On PISA they’ll pay
This is way off topic and I apologize but I have to share this. NJ Patch sites are posting the names of NJ teachers who are earning over $100k or close to $100K. I think this is outrageous to post their names, salaries and school districts. What’s the point? To inflame the public?
From the Patch site:
NEW JERSEY – Teachers’ salaries are rising again, and six-figure salaries are no longer uncommon for educators in New Jersey. In fact, nearly 10,000 teachers make $100,000 or more. Patch has the list of 10,000-plus top-earning teachers and their salaries in 2019 below. [snip]
Kevin Looram, River Dell Regional High School, RIVER DELL REGIONAL, BERGEN $111,080
Patricia Longo, Bayonne High School, BAYONNE CITY, HUDSON $110,966
Rose Wilbeck, Philip G. Vroom Community School, BAYONNE CITY, HUDSON $110,966
Robert Kelly, Midtown Community School #8, BAYONNE CITY, HUDSON $110,966
ADELINE TOLENO, Medford Memorial Middle School, MEDFORD TWP, BURLINGTON $110,752
Pamela Murgo, Daniel Webster School, WEEHAWKEN TWP, HUDSON $110,594
MARY ANN STECHER, Lenape High School, LENAPE REGIONAL, BURLINGTON $110,369
JAMES J KLIKA, Hillside Elementary School, CLOSTER BORO, BERGEN $110,319
LILLIANE SPEER, McKenzie School, EAST RUTHERFORD BORO, BERGEN $110,240
DIANNE G GALLINA, Alternative High School, PATERSON CITY, PASSAIC $110,176
JOYCE NELSON, Sovereign Avenue School, ATLANTIC CITY, ATLANTIC $109,857
JUDITH HAMPSON, Edward T. Bowser Sr. School of Excellence, EAST ORANGE, ESSEX $109,413
IGNATIUS NJOKU, East Orange Campus High School, EAST ORANGE, ESSEX $109,413
DONALD HENDERSON, East Orange Campus High School, EAST ORANGE, ESSEX $108,913
ROBIN LEWIS, Cicely L. Tyson Community Middle/High School, EAST ORANGE, ESSEX $108,913
Linda Garage, Wandell School, SADDLE RIVER BORO, BERGEN $108,859
NANCY HARRIS, Renaissance Middle School at the Rand Building, MONTCLAIR TOWN, ESSEX $108,820
JOSEPH LASPADA, Bernardsville Middle School, SOMERSET HILLS REGIONAL, SOMERSET $108,792
Maria Dineen, Roberge Elementary School, RIVER VALE TWP, BERGEN $108,780
DOROTHY CONNOR, Roosevelt Elementary School, KEARNY TOWN, HUDSON $108,575
https://patch.com/new-jersey/princeton/s/gxnhu/10-000-nj-teachers-who-make-99k-or-more-2019
It’s huge long list, that’s just a snippet above. Good for these teachers. And NJ has highly rated schools.
Again, apologies for being off topic.
We should lobby MSNBC to invite Peter Greene as an independent education expert journalist that can ask questions of the Democratic candidates at their public education forum in Pittsburgh on December 14th, if Greene is available and willing. We need to ask the right questions.
Peter will be part of NPE delegation
Peter Greene and Steven Singer of Pennsylvania will be on the NPE panel. So will Jan Resseger and John Merrow.
What a lineup!
Great news!
MSNBC carries water for the DNC and the DNC would have an aneurism, a heart attack and a stroke if Peter Greene were allowed within shouting distance of the candidates.
Imagine if PISA scores determined what country should have landed on the Moon more than once, and what country should have won World War I and II?
I worry about this country’s future, Lloyd. Seems “stupid” and
“nonsense” = the norm these DAZE.
Just today, a nurse told me that her daughter asked her to teach her cursive. This daughter was never taught cursive and she’s in high school. HUH?
Nurse also told me, “TOO MUCH SCREEN TIME” is not healthy for kids, teens, and adults.
People find out I am a public school teacher and they let loose about the TESTING, the COMMON GORE, and those DEVICES with electronic worksheets galore.
Nurse knows nothing about PISA and doesn’t care. The only ones who care about those test scores are those making $$$$$ off of kids’ and teachers’ backs.
I do not worry about the future. The reason for that is because I probably have between 20 to 25 years left if I am fortunate. Why waste time stressing out about something I have little or no power over?
History teaches us that the history of the world as it is being written is a roller coaster and the good times are like reaching the top before the plunge into a possible abyss.
As we approach the 2020 Election in November, we are on that roller coaster sitting at the top of a climb. What meets us at the bottom will probably be determined by the voters.
But, no matter how the election goes, if Donald Trump somehow managed to hold on to power with support from the GOP controlled Senate, William Barr as the U.S. AG only loyal to Trump, and the 5 conservative justices on the U.S. Supreme Court, then I think there will be a bloody Civil War and it will not be started by Trump’s deplorable supporters. It will be started by the majority fighting to support the U.S. Constitution against Trump, widespread corruption of all kinds, and Trump’s support base.
If the Never Trumpers do not have the will to fight for the U.S. Constitution, then the world will fall into that abyss and there is nothing, I as one person that has no great wealth to buy power through the corruption money bribes, will be in no position to do much at all.
Why stress out over something we have little or no power to change as individuals. It will take a collective of millions to make sure that the roller coaster leaves the abyss and climbs to better times … with Trump and the corruption that stick to him looks filthy, carcinogenic, black coal dust left behind, crushed and buried under an ocean of his powerless supporters.
I was a homeroom teacher for kids with severe emotional difficulties at the time that we (and most all schools in NYC) stopped buying handwriting (print and cursive) books.
The kids were very upset. They lived practicing those skills. Safe. I still had a few books left, so I’d make copies. Eventually I was told to stop doing that because it was biting into the “more important” subject area’s time allotments.
Crazy stuff. When I said it was important for developing fine motor skills I was told that positioning a mouse and typing was just as good. When I mentioned the artistic aspect of the skill I was told that they had art class for that.
Ugh…what a hard road it’s been since the amateurs took the wheel.
The US has no future.
Our billionaire class is making certain of that.
They are using us up like there is no tomorrow — because there won’t be.
When things get so bad for the American public that the billionaires feel threatened, they will simply move to their heavily fortified islands, protected by private security forces with Apache helicopters and live happily ever after.
There is a deterrent to Apache gunships.
“Light to carry and easy to operate, the FIM-92 Stinger is a passive surface-to-air missile that can be shoulder-fired by a single operator (although standard military procedure calls for two operators, team chief and gunner). The FIM-92B missile can also be fired from the M-1097 Avenger and the M6 Linebacker.”
Unlike the TIMSS test, the PISA test actually requires test takers to apply what they have learned to real world situations. Unlike you, I think that ability is very important indeed. In the past, we have depended on what Toynbee would have called the 5% creative minority to lift all boats; anyone paying attention to the way events are playing out recently in our country will realize that those days are long gone.
https://hechingerreport.org/america-care-students-lackluster-performance-global-pisa-tests/
https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/3/23/14988084/white-middle-class-dying-faster-explained-case-deaton
Abby,
Did you read the article by Yong Zhao, which I posted at 9 am?
PISA is not correlated with any real-world outcomes.
When the first international tests were given in math in 1964, we came in dead last.
Over the next 50 years, we surpassed the other 11 nations with higher scores.
Maybe we are measuring the wrong things.
Maybe what matters most can’t be measured by a standardized test.
Pisa is not correlated with any real world outcomes? Ask Yong what the current US debt to China is (1.3 TRILLION). Why is that, you may ask. A very good question. Let us look at the top performing countries on PISA: China,Singapore, US Asians, Macau, Hong Kong, Estonia,US whites, Japan, Korea, Canada, Chinese Taipei. If you do not think that these results will have real world consequences, I don’t know what to say.
Abby, who do people always mention how much money the U.S. owes China without revealing who the U.S. owes the most money to?
74-Percent of America’s National Debt is OWED to the public (U.S. citizens).
Foreign governments and investors only hold 29 percent of the U.S. national debt.
China holds 16 percent of that 29 percent or 4.64 percent of the total.
https://www.thebalance.com/who-owns-the-u-s-national-debt-3306124
Since Donald Trump is an expert on using bankruptcy to escape his business failures, one of Donald Trump’s promises during the 2015 presidential campaign was to bankrupt the U.S. and default on that national debt to get rid of.
Who will lose the most if Trump delivers on that promise – China with 4.64-percent of the national debt or the American public with 74-percent?
China’s gross annual national income in 2017 was 23.24 trillion dollars.
Its gross national product at the end of 2018 was $13,654,419,658.
If China loses its paltry 4.64 percent of the U.S. national debt, how much of an impact will that have on the Chinese economy compared to what will happen to the citizens of the United States?
Lloyd,
Trump’s trade war on China is going to end badly, especially for the poor soybean farmers. You cannot find another market for someone where one doesn’t exist.
The United States is currently 22 TRILLION (with a T) in debt. How do you or Diane figure that we are great and glorious country with that kind of overhang? China has already found new markets for its needs and will not be coming back (unless the price is dramatically reduced).
Why should Diane or I answer your question?
“The United States is currently 22 TRILLION (with a T) in debt. How do you or Diane figure that we are great and glorious country with that kind of overhang?”
I cannot speak for Diane, but I do NOT think the U.S. is a great and glorious country any longer. Starting as far back as Nixion, the Republican Party has done all it can to make sure that the U.S. will never be a great and glorious country again if it ever was great and glorious in the first place.
How to deal with real-world situations cannot be tested or taught. No matter how much you train or learn or how high a test score, there is no way to know what an individual will do in real-world situations. Claiming a test does this, is a load of cow dung.
And even when the “experts” have lots of learning and training to handle real-world situations, the person in charge (billionaires that almost never get their feet wet) with the most money makes all the final decisions from a long-distance often ignoring the “experts” that are actually there where the real-word situation is happening.
Trump trusting his “gut” over all the experts is the perfect example.
“ In the past, we have depended on what Toynbee would have called the 5% creative minority to lift all boats; anyone paying attention to the way events are playing out recently in our country will realize that those days are long gone.”
My personal is that it’s a lot more complicated than that, but going on the concept that test scores are a reliable form of measuring overall achievement and future success in life (both individually and as a nation), what steps do you think should be taken in order to improve the USA’s standing?
I read this in one of your links:
“Educators could see, for example, how Finland has put in place a powerful program to prepare educators; how Singapore has created a career ladder to enable teachers to develop their skills continually; how Estonia has committed to equitable access to high-quality education. And more. Demography is not necessarily destiny.“
We used to have a form of education similar to that of Finland. Much less testing and much more room for play, use of the imagination, and a solid respect for teaching trade skills to those who were less academically inclined. Teachers were valued and respected. It was an attractive profession, despite the relatively low pay scale.
Our career ladder for teachers to develop their craft is still remarkably in place, despite the devaluation of the profession in the name of “Personalized Learning” and other efforts to make the role of the teacher of lesser importance.
And, “Hooray for Estonia!”. Equitable access to higher education in the USA is something we’ve been talking about for a very long time. What could possibly be standing in the way?
Higher education in Finland is tuition free.
There absolutely should be more room for play and experience – in K-2. Unfortunately, in this country we extend it indefinitely, while other countries do not. I am of the opinion that this country needs to start adopting a national curriculum, such that students know certain historical events or scientific conclusions by a certain age.We have confused reading decoding with reading comprehension. One is a skill that can be taught; the other is a long hard slog that that is based on prior knowledge and cannot be directly taught.
Abby says, “I am of the opinion that this country needs to start adopting a national curriculum, such that students know certain historical events or scientific conclusions by a certain age.”
I don’t know about the other states, but California has a state-mandated curriculum for each required subject area that requires teachers to teach important historical events and significant scientific discoveries through the ages, but no matter how great the teacher is, teachers cannot force their students to learn or remember what they are taught.
Teachers teach but they can’t learn or remember for their students. The students have to do that on their own … and ask questions. As a teacher, I can testify that it isn’t easy (actually more like impossible) to force a student to ask a question.
Lloyd,
Either students understand a concept or they don’t. I know it sounds cruel, but we have to make that distinction as teachers, or, quite frankly, there is no plausible reason for our existence.
Abby, I started teaching in 1975 and in the late 70s and early 80s, the district-mandated that we had to quiz/test our students after we taught a new unit to prove they learned it. It was a nightmare and added hours to our workdays and nights.
But, human memory does not work that way. Once a child proves from a quiz or test that they learned what the teacher taught, that does not guarantee that students will remember what was tested for the rest of their lives.
I suggest you read Oliver Sacks to discover how imperfect and fallible human memory is.
https://www.oliversacks.com/
It was Sacks and other researchers and scientists that discovered humans can create memories of events they never experienced and believe they lived them even though they never did. Sacks also proved that we can edit and revise memories of real events. Most of this takes place when we are sleeping. Other studies have found that if we don’t use what we learn, eventually that memory will be cut off and can’t be accessed.
Only a handful of humans have almost perfect recall and memories. Most of us do not.
“The Creative 95%”
The rising thought
Of worker fair
Will sink the yacht
Of billionaire
Well, Some Dam Poet, how is that 95% rising. Please inform us.
It’s a very well written article, and reading Greene in Forbes of all places is inspiring.