I am astonished by the media uproar about Joe Biden and his habit of hugging and patting people (notably, women) on the back or the head.
The #MeToo movement is about women who have been raped or sexually assaulted, not about friendly hugs or pats on the head.
Turning Biden’s friendly gestures into sexual assault is ridiculous and diminishes the seriousness of sexual assault.
When you contrast Biden’s gestures to Trump’s numerous sexual assaults perpetrated on unwilling women and his boasting about grabbing women by their intimate parts, there is a world of difference.
I am not offended by Biden’s actions. I don’t want anyone to pat me on the head or give me an unsolicited huge, and I will tell them so if they try it. And they will stop.
If, on the other hand, a man were to follow Trump’s advice, I would call the police and have the perpetrator arrested, after tackling him.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
Diane Just another example of the public’s inability to understand an essential distinction. CBK
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I think the attacks on Biden are being orchestrated by the extreme right. The extremists in the GOP know that sexual abuse is a hot-button issue among Democrats and many independent voters but not among most registered Republicans who are also hardcore MAGA #1 (Moscow’s Agent Governing America) supporters.
The Trumpists and Trollish GOPhers and the Russians (Putin) want to eliminate all the strongest Democratic contenders before the 2020 election and they will cook up a witches brew of allegations to smear those candidates.
That is why Biden is under attack and any Democrat or independent that joins that assault is an easy to manipulate fools.
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Appears to be politically motivated. Are all complaints from Bernie people? Just asking.
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Not so subtle way to spread the dirt around! Mission accomplished.
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Actually, I think it’s motivated by neoliberal centrists who don’t want Biden taking primary votes from Beto, in opposition to yuge Berniementum. Full disclosure: I am a Berniecrat.
By the way, I agree with everything in the post except the Trump p-grabbing. Trump never grabbed anyone. He said he did (which is horrible enough). It was just juvenile locker room talk. Trump has always been a liar and a braggadocio. Nothing he ever said was true. I want to see his birth certificate. I think he was born in Nazi-land.
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Did you mean Bromentum? — the momentum of what famed economiffed Paul Klugeman referred to as the Bernie Bros.
“The Krugman Class”
“Chattering classes”
“Bernie Bros”
“Unwashed masses”
All of those
Can not ever
Equal me
No-bel clever
As you see
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His failed economic predictions also make Klugeman an economissed, although he was clearly also miffed by Bernie Sanders and his supporters like you.
Following is From
Why Was Paul Krugman so Wrong:
https://www.thenation.com/article/why-was-paul-krugman-so-wrong/
As threatening losses and dislocations accumulated for the US, the celebrated economist was like Voltaire’s Dr. Pangloss, assuring everyone not to worry. Pay no attention to those critics dwelling on the dark side of globalization, he said. Economic theory confirms that free trade is the best of all possible policies in this best of all possible worlds.
for many years Krugman made it his personal duty to act as the watchdog warning the public against non-economists peddling false ideas. In practice, this usually meant skewering progressive writers who criticized globalization from a liberal-labor perspective—offshoring of jobs, stagnating wages, sweatshops and all that.
// End of quote
Krugmans being wrong on globalization is highly relevant because it was the attitude of people like Krugman and those who listened to him that contributed to the dissillusionment of many Americans with Democratic leaders on the economic front. In particular, the loss of jobs die to globalization pushed by people like Krugman played a key role in Trump’s win.
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Of course, Bernie’s campaign was also apparently rife with sexual harrassment and no one did anything about Robert Becker. He even kept using the guy after he had to pay a $30,000 settlement (“I didn’t know”). Not to mention the apparent difference in how men were paid much better than women.
I think we should just agree that all the candidates have so-called skeletons in the closet and if we start going down the road that we did in 2016, when if your candidate didn’t win the primary you lied about the process being “corrupt” and said the election was stolen and worked to undermine the candidate who does win by bringing up things like how his wife bankrupted a college and was given a way too generous salary or “e-mails” or condoning sexual harrassment or “e-mails”, then we are doing it because we want Trump to win. Period.
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SomeDAM Poet, not Pot
Pot has nothing to do with it.
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Brogadaccio: what Bernie Bros use to gain Bromentum
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Brogadocity
He’s simply Brogadocious
A Bernie Sanders hack
His sexist bent, attrocious —
And Bernie’s wife’s a quack
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Wow. Did not expect that. Now I find myself waiting for someone to call me a communist like Republicans always do. Does anyone remember what A.O.C. tweeted when she first entered Congress about the introductory tour being put on by Goldman Sachs? I sure would love it if the next president were not susceptible to the power of money.
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To run for president costs about a billion dollars. Everyone except Bernie has gone to Wall Street to raise the money needed. Unless they themselves are billionaires, like Bloomberg.
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I don’t think Elizabeth Warren is raising money on Wall Street either.
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And, by the way, LCT
You’re a Commie
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White House Business
The business of the President
Is keeping Wall Street plied
Where public servants came and went
The Goldman boys reside
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Aha! Thank you. (The 8:50 am comment didn’t appear on my screen until just now.) Krugman was wrong. A.O.C. is not a Bernie Bro and neither am I. There is no such thing. Yes, the fact that Bernie’s supporters like me are mostly teachers instead of hedge fund managers is an important distinction. Now that I am not so miffed, I can comfortably get on my flight to the U.S.S.R. I am flying proletariat class.
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Too late, LCT, the USSR has disappeared and Russia is no longer Communist.
It is an oligarchy, headed by Putin.
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I don’t think there is a pure Communist country in the world today. The Soviet Union is no more. China has become a hybrid socialist and capitalist state ruled over by the largest political party in the world. Vietnam has followed the same economic model that China launched after Mao died.
I don’t know about Cuba … and if Cuba is still a pure Communist state, what kind of impact will its less than 12-million population have on the world stage with a global population of almost 8 billion people.
It seems to me that capitalism (that generally only benefits less than 1-percent of the population) won that war of ideologies a long time ago and there is no real threat to topple capitalism — even a simple social safety net like Social Security and Medicare.
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There has never existed a Communist country in the classical Marxist sense. We called ourselves socialist countries, and in many senses, we were. But our leaders lived like Kings; they just didn’t wear crowns.
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Well, there goes my trip. I’m not going to Vladimir Putinland. The only oligarchy for me is the Western oligarchy, Bill Gates’es States of America. By the way, someone should tell the Republicans the Cold War is over. I don’t think they know. The U.S. Civil War too, for that matter.
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Very important points, LCT.
The Cold War is over. Stop calling people “Communists” and “Socialists.”
The Civil War is over too. Time to treat all people as equal before the law, with equal rights.
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Commonism lives!
Gates supports the Common Core
Common lore and Common bore
Common floor and common chore
Commonism, nothing more
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Diane, you were not on the receiving end of his “gestures”, so it’s not up to you whether his actions were offensive. The women who were on the receiving end have said they were uncomfortable. Biden needs to fully apologize to those women, but then, Biden has a lousy track record of accountability for his actions. I don’t think anyone is saying that Biden should be hung or anything, just that he should take responsibility.
You are entirely too comfortable dismissing women’s testimony when it’s Democratic men who are on the hot seat.
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Dienne77, 2hat an individual considers “uncomfortable” is based on the bubble of their individual personal space and when someone moves inside that personal space, they will always feel uncomfortable.
“The term ‘personal space’ is relatively new—but that uneasy feeling you get when someone moves too close is ancient. ‘There really is such a thing’ as personal space, says neuroscientist Michael Graziano, author of the new book The Spaces Between Us. ‘The brain computes a buffer zone around the body.’ We have this ‘second skin’ hardwired into our DNA. (Discover how your brain determines what you see.)
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/01/personal-space-between-us-graziano-peripersonal-dyspraxia/
When an individual feels that their personal space has been invaded, it is their responsibility to communicate how they feel.
Invading someone’s personal space for a hug or a touch like a hand on someone’s shoulder or arm does not mean it is the same as rape or sexual molestation.
If Biden was unaware that he was invading someone’s invisible personal space bubble, he is guilty of nothing.
That invisible bubble of personal space is different for everyone and even the culture one grows up in influences the size of that person space bubble.
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The worst invaders of my “personal space” are two women who are friends. They get up real close when we speak, and I keep backing away. I just can’t keep them out of my personal space. It is very annoying
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When I came back from Vietnam, I had no idea that my personal space bubble had expanded by several feet. I have always been sort of shy of people who get too close physically and like to hug. Depending on who it is, I put up with it or back off.
And I grew up with a mother who was a hugger and demanded a kiss on the cheek before I left home to go to school or the library or just to go out and play. I complied but never felt comfortable even with my mother.
But when I got back from Vietnam, that personal space distance had expanded and in town I watch other people walking and always move away from them when it looks like they are getting too close to what I consider my defensive zone.
I’ve had conversations with other combat vets that live with PTSD and most if not all of them have the same personal space bubble with an emphasis on “fight over flight”. In fact, the vets I know that have been diagnosed with 100-percent PTSD can be triggered into a killing machine just by someone invading that space. When the rating is this high, the vet is considered unemployable and they are not allowed to own firearms. If they break the rules, they can lose their VA medical coverage or end up in a VA hospital, drugged and kept in a padded room.
One vet, a friend twenty years younger than I am, who served in Special Forces in the Middle East that has a 100% PTSD rating had a 130-pound service dog trained to get between him and anyone invading his bubble to protect that other person. When this service dog died, he fell apart and has withdrawn somewhat from even his veteran friends, because of his fear that he might seriously flip out and damage or kill someone that invades his space — especially strangers that don’t know any better.
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Dienne,
Do you think Trump should publicly apologize to the many women he has grabbed by the p—y? Or the many women he has tongue kissed without their permission? Or to his wife for having at least two affairs while she was at home with her newborn?
My guess is that I know more about sexual assault than you do, and I don’t need to go into details now. I will eventually write a memoir and tell all.
You should practice not being so smug. Take it down a notch.
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So far, I haven’t seen any sign of red flag on Joe Biden’s case, compared to Al Franken, Anthony Weiner, Roy Moore, Brett Kavanaugh or anyone people name it. Sounds pretty much similar to the late George H.W. Bush, to me.
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Agree, Diane. I’m sure people who do do this will stop if even told one time. That having been said, as with anyone who invades personal space (& many do–men and women), it’s just a little creepy.
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I have issues with “my personal space,” so I avoid crowds…too many bodies pressed together.
retiredbutmissthekids, I do get your, “…it’s just a little creepy.”
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Nowadays it really is up to the person whose space is being invaded to say something. The “rules” have really gotten muddy. The only hugging that went on when I was a kid tended to be between family members although my Colombian uncle used to find it amusing that he could back Americans around the room by standing a little too close. The cultural norms were noticeably different to him.
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Space Invaders
Invasion of space
Depends on the case
There’s time and there’s place
But not in the race
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Thank you Diane. Fervently agree!
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Lots to unpack here. Trump’s behavior, utterly abhorrent as it is, is not a factor in assessing Biden’s. The #MeToo movement was never just about sexual assault but also about sexual harassment. Impact matters regardless of intent. Biden’s reaction initially centered himself and focused almost entirely on his intent, and only quite recently began to look more honestly on how it may have felt to people and whether he may have placed him in a genuinely uncomfortable situation. If the people in your life all stop unwanted behaviors immediately upon request, I am happy for you. Not everyone else can say the same. That said, I would agree the media feeding frenzy has been over the top. And I appreciate the opportunity for discussion in response to your post.
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I have not heard of any actions by Biden meant to humiliate or demean women. I have experienced sexual assault.
Context matters. A hug is not sexual assault or sexual harassment.
I have never had a problem when I tell men to back off.
Of course, now that I am an older woman with gray hair, this is not an issue for me.
But I had very many years as a young woman when it was.
And I could tell the difference between an affectionate innocent gesture and sexual harassment.
I agree with reader Lloyd Lofthouse who said that he believes much of this brouhaha is being stirred up by Trump’s friends to hurt Biden.
Let us put things into perspective.
Not only the Access Hollywood tape, in which Trump boasted of sexually assaulting women, but the fact that he has just nominated Herman Cain, the pizza man, to the Federal Reserve Board, who has been credibly accused by multiple women of sexual assault. Cain is also totally unqualified for the post. That matters a lot more than whether Biden patted a woman on the back or the head. No one has ever accused him of sexual assault, to my knowledge.
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Well, if Betsy DeVos can be Education Secretary, and Ben Carson can be HUD Secretary, I don’t see why Herman Cain can’t be on the Fed Board. This administration if full of people who aren’t qualified for their jobs.
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Thank you for responding. Of course I respect your opinion, I appreciate your sharing your personal experience, and I am sorry to hear of a painful event from your past.
I happen to have a friend who received an unwanted shoulder hug from Biden. As she reported it, she found it uncomfortable enough that she cringed. No, it wasn’t assault and yes, she believed he didn’t mean anything by it. And yet, it was unwanted and uninvited, it made her uncomfortable, and thus it was harassment.
And nearly every women I know has experienced sexual harassment of one kind or another. For that matter, so have I, both well-intentioned and not.
I have long liked and admired Biden. I really want for him to see that how people experience uninvited touching is not always how he intends it. But I don’t think he is there yet – just today, he reportedly joked about consent on several occasions.
That said, barring any unexpected future revelations, if given a choice between him and Trump, I would vote for Biden so fast it would make your head spin. 🙂
With all my best,
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LOL, if given a choice between MAGA (Moscow’s Agent Governing America) and Biden (Mr. Hug-a-Lot), I’d vote faster than a head could spin.
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If she told him to stop and he didn’t back off, it would be harassment. It is pretty obvious that he was unaware that his overly familiar behavior was uncomfortable, Now that the issue has been presented to him in clear terms, he has said his behavior will change. If it doesn’t, then we can spend ad infinitum vilifying him, but there are plenty of more substantive issues to discuss.
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Personal space is defined culturally, and the definition may change over time. It may just be that there is a mismatch between Biden’s act and the perception of the receivers, who, in both cases, were a different generation. I have worked with people from all over the world. Asians and Northern Europeans tend to be less “touchy feely” than Latin cultures, for example. Sometimes gender defines what is suitable. Each culture defines what is generally acceptable, and this will vary according to the culture and age and /or gender of individuals in the culture.
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Invading your personal space is not the same as sexual assault and rape. It seems so strange that this has become an issue suddenly. I’ve been on the receiving end of invasion of my personal space of touching by both men and women. I didn’t like it but it doesn’t amount to a reason to disqualify someone from running for election.
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Biden’s accuser Lucy Flores (her website is lucyflores.com) was a Nevada assemblywoman and an endorser of Bernie Sanders. There is no way to tell if the latter action influenced her decision to promote the Biden story. In any event, Joe Biden has a tendency to put his foot in his mouth enough that he may be his own worst enemy.
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I don’t despise Biden at all. He made a mistake and was called on it.
There is a gradient here from less offensive to absolute horror in terms of actions re: Biden and that Dump. It’s a matter of degree, not kind. People get confused about this, sometimes. You know … murder in the ????? degree vs. manslaughter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_(United_States_law)
Women are finally saying things “unheard” of before, because of societal norms and “women’s place” codified even by law. Women still have a long way to go, too. But there is change, thank goodness. https://www.usnews.com/news/the-report/articles/2017-01-20/timeline-the-womens-rights-movement-in-the-us
That said, I agree with you, David. You wrote: “Joe Biden has a tendency to put his foot in his mouth enough that he may be his own worst enemy.” True ‘dat.’
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Since when is hugging someone “a mistake”?
HEADLINE SAYS: ‘He Hugs Everybody’: Women Divided Over Joe Biden
“MANHATTAN (AP) — It’s simply a “human touch.” He’s a “warm, affectionate person.” “He hugs everybody.” In the days since allegations surfaced of Joe Biden’s uninvited touching, several women in politics and beyond have been coming to his defense, vouching for his character and saying it was merely his old-fashioned style — nothing intentional, and certainly nothing sexual.”
https://www.courthousenews.com/%EF%BB%BFhe-hugs-everybody-women-divided-over-joe-biden/
Who is the responsible person here – the hugger or the person that doesn’t want to be hugged?
If you don’t want someone like Biden the Hugger to hug you, say so and as you are saying it, step away from him and create more distance for your personal space bubble.
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I only met Biden once, many years ago on the periphery of a reception for bankers. He asked me who I worked for, made a joking comment about Louisiana politics, whereupon I told him the old joke about the motto of the state’s politics, where “we don’t tolerate corruption, we demand it.” As he laughed, he put his hand around my shoulder and poked me saying, “that was a good one, but don’t say that around my friend, —!” One can disagree with his policy views and politics, as I have many times, but he is the prototypical “people person.” He enjoys being with people and cares about their views, experiences, and dignity. He is no predator.
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Odd position: a foot in his mouth while hugging a new found friend.
I am no defender of Biden. I have not chosen a candidate. I want someone who will fight for honesty, good government, the common good, an honorable justice system, a strong position on the environment and civil rights, and the importance of public education. I don’t know who that is yet. However, I will vote for the Democratic candidate against Trump, no matter who it is.
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No disagreement with your last sentence, Diane.
The Flores incident had no connection to his past foot-in-mouth incidents. I think Biden is basically a nice guy and I agree with many, but not all, of his positions. There is clearly no comparing his problems with women to Trump’s. Whether or not he is the best candidate to defeat Trump is another question.
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I don’t know who the best candidate is. I have some I don’t like. But I’m not favoring anyone until I hear more and the field narrows.
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Thank you for saying this.
I could not presume to say that Biden has not acted “creepy,” but I will agree that the inability of the “victims” of his contact to make their needs known directly to him is a serious problem, leaving our entire puritan culture impoverished. The uproar has left this writer (in his late 60’s) furious at all the remembered ways I was told I could not be human:
….from a union rep warning a roomful of new teachers…myself included…to NEVER under ANY circumstances touch a child. I’m glad I had the guts to say then to her face that the day I followed her rule would be the day I had no business working with children.
…to the day 15 years ago that my first grade daughter’s school told a family court that it was “inappropriate” that I would put her on my shoulders when picking her up from school…suggesting I was thereby demonstrating I was probably sexually abusive. Others claimed the fact I hugged her so much proved it. I had to stop touching her altogether so I would not lose her…and I feel the pain of that loss of my daughter to this day.
God help us.
—Alan Morse, Phillips ME
>
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Those people has a real problem. I’m sorry you had to go through that experience.
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Thanks.
(I spared you 98% of the gory details. Lesson: If you are trying to be an involved dad or connected male teacher, stay away from Maine.)
—apm
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cx: Those people have… My own mistakes drive me crazy. I am letting them get in the way of recognizing the very real pain you must have gone through. I hope you have had people supporting you.
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There is an element missing from all this: Biden’s actions seem to mirror those of Al Franken; yet Kirsten Gilibrand gives Biden a pass, while Franken was defenestrated. In doing so, Gilibrand reveals herself as the empty opportunist that she is, exploiting this issue to oust a budding foe to Hillary Clinton and also someone who stood to challenge Wall Street’s hegemony. Joe Biden? Why, he’s one of our finest statesmen. Let’s just look at his support for the Iraq war (as chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee!) a bankruptcy law that won’t allow student loans to be discharged… I won’t go on. It’s all out there to see. And in all of this discussion of personal space and blaming it on Bernie, nobody is talking about the utter rotteness of a system in which Biden has bragged about forcing the ouster of a Ukrainian prosecutor who happened to be a threat to the business interests of his son, Hunter. Perhaps the double standards here will be an eye opener for more than a few people who have believed the MeToo is to be taken purely at face value.
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Thank you, CW.
Biden’s being a creep around women is the least of his political problems, and Trump will destroy him if he’s the Democratic nominee.
Let’s see how (creepy) Uncle Joe does when other Democratic candidates (to say nothing of Trump) start justifiably going after him for his responsibility for the creditor-friendly Bankruptcy Law, and student loan debt not being dischargeable in bankruptcy, along with his interventions to help his son’s insider business dealings in the kleptocratic state of Ukraine.
As the Senator from Delaware, he was the Senator from Banking, and he helped make that state a destination for dirty money and tax evasion on par with Panama, Bermuda, Monaco, and every other stereotypical money-laundering destination.
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“Trump will destroy him if he’s the Democratic nominee.”
This is true. Just like he destroyed Elizabeth Warren and HRC and will destroy ANY candidate who is nominated. Any of them. Including Bernie or AOC (not that she’s running). If you are a threat to Trump, you are his target.
The difference is whether people whose candidate didn’t win help Trump by repeating the nasty and dishonest characterization of the Democrat that he is pushing. I won’t help Trump if he starts on Bernie and I certainly hope those who support Bernie won’t repeat their mistake of 2016 and help Trump if the candidate for the Democrats is someone they didn’t support in the primary.
Including Biden. I don’t like Biden and won’t support him in the primary. But I won’t help Trump push a false narrative about him and I will criticize anyone who pushes the out and out lie that Trump is positively no worse than Biden would be.
I have yet to hear anyone who pushed that narrative in 2016 apologize for being wrong. Sadly, I suspect they still believe they were not wrong, which is what terrifies me because they will no doubt be insisting that anyone who wins the primary who isn’t their first choice is no better than Trump.
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I must disagree. Biden reminds me of teachers, bosses, colleagues over the year who seemed for feel that I was no more than a cute puppy. Hug me as I walk down the school hallway, kiss my neck as I worked at a cash register, arm around the waist as we waited for an IEP meeting. It’s NOT OK. It might not be sexual assault, but she was sending the message, “Your body is there for the grabbing.” We used to warn each other about this sweet, funny, avuncular guys. “He’s handsy”, we’d say. “Be alert and move fast.”
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Thank you, Diane. As a 65-year old woman who spent her career in academia, I agree with you 100%. Let’s not trivialize the #metoo accusations by including Joe Biden’s type of actions among them.
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I read that a standing joke in the Anita Hill house is that when the doorbell rings…..”That must be Joe Biden, finally arriving to apologize. This personal space stuff seems like a handy excuse to not talk about a lot of Joe Biden’s history….which has some spectacularly good moments, which seem to get mentioned…..and others which are excused because he no longer feels that way. He seems to be getting a lot of free passes, as Kamala Harris is getting clobbered for her work——the media seems to love one a lot more than the other, without regard to issues. I would think the people here would welcome someone who is threatening to make public education a much more important issue than it has been in the past. It takes about five words to dismiss Kamala.
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Biden did himself no favors today:
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See, that’s just it. I haven’t found a candidate for whom to vote yet, but Biden’s downplaying of his actions is creepy all over.
I would vote for him over Trump, of course, but really, Biden’s ship sailed a long time ago. Not only is he a bit creepy, but he’s a lot older than I’m comfortable with, and his tendency to stick his foot in his mouth is also problematic.
Baby Boomers–how about Gen X getting a candidate, just for once, before the Millennials take over?
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I don’t think it matters who runs from what generation against Trump. The fake Fox media machine and people like Limbaugh, Alex Jones, and Hannity are going to go all out inventing fake news to crucify whoever ends up running against them.
They will search for one grain of sand and if they find it, they will turn it into Mt. Everest and if they can’t find that one grain of sand, they’ll just make stuff up.
However, I would like someone between 40 and 60 running against Trump, and maybe by 2020, his dementia will be so bad that he’ll be dressed like a baby in diapers, drooling and sucking on a pacifier during the presidential debates. His base will still vote for him.
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An explanation of why he hates wind power and claims that wind turbines cause cancer. His Scottish golf course was adversely affected by wind turbines. It’s always about him and his money.
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A slight correction. It’s always about him and someone else’s money that he keeps and calls his own.
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Lloyd said: “I don’t think it matters who runs from what generation against Trump. The fake Fox media machine and people like Limbaugh, Alex Jones, and Hannity are going to go all out inventing fake news to crucify whoever ends up running against them.
They will search for one grain of sand and if they find it, they will turn it into Mt. Everest and if they can’t find that one grain of sand, they’ll just make stuff up.”
THIS THIS THIS. But it only works when the disaffected voters whose candidate did NOT win the primary election help the far right by repeating those lies and insisting that the ugly and dishonest characterization that Fox News presented is true.
In my opinion, the reason Obama was able to sustain that attack in 2008 is because the HRC supporters did not jump in to legitimatize it. Once it is no longer just Alex Jones but “even many progressives agree that [insert ugly right wing propaganda attacks against Democrat here] is absolutely true and the candidate is no better than Trump”, then Trump wins.
Let’s see if self-described progressives help push the false narratives of Fox News and Alex Jones again in 2020. If their chosen candidate doesn’t win and they decide to help push the false narrative the right wing has devised to destroy the Democrat, then Trump could win again. It is completely up to whether the supporters of the losing candidate decide to help the far right push their lies or not. When Obama won the primary, they did not.
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Digital computers and biological computers (human brains) are all suspectable to being hacked, infected with viruses, spied on by cookies and having trojan horses planted there.
But the programmers are different. For Digital computers, people sit in front of powerful computers and hack into other digital computer system and plant their virus code, cookies, and trojan horses to influence those other systems.
But to program biological computers, Fox news hires people like Hannity to do the hacking and programming by feeding the already established confirmation bias of individuals and influencing that bias to become worse.
It’s all high tech now. Those corporate cookies planted on our smart phones, tablets, laptops, and desktops spy on everyone 24/7 and feed that info into computer programs to identify the individuals easiest to fool and then people like Hannity target that audience to sway their already biased thinking further.
When humans log on, individuals are fed recommended stories that fit their already established confirmation bias to be swayed even further to the right or left.
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Don’t discount social media either. Fox News alone cannot do it, but if we all spread whatever disinformation is passed around on the web without thoroughly investigating, we can decrease the chances of some viable candidates. The candidates are often between a rock and a hard place. If they respond to certain accusations, then they might be giving the accusations legitimacy. If they don’t respond, they are accused of not taking an issue seriously.
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There is no way to take Biden hair smelling practices seriously. It’s ridiculous to do them so indiscriminately, and it may be embarrassing for his family, but nothing more. By the way, Don Juans prescribe the practice as something appealing to most women. In any case, the same can be done clumsily and with class, and we can even make a movie on the subject
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I like open, huggy people, and I would welcome a hug from Joe Biden.
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When I met AOC at a private session in March (before the public event), we spontaneously hugged. I don’t know why. We just did. I was showing my admiration for her. Was I harassing her or was she harassing me? What will the rightwing trolls say?
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Only liberal, socialist women hug each other so improperly, Diane.
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Haha, I just dropped my partner off at her Roman Catholic Church, where she was preparing to serve the refreshments after Mass (she baked two cakes, others brought their own cakes and cookies). I saw the priest, whom I have known and admired for many years, and we greeted each other warmly. We exchanged a hug and a kiss on each cheek. We both laughed, and I told him he could no longer run for president.
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Diane and Mate W.: All kidding aside, it’s complex.
First, while different unspoken protocols govern male and female relations; so second, those differences differ again when expressed in (a) familial; (b) other-social situations (like at parties/various friendships/church); and then (c) our quite different professional/work situations where, at least, now there are some written and legal guidelines for such matters which, no matter what, cannot cover the whole thing and can be like killing flies with sledgehammers.
Then third, there are the overriding (different again) political-cultural protocols that we often-unconsciously apply to the whole kabootle. <–Now, put this in the context of someone of a “certain age” who grew up in a set of complex protocols that have themselves developed and changed over time according to how historical change works, and you have, voila: Joe Biden.
CBK, who loves to be hugged by her grandchildren, both male and female, and sometimes by her friends, always at a funeral, but who is creeped-out being mishandled by her adult students or many others.
What could go wrong?
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“All kidding aside, it’s complex.”
I think it is artificially made complex. And why should Biden’s hair smelling practices have anything to do with his competence to be president?
In real life, people often are clumsy in showing affection, but it’s not a subject that should make political news.
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Mate says: “I think it is artificially made complex. And why should Biden’s hair smelling practices have anything to do with his competence to be president? In real life, people often are clumsy in showing affection, but it’s not a subject that should make political news.”
Mate My point exactly. Clumsy in one situation, is welcomed in another. But it’s not “artificially made complex.” It’s just not on-point. Let’s get on with what’s important. CBK
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Diane, the kiss of death and presidential bids.
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Careful. Someone will find your joking about such a serious issue inappropriate.
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That is sick and unnatural, Montana Teacher. 🙂
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speduktr, I’m a lot more concerned about what foreign troll factories will be perpetrating on social media during the upcoming campaign, they have much more power to spread faux narratives than loose-lipped individuals. Haven’t seen any action on that front in congress.
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Bethree5, I am, too, but the Russians rely on us to continue spreading the message, and now that people have seen how effective this kind of disinformation can be, there will be or are “in-house” voices keen on spreading their own twisted messages who do not need the Russian voice to spur them on. Dirty campaigns full of half truths or outright falsehoods didn’t start with the Russians.
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I agree. Biden trivialized the situation by making jokes. Sadly. Biden is prone to gaffes.
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The creature Trump makes all Dem candidates look good, so Trump is a low standard which elevates Dems. It’s too easy to look good compared to the vulgar egomaniac moron in the White House. We are debating our own standards.
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Sen. John Kennedy: Biden’s History of ‘Hair-Smelling’ Is ‘Unnatural, Abnormal and Weird’
https://insider.foxnews.com/2019/04/04/joe-biden-inappropriate-touching-claims-john-kennedy-responds
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I agree he isn’t nearly as bad as Trump but clearly some of these women think it’s inappropriate. I have more concerns with the right wing supporter that accused Al Franken after I saw her flirting with just about everyone during that Iraq tour clearly treating it like a joke, even though I thought Franken abandoned his voters when he caved to Hillary while Bernie still had a chance in 2016.
But the far bigger problem with Biden is that he bends over backwards for Wall Street. This includes support of Obama’s positions on Charter Schools, which I would expect most of you to oppose. Apparently his brother is using his family name to help privatize education.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/brother-of-vp-biden-promotes-charters-invoking-family-name/2011/11/22/gIQAnhLFfO_blog.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.2c33a555cd04
I don’t want to see them go down for the wrong reason, but I’m not sorry if his campaign falls apart before it begins. Once people are reminded of all his gaffes and his record it would have collapsed anyway better it happens before they rig primaries for him and reelect Trump!
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Joe Biden, is a fine and decent man. I read his autobiography “Promises to Keep”, and I wept. He did a fine job as a senator and VP. He is a dedicated public servant.
I could never vote for him, I disagree with him on almost every issue.
His time has passed. He needs to retire, and go back to Delaware and fish.
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Yes. Given all the media talk, why not just ask the women: how did you respond? As you said, Diane, except for violence, women are capable of rejecting an unwanted approach.
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If someone does something, like hold your hand, or touch your shoulder or hug you, that makes you “feel” uncomfortable … and you do nothing … and say nothing … how is the allegedly guilty person guilty of doing something wrong to the person feeling offended.
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Yeah, most of my math teachers made me feel uncomfortable. The same with my Russian language teachers.
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But you had an excuse not to let them know how you felt because they controlled the grade you earned for the classes they taught. Was that Russian language teacher’s last name Putin or Stalin?
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I think some were scarier than those, Lloyd. At least at the time, they appeared to be scary.
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From what I was told by others (students and teachers), I could look scary when I slipped into my Marine Corps drill instructor face with the dead eye glare of a trained killer.
To be clear, I was never a Marine drill instructor but after spending a full summer being brutalized by them in boot camp, that persona is never far away.
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My kids had an ex-marine math teacher. He was sweet, the kids liked him, except I wasn’t crazy him having the Marine seal and such exhibited all over his class.
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That guy sounded too gung ho. As a teacher, I seldom talked about my Marine Corps life and did not advertise it in any of my classrooms, but over the years, the kids heard through the local grapevine about my past (I suspect some of the conservative war mongering history teachers that never served talked about me when they got to the Vietnam War or any war), and every year one or more of my students wanted to know what it was like. There was at least one other Vietnam vet at the high school where I taught but he had no desire to dredge up that past any more than I did.
Bob, in the Navy, was on a swift boat in Vietnam. His job was to keep the twin engines running and he said squatting between those two engines was the safest place on the boat because the VC sniper rounds popped through the aluminum hull and out the other side without any problems.
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Squatting for how long?
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As long as it took until the swift boat moved out of range of the VC snipers pouring rounds through the thin aluminum hull. Moving fast made it harder for the snipers to hit them. Squatting between the twin engines meant he was safer than the rest of the swift boat crew when the rounds arrived. He probably had a stool to sit on.
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OK, so not hours. Do you guys have a club of sort where you can talk about these things? If I had something like this in my memories, I’d want to talk it over with others from time to time.
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Not a club.
It is called the VA and/or Vet Centers that are funded through the VA. The VA health system also has mental health centers and the Vet Centers that were started by Vietnam Veterans back in the 1980s to help combat vets returning home to learn how to manage their PTSD eventually ended up being part of the VA ( at least that’s what I understand).
I belong to two PTSD support groups. I belong to one through the VA medical system and another one at a Vet Center. Vet Centers are laser-focused and offer a variety of individual and group methods/support to combat vets so they manage the PTSD that came home with them from war instead of the PTSD managing them.
The Vet Center program has a page on the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs site.
https://www.vetcenter.va.gov/
The VA and the Vet Center program probably offers some of the best counseling services in the world for victims of PTSD. The Vet Centers also offer group support for the significant others (children, wives, husbands, girlfriends, and boyfriends) of combat vets with PTSD.
For instance, I read a piece about China sending some of their mental health experts to the VA health centers in the U.S. to learn how to work with Chinese troops traumatized by PTSD caused by the never-ending conflict in Xinjiang Province in northwest China (across the border from Afghanistan where US troops are fighting similar Islaimc fundamentalists who might be allied with those in China) with fundamentalist Islamic Uyghur separatists.
China has been fighting with this Islamic fundamentalist since the 1960s when Russia armed and organized this separatist movement to cause trouble in China.
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Do these VA centers work well?
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Some of the vets in my Vet Center group have been showing up to PTSD support meetings almost every week for years and in some cases decades.
I know my experience is limited as one person, but the Vet Center I go to focuses only on helping vets manage their PTSD through a variety of groups and/or methods, and it is lot more organized and stable than the VA’s own mental health care program that seems to take second place to the physical health care.
Two of the members of my Vet Center group belonged to Special Forces and their PTSD is rated at 100 percent. From what I’ve heard about their lives before they started going to the Vet Center, what they have now with the support is much better than before when their lives were mired in darkness, drugs, alcohol, depression, and anger along with thoughts of suicide on a daily struggle.
In my Vet Center group, we have vets who fought in Iraq, Somalia, Afghanistan, and Vietnam ranging in age from thirty or forty into the seventies like me.
Did you know that about 30-combat vets that suffer from PTSD take their own lives every day and combat vets with PTSD make up a large portion of the homeless population in this country?
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Yeah, actually, I do know that. I also know of people who get millions in grants doing research on vets’ suicide but the numbers increase.
This is why I asked about the center’s success.
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I can only relate to the success I’ve seen from those in my support groups that keep coming back. Others come and go. What happens to them after they stay away, I have no way of knowing.
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Just for thr record, Lloyd, i think you are one remarkable guy. Thanks for being in this world with the rest of us.
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Thank you.
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And if he didn’t have a stool, maybe he was sitting on a bucket. Not on the flat bottom of the bucket. That way if he let loose and went #1 or #2 he had someplace to put all that stuff without making a mess he had to clean up.
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