They come to America as immigrants seeking freedom. They are arrested, separated from their children, and imprisoned.
Their children are sent to distant facilities. Some will never see their parents again.
ICE has ordered 60 full-body restraints for the immigrants who resist.
Is this America?
Diane Ravitch's blog 
Your comment is incorrect. These people come to the US border, as illegal aliens, attempting to enter a country without permission, and without proper documents as required under international law. They have failed to request and obtain proper entry visas, and are illegally and criminally jumping over an international border.
When you take the law into your own hands, you have to deal with it the way it is.
If jail and body restraints and handcuffs, and family separation, are not to the liking of these illegal criminal aliens, then they should consider these measures, prior to illegally and criminally jumping an international border without permission.
If people wish to enter the United States, they must go to the visa section at any US embassy or consulate, and complete the paperwork, and wait for the proper visa. Only, then should they book their travel plans.
A house without walls is not a house. A nation without borders is not a nation.
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You are a cruel and heartless man. Even people suspected of illegal actions should be treated with dignity.
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Even though non-citizens do not have civil rights under US law, I agree that even these criminals are entitled to due process.
The US government should widely publicize the measures that will be taken against individuals illegally attempting to cross the US border.
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Whether or not a person on U.S. soil is a citizen, they are entitled to be treated like human beings, not dogs.
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No one is suggesting that human beings be treated like dogs. ALL persons should be treated properly, and with due process. Persons accused of illegally entering the US, are entitled to the presumption of innocence. They are certainly entitled to a fair hearing, and the chance to prove that they hold a visa to enter the USA. If they are a legitimate political asylee, and can prove up this claim, to the satisfaction of US authorities, then they are entitled to temporary admission, pending the outcome of a hearing.
The US is not a barbarian nation, and no one is suggesting a “Berlin Wall in reverse”. We have no machine-gun towers, with guards trying to shoot anyone who wants in.
Both our nation, and the basic human rights of border-jumpers can be protected!
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Charles: How do you expect people raised in the hire world to have a complete understanding of our laws? Why did we welcome every person fleeing Russian occupation, but failed to welcome every Jew fleeing Germany a generation before? Why is an immigrant more important to us if they are coming to our shores with a skill? How do these questions fit into a general scheme that delineates the definitions of human rights that transcend governments? How does an over-populated world decide how it is going to deal with the massive population movement following cataclysmic events like the Second World War or the Arab Spring?
Do you have cogent answers to those questions? If not, it is incumbent upon you to be have with the greatest of indulgence to those whose lives have been torn apart in this broken world. Walls have failed for centuries. Let us seek another way. Meanwhile, let us treat one another using the golden rule approach. How would I like to be treated if I were destitute?
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Thanks, Roy.
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I have lived in foreign countries for over 16 years. I do not expect all foreigners in all nations, to have an understanding of US immigration laws. But- I expect any person wishing to visit or immigrate to our nation, to do so properly and legally. That is why we have embassies and consulates in foreign lands, where the procedures to apply for visas are clearly spelled out in the language of the host nation, and they are available to any person who wishes to learn. (I used to work for the US State Department).
The US did not welcome “every” person fleeing Russian “occupation”. Political asylees, had to make application, and have a hearing, etc. Prior to WW2, the USA did not welcome every Jewish person leaving Nazi-occupied Europe. (There was a great deal of anti-Semitism, and we did accept Albert Einstein, and many other Jewish refugees).
There are many categories for immigrant visas (My two wives are/were foreign-born). Certain skills, like medical and actors, and certain high-tech skills get priority treatment, because these skills are in shortage in the USA. Foreign born spouses and minor children are admitted automatically.
As far as human rights, there is no “right” to immigrate to the USA. All nations have rules and procedures for immigration. Japan and Switzerland have draconian procedures and admit very few immigrants for permanent residence.
The “over-populated” world must come up with its own solutions for dealing with their problems. That is why there are organizations like the United Nations commission for refugees. The USA can help and advise, of course.
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I don’t understand why we aren’t handling asylum-seekers the way Europe has been handling the wave of refugees from war-torn Middle East & Northern African countries (mainly Syria, Afghanistan, Libya, Somalia). From what I see on TV, they’re housed at borders in vast refugee tent-camps & supplied by bordering countries, UN, & intl charities w/food, water & some security forces. I understand some live there for yrs at a time while working on visas, or in some cases returning if their home region has become safer. No need for separating children, jail cells, crazy restraints et al.
Our regular laws & procedures were OK [stretching it] for the level of immigration from Mexico/ Central America in recent yrs, which has been shrinking since 2000 [2017 lowest level since 1972). But despite overall low nos., USCIS reports that the number of asylum-seekers from Northern Triangle has been rising 25%/yr since 2015. These people are fleeing brutal 24/7 violence – deriving directly from our ’80’s-’90’s foreign policy in Central America. Unlike EU which adapted immigration policy to accommodate the influx of people fleeing war, Trump admin [& Charles, above] subjects them to the same patchwork of laws/ regs designed for the relative trickle of Mexicans seeking work visas.
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These immigrants who have been treated inhumanely in their own countries are not criminals. They come here asking for amnesty.
Trump has turned this country into a mess that I am ashamed of. If you like severity so much, go to Russia. I’m sure there is no humanity in that country. You’d feel much more at home.
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You are mistaken. By definition, every person who enters this nation, illegally is a criminal. These people, regardless of their reasons, have broken our immigration laws, and they are in this nation illegally. They are criminals.
What do you mean by “amnesty”? Amnesty is from word for “forget”. Are they asking for the USA to forget that fact that they willingly and knowingly broke our laws, to get here?
If the USA is such a “mess”, then why are there 10-12 million (no one knows!) illegal aliens already in the USA?
I do not like severity. I married a Russian (she is now a US citizen, legally). I have been to Russia for a visit, and I enjoyed the history and culture, I could never live there. I do not speak Russian well enough to work, and I am an American by birth, and thus entitled to live my life here.
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Charles Carolmalasia was talking about those who ask for amnesty. It’s not illegal to ask for amnesty. WE have a system set up for that. CBK
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Catherine : You are correct. Thank you.
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Trying an edit to get out of moderation:
I don’t understand why we aren’t handling asylum-seekers the way Europe has been handling the wave of refugees from war-torn Middle East & Northern African countries (mainly Syria, Afghanistan, Libya, Somalia). From what I see on TV, they’re housed at borders in vast refugee tent-camps & supplied by bordering countries, UN, & intl charities w/food, water & some security forces. I understand some live there for yrs at a time while working on visas, or in some cases returning if their home region has become safer. No need for separating children, jail cells, crazy restraints et al.
Our regular laws & procedures were OK [stretching it] for the level of immigration from Mexico/ Central America in recent yrs, which has been shrinking since 2000 [2017 lowest level since 1972). But despite overall low nos., USCIS reports that the number of asylum-seekers from Northern Triangle has been rising 25%/yr since 2015. These people are fleeing brutal 24/7 violence – deriving directly from our ’80’s-’90’s foreign policy in Central America. Unlike EU which adapted immigration policy to accommodate the influx of people fleeing war, Trump admin subjects them to the same patchwork of laws/ regs designed for the relative trickle of Mexicans seeking work visas.
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Oops sorry for that long dupl. I need to be more patient.
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Diane I wonder whose company sold THOSE to us. CBK
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The current administration has little regard for the lives of brown people fleeing Central America. The heinous family separation, the gross mismanagement of the process and treading on civil rights attest to this. #45 and Sessions will use any means necessary to strike fear and intimidation in the hearts and minds of these asylum seekers, many of whom are children. This is a new low for a nation of immigrants.
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Can laws without Mercy bring true and effective justice? Mercy:a : compassion or forbearance (see forbearance 1) shown especially to an offender or to one subject to one’s power; also : lenient or compassionate treatment
These are truly defining times in American history.
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Utter contempt!
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Straitjacket in use can be adjusted for children.
The WRAPTM is patented manufactured only in the United States by Safe Restraints, Inc. The WRAPTM is so durable that units are still in use that were produced in 1996. The WRAPTM has been found to be safe and 100% effective by the Institute for the Prevention of In-Custody Deaths. Read the study at http://www.ipicd.com.
Its use has been mandated in some states for juvenile institutions.
More at https://www.gsaadvantage.gov/ref_text/GS07F089DA/0TAHD9.3N4U3J_GS-07F-089DA_GS07F089DASAFERESTRAINTS.PDF
My stomach turns with the ugly logic from Charles. He refuses to acknowledge any human rights that cannot be reduced to legalisms and also framed to induce fear of “those people.”
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Yesterday I was at Wal-mart getting a tire fixed. One of my former students was fixing the tire, so I was talking a bit while two of the managers discussed the absence of another employee. “She had to go home,” one guy was saying, “her uncle got picked up by ICE.” He said it so matter of fact, and I could not help but wonder if this was what it was like when Jews disappeared in Nazi Germany. I do not know what the solution is to the security of our border. I do not imagine that I can gauge the complex effect of immigration on the judicial system, or on any other aspect of life. What I do know is that people who are generally good folks do not need to be rounded up and arrested, for that tends to undermine the authority of the nation, rendering it morally bankrupt.
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These deportations defend the “letter of the law,” but they are really not necessary. Immigrants are a net plus to our economy. I predict these deportations will cost our country a big net minus in terms of productivity. We will likely also find that many of the children of these deportees will remain here as American citizens in the custody of extended family members. These relatives may very well apply for government assistance to provide for these children now that their means of support is no longer here. We may be creating a need for more public assistance. https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-09-22/immigrants-are-a-fiscal-boon-not-a-burden
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By the way as an ESL teacher I have taught many ELLs living in the custody of relatives. It sometimes works out, and sometimes it does not. Some students feel abandoned, and their home environment is stressful and unwelcoming. These students are more likely the engage in at risk behavior and may get in trouble with law enforcement. As a result, more tax dollars will be spent to meet the needs these unhappy American students, who would have been a lot less of a strain on the system, had they stayed with caring parents. We will pay for family separation!
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Several years ago, the father of one of my students was deported after getting a speeding ticket. He left his son behind with a young aunt who all of a sudden found herself in a parental role to a teenage boy . He did not respond at all well to her trying to establish parental authority and fought against her authority. It took many long conversations with his father in Mexico to calm things down, but it was a real and ongoing struggle. His father was a manager at a factory in Mexico, but he wanted a better education and life for his son.
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Many of the little ones will likely go back unless the mother has a secure situation for her child. The older ones will mostly likely stay as they may not read well in Spanish and won’t want to go back to a country they don’t even know. Some Americans may not appreciate our schools, but most foreign parents value them highly particularly if they came from the developing world.
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This is Trump’s America
This is the GOP’s America
This is not the United States the majority of Americans envision
End Trump
End the GOP
Fight back and deliver us from this horrible evil
VOTE in every primary
VOTE in every election
Or one day we won’t be allowed to vote.
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This is a twisted form of thinking that was posted from the WH:
4 Key Facts About ICE, and What Could Happen If It’s Abolished
The Daily Signal’s Fred Lucas examines what would happen if Democrats were to get their wish and abolish U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). One of the most overlooked consequences: “Minority communities would be disproportionately harmed,” according to a senior ICE official.
“These minority communities are the primary victims now, because these individuals are involved in gang activity and other criminal activity and generally they commit those crimes against those in the same communities in which they reside,” Matthew T. Albence, ICE’s Executive Associate Director for Enforcement and Removal, told the Senate Judiciary Committee last month.
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Twisted…YES, and also sick.
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Diane,
Yes this is America – a land of laws they need to follow and obey just like you do.
This story had many weeping when ICE arrested an illegal taking his pregnant wife to hospital –
Mr. Arrona-Lara was brought to ICE’s attention due to an outstanding warrant issued for his arrest in Mexico on homicide charges.
ICE continues to focus its enforcement resources on individuals who pose a threat to national security, public safety and border security. ICE conducts targeted immigration enforcement in compliance with federal law and agency policy. However, ICE will no longer exempt classes or categories of removable aliens from potential enforcement. All of those in violation of the immigration laws may be subject to immigration arrest, detention and, if found removable by final order, removal from the United States.
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Why did the Border Patrol take babies away from parents and lose them? Hundreds of children were lost. Do you think that was right? Does our government have the right to steal children from their parents?
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Correct me if I’m wrong, but most if not all of the parents of those children showed up at the border seeking asylum. Instead of following the legislated procedure for asylum seekers, the parents were arrested, separated from their children, and the rest is history … not Trump’s fake news.
Trump is the fake.
“Each year, thousands of noncitizens arriving at our border or already in the United States apply for asylum, or protection from persecution. Asylum seekers must navigate a difficult and complex process that can involve multiple government agencies. Those granted asylum have the opportunity to apply to live in the United States permanently, receive certain benefits, and be reunited with their family members. This fact sheet provides an overview of the asylum system in the United States, including how asylum is defined, eligibility requirements, and the application process.”
https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/asylum-united-states
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Which law allows the Border Patrol to kidnap babies?
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Diane,
There is no “law” only a policy.
Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen said in a press briefing that children are separated from adults attempting to cross the border illegally to protect them from smuggling or trafficking. They’re only separated when there is no documentation of a custodial relationship, Nielsen said.
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Babies?
BABIES?
You disgust me.
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Spot on, Mr. Robinson.
………………………………
Eugene Robinson: Lying is the core of the Trump administration
Washington •Whenever the Trump administration ends, we already have its shameful epitaph: “Truth isn’t truth.”…
We are accustomed to politicians who shade the truth and spin the facts, but now we have a president who ignores unpleasant truth and rejects unflattering facts. Whether this is a diabolical plan to delegitimize critics or a reflection of Trump’s narcissism, the damage is the same. As a society we become less able to believe, less able to trust.
Truth is truth — and worth fighting for.
https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/commentary/2018/08/21/eugene-robinson-lying-is
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I am truly depressed to see people on this blog who do not seem to care enough about fellow human beings to want to help them, but rather refer to them as “aliens”. Those well informed know that many of these people have had their lives upended because the United States has been destabilizing their countries since we fomented unrest in Colombia so we could build the Panama Canal, overturned a leader so we could give Guatemalan land to the United Fruit Company, and so on down through the years. Many are fleeing for their lives, trying to save their children from being conscripted into gangs or killed for refusal to join. I have seen the lines at embassies – for most there is NO way to get legal immigration papers. I am dismayed and chagrined at the coldness and heartlessness of some. Thank-you, Diane, for speaking up for those who cannot speak up for themselves.
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Janice; Thank you for what you wrote and for realizing that the US is responsible for most of the misery that these unfortunate people have to endure. We allow corporations to determine what happens in other countries and then don’t want these tortured people to come here for relief. This is beyond sad.
I hate to see people suffering. The US has the ability to help but puts its resources into killing. The military complex always needs and gets billions. Trump is a great supporter.
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I watch apocalyptic shows like Handmaids Tale and Jericho and then the news. The news is becoming real scary and full of evil hurting of the human soul.
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Diane,,
There is no “law” regarding separation – just a policy of “Zero tolerance”
The insanity of the immigration issue is trying to prevent illegal aliens – not following the legal lawfully procedures of this country from entry. The separation occurs due to those individuals not having proper documentation for the child accompany them. Harsh, but prevents those using children to enter that don’t belong to them – and then trafficking.
Yes, they are aliens – not citizens.
But now we have another illegal who killed the Iowan missing jogger – Molly Tidbits. An illegal alien has been arrested for the murder of Mollie Tibbetts, the missing Iowa girl who’s body was recently discovered. The Washington Post reports
More than a month after Mollie Tibbetts went out for a jog and disappeared — and days after investigators searching for the missing Iowa college student said they were focusing their efforts on five locations — her body has been found, the Associated Press reported.
I hope those here feel just as repugnant and horrified that this young lady was permanently separated from her family – as they did for the missing children.
Thank goodness we have ICE – who just rid us of a wanted murderer from Mexico
As for Janice’s comment “An illegal alien has been arrested for the murder of Mollie Tibbetts, the missing Iowa girl who’s body was recently discovered. The Washington Post reports
More than a month after Mollie Tibbetts went out for a jog and disappeared — and days after investigators searching for the missing Iowa college student said they were focusing their efforts on five locations — her body has been found, the Associated Press reported.
As for Janice’s comment “…for most there is NO way to get legal immigration papers. I am dismayed and chagrined at the coldness and heartlessness of some.” My brother who did 2 terms in Vietnam and married his now wife filed papers and followed the procedures etc to get her and her family to the US. it took many many years for her family – brothers and sisters with their kids to be accepted. Her parents stayed in Nam.
We have laws – if one doesn’t like the way they work or feel they are unjust – then work to change them.
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You are cruel and cold. No heart. No soul. Please go away.
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Diane That didn’t take long–to read about that story on this site. jscheidell’s reasoning is equivalent to: Finding one welfare mom means the whole welfare system needs trashing. Finding one corrupt lawyer means we should can the entire justice system. It’s aka: grabbing at straws to support a defunct position.
Also, I hear no mention of hundreds of children who have been yanked from their parents, and haven’t been returned. She should go apply for a job at the White House–try Stephen Miller. He’ll like her. CBK
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Diane and jscheidell An afterthought: Nor do I hear of getting rid of the stock market because one CEO, trader, or big company uses it for corrupt means and/or abuses their power through it.
Focusing on one murder to trash reasonable immigration standards is just another form of cherry-picking and hyper-idealism. It reveals the double-standard that shows up when the same principle is applied to big corporations and oligarchs. (This is not to mention it also reveals narrow, shallow thinking). CBK
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The US always has LOTS of money to waste on more military expansion. How long before the US has to cut Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, SNAP and CHIP? This mess is being built after the huge tax break for corporations and the wealthy, increasing the deficit to trillions. Why not kill people who live in ‘shithole’ countries? They are starving but we need to kill.
……………………………
The U.S. Is Building a Drone Base in Niger That Will Cost More Than $280 Million by 2024
A U.S. DRONE BASE in a remote part of West Africa has garnered attention for its $100 million construction price tag. But according to new projections from the Air Force, its initial cost will soon be dwarfed by the price of operating the facility — about $30 million a year. By 2024, when the 10-year agreement for use of the base in Agadez, Niger, ends, its construction and operating costs will top a quarter-billion dollars — or around $280 million, to be more precise.
And that’s actually an undercount. The new projections from the Air Force do not include significant additional costs, such as salaries of the personnel stationed at the base or fuel for the aircraft flying out of Agadez. The facility, which is part of the expanded U.S. military footprint in Africa, is now the largest base-building effort ever undertaken by troops in the history of the U.S. Air Force, according to Richard Komurek, a spokesperson for U.S. Air Forces in Europe and Air Forces Africa.
The outpost — officially a new airfield and associated facilities at Nigerien Air Base 201, or AB 201 — was once billed as a $50 million base dedicated to surveillance drones, and it was to be completed in 2016. Now, it’s slated to be a $100 million base for armed MQ-9 Reaper drones which will finally take flight in 2019, though the construction cost is hardly the end of the tab for the facility…
https://interc.pt/2BzdwH2
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It’s past time for the Orange Buffoon to be in a foul mood. He has put most of the country in a foul mood ever since he got elected.
………………..
White House grapples with response to Cohen, Manafort convictions
Robert Costa and Josh Dawsey, The Washington Post Published 6:58 pm CDT, Wednesday, August 22, 2018
President Donald Trump was in a foul mood on Tuesday as he boarded the short flight to his rally in West Virginia and incensed by the wall-to-wall news coverage of his former associates who were convicted in federal courts hours earlier, according to three advisers who were not authorized to speak publicly…
“Fake news and the Russian witch hunt. We got a whole big combination,” Trump told the crowd, the closest he came to mentioning the legal cloud hanging over him during a rally that lasted more than an hour. “Where is the collusion?”…
White House aides asked the Republican National Committee to write talking points for surrogates to parrot on TV. They were released Wednesday, but the airwaves, a measuring stick in Trump’s eyes, were not dominated by his supporters…
https://www.lmtonline.com/news/article/White-House-grapples-with-response-to-Cohen-13175739.php?utm_campaign=email-desktop&utm_source=CMS%20Sharing%20Button&utm_medium=social
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Get that self-absorbed, ignorant, unfit Orange menace. [You do not have to be a subscriber to view NYT videos.]
VIDEO: ‘Can The President Be Impeached?’ We Answer Your Questions
By ADAM LIPTAK, DAVID BOTTI, NATALIE RENEAU and NILO TABRIZY
Since the news broke of Michael Cohen’s guilty plea, we received lots of questions from our readers. Adam Liptak, the Times’s Supreme Court reporter, answers them.
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