This post includes two very different videos that demonstrate opposite ways of motivating people.
One shows a teacher whose students have been trained to give precisely the response she demands. She is robotic, and so are the students. They do precisely what they are told to do. They are totally compliant.
The other is a video made in Stockholm, where the goal was to persuade people to take the stairs instead of the escalator. The motivator was fun, not external control.
It turns out that there is a better way to motivate people, one that is joyful. I don’t know if it is easier or harder to do, but I suspect the lessons one learns joyfully last longer than those learned under duress. Look at this demonstration created in Stockholm.
As it happens, I have been reading quite a lot about motivation recently, as I have a chapter in my new book about motivation.
Without giving anything away, I suggest you read Edward Deci’s wonderful (small) book, “Why We Do What We Do” and Dan Ariely’s delightful “Predictably Irrational.”
Deci and Ariely represent modern cognitive psychology, which recognizes that intrinsic motivation is far more powerful than extrinsic motivation, and that people are far more engaged when they are purposeful and have a sense of autonomy in their work. These are far more effective at generating intrinsic motivation than tight control.
What do you think?
Diane Ravitch's blog 
I have a simple question. Have you ever tried to get a child to do something that he/she did not wish to do… especially it involved a lot of work.?
All skills involve practice… whichis reparative work. Learning to play golf, or softball, or to play an instrument is no different then learning to think critically — to compare and to contrast what is n front of you, to what you know… and PRIOR KNOWLEDGE IS KEY, TOO.
A teacher who makes it interesting is crucial
So says the REAL National Standards Pew research on The Principals of Learning,
REWARDS for achievement was the second principal that motivated kids to learn.
Rewards are not candy, or prizes, it is the acknowledgement of doing a good job in following the CLEAR EXPECTATIONS of the teacher. (Clear expectations was the first principal.
When the LRCD filmed me, (when I was the nYC cohort for the standards) to discover ‘how I didi it, (I.E how my students achieved the highest writing scores on those first ELA exams) the noticed something.
When the Reader’s Letters were handed back each week, the kids were excited.
“How come she wrote so much to you,” one child asked.
My written letter to each child when they met the expectations for this important piece of writing, was the INCENTIVE.
One mother wrote her Master’s Thesis on the relationship that she noticed her daughter had developed with me, through these letters. IN the nineties before texting, the kids in my class became ‘addicted’ to talking with their teacher… me. it was their reward for writing.
They entered in September writing 50 to 100 words, and left in June writing 1000 to 3000., wonderfully organized, words in great paragraphs… analyzing the books they read, and describing how they felt, what they learned.
Nancy Atwell shoed me how to use Reader’s Letters, in her book “in The Middle.”
I turned it into the tool for portfolio, where I could see what each of 132 13 year old students could do on paper… so I knew what I NEEDED TO SHOW THEM.
There were many things I did to get my kids to love my 7th grade English class.
One boy, would show down his back-pack. lean back on his chair and say.:The Schwartz is with us!”
You bet… motivation was key to every lesson, and their best work was on every bulletin board in the hall that I could use. THAT IS THE REWARD FOR GREAT WORK!
I bet these were The Principles of Learning, not The Principals of Learning.
Success builds more success. When students start to feel accomplished, it builds their self esteem and leaves them more open to more learning and growing. That is why I think students that can find a purpose in the arts, sports, playing chess even dancing often improve in academics as well.
Isn’t it clear, yet. The plutocrats want extrinsically motivated work bots that they can control. How do you create them? By practice, practice, practice.
Any sensible person wants intrinsically motivated human beings as fellow citizens in our grand experiment in self rule.
Ironically the prevailing philosophy among the plutocrats is neoliberalism, which elevates the individual above any collective. I guess it is like the plutocrats economics. They claim they want free markets and competition and then work like beavers behind the scenes to make sure that their industry has no such thing.
We need to look at what outcome we want. If we want self-sufficient, thought-full kids, then we can’t control them with extrinsic rewards. Teachers are programmed to be afraid to let kids make mistakes both academic and behavioral. We can get kids to do anything we want them to, but it may be important to ask ourselves, “At what cost?” Hope you will take a look at my elementary classroom management book, Elementary Classroom Management: Leading and Learning in a Student Centered Classroom. It has structures and strategies to help teachers create classrooms that promote Deci’s Ideas of autonomy, belonging, and competency!
As a twenty year veteran of the NYC public schools, I taught pre-k and always understood that it is better to teach children to motivate themselves instead of requiring rank obedience at all costs. I used to tell them I won’t always be next to them to tell them what to do. They have to develop their own understanding of what is appropriate and how to motivate themselves in difficult situations. I did not do stickers or charts where child is pitted against child. I did not reward them with cookies or play money to get a reward at the end of the week. Their reward was their personal satisfaction in motivating themselves and developing a personal code of conduct.
You have to allow children to be somewhat autonomous otherwise they will be at the mercy of slick adults who know how to get children to comply.
Thank you Diane for mentioning these two books. I look forward to reading them. I am hopeful that the tide will turn when we stop trying to go back to the factory model when children were taught to obey and work on an assembly line.
What I find disturbing is that the young teacher of math thought she was doing an excellent job. The kids are like robots. I sure wouldn’t want to sit like that the whole day. My internal mind would be screaming to get out.
The kids are all well dressed and have clean clothes. That is not the type of uniform that I saw when I subbed in Chicago. Some had white ironed shirts and some wore wrinkled shirts that were slightly yellowed from overuse or not much washing. I’m sure the best students were portrayed in this charter video. Probably the lowest performers, the poorest, had already been kicked out.
You may also want to read William Glasser’s Quality Schools. He was also a. Cognitive psychologist, and he found intrinsic motivation to be a superior motivator for both students and teachers.
Sent from my iPad Bonnie A. Lesley, Ed.D. 1205 Windstone Dr. Waco, TX 76712 254-848-4483 254-855-0594 (cell)
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For me the question is what does it mean to be “human”. Do we believe in raising a child to his/her highest potential as a human being or to become merely a cog in the job market or to just be compliant to the wishes of any leader who claims to possess ultimate truth, to follow his/her manner of thinking as was the case in Hitler’s youth movement. One can teach children many things, note the variety of belief systems prevalent even today, but as has been said so VERY often, what is the purpose of life. What does it mean to be human? THAT is BASIC. What do we motivate children to become? How do we best do that?
I believe we better really think carefully on that now as the future not only of our nation but of the planet itself is at stake.
I’ll go for intrinsic motivation every time. Doing what brings us joy, fulfillment as a person, a sense of purpose keeps us going.
Weren’t those steps fabulous? Made me smile.
Yes! It was quite magical.
Wow, that btch talking to kids is so pushy and aggressive, I would not be able to sit in this class for two minutes. This is a fcking concentration camp. I mean, I understand the need for discipline, but it can be achieved by softer approach. I really wanted to slap her in the face. Ugh!
Both the teachers and the students were robotic.
I’d hate to be a child with an auditory processing problem or an attentional issue in that class.
Agreed. People excel at things they do well.
Do you have Dan Hoganâs email?
Cabot Pollard Pyle
Executive Director
Dugas/Turner Family Foundations
138 Second Avenue North, Suite 200
Nashville, Tennessee 37201
phone and fax: 615.846.2053
cell: 615.476.2818
Dear Diane,
Since you asked, two points that put in question the either/or nature of your inquiry.
First, despite the obvious appeal of intrinsic motivation, some tasks may be better learned, at least in the early stages, relying on extrinsic motives. A good example is toilet training! A child likes the comfort of diapers and is potty-resistant. Appeals to, âdonât you want to be a big girlâ may not be as effective as a piece of candy, praise, or even a sticker. However, once the child makes it to the pamper stage, she may well enjoy the increased comfort and big girl status, at which point extrinsic rewards are no longer relevant.
Second, extrinsic-intrinsic is (often) more a continuum than a dichotomy. As Ryan and Deci suggested in their paper on self-determination theory (American Psychologist, January 2000, 55, 68-78), motivation can move from compliance to commitment as interest develops. A task that is initially boring and maintained only by rewards (or punishments) can become interesting and personally valued by the student, then pursued for its own sake. The authors outline several stages from âamotivationâ to âintrinsic motivation.â Of course for this passage to occur requires a skilled and often subtle teacher, as well as one who is herself intrinsically motivated to nurture such motives in her students. It cannot happen if the teacher is locked into the looming high stake test that her students must pass if she is to retain her job.
I canât imagine a day without reading Diane Ravitch. Deep thanks for all you contribute to my life, not to mention the one-person war you wage on behalf of childrenâs education.
Yours,
Joan (Goodman)
Thank you, Joan, for words of wisdom.
If you want kids to be motivated, get out of the way and leave them alone. Get off their back. Gee whiz.
Every year at one of our PD days, without fail, we have to watch a video just like the first one posted above. Always in regards to some new program, vision, strategy, or district plan. Que the soft music, young vibrant teachers making the sales pitch, robot kids, dog and pony show, etc. Each year I’m closer to handwriting a letter of resignation on the spot, and walking out.
What adults want kids to learn will never be more important than what kids want to learn. Until we face that fact, it will be the same song and dance. “Kids just aren’t motivated(to do my boring worksheets) these days”
Like!
Way-back when I was a teacher at the University Elementary School (UES) at UCLA, motivation was a crucial element as we: organized the school; developed the curriculum; organized our instruction; and carried out our everyday interaction with students. We worked with a set of concepts that we had drawn from the most current research on motivation (as of mid 1960’s) and tried to simplify them for you use in the school setting.
Feeling tone was an important element of creating a pleasant, inviting environment where teachers and students worked together. I remember one instance when we video-taped (ancient technology) one of the members of our team of teachers teaching a lesson. As we viewed the results the teacher, Bob, watched himself and exclaimed, “I hadn’t realized how grim I had become!” He immediately had us help him to work on a more positive “feeling tone” as he taught future lessons.
Another instance of feeling tone of which I have no memory (altho it fits my M.O.) was a hallway meeting of one of my students, Piko. Piko is a Chinese-American who was a very shy 11-year-old and one of our students in 1969. After she left the school I had no contact with her until her class had a 40-year reunion in 2009. She told the reunion gathering about an incident with me that occurred in the hallway. Piko was walking along with her head down, purposely avoiding any eye-contact with others – especially a big, male teacher. According to her narrative, I stopped her after she passed by and said (in what I hope was taken in a mock-serious tone), “Piko, never walk by me again without saying hello!” The adult Pico said this incident was a turning point in her relationship with teachers and other students as she became much more outgoing. With a positive feeling tone you never know what might come out. On the other hand, the harsh, military-like tone of the Success Academy math lesson was more likely to create a quiet, subservient student.
Another element of motivation we worked to apply to all aspects of curriculum was SUCCESS. We created many avenues in which we could analyze the various phases of human growth so that we could provide successful experiences. One of my favorite examples of this was one of my math units where I was working with a class of 10-and 11-year-old students who were struggling with operations on whole numbers. I focused on their lack of skill and confidence in the multiplication of single digit numbers (commonly known as the multiplication facts). I began with a chalkboard game I called “crosslines” that guaranteed success and was an enjoyable activity (positive feeling tone and low level of concern). The intersection of horizontal and vertical lines is an excellent model for multiplication and provided them a method by which they could always find the product of two whole numbers (altho tedious for larger nos.). They then created their own multiplication table – successfully because they could reference their crossline figures. Then I gave them a sheet of math fact problems to solve, using the table they had created – they got them all right because they had the table (if they needed it). Then I timed each student on how long it took to solve this sheet of facts. They almost always got 30/30, but it took them awhile to get there (maybe 10 minutes). For the next several weeks I informally encouraged them to improve their individual times (with no student-to-student comparisons). The times dropped rapidly as they began to realize that using the chart was inefficient their memories began to take over. Toward the end of this unit I vividly remember Curtis (a student who had come to UES as part of an inner-city tutorial project) coming up to me and saying, “Mr. Lawrence, do we have to use this chart for our answers?” “Well, no Curtis, if you know the product just go ahead and write it in.” Boom! Success!
Another element of motivation we tried to blend into every part of our curriculum was INTEREST. Of course the Swedish “musical staircase” is a prime example of using an incredibly interesting format to encourage people to use the stairs over the escalator. UES had a long history (Corrine Seeds Era – 1925-1957) or project-based learning. We still had a life-sized California adobe built by students as well as a life-sized, student-built Conestoga Wagon. With highly motivational projects of the past, our team of teachers gathered in the summer of 1970 to come up with an idea of how we could motivate our students for the 1960-1935 era of our U.S. History unit. I had played a board game call “Stocks and Bonds” and brought it to the meeting. We used the format of this game to create a unit around the buying and selling of stock in a stock market that opened every couple of days and represented the passage of five years. Wow! The Pony Express was exciting in 1960! Invest? Well, not if you listened or read that the Pony Express only lasted about 18 months and was gone by the next time the Stock market opened in 1865! A better investment was U.S. Steel because there would be a lot of steel needed for the Civil War. We had giant boards with the new stock values displayed each day the market was open. Students rushed to the rooms to see what the new values were. They were fascinated with the historical events in ways we hadn’t experienced. American Spirits? Sell in 1915 – prohibition – Buy in 1930 – repeal of prohibition. Revlon? Buy in 1915 because the role of women will change with the right to vote in 1920. Spaulding Sports Goods? Buy in 1920 to anticipate the 1920 craze in sports. Even today, almost 50 years later, I meet alumni of that era who fondly remember the “Stock Market Unit.”
Another element of motivation we used was EXTRINSIC/INTRINSIC motivation. Intrinsic is motivation to do something because it is an enjoyable task. I watch a great deal of sports because I enjoy doing it. I read books for because I’m intrinsically motivated – I find pleasure in the activity. It is the goal of all learning. However, to get there sometimes there needs to some sort of tangible rewards for certain activities. If you can sit quietly and read for 15 minutes, you will be allowed to be the first to go to recess. For each 5 books you complete, you will receive a special certificate. M and M’s, special place in line, note to your parents, and extra time at recess are all tangible rewards for some sort of behavior. The problem with rewards that produce certain behavior is that once the rewards are no longer there, the desired behavior may be gone. However, if the goal is to take part in the activity simply because you enjoy it, you are more likely to continue in the future. Our library-based-self-selection reading program in Upper Elementary was specifically aimed at producing an intrinsic motivation to read on you own. It seemed very effective – however, I’m a bit biased.
These are a few examples of how we incorporated the elements of motivation that we identified into our program. At least we were highly motivated – intrinsically!
That SA video is scary, they’re teaching children to be ultra-obedient and robotic.
I wonder if children taught that way are less likely to grow up to be leaders, entrepreneurs, artists, or risk takers.
I also wonder if children taught that way are at greater risk of being sexually abused or otherwise victimized — do those kids feel empowered to say no or think for themselves?
A question you might also want to consider: what inhibits learning? Often kids are naturally curious but are inhibited from learning by opaque lessons, lack of sufficient background knowledge, developmentally inappropriate tasks, noisy classmates, negative peer pressure. Sometimes simply making material ultra-intelligible magically “motivates” kids (really, it’s just eliminated comprehension difficulties that inhibited learning).
I have a student this year who point blank tells his math and science teachers that he will make no effort in their classes. But he tries hard in my history class. I suspect it’s partly because he grasps my lectures well and he can proudly show off his understanding. Math class entails wrestling with an obtuse Common Core textbook, and the NGSS science class entails lots of inquiry –trying to figure out science from scratch –and minimal direct instruction. There, he is mired in dark confusion and expected to battle his way out of it. In my class, I try to shed light on the world so he can see.
Thanks for this great post, Diane. I felt (& very strongly) two opposite emotions: the S.A. video was painful, really painful to watch, & brought tears to my eyes. The kids looked so unhappy &/or scared; what kind of a direction is “Lock fingers?” “Thumb on desk?”
Not ONE child looked happy, was animated, smiled or–horrors!–giggled (that’s what I really loved about teaching elementary school-aged kids). Their teacher, at certain points, sounded as if she was yelling at them–modulating her voice in very weird ways (I think if she were being observed by a principal in one of the schools in which I had taught, the P would have advised her to/asked-a. Not yell when teaching math concepts; b. Why she was asking them to “discuss” in a “whisper” voice; c. Stop w/all the swooping & crouching (you look like the evil stepmother-witch in “Snow White!”)–you’re scaring the children!
Stockholm video: exact opposite–I actually laughed–so clever & fun! What a way to get people to exercise! (Now this is why I love going to IKEA–they’ve made it a fun experience when I otherwise dread shopping.)
…& I happily drive a 25-year-old Volvo. Wheee!!!
Behaviorism is deeply embedded in American culture and business. Performance (merit) pay. Parent bribes to kids. Pizza parties in schools for test “success.” Cash bonuses for meeting sales goals.
No Child Left Behind was built on Behaviorism. Edward Deci (1995), one of the best-known motivation researchers in the U.S., writes in Why We Do What We Do that “…people employing tests to motivate learning are unwittingly defeating the desire to learn in those people they are attempting to help.” The pressure on teachers, students and schools to deliver test scores results in more “rote memorization” and less conceptual understanding. Perversely, as the pressure and punishments are ratcheted up, Deci finds that – in general – “…the harder teachers are pressured to get results, the less likely it is that the important results will be forthcoming.” That’s why more than just a few elementary school principals can identify with what one of their Boulder, CO colleagues told Newsweek in 2006: “I worry that we are creating environments that are less friendly to kids…Around third grade, sometimes even the most precocious kids begin to burn out.”
It’s even worse for children who live in poverty, and the U.S. has a pretty doggone high child poverty rate.
In “Stress and the Architecture of the Brain” (2005), Dorian Friedman writes that “exposure to frequent stress causes the release of harmful chemicals in a child’s developing brain that can impair its physical growth and make it harder for neurons to form connections with each other.” Adrenaline and cortisol, are critical to the normal functioning of the fight-or-flight reflex, but “activated too often…stress chemicals begin to damage vital regions –– such as the hippocampus and amygdala –– areas responsible for learning, memory, and emotional responses, among other critical functions.”
Stress chemicals in the brain not only affect adversely elements of the older brain (hippocampus and amygdala) but also they impair and/or alter the development of vital structures in the newer brain, like the prefrontal cortex. As psychologist Richard Davidson notes, By the end of the first year of life, specific patterns of brain activity reliably differ among infants…dispositions that can become the building blocks for later adult personality as well as for vulnerability to psychopathology.”
Frideman reported that “one study of youngsters who suffered serious child abuse drew conclusions that were most disturbing: Compared with their peers, these children had measurably smaller brain volume, with more ventricles [the fluid-filled, squiggly cavities] and weaker connections between the organ’s left and right sides. Sadly, the longer they endured the abuse, the more severe were the effects on their developing brains.”
Estimates are that direct and indirects costs of child abuse and neglect –– “which includes physical, emotional, and educational neglect” –– are nearly $100 billion a year.
Lesa Bethea reported more than a decade ago in American Family Physician that
“poverty is the most frequently and persistently noted risk factor for child abuse. Physical abuse and neglect are more common among the people who are the poorest…this association is well documented.”
A 2011 study (“Classroom Learning Environments and the Mental Health of First Grade Children”) by Melissa Milkie and Catherine Warner concluded that
“Children in more negative environments—such as classrooms with fewer material resources and whose teachers receive less respect from colleagues—have more learning, externalizing, interpersonal, and internalizing problems…the classroom environment really matters when it comes to children’s mental health.”
As John Dewey noted in School and Society:
“What the best and wisest parent wants for his own child, that must the community want for all of its children.”
If only that were so.
The summary of the SA video: “It’s critical that kids are critical.”
There is one possibly creative moment in the video: at 3:03 we see 3 divisions 48/12=4, 24/6=4, 12/3=4, so all resulting in 4. Forget the fact that the pictures (demanded, well, ok, suggested by CC) show equivalent multiplications instead of directly showing divisions. Instead, pay attention to what the kid called Damon says. He says (paraphrasing)
“When we divide both the dividend and divisor by 2, the result doesn’t change because whenever we divide both the dividend and divisor by 2, the result doesn’t change”
This of course is not an explanation why the results of the divisions are the same, but the teacher just goes on and asks the kids to memorize the pattern Damon observes by yelling “Tell your partner what Damon says is always true”.
I wonder why she does this, though the spirit of CC would demand that kids give a valid explanation. Possibly, because the real explanation of the pattern via division pictures would require kids working not in unison, and they may have to move their thumbs. Also, the explanation will not be tested.
Intrinsic is better than extrinsic, but the best motivation is waking up to find Antonio Villaraigosa out of the California governor race. Hooray! It wasn’t even close. It wasn’t even close to close.
LCT, now get Tony Thurmond elected State Superintendent!
All those millions wasted on Villaraigosa by the charter billionaires. But it’s like a $1 contribution from any of us.
Ron Leone, the well-funded pro-charter candidate for county superintendent lost badly in Contra Costa Co. –hooray!
excellent news! people are catching on to the game.
With Villaraigosa out, Tuck will get the funding focus. Good news for Thurmond if the funding is reported.
This summer, I will discuss with my family the possibility of running for office soon myself.
Hello Diane: intrinsic/extrinsic motivation? When we consider that human beings are highly developmental, we can understand that children are born into a family and must have parents/caregivers for a very long time if they are to survive and develop well. Those parents/caregivers, and later, our teachers, coaches, social groups, friends, the laws, and religious doctrines, etc., provide extrinsic motivation which, in turn, and if on the right track, helps develop children’s intrinsic motivation as they grow to be thoughtful, relatively autonomous adults. Lots of names for that movement, e.g., self-realization/actualization.
In my own work, my focus is student growth that has critical self-knowledge at its core. That kind of knowledge inspires self-appreciation, SELF-MOTIVATION, and the qualified executive functioning that is required to be a functioning adult. But a theory of mind that can be verified reveals the human mind as a structured set of four KINDS of questions–first evident as FUNCTION in infant wonder. Intimate with physics/body/brain, all beliefs, knowledge, and speculations flow through that question-to-insight process.
The aspect of self-knowledge that is my focus is the student’s personal REALIZATION that I AM A QUESTIONER. Spontaneously, as built-in function, I reach-out BEYOND MYSELF for insights and knowledge that, in turn, inform my values and actions in life.
The link below is to a paper I gave recently at Loyola University in LA. It’s technical and meant for a specialized philosophical audience. However, the first four-to-six pages gives a brief explanation and power point of the above cognitional theory. Interior (intrinsic) motivation is an aspect of the complex that is the human mind, or consciousness, which, as you know, is a huge and active field of study. We can hardly do it justice in these pages. CBK
https://www.academia.edu/36479631/New_Wineskins_Foundational_Dialectics_and_the_Functional_Specialties
Ugh, that first video from Success Academy . . . I imagine it was shown as an example of the “wonderful” teaching that goes on there and people didn’t realize how robotic it would appear to those of us who have taught engaged and enthusiastic students. I note that the date on that video was 2014; I’d be interested to know if that teacher was still teaching there–or teaching at all–and what she thought of those methods now. I’d also be interested in knowing where those students are now, if they look back on their 5th grade year with fondness and satisfaction, and what they think about school and learning now.
I received the video anonymously via email. It was supposed to be a demonstration of excellent methods.
Yes, I imagine it was . . . which is one of the the saddest things about it.
After cooling down a bit (that SA video was scary) I want to say that I do see a very clear necessity for improving discipline in school. When you see video reports about high school kids not listening to the teacher, walking around, talking loudly, putting their feet on the desk, etc you wonder where it all came from. One explanation might be is that (1) they were not taught how to behave and how to talk to adults in their families, (2) they were not taught discipline in early grades, instead they sat on the carpet and allowed to play, talk, get up and walk around, (3) they accepted that they are the most precious in the world, and that no one can physically hurt them (aside of occasional shooting), (4) they were not disciplined at high school, because realistically a teacher can do nothing with a couple of dozen 17-year olds.
So, it may be “fingers locked” and “thumb on the table”, or it may be “hands on the desk” and “raise your hand”, but the ideas of discipline are very similar in different cultures. If kids are not taught to behave – not obey – in early grades, then it leads to detentions in high school. That SA teacher was horrible – horrible! – in her way of “teaching” these young kids (are they 5th grades? They looked more like 3rd graders to me). But I see where she and her superiors were coming from. If you want to deliver your message clearly to two dozen kids, if you want them to listen and to hear and comprehend, then you must ensure that they are quiet and attentive. You need to increase signal to noise ratio, quite literally. Whether you do it by borderline police methods, or by giving away candies, or by talking to parents, or by explaining they will need this stuff in the future… this is where good teachers can be separated from the worse ones.
And if you cannot do that, then you start talking about smaller classes as the panacea.