Teachers of the Year Confront DeVos about Choice

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1. FLERP! says:

   May 1, 2018 at 2:03 pm

   Well, I assume this misunderstanding has finally been resolved!

   Reply
   • NYC public school parent says:

     May 1, 2018 at 4:19 pm

     Well, you can’t entirely blame her, right? DeVos sees highly respected charters having 99% success rates with the exact same at-risk students that are in the public schools. She understands that if charters like that took over, every child would become a high-performing “scholar”.

     Based on that “data” that “researchers” keep touting as absolutely accurate, why would DeVos believe a few teachers of the year? If they aren’t getting 99% success rates and turning every at-risk student into a high performing scholar, they just don’t know what they are doing. Right?

     Reply
2. GregB says:

   May 1, 2018 at 2:08 pm

   “But Hazell, a Republican who voted for President Donald Trump, said he found DeVos’ responses to his concerns unsatisfactory.”

   Gee, I guess Hazell didn’t pay attention during the election. He is shocked, shocked I tell you! The standards (excused the pun-ish reference) for Teacher of the Year in Oklahoma must be quite low.

   Reply
   • icompleat says:

     May 1, 2018 at 2:45 pm

     Great teachers can fall anywhere in the political spectrum. One of my better teachers in high school–and I had a lot of good ones–was a Goldwater Republican. I only know that because of one offhand comment he made the Monday before the election of 1964. His politics didn’t affect his brilliant teaching of the history of world civilizations.

     Reply
     • GregB says:

       May 1, 2018 at 3:21 pm

       Yes, you are correct. Just as many of my best former students were arch conservatives.

       My point is that he’s an idiot if he expected satisfactory answers. There’s enough evidence to know about and expect exactly what he got. He just had to tune in for five minutes to any hearing or public statement DeVos made. He can’t possibly have expected that our Dear Leader would support public education based on what happened on the campaign trail. He does, after all, love the uneducated.

     • icompleat says:

       May 1, 2018 at 3:56 pm

       The way the article’s written, it isn’t 100% clear what he was expressing shock over. But the way I re-read it, he was shocked, as were two of the other teachers, that DeVos believes voucher schools are part of the public education system. That defies common sense, because vouchers are commonly used for tuition to private schools.

       I haven’t heard DeVos say that private schools are part of the public education system, but maybe she has. It is common knowledge, though, that she thinks public dollars should go to private schools, but I don’t think that’s what these teachers were shocked about. You can re-read that part of the article and decide for yourself. To me these teachers come across as brave rather than stupid.

     • GregB says:

       May 1, 2018 at 4:28 pm

       “But the way I re-read it, he was shocked, as were two of the other teachers, that DeVos believes voucher schools are part of the public education system.”

       If they didn’t know that, I’ll be charitable and call them woefully ignorant. They should spend a little time reading this blog. Brave is stretch.

     • icompleat says:

       May 1, 2018 at 5:32 pm

       I’ve spent way too much time reading the blog, and I’ve never noticed that particular construction–that private schools are, or should be, part of the actual public education system. DeVos has said that “the money should follow the child,” and of course she believes that charter schools are public schools. That’s not the same as saying that private schools are public schools, which is absurd on the face of it, and something that a Teacher of the Year might be surprised to hear. Same goes for the average teacher, given that teachers spend most of their time and effort teaching rather than policy. If you’re a classroom teacher, you know how tough it is to do your job well and still find the time and energy to comment on a blog.

       You could say I’m making a distinction without a difference. I don’t think so. I believe it’s an important one that proves DeVos isn’t just incompetent–she’s extremely dangerous. (“Insidious” is a perfect word that another commenter used.) And that’s something the general public still isn’t clued into. For these teachers to speak up to her bluntly and in person is a big deal. Partly because they spoke up, and partly because they were able to draw out DeVos’s true colors for everyone to see.

       Now we know she’s actually claiming private schools are public schools. This is a failed attempt at sleight-of-hand that furthers her personal religious agenda but strains credulity even further. And like her previous claims for “choice,” it goes against experience, common sense, and the US Constitution.

     • GregB says:

       May 1, 2018 at 6:37 pm

       If you were as physically limber as you are intellectually limber, you’d have won many gymnastics gold medals by now.

     • Joel Herman (@jwherman11) says:

       May 1, 2018 at 7:50 pm

       icompleat

       “Great Teachers can fall anywhere on the Political spectrum”. Voting for Trump disqualifies you from being a great Teacher. A molesting , narcissistic racist demagogue , not only disqualifies Trump from being the President but those who voted for him from being a teacher of young children .

       Further if you as a teacher voted for republicans in these states you are getting exactly what you deserve.

     • icompleat says:

       May 2, 2018 at 3:00 am

       I understand what you’re saying, but I don’t agree. Every person is entitled to an opinion. To judge a teacher or any other professional by their vote is to confuse political conscience (and even religious conscience, considering that many Trump voters are single-issue anti-abortion voters) with the ability to do well in a profession. Since a vote is a matter of personal conscience, I don’t think it should enter into someone’s job evaluation.

       I personally believe President Trump is unqualified, a poor excuse for a human being, a demagogue, a disaster so far, and probably worse. I would never, ever consider voting for him.

       But I’m not going to condemn a teacher solely on the grounds that the teacher voted for Trump. In fact, if I were the supervisor of such a teacher in a public school, it might actually be against federal law to do so.

     • concerned citizen says:

       May 1, 2018 at 8:21 pm

       Joel Herman: Politics is about persuasion. You will not persuade people to vote with you by saying they deserve to suffer because of how they voted last time. Just like Hillary did not persuade people to vote for her by calling them deplorables.

       Let’s work towards better public schools for ALL Americans. When you celebrate the suffering of teachers in red states, you are also celebrating the suffering of innocent children who didn’t have a chance to vote for Trump OR Hillary.

     • Duane E Swacker says:

       May 1, 2018 at 8:31 pm

       I’m honored icompleat, especially in the company you mentioned. Thanks for the kind thought!

     • Joel Herman (@jwherman11) says:

       May 1, 2018 at 10:27 pm

       concerned citizen

       Hillary calling them deplorable’s was not the problem . The problem was that in typical Hillary fashion she took it back as quick as she said it . I am a little tired of those that profess to be outraged by condescension from coastal elites like Michelle Wolf who support a rancid piece of S**T like Trump . You can’t watch the Special Olympics or you can watch him mock a handicapped person but you find Wolf upsetting . I’ll skip the profanity.

       Without getting into a rehash which will lead to an hour of back and forth with NYCPSP . Hillary lost not because of the deplorable racists who voted for Trump, but because of those who stayed home . And many stayed home because they did not know the difference between emails in Benghazi , emails at the DNC and emails to Podesta . Comey was the coup de gras . None of which had to do with why I voted for her and vomited.

       And as an economic populist, leaning socialist; I don’t buy the idea that those white working class voters were not affected by the economy, they were .But the decline started in the late 70s and accelerated in the 90s because of William Jefferson Clinton signing on to Republican Trade and economic policy. Policy that left them open to the message from a demagogue , but they were inherently open to the racism in advance.

       I spend too much time fighting against those who vote against their long term economic interest all the time, to be polite about it . Some workers only wake up when their butt is in the frying pan . It is amazing how much anti Trump sentiment I see coming from Teamsters . Oh yes, I remember , the Central States Pension Plan is being gutted.
       You vote for tax cutting Union busters only because you feel it will never affect you. What did they think was going to happen to the children in Arizona when you voted for them . Guess what you burnt your own butts . That does not mean. I wish ill to the majority of teachers who did not vote that way . Just those who have the audacity to walk a picket line with a sign that says I am a teacher and I vote Republican.

       I wont make the inappropriate comparison I want to . I will let Greg B think it , but be left unsaid.

     • GregB says:

       May 1, 2018 at 10:28 pm

       Concerned citizen: while I agree with the overall tenor of your intention, I take issue with your blanket assertion that Hillary Clinton of the fiction that she called all those who voted against her “deplorables.” Let’s look at what she actually said:

       “You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic—you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up.” The other half “feel that the government has let them down” and are “desperate for change. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well.”

       So, as we see, there is a difference. I agree that people who voted for him—many of whom I have known and met—DID vote for our Dear Leader for “racist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic—you name it” reasons. As credible analysis has shown, most of those people are not disadvantaged nor have they lost status. They fear losing status based on many of the reason Clinton cited. She clearly stated that “we have to understand and empathize” with the other half.

       Please don’t perpetuate a fiction. It just feeds a new generation of deplorables.

     • teachingeconomist says:

       May 1, 2018 at 10:32 pm

       icompleat,

       One of the better high school teachers of my children thought that the moon landings had been faked. Despite this, a very good AP European history teacher.

   • GregB says:

     May 1, 2018 at 6:41 pm

     Sorry, but Jesus H. Christ, did you actually write “Now we know she’s actually claiming private schools are public schools.”????

     And you claim to have “spent way too much time reading the blog”???

     Is senility setting in?

     Reply
     • icompleat says:

       May 1, 2018 at 8:16 pm

       Senility? It’s possible. But I think it’s called dementia now.

       Yes, though, that’s my point. To my knowledge, DeVos doesn’t typically come out and say that private schools are public schools. Instead she couches her pitch for “choice” in terms that are intended to sound less absurd. That’s why it’s plausible that an otherwise well informed teacher might be surprised at how she stated it in that meeting.

       I’m basing my comments on the way that meeting was reported in the article, and my understanding of how DeVos typically presents her bad arguments. I could easily have missed something. Maybe someone could send me a link to a speech in which she flat out says that private schools are public schools.

       What I want to do is give credit where credit is due. The teachers who spoke up to DeVos deserve credit. They don’t deserve to be trashed. Yes, I often read the blog when I should be doing my own work. I learn a lot from the posts and comments. Favorite commenters include Chiara, Laura Chapman, Krazy TA, Democracy, Duane, Yvonne (who got me into opposing the reform madness back in about 2010), of course Diane, and many others. Thanks!

     • dianeravitch says:

       May 1, 2018 at 10:33 pm

       If DeVos were explaining her views, I think she would say that all schools, regardless of who runs or owns them, are entitled to public funding. She believes the money should follow the child to any place chosen.

     • icompleat says:

       May 1, 2018 at 8:16 pm

       Can’t forget Some DAM Poet.

     • GregB says:

       May 1, 2018 at 9:16 pm

       Let me try to put this in terms that even you might be able to understand.

       DeVos and other billionaire privatizers want vouchers. Vouchers are public funds that can be applied to private schools. Private schools thereby profit off of public funds. Those funds are taken (stolen, albeit through legislative and administrative shenanigans) from public sources. They are not accountable as public school funds are, but they benefit nonetheless. And if you had been reading the commentators you mentioned rather than citing them for the sake of sophistry, you would have understood that while supporters and defenders of public education see a difference, the privatizers do not—or more accurately, they deny it. The former see it as being unaccountable for public funds, the latter see it as another form of what has become an Orwellian term, innovation—innovation that willingly takes pubic funds but recoils at being held accountable, while the obviously public schools are held to an unrealistic standard of accountability. The line between public and private become nebulous to the point of disappearing.

       And senility and dementia are in no way the same thing. Senility is based on the process of aging. Dementia has to do with biological or injurious activity on the brain, which can, but is not exclusively, related to aging. I chose the word senility with intention.

       I do not trash the teachers who met with DeVos. But I definitely condemn teacher Hazell. In that particular case, my friend Joel speaks for me.

     • Dienne says:

       May 1, 2018 at 9:19 pm

       I would just point out that icompleat has written several thoughtful posts and even tried to clarify his/her point in perfectly civil language, only to be repeatedly insulted by GregB with no justification.

       Just sayin’. I will now sit back and wait to be similarly insulted.

     • Norwegian Filmmaker says:

       May 1, 2018 at 9:40 pm

       No circular firing squads, please!!

     • GregB says:

       May 1, 2018 at 9:47 pm

       So, our resident negative commentator, you’re saying that you agree with the statement that you just learned today that DeVos has “actually [been] claiming private schools are public schools.”?

       DeVos (and Koch, and the Waltons, and the Arnolds, and DFER, and on and on and on) has spent years and billions of dollars to confuse people that the line between public funds (and accountablility) for public schools and private schools is non-existent and artificial. They have pushed testing and assessments as a cudgel against public education while not advocating for the same for the private schools to which they send their children. Teacher Hazell is a poster child of their success. As is the equivocation and rationalization expressed in this post by icompleat.

       Or, as you would have it, is that what Hillary was doing all along? Or something Jill Stein would have fought against? Or it doesn’t matter because everyone is bought and sold, so it really makes no difference? It’s easier to sit on the sidelines and whine and denigrate.

     • dianeravitch says:

       May 1, 2018 at 10:19 pm

       Greg,

       I know you are very knowledgeable about German history. I strongly recommend that you watch “Babylon Berlin,” an amazing series about Weimar.

     • GregB says:

       May 1, 2018 at 10:42 pm

       Thanks, Diane. I recently read about this series in the NYRB and two of my friends in Germany contacted me that I MUST watch this series. I guess I’ll have to break down and get Netflix after all. I appreciate your recommendation; it was the nudge I needed.

       If I may be so pretentious (presumptuous?), I also encourage everyone I can to read Hans Fallada’s “Alone in Berlin.” Based on discussions I’ve had with friends, family and acquaintances who lived through the times, it’s the best description of what it was like to live in Germany during the Third Reich. It is a book of grays, with few bits of black and white judgmental simplicity.

     • dianeravitch says:

       May 1, 2018 at 10:50 pm

       GregB, I had to bite a bullet to subscribe to Netflix. Did not want one penny more for Reed Hastings.

     • icompleat says:

       May 2, 2018 at 1:16 am

       GregB:

       First, about “senility,” I don’t think it’s considered an operative term these days. Losing mental acuity isn’t necessarily a natural aging process. Not according to the book (written by an MD who’s studied this) that I recently bought on how to prevent and maybe even reverse Alheimer’s disease.

       I’ve had two strokes in the past ten years, so I’m especially interested in the topic. I still have a few minor deficits as a result–for example, I can never find the straws and napkins at a fast food place, even if I’m staring right at them. The other is occasional paraphasia. (Of course, if I want to stave off dementia, I should stay out of fast food places.)

       As far as your attempt to explain things to me goes, you didn’t say anything I’m not fully aware of. And I don’t disagree with you at all. Leaving aside the cheap condescension, you did a nice job of distilling the issue. You’re simply missing my point. Diane’s comment is right on target as well. She, too, acknowledges that Betsy DeVos does not make a straightforward argument about what she really wants.

       I’m defending these Teachers of the Year on two grounds, maybe three. First, they understand that charters and vouchers steal money from public schools and they have the guts to confront Betsy DeVos on the issue at an official event. (Instead of just basking in the recognition of being named Teacher of the Year.) For that they deserve praise. Second, it’s understandable that they might not have realized the full, raw impact of DeVos’s agenda until she spelled out her belief that private schools and public schools are or should be considered part of the public school system (and thus are more or less interchangeable). They might be surprised because because that’s not part of the standard pitch for vouchers.

       What I’m telling you is the full truth as I see it, already knowing what you articulated above and having read the HuffPost article. Where equivocation comes in is DeVos’s habitual withholding of the full thrust of her agenda in making her pitch–that is, full privatization, and what’s worse, and not widely known, privatization to help spread her religious beliefs. In my view, she lies by withholding both facts and motives–a textbook case of “mental reservation.”

       I believe that the “not widely known” aspect is the crux of the article. If the bad stuff she’s up to can shock these award-winning and presumably well informed teachers, what about the rest of the public?

       My belief is that very few people–and that includes most teachers–understand what we’re up against. I’m guessing that few outside the range of Diane’s blog understand the school privatization agenda at the same level of sophistication as you do. (And I’ll bet most of those are funded by Gates.)

       That’s why I’ve been trying to urge somebody, anybody, to write some punchy, emotionally resonant, and very brief books that lay out the arguments against testing, privatization, and the rest–aimed squarely at parents and teachers. GregB, maybe you’re the person to tackle one on the DeVos agenda. The public needs to hear that message now.

       I have great hopes for Diane’s next book, because it promises to engage parents and teachers on the heroic human level. I hope other readers are ready to help that book go viral in a big way. Meanwhile, we can all be writing our own.

     • icompleat says:

       May 3, 2018 at 3:08 am

       GregB:

       I should make a couple of corrections. As I said, I agree with your characterization of the DeVos agenda. You know what you’re talking about. (Except for the character assassination part.) But the average teacher and the average citizen don’t begin to know. Most of them don’t even know about this blog, let alone follow it daily and agree with the most pointed critiques. It’s a mistake to imagine that your highly informed and critical point of view should be understood by most teachers. How could it be? These dedicated public servants, including those “shocked” Teachers of the Year, need to be informed, not branded as stupid, ignorant, or spineless. Of necessity, they look at the world through a different lens than you do.

       You’re dead wrong about your speculation that I haven’t been reading the blog. I’ve been reading it since Day One. (Meanwhile, I’ve traveled to Washington on several occasions to attend conferences and rallies against so-called education reform, after retiring from a teaching career of more than thirty years.)

       I used to comment here frequently. I have to be selective nowadays, but I read the blog every day. I usually delete items that are strictly local, and I’ve been ignoring the Bernie v. Hillary sparring and other partisan spats for a long time. I have zero interest in the personality clashes among certain contributors. Once in a while I try to defend teachers against irrational rants that build straw men and make sweeping generalizations but provide no support beyond citing their favorite zealot. I used to be annoyed with people who take personal potshots but refuse to engage in helpful dialogue. Now I write them off as trolls. I used to take offense at low blows, but I’ve come to realize they always say more about the attacker than the target.

       Anyway, I just realized that the anniversary of my first stroke passed without me realizing it, so I’ve actually had two strokes in the past eleven years, not ten.The second one occurred about three and a half years later, and it it was a lot milder. As Dr. Leo Marvin told Bob Wiley toward the end of What About Bob? . . . “I’m fine now.” Just a few glitches now and then. I have no trouble following the currents of so-called education reform, roiled by its oligarch backers.

       Between blog replies last night I attended a performance of Benjamin Britten’s War Requiem in a public university setting. If a person ever wanted to feel awed and humbled by the magnificence of art combined with the enormous potential of public education, that’s a surefire way to go about it. Next to that, getting blindsided by a blog commenter doesn’t mean a thing.

3. Charles says:

   May 1, 2018 at 2:32 pm

   I read the article. The teachers there should not have been shocked, shocked to learn of Ms. DeVos long-time support for school choice. Were they all asleep during the confirmation hearings? Are they not aware of Ms.DeVos record?

   And why should teachers be shocked, when Ms DeVos stated that public schools and charter schools are part of the same public school system? Both of these systems are funded with the same public purse, and that makes them part of the same publicly-financed system.

   And why should anyone be shocked to learn that school choice is draining money away from the publicly-operated systems? That is exactly what school choice is designed to do. It removes students, and the per-pupil expenditures that each student would have received, from the public system, and places that money in the hands of the parents, to select the alternate school (or home school).

   Why is everyone on both sides of the interview so shocked?

   I wish someone would explain it to me, carefully.

   Reply
   • dianeravitch says:

     May 1, 2018 at 5:06 pm

     You are right, Charles.
     Why didn’t the teachers know that she hates the public schools, despises unions, and wants to replace them with tech?

     Reply
     • Joel Herman (@jwherman11) says:

       May 1, 2018 at 11:25 pm

       “Why didn’t the teachers know that she hates the public schools, despises unions, and wants to replace them with tech?”

       If I weren’t crying I would be laughing . How can you be a teacher of the year and not have educated yourself on education issues ,that were front page headlines and nightly news.

       There is a cognitive dissonance that only disappears when they run out of excuses . Usually after they are crushed.

     • Charles says:

       May 2, 2018 at 9:34 am

       Someone once told me, that if you want to find a communist, just go to any university. I also remember back in 1972, after Richard Nixon won re-election with 49 states, against McGovern’s one, a college professor was interviewed. When asked what he thought about Nixon’s re-election, he replied that he could not understand it. He said, that no one that he knew had voted for Nixon.

       Many (not all) academicians are somewhat divorced from the real world. In their ivory-walled institutions, they often lose track of what most ordinary people know.

       In view of the naivete of the participants in that article’s interview, should we not all be asking ourselves: Are these the kind of people who we want teaching our nation’s children?

     • dianeravitch says:

       May 2, 2018 at 9:50 am

       Charles,

       You have made many bizarre comments on this blog, but this may be the stupidest one yet.

       I have worked in universities for 50 years. I have lectured at dozens of universities. I have NEVER met a Communist. Not once.

       If your goal is to cast aspersions in anyone who has ever taught at an AMERICAN university, you are casting aspersion on every field of knowledge.

       Did you meet any Communists when you went to university? I didn’t.

       Are you also suggesting that every one who did not vote for Nixon was a Communist?

       Simply bizarre.

     • Charles says:

       May 2, 2018 at 10:21 am

       When I was in college, I met many individuals, both students and instructors, whose views I considered socialist/Marxist in nature. I had a political science professor who was convinced that I was a CIA plant. I had another political science professor who was supporting the transfer of the Panama Canal to the Marxist government of Panama. At my college, you could not heave a dead cat, without hitting a socialist. I had another professor who was opposed to the war in Vietnam, and supported the communist government in Hanoi. My college was filled with communist sympathizers, and people who pushed socialist/Marxist policies.

       I was not casting aspersions on anyone. And I certainly do not want to imply that anyone who is a college professor is a communist. Many are not.

       I am not suggesting for one minute, that people who voted for McGovern were communists. I voted for McGovern, because I had no use for Nixon.

     • dianeravitch says:

       May 2, 2018 at 10:37 am

       I repeat:

       I have more experience in higher education than you. I have worked in higher education since 1968 and lectured at many universities. I have never once met a Communist at any of them. On every campus, the most conservative Department is usually engineering. I seriously doubt that you ever met a single Communist professor. I suppose you thought everyone who voted for McGovern was a Communist.

     • icompleat says:

       May 2, 2018 at 11:04 am

       “Many are not.”

       That says it all.

     • teachingeconomist says:

       May 2, 2018 at 10:52 am

       Of course there are Marxists at colleges and universities. Some have been my colleagues, some have been my teachers. I have learned a lot reading the works of Jon Elster, John Roemer, and even Immanuel Wallerstein, though I don’t think dependency theory makes too much sense even from a Marxist prospective. My general sense is that some disciplines, like history and sociology, could do with fewer Marxists and some disciplines, like economics, would be better off if they had a few more.

     • dianeravitch says:

       May 2, 2018 at 10:56 am

       I have never worked in an Economics Department. My sense is that Koch funding has bought control of many such departments, to seed libertarians. Maybe Kansas, where you teach, has many Communists, as Charles suggested. I personally have never met a Communist or a Marxist on any campus where I have taught, studied, or lectured. Never.

     • dianeravitch says:

       May 2, 2018 at 10:59 am

       Also, I lectured at KansasUniversity a few years ago and didn’t meet any Communists. Maybe they didn’t show up to meet me.

     • Charles says:

       May 2, 2018 at 11:28 am

       I am an engineer, not an academician. I left college many years ago, and went to the People’s Republic of Mozambique. My apartment was at the corner of Mao-Tse-Tung and Kim Il Sung. I have lived in a communist country,and see the application of Marxist theory up close and personal.

       I voted for McGovern in 1972. I could not stand Nixon. I certainly do not believe that everyone who voted Democratic in 1972 was a communist. My grandfather was a lifelong Democrat, and he voted for McGovern as well.

       I must agree with teachingeconomist. I am no professor,myself, so I defer to his experience. I also agree that there are academicians, with socialist/Marxist credentials working in colleges today.

     • dianeravitch says:

       May 2, 2018 at 2:58 pm

       Teaching Economist named 5 or 6 Marxists. He didn’t name any Communists.

       There are 1.5 million college professors in the U.S.

       Quora:

       According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, there are 1.7 million post-secondary teachers in the US, of whom all are college or university faculty except for 159,700 graduate teaching assistants. Excluding graduate TAs, the number of faculty in the US is therefore 1.54 million.

     • dianeravitch says:

       May 2, 2018 at 3:00 pm

       Charles,

       You said this morning that if you want to find a Communist, go to any college campus.

       Teaching Economist didn’t name one Communist at his own university in Kansas. I have taught at Columbia and NYU, and I can’t name a Communist there.

       He mentioned the names of half a dozen Marxists, none on his own campus. A Marxist is not necessarily a Communist.

       There are more than 1.5 million College professors in the U.S.

       Your statement is BS.

     • teachingeconomist says:

       May 2, 2018 at 2:14 pm

       I hardly know what to say here.

       Immanuel Wallerstein and John Roemer are both at Yale, Jon Elster is at Columbia, Duncan Foley, Richard Wolf, and Anwar Shaikh are all at the New School, Samuel Bowles and Herb Gintis (emeritus now) at Umass Amherst. These are just some of the better known living Marxist economists.

     • dianeravitch says:

       May 2, 2018 at 2:54 pm

       Out of how many thousands of professors? Charles said if you want to find a Communist, go to a university.

       Could he show up at Kansas U and find a Communist?

   • GregB says:

     May 1, 2018 at 6:51 pm

     Hell hath truly frozen over. I find myself in complete agreement with Charles.

     Reply
     • Charles says:

       May 2, 2018 at 9:28 am

       Even a blind hog, finds an acorn sometime.

   • Roy Turrentine says:

     May 1, 2018 at 8:59 pm

     Maybe they were shocked because she had the disrespect to bring up school choice so inappropriately. After all, those who are in office should be expected to refrain from saying insulting things to those she is honoring. Oh, wait. Somehow I forgot this is a new era, when insulting those you are honoring is standard operating procedure.

     Reply
   • teachingeconomist says:

     May 2, 2018 at 4:32 pm

     Dr. Ravitch,

     I named living Marxist economists with appointments at prominent northeast universities. I could easily name more, or we could expand to other disciplines. Here, for example, is Erik Wright’s webpage: https://www.ssc.wisc.edu/~wright/ . He is past president of the American Sociological Association, a full professor at UW Madison, and a Marxist.

     You might also be interested in this discussion about Marxist historians: https://s-usih.org/2012/10/a-list-of-marxist-historians/

     Reply
     • dianeravitch says:

       May 2, 2018 at 6:36 pm

       What % of America’s 1.5 million professors are Communists, as Charles claimed?

     • dianeravitch says:

       May 2, 2018 at 6:51 pm

       Teaching Economist,

       If Charles came to your campus in Kansas, how many Communists would he meet?

     • teachingeconomist says:

       May 2, 2018 at 7:15 pm

       Higher than the 0 that you claimed.

       Charles said black, you said white. Once again, the real world is grey. There are many scholars who use dialectical materialism is a foundation of their work. There are many scholars who use class exploitation as a foundation for their work. As an economist concerned with economic development, I have read and thought deeply about the works of Dobbs, Sweezy, Singer, Prebisch, Luxemberg, Futrado, Baran, and Gunder Frank. There is no reason to hide our Marxist colleagues from view.

     • dianeravitch says:

       May 3, 2018 at 8:49 am

       Charles said Communists. You say Marxists.
       They are not the same.

       I worked for many years atTeachers College. Never encountered a Communist or a Marxist.

       I have been at NYU for 25 years. No Communists there.

       I am sick of the stupid rightwing canard that American universities harbor vast numbers of Communists. They don’t. If you want to associate yourself and Kansas University with this view, don’t let me stop you.

     • teachingeconomist says:

       May 3, 2018 at 12:55 pm

       Dr. Ravitch,

       Perhaps you should introduce yourself to Professor Ollman in the Department of Politics at NYU. Here is a link to his NYU webpage: https://as.nyu.edu/content/nyu-as/as/faculty/bertell-ollman.html and one to his personal web page: http://www.nyu.edu/projects/ollman/ .

       He has been on the NYU faculty since 1967 and was the host of a radio show on WBAI called “Visits with Marxist Thinkers”. He also runs the Faculty Colloquium on Marxist Theory at NYU. Have you never gone?

       There is a huge difference between vast numbers and none. Saying there are vast numbers of Marxists in the academy is false. Saying that there are no Marxists in the academy is also false.

     • dianeravitch says:

       May 3, 2018 at 2:19 pm

       TE, I have not met Professor Ollman. Is he a Communist?

       You and Charles seem to think America’s university are overrun by Communists.

4. Chiara says:

   May 1, 2018 at 2:57 pm

   They hardly ever let public school teachers in to ed reform events- this is why 🙂

   Reply
5. Chiara says:

   May 1, 2018 at 3:08 pm

   “Hazell and McDaniel said that at one point DeVos expressed opposition to teachers going on strike for more education funding. Indeed, DeVos has an intensely fraught relationship with teachers unions, and her family has a long history of working against organized labor.

   “She basically said that teachers should be teaching and we should be able to solve our problems not at the expense of children,” Romano said. “For her to say at the ‘expense of children’ was a very profound moment and one I’ll remember forever because that is so far from what is happening.”

   I agree with DeVos. Teachers should be teaching. However- lawmakers in their states refused to do their jobs and figure out a workable and sufficient K-12 funding scheme, so teachers had to do their jobs for them.

   If they hadn’t have walked off Arizona public schools would still be collapsing from neglect- it’s just that no one would be doing anything about it.

   Why doesn’t she go ask Arizona lawmakers why they can’t seem to manage operating schools in a halfway competent manner? That’s their job. If they start doing it then maybe teachers can go back to doing their jobs.

   Reply
6. carolmalaysia says:

   May 1, 2018 at 3:12 pm

   “Hazell and McDaniel said that at one point DeVos expressed opposition to teachers going on strike for more education funding. ”

   What kind of person would demolish teachers for wanting more for their students and to have a decent salary upon which to live? This proves that she is a monster who believes that the wealthy are the keepers of knowledge and teachers are the peons who don’t deserve better.

   She just lowered herself in my estimation. That’s hard to do since she was as low as anyone [except Trump] could be.

   Trump certainly does NOT have good intuition. Everyone he picks is an unfit disaster. How much benefit could come to schools from the wasted $1 million a month to keep this $#()^(#_( &(* in office as Secretary of Education?

   Reply
7. Linda Gartzman says:

   May 1, 2018 at 3:42 pm

   Trump’s picks are not because of poor judgement. One can only think that if you believe he really had a strategy for helping American citizens. His strategy is the old trickle down theory based on old technology which has continually be debunked by real life. Think the gilded age.

   Reply
8. retired teacher says:

   May 1, 2018 at 3:52 pm

   Teachers shouldn’t strike “at the expense of children.” Teachers do not want to strike. Walking out is an act of desperation when negotiations have repeatedly hit a wall.

   As far as “at the expense of children,” somebody should study the impact of so-called “choice” with all the disruption on children. Market based education is anything but child centered. It is profit centered creating a lot more losers than winners.

   Reply
9. Joe says:

   May 1, 2018 at 5:01 pm

   Yes, of course, the billionairess who takes baths with hundred dollar bills (and other more nefarious uses of the bills which I won’t go into in this venue) is offended when teachers demand better pay and benefits. Empress Betty demands that the peons know their place in the US caste system.

   Reply
10. Duane E Swacker says:

    May 1, 2018 at 5:59 pm

    From the article:

    “DeVos told Meibos that she ‘cannot comment specifically to the Arizona situation,’ but that she hopes ‘adults would take their disagreements and solve them not at the expense of kids and their opportunity to go to school and learn.'”

    Remember the conservative (or is that regressive reactionary) State Policy Network’s messaging guide on discussing the teachers’ strikes? Here is #1 Teacher strikes hurt children and low income families.

    Ol Betsy the Ditz just sticking to the playbook, eh!

    Reply
    • GregB says:

      May 1, 2018 at 6:53 pm

      Hey, Duane, what’s a progressive reactionary? 😂

      Reply
      • Duane E Swacker says:

        May 1, 2018 at 8:27 pm

        An FDR Democrat?

      • GregB says:

        May 1, 2018 at 9:28 pm

        You completely lost me on that one. I agree with all you wrote, but that parenthetical phrase is baffling.

        A progressive, by definition, is encourages change for social justice. A reactionary reacts, by definition, resists change because past experience is superior to any change that might upset the established social and political order. Hence my 😂.

      • Duane E Swacker says:

        May 2, 2018 at 9:09 am

        GregB,

        You misread my parenthetical thought. It reads “regressive reactionary” not “progressive reactionary”. I thought you were coming up with a new term to describe progressives with the “progressive reactionary” and attempted to figure that term out and the only thing I could come up with was the “FDR Democrat” as their certainly are few true progressive Democrats in the power structure of the Dimocrapic party these days.

      • GregB says:

        May 2, 2018 at 10:21 am

        Just joshing you, Duane. I should have written: If a conservative is a regressive reactionary, then what is a progressive reactionary? To me the the term “regressive reactionary” is redundant. And there is no such thing as a progressive reactionary. But I see and agree with your point completely.

    • Roy Turrentine says:

      May 1, 2018 at 9:04 pm

      Duane: I was about to say that? Thanks for putting it better than I could. Ever since I can remember, my superiors who disagreed with me about a method or a required task that took time away from my students would intone, “we have to do what is best for the kids.” I do not doubt that fascism justified its excesses with similar rationalization.

      Reply
      • Duane E Swacker says:

        May 2, 2018 at 9:13 am

        Yes, I heard that from adminimals at times but not often due to the nature of what I taught-Spanish, and the adminimal’s total lack of knowledge in that subject area. But when it did happen my response: “Well your concept of what’s best for my students and my concept of what’s best doesn’t jibe and since I’m in with them day in and day out I’m going with what I believe to be the best.”

11. annat says:

    May 1, 2018 at 8:31 pm

    I was so angry when I read that article this morning. How could those award-winning teachers not know that DeVos only cares about making money? Are they that clueless? And what did Hazell expect? He voted against his own interests and those of his students! It’s mind-boggling. And, yes, teachers fall across the political spectrum, but many Republicans oppose Trump. Anyone who cares about others, teachers included, should be vehemently opposed to Trump. I agree that anyone who supports a racist, misogynistic, vile person such as Trump does not have the ethics required to be a teacher. I wish those teachers had boycotted the meeting with DeVos. That would have been a loud and clear message. Talking with her is a waste of time.

    Reply
    • Norwegian Filmmaker says:

      May 1, 2018 at 9:44 pm

      Some of the smartest dumb people – or some of the dumbest smart people – actually exist. Many do on perhaps an epidemic level.

      I am beginning to think that level of education does not always equate to level of awareness. I am finding this more and more.

      Reply
    • Joel Herman (@jwherman11) says:

      May 1, 2018 at 11:33 pm

      Bingo ! I could have saved some typing. Will they show up in the White House . Take a hint from some football Players. Like the Eagles respectfully decline the invitation .

      Reply
12. annat says:

    May 1, 2018 at 8:33 pm

    In my opinion, the teachers wasted a unique opportunity to send a message.

    Reply
    • Jack says:

      May 1, 2018 at 8:59 pm

      Is that sarcasm? Because it sounds like that’s exactly what they did.

      Reply
13. Ed Detective says:

    May 2, 2018 at 12:25 am

    Betsy’s personal belief, and entire job, is to privatize schools and make them religious. Teachers meeting with her to talk, as if she’s willing to be convinced otherwise, is not going to change that.

    Reply
14. Charles says:

    May 2, 2018 at 11:52 am

    Here is the link to the WashPost article on the meeting:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/education/wp/2018/05/01/the-nations-top-teachers-met-with-betsy-devos-and-not-all-of-them-were-thrilled-with-what-she-had-to-say/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f8a82f77cd6e&wpisrc=nl_sb_smartbrief

    Reply
    • icompleat says:

      May 3, 2018 at 10:15 am

      Charles:

      Thanks for the link. The Washington Post article is more clearly written than the HuffPost article.

      I’m with Diane on your claims about Communists in higher education. If you’re going to talk about leftists anywhere, it would help to define your terms. It might result in less misdirection from other ideologues.

      Reply
15. carolmalaysia says:

    May 2, 2018 at 3:15 pm

    This is off topic but related to education and the Noble Network of Charter Schools that destroys students. How horrifying for these girls.
    …….
    Girls Reportedly Bleeding Through Pants Due To Charter School Bathroom Policy
    By Doha Madani

    A network of Chicago charter schools has policies so strict that some menstruating girls are bleeding through their pants for lack of permitted bathroom breaks, an NPR affiliate reported on Monday.

    In early April, NPR Illinois outlined the “dehumanizing” disciplinary practices at the Noble Network of Charter Schools, which has 18 campuses that serve 12,000 students in the area. Teachers and students subsequently reported other practices, including strictly limited bathroom visits.

    “We have [bathroom] escorts, and they rarely come so we end up walking out [of class] and that gets us in trouble,” an anonymous student texted to an NPR reporter. “But who wants to walk around knowing there’s blood on them? It can still stain the seats. They just need to be more understanding.”

    A spokesman for the charter school network confirmed to HuffPost that students are given an escort to the restroom during class, which works similarly to having a hall pass.

    Feminine hygiene products can leak if they aren’t changed every few hours. Tampons that aren’t changed regularly can cause toxic shock syndrome, a life-threatening type of bacterial infection.

    Noble Network of Charter Schools has carved out an exemption in the dress code so menstruating students who stain their clothes can tie their school sweatshirts around their waists, NPR reported. An email to staff members names the girls who are exempt from the dress code so they don’t garner demerits.

    Students receive automatic detention after four demerits in a two-week period and are required to take a “character development” course after 13 such detentions, according to NPR’s first report. Prior to the 2017-2018 school year, Noble schools charged students $140 to take the behavioral course.

    One teacher told NPR that the school is disconnected from its predominately black student body, and students sometimes resist the stringent policies.

    “One student says it best, ‘When you treat us like animals, what do you think we are gonna act like?’” the teacher told NPR anonymously, for fear of retaliation.

    Constance Jones Brewer, president of the Noble Network of Charter Schools, released a statement to HuffPost rejecting the NPR report’s characterization of the bathroom policy. Brewer’s statement claimed that the schools were being attacked as a result of the “unfortunate political and emotional debate” around charter schools.

    “Let me be clear – Noble absolutely accommodates our students during menstruation, including bathroom trips whenever the student needs one,” Brewer said in a statement. “This is the same accommodation as high schools everywhere, and I would tolerate nothing less from my organization. We love our students and it is our sacred responsibility to ensure their health and safety. We also know that stains are still not 100% preventable for factors that are private to each student, but when they happen, our schools provide supportive solutions as quickly as possible.”

    These solutions include borrowing clean uniform items from the school’s office and covering the stains, as previously mentioned.

    Scott Cameron, executive editor of the Illinois Newsroom, told HuffPost in a statement that the affiliate stands by the reported article.

    “Our story focused on a range of responses to a previous piece about discipline policies at Noble schools,” Cameron said. “This issue was one part of the response. As we previously reported Noble discipline policies vary by campus. Sources on several different Noble campuses independently shared experiences about a lack of bathroom access. Additional sources also came forward with similar experiences after publication. We stand by the story. ”

    This article has been updated with a statement from the Noble Network of Charter Schools and NPR Illinois.

    Clarification: This story was updated to note that for the 2017-2018 school year, the Noble Network of Charter Schools eliminated the requirement that students pay $140 for a character development course after 13 or more detentions.

    Reply
16. carolmalaysia says:

    May 2, 2018 at 6:09 pm

    Good grief. It has come to this.
    ……………………………………
    Teacher Pay Is So Low in Some U.S. School Districts That They’re Recruiting Overseas

    Citing a dearth of qualified local candidates, schools are increasingly turning to foreign educators in the Philippines to fill core teaching jobs.

    GLENDALE, Ariz. — The latest wave of foreign workers sweeping into American jobs brought Donato Soberano from the Philippines to Arizona two years ago. He had to pay thousands of dollars to a job broker and lived for a time in an apartment with five other Filipino workers. The lure is the pay — 10 times more than what he made doing the same work back home.

    But Mr. Soberano is not a hospitality worker or a home health aide. He is in another line of work that increasingly pays too little to attract enough Americans: Mr. Soberano is a public school teacher.

    As walkouts by teachers protesting low pay and education funding shortfalls spread across the country, the small but growing movement to recruit teachers from overseas is another sign of the difficulty some districts are having providing the basics to public school students.

    Among the latest states hit by the protests is Arizona, where teacher pay is more than $10,000 below the national average of $59,000 per year. The Pendergast Elementary School District, where Mr. Soberano works, has recruited more than 50 teachers from the Philippines since 2015. They hold J-1 visas, which allow them to work temporarily in the United States, like au pairs or camp counselors, but offer no path to citizenship. More than 2,800 foreign teachers arrived on American soil last year through the J-1, according to the State Department, up from about 1,200 in 2010…

    Reply
17. Maddie Burke says:

    May 5, 2018 at 7:46 am

    Why is there a discussion about who anyone voted for? Democrats are just as guilty as republicans when it comes to educational policies.

    Reply
    • carolmalaysia says:

      May 5, 2018 at 8:09 am

      Maddie: Education is extremely important. However, there are other issues that impact on the education of students: poverty, lack of decent food [Repubs want to cut funding for SNAP], lack of health care [Repubs want to cut funding for Medicaid], lack of schools or large class sizes. [Repubs what to cut taxes and that reflects in teacher shortage, strikes and lack of adequate funding for crumbling schools or supplies]. Republicans also want to cut back on funding for Social Security and Medicare. This impacts all of society since the elderly would once again be out on the streets and ill.

      Democrats haven’t done anything useful for education but they aren’t as hurtful towards other important issues: immigrants, clean environment, green jobs. All impact society.

      Reply
18. wdf1 says:

    May 9, 2018 at 2:30 am

    Also this:

    When Mandy Manning received her 2018 Teacher of the Year award at the White House Wednesday, the press was barred from her speech, and President Trump did not mention who she teaches: immigrant and refugee children. While she was at the White House, Manning handed President Donald Trump a stack of letters from her refugee and immigrant students, while billionaire Education Secretary Betsy DeVos looked on. She also wore six politically themed buttons as she accepted her award from Trump, featuring artwork from the 2017 Women’s March, a rainbow flag and the slogan “Trans Equality Now!” Mandy Manning joins us from Spokane, Washington, where she is an English and math teacher at the Joel E. Ferris High School. She was named 2018 National Teacher of the Year by the Council of Chief School State Officers.

    Reply
19. icompleat says:

    May 25, 2018 at 2:01 am

    GregB:

    It looks as if someone has deleted your most offensive comments aimed at me–where you falsely accused me of lying (three different ways). There’s another one that needs to be answered.

    “DeVos (and Koch, and the Waltons, and the Arnolds, and DFER, and on and on and on) has spent years and billions of dollars to confuse people that the line between public funds (and accountability) for public schools is non-existent and artificial. They have pushed testing and assessments as a cudgel against public education while not advocating for the same for the private schools to which they send their children. Teacher Hazell is a poster child of their success. As is the equivocation and rationalization in this post by icompleat.”

    Your first sentence might be an excellent insight, but given the next two sentences, you’re implying that I’m confused about the fact that these people have been up to no good. No way. I’ve been condemning them for years.

    Also, you’re implying that teachers should have known about or figured out all that. No–it was a stealth operation from the word Go, and even today is little understood by the public. (Most people don’t live in your bubble.) At the same time, you’re leaving out the fact that DeVos and the rest have used powerful (and expensive) messaging that deliberately conceals their true intentions.

    As for your second sentence, there’s no way I would ever disagree with it, and nothing I’ve written here disagrees with it. You’re implying that that Teacher of of the Year–and me–are people who WOULD disagree, when in fact we have both opposed DeVos’s policies. (Hazell opposed DeVos in person.) In other words, you’re attacking a straw man.

    Finally, accusing me of equivocation is a serious charge that has no basis at all. For those who don’t know, equivocation is a way of lying, especially by concealing information or using ambiguous language with an intent to deceive.

    My name is Randal Hendee. I’m a retired English teacher, writer, and editor. I’ve considered myself a public education activist since November of 2010. Who are you, Greg? And why would you want to defame someone who’s just trying to stick up for teachers and understand the recent craziness of education policy?

    On May 1st I offered a defense of the teachers of the year who spoke up to Betsy DeVos. It might have been a nuanced argument, and maybe you thought it was a weak one, but it was plenty straightforward.

    Instead of engaging the actual substance and rhetoric of the argument, you decided to accuse me of lying. For the record, each and every comment I’ve made on this blog has been scrupulously honest. Any mistakes have been honest mistakes. That goes for comments submitted via my phone (which show up under the name “”icompleat”) and the ones submitted via my laptop (under my own name).

    In recent months I’ve been forced to comment using my iPhone because the comments I posted using my laptop under my actual name—including some very detailed ones that took hours to compose—failed to show up on the blog. When I try to post under my actual name with my phone, that name always reverts to the accidental handle I used to create my free WordPress account—icompleat. I gave up trying to comment using my laptop quite a while ago. Ditto for trying to post under my real name. It’s too much of a hassle. It’s also a big hassle to deal with mean-spirited, presumptuous commenters.

    Like I said on a different page, I’m registered for the NPE conference in October. With any luck, you’ll have a chance to defame me there (or apologize.) Meanwhile, although I may stop commenting, I’m going to continue reading this blog every day. It’s still the best defense we have against teacher bashing and bad education policy.

    Reply
    • dianeravitch says:

      May 25, 2018 at 6:22 am

      Randal,

      None of your comments have been deleted, at least not by me. I have had endless grief from WordPress in the past two years. They block readers and comments for no reason. Dozens of people have written to complain. People who have commented here since the blog debuted in 2012 are suddenly cut off. I have contacted WordPress repeatedly to complain, to get help. Once in a while, someone who was cut out is able to get restored. Most people don’t have the time to jump through hoops. I’m very frustrated.

      Reply
      • icompleat says:

        May 25, 2018 at 11:26 am

        Diane, the comments I couldn’t find were made by GregB, not me. I do hope those comments are gone, because they were defamatory. In my last comment I answered another of his false claims. I’m not complaining about anything you did.

        On one hand, I don’t want to back down from a bully. On the other hand, I’m not inclined to participate when commenters with good points and good intentions are demeaned and denigrated in such a false and offhand way.

        That kind of behavior is straight out of a middle school classroom. You’re not guilty of it. But some of the commenters are.