Reader Zorba writes:
”I cannot believe this merde about arming the teachers.
”Are the states and districts going to pay for training the teachers, pay for their guns, their bullets, their liability insurance? Pay the teachers way more because they are not just teachers, but first responders? All of this when in many districts they’re not even willing to pay for enough teachers or even pay for enough books, pencils, and frigging copy paper for each classroom.
”Give me a break.
“I am a retired special education teacher. My students were developmentally disabled and severely emotionally disturbed. Some were also sometimes self abusive or violent, and I had to restrain them for their own safety or the safety of others. So, if I had a gun strapped to me (whether concealed or not), what if the kid was able to grab that gun?
”These people are not just stupid and clueless, they have lost any moral boundaries, if they ever had any.”
Diane Ravitch's blog 
Zorba is right.
LikeLike
Arming teachers IS CRACK.
LikeLike
Yes, and the argument to arm school security officers is equally stupid. They’re there to diffuse problem situations, and wearing a gun would not do that.
LikeLike
This brings back the debate about whether having a gun makes you safer or not. The statistics are muddled because Congress made the CDC and DOJ defund data collection, but as I remember, the incidences of gun theft, mishaps, overpowering, crimes of passion and suicide increase much more than successful good-guy interventions.
The gun folks also screw with the stats by claiming every day that went by without a crime proves the deterrent power of guns.
I always invoke Reagan. He had a change of heart on assault weapons. This whole article is worth reviewing but the best line is “any hunter that needs 20 rounds to kill a deer should take up golf”.
https://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/10/08/republicans-didnt-always-march-to-the-national-rifle-associations-drum/
LikeLike
“any hunter that needs 20 rounds to kill a deer should take up golf”.
First off, that person would not be a hunter but a shooter. And you are correct she/he should be more concerned with what they shoot in golf.
LikeLike
There are 3,200,000 teachers in over 98K schools. So, somewhere between 100K – 3mm people need to be trained.
As any educator knows, if you don’t practice a skill, you lose it. Do teachers get paid for additional training days, or do students get fewer learning days so teachers can qualify at the range?
If teachers are armed with handguns, assailants can don body armor to protect themselves. Shall we arm teachers with long guns with armor piercing rounds?
If some teachers opt in and other pt out (or don’t qualify physically), will parents be allowed to place their kids with certain teachers who are “safer”?
It’s pretty ironic that gun advocates want government to place armed personnel, authorized for lethal force, in public places so they don’t have to register their guns, which they think will make it easier for government to place armed personnel, authorized for lethal force, in public places.
LikeLike
A teacher from Columbinewas on MSNBC last night and she said that she didn’t see how she could wear a concealed weapon. Where would she wear it? How could she conceal it? What if she shot a student instead of the assailant? She did not want to be armed.
LikeLike
I wish that someone would have had the gumption to stand up and walk out at today’s White House farce (did anyone else notice DeVos’s stupid grin throughout?) once our Dear Leader started to spew his bile about arming teachers. A supplemental f- – – you, you pathetic excuse of a human being, would have been nice too. This disgusting moron deserves absolutely no decorum whatsoever.
LikeLike
Like.
LikeLike
It would only benefit the weapons manufacturers.
LikeLike
Exactly. Yet another way of spending public-school money on private companies: security company, gun maker company.
LikeLike
And if any teachers or admins get too pissed off with APPR, standarized testing, or union busting and can’t handle their anger, then what? They should carry a gun? Really?
Congress is going from stupid to stupider.
LikeLike
NF: you are quite correct. It is not too much to envision bus loads of irate teachers going to lobby state legislatures armed to the teeth by their state legislatures. Remember old Miss Tate? You did not want to cross her. Now that she is armed to the teeth, you really do not want to forget your homework.
LikeLike
In Utah, ANYONE with a conceal carry permit may wear a gun to the state capitol. Several legislators are armed, and part of the security plan in the event of a shooting. I’ve talked to the legislators myself.
LikeLike
Trump is clueless about the realities of being a teacher. More guns in schools would lead to a greater potential for people to be hurt or killed. Like most of what Trump says, he does not understand the consequences.
LikeLike
Our Dear Leader is clueless about the realities of being a human being.
LikeLike
Like
LikeLike
Oh, he knows the realities of being a human being. It’s just those realities don’t coincide with any critical/rational thinking human’s.
LikeLike
“I would imagine that there’s probably a gun in the school to protect from potential grizzlies.”
LikeLike
I was just reading some of the comments from the NYT. I was amazed to read that there are people who actually think the solution is to arm several teachers. I can’t imagine working in a school and have the knowledge that a peer of mine is packing a gun. That is just plain crazy and something thought out by someone who knows nothing about the school culture.
Teachers will never be trained killers. We are not a SWAT team.
LikeLike
It is NOT fun working in a school and wondering if your colleagues are packing, or if your children’s teachers are packing.
It’s already legal (and somewhat encouraged) to have teachers conceal carry in schools. A student teacher I had years ago carried.
The thought that since I don’t carry, that I would be blamed for not stopping a shooter infuriates me.
And the only time a concealed carry gun was used in a school was when a teacher accidentally shot up a faculty room bathroom while picking up her gun. She later resigned. REALLY quality argument for teachers to be carrying. A professor in Idaho shot himself in the foot DURING A CLASS.
LikeLike
Zorba speaks the truth.
If I hear another gun advocate (Trump) talk about “gun free zones” being the problem, I will utter a profanity or two. Columbine had an armed guard who actually shot at one of the teens but missed. Not a gun free zone. The Tucson massacre occurred in an area in which people were carrying concealed weapons; the shooter was jumped by several bystanders when he had to reload his semi-automatic pistol (9mm Glock pistol). Not a gun free zone. Virginia Tech had armed security guards on campus when the massacre occurred. Not a gun free zone. These crazed shooters don’t care if it’s a so-called gun free zone or not, they have in fact attacked police stations, policemen in their squad cars and even on military bases. And as we know, the Marjory Stoneman Douglas HS had an armed cop on duty. How is that a gun free zone. In any case, if the police appear on the scene within a few minutes, how is that a gun free zone.
So a teacher with a class of 30 plus kids has the added responsibility of carrying a concealed weapon and possibly using the weapon in a confusing and chaotic situation, risking hitting the kids or even fellow teachers. Bullets can ricochet or pass through doors and walls. Insane.
It’s impossible to intelligently debate or argue with these dyed in the wool gun lovers, it’s like talking to a brick. It’s very simple, they love their guns more than the lives of the children in the schools or anywhere. They want their guns, semi-automatics, even the 50 caliber sniper rifles and to hell with everyone else.
From a gun web site: The 50 caliber sniper rifle is the largest caliber rifle available to American citizens. Rifles of a caliber larger than .50 are restricted by law.
Other than this artificial distinction created by ignorant beauracrats, the .50 caliber sniper rifle is no different than a sniper rifle in any other caliber.
The .50 BMG is known internationally as 12.7x99mm. Outside of the United States, 12.7x108mm, 14.5x114mm Russian, 15.2mm Steyr, 20×83.5mm MG151, and 20x110mm Hispano sniper rifles are utilized.
.50 BMG is the smallest caliber used in big-bore sniper rifles. End of the filthy quote
I am so sick of this insanity.
LikeLike
So how many teachers get assaulted every year about 16,000 . Just what we want the teen grabs the concealed weapon opens up on the teacher then his class mates. Sounds like another brain dead right wing idea . They really don’t believe a word they say, they know better ..
LikeLike
How ridiculous, even childish! It’s not proposing arming teachers, but having trained individual(s)armed, such as a coach, security guard (retired police, military) on campus.
The sooner these nonsense exaggerations stop, the closer we will be to having protected campuses.
LikeLike
“On a busy Friday morning in Manhattan, nine pedestrians suffered bullet or fragment wounds after police unleashed a hail of gunfire at a man wielding a .45 caliber pistol who had just killed a former co-worker.
The officers unloaded 16 rounds in the shadow of the Empire State Building at a disgruntled former apparel designer, killing him after he engaged in a gunbattle with police, authorities said.
Three passersby sustained direct gunshot wounds, while the remaining six were hit by fragments, according to New York Police Commissioner Ray Kelly. All injuries were caused by police, he said Saturday.
One officer shot nine rounds and another shot seven.
Police identified the gunman as Jeffrey Johnson, 58, who was apparently laid off from his job as a designer of women’s accessories at Hazan Import Co. last year.
Johnson, who served in the U.S. Coast Guard in the mid-1970s, had two rounds left in his pistol. ”
.
Sure the school coach is going to do better against an AR15 than the cops did against the pistol .
“Adam Gruler, an Orlando police officer working security for Pulse nightclub that night, traded gunshots with the gunman, Omar Mateen, near the club’s entrance….
Trump, the presumptive GOP nominee for president, made his claim during a campaign rally in Atlanta on June 15. He said the U.S. needs to accept immigrants who “don’t want to destroy us, that don’t want to go to a club where you have innocent people, and where you had no guns on the other side.” He said that someone at the club shooting back at Mateen could have prevented at least some of the deaths of the 49 people killed. ”
.
Just another incompetent cop . If he were a coach he would know how to hit the target . If the coach cant do it maybe the principal.
I guess the rest of the the g20 has better shots . That must be it .
LikeLike
What’s next? Playgrounds ringed with watch towers?! There really is no need to enter most schools if you are intent on killing children in large numbers. I don’t find any comfort in the off chance that an armed teacher or security guard might get a lucky shot off before a shooter gets “too many.”
LikeLike
Bingo , Put a hundred guns in the school and the school bus becomes the target ,the school yard , football field ……
LikeLike
Don’t forget the crossing guards, bus drivers, school secretaries, nurses, and custodians. They need guns too! Did I miss anyone?
LikeLike
What do you mean, “What’s next?”
Well, you arm the children on the playground.
But it’ll be just fine as long asyou FIRST provide training to them.
Problem solved, Marco Rubio . . . .
I say arm surgeons in case a patient wakes up on the operating table all angry and changes their mind about the surgery.
Arm priests in the confessional booth, nurses in the pediatric ICU, senior citizens during adaptive yoga in wheel chairs in nursing homes, volunteer actors in a Christmas or Easter reenactment, and Broadway chorus dancers in the middle of a performance of Cats.
Arm Jaque Pepin while he is taping an episode of how to prepare a gruyere souffle.
You never know when some psycho is going to appear and you have to be ready to defend yourself. Right?
LikeLike
Norwegian: The NRA would LOVE your suggestions. They promote at least one gun, preferably, more for everyone. In fact, there should be a contest of some sort to see who in the US can purchase the most guns in one month. The winner would get an automatic rifle to use on his neighbors whose dog might shit on his lawn. It would be a double win if the neighbor and his wife were also killed.
LikeLike
I stood outside a boys locker room door listening to a coach scream at a student and punch lockers. My daughter’s coaches routinely broke clipboards and anything they could throw during their temper tantrums on the court. They should not carry a gun. Why are we resorting to stereotypes of masculinity to rationalize this issue? We will get the big burly guys in the building to fix this issue for us? Did we ask them how they feel about that? Also, we already have armed police officers in all of our buildings in my district. A lot of good that does us when high schools are the size of community colleges and warehouse thousands of students. How will the officers navigate traffic through the halls in time to save a life when everyone is running in the opposite direction? How many retired police and military have PTSD?
I completed my administration internship with a retired Army Major, who was an MP / worked in intelligence, and is now an AD of a local high school. I asked him these tough questions and he was emphatic that arming teachers is a bad idea: 1) no way to guarantee being in the right place at the right time 2) training does not simulate fog of war 3) most civilians cannot pull a trigger in the moment 4) low likelihood of hitting a target 5) high likelihood of hitting someone else 6) people running through shot 7) adrenaline causes the body to shake 8) teachers have to carry even during circle time 9) teachers will be overpowered to gain control of the weapon 10) students will break into desks to gain control of the weapon 11) students will threaten to harm other students to gain control of the weapon 12) accidents and misfires 13) cost of implementation 14) cost of liability insurance and law suits 15) teacher snaps and pulls a gun on a kid. Metal detectors are ineffective due to user error, students can walk around them, they are slow, kids can pass weapons through windows, plastics can be used as weapons, and students can lay in wait outside without ever entering the building.
Instead, what works are gun-free zone laws, spot checks, well written school policy and hardline discipline (not the same thing as zero tolerance). Bring in the drug dogs at random intervals, listen and follow-up on all student complaints/threats/bullying, exercise probable cause to search. Create vertical policies and disciple plans across the district. These steps cast a broad net to learn of potential issues, find and confiscate weapons. Then as weapons are seized, use the school policy and federal/state/local laws to prosecute and expel. We found guns in cars this way, pulled knives and razors off students, found a hollowed out book with a switchblade, etc. Form a hard line on truancy, develop relationships with law enforcement and the DA to weed out dangerous students. Call home or meet with parents with every concern, monitor social networks for activity. If the school community knows you listen and act, you will be more likely to learn of issues before they arise. Too many admins go though the motions with discipline and don’t run a tight ship. They send kids back to class or ISS because they are too busy to follow up. Restructure admin teams to establish a dedicated disciplinarian. And never, ever, deviate away from well-crafted, written school policy. These steps will go a long way to solving issues in the building. Now we need politicians to step up and help us solve issues in the community.
LikeLike
My English is not so good, since I have been in this country for only 3 decades. But I could swear, he says in this video at 10 second “a teacher would have a concealed gun on them”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvk0qZYV65w
LikeLike
You are right again Diane -bad idea arming teachers. And I hope teacher investment funds are not buying stocks in the gun making industry-another very bad idea. Lots of ideas out there. My idea is repeal 2nd amendment. The country doesn’t derive any good from the amendment. And another idea is tie membership in the NRA to questionable mental health-especially for teachers and school principals. Lots of ideas Diane. Just think of the peace and sanity the Scots have knowing that there is safety in their schools!
Best wishes, Bill Murphy Dunedin, Fl
Sent from my iPad
>
LikeLike
I read some comments that said Trump wanted teachers to pack a gun. I DuckDuckGo’d it and came up with this article.
This is one of the stupidest ideas that our lame-brained lunatic president has ever come up with. I can envision a huge shootout in which more kids are killed. Teachers are not trained killers and never will be. The chaos of some crazed person shooting is not the time to learn that the teacher with a gun doesn’t know what he/she is doing. Trump received $21 million from the NRA. They bought out our Dear Leader. It blinds him to the fact that our problem is way too many guns. Guess our solution is to send all of our children to Australia. Their government bought back guns and passed strict gun laws.
…………….
Trump: Teachers Carrying Concealed Guns Could Prevent Future Attacks
President Donald Trump said that he is “strongly considering” allowing teachers to carry concealed firearms could help prevent mass shootings in schools like the one last week in Florida.
Trump made the comments Wednesday during a listening session at the White House with survivors of the mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla. Nikolas Cruz, a former student at the school, allegedly used an AR-15 semi-automatic assault rifle to kill 17 students and educators.
“This would obviously only be for people very adept at handling a gun,” Trump said. “It’s called concealed carry, where a teacher would have a concealed gun on them, they’d go for special training, and they would be there and you would no longer have a gun-free zone.”
http://fortune.com/2018/02/21/trump-teacher-conceal-carry-guns/
LikeLike
Nothing stops a bad guy with a gun better than that bad guy never ever having access to that gun .
LikeLike
Agreed.
A frightening thought just occurred to me: in my fifteen years teaching at my current school, I’ve taught at least 15 budding psychopaths who’ve clashed angrily with all school authorities (current estimates are that 1-2% of the population is psychopathic). Some of those psychopaths lurk menacingly in the community still. EVERY public school has psychopath grads with unfond memories of constant clashes with school authorities. EVERY psychopath knows about Parkland now, and I bet more than a handful are entertaining the thought of visiting similar spite on their alma maters. Schools, it seems to me, are more likely targets than grocery stores or post offices because of the turbulent history each psychopath has with them.
LikeLike
I LOVE how people are fighting back at the stupidity of the NRA and the stupidity of Congress people who have been bought out.
………………………
From The New York Times:
Marco Rubio and N.R.A. Jeered on Gun Stance
Senator Rubio and a spokeswoman for the N.R.A. were repeatedly heckled after they refused to back new gun control measures.
“My daughter, running down the hallway, was shot in the back with an assault weapon, the weapon of choice,” Mr. Guttenberg said during the forum as Mr. Rubio stood stone-faced. “It is too easy to get. It is a weapon of war. The fact that you can’t stand with everybody else in this room and say that, I’m sorry.”
The room erupted in applause for Mr. Guttenberg and repeatedly booed as Mr. Rubio sought to explain his opposition to a proposed assault weapons ban. The bill, he said, is riddled with loopholes that would make it easy for criminals to get around.
“First, you have to define what it is. It basically bans 220 specific models of gun,” Mr. Rubio said, prompting applause from the audience.
He continued, saying that the bill also allows for “2,000 other types” of guns that operate the same way but are not classified as assault weapons.
Ms. Loesch repeatedly deflected questions about restrictions on the availability of guns, insisting instead that keeping guns out of the hands of the mentally ill or people with criminal records would keep students safe.
“I don’t believe that this insane monster should have ever been able to obtain a firearm, ever,” Ms. Loesch told Emma González, a senior at the high school. “None of us support people who are crazy, who are a danger to themselves, who are a danger to others, getting their hands on a firearm.”
But her answers prompted angry taunts from the audience. At times, Ms. Loesch struggled to answer, but she steadfastly refused to back down on the N.R.A.’s position opposing new gun restrictions…
LikeLike
I hope Florida votes for Nelson over Scott for state senator. Otherwise, Florida’s senators will be Rubio and Scott. We may as well hire the NRA to run the state.
LikeLike
No need to hire, they done bought it a long time ago.
LikeLike
[This is a video from the NYT. You do not have to be a subscriber to listen to the video. Just click on the link.]
I couldn’t listen to Trump talk. He makes me sick. His ignorance is overwhelming.
Teachers are never going to be killers and we certainly aren’t SWAT teams. It is a cheap response from someone who has been bought out by the NRA. I’m proud of those teenagers and their parents who aren’t putting up with this nonsense.
…….
Trump Says Arming Teachers ‘Could Solve Your Problem’
VIDEO: Trump Says Arming Teachers ‘Could Solve Your Problem’
By WHITEHOUSE.GOV
At a listening session with grieving parents and school-shooting victims, including students from Stoneman Douglas High School in Florida, President Trump suggested teachers should be allowed to carry firearms.
LikeLike
Takes a special kind of person to talk to a survivor of a massacre, get accused of being bought by the NRA, and then using incident to both attack the probe of your own wrongdoing as well well as advance an NRA position.
Throw the bums out!
LikeLike
‘Nothing stops a bad guy with a gun better than that bad guy never ever having access to that gun .'”Joel Herman (@jwherman11)”
This is the comment that should have been made from the U.S. Secretary of Education. Betsy Devos was there to advocate on behalf of all public school students, teachers and support staff. You do need a background in education to know gun control needs to happen ASAP.
LikeLike
I have been finger printed three times for teaching jobs to facilitate background checks by the state police. Wouldn’t it be reasonable to require at least that much of gun owners?
LikeLike
speduktr: Years ago when I wanted to sub in Chicago, I had to be fingerprinted and take a proficiency test. Guess teachers are more of a threat than a person with an automatic rifle.
LikeLike
Yup. I was fingerprinted twice in Cook County and once in Lake. Since the prints were always sent to the state police, I wondered if they thought my “new” prints would change the info that popped up.
LikeLike
Proudly fingerprinted and urine tested by the NYC Dept of Education!
LikeLike
Sorry —-You do NOT need a background in education to know gun control needs to happen ASAP.
LikeLike
Check your state laws. I was fingerprinted for the background check when I purchased my handgun.
LikeLike
Part of this debate must include toxic masculinity and the role of guns in making insecure men feel powerful. This is an issue of self-esteem but also, I believe embedded deeply in the DNA of Western males who have used guns to subjugate others for centuries. There are also aspects of penis extension, violent ideation and irrational fear of “the other” involved, which firearms marketers used throughout the Obama era despite the fact that he was completely ineffective on gun control.
Our violent movies and video games don’t help, but also the prevalence of shows in recent years like HBO’s The Sopranos or FX’s Sons of Anarchy where bad guys who kill and maim are the “relatable” protagonists and the cops are the bad guys.
Combine this with corrupt NRA pay-for-play and model ALEC legislation like “Stand Your Ground” and we have a dangerous environment that harkens back to the Wild West, and the winners as always are the weapons makers who sell to both sides of any conflict.
LikeLike
Well said, Jake. Absolutely right.
LikeLike
Horse manure on the psycho-babble of “toxic masculinity” and “penis extension”. What a load of crap.
LikeLike
Sorry Duane, but I don’t see a lot of women gunning down children.
LikeLike
Can’t disagree with you Mamie on that. My comment of the psycho-babble still holds.
LikeLike
It’s maybe psychobabble but connecting guns to penises could work very well. The language will be corrected once guns are outlawed. I allow it till then. 🙂
LikeLike
Psycho-babble it is. Psycho-babble that is no different and just as worthless than any other nonsensical thought. Nothing more and not really worth a second of my thinking.
LikeLike
So now after bashing teachers for years they are now the ones who are supposed to solve this problem just like they have to solve all society’s problems. We can’t even trust teachers to make their own lesson plans for God’s sake. Frankly, I’m sick of being told to huddle in the corner of my classroom and wait to be murdered. These weapons were made for ONE thing and that is to kill human beings. We need to get every single one of them off the street. If you are attached to your assault weapon, ask yourself why. Deep down it probably gives you a false sense of power. If you think you need it to keep “the government” at bay, well, how much of an arsenal would you need for that? And why do you think “the government” is coming for you? I’m sure the majority of teachers out there have told administrators of students they thought were having mental and emotional problems. I’ve done it many times. Contrary to popular belief, teachers are not idiots. They are doing their jobs. They are not the SWAT team and they are not psychiatrists and they are NOT parents of their students. And frankly, as a teacher, I’m sick of being told that it’s my job to solve every societal problem we have. I’ve taught for 26 years. Yes, Zorba. I’ve had it with this merde, too!
LikeLike
“So now after bashing teachers for years they are now the ones who are supposed to solve this problem just like they have to solve all society’s problems. ”
Of course! But now we have to modify the teacher selection process.
Dear English teacher applicant, Joan Belmont,
You have excellent credentials: your GPA is highest possible, the letters of teaching recommendations are the best we have ever seen, you obviously love kids, kids during your trial classroom appearance loved you back without exceptions, you speak clearly, enthusiastically, you are funny, make kids laugh and happy, you make your subject and the classroom boil with excitement. But we have to turn you down: your shooting with various assault weapons is only at the Marine level, which is only our basic level, and in hand to hand combat, you could handle only two simultaneous perpetrators but not three or more professional attackers. As you are well aware, unlike our Marines who mostly fight on open battle field, your job requires to protect civilian children in the most difficult classroom setting, and hence you cannot just perform at the Marine level, but, as a minimum, you need to reach the School Teacher 1 level in fighting, though we prefer our applicants to be at School Teacher 3 or higher level.
Perhaps, we can recommend that you apply for the personal bodyguard position for the US president. This position has just opened up, and your fighting skills far exceeds the requirements there.
LikeLike
Come on, guys, give Trump credit when credit is due. Here is the scenario our president is thinking of. The only change that needs to be made to Trump’s idea is to arm the teacher with an AR 15 too, since she cannot effectively fight an AR 15 with a pistol.
The gunman enters the classroom, and starts shooting with his AR 15. Dodging bullets is part her training, so the well trained English teacher easily moves out of the path of the flying bullets, runs to the cabinet where she keeps her AR 15. She calmly and quickly unlocks the cabinet, gets the gun out, aims it at the gunman and starts shooting. Her training enables our hero teacher not just to aim accurately under any circumstances, but she can also make sure the bullets exiting the perpetrators body will hit only a small number of kids in her classroom or kids who may be behind the classroom walls in the adjacent classroom or the corridor. These kinds of considerations to avoid killing innocents are part of any security training.
In my calculation, a well trained teacher can start shooting within 10 seconds, which allows the gunman to kill at most 10 kids before he goes down, and the teacher will kill, on average, 2 kids. That’s not 17, only 12 children! So you see, with our president’s simple and entirely viable plan, we could have reduced the number of victims in Florida by 5 which is almost 30%!
So I really do not see what people here are complaining about: our genius president has not just solved the problems with school mass shootings but he pleased the all important gun lobby too, since people can keep their assault weapons and other war armors to protect their families from criminals and the government.
LikeLike
I don’t think Mark Twain could have written it out better. From one of the other “civilized” nations on the planet – our view of the gun fetish has long amazed us. The mythologies and murder rates that prop it up still maintain their stranglehold on the population, pro and con.
A teacher packing a piece is just one more actor in the drama – the one where violence solves everything.
How does this play out? When a child can be suspended and sent home for shouting bang bang you’re dead in the schoolyard playground, but the real thing is ever present in his classroom?
LikeLike
Here are five places hypocritical Republicans ban guns in order to ensure their own personal safety.
**The White House… Trump has not spoken out once—even via his digital bullhorn at Twitter—against the anti-freedom gun ban at the White House.
**The Republican National Convention..the Republican National Convention is a gun-free zone. Guns were banned at the RNC in 2008, 2012 and 2016/
** Mar-a-Lago…A staffer told ABC News back in 2016 that guns were banned from Trump’s Palm Beach golf property. “Pocket knives, laser pointers, pepper spray, and any other items deemed to be a safety hazard are not permitted on property,” a letter the club sent to members cautioned. “Any items surrendered will not be returned.”
**The U.S. Capitol Building…Guns are banned on the Capitol grounds and inside the building itself, which includes the House and Senate galleries. Visitors are also warned against bringing “black jacks, slingshots, sand clubs, sandbags, knuckles, electric stun guns, knives (longer than 3”), martial arts weapons or devices…razors, box cutters, knives, knitting needles, letter openers…mace and pepper spray.”
**Republican Town Halls…In fact, as Talking Points Memo notes, “guns are frequently prohibited at GOP congressional town hall meetings, especially after the shooting of former Rep. Gabrielle Giffords in 2011. Even stalwart conservatives like Rep. Paul Ryan and former Rep. Allen West opted to ban firearms at their town halls.”
LikeLike
“Here are five places hypocritical Republicans ban guns in order to ensure their own personal safety.
**The White House… Trump has not spoken out once—even via his digital bullhorn at Twitter—against the anti-freedom gun ban at the White House.”
Come on. This policy is easy to defend: we only have one president, but 50 million school children. We cannot afford to lose that one president, while even losing a few hundred school children a year, won’t make a dent on their numbers, hence schools are excellent places to try out various security methods.
People, before you make an argument, please consider statistics and other scientific methods. This is the 21st century, not the unenlightened sixteen hundreds.
LikeLike
I could not have said this better.
Something that’s being left out of this conversation:
It’s not just schools.
Orlando
Las Vegas
Etc
NRA isn’t responding to the crisis. It’s creating it.
LikeLiked by 1 person
The NRA is the Pro-Death Lobby.
LikeLike
Guns ‘n’ Butter. Spread that on all the bread made from sale and proliferation. Strangely, one of the few well manufactured items that can claim American identity. Too many related industrial profiteers in all of this, lining up like poor cousins outside the lottery winner’s house.
But I hope the kids don’t quit. It is their voices that need to ring across the land. And shame their elders.
LikeLike
the NRA is surely heavily involved in pushing the “give teachers guns” solution — imagine the amount of money gun producers and sellers might extract from a district, a city, a STATE.
LikeLike
OK, so if we’re going to arm teachers, then we should first provide them with some high-caliber training…
PROFESSIONAL LEARNING DAY
Localtown School
8:00-8:30 Coffee and donuts
8:30-10:00 Assessments: Formative, Summative, and Threat
Presenter: Mr. James Bond
10:00-12:00 Aim for Accuracy—Aiming with the Left Hand while Writing on the Board with the RightPresenter: Ms. Annie Oakley
Luncheon Speaker:
Principal W. Bill Hickock: Seating Charts–Never Sit with Your Back to the Door
Lunch today is provided by Mr. Rick O’Shay of the NRA
1:00-2:00 Under the Gun—Coping with the Stress of Raising Test Scores, Teaching the Full Curriculum, Meeting State, Local, and National Standards, Enhancing Student Self-esteem, and Shooting Straight During Emergencies
Mr. George A. Custer, Guidance Counselor
2:00-3:00 Your Classroom Arsenal: How to Store Weapons and Bullet- proof Backpacks in a Kindergarten Classroom Presenter: Mr. John Dillinger
3:00-3:15 Target practice
3:15 -4:00 Closing remarks: Never Underestimate the Stupidity of American Politicians Presenter: Mr. P. T. Barnum
LikeLike
Where can I sign up? I am a college prof, not a school teacher, but I want to be prepared.
LikeLike
You said it perfectly
LikeLike
The notion that military weaponry can be sold under the guise of the second amendment is utterly ridiculous. Those weapons are sold for one purpose, to murder people. No other country in the world sells military weapons to private citizens. And now Trump wants to continue the sale of guns for the NRA by arming teachers with a hidden 45, like that is going to do any good against an assault weapon.
Trump was not listening at yesterday’s meeting, he wants to play both sides from the middle. He knows this student movement is the next wave of voters for 2020, but he still would like another $30 million from the NRA for the next election.
Please tell, what was Betsy DeVos grinning about throughout the horror of each child’s story? I don’t understand these facial expressions of people in this administration. Sara Huckabee Sanders always looks like she is smelling bad tuna!
LikeLike
DeVos always has a smirk or a grin. That is her condescending default facial expression. I interpret it to mean “I am a multibillionaire and you are not.”
LikeLike
And yet they expected the lone security guard to enter the building and confront the shooter. I am assuming he was not armed with a comparable weapon. Taking a defensive position outside may have been a better choice tactically than racing into the building to get mowed down. I’ not sure I can blame him for his choice.
LikeLike
I just posted this comment on the NYT and it got accepted. Guess they got my ‘humor’.
……
President Trump now wants teachers to carry guns. What a great idea! [I’m a retired teacher.] I say, “Let’s go further with this idea.” The NRA needs to have a contest and there are two categories. First, the adult who purchases the most firearms in one month would get a prize. The prize would be 5 automatic rifles and a lifetime supply of ammunition. Second: the school that arms the most children will get a gold-plated AR-15 to put in the hall glass case. It would shine there along with all the football trophies.
Why not give out awards for people who get up the gumption to shoot at passing cars or give more awards for people who shoot neighborhood dogs. There are limitless possibilities for NRA approved awards. One should be given to President Trump for his work in wanting teachers to carry guns. What a magnificent idea. It is cheap and will guarantee that more and more crazies will get killed. The fact that children will die will be a point of honor. They gave their lives for a great cause.
LikeLike
This comes from the Scientific American. Trump and too many in the GOP don’t believe in science so this mention of different research studies would have no effect.
…………
More Guns Do Not Stop More Crimes, Evidence Shows
The claim that gun ownership stops crime is common in the U.S., and that belief drives laws that make it easy to own and keep firearms. But about 30 careful studies show more guns are linked to more crimes: murders, rapes, and others. Far less research shows that guns help. Interviews with people in heavily gun-owning towns show they are not as wedded to the crime defense idea as the gun lobby claims.
More firearms do not keep people safe, hard numbers show. Why do so many Americans believe the opposite?
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/more-guns-do-not-stop-more-crimes-evidence-shows/
LikeLike
”These people are not just stupid and clueless, they have lost any moral boundaries, if they ever had any.”
Exactly, Zorba!
LikeLike
I’m sure that those who propose such idiocies such as having teachers armed have never been confronted by someone with a loaded and ready weapon. I say from experience that the amount of adrenaline flowing makes it highly unlikely that a teacher would be able to hit the broad side of a barn from the inside at that point.
Only in gun-loving America does one find such idiocies. But then, hey, it’s our death and destruction culture shining through.
LikeLike
This just came out from the WH. Trump knows what is best for this country and ‘this time we will get it right’. This should make everyone feel SO much better especially since now ‘every voice will be heard’. Trump, Pence and DeVos are ones to believe since they are very knowledgeable. I especially like Trump’s sensible idea to arm teachers.
…………………
After Parkland, President Trump demands that we get it right.
Hearing every voice
President Donald J. Trump, Vice President Mike Pence, and Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos sat down yesterday afternoon with a large group of students, teachers, and community leaders to discuss how America must improve safety at schools across the country.
The meeting drew numerous participants from the Parkland, Florida, community. For much of the afternoon, students led the discussion. Fifteen-year-old Justin Gruber reminded attendees that 19 years ago, one of America’s most high-profile mass school shootings happened at Columbine High School. “I was born into a world where I never got to experience safety and peace,” he said.
That needs to change. President Trump has pledged more than just action—he has committed his Administration to finding real, workable solutions to end the violence. “It’s not going to be talk like it has been in the past,” the President told students and families yesterday. “It’s been going on too long. . . . We’re going to get it done.”
That starts with making sure that every voice is heard.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/parkland-president-trump-demands…
LikeLike
Duane, agreed.
LikeLike
Ok. So Trump says that we can’t hire enough security to keep schools “safe.” So, teachers should carry concealed and they will get a bonus and “they will love that bonus.” Those money hungry teachers will be happy to get whatever crumb bonus is handed out for carrying a weapon. What happens if a teacher shoots and kills an innocent student or other person? Sorry, Mr. Trump, but unlike you who can shoot someone on 5th Avenue and not lose any voters, a teacher will be held responsible for this. It is completely insane.
LikeLike
Mamie: “Mr. Trump, but unlike you who can shoot someone on 5th Avenue and not lose any voters, a teacher will be held responsible for this. It is completely insane.”
………
Good point. Any teacher who shot a kid would live with that trauma for the rest of his/her life. It is doubtful that Trump feels any compassion or love for anyone. It is part of his narcissism and mental instability. He probably could shoot someone and would put the blame on his victim. He never does anything wrong and everything negative that happens is always someone else’s fault.
LikeLike
I wonder why Trump hasn’t called out for praise for these brave immigrants? HA. They only rape, kill and bring drugs says our bigoted, hate-filled leader.
……….
Immigrant teen credited with saving lives of at least 20 of his fellow Parkland students
By Gabe Ortiz
Wednesday Feb 21, 2018 · 12:23 PM CST
Fifteen-year-old Anthony Borges is being credited with saving the lives of at least 20 of his fellow Marjory Stoneman Douglas High classmates. His friend said the two hid as soon as they heard shots, but that Borges “took the initiative to just save his other classmates.” He was shot five times in the process, through both legs and his back, according to a fundraising page. Borges and his family are all immigrants originally from Venezuela:
Moved by the Florida student’s actions, U.S. soccer player Landon Donovan rallied his soccer fans to donate to help the teenager’s family.
“One of our own was a hero last week and needs our help,” Donovan wrote on his Twitter account.
Borges’ GoFundMe had raised more than $446,000 as of Tuesday afternoon from nearly 14,000 donations. The legitimacy of the fundraising page was confirmed by the Broward County Sheriff’s Office.
The hospital says it can’t release any details on his condition. It says only that he and three other injured victims from the shooting recovering at Broward Health hospitals are all in “fair condition.” The Sheriff’s Office says that he “has a long road ahead with more surgeries needed.”
Borges isn’t the only immigrant youth being hailed as a hero during those horrific moments at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High. Martin Duque, a Mexican immigrant and cadet in the school’s Junior Reserve Officers’ Training Corps program, is being presented with the Medal of Heroism by the United States Army, an honor awarded to a JROTC cadet “who performs an act of heroism.” Martin, only 14-years-old, was killed.
snewsi.com/id/18169885829
LikeLike
I have a FB account (Facebook, Duane) 😉
There’s no shortage of NRA supporters out there, sneering at demands and pleas for stricter gun control. I even had one guy tell me that the AR-15 is a civilian downgrade of the military version. He said nothing more than a “varmint killer”.
I know it’s not quite the “real deal”, but a varmint killer? I sent him this link:
https://www.google.com.mx/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/think/amp/ncna848346
No reply.
Then I got this from another guy:
“You completely overlook the reason for the second amendment. It was not created to protect ducks unlimited, or any other sporting group, it was highly placed in the Bill of rights because a free society can only remain free so long as the people can defend it from those who would overthrow the govenment and establish themselves as dictator or king. The people must remain well armed and ready to defend liberty.”
This is, to me, the essence of what we’re dealing with, here. And when they talk about those who would overthrow the government:
https://youtu.be/PrnIVVWtAag
Please tell me I’ve nothing to worry about.
LikeLike
gitapik: My brother has a gun and he says that the military is storing up food so that at some time in the future they will come out and start shooting people. He is ready for that by having a gun to protect his family.
That is very short-minded thinking since a hand gun would be no match against the full force of the artillery the military possesses. BUT, it shows what we are up against. He lives in Idaho, a very red state.
I remember visiting and reading a column in the Idaho Daily Statesman written by a proud gun owner. He felt very proud when he would enter grocery stores (or any common store) and people would visibly see his gun.
Makes one proud, doesn’t it??????????????????????????????????????? I’d call him a macho A** hole.
How does one fight this garbage?
LikeLike
“I know it’s not quite the “real deal”, but a varmint killer?”
So the 17 people killed in Florida were varmints.
LikeLike
Gee, I thought that’s why the USA has an army for . . . in case there is a coup and some king or dictator wants to take over. The army would be there to defend the USA against such a takeover. Now this gal is saying that we need guns to do the same? Why pay taxes for a militia?
LikeLike
These idiots think they could fight the US military with their AR 15s?
How stupid can people be?
I shouldn’t say that as I have two close family members who are equally dumb.
LikeLike
Totally agree with you, Diane. It’s absurd.
That’s why I’m beginning to think that the end goal is to intimidate and, if necessary, subjugate liberals, progressives, or anyone else who they disagree with BEFORE they are in positions of political power.
That would be a lot easier than taking on the Marines.
That Dana Loesch ad is one example of who they’re targeting.
LikeLike
It’s staggering the number of “preppers” stockpiling arms and supplies in anticipation of martial law (or something else – Armageddon, the rapture, or indictment of Trump..).
Listening to RW talk radio, you’ll hear ads for vacuum sealed meals that last 25 year, water purifiers and of course guns and ammo. This is not just a fringe movement, it’s a large subculture feeding off fearmongering and hatemongering that encourages violence by threatening “2nd Amendment remedies”.
LikeLike
These are the first people whose guns should be taken away without delay, since they show obvious signs of dangerous signs of derangement.
LikeLike
I couldn’t agree more. And they have the full support of our “president”.
I mentioned to him that the 2nd calls for a “well regulated militia” and that what he’s talking about is guerrilla warfare. His reply:
“You don’t get to choose the world you live in. You can either prepare for world as it is or pay a huge price for being unprepared”
I told him to at least be real and stop quoting the 2nd if that’s where he’s coming from.
LikeLike
“These idiots think they could fight the US military with their AR 15s?
How stupid can people be?”
I am not sure this is simple stupidity. It’s more childish: they firmly believe in fairy tales where dragons and other gigantic creatures are killed by the tiny pretty prince.
LikeLike
This is a stop-gap measure when the real problem is TOO MANY GUNS ARE IN THE WHOLE COUNTRY! We need a buy-back program like Australia did and some serious control gun legislation. I can imagine the outcry from the NRA on buying back guns.
………………………
Bullied by the Badge Thousands of police officers are now stationed inside public schools. What does this mean for students
Police Officers In Schools Mean More Referrals To Law Enforcement
What happens after a student breaks the rules? The presence of a school resource officer (SRO) makes it more likely that a school will refer him or her to local law enforcement, which can lead to a criminal record…
Since the 1990s, at least 11 states have enacted legislation that funnels state funds into school policing programs. Four states — Mississippi, Indiana, Florida and Pennsylvania — passed such legislation in 2013, in the months after the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut.
The combined result has been a dramatic increase in the number of schools with security officers. In 1997, police patrolled only 10 percent of public schools in America. Almost twenty years later, the new normal is 30 percent….
Studies examining whether schools become safer by having police officers on campus have produced conflicting results, according to a June 2013 Congressional Research Service report produced in response to Sandy Hook. Schools with sworn law enforcement officers were more likely to be patrolled, investigate student crime leads and possess emergency plans. But the research “does not address whether SRO programs deter school shootings, one of the key reasons for renewed congressional interest in these programs,” the report said.
And many parents, community members and civil rights activists say the presence of police officers inside classrooms does more harm than good. They complain that officers routinely punish children for small infractions and, in some cases, treat acts that parents categorize as “typical teenage behavior” like criminal activity…
data.huffingtonpost.com/2016/school-police/mississippi
LikeLike
Generally, I’m against teachers packing heat. I’ll make an exception in the case for young Trump’s 2nd grade music teacher. If she had overreacted our country wouldn’t have an IDIOT for president. That, however, is the only time a teacher should have had a gun.
Here’s what Donald Trump wrote in his 1987 book, “The Art of the Deal“:
“Even in elementary school, I was a very assertive, aggressive kid. In the second grade I actually gave a teacher a black eye. I punched my music teacher because I didn’t think he knew anything about music and I almost got expelled. I’m not proud of that, but it’s clear evidence that even early on I had a tendency to stand up and make my opinions known in a forceful way.”
LikeLike
I think I am really in the Twilight Zone. Forget the school supplies, get teachers guns!!! Years ago I remember an episode of “All in the Family” where Archie Bunker’s answer to the recurrent high-jacking was to arm all of the passengers on the flight. That was written as satire-now it is reality?? What? When I thought I had seen just about everything from this guy-people actually support this? Unbelievable.
LikeLike
Andy Griffith explains why carrying a gun is not a good idea—even for a police officer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Fer9ql7itc
LikeLike
Why I will never carry a gun in my classroom
By Victoria Barrett
23 February 2018 — 12:00pm
…If this student had shown up with a weapon determined to harm us, what would my responsibility have been? Talk? De-escalate? Beg? Run? It seems clear that under any policy that arms teachers, it would be my responsibility to shoot my student dead. This creates more problems than it solves. If I miss or fail to fire and he murders the other students, can their loved ones sue me? What if my shot ricochets and hurts or kills one of them? What if his gun turns out to be a walkie-talkie, a misidentification that happened outside my campus’s library last year, and I shoot my student dead for possession of an unusual electronic device? In these scenarios, some more outlandish than others, teachers become soldiers, and schools become liable when students aren’t protected in such circumstances as a shooting.
But legal liability isn’t the reason I will never carry a firearm into a classroom. If it’s my responsibility to shoot someone to protect 25 others, I will have been drafted unwillingly into an ideological army to protect the rights of some civilians to own and operate military-style weapons. And I will not be conscripted.
The National Rifle Association has been accelerating and expanding the ideological warfare it wages on behalf of gun manufacturers for decades. Once legitimately a member-driven organization focusing on service and safety, it is now devoted to lobbying on the part of gun manufacturers. Because guns last a long time and are often kept and passed down, there’s only one way to support the continued manufacture and sale of guns: by rebranding them as fetish properties to collect and own with pride. That is how we come to a situation in which 3 percent of Americans own half of the guns in the United States, with collections averaging 17 guns per owner, and individuals frequently owning 40-plus guns, as reported by the Guardian newspaper. Add in a load of specialized and controversial accessories like bump stocks and silencers, and you have a business that can stay solvent for a little longer.
Another way to boost sales? Arm teachers. The Department of Education counts roughly 100,000 schools in the United States. The number of classrooms varies, of course. A gun in each one looks like a very profitable bulk order….Our job is to teach; the job of legislators is to pass laws that serve the public. None of us are required to entertain a “solution” to school shootings that only stands to serve the interests of the gun lobby, not our students.
https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/why-i-will-never-carry-a-gun-in-my-classroom-20180223-p4z1fl.html
LikeLike