After an overnight stopover at my son’s home in Los Angeles, we flew Cathay Pacific to Hong Kong then transferred to a flight to Ho Chi Minh City. When we exited the airport, the crowds were in the thousands, apparently families waiting for loved ones. It was a chaotic, noisy, but peaceable and happy scene.
After almost 24 continuous hours of travel, we checked into our hotel, the Park Hyatt, which is very beautiful. The city is teeming. The population is about 13 Million. We decided to go on a Jeep tour of the city at night. There were six in our party, and we traveled in two Jeeps. The Jeeps, the guide said, were American vehicles left behind at the end of the war. Sturdy, heavy metal, a top made of camouflage canvas (furled up, it’s hot here, in the high 80s, and the peak of their tourist season.).
About the name of the city. It was Saigon until the war ended, and it was renamed Ho Chi Minh City. People use the names interchangeably.
Saigon-HMC is booming. The government is socialist but the economy is capitalist. Commerce is the life blood of the city. In addition to countless small indigenous shops, there are fancy western stores.
The traffic is other-worldly. The streets are filled with motor scooters, cars, and buses. The air pollution is horrible, and it is not uncommon to see people on scooters wearing face masks. There are more motor scooters than anything else, and they weave in and out of the other vehicles. Riding in the Jeep, I was tempted to close my eyes a few times for fear of a collision, which never happened. The motor bikers, most with two riders, were utterly heedless and bold. Add to the mass havoc on the streets the overflowing sidewalks, bars, cafes. This is a very busy city. HMC at night reminded me of Bourbon Street in New Orleans, times 10, and stretching for miles, not just a few blocks.
The Jeep tour took us first to a rooftop restaurant for a Vietnamese meal. The views were staggering. HMC has a large number of high-rise buildings, many of which are illuminated with undulating and beautiful neon lighting. After dinner we went to one of those high-rise buildings, which has a rooftop bar, spotlights, and a rooftop swimming pool. The background music was American pop songs.
There are cranes everywhere in the central city. New office buildings, new residences. A thriving middle class and even a wealthy elite.
This is what I learned about the education system. Schooling is free for the first five years. After that, families must pay. Superior students receive scholarships. About 52% of the children of high school age attend school.
Tomorrow I will meet with the president of a local university, American style. I’m looking forward to learning more about this beautiful country.
One other thing: I feel deeply ashamed of our war here. One of the guides said today that his parents taught him to look forward, not back. I have vivid memories of that terrible time. I feel awful about the lives lost on both sides. I grieve for all those who died. I am not able to forget what we did here.

“This is what I learned about the education system. Schooling is free for the first five years. After that, families must pay. Superior students receive scholarships.”
We take our public school system for granted, and kick it around like an old pest that we tired of a long time ago. But flawed as it may be, it’s a marvelous thing.
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I’ll give a secular Amen to that, FLERP!
Hydrate, Diane, hydrate!!
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FLERP,
YES indeed: “We take our public school system for granted, and kick it around like an old pest that we tired of a long time ago. But flawed as it may be, it’s a marvelous thing.”
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FLERP!,
Indeed: “We take our public school system for granted, and kick it around like an old pest that we tired of a long time ago. But flawed as it may be, it’s a marvelous thing.”
I love PUBLIC SCHOOLS & PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHERS!
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Atlanta school board members were sworn in Monday, this week. A state court judge administered to them the school systems’ Oath of Office. They swore by the oath to “be governed by the public good and the interests of said school system.” Just prior to administering the oath, the judge said: “I can tell you, today we swear in the people who have one of the most important jobs in this country, and that is educating the best and the brightest of our young people.”
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educating the best and the brightest of our young people.”
and forget the rest?–the 95%?
what an idiotic statement It is as bad/ comparable to the mission of the official US Department since September 2007–
USDE Mission September 12, 2007. Despite the growth of the Federal role in education, the Department never strayed far from what would become its official mission: to promote student achievement and PREPARATION FOR GLOBAL COMPETITIVENESS by fostering educational excellence and ensuring equal access. Last Modified: 09/10/2007
The same mission statement is on the website today. Global Competition is the end-all and be-all mission of public education in the USA.
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“Best and Brightest”
“Best and Brightest”
Often neither
“Pest and whitest”
Bona fider
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yes!
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Ask your guide to take you to a bookstore and buy copies of VN math, science, history etc. texts for K-12. Don’t worry. When I was there in 2012, An entire math sequence cost the equivalent of $10 and weighed little more than oneeeeeeee typical Pearson math with pictures book. It may cost more now.
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Sorry, sticky e key.
Student buy textbooks in VN; they’re printed on cheap, but not flimsy, paper.
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Dear Dr. Ravitch:
The present is the result of the past as well as the foundation for the unknown future.
We cannot just look forward and ignore the past. Most of all, we must do what we know best for the present.
I hope that you and Mary will enjoy your vacation and fulfill your goal in both educational practice and entertainment like to listen or to watch show of Vietnamese traditional (Folk) music in three styles – Northern, Southern, and Middle region of VN (in Vietnamese, it is called: “Dan Ca Ba Mien)
I do not have courage to travel anymore due to a stroke which can recur suddenly.
Have a safe trip and enjoy your vacation.
Lots of love. May
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Diane,
Thank you!
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Ditto!
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If you can get to Dalat, the strawberries are extraordinary, at least 44 yrs ago. Enjoy yr vacation. Grant
Sent from my iPad
>
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Fascinating! Enjoy!!!
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Loved the effort to compare the life of the city with New Orleans. Enjoy, hydrate.
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Good one, Laura!
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Diane, hope you can visit the “War Remnants Museum’ in Ho Chi Minh City. It shows some of our wrong doings.
According to their statistics Quote: “..the US Government mobilized 6.5 million young people who took turns fighting. The total US Force reached 543,400 men… 7,850,000 tons of bombs of all kinds were dropped over Vietnam plus 75,000,000 liters of defoliants-including dioxin-were sprayed over croplands, farmlands, forestlands and villages in the Southern part of this country…Nearly 3 million Vietnamese were killed, and 4 million others injured, according to incomplete figures.”
This comes from a booklet that I got when visiting this museum.
I again once at a later time came to Saigon (Ho Chi Minh City) when on a cruise ship. I was astounded at the welcoming reception that was given. There were dancers welcoming us. It was beautiful!
I love traveling throughout Asia. I wish that people would realize that we are more alike than different and would work to help each other.
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I had a long talk with my hair stylist and she talked about her childhood in Vietnam. I was against the war, publicly opposed it and my heart aches for the people of Vietnam and the armed forces that are suffering from agent orange and war scars. War is never the answer!
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Marian Cruz: “War is never the answer!” I totally agree.
If we spent money helping people instead of continuous killing and destruction, it is possible that life on this planet wouldn’t be so hard for so many.
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Being ashamed of our war there is a normal reaction. I always feel ashamed when I walk through the museum in Cherokee. I know I was not there, but the thought of dragging old people out of their houses and force arching them to Oklahoma makes me sad. Thus I can identify with your feelings about Vietnam.
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The sun never sets on the Brutal Empire.
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It’s a wonder that the Vietnamese don’t hate us for all eternity. We carpet bombed the country, sprayed millions of gallons of liquid toxins all over the landscape and committed massacres in small villages. And what exactly had the North Vietnamese done to us to “deserve” such devastation and destruction? Nothing, absolutely nothing, except to have the “effrontery” to be a communist country. The result of that bloodbath is that Vietnam went communist in spite of all our efforts. We did not achieve anything except massive death and destruction. The really sad part, is that we learned nothing from the disgrace of the Vietnam war.
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I never visited that city when I was there in 1966. In fact, I never visited any city.
Siagon/HMC sounds amazing. Diane, if you never supported that war, there is no reason for you to be ashamed. Our leaders do not represent all of us … just those that voted for them. And LBJ lied about the Tonkin Gulf Incident that he used to justify escalating that war. Just like Bush #2’s lies about WMD in Iraq, more than 70 percent of the Ameican people did not question LBJ’s lie and supported that war in the beginning. By the time the people realized what five presidents had done from Eisenhower to Ford, the support for the war reversed.
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As a combat Vet, I take exception to your last paragraph. I speak 3 dialects of Vietnamese and served with South Vietnamese and Montagnard soldiers in 1968-69. While Christians had a crucifix and Buddhists had a niche with the starving or happy statue, they all had a picture of “uncle Ho” on their wall. Unfortunately, as the war drew to a close they feared for their lives, because of their colabaration with the U.S. Fisherman in the Gulf, Silicon Valley programmers, VA doctors and numerous other Vietnamese Americans who changed their familial name from Nguyen to Winn would agree that their future here is brighter than if they had remained.
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Thank you for your service. When I first started teaching, I was strict to the point of meanness. Over the years, I have completely transformed my methodology in the opposite, kinder, and much more effective, direction. I can’t go back in time and fix the mistakes I made when I was young, to undo the hurt I caused. I have to live with it. But most importantly, I have to learn from my mistakes. We, as a society, have to learn from our mistakes, and we never will if we cannot admit to ourselves that they were mistakes. War is not the answer.
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Bristol Bay,
I didn’t mean to offend you or others who served their country. I meant only to describe my personal reaction. I feel deep sorrow for the role my country played in killing so many of these people. Our country lost, humiliated, and the domino theory collapsed. Big men in DC used others as if they were checkers on a board. David Halberstam wrote a book about “The Best and the Brightest.”
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I am also a combat vet, a former Marine, who served in Vietnam in 1966, and the main reason we should be fighting any war, if they are legit, is so people like Diane and even us are free to express how they feel as an individual.
In fact, (off topic) someone like Trump should not be allowed to run for an elected position of any kind, even toilet scrubber.
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Lloyd, you are a philosopher and I want to be a member of your sect of intelligent common sense.
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Welcome to Ho Chi Minh City Diane! I hope you enjoy your stay here. If you wish to visit an American based international school please feel free to contact me! I am a long-time educator from Massachusetts now the principal of a wonderful little school for Vietnamese students and would welcome the opportunity to share insights of the city from the foreign educator’s view!
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Mary Ann, wish I had known. What a lovely country.
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MaryAnn Bartlett: How wonderful for you to be able to work overseas in an international school in Vietnam. I worked for 8 years at the International School of Kuala Lumpur. Lived in KL for 9 years. Loved the experience!!
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Amen!
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I had a Social Studies teacher in High School that taught us that there is a difference between the economic system and the way the government is run. In other words, you can have capitalism and an authoritarian run government. You can also have socialism and a democratic government….Obviously Vietnam is capitalist and authoritarian.
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China has the same combination. An authoritarian government and a capitalist economy.
Many years ago, I was taught that free markets inevitably brought a free government. We now know this is not true.
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“Of Bombast and Bomb blast”
Small men in DC
Send our sons to war
Said “To keep us free”
But really nothing more
Than compensating smallness
With bombast and with bomb blast
A fabricated tallness
That makes the men feel vast
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Diane, I am an English Language Fellow with the U.S. Department of State in neighboring Laos! I wish you could come visit me here and learn about the education system in this Communist country. Laos is the most-heavily-bombed country in the world. If you visit the COPE Museum here in Vientiane, you’ll learn that the U.S. dumped cluster bombs on the fields of Plain of Jars and along the Ho Chi Minh trail. For 40 years the unexploded ordnance has continued to kill and maim farmers planting rice. In spite of this, people welcome me everywhere I go. They are eager to learn English, they love Americans, and they are the most gracious, hospitable people you can imagine. I think we have an obligation to help development in countries that we had a role in undermining. It’s always humbling for Americans to learn about English language instruction in places most people have never heard of!
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Thanks, Eva. The former Ambassador told me that the Vietnamese people have surprisingly warm feelings for Americans. That has been my experience in the very short time I am here. We should do whatever we can to help the countries where our heavy munitions caused so much danage. He said that the effects of Agent Orange are still felt, still causing cancer and terrible birth defects.
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evaksullivan: “I think we have an obligation to help development in countries that we had a role in undermining.”
Oh how I wish we’d take that responsibility seriously. The US could do so much more to help.
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We also have an obligation not to undermine nations to begin with.
But don’t hold your breath on the latter account.
Too many small men in DC — a veritable Isle of Lilliput.
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What we did here?
We fought a war, which we were lied to about, that we were not allowed to win. By the way Communist China and Communist USSR both helped out North Vietnam.
When were we ever in a war that was not a lie or made under false pretenses.
Only about 40% wanted the Revolutionary War. That was plurality but not a majority. The other two choices were no and ambivalent. Why would anyone chose to be ambivalent about a war that would be fought in their own front yards? It was fought mainly over having to use the Bank of England to get money at interest.
So, the Fed does that to us now. Why?
The War of 1812 never would have happened if we did not have the Revolutionary War. I call it The Revolutionary War Part Deux.
The Civil War also was a war that should not have happened. It was not fought over slavery. Lincoln could have just acknowledged any state’s right to secede by the 10th Amendment. There is nothing in the Constitution that says that the Union must be preserved at all costs. The war never would have happened. Lincoln could have pulled his forces out of Ft. Sumter and Ft. Pickens and anywhere else he may have had his Army in the South.
What is ironic, is the fact that the Constitution calls for the capability to raise armies but not to have a standing army — a standing navy, yes. Even today we should not have a standing army or for that matter the Military Academy at West Point. It should never have exited. Why do we need a standing officer corps without a standing army? But I digress.
The Spanish-American War was also fought under a falsehood. The Naval vessel USS Maine blew up in Havana Harbor and the US blamed Spain for the so-called attack. It was a steamship and one of its boilers just blew up. It WAS NOT attacked by anyone.
So, the major wars of the 18th and 19th Centuries should not have been fought. Not to be outdone the 20th Century follows suit.
WWI: The US people wanted to stay out the conflict. The passenger liner Lusitania left New York headed for England. The people were warned in the New York papers, that going could endanger their lives – they could be torpedoed. Off the coast of Ireland they were hit by one torpedo and sunk. One torpedo is not enough on its own to sink a ship of that size. Secondary explosions caused it to sink. The ship had munitions bound for England, illegally on board and they exploded. The US population was NOT told this for many years. But it was used as an excuse for us to go to this war.
WWII: Some believe that FDR had been told about the so-called surprise attack on Hawaii but did nothing because he wanted into the war against Hitler, even though the US people again, wanted to stay out of it. He had been sending munitions, again, to England illegally.
Nothing he was doing was ending the Great Depression and only winning that war got us out of the depression. WWII, in my opinion, was the last legal war we’ve had.
The Korean War was a United Nations so-called police action that the US was heavily involved with. Why? We should not have been there either!
Now to the Vietnam War. The gulf of Tonkin non-event that turned what was from one of advisors to a fighting war, was a lie. I do have a question. What was a US Naval vessel doing there in the first place if we were there to advise only?
But we were there as a favor to the French, who helped us to win our independence from Great Britain. Of course that debt was paid off in spades by our interventions in WWI and WWII. Yes we were afraid of the Domino effect—one country falls to Communism means that all will fall.
Socialist is a synonym for Communist. Most of SE Asia and Eastern Europe have a Socialistic form of government. So, they were right in that respect. We need not have worried so much about it, though
This Great Red Scare (Communism) was the reason for the Truman Commission Report on Higher Education for Democracy, published in 1947, I believe. Its main goal to produce more college graduates trained in Democracy to combat Communism. In fact it was meant to double the percentage of college graduates by 1969, which it did, again in spades (from 15% up to 35%). This could be why most college professors are liberal and most college graduates are too. Again, this report was unconstitutional. Notice most wars we got into were during Democrat Administrations, until recently.
There were no WMDs in Iraq so we have another lie, for the start of the 21st Century.
Thing is we go to war on false pretenses numerous times in our short history.
They say that War is Hell and it is true.
Atrocities happen in all wars.
We need not apologize for what we did in Vietnam but we do need to not rush into wars at the drop of hat. War is never justifiable.
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Schlitz,
Where did you find polling data for the Revolutionary War?
How do you feel about human slavery?
If we had not entered the Second World War, Hitler would have conquered England and all of Europe. Do you think that would haven a good thing?
As one whose entire European Family was marched into Hitler’s gas chambers, I don’t think that would have been a good thing to let him control Europe. I assume you disagree.
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Dear Dr. Ravitch:
I am confused by your reply to Schlitz.
I read his confirmation that “…WWII, in my opinion, was the last legal war we’ve had.”
IMHO, all other wars, according to Schlitz, are for puppet masters to control their market shares of power, BUT the wwwII
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May,
I reacted to his claim that FDR led us into World War 2 under false pretenses, repeating an oft debunked claim that FDR knew in advance that the Japanese planned to bomb Pearl Harbor but failed to act because he needed a pretext for joining the war. War is always terrible but World War 2 was a necessary War, not just a legal one.
Glad to see you are back on the blog.
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Dear Dr. Ravitch:
I am sorry to press the wrong key.
According to Schlitz, the WWII is the only LEGAL war that Americans should be proud to participate.
To my knowledge, being as innocent immigrant, I NEVER feel ashamed to be Vietnamese nor to be American (if I was not in Canada).
War is created by corrupted leaders who ARE egoistic, ignorant, talent-less, BUT who love to be seen as heroes in history.
These egoistic, maniac, and corrupted people (you know who) are supported by “rich, intelligent/omnipresent, powerful and controlling” PUPPET MASTERS whom we dare not to mention their “names” and their GLOBAL assets.
Life is not permanent. The choice that people intend to create, the consequences will accordingly happen to the creator in one life or another. Sooner or later, sinners can NOT escape their karma.
Please believe me that you are the finest being/individual/educator and historian in America. Love you. May
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“They say that War is Hell and it is true.”
It wasn’t “they” that said that. It was General Tecumseh Sherman.
Sherman said, “I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation. War is hell.”
Bush #2 and Trump have never fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded.
Sherman also said, “War is cruelty. There is no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over.”
Sherman was a brutal general. Sherman might have returned as General Paton in World War II.
Some of your comment is based on allegations without facts to support them. Your argument had plenty of examples based on actual facts and would be stronger if you stayed away from the few unproven allegations. The unproven claims are probably where a warmonger will attack you and change the topic to divert attention away from all the actual facts you used.
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I too grieve for what we did and what we left behind in Vietnam. Especially when you learn the real reasons why we were there in the first place, and why we fabricated an incident to get into the war…
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Dear Dr. Ravitch:
I always read your blog. It seems that I was away because all of my replies were disappeared.
Your blog is the true source to reassure readers that there exists a civilized conversation in America.
IMHO, time is the most precious source for people to learn and to practice what they learn. This process is to achieve and to secure their inner peace sooner or later in one life or another on Earth, until their enlightenment happens.
You have provided a platform for all readers to exchange their common wisdom from their own living experiences which can be imaginary or real depends on their true or fake sincerity. Love you. May
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