In this article, journalist Kathi Valeii interviews author Katherine Stewart about the Evangelical attack on public schools. Stewart is the author of a powerful book, “The Good News Club: The Christian Right’s Stealth Assault on America’s Children.”
Stewart has shown how Evangelicals insert the “Good News Clubs” into public schools to proselytize.
Here is a quote from the interview:
“KV: In your book, you use the word “Christian Nationalist” to describe the people working to infiltrate the public school system with conversion-style programs. In the current political climate, this language feels particularly relevant. Why do you think this language choice is important?
“KS: Christian nationalism has been around for a couple centuries. But starting in the 1970s it took on a new and much more virulent form. Many people saw it coming. I think of Michelle Goldberg’s 2006, Kingdom Coming: The Rise of Christian Nationalism, a prescient look at the development of politicized evangelical religion. Other writers before her, such as Frederick Clarkson, who wrote Eternal Hostility: The Struggle Between Theocracy and Democracy, have been on the case even longer.
“But many others have until recently downplayed the rise of Christian Nationalism as merely a “cultural” phenomenon, or a manifestation of certain social attitudes. I believe that this is in part because the discussion of religion and politics is, frankly, awkward. It would be a much nicer world if we could simply allow one another to carry on in our personal beliefs and approach policy questions without regard to that private world.
“Today, however, a certain variety of politicized religion in America wants to rewrite our history, upend our constitutional principles, and take us “back” to a time that never actually existed. We can no longer afford to ignore it. With the rise of Trump, I think we can say definitively that Christian Nationalism is first and foremost a political ideology. It is deeply authoritarian, it is determined, and it has put the future of democracy in peril.
“When Christian Nationalists say they wish to “take our country back,” they are not being hyperbolic; they are being honest. They have told us that they abhor our public schools, and that they pray for the day such schools cease to exist. Leaders of Christian Nationalists’ judicial strategy have told us that they want to eradicate the “so-called’ wall of separation between church and state, and that the time has come to return our schools to the Lord. They are telling us what they really think, and we should listen to them now, before it is too late.
“KV: The last chapter of your book is titled, “If you can’t own it break it.” You explain the paradox of of the Christian Right’s desires to be actively involved in the public schools and simultaneously dismantle them, which basically also sums up the position of Education Secretary Betsy Devos. How do you see her leadership role affecting the further erosion of the practical separation of church and state in our public schools?
“KS: Betsy DeVos has historically funded two things with equal generosity: the religious right on the one hand, and the privatization efforts of public education on the other. The reason for that is straightforward: she, like many members of the extreme end of the conservative movement, believes in both economic libertarianism and religious fundamentalism, and she sees them as being grounded in each other and mutually reinforcing. The idea is that if you turn schools over to to the genuinely “free market,” they will inculcate the “correct” religious values in students. And there won’t be a need to worry about the separation of church and state, because they will be the same thing.
“The astonishing thing about DeVos is just how much contempt she exudes for the public schools that she is charged with overseeing. When Trump insulted “our failing government schools,” you can be sure that the sentiment chimed with her own beliefs. She rarely loses an opportunity to say that the system isn’t working, that the schools are failing, that they are losing ground, and so on. She seems to make a point of minimizing contact with the people most closely connected with traditional public schools. On a recent visit to Florida, she was criticized for visiting a private school, a charter school, and a voucher school, but no traditional public schools. This attitude is a clear prelude to destructive policy moves.”
Excellent, fact-based comment. We might also note that the unqualified, incompetent Betsy DeVos is a product of private schools and of Calvin College, which was greatly influenced by Abraham Kuyper. Kuyper was a Dutch politician/clergyman who led to the Netherlands’ dividing its society, including schools, into three vertical columns or pillars – Catholic, Protestant and everyone else. This might work in a crowded, small homogeneous country but would be utterly disastrous in the US. But that, of course, is what DeVos wants.
The libertarian plan for education, read and weep:
Separation of education and State
We advocate the complete separation of education and State. Government schools lead to the indoctrination of children and interfere with the free choice of individuals. Government ownership, operation, regulation, and subsidy of schools and colleges should be ended. We call for the repeal of the guarantees of tax-funded, government-provided education, which are found in most state constitutions.
Source: National Platform of the Libertarian Party , Jul 2, 2000
End compulsory busing & compulsory education
We condemn compulsory education laws, which spawn prison-like schools with many of the problems associated with prisons, and we call for an immediate repeal of such laws.
Until government involvement in education is ended, we support elimination, within the governmental school system, of forced busing and corporal punishment. We further support immediate reduction of tax support for schools, and removal of the burden of school taxes from those not responsible for the education of children.
Source: National Platform of the Libertarian Party , Jul 2, 2000
I can’t tell you how much I hate, loathe, detest, revile and abhor this pseudo “philosophy” of greed, selfishness and moral depravity.
Joe’s comment would be hilarious were his sentiments not echoed by so many other people out of touch with reality. Joe’s proposal would utterly fragment our whole society and our school population along religious, ideological, social class, ethnic, linguistic, degree of disability and other lines. Is his address some sort of mental institution?
Edd: I was QUOTING THE LIBERTARIAN PLATFORM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don’t believe in that sh$t! To be clear: I DO NOT SUBSCRIBE TO LIBERTARIANISM IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM!!!! Betsy DeVos is a libertarian as far as I know. Edd, go back and read my whole posting. Again, I do not subscribe to libertarianism in any way shape or form. I thought that was clear but I guess not. Sigh. Sometimes I just want to give up making any comments.
Edd: I started with: The libertarian plan for education, read and weep.
And I concluded with: I can’t tell you how much I hate, loathe, detest, revile and abhor this pseudo “philosophy” of greed, selfishness and moral depravity.
Which means I am appalled at the libertarian philosophy on education and just about everything else.
You are correct. You weren’t even being sarcastic. Innocent as charged.
Thanks, Joel!
Libertarians have a strong habit of ignoring the decisions of the population when they conflict with libertarian ideology. Freedom of association means nothing to them. A community deciding they want public schools will not be allowed, because libertarianism cannot tolerate freedom manifesting itself like that.
Wait a minute, Edd. Where’s the “Oops, I misunderstood!” for Joe? Do you still think he was supporting Libertarianism?
Here’s a video with highlights of Devos’ speech at Harvard:
The Q & A pretty much ended when one a Harvard grad student asked Devos one doozy of a question. This prompted the moderator to tell Devos to refuse the answer the question, then quickly lead her off-stage to chants of …
“WHAT does white supremacy look like?” THAT’S what white supremacy looks like.
Here’s that question:
x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x
(1:55 – )
(1:55 – )
JEFF VERSAY (sp?) :
“Hi, my name is Jeff Versay. I’m a Master in public administration student here at the Kennedy School.
“So, You’re a billionaire with lots and lots of investments, and the so-called *’school choice’ movement is a way to open the floodgates for corporate interests to make money off the backs of students.*
“How much do *you expect your net worth to increase as a result of your policy choices and what are your friends on Wall Street and in the business world—like the Koch brothers—saying about the potential to get rich off the backs of students?”*
MODERATOR:
“You can choose not to answer that, Secretary.”
x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x
Here’s an account of the protests at the DAILY KOS:
https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2017/9/29/1702700/-Betsy-DeVos-faces-absolutely-stunning-silent-protest-at-Harvard?detail=facebook
DAILY KOS:
While Trump’s swamp-addled Education Secretary Betsy DeVos tried to speak at Harvard University to sell her special privatization of public school branding “school choice,” she found herself the subject of an incredibly powerful and well-orchestrated “silent” protest.
Silently standing up as the DeVos speech got under way was one young woman, holding up a sheet with “White Supremacist” emblazoned in red on it.
Then another young man stood up silently with a sign reading “Our Students Are Not 4 Sale!” As security tried move protestors along by speaking to them, more and more students unfurled signs saying “Protect Survivors’ Rights,” “Our Harvard Can Do Better,” “Reclaiming My Democracy,” and “Dark Money,” amongst others.
During her stupid speech promoting charter schools, she tried the rhetorical oratory trick of asking a rhetorical question.
DEVOS: “So what do we do? Increase funding? Does that solve the problem?”
To which a student responded, “Yes.”
In the silence of the room, the answer is clear and perfect. Students responded with snapping instead of clapping during the protest—keeping the volume of the event very low.
What does mobilisation look like? THAT’S what mobilisation looks like! Keep up the pressure!!!
Excellent commentary! I am pleased to hear the term “Christian nationalist” used, since not all evangelicals are Christian nationalists. So it helps to be able to use a term to separate people like DeVos and her brand of “believers” from people who have a deep faith but are not interested in establishing a theocracy in the USA.
DeVos and her ilk are fundie xtian evangelical regressive reactionaries.
I would not even call them nationalists, they are christianists.
I’d call them irrationalists.
There is no difference whatsoever between Christian Nationalists and ISIS or the Taliban. It really is that simple. The underlying structure and ethos of each of them is exactly the same.
I have lived in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Comparisons to the “Christian Nationalists” and ISIS/Taliban are ludicrous.
You do not know what you are talking about!
In Saudi Arabia, women have virtually no rights. They were only recently permitted to drive!
In Saudi Arabia, a man has the right to beat his wife/wives. He can divorce on a whim, just say “I divorce you” three times. The children are the property of the husband’s family in perpetuity.
In Saudi Arabia, women have virtually no rights. Only in the last weeks, have women been permitted to drive.
I have lived under Sharia law, and obviously you have not. Comparisons of the “Christian Nationalists” and ISIS/Taliban, are beyond ludicrous.
Under Sharia law, a woman can be stoned to death, just for being accused of adultery.
Under Sharia law, a woman can be stoned to death, just for being accused of adultery. In Saudi Arabia, a woman who is raped, can be stoned to death for adultery, because she had intercourse outside of her marriage.
Be sure to send public funds to schools that teach Sharia law–not
An education should include an understanding of comparative religions. Liberal academician Stephen Prothero, has been advocating religious literacy for many years, there was an excellent story about his efforts in Time magazine. see
https://www.harpercollins.com/9780060859527/religious-literacy
All schools, especially public schools, should be teaching religious literacy and comparative religions. This is permitted by the Supreme Court case, Abingdon v. Schempp (1963).
All Americans should have a basic understanding of Islam, it is the religion of 20% of the world, and the third largest religion in the USA. This instruction, should include an understanding of Sharia law.
All of us, should especially understand the treatment of women under Islam. Husbands can beat their wives, and divorce on a whim. In some Islamic countries, female circumcision is practiced, and required in some areas.
“We must learn to live together as brothers, or we will surely perish as fools- Martin Luther King Jr. Nobel Peace Prize winner.
Chas, is that why our government should subsidize religious schools?
Charles is right that public schools may and probably should help alleviate ignorance “about” religion. However, that is far more difficult to do than he ,thinks. There are no adequate textbooks, no programs for preparing and certifying teachers, no agreement on what should be taught or at what grade levels, no demand for such instruction shown in polls, and teachers are rightly afraid to go near the subject. Those teachers who might want to do so are generally fun damentalists who should not be allowed to do so. I write as a former history teacher why have taken comparative religion courses in college.
Q Chas, is that why our government should subsidize religious schools? END Q
Your question is meaningless. Most people, from all across the political spectrum, would agree, that an education, especially in a publicly-financed setting, should include a basic understanding of comparative religions.
The Supreme Court has permitted students in public schools to study the Bible (and other religious texts) as literature. Our nation has a whole rainbow of faiths residing here. All young people, should learn about the basics of the world’s religions. Who could have a problem with that?
There are Muslims on my street. There is a Buddhist pagoda less than a mile away. There is an African Missionary church within walking distance. How are we to live together, if our young people do not have a basic understanding of the world’s religions?
Our government (using our taxes) is subsidizing religious schools all over this land. Students attend religiously-operated schools (at the university level) using BEOG’s, GI Bill, federally-guaranteed student loans, and ROTC scholarships, etc, and no one ever raises a constitutional issue.
Students can even get a government-subsidized free education, to become a professional clergyperson, and preach the gospel, or be an imam at a Muslim mosque. See Witters v. Washington Department of Services for the Blind (1986).
https://www.oyez.org/cases/1985/84-1070
Government (using our taxes) is subsidizing religious schools, religious education, and training for the ministry, all over this land, without objection.
Getting back to your question. The noble and proper objective of having all children provided with a basic understanding of religious literacy, is NOT the rationale behind subsidizing religiously-operated schools, nor providing tax money to students attending these institutions.
Do you really want to stop BEOG’s and other forms of government financial assistance, going to students at religious institutions of learning?
Charles rightly notes that some public funding has been going to religious educational institutions. And that is because beginning around 1990 conservative justices on the SCOTUS began overturning precedents established from 1947 through the 1980s, justices thumbing their noses at Madison and Jefferson and our history of church-state separation. Thank Reagan and the Bushes for this retrogression to pre-Constitution days.
@Edd: Check out this video:
I am a bit more optimistic about the subject than you are. I agree, that there is no huge demand from the American public, to get religious literacy programs into our nation’s public schools.
But I believe sincerely, that adequate textbooks and teaching materials can be obtained. If you go to you nearest Mosque, they will be glad to give you pamphlets and books on Islam, and many copies of the Holy Koran. You can even get the Mosque to send an imam, to deliver lectures. Same with you local Latter-Day Saints (Mormon) group.
I do not understand why (public school) teachers would be hesitant to approach the subject, and teach religious literacy. If a teacher is “hesitant” to approach controversial subjects like religious literacy, or sex education, or gay rights, etc. then that teacher should seek an alternate line of work.
And why should fundamentalists, be banned from teaching about religion? A Christian can teach about Judaism, A muslim can teach about Hinduism, etc. Why not?
Charles blathers on and on and on but never seems to get things right. He favors government forcing all taxpayers to support a multiplicity of religion-based private schools, seemingly unaware of just how many different kinds of such schools there are — Catholic, Adventist, Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, evangelical, Episcopal, Lutheran, Jewish (several different kinds), Muslim (the largest recipient of voucher dollars in NC is the Greensboro Islamic Academy — and obviously does not care that vouchers, tax credits, and ESAs would seriously fragment our student population along religious, ideological, ethnic, class, disability level, etc. He seems unaware of the work of Madison and Jefferson and others in separating church and state in the US. His blather boils down to trolling for Trump, DeVos, Pence, Jeb Bush, and the Theocrat Right. — Edd Doerr
Christian nationalists are the “takers.” They want to take from the common good and common assets and distribute the plunder to the wealthy or to other Christian zealots. To understand DeVos misguided, biased agenda, all we have to do is look at all the destruction she inflicted on Michigan. Using her wealth like a sword, she destroyed the public schools and eliminated after school and summer programs, as well as other supports for vulnerable populations. DeVos is not much of a builder; she comes in with her wrecking ball and biased agenda to obliterate all things public.
My bubble dwelling friends do not grasp the significance of this problem because they’re so isolated. The Christo-fascists are legion, even here in CA.
I thought W was bad (he was). But Trump is on the quick road to being the worst president ever.
I though Arne Duncan was pretty bad (he was). But Betsy DeVos is making Arne look like a genius by comparison. She too is on the quick road.
It’s interesting – and simultaneously disgusting – that 81 percent of white evangelicals voted for a candidate that spewed racism, xenophobia and misogyny at almost every opportunity, and clearly had no idea about the core message of The Gospels.
These folks turned their backs on the Constitution. They cannot be allowed to win.