We have had an interesting conversation on the blog about the value of AP courses. It was tied to Jay Mathews’ use of AP courses to rank the quality of high schools: the more AP courses, the better the high school.
I have made clear two points: One, when I was in high school in the 1950s, there were no AP courses, so I have had no experience with them; and my children graduated high school without ever taking an AP course. This, I have no personal experience with AP. Two, I strongly object to the College Board marketing AP courses on the spurious grounds that they promote equity and civil rights. The College Board is making millions by doing so. It should be as honest as those selling cars, beer, and cigarettes.
Our friend and reader “Democracy” posted this comment:
“It sure is interesting that the pro-AP commenters on this thread do not – and cannot – cite any solid evidence that Advanced Placement is any more than hype. To be sure – there are good AP teachers. Also to be sure – as a program – AP just is NOT what the proponents claim. Far from it.
Much of the AP hype that exist in the U.S. can be traced to Jay Mathews, who slobbers unabashedly over the “merits” of AP. Mathews not only misrepresents the research on AP but also publishes the yearly Challenge Index, which purportedly lists the “best” high schools in America based solely on how many AP tests they give.
Jay Mathews writes that one of the reasons his high school ““rankings have drawn such attention is that “only half of students who go to college get to take college-level courses in high school.” What he does NOT say is that another main reason his rankings draw scrutiny is that they are phony; they are without merit. Sadly, far too many parents, educators and School Board members have bought into the “challenge” index that Mathews sells.
The Challenge Index is – and always has been – a phony list that doesn’t do much except to laud AP courses and tests. The Index is based on Jay Mathews’ equally dubious assumption that AP is inherently “better” than other high school classes in which students are encouraged and taught to think critically.
As more students take AP –– many more are doing so…they’ve been told that it is “rigor” and it’s college-level –– more are failing the tests. In 2010, for example, 43 percent of AP test scores were a 1 or 2. The Kool-Aid drinkers argue that “even students who score poorly in A.P. were better off.” Mathews says this too. But it’s flat-out wrong.
The basis for their claim is a College Board-funded study in Texas. But a more robust study (Dougherty & Mellor, 2010) of AP course and test-takers found that “students – particularly low-income students and students of color – who failed an AP exam were no more likely to graduate from college than were students who did not take an AP exam.” Other studies that have tried to tease out the effects of AP while controlling for demographic variables find that “the impact of the AP program on various measures of college success was found to be negligible.”
More colleges and universities are either refusing to accept AP test scores for credit, or they are limiting credit awarded only for a score of 5 on an AP test. The reason is that they find most students awarded credit for AP courses are just generally not well-prepared.
Former Stanford School of Education Dean Deborah Stipek wrote in 2002 that AP courses were nothing more than “test preparation courses,” and they too often “contradict everything we know about engaging instruction.” The National Research Council, in a study of math and science AP courses and tests agreed, writing that “existing programs for advanced study [AP] are frequently inconsistent with the results of the research on cognition and learning.” And a four-year study at the University of California found that while AP is increasingly an “admissions criterion,” there is no evidence that the number of AP courses taken in high school has any relationship to performance in college.
In The ToolBox Revisited (2006) Clifford Adelman scolded those who had misrepresented his original ToolBox research by citing the importance of AP “in explaining bachelor’s degree completion. Adelman said, “To put it gently, this is a misreading.” Moreover, in statistically analyzing the factors contributing to the earning of a bachelor’s degree, Adelman found that Advanced Placement did not reach the “threshold level of significance.”
College Board executives often say that if high schools implement AP courses and encourage more students to take them, then (1) more students will be motivated to go to college and (2) high school graduation rates will increase. Researchers Kristin Klopfenstein and Kathleen Thomas “conclude that there is no evidence to back up these claims.”
In fact, the unintended consequences of pushing more AP may lead to just the reverse. As 2010 book on AP points out “research…suggests that many of the efforts to push the program into more schools — a push that has been financed with many millions in state and federal funds — may be paying for poorly-prepared students to fail courses they shouldn’t be taking in the first place…not only is money being misspent, but the push may be skewing the decisions of low-income high schools that make adjustments to bring the program in — while being unable to afford improvements in other programs.”
Do some students “benefit” from taking AP courses and tests? Sure. But, students who benefit the most are “students who are well-prepared to do college work and come from the socioeconomic groups that do the best in college are going to do well in college.”
So, why do students take AP? Because they’ve been told to. Because they’re “trying to look good” to colleges in the “increasingly high-stakes college admission process,” and because, increasingly, “high schools give extra weight to AP courses when calculating grade-point averages, so it can boost a student’s class rank.” It’s become a rather depraved stupid circle.
One student who got caught up in the AP hype cycle –– taking 3 AP courses as a junior and 5 as a senior –– and only got credit for one AP course in college, reflected on his AP experience. He said nothing about “rigor” or “trying to be educated” or the quality of instruction, but remarked “if i didn’t take AP classes, it’s likely I wouldn’t have gotten accepted into the college I’m attending next year…If your high school offers them, you pretty much need to take them if you want to get into a competitive school. Or else, the admissions board will be concerned that you didn’t take on a “rigorous course load.” AP is a scam to get money, but there’s no way around it. In my opinion, high schools should get rid of them…”
Jay Mathews calls AP tests “incorruptible.” But what do students actually learn from taking these “rigorous” AP tests?
For many, not much. One student remarked, after taking the World History AP test, “dear jesus… I had hoped to never see “DBQ” ever again, after AP world history… so much hate… so much hate.” And another added, “I was pretty fond of the DBQ’s, actually, because you didn’t really have to know anything about the subject, you could just make it all up after reading the documents.” Another AP student related how the “high achievers” in his school approached AP tests:
“The majority of high-achieving kids in my buddies’ and my AP classes couldn’t have given less of a crap. They showed up for most of the classes, sure, and they did their best to keep up with the grades because they didn’t want their GPAs to drop, but when it came time to take the tests, they drew pictures on the AP Calc, answered just ‘C’ on the AP World History, and would finish sections of the AP Chem in, like, 5 minutes. I had one buddy who took an hour-and-a-half bathroom break during World History. The cops were almost called. They thought he was missing.”
An AP reader (grader), one of those “experts” cited by Mathews notes this: “I read AP exams in the past. Most memorable was an exam book with $5 taped to the page inside and the essay just said ‘please, have mercy.’ But I also got an angry breakup letter, a drawing of some astronauts, all kinds of random stuff. I can’t really remember it all… I read so many essays in such compressed time periods that it all blurs together when I try to remember.”
Dartmouth no longer gives credit for AP test scores. It found that 90 percent of those who scored a 5 on the AP psychology test failed a Dartmouth Intro to Psych exam. A 2006 MIT faculty report noted “there is ‘a growing body of research’ that students who earn top AP scores and place out of institute introductory courses end up having ‘difficulty’ when taking the next course.” Mathews called this an isolated study. But two years prior, Harvard “conducted a study that found students who are allowed to skip introductory courses because they have passed a supposedly equivalent AP course do worse in subsequent courses than students who took the introductory courses at Harvard” (Seebach, 2004).
When Dartmouth announced its new AP policy, Mathews ranted and whined that “The Dartmouth College faculty, without considering any research, has voted to deny college credit for AP.” Yet it is Jay who continually ignores and diminishes research that shows that Advanced Placement is not what it is hyped up to be.
In his rant, Mathews again linked to a 2009 column of his extolling the virtues of the book “Do What Works” by Tom Luce and Lee Thompson. In “Do What Works,” Luce and Thompson accepted at face value the inaccuracies spewed in “A Nation At Risk” (the Sandia Report undermined virtually everything in it). They wrote that “accountability” systems should be based on rewards and punishments, and that such systems provide a “promising framework, and federal legislation [NCLB] promotes this approach.” Luce and Thompson called NCLB’s 100 percent proficiency requirement “bold and valuable” and “laudable” and “significant” and “clearly in sight.” Most knowledgeable people called it stupid and impossible.
Luce and Thompson wrote that “data clearly points to an effective means” to increase AP participation: “provide monetary rewards for students, teachers, and principals.”
This flies in the face of almost all contemporary research on motivation and learning.
As I’ve noted before, College Board funded research is more than simply suspect . The College Board continues to perpetrate the fraud that the SAT actually measures something important other than family income. It doesn’t. Shoe size would work just as well.
[For an enlightening read on the SAT, see: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2005/11/the-best-class-money-can-buy/4307/%5D
The College Board produced a “study” purporting to show that PSAT score predicted AP test scores. A seemingly innocuous statement, however, undermined its validity. The authors noted that “the students included in this study are of somewhat higher ability than…test-takers” in the population to which they generalized. That “somewhat higher ability” actually meant students in the sample were a full standard deviation above those 9th and 10th graders who took the PSAT. Even then, the basic conclusion of the “study” was that students who scored well on the PSAT had about a 50-50 chance of getting a “3”, the equivalent of a C- , on an AP test.
A new (2013) study from Stanford notes that “increasingly, universities seem
to be moving away from awarding credit for AP courses.” The study pointed out that “the impact of the AP program on various measures of college success was found to be negligible.” And it adds this: “definitive claims about the AP program and its impact on students and schools are difficult to substantiate.” But you wouldn’t know that by reading Jay Mathews or listening to the College Board, which derives more than half of its income from AP.
What the College Board doesn’t like to admit is that it sells “hundreds of thousands of student profiles to schools; they also offer software and consulting services that can be used to set crude wealth and test-score cutoffs, to target or eliminate students before they apply…That students are rejected on the basis of income is one of the most closely held secrets in admissions.” Clearly, College Board-produced AP courses and tests are not an “incorruptible standard.” Far from it.
The College Board routinely coughs up “research studies” to show that their test products are valid and reliable. The problem is that independent, peer-reviewed research doesn’t back them up. The SAT and PSAT are shams. Colleges often use PSAT scores as a basis for sending solicitation letters to prospective students. However, as a former admissions officer noted, “The overwhelming majority of students receiving these mailings will not be admitted in the end.” But the College Board rakes in cash from the tests, and colleges keep all that application money.
Some say – and sure does look that way – that the College Board, in essence, has turned the admissions process “into a profit-making opportunity.”
Mathews complains about colleges who no longer award AP credit. He says (wink) “Why drop credit for all AP subjects without any research?” Yet again and again he discounts all the research.
Let’s do a quick research review.
A 2002 National Research Council study of AP courses and tests was an intense two-year, 563-page detailed content analysis. The main study committee was comprised of 20 members who are not only experts in their fields but also top-notch researchers. Most also write on effective teaching and learning. Even more experts were involved on content panels for each discipline (biology, chemistry, physics, math), plus NRC staff. Mathews didn’t like the fact that the researchers concluded that AP courses and tests were a “mile wide and an inch deep” and they did not comport with well-established, research-based principles of learning. He dismissed that study as the cranky “opinion of a few college professors.”
The main finding of a 2004 Geiser and Santelices study was that “the best predictor of both first- and second-year college grades” is unweighted high school grade point average, and a high school grade point average “weighted with a full bonus point for AP…is invariably the worst predictor of college performance.” And yet – as commenters noted here – high schools add on the bonus. The state of Virginia requires it.
Klopfenstein and Thomas (2005) found that AP students “…generally no more likely than non-AP students to return to school for a second year or to have higher first semester grades.” Moreover, they write that “close inspection of the [College Board] studies cited reveals that the existing evidence regarding the benefits of AP experience is questionable,” and “AP courses are not a necessary component of a rigorous curriculum.”
In other words, there’s no need for the AP imprimatur to have thoughtful, inquiry-oriented learning.
Phillip Sadler said in 2009 that his research found “students who took and passed an A.P. science exam did about one-third of a letter grade better than their classmates with similar backgrounds who did not take an A.P. course.” Sadler also wrote in the 2010 book “AP: A Critical Examination” that “Students see AP courses on their transcripts as the ticket ensuring entry into the college of their choice,” yet, “there is a shortage of evidence about the efficacy, cost, and value of these programs.” Sadly, AP was written into No Child Left Behind and Race to the Top and it is very much a mainstay of corporate-style education “reform,” touted by the likes of ExxonMobil and the US Chamber of Commerce.
For years, Mathews misrepresented Clifford Adelman’s 1999 ToolBox. As Klopfenstein and Thomas wrote in 2005, “it is inappropriate to extrapolate about he effectiveness of the AP Program based on Adelman’s work alone.” In the 2006 ToolBox Revisited Adelman issued his own rebuke:
“With the exception of Klopfenstein and Thomas (2005), a spate of recent reports and commentaries on the Advanced Placement program claim that the original ToolBox demonstrated the unique power of AP course work in explaining bachelor’s degree completion. To put it gently, this is a misreading.”
The book, ‘AP A Critical Examination’ (2010) lays out the research that makes clear AP has become “the juggernaut of American high school education,” but “ the research evidence on its value is minimal.” It is the academic equivalent of DARE (Drug Abuse Resistance Education). DARE cranks out “research” that shows its “effectiveness,” yet those studies fail to withstand independent scrutiny. DARE operates in more than 80 percent of U.S. school districts, and it has received hundreds of millions of dollars in subsidies. However, the General Accounting Office found in 2003 that “the six long-term evaluations of the DARE elementary school curriculum that we reviewed found no significant differences in illicit drug use between students who received DARE in the fifth or sixth grade (the intervention group) and students who did not (the control group).”
AP may work well for some students, especially those who are already “college-bound to begin with” (Klopfenstein and Thomas, 2010). As Geiser (2007) notes, “systematic differences in student motivation, academic preparation, family background and high-school quality account for much of the observed difference in college outcomes between AP and non-AP students.” College Board-funded studies do not control well for these student characteristics (even the College Board concedes that “interest and motivation” are keys to “success in any course”). Klopfenstein and Thomas (2010) find that when these demographic characteristics are controlled for, the claims made for AP disappear.
I’m left wondering about this wonder school where “several hundred freshmen” take “both AP World and AP Psychology” and where by graduation, students routinely “knock out the first 30 ore more college credits.”
Where is this school, and what is its name? Jay Mathews will surely be interested.”
I used to say, I wouldn’t send my kids to any college that gave them college credit for AP classes. The “rigor” appeared to be suspect. But then I am also suspect of high school students taking “college” courses and getting credit for that. The world is a big place – bigger and more complicated than back then. High school is a time to explore ideas, classes, interests, critical thinking, how to be a good citizen. Overlooking those things and focusing on tests of any kind are the real failures of public education thanks to “education reform,” Liberal arts education is only for their kids, not those kids.
Yep…
I hear many colleges besides Dartmouth no longer recognize AP courses. But NYC schools are under pressure today to close racial AP gaps, that is make sure students of color have as much access to AP courses as white students. This year, as head of my department I remember filling out a survey about this.
It’s also expensive – about $1500 – for a teacher to attend a weeklong training on how to offer AP courses. They have a scholarship you can apply for, but it only covers the first $1000.
jake,
You’ve made a really good point, and I’ve cited this particular problem any number of times on this blog.
There are far too many administrators, — superintendents and principals — and school board members who are either absolutely clueless, or who have no spines. They either don’t KNOW the research on AP, or don’t believe it, or are unwilling to do anything about it.
And so the AP myth and practice gets perpetuated.
Hell, in one central Virginia school district that bills itself as “innovative” and “cutting edge,” the school board promotes AP courses and tests and SAT scores, touts them on its school website, and the division superintendent was last year given the ‘Superintendent of the Year’ award from the state association of school superintendents (of which she was previously a board member).
So, it’s inbred.
Too, there are plenty of teachers who are AP devotees.
And, as I’ve mentioned before, AP is tied to STEM, and STEM is tied to the National Math and Science Initiative, which is tied to big business, which is tied to the Chamber of Commerce and the Business Roundtable, who are linked to corporate “reform” and to Common Core, which was paid for by Bill Gates and birthed by such groups as the College Board and ACT, Inc.
Pretty incestuous circle.
When are more educators and parents and students and principals and school board members and regular citizens going to demand an end to the bullshit?
Jake,
Dartmouth does in fact give credit for AP exam scores. See their website here: http://www.dartmouth.edu/~reg/enrollment/credit_on_entrance_exemption_charts.html
It is important to verify statements you hear, especially statements made on the internet.
“beginning with the class of 2018, the college will no longer grant credit based on its students’ AP test scores in high school.”
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013/01/18/dartmouth-end-use-advanced-placement-scores-credit
Democracy,
I thought that Jake was saying that Dartmouth does not recognize AP credits, not that they will not be recognizing them.
Do you happen to know if they will allow college transfer credits from incoming freshman? It was a bit frustrating that colleges and universities would not take the 25 credit hours of actual university courses taken as a special student at our local university that he earned while in high school.
TE, don’t know about transfer credits.
This writer “Democracy” uses a plethora of citations to establish what grandmothers have known all along. “There’s a lot of difference between a sixteen year old and an eighteen or nineteen year old.” It seems that a lot of what the research reports is reflected in the normal process of “growing up”, sometimes referred to as “development”.
Joseph,
You would think that if it were ‘common sense’ then it would be more commonly widespread. But it isn’t.
The research I cited isn’t about human development and learning, although there’s quite a bit of that research that applies, and it IS relevant.
The research I cited is specific to Advanced Placement and learning, and to AP and college success. And it’s pretty clear, except for those who don’t really want to believe it.
As an AP proponent said previously
“I don’t need a [stinkin] study”
I don’t need a study
To tell me what is clear
A science fuddy duddy
To tell me how to steer
I think and therefore know
The answers to the questions
So science so and so
Can stuff their quaint suggestions
Good poetry. Good humor, my friend
Tracy85 still hasn’t identified the school at which he or she teaches, where hundreds of freshmen take both AP World Geography and AP Psychology.
I’d still be interested to know.
Several people who did take an AP classes/courses told me that they ONLY TURNED THE PAGES FASTER, they don’t learn more or deeply.
Love the terminology. TURNING PAGES FASTER must never be confused with rigor–or with serving the student’s best interest!
An interesting thing occurred last year. A class which I have long taught is based on ACT scores in math. We have found that students who make in excess of 18 on the math section are generally ready to take a class in Algebra and Trig that emphasizes the Algebra and Trig more than the readiness for calculus. This latter group takes pre-calculus.
Oddly enough, last year’s group had some of the highest math scores on the ACT, but we’re not the best prepared for the class. Is it possible that the nature of the tests has been altered to the end that they show less of what we have been looking for? Is it possible to look at test from years past and compare?
“Is it possible to look at test from years past and compare?”
In psychometrics that is a reliability issue. To get their answer one would need to see the reliability studies for a given test which I doubt actually exist. I’d say contact the ACT people to try to get those studies.
But as Noel Wilson points out, reliability means nothing if the test is not valid. The inherent onto-epistemological errors and falsehoods of the standards and testing regime as shown by Wilson renders any usage of the results COMPLETELY INVALID.
In other words why give a damn about the results?
At least my AP Human Geography class DOES explore ideas, interests, and how to be a good citizen.
It depends a lot on the teacher. I wouldn’t be able to teach this material in a “regular” geography class. I wish I could. But do wish that everyone would not lump AP classes all together. I have MANY students who come to me from poverty situations, kids with low reading levels, and ELL kids. I don’t force the test; they can take it if they want (most of them do). And not all pass. But even the kids who don’t pass tell me when I see them in the community (which is often) that they learned more from APHG than most, if not all, of the other classes they ever took. Their AP experience, and some never take another AP class, was incredibly positive for them.
There are good AP teachers who help to make a good AP course. No question.
But, ultimately – for many – the end product of an AP course is the AP test. Schools and school divisions tout their AP “passing” rates — though, if pressed, those doing the loudest touting probably couldn’t explain anything about the scores. There are teachers who brag about their “AP pass rates.” And some self-identify as an “AP teacher.”
As you probably know, there are schools and school divisions that REQUIRE any AP course-taker to also take the AP exam, or fail the course. Why’d they do that? Because so many students were NOT taking the tests, they were just gaming the system, putting AP on their school transcripts and getting bonus points for doing it.
By the way, maybe those kids didn’t “learn more from APHG”…maybe they learned more from you.
And maybe the kids in the “regular” geography class can and do too.
What surprised me with my kids is how AP has changed from a rare thing to a mandatory. As a top student I took ONE AP course in high school. But today’s students are questioned with “how MANY AP courses are you taking”?
As my son found out, today the classes also weren’t very advanced and weren’t offering more than he would have gotten in a good class with a good teacher.
Yep….
Double YEP!
And one of the reasons I refused to have my upper Spanish classes labeled AP (yes, I was certified to be an AP teacher-what a joke that process was) was that I didn’t need anyone to tell me what and how to teach those classes-no diligent teacher does.
I am an AP social studies teacher of 10 years. Indeed, there should be more independent studies of the merits of Advanced Placement. I’d like to offer my insight, despite being anecdotal. The College Board does not dictate how an AP history course should be taught. It does provide a Curriculum Framework (CF) outlining content and skills expected to be assessed on the exam. The CF for AP U.S. History (APUSH) explicitly mentions approximately 10 U.S. presidents; in a few cases for their involvement in events prior to their administrations. This does not mean the CB expects students to only know those explicitly mentioned presidents and it does not mean the teacher should only teach/address those explicitly mentioned presidents. This discussion comes down to the what is happening in the AP classroom as led by the teacher. AP history teachers who prefer lecture-based discussions have as much success as teachers who prefer student-centered activities. I had students who took a Dual Enrollment history survey course prior to enrolling in my AP course tell me they learned more about history in one of my units than in the entire DE semester course. It comes down to a teacher’s consistent approach to the purpose of the course rather than primarily focusing on exam preparation. Students of mine have returned to testify how their AP Calculus teacher more than adequately prepared them for upper level calculus courses needed for their majors and how their AP English Lang/Lit teacher helped to develop their written voice. And how I provided them further insight into the world whether being able to answer a professor’s random content question or how to effectively research an issue for a paper. It is the test prep environment and era of accountability pressuring teachers and schools to throw their money and resources into AP exams and not the AP COURSE.
Good points, Johnny. There are good Ap teachers who make sure that the course they teach are good, AP designation or not.
The general assumption is that AP is “better” than other courses, courses that may well stress inquiry and critical thinking and reading & discussion, and citizenship.
The “research” that the College Board sponsors always concludes that its products are better than Eskimo Pies and craft beer.
But independent studies — like the ones I cited in my comment — just don’t support the AP nonsense.
So well written. I am proud of our school’s AP Program for the caring teachers, the curriculum that teaches them how to write for college and how to back up their claims, and for the chance for our students to experience a college-level class and be successful. My two daughters each went into college with 29 credits. One just completed her first year (the other will be a freshman) and she did not struggle academically at all. We have students return to say that they were asked by their peers to be tutors because they were well-prepared. Our school doesn’t have the highest pass rate on its AP exams, but it’s not our only focus for offering these classes. It is frustrating when the writings on AP are not separating the complaints about the College Board, testing, etc., from true learning that occurs in these classes. Just because some schools don’t have quality classes doesn’t mean that all AP programs are fluff or test-focused.
Nobody said that ALL Advanced Placement courses are worthless. IN fact, I’ve said just the opposite. There are good AP teachers, and they can make good AP classes.
However, as a program, AP is grossly overhyped and the research proves it.
If your daughters went into college with 29 credits, how many Ap classes did they take? And what did they score on the exams? Maybe your daughters are just good students, and they did well because they are intellectually capable. Maybe AP had little to do with their preparation for college. Maybe they’ve always managed their time well.
Just curious about any research in the last 7 years? Most of your cited research is from before 2011. The AP started redesigning a lot of their coursework and curriculum framework in reaction to these criticisms. I see more in common with AP World History and my World History 201 & 202 classes now than a few years ago. Not saying it’s still not flawed, but just curious.
Lauren,
I assume your comment is well-intended, but it resonates of the Jay Mathews mindset. Mathews derided the 2002 National Research Council study on AP math and science courses and tests – which was led by well-established researchers and was exhaustive in scope – as “old” and a bunch of sour grapes from some “cranky” professors.
Yes, AP has gotten a lot of criticism. Deservedly so.
But I doubt that’s the real reason that the College Board has changed its tests. The real reason? The Common Core. As I noted, the College Board was a major player in developing the Common Core, and it now says that all of its products (PSAT, SAT, AP) are “aligned” with it.
You ask it there’s any research in the last seven years. I cited two critical pieces of research in that time frame:
‘AP A Critical Examination’ (2010) is a compilation of studies on AP. a basic conclusion is that “when researchers control for a variety of factors related to college-going and college success (such as student demographics, other courses taken, etc.), the boost allegedly provided by the AP courses evaporates.”
‘The Advanced Placement Program: Living Up to its Promise?’ (2013) is a review of twenty research studies, including the 2010 book cited above. It concludes that “the impact of the AP program on various measures of college success was found to be negligible,” and “definitive claims about the AP program and its impact on students and schools are difficult to substantiate.”
But, in the three and 1/2 years since the Stanford study (above) there hasn’t been much.
There was the Dartmouth “experiment” in which “a condensed version of the Psych 1 final” was given “to incoming students instead of giving them credits.” The results? “Of more than 100 students who had scored a 5 on the A.P. exam, 90 percent failed the Dartmouth test…A follow-up effort produced even worse results…”
A 2015 study looked at the effect(s) of taking AP Calculus or AP English on students’ ACT scores. Now, why the researchers have any interest in the connection between AP and ACT score, I don’t know, since the best predictor of ACT score is family income and ACT score doesn’t predict much about success in college. Nonetheless, this study concluded that “merely enrolling in an AP course produces
very little benefit for students. Students who take and
pass the AP exam, however, obtain higher ACT scores.” How much higher? Several points. The authors notes this in the conclusion of the study: “despite our complex statistical methods, we were still unable to say that participation in the AP program caused students to have higher ACT scores.”
So, not much there.
A December, 2016 study examined the connection between Ap course-taking and enrollment in a STEM major. I’ve written on this blog before about the STEM myth. Yet, it persists. So does misinformation about AP.
Here’s what the 206 study says about AP courses:
“They are so common that according to the College Board, which operates the program, the total number of students taking AP
exams increased 660 percent between 1980 and 2004, and the total number of AP exams taken increased 750 percent during the same period. The success of AP classes has been well supported in the literature in terms of early college success and graduation rates.”
Actually, the “success of AP classes” has NOT been well-supported. Quite the opposite.
The conclusion of this “study?” Here it is:
“when students are genuinely interested in the tasks involved in learning math and science, confident about their abilities in in learning math and science, or perceive importance of science they tend to
identify themselves with the respective subject and thus become more likely to take AP math or science courses.”
Well, gee whiz. In this particular “study” the strongest correlation coefficients were in the rage of .257 and .349.
More recently (2017), we learned that uber-prep school Choate is dropping AP courses because of “a sentiment expressed by Choate students that AP courses were not serving their needs optimally and that their teachers of current AP courses could do a better job if freed from the limits of the AP Program…content-heavy AP courses run counter to this trend and do not lend themselves to the pedagogical directions we are pursuing…”
Hope this helps.
There is another reason that the College Board is tightly tied to the Common Core: after the CCSS was completed, David Coleman was hired to be CEO of the College Board ($750,000 per annum).
The College Board and ACT had seats on the committee that wrote the Common Core.
““a sentiment expressed by Choate students that AP courses were not serving their needs optimally…”
Pardon my cynicism but when you force overprivileged students to take the same AP Exams as public school students and they don’t score as high, but they still expect to be admitted to top colleges over the same public school students who outscored them, having AP Exams does not serve the needs of their students.
Back in the day when ONLY overprivileged students took AP Exams, those same schools loved them.
Now as so many public schools have adopted them, that means so many public school students are taking them and demonstrating their academic prowess. But there isn’t enough room in those colleges for all of them. And the places for the over privileged private school students need to remain constant.
So rather than to have them all take the same exam and see how they stack up, the best way to “optimally serve” the needs of private school students is for their school to certify that their privileged student who receives a B+ in their superior non-AP class is far more worthy than the public school student who gets an A- in her AP class and a 5 on the AP exam. Why would anyone want that premise actually tested when it helps those students achieve their needs — receiving an admissions spot over that public school student — more optimally?
I prefer to question the premise that an elite private school for the .01% should be able to certify that their own non-AP course is far superior and that college admissions counselors should simply trust them on that because having to prove it with an exam would be counter productive.
Ah, NYC Parent, cynicism runs deep.
My thoughts on AP, from a retired Superintendent’s perspective and a parent’s perspective:
First, and most importantly, Jay Matthews’ attempts to rate schools— like ANY attempt to rate schools— reinforces the notion that parents are “consumers” who can select public schools. This might be true for affluent parents who are choosing which suburban enclave they want to live in but it clearly isn’t and never will be true for poor minority parents.
Second, the community where I last led a public school system– Hanover NH, home to Dartmouth College— did not offer AP courses when I retired in 2011. As a result, is was not as highly rated by Jay Matthews’ metric as other NH school districts. While some parents wished we offered AP courses, the school boards I worked with supported the faculty at the HS who did not see the need for such courses. (see the next paragraph)
Third, even though Hanover HS did not offer AP courses, many Hanover HS students took the AP tests anyway… and typically those who did take the tests passed. This is a “secret” about AP that is not widely publicized: any student who pays the fee can take an AP test and have their scores reported to a college that cares about them… and any student taking a well taught calculus course, English course, foreign language course, or science course will likely do as well as a student enrolled in an AP course.
Finally, I do believe that SOME public schools benefit from offering AP courses. The rural MD HS my daughter attended (I’ll call it East Phippstitch HS) offered AP courses. I believe her scores on those tests effectively validated the quality of that HS to the competitive colleges she applied to in New England. Hanover HS has a reputation among many colleges. East Phippstitch HS did not. The fact that East Phippstitch offered AP courses and the fact my daughter scored well on those tests she took in her junior year MAY have been a factor in her gaining acceptance to schools that otherwise would have placed her application in another file.
The bottom line: whether to offer AP courses should be a local determination that is made independent of any artificial rating system like Jay Matthews’ index and made in concert with the administrators and teachers in the district.
wgerson,
Some enlightening observations.
I am – however – taken most by this particular comment:
“The fact that East Phippstitch offered AP courses and the fact my daughter scored well on those tests she took in her junior year MAY have been a factor in her gaining acceptance to schools that otherwise would have placed her application in another file.”
That’s part of the Jay Mathews story, the myth of the “incorruptible standard.” It’s the same myth the College Board pushes for AP. And for the SAT. And for the PSAT.
But research just doesn’t support it.
My son’s AP Econ teacher told the class if they took the AP exam they would get a C in the class. My son learned no economics, paid $60 for test , did not get a passing grade but got a C in the class.
So many factors need to be considered in relation to the value of an AP course. In NY State schools open after Labor Day leaving you about three weeks short of the time other state’s have for preparation. Also, we take a two week vacation block in late Spring hurting prep for AP. The annual calendars just made us look for other alternatives. When we closely examined SUNY credits through our local community college we found that these courses (which transfer to any branch of SUNY) were of much more value to our students. SUNY is the largest university in the world and credits earned through their advanced programs transfer to many colleges in NY where our students chose to attend.
Jay Matthews needs to develop some way of rating schools based upon whether they actually serve the interests of their students. Until he can do that he should give up his phony rigor ratings!
Click to access attachmentJ.pdf
A student can earn a high school equivalency diploma in New York State in one of two ways: (1) by taking and earning passing scores on a test (TASC/GED) or (2) by completing 24 semester hour credits in specified subjects as a recognized candidate for a degree in an approved (accredited) institution. The 24 credits must include 6 credits in English language arts, 3 credits in mathematics, 3 credits in the natural sciences, 3 credits in the social sciences, 3 credits in Humanities, and 6 credits in any other courses within the student’s registered ** degree or certificate program.
Note: A student who has earned the requisite 24 credits, is considered to have the “recognized equivalent” of a high school diploma, even before the State Education Department has issued a high school equivalency diploma.
For purposes of meeting TAP eligibility criteria, the 24 credits could include courses in which D grades were earned, providing the D was a passing grade and the student earned the credit.
If a student transfers from one institution to another, credits earned at both institutions can be used to determine whether the student satisfies the 24 credit requirements, providing the credits were earned at approved institutions and were listed on an official transcript. This procedure can apply even when the receiving institution does not accept all credits earned at a previous institution, as long as the prior credits are documented on an official transcript from an accredited institution.
**Registered program means a program that the State Education Department has reviewed and approved and is included in the Department’s official Inventory of Registered Programs.
I feel as if two separate issues are being conflated:
Should rankings of high schools be affected by AP classes offered or number of students who take and pass an AP exam?
This seems a no-brainer — of course not!
Do AP classes have any value at all? Do AP exams have any value?
That’s a harder question to answer. But dismissing them as meaningless for the students they were originally intended to serve — high achieving students looking for a more rigorous class — might not necessarily serve those students the best.
NYC psp,
If we are to have any hope of achieving Dr. Ravitch’s goal that “Every school should be equipped and ready to meet the needs of all those children other than the most profoundly disabled.”, I agree that we need to have more challenging courses available for high achieving students. It probably needs to go beyond the level of AP courses to something like the curriculum available to students at Thomas Jefferson High School in Virginia. We have a very long way to go.
Purely anecdotal, but here are my thoughts on AP and DE (based on my high school daughter’s experiences):
AP classes are MUCH more rigorous than the equivalent dual enrollment classes offered at the community college. No comparison.
The quality of the of AP class is very much dependent on the quality of the teacher. If the teacher does not prepare the students for all aspects of the test, the students suffer for it.
Some classes (e.g. World History) cover way too much material for anyone who does not have a photographic memory.
The Language and Literature classes are not structured to delve deeply into these very important subjects. I feel that my own (non AP) instruction in these subjects was much more enriching than the content that my daughter experienced.
Article doe s not consider IB Diploma Program or College Board’s recent changes to include AP Capstone. Data is dated. Interesting perspective nonetheless.
My experience with my own children, now all college graduates, is that like any class, the AP class is as good as the instructor. Some just piled on work while some actual challenged and taught. The score my children received on their AP exam usually matched the quality of teaching.
When my son got to college he actually had enough AP math credits to register for sophomore level math classes but couldn’t get into the classes because there too many students with higher registration status that filled them up. It really didn’t help him as far as less time to get out of school. It did however challenge him in high school. Again he had great math teacher in high school. AP history, not so much.
You raise an interesting point…are some AP teachers better than others (surely, they are) and are AP test scores a good indicator of this (that’s a much bigger jump).
The National Research Council study I noted indicates that teacher quality should not be equated with AP test score(s), though to be sure, there are plenty of people, including AP teachers, who believe the opposite. There are AP teacher who help to score the tests and know exactly how to teach it. So, does this make them good? Or are there more important metrics to be used?
Well many HS students do not even realize they have options, such as that they can take college courses instead of AP classes.
But in the words of the HS adminstrator I spoke to, “that would be like saying students didn’t need our classes (implying therefore our teachers would be out of a job.)
So I’d be appreciating the fact that students are still in your schools and classrooms when they take AP classes; versus other options, which more and more families are choosing to opt for every day – such as leaving the traditional school model for alternative options that includes having students attend college classes instead of remaining in high school classes.
Yes, it is more costly, but it will get them farther that much quicker as well.
Statistically a college degree will equate to more earning potential over the same timefrae, so it would be statiscally postive to invest in the college courses as there is more potential in advancement with the college course over the HS course.
So if a student can take an AP or college course over say a typical HS course on the same area, the future potential is higher if one takes the college level class over the typical HS level course.
So as more and more parents who value college, see that there are actually additional options available to them if they think outside the box, they will choose them with greater frequency once they realize they exist.
Theres plenty of research to show that a college degree generally pays off in higher earnings.
There just isn’t any research to show that AP courses result in future potential earnings, and in fact, the research shows that AP is more hype than it is educationally beneficial.
I am curious how some of the newer courses, as well as the courses that require portfolios like Studio Art, may end up correlating to college achievement. From what I have seen, the new AP Seminar and AP Research, along with AP CSP which all require extended research and synthesis seem to more closely match what I did in college. Of course it will be years before that happens.
While the test prep is neither good pedagogy nor engaging, I do think there is something powerful in students (at least in my district) self-selecting into a course that is explicitly college prep.
I am also curious what the research is for courses like IB.
The College Board is planning an AP Accounting course and test.
There are so many AP courses….you have to wonder.
Is AP gym class coming too?
As an AP teacher who has taught, AP European, AP World, AP Macro, and AP Government, I would say that the rigor of my courses I teach far surpasses the rigor of the freshman and sophomore auditorium lecture courses I took at University. Maybe colleges (especially public colleges) should examine the rigor of their intro courses when making decisions about whether or not to award college credit for AP.
I have no problem with AP courses. And I agree that some college classes may be less rigorous than many AP courses. But some students are “NOT ALLOWED” into AP courses in high school, and have no other option than to take those entry level classes, if they are even allowed into those. Many are forced into remedial classes before they can even take the entry level college classes.