The New York Times contains a column that expresses the fears of many people and asks whether our democracy is sturdy enough to survive the reign of Trump.
Steven Levitsky and Daniel Ziblatt, professors of government at Harvard, write:
“Donald J. Trump’s election has raised a question that few Americans ever imagined asking: Is our democracy in danger? With the possible exception of the Civil War, American democracy has never collapsed; indeed, no democracy as rich or as established as America’s ever has. Yet past stability is no guarantee of democracy’s future survival.
“We have spent two decades studying the emergence and breakdown of democracy in Europe and Latin America. Our research points to several warning signs.
“The clearest warning sign is the ascent of anti-democratic politicians into mainstream politics. Drawing on a close study of democracy’s demise in 1930s Europe, the eminent political scientist Juan J. Linz designed a “litmus test” to identify anti-democratic politicians. His indicators include a failure to reject violence unambiguously, a readiness to curtail rivals’ civil liberties, and the denial of the legitimacy of elected governments.
“Mr. Trump tests positive. In the campaign, he encouraged violence among supporters; pledged to prosecute Hillary Clinton; threatened legal action against unfriendly media; and suggested that he might not accept the election results….
“Mr. Trump is not the first American politician with authoritarian tendencies. (Other notable authoritarians include Gov. Huey Long of Louisiana and Senator Joseph McCarthy of Wisconsin.) But he is the first in modern American history to be elected president. This is not necessarily because Americans have grown more authoritarian (the United States electorate has always had an authoritarian streak). Rather it’s because the institutional filters that we assumed would protect us from extremists, like the party nomination system and the news media, failed.
“Many Americans are not overly concerned about Mr. Trump’s authoritarian inclinations because they trust our system of constitutional checks and balances to constrain him.
“Yet the institutional safeguards protecting our democracy may be less effective than we think. A well-designed constitution is not enough to ensure a stable democracy — a lesson many Latin American independence leaders learned when they borrowed the American constitutional model in the early 19th century, only to see their countries plunge into chaos.
“Democratic institutions must be reinforced by strong informal norms. Like a pickup basketball game without a referee, democracies work best when unwritten rules of the game, known and respected by all players, ensure a minimum of civility and cooperation. Norms serve as the soft guardrails of democracy, preventing political competition from spiraling into a chaotic, no-holds-barred conflict.
“Among the unwritten rules that have sustained American democracy are partisan self-restraint and fair play. For much of our history, leaders of both parties resisted the temptation to use their temporary control of institutions to maximum partisan advantage, effectively underutilizing the power conferred by those institutions. There existed a shared understanding, for example, that anti-majoritarian practices like the Senate filibuster would be used sparingly, that the Senate would defer (within reason) to the president in nominating Supreme Court justices, and that votes of extraordinary importance — like impeachment — required a bipartisan consensus. Such practices helped to avoid a descent into the kind of partisan fight to the death that destroyed many European democracies in the 1930s….
“Unlike his predecessors, Mr. Trump is a serial norm-breaker. There are signs that Mr. Trump seeks to diminish the news media’s traditional role by using Twitter, video messages and public rallies to circumvent the White House press corps and communicate directly with voters — taking a page out of the playbook of populist leaders like Silvio Berlusconi in Italy, Hugo Chávez in Venezuela and Recep Tayyip Erdogan in Turkey.
“An even more basic norm under threat today is the idea of legitimate opposition. In a democracy, partisan rivals must fully accept one another’s right to exist, to compete and to govern. Democrats and Republicans may disagree intensely, but they must view one another as loyal Americans and accept that the other side will occasionally win elections and lead the country. Without such mutual acceptance, democracy is imperiled. Governments throughout history have used the claim that their opponents are disloyal or criminal or a threat to the nation’s way of life to justify acts of authoritarianism.
“The idea of legitimate opposition has been entrenched in the United States since the early 19th century, disrupted only by the Civil War. That may now be changing, however, as right-wing extremists increasingly question the legitimacy of their liberal rivals. During the last decade, Ann Coulter wrote best-selling books describing liberals as traitors, and the “birther” movement questioned President Obama’s status as an American.
“Such extremism, once confined to the political fringes, has now moved into the mainstream. In 2008, the Republican vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin linked Barack Obama to terrorism. This year, the Republican Party nominated a birther as its presidential candidate. Mr. Trump’s campaign centered on the claim that Hillary Clinton was a criminal who should be in jail; and “Lock her up!” was chanted at the Republican National Convention. In other words, leading Republicans — including the president-elect — endorsed the view that the Democratic candidate was not a legitimate rival.
“The risk we face, then, is not merely a president with illiberal proclivities — it is the election of such a president when the guardrails protecting American democracy are no longer as secure.
“American democracy is not in imminent danger of collapse. If ordinary circumstances prevail, our institutions will most likely muddle through a Trump presidency. It is less clear, however, how democracy would fare in a crisis. In the event of a war, a major terrorist attack or large-scale riots or protests — all of which are entirely possible — a president with authoritarian tendencies and institutions that have come unmoored could pose a serious threat to American democracy. We must be vigilant. The warning signs are real.”

Try to keep up, Dudes, Dimockrazy started going down the tubes with Reagan …
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Nixon.
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Nixon was another sort of aberration … but it was Reagan who planted the seeds of Greedy Oligarchic Plutocracy that Trump is harvesting in our time.
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By my reckoning the past few decades, President Bill Clinton (1993-2001) codified President Ronald Regan’s A Nation at Risk (1983) as his Goals 2000, so as to impose standards-based school reform for achieving specific numerical goals, or outcomes.
Following that, President George W. Bush (2001-2009) then doubled down on Clinton with his No Child Left Behind, so as to now include incentivizing states to set and meet high standards by means of high-stakes, high-accountability testing with a focus on testing especially disadvantaged children.
Following that, President Barack Obama (2009-2017) then tripled down on Bush with his Race to the Top Competition, so as to now include inciting states to compete to win federal funds to commit to creating massive data collection systems, turning around so-called lowest performing schools, shifting from teacher-lead education to mostly technology-controlled instruction delivery, and expanding the variety and number of charter schools.
Now it is The Authoritarian’s turn; that is, president-elect Trump’s turn. With his wanting to have Betsy Devos to head USED, Trump clearly intends to quadruple down on Obama with an as yet unnamed catchphrase push for school choice and vouchers.
So, from Reagan to especially Clinton to Bush to Obama to Trump; clearly, the continuum that works progressively to undermine, cannibalize, and outright destroy our nation’s public education systems as democratic public goods and put in their place collections of privatized and corporatized schools as consumer market goods, with each school being its own profit center by which to succeed or fail as such.
“The Continuum” (hmm, a movie by this title?) comes as no surprise to those who have been awake at the wheel all the while.
Presciently, in his response to Goals 2000, Dr. W. Edwards Deming asked, as I recall: “What are you going to do about this foolishness?”
Just think where our country might be today if we had put a stop to Goals 2000.
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Yes, “Continuum” pretty well nailed it.
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Ed,
In the middle was the first President Bush and America 2000. It didn’t do much damage because it was never legislated or funded.
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Speaking of authoritarian tendencies….for eight years we have been lectured to by our “Hope and Change” president. The hope was long gone after the first four years (sorry Michelle, but its true) and then this feckless president continued the lecturing and blamed the American people for just not “getting it”.
This democracy has withstood far worse over the last 200 plus years and will survive Trump and possibly even improve the middle class now in crisis with new jobs, and world wide self respect that has been missing for eight years.
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Narcissists like Trump always seem to think their self-love magically induces respect in others, and maybe that works on some people, but it always ends with the whole world laughing at them and all their suckers.
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“…possibly even improve the middle class now in crisis with new jobs, and world wide self respect that has been missing for eight years.” Ha, ha, ha, you must be joking. Obama inherited the worst recession in 80 years, saved us from a depression, saved the auto industry and reduced unemployment. Trump and his gang of thugs will set us up for another deep recession or worse. Sure, they thought that Mussolini brought self respect back to Italy and we all know how that turned out. Lying vicious demagogues do not bring self respect back, they only disrupt, destroy and ruin what works.
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Tom Brown
I hope it is your sons that get to create that world wide respect. Not the sons of others.
The last guy that was going to teach the world respect, blew up the middle east after he negligently cost the lives of three thousand Americans because teaching Saddam Respect was more important than heeding the warnings of his intelligence service.
8000 and counting USA, USA,USA and tens of thousands crippled severely, physically and emotionally. Yup don’t let them diss you!!!!!
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Long live the REPUBLIC.
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What does “republic” mean to you? I thought a republic was any system of government that involved election of representatives. Here’s what Google yields: “a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president rather than a monarch”.
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Yes it will! It wouldn’t survive Hillary! 1% of her funds for her foundation were used for it. Wake up People!
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Judi: Give it up. It makes you look like an idiot.
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Please, Catherine, let’s be our own referees for civility.
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Janet: Okay. “It makes you (her) look like a person who doesn’t know what they are talking about and who is obsessing on Hilary (who–remember?–already lost the election). It kind of reminds me of those in the right-wing camp who are still harping” <–ooops, cross that out . . . “‘birthers’ who are claiming that Obama is not a real citizen and want to take it before Congress. If you want, we can get on with some real issues?”
Janet: How’s that?
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Catherine was spot on and being very civil. I would have said much worse regarding Judi’s silly comments.
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Joe: In all seriousness, Judi is right–and I appreciate both the call to self-correction and your supportive comment. I think we are all really feeling a terrible cloud forming over the nation–rooted in that awful UNCIVIL partisan contempt that flows from and is sparked in others by Trump. Not an excuse–just an explanation. .
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There’s another interesting piece from the New York Review of Books comparing Putin to Trump or Trump to Putin. It’s worth reading.
“Lying is the message. It’s not just that both Putin and Trump lie, it is that they lie in the same way and for the same purpose: blatantly, to assert power over truth itself.” …
“Both Trump and Putin use language primarily to communicate not facts or opinions but power: it’s not what the words mean that matters but who says them and when.” …
“The media is the mirror. Trump, like Putin, has a demonstrably thin skin and short temper when it comes to being criticized by journalists.” …
“It appears that Trump receives a view of the world that is vastly different from that not just of the “liberal bubble” but of the majority of Americans …”
“Taking charge of a boring world. The real-estate magnate and the KGB agent share a peculiar trait: both seem to be lazy and uninterested in the world they want to dominate.”
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/12/13/putin-paradigm-how-trump-will-rule/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=NYR%20Shirley%20Jackson%20Othello%20Trump%20and%20Putin&utm_content=NYR%20Shirley%20Jackson%20Othello%20Trump%20and%20Putin+CID_a7c83746b0315074e3af55f209a3757c&utm_source=Newsletter&utm_term=The%20Putin%20Paradigm
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“Taking charge of a boring world. The real-estate magnate and the KGB agent share a peculiar trait: both seem to be lazy and uninterested in the world they want to dominate.”
Satiated bullies, until they notice a scratch or scuff on their shoe.
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Our stupid billionaires and 0.01%-ers share responsibility for this. They need to divest their money and ideologies and take roles in cleaning this mess up.
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Bill and Melinda Gates and the Walton’s aren’t into cleaning up their messes. They funded the Ohio Alliance for Charter Schools, an organization that is now disbanding. The Alliance “shaped the state’s charter school policy”. (Dayton Daily News, Dec. 15, 2016, reporter Bill Bush of the Columbus Dispatch) Ohio has become a laughing stock of political pay to play, for-profit on-line schools with “mostly truant” students and fleeced taxpayers. In response, to the Frankenstein creation, the National Alliance for Charter Schools pointed out, “Ohioans should be outraged by the well-documented , disturbingly low performance of its e-schools”. In response, it appears, Gates and the Walton’s vacate/abandon their failures.
T’would be better had they never lived to destroy.
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I don’t actually expect them to divest themselves of their ideologies either. It is part of who they are.
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In my Bronx community the fear is what will happen to us now? The answer I believe is nothing. Certain communities have had to remain aware and vigilant throughout America’s existence in order to ensure basic fair treatment. Civil Rights era is a good case to this point. Kennedy and Johnson, were moved to do the right thing as a matter of political strategy. Strategy will have to be honed now, to keep the rights of marginal communities relevant. Most in my community thought Obama would make their lives an oasis. As an educator, Obama did not effect the burgeoning classroom size in the poorest, least educated communities. Obama’s presence did not make the world a better place for all the educators who voted for him. Rather the new common core and teacher report cards have made most classrooms a nightmare. I heard many a folk that voted for Mayor DiBlasio simply because his wife is black. Really, Educators?!!! Yep. Now New York’s classrooms are suffering like you would not believe as the same out of touch administrators continue their assault on seasoned teachers. Especially those who fight to keep special needs children in specially equipped classrooms; so they receive mandated services routinely. The new deal forces general ed. teachers to “deal with” children whose needs are beyond them. No official has helped here. Rather the situations are worsening.
My point is we just don’t know. I feel hopeful, only because the past has proved hopeless for mine. How will this president affect change in my community; who knows? I can only say that I can’t see how he will make matters worst for us. The little guys. The civil servants….American citizens without money who vote. It will be up to us again to stand vigilant…to protest…
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Excellent on-target article: Particularly relevant to the present North Carolina debacle is the following passage (my emphases):
“Democratic institutions must be reinforced by strong informal norms. Like a pickup basketball game without a referee, democracies work best when unwritten rules of the game, known and respected by all players, ensure a minimum of civility and cooperation. Norms serve as the soft guardrails of democracy, preventing political competition from spiraling into a chaotic, no-holds-barred conflict. . . . Among the unwritten rules that have sustained American democracy are partisan self-restraint and fair play.”
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If anything, Steven Levitsky and Daniel Ziblatt, have understated the problem. Trump and his gang of obscene plutocrats are a true and imminent danger to this country. It’s not just their ill will and evil machinations against this country but it is the sheer incompetence of people like Trump, Rick Perry and Ben Carson, etc., that is frightening beyond words and normal human comprehension. Because of his stupidity regarding government, democracy and the constitution, Trump could blunder us into another full blown war a la Bush the dumbfool. For sure, Trump and the GOP will bring on another major recession or depression, once Trumponomics is fully enacted. I have also understated the problem.
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I hope once they “revise or reform” Medicare, the deplorables wake up and start voting their own self interest and rid us of the narrow minded Tea Party. I hope the Democrats can get a few more members with a spine like Warren and Sanders. They are in dire need of some young leadership.
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Retired teacher: I thought the same thing–good, even excellent article; but not quite enough. Jerry Springer said this morning that it’s not a nightmare yet, but still very bad. (I never thought I’d say I liked what Springer would say.) The difference that will tip it into “nightmare” territory is when the blood starts flowing. Nothing is written in stone (yet), but we’ve seen very close hints of that already.
Also, the twitter guy was not invited to Trump’s meeting of business–people because Twitter wouldn’t add a little picture of “crooked Hillary” as a twitter icon, along with their smiley faces. Trump is a vindictive guy who likes Putin in Russia where 58 journalists were murdered (so far) under Putin’s “reign.” After witnessing some of Trump’s followers’ unreasonable and rabid attitudes, I have thought many times how narrow the gap is between what these two ego-maniacs (and their followers) will do to satisfy their hateful, shallow, vindictive natures.
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Joe
Hopefully all of the above asp.
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The fact that our “only” two choices were Clinton or Trump shows that democracy was already dead.
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Dienne, I don’t agree. Clinton was eminently qualified to be president. The rightwing attack machine has been out to get her since the early 1990s, and they succeeded. Trump won with the help of the KGB, the FBI, and the KKK.
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Dienne, I hope you saw Ariel Dorfman’s op-ed in today’s NYT about N.C., CIA meddling, and what needs to be done moving forward (not that it will). I think it sums up many of the discussions that have been taking place here, but rather than just complain, he offers recommendations to move forward. I think you and I and many of us can find agreement in his conclusions.
Dorfman knows what he’s writing about. His novels are as insightful as anything I’ve read about what it’s like to live under totalitarian and authoritarian regimes. One of his early novels, Widows, is as intense a description state-approved killing of dissidents that you’ll find.
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Whoops, link to article: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/16/opinion/now-america-you-know-how-chileans-felt.html?ref=opinion&_r=0
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Thanks for the link, Greg. We don’t need to beat ourselves up with our past actions, but we do need to learn from them. What we do now with the knowledge of our own past sins to keep from allowing them to be compounded is critical. We as a nation have held certain values that we have frequently done a poor job of honoring. That doesn’t make the values any less important; it just means we need to work harder to be true to them. That sounds incredibly naive even to my perpetually naive ears, but it is so important that we try to live up to them. It is so important that we nurture them in our children and that we hold ourselves and our representatives to them.
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The larger question is whether or not our democracy can ultimately survive the Republican party. The coup d’etat which is taking place in North Carolina right now, just as one example, has nothing to do with Mr. Trump. The Republicans in Congress paved the way for Mr. Trump’s rise. It is the Republican party which refuses to adhere to previously agreed-upon restraints.
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Very true. It’s not just Trump, who is already a disaster unto himself, but Trump plus the present day GOP party. The GOP is a radical far right wing movement determined to undo the New Deal and The Great Society and replace them with libertarianism, social Darwinism and survival of the fittest. In other words, they want to return us to the 1800s.
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The Tea Party arm of the Republican party has a “take no prisoners” mentality, Remember when the shut down the government costing billions.
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Yes–shut down the government. And everyone said: “No!–don’t you realize what will happen if you shut down the government!”
Yes–they do. That’s exactly what they want to do. I think there are some in the Tea Party who think that no government means that everything will be okay. Sheesus. These people may be well-meaning and even smart where lots of things are concerned. But politically, they are total ignoramuses. They forget or never really knew what it took to get what we have today, and how much they depend on it. These are the ones who say in the same breath: “Kill the government! But don’t take away my Social Security.”
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Then there are the one’s embrace anarchy wholeheartedly.
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Reblogged this on BLOGGYWOCKY and commented:
Well, I certainly hope our democracy can survive Trump.
It survived Nixon, after all.
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Nixon was incredibly bad, he was a crook and may have committed treasonous acts by secretly contacting the North Vietnamese before he became president. And yet, the top marginal tax rate was 70%, he created the EPA and he was not working overtime to destroy Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. Not that that obviates the crimes he committed.
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Zorba: Nixon committed a crime and got caught. Whereas Trump commits crime after crime, and gets away with it (and what else?). Not only that, Trump strikes at foundations of the democracy, and not only at specific laws (as the article suggests) and social protocols (he broke both of those, as example, with the bus-Bush admissions). When Nixon said that if the president does it, it cannot be breaking the law (paraphrased), he was “only” foreshadowing what is going on now in Trumptopia.
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Will Trump do away with his massive conflicts of interest?
Probably about the same time he releases his tax returns, on the 4th of Never.
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Yes–and worse foreboding than that is that so many people are willing to ignore or even to admire his lawless activities, vindictiveness, and intentions. There’s no talking to some of them–trying to talk makes you a hated target in their eyes. That, and the obvious historical comparisons, makes me sick to my stomach–not hyperbole.
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This is not a defense of Nixon, but we did get things like the elevation of the National Cancer Institute within the National Institutes of Health (the War on Cancer), the EPA, and most importantly of all, a final acceptance of constitutional procedure–after fighting it for years–to ultimately resign. There was some good with a lot of bad. Oh, and we had many Republicans who put country and Constitution before party. I’m having a hard time thinking of any good that will come from Trump or his enablers in Congress.
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GregB,
Nixon was not out to destroy the government. He read books. He listened to intelligence briefings. He hired Daniel Patrick Moynihan for welfare policy. He made some good appointments. He started affirmative action. He was smarter and wiser than DJT.
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Democracy certainly can survive, but what are the odds exactly given a major crisis?
Also, I fear the Trump precedency may give us all snarkolepsy.
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MINORITY president-elect trump …
https://georgelakoff.com/2016/03/02/why-trump/#more-4935
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Who wrote Obama’s Dec.16 hacking speech? Obama warned the anticipated perpetrator, Putin, of consequences, in Sept. but, didn’t prevent the hack? Obama didn’t
tell the political parties about his warning to Putin, so that they could add precautions? Does Russia have Republican e-mails that could be used for blackmail, in the future? Obama has one month to “seek revenge” then, Trump can undo his actions. Was the point of the speech to tell the 99% that, voting does not, a democracy, make?
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This was an excellent post, but the following questions need to be added:
Can this democracy survey a corrupt and lunatic GOP?
Can this democracy survive a corrupt and indifferent party known as the Democrats?
Can this democracy survive a corrupt media?
Can this democracy survive a lack of (but now slowly growing and mobilizing) collectivism and collectivist thinking embedded in the DNA of its individualistic culture?
Can it?
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As a psychologist and regular visitor of the United States since 50 years, I question Levitsky and Ziblatt’s hypothesis that American citizens have not grown more authoritarian. How do they know? Political scientists, as Obama in his recent statements, seem to overrate the power of formal structures. If people put the “system” into the hands of leaders who want to destroy it, it cannot not defend itself regardless how old it is. A democratic system holds only up only if a vast majority of people feels comfortable with it. If they feel overwhelmed by the challenges of democracy, they will vote for a strong leader who promises to think and to decide on their behalf.
According to my impression this majority is melting away. More people in the rust and bible belt feel overwhelmed by the challenges of democracy and, therefore, desire to free them from the need to think for themselves and to having discussions with oppontents. I found fewer people who were able to handle more than one opinion at a time though they had no problem to accept the changing truths of their changing idols. Studies show also that democratic ability is very low among US college students, especially when they attented faith-based colleges.
I believe that this loss of democratic ability is an effect of 50 years of reign of achievement tests in US schools. Achievement tests are a kind of cognitive dictatorship: a higher authority determines what is right and what is wrong. The individual gets punished every time he or she has equally true or even better answers. In speeded test the individual gets also punished if he or she takes time to think about the answer. The bottom line is: Achievement tests prepare the citizens for living under an autocratic regime, but not for living in a democracy. Democracy requires that citizens are able and willing to think on their own and to discuss controversial issues with opponents.
As early as 1836, Alexis de Tocqueville’s in his book “Democacy in America” predicted a switch of democracy to dictatorship if the country lets down its public educational system. It seems that the US did this for too long a time. If the United States wants democracy it will be of highest priority to rebuild its educational system — without achievement tests — in order to strengthen the individual citizens. Only citizens who are prepared to cope with democarcy will and can defend it, not the system.
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Georg: Well-said. And I loved that book. deTocqueville should be required reading for all HS seniors, and in the hands of a good teacher who knows what it’s about and how significant it is to their continued well-being–and especially not to take living in one for granted.. “Only citizens who are prepared to cope with democracy will and can defend it, not the system.” Yes, and children are not born with democratic intentions. They have to learn what it means to live in a democracy before they are allowed to live in one without parental or teacher control and direction.
Some Trump supporters that I know think “democracy” means “democrat” as distinct from “republican.” You could fill an ocean with the political ignorance that is: “Trump supporter.”
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Thank you for these comments. They spur me on to write in my blog. I read The Nation and get the impression many on the left feel that only their views can be taken into account. It’s as if no one else but the left-leaning lives in the country. The right-wing is much worse: the top tier manipulates out of competitive greed and the lower tier operates out of religious righteousness. Dominion Christianity is a real danger and one of its adherents, Ted Cruz, came close to winning the GOP nomination. IMHO, Hillary Clinton had all the tools plus the morals to benefit this country greatly, but because she did not toe the ideological line and kept on the sclerotic Democratic Old Guard, she got waxed. A great loss for the country. I am looking for the follow-up scholarship that will show she did nothing criminal or unethical so that all the Progressives who hate her so can wear sack cloth and ashes. Now we have Trump, a being whose warts are countless and poisonous. As part of the Black community, I look to see what shape the resistance will take. I may finally see what I’ve hoped for for a long time. I do hope those on the left will shed their ideological nitpicking, join the real world, and help take back the reins of power. .
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Pbarrett,
Your rational thinking shocks me. I have become accustomed to hearing people on the left refer to Hillary as a criminal, echoing Trump. They seem to want to lock her up too, because she dared to beat Bernie in the primaries. Bernie ran a great race, but he was not a Democrat and she beat him by 3 million votes. The Bernie or Bust folks cannot forgive Hillary. So now we have the most reactionary president in our history, and the Hillary-haters still condemn her. They don’t care if the Russians hacked our election to select Trump. So our president will be a vain, ignorant fool who surrounds himself with equally unqualified, inexperienced people.
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At a luncheon today a tablemate said she was going to Peru for the holidays and her family said people were lining up to ask her what had happened with the election, including a number of university professors. She planned to give them as many pov’s as possible and wondered what we thought. I told her to include the fact that Trump has a personality disorder and, apparently, a rather severe one. Lots of people have personality disorders and function in society, often at high levels, but what you have to remember is that such a person’s ability to learn from mistakes and deviate from their built-in strategies is limited. As is so often said these days, Trump will be Trump and those surrounding him will read him well and bend him to their will, including Putin.
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if you praise Trump, he will do anything for you, except give you his money or his tax returns.
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Were Bernie supporters, who failed to vote Democratic (in the states that influenced the election) large enough, in number, to influence the outcome? Or, was the significant impact (in the critical states), from (1) independents, who had cast Democratic ballots in the prior presidential election, and switched to Trump? (2) Brexit state voters, who were expected to vote Democratic, but, succumbed to Trump’s message about keeping jobs from going to Mexico? They weren’t champions or defenders of Bernie. (3) Minorities, who had voted Democratic in the past and stayed home. They weren’t champions or defenders of Bernie, either.
The Democratic Party blames Comey, Russian hacking, and Bernie.
Are they looking at the voting patterns objectively?
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Charlie Sykes, a conservative radio talk show host who is leaving his show, said Democrats in the Milwaukee heavily Democratic areas stayed home.
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It looks like more Democratic Party Electors are going to change their votes today than Republicans. If this happens, will it shock the Donkey Party so they will eject the neo-liberal, greed-is-good, nation-building-with-bombs, leadership that came to power with Bill Clinton and return to the foundation that helped elect Presidents, (FDR 4x) and representatives to Congress?
Donkeys are notorious for being stubborn.
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Lloyd, I think that it’s going to take way more than this to change the Democratic “powers that be” (including the DNC, the DCCC, the DSCC, and most of the currently elected Democrats) away from their neo-liberal, corporatist mind set.
Perhaps (only perhaps) term limits might help some, but that’s not going to happen.
I think that what we have to do (and I realize that this is a very, very long-term strategy) is work hard at the local, county, and state levels to support and elect Democrats who are not neo-liberals, who truly care about the common people and the poor people and the children, and who care about peace in our times, and hope that, as they work their way up to national politics, they will begin to make a difference.
I wish I had a quicker solution to this.
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Was he describing the city proper or, the metropolitan area? Is Milwaukee like other urban areas, where the demographic difference between the two, is significant?
Anecdotally, in Mich. and Ohio, labor Democrats, who didn’t vote for Hillary, disliked women, disliked feeling confined and powerless by political correctness, and hoped Trump would get them better jobs and pay. The Ohio caucus voters for Bernie appeared to be the young, who have a history of not voting in large numbers and, the older professionals, who ultimately voted for Hillary
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Sykes was talking about ‘heavily Democratic areas of Milwaukee County’ where HRC got 39,000 fewer votes than Obama. The political correctness you refer to, Linda, was nicely pointed up by Robert Jones, author of The End of White Christian America when he said that people in the Evangelical mode, as he is himself, feel that they cannot say things that were perfectly acceptable in their evangelical circles without being questioned; they would probably label it being taken to task. He says an evangelical friend of his made 3 statements in a phone call preceded by “it’s just common sense that….” and then went on to say something commonly believed only in Evangelical circles.
Which brings us to Avan. I find it comical that our first response as Liberals is to point out inconsistencies, hypocrisy, factual errors and conceptual errors on Avan’s part. Avan is totally uninterested in that. His issue is cognitive dissonance: the world is = should be a certain way and when and where it is not, correction must be provided, no matter the cost to truth (see Scottie Nell for the irrelevance of truth and fact). So I would wager that Avan believes to this day that Shirley Sherrod is a racist who hates White people despite the fact that the Breitbart “reworking” of a tape of her speech has been debunked in so many different ways. She is still an anti-White racist because Avan saw a tape of it, just like the thousands of Muslims in N.J. celebrating the 9/11 attack. Why? Because conservatives (and I include Black conservatives here, some of whom I know) have to believe that the world doesn’t live up to their expectations due to nefarious influences (thus the popularity of conspiracy theories on the right) rather than that some people just disagree with them.
This cognitive dissonance factor applies no less to the left.
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Pbarrett,
Interesting “nefarious causes vs. people disagreeing”.
IMO, evangelical women like authoritarian, patriarchs. Related to your comment- the message of external threat, keeps them united and good followers.
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Here’s the comment I made to this article:
Professors Levitsky and Ziblatt’s analysis of Mr. Trump’s corrosive impact on democracy overlooks one crucial element of Mr. Trump’s threat: his desire to privatize as many government functions as possible. Mr. Trump’s nomination of voucher advocate Betsy DeVos to Secretary of Education is a case in point. An avid proponent of replacing “government schools”, Ms. DeVos has no time whatsoever for school boards at any level, for THEY are the “government” in “government schools”. Moreover, in most communities the democratically elected Boards that govern school districts have a greater impact on property taxes than any other locally elected board. But locally elected school boards view themselves as guardians of the well-being of children and are not driven by the profit motive. Consequently these democratically elected boards tend to spend more freely than a business and, consequently, taxpayers need to pay more. This chain of events might be lost on government professors, journalists, and voters… but it is not lost on the businessmen who would love to pay lower taxes and are eager to make a profit by operating low overhead schools. In a democracy the well being of citizens is more important than the bottom line. In business, that is often not the case.
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I had a vivid dream last night of a New York Times front page that read: “School boards across the nation to be dissolved.”
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I find it comical that he says Trump advocated violence when there is video of DNC guys organizing thugs to bring violence to Trump rallies. Lots of videos of Trump supporters, at THEIR rally being chased, beat up and spat on by the dem mob.
And then the part about Trump doing business with Russia. Hello people, Bill spoke there, and Hill and Bill sold US uranium rights to Russia.
Oh and then the part about Trump maybe not accepting the election if he lost. Hmmmm, who is ACTUALLY now not accepting the election? First it was voting machines, then Comey and her emails, then the Russians. Now the electors are being threatened to not vote for Trump. Who’s not accepting the election?
The risk to our democracy is coming from the left who is trying to alter the recent democratic election (wasn’t Hillary appalled that Trump would ever doubt our 200+ year history of peaceful democratic elections) and shut down conservative media by claiming it’s fake.
All this false “terror” about an American businessman (No history of murdering people or wanting to) who ran the best campaign and now will be president is a little amazing to those of us who had our own concerns about Obamas progressive tendencies. But we didn’t riot, we didn’t threaten people, we didn’t need therapy dogs. We just got on with our lives and hoped for the best. THAT’S democracy. Your person doesn’t always win. Ya gotta deal with it.
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Avan –when Obama won, Republicans in Congress immediately vowed to prevent him from accomplishing anything. And they mostly succeeded. And Republicans spread the lie that Obama wasn’t born in America, thus rejecting the legitimacy of his election. Is that accepting the results of an election?
You mention a video of DNC guys organizing thugs. I’d love to see that. Could you provide a link?
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Certainly. The first is Dem operatives organizing the violence (I believe they were forced to resign after this came out) and the second link shows actual attacks on Trump supporters as they leave rallies.
http://vidmax.com/video/141315-Who-are-the-violent-ones-Compilation-shows-Donald-Trump-supporters-being-systematically-attacked-while-the-liberal-media-blames-them
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Seriously?! Vidmax is your source?Of course we should all believe a extremist right wing operation. Why don’t you do a little research into the credibility of vidmax. Come back when you have legitimate sources.
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Avan. Trump asserted loudly and often how the election was going to be “rigged” presumably against him, and with no evidence for why he thought so. Then we find, with evidence, that it WAS rigged, but FOR him. And as rigged, especially when at least some of the rigging was from the Russians, why would anyone, including Trump and you, NOT want the election to be questioned? You write as if you think smooth transitions are an ideology when they are not. Support of smooth transitions is based on the assumption that the elections were done with a modicum of integrity. Were they? NO.
About Obama haters–what was that birther thing that went on so long? And your normalization of Trump as just “an American businessman” is just plain funny, especially since I don’t think anyone, even you, believe that characterization. He is a fine example of what gives “business,” not to mention capitalism, its bad name. (Bloomberg’s speech at the Democratic convention put that puppy to bed anyway.)
Known or not to you, your note is filled with hypocrisy. In either case, you write with the skill of a true sophist. For instance, all that false fear that Trump fostered in his followers, including the twist of the “rigged election” debacle above, and we (including you) are not supposed to fear the mounting analogies to the Rise of Hitler, the lies piled upon lies, the real evidence that Trump is a true know-nothing, and that he is setting about as we speak to break down and destroy the Constitution and all that it stands for from its inception?
My own and others’ fear is far from “false,” but has a real source. Trump could use a few of Obama’s oh-so-feared (ha ha) “progressive tendencies.”
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Hypocrisy, yes, definitely, Catherine.
And as pbarret said later today, “cognitive dissonance.”
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What is the “actual evidence” that Russia rigged the election to help Trump?
What evidence do you have that Trump has desires to exterminate a group of people (as Hitler) or destroy the constitution?
As for ACTUAL vote rigging, thanks to Ms Stein we now know that Detroit had way more votes than people…so that’s the kind of thing Trump was worried about. Had we checked all cities, there might have been more.
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Alan,
Why don’t you ask the CIA? They seem to have persuaded everyone but you. Even FOX news.
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Avan: Evidence for rigging on Trump’s side (need we go over this again?): (a) the CIA, (b) the FBI and (c) several other agencies came to this conclusion as reported in several mainstream press. I don’t think these folks are always correct or even always on the right track; but more than not, they are so; (d) no Trump e-mails or the Republican party headquarters were hacked; nor did Wikileaks “leak” anything damaging from Trump–it was all about Hillary.
But you are right–I haven’t see murder yet–just a pile of analogies that led up to murder, namely, in Germany; and then his admiration of men who are known to do such things, including to murder journalists; then his xenophobia. The question is, when does admiration turn to emulation?
The destruction of the Constitution? You can start with his disregard of the emoluments clause now and at the moment of his taking the oath; then his constant disregard for the rule of law; the rights of others, and the protocols surrounding the Constitution and the presidency. The topper is his cabinet picks. I won’t go into those–their history of legislation and their attitudes about, for instance, science, have been listed here before. Have you been hiding under a rock somewhere; or are you just trying to get me to waste my time trying to convince someone who is dead set on ignoring the psychopathology before us?
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Hacking does not prove influence or “rigging”. Which leaked Podesta email changed people’s minds?
And if Obama was aware of this long before the election, why didn’t he do anything about it then? Where was the outrage then? Only once Hillary lost was this an issue.
And why wouldn’t the CIA brief the electors on this issue?
Btw, Fox News realizes the Russians have been hacking us for a long time. Most do not see that as evidence that it caused Hill to lose. Most say she was just a bad candidate. Anyway, here’s CNNs take.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2016/12/12/opinions/russia-role-shocking-but-not-hacked-douglas/index.html?client=safari
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Avan,
Hillary won nearly three million votes more than Trump. The far-right has demonized her for 25 years. She is neither corrupt nor crooked. Her emails were never a scandal. Were Colin Powell’s emails a scandal? Powell used a private server. Trump is a fool.
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Catherine-were you concerned about emoluments regarding Hillary as SOS and hubby giving speeches to foreign contries and receiving rather “hefty” payment? Read Clinton Cash. It’s how the Clintons got so rich, 8x what other retired presidents made after office.
I agree Trump has some conflicts of interest. But. What the Clintons did is far worse than what I worry about Trump doing.
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Avan says: “I agree Trump has some conflicts of interest. But. What the Clintons did is far worse than what I worry about Trump doing.”
And there lies the problem. Your “some conflicts of interest” mirrors Trump’s egregious absence of understanding of ( or care about) the significance of the law and the Constitution for this country and its history, not to mention protocols, which are there for good reason–like the absence of Trump’s tax returns and so our knowledge of how tied up with kleptomaniac oligarchs he is. Do you think he didn’t show it to us because its really an example of a sterling character and financial integrity?
Just because of that alone, it’s clear to me you have no idea what you are talking about. Because of that, your “Clinton’s are far worse” comment smacks of not only willful ignorance, but a bevy of biases, neither of which I can argue about with any sense of being involved with an open-minded person. It’s no wonder to me that immediate contempt and logical fallacies are the methods of madness of so many Trump followers..
But such brushing-over of conflicts of interest reduces a blatant breach of the Constitution (emolument clause) to “ho hum,” “so what,” and to a canned and childish, sing-song response: “the Clinton’s did it so Trump can. Na-na-na-na.” For centuries, people with great honor and integrity, and with an abiding love of country and its Constitution, have willingly died for what Trump thinks, at most, is a bother and a hindrance to his “deals.”
I doubt Trump even knows the difference between being a president and being a CEO. Recently, one of his children said that being president was a come-down for his dad; and he didn’t even understand the implications of what he was saying–or he wouldn’t have said it–and if you don’t then, again, there lies the problem—capitalism as a mindset has become what it means to be an “American.” Nor does Trump know what being a CEO with a sense of personal integrity is. To him, having a sense of personal integrity is a weakness–the stuff of losers. He doesn’t even pretend or aspire to a higher level of thought.
Like you (probably) with democrats, I never liked much of the politics of republicans, and I was embarrassed by Bush and disgusted with his vice president and the money-and-power grubbing cronies that surrounded the White House, and the entrance of the Patriot Act was no less than a chilling experience for me and many others, including librarians, of all people. But none of those republicans made me literally sick to my stomach, kept me in a state of eye-rolling outrage for more than a year, or made me think the whole democratic experiment could quite possibly and finally come to an end–and at the hands of a manipulative megalomaniac idiot who never knew a self-reflective thought.
But of course, we cannot blame Trump and those who people his court, at least not wholly. Rather, it’s “the people” who voted for him and, I am not afraid to say, who are deeply disturbed, totally blind to their own biases, fearful, full of contempt and sometimes hate,and, above all, politically naive (ignorant); and that combination is, again in history, dangerous indeed. I’ll not respond to you again–I see it as hopeless.
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They say war is God’s way of teaching Americans geography. A total takeover of the federal government by Republicans may be a way of teaching Americans about the economy, foreign affairs, etc. We did not learn from Bush 2, but let’s look at Trump’s alpha male appointments: Education goes to a woman because children are women’s work; the “foreigner”, Nikki Haley, goes to the U.N.; since White people are all hard workers and buy their own houses, its only the Blacks who need help with housing, so Housing goes to the Black guy. But alpha male jobs like Energy, Defense, Security, Labor, and State go to other alpha males.
The story goes that the owner of a recalcitrant mule wanted the mule trained, so he called in a professional. The trainer walked up to the mule and whacked him in the head with a 2X4. Why? To get his attention. So maybe now that kid who sat in the back row in Government class in h.s. will pay attention after a few years of Trump. There’s your silver lining, Liberals & Progressives.
And Jefferson (Davis) Beauregard Sessions? Law and order all the way. If only he’d been here in 1776, we’d still be in the Empire, until the slaves rose up. See? Law and order is what either holds us together or down, depending on your pov.
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pbarret: nice narrative. I can be warmed by everything you say in it . . .but then there is the post-bomb, universe of technology to consider.
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Catherine, why the hostility to capitalism? I have lived in this country for 75 years now and have seldom found anyone who despised capitalism per se (of course, I live in AZ). Where does this come from? I’m really curious b/c so many people I agree with on many issues, like you, have this hostility I do not understand. Right wingers have not read Adam Smith (neither have I) who said that the free market needs regulation. Where would Western European safety nets and services be without capitalism to create the wealth to pay for those? Really, really curious b/c I find this anti-capitalism “thing” everywhere now and mostly from people who enjoy the fruits of same. .Maybe I’m reading too much into your comment “capitalism as a mindset has become what it means to be an “American.”
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pbarret: Thank you for bringing this up. I wouldn’t want to be misunderstood on this crucial point: “Where does this (hostility to capitalism) come from? I’m really curious b/c so many people I agree with on many issues, like you, have this hostility I do not understand.”
Let me clarify–I cannot speak for others, but I have NO hostility towards capitalism. I happen to think it has great potential and is even necessary to the human spirit. What I DO have hostility for are the abuses of it–which we are presently drowning in.
It’s basically greed and very, very personal. It’s apparently also now accompanied by an Ayn Randian-type arrogance, self-adulation, and a contemptuous and manipulative attitude towards other-ilk others–certainly not a “love of others” viewpoint. You don’t need a theory to understand THAT part of the human condition. But if you do, look to Plato’s Republic for a general “picture” of what capitalism-gone-wild looks like and, on the other hand, its relationship to a tempered and ordered culture. (Capitalism is a relatively new term, so you have to make transitions when looking back over 2000 years–but it clearly speaks to our time.) But like Plato, my hope for democracy is waning as we speak.
Also, it’s more than abuse and greedy arrogant people. In terms of what I would call movements of cultural psychology (a long history of analysis here), we are involved in a kind of capturing of the mind by capitalist principles–but again, not those principles as such or in abstraction, but as abusive, brings about a reduction, forgetting, or perhaps even an erasure of the greater-context principles that are generated merely by being and developing as human in a human culture–sort of like one of those baby birds who intrudes, and then push the babies of the mother bird out of the nest. Capitalism arises from those more comprehensive principles and, only as being wrongly understood and applied, takes over the nest. Another metaphor: It’s kind of like the snake eating its tail, if you see what I mean? We can lose consciousness of what is right and good about being human, and put in its selective and rejecting place, capitalistic thought.
Capitalism, rightly understood and implemented, also has a long history, and is about certain operations and functions in a culture, mostly economic. But wrongly understood and implemented, it becomes a cancer, or an ideological ceiling where the capitalist-saturated mind is set to value nothing that doesn’t fall under its cover. Here’s its bumper sticker: If it doesn’t make money, it’s insignificant and doesn’t have value.
Capitalism, as abused is a cancer on the body-politic, not to mention on the body-spiritual/moral/social, and is what I meant by writing: ““Capitalism as a mindset has become what it means to be an ‘American.’”
Enter, as you say, Adam Smith, whose “Wealth of Nations” book is well-read, but also has a obscure (or obscured?) companion book that Adam Smith meant for all to read, at least as well as the other one. It’s quite long and detailed, and is about the moral sentiments. The tempering of capitalism could come from an understanding and implementation of the principles developed in that book. Alas . . . .
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Catherine, I agree. It’s not capitalism per se that is at fault, it is the abuses of capitalism run amuck.
Yes, of course, the owners of businesses need to make money in order to keep their businesses going, and growing, pay their workers, and return profits to their owners/shareholders.
But when they start to implement strategies that are bad for everyone else besides themselves, when they try to destroy unions, fight against any minimum wage increases, fight against any regulations that would protect our workers and our environment, just so they can make more money, then they are working against the interests of the country as a whole.
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Zorba: Yes–“working against the country as a whole.” And more: their abuses of capitalism are antithetical to capitalism’s survival itself. Not only does wealth become stagnant, and not only do the “under-classes” (hate that term) suffer for the imbalance and calcification of power, but (as FDR knew so well) the one-way movement (to the 1%, rather than being circular) tends towards the fostering of revolution in what turns out to be the increasingly oppressed among us.
A good read on this is Albert Memmi’s “The Colonizer and the Colonized,” not to mention the Declaration of Independence, which can be read in a “we’ve had enough of this” context.
Just for fun, below are the first paragraphs of (1) the Declaration of Independence and (2) the U.S. Constitution by which we measure ourselves as history goes on, at least for the present.
DECLARATION of INDEPENDENCE: “When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.”
U.S. CONSTITUTION: “when in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, . . . “
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OK. I recently read Francis Fukuyama’s 2 volume work on social order that got me excited about how societies govern themselves and what goes wrong – and it usually goes wrong and ends up in violence. When I taught government, I emphasized that there is nothing holding our society and government together except the willingness to work together on common goals and try to persuade others to join us. Kids have a hard time understanding that b/c they are used to authoritarianism (parents and teachers). What we have now is huge numbers of Americans who have been persuaded to usher in an authoritarian surrounding himself with authoritarians who will seek to punish (their preferred method of dominating others) those who do not conform to their wishes. The answer to fake news is not censorship but having an educated population that sees through it. DeVoss and Company wish to impose conformity; that’s why they want to get rid of public schools governed by local communities and to use religion to instill conformity. That just might backfire on them. The original revolutionary was guess who?
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I listened to part of a recent public radio broadcast that fits in with what you are saying, pbarret. I wish I had heard the entire thing, but only caught part of it while driving. In essence, the discussion was about the dichotomy between our form of government, democratic, and our economic system, which is authoritarian/autocratic. On the job, we are told what to do, and if we don’t like it, we are free to quit (or be fired). We don’t get to choose/vote for our bosses. The problem arises in that certain people have immense economic power which they can use to influence policy decisions/legislators during the time when the rest of us have returned to the workaday world of supporting ourselves and our families. The super rich, however, have armies of people dedicated to protecting their power and wealth. Legislators, who we elected, are vulnerable to the persuasive lobbying of the influential; their future in private life may very well depend on how “nice” they are to those who can offer them lucrative careers in the future.
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OK. To Lloyd: you took my “authoritarian” comment about teachers a little too literally. I was referring to the way students, when asked to formulate a discipline plan for their fellows, frequently promote draconian punishments; kids are used to being told what to do and assume society works that way. They don’t get the dynamics of a society. I suspect some of our fellow citizens think the same way: like a 14 year old.
To 2old2teach’s comment: Dana Milbank wrote a chilling column on just who is affected by Trump’s draconian cuts to the federal budgets and Obamacare: it hits most the people who voted for Trump, the ones who say now, “We didn’t take him literally.” Now Bill O’Reilly will tell them to stop whining, they should have stayed in school, etc. Liberals and Progressives, of course, will seek to help people in need, people who fall into the Constitution’s “general welfare” part, not just the nice family down the street you happen to know and who attends the same church you do: that’s charity, not the general welfare.
As Richard Cohen wrote: Trump may not be Hitler but we may be Germany. What will it take to suspend civil liberties? One huge terrorist attack on our soil, that’s what (= Reichstag fire).
The last time civility disappeared in governance here we would up with a civil war that killed over 600,000. It can happen. When people combine to achieve security and prosperity, they may trample on some among them, e.g. the slaves in our own country. That’s what our Constitution is for, to protect all citizens and even non-citizens on our soil. Trump is against all of that and will gladly undo the progress won by blood since 1865…. and 1965.
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To Trump, the U. S. Constitution is just a piece of disappearing paper.
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Children don’t need parents or teachers to show them how to be mean.
William Golding’s “The Lord of the Flies” is the perfect example of what happens when children raise children and/or TV and video games are part of that formula.
“According to census data in 2011, over 4 million children were left without supervision for more than 6 hours every week on average … Unsupervised time can make children independent and sometimes can lead to challenges and negative outcomes. School performance tends to be lower in latchkey children. Some studies show the number of latchkey students doing poorly in school is as high as 51%.”
How TV affects your child:
But too much screen time can be a bad thing:
Children who consistently spend more than 4 hours per day watching TV are more likely to be overweight.
Kids who view violent acts on TV are more likely to show aggressive behavior, and to fear that the world is scary and that something bad will happen to them.
Teens who play violent video games and apps are more likely to be aggressive.
Characters on TV and in video games often depict risky behaviors, such as smoking and drinking, and also reinforce gender-role and racial stereotypes.
http://kidshealth.org/en/parents/tv-affects-child.html
“TV viewing among kids is at an eight-year high. On average, children ages 2-5 spend 32 hours a week in front of a TV—watching television, DVDs, DVR and videos, and using a game console. Kids ages 6-11 spend about 28 hours a week in front of the TV.”
http://www.med.umich.edu/yourchild/topics/tv.htm
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“Kids have a hard time understanding that b/c they are used to authoritarianism (parents and teachers).”
Not all parents and/or teachers are “authoritarians,” and who has more influence with a child?
There are different parenting styles and only one is authoritarian. Studies report that about a quarter of parents practice the authority parenting style. The same is true of teachers.
https://my.vanderbilt.edu/developmentalpsychologyblog/2013/12/types-of-parenting-styles-and-how-to-identify-yours/
One size does not fit every parent.
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2015/12/17/parenting-in-america/
And from Concordia University, What is Your Teaching Style? 5 Effective Teaching Methods for Your Classroom.
“Although it is not the teacher’s job to entertain students, it is vital to engage them in the learning process. Selecting a style that addresses the needs of diverse students at different learning levels begins with a personal inventory — a self-evaluation — of the teacher’s strengths and weaknesses. As they develop their teaching styles and integrate them with effective classroom management skills, teachers will learn what works best for their personalities and curriculum.”
http://education.cu-portland.edu/blog/teaching-strategies/5-types-of-classroom-teaching-styles/
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Responding to him is truly hopeless, Catherine. His mind is made up and set in concrete.
He’s not worth your time or energy.
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I disagree. There must be a literate, rational, fact-based (not cherry picked) response to obvious, deplorable, Alt-Right, Little Fingers (aka: Donald Trump) loving trolls; not for them, but for other readers who are still being educated about what’s going on. There are millions of Americans with open minds that are not awake to what’s going on yet. If one ends up in a thread with a comment left by Little Fingers lovers, then there should be a response following their comment, a response designed to educate other readers and not the troll.
It is our duty to respond at least once to these set-in-concrete, ignorant with blinders on, racist and/or hating Alt-Righters that worship at Little Fingers feet, and then ignore them when they come back with more misinformation and drivel and nonsense from the Alt-Right misinformation, hate-media machine.
We are at war with hate and ignorance, and when they fire a volley, we must respond but with rational precision.
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Lloyd: it must be important to Trump to media-bash. He does it in most of his “rallies.” Again, it fuels the Jim-Jonsian mentality among his followers. The core meets every objection with protective contempt and even hate. The mantra: Don’t bother the master with your lies.
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Lloyd, Catherine has responded more than once to him, with her well-thought-out comments.
After a certain point, we have to realize that some commenters, such as Avan, are basically trolls, and if you keep responding to them, it just gives them more of an excuse to keep trolling.
Sometimes, ignoring the trolls is the way to go, because it frustrates them when they are totally ignored and do not receive any responses.
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We can respond to an obvious troll by not directing our comment to them but, instead, to refer to them and write the comment for everyone else but them.
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Yes, I’ve done that before, myself.
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Zorba: I guess I am a die-hard optimist. Quality or not, it’s a comportment I share with many teachers. Sigh . . . .
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2old2teach. A video is a video. Here is some from Washington Post. Either way, it’s on video. Would like to find some from left wing sites, but they would never post it.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/06/03/ugly-bloody-scenes-in-san-jose-as-protesters-attack-trump-supporters-outside-rally/?client=safari
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No, a video is not just a video. If you have no idea how they can be used to create a wanted response, even if not doctored, I don’t know what to say to you. Do I doubt that some Trump supporters have been attacked over the course of the campaign and election? No! Such events have been documented. Are they occurring at a level that demands nationwide outrage? No. Trump supporters beating up on minorities and immigrants does. Racist and xenophobic hatred go against what we purport to value as a nation. Trump is far from an example of what an American president should represent.
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Really, a left wing site would never post it? Hasn’t the Washington Post been labeled an element of the liberal, alleged lying, media by the Alt-Right conservative misleading, serial, lying (alleged doesn’t fit here) hate media machine?
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Hahahahaha! Lloyd, despite what the right-wingers keep maintaining, the Washington Post hasn’t been “liberal” for years.
They completed their turn to a more conservative mind-set in the early 90’s under Executive Editor Leonard Downie, Jr., culminating with their beating the drum for the invasion of Iraq.
And it’s been all downhill since then.
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Why did Donald Trump revoke the media credentials of a Washington Post reporter during the campaign?
Why does The Washington Post publish Valarie Strauss who has written and published many posts/pieces supporting the traditional public schools and or revealing the lies and misinformation of the corporate education industry’s privatization-for-profit agenda?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/people/valerie-strauss/?utm_term=.65fa455e2efc
It’s obvious that The Washington Post is not as far right as the Alt-Right and Donald Trump want it to be.
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While that’s entirely true, Lloyd, they are certainly not nearly as left as they were during the Pentagon Papers/Watergate time, with the Woodward and Bernstein revelations, and with Katharine Graham as the Publisher.
Still, I will acknowledge that they are to the left of the spectrum when compared to “news” outlets like Fox News.
But then, it’s a low bar nowadays. 😦
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It seems as if everything has shifted to the right. What was once considered conservative is now called liberal by the extreme Alt Right.
Truman supported socialized health care and failed.
LBJ was successful with Medicare but he had help. There was major grass roots support from seniors and the pressures assumed the proportions of a crusade. In the entire history of the national health insurance campaign, this was the first time that a ground swell of grass roots support forced an issue onto the national agenda.
The Nixon administration’s national health insurance proposal is a clear forerunner of the Clinton plan; the Republican counter to the Clinton plan, sponsored by Republican Senators Bob Dole (R-KS) and John Chafee (R-RI), is now known as Obamacare.
Obamacare started out as a Republican idea. Imagine what would happen to Teddy Roosevelt today if he ran for president.
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Teddy would be considered a wild-eyed liberal today. (Except perhaps for his “speak softly but carry a big stick” thing.)
Heck, the Republicans wouldn’t even nominate Dwight Eisenhower today, for pity’s sake.
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I’ve read that even Ronald Reagan wouldn’t gain the support of the far Alt Right.
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