I planned to post this as a comment but it grew into a full-blown post. One of our daily readers, named Joe, voted for Bernie in the primaries but then supported Hillary in the general election. He wrote a comment a few hours ago urging other readers to stop criticizing and demonizing Hillary and to recognize the present danger to our nation.
I responded to Joe as follows:
Thanks, Joe. I too am tired of people continuing to kick Hillary. What’s the point? There’s no doubt in my mind that Comey handed the election to Trump. I recently read an article that said the FBI is known internally as Trumplandia. His intervention 11 days before the election was unprecedented and highly prejudicial to her campaign.
This <a href=”http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/12/08/what-james-comey-did/”>article</a> sums up my view: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/12/08/what-james-comey-did/
I don’t understand the deep-seated hatred that some people have for Hillary Rodham Clinton. I think they unconsciously imbibed 25 years of Republican attacks on her. She is a good person. She would have sought out people of distinction for her cabinet, not extremists, ideologues, and retreads.
I was prepared to support either Bernie or Hillary. After she won the primaries, I supported her, like you.
Yes, she did win the primaries. She collected 400 delegates more than Bernie, without the superdelegates. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/us/elections/primary-calendar-and-results.html?_r=0
She won 3.7 million <a href=”https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries,_2016″>votes more than Bernie</a>.
Yet some of his most fervent supporters still say the primaries were rigged and Bernie was cheated.
That is not true. A difference of 3.7 million votes is not a close call.
The detractors have become nihilistic, and now insist that Hillary and Trump No different. They can believe whatever they want, but this is ridiculous. Trump is ignorant of governance and policy. He has skipped most of the daily intelligence briefings that he is supposed to receive. His co-author says he doesn’t read. He blatantly lies (in his rally yesterday, he claimed he had won in a landslide, even though Hillary is ahead 2.5 million in the popular vote). Mitt Romney was right when he said during the primaries that Trump was a con man and a fraud. Worse, Trump has given new life to the “Alt-right” (neo-Nazis) with his disparaging comments about every group that is not white, Christian, and able-bodied.
Hillary, by contrast, is a woman of dignity and intellect. Unlike Trump, she was not born with a silver spoon in her mouth. She is well-educated. She went to public schools before going to Wellesley. She is experienced and knowledgeable. She would not have embarrassed the nation.
She lost. It’s one for the history books.
And now the half of the nation that didn’t vote for Trump must hope and pray that he doesn’t harm the economy, that he doesn’t withdraw the safety net that protects our most vulnerable citizens, that he is not able to privatize public education, and that his hawkish national security team doesn’t embroil us in another war.
Lets look forward and fight to save our public schools, to defend the social safety net, to defend health insurance for those who need it, and to keep our nation to its ideals and promise. There will be another election in two years, and another one in four years. We must organize and be prepared. Our time will come. And when it does, we will drain the swamp of lobbyists, conflicts of interest, nepotism, cranks, zealots, extremists, rightwing anarchists, and neo-Nazis.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
I am in Florida, and as I travel I listen to people. They all sing the same song, which is filled with the memes about Hillary. To me, this indicates that the fake news that hammered her found a home.
This nation’s election was determined by people who had figured out how to use the internet. They already owned television and the news media.
Comey was only the final blow.
To listen to the noise coming from that psychopath makes me ill.
Susie…with his behavior in the last 48 hours, it will be a miracle if he does not get us into war. First his stupid fawning call with Pakistan’s PM, and today with the Prez of Taiwan, and insulting China who is our ‘most favored nation trading partner’…and of course interaction with the bully and murderer on the Phillipines…he is breaking and torturing all the protocols of state. Conway and Bannon are his Himmler and Goering. It is very frightening to see so much go so wrong so fast. He is over reaching since he has not even been sworn in yet and should not be doing a damn thing except learning his job. A nightmare.
Comey should be banished for causing all this.
War and recession may be the saving grace for the American people, the sooner the better. I still haven’t given up hope for the meteor as well.
Thanks Diane. At this point, we have no choice but to move forward, contact our legislators by whatever means and hope that some of them, at the least, get the message that privatization and vouchers (whether for education or the social safety net) are not the way to go.
Joe,
You mentioned that you are in Jersey. Who are you contacting?
I’m still pondering it but……….Booker, Menendez, Chris Smith, Bonnie Watson Coleman and anybody else that I can think of. It doesn’t hurt to remind the Democrats. Doesn’t have to be just NJ.
Start with the 21st century cures act. Good luck with Booker and Menendez .
Probably most effective to contact those Dems who are up for election and let them know how you expect them to vote….to get your vote. Booker is a Repub in Dem clothing.
“And now the half of the nation that didn’t vote for Trump must hope and pray…”
Given that somewhere shy of 50% of eligible voters voted and considering that Trump got less than half of those who did, claiming a landslide is ludicrous. Over 75% of the nation did not choose Trump. There has got to be a coalition in that 75+%. Add in the Trump supporters who discover that he is not the man they thought he was, and we have a chance to move in a different direction. Jill Stein’s efforts to conduct recounts show a willingness to build a coalition. Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren among others have shown a similar readiness. It’s time to start rebuilding.
If Jill Stein were interested in building coalitions, she would have ended her candidacy and endorsed Hillary. I am perplexed as to why she is raising so much money to fight for a doomed cause. Where were all these anti-Electoral College Democrats prior to the election?
And if Johnson didn’t run, where were his votes going, certainly not to Hillary . Stein had next to nothing to do with this loss.
Stein — and her supporters — had everything to do with her loss.
Their constant repeating of the alt right memes about corrupt Hillary are exactly the reason those memes got traction. If it had ONLY been the far right crazies repeating them, the press would have treated them as the propaganda they were.
But because the left was repeating them as well, they had to be true. Hillary was corrupt in a way that no candidate has ever been corrupt in the history of the US! Every action was put in the worst possible light because the left was telling the media it was correct. Instead of that being far right propaganda, it became the TRUTH. Because the left said it was true.
Hillary stole the primary. I couple selected e-mails — not the ones that said we have to have a fair primary, but anything where any staffer said anything slightly negative about Bernie — became signs of corruption! It was’t the ACTIONS, it was words taken out of context to “prove” something that actions didn’t prove at all.
It’s exactly like the FBI investigation and foundation. The actions were above board, but if there was any snippet that could look like someone even considered a problematic action, the left jumped on it as the same kind of “lock her up” as the right did.
I’m surprised you Hillary haters don’t attend those Trump rallies and keep up the shouts of “lock her up”. After all, you obviously agree.
Stein just shut down the Penn. recount…said she didn’t have enough cash to do it.
I can’t believe Stein shut down the recount. She had tons of money and she should have posted the bond and moved it forward.
It’s not about Hillary winning. It is about keep elections fair and honest. There needs to be a close look at the ballots to make sure they match up with the numbers who voted. And there needs to be a comparison of counties with paper ballots with ones without to make sure there wasn’t a huge Trump vote in the ones without paper ballots that wasn’t mirrored in the ones that did have them.
I’m disappointed in Jill Stein. She had the money and should have used it for what it was donated for.
Apparently there has been quite a bit of activity to make the process more difficult. I’m not sure we can say she has enough money to do a recount in three states since the cost seems to be a bit of a moving target.
Three fourths of the electorate did not vote for Mister Trump: 46% abstained, 26% voted for Mrs. Clinton. Approximately three fourths.
Agreed and that has to be hammered home
I entirely agree with you, Diane. Thank you for posting this, and thank you to Joe also.
The blog Daily Kos has a similar post written by its founder. It’s worth reading although it still got some of the typical “Hillary is just evil’ replies.
As someone who voted for Bernie in the primary, I was shocked by the people on here — purportedly liberals — who could not stop repeating the alt right (I should really say Nazi-right) memes against Hillary. If you tried to defend her in the least, you were accused of being a knee jerk apologist of the “Hillary can do no wrong” sort.
And the chutzpah of the people who did nothing but repeat that Hillary was no different than Trump ad nauseam now saying “see, we told you she’d lose” makes me ill. Their anger and support for the Hillary is a crook crowd gave license to the media to repeat those lies, because “even the Democrats” knew how corrupt she was. And that filtered down to the last minute voters not paying much attention who figured that since evil Hillary “normalized” corruption, it’s not a big deal for Trump to do it. Especially when the FBI was investigating her.
Russ Feingold had FEWER votes than Hillary Clinton did. That’s a fact. There is no reason to think that Bernie would have gained more, especially after he was subject to the kind of attacks that Hillary was. Imagine if the Hillary supporters had all joined in on the attacks on Bernie to help him lose Wisconsin?
Even with the recounts, you still hear from some of the Bernie supporters that the Democrats were corrupt in the primary. Although sometimes I think they are just Russian trolls and aren’t Bernie supporters at all.
All those attacks just NORMALIZE the Republicans and allow them to get away with what we are seeing. It’s okay that Trump is corrupt because look how corrupt Hillary and the Dems are.
I wonder how the people who kept posting that Trump would not be any worse than Hillary feel now. Although what’s sad is that so many of them still believe it. And if they do, then I don’t think there is any talking to those people. They are no different than the rabid Trump supporters and they are no longer living in the reality community.
Don’t you ever get a new thought? It is so boring and irritating to read continually your self serving pissing and moaning. After the endless weeks of your same harping, I personally don’t give a damn if you think all Bernie voters were trolls for Trump and Putin. That is so sick and shows such lack of reasoning skills.
Most Bernie supporters here are mainly educators who do not hide behind pseudonyms…and they are verifiable, but you, NYC shill, are just another loud mouthed troll yourself. You come in here to disrupt and finger point, and do not have a single positive thought.
I am responding to the topic of Diane’s post. I find it weird that you – a Hillary voter – disagree so strongly. And you keep putting lies in my mouth in a way that is worthy of Trump – I never said “all Bernie voters were trolls for Trump and Putin”. I am responding to people like ALLEN who posts on here and you take it all personally.
Here, I can make you happy: Let’s keep demonizing Hillary! She is evil. She is corrupt. And so is her husband. We have already experienced the most corrupt Clinton regime ever. So what’s the big deal with Trump anyway. If we survived 8 years of the most corrupt Clinton regime ever, we don’t need to do a darn thing about Trump. Just keep bashing me for thinking that Hillary wasn’t completely corrupt. It’s all my fault and voters like me who just didn’t realize that we were supporting an evil woman who was just as bad as Trump. It’s all our fault she lost. We didn’t bash her enough!! We defended her!! We should have been attacking her so the perfect Bernie was the candidate because he would miraculously win those same Wisconsin voters who rejected Russ Feingold. Because Bernie would have appealed to them where Russ didn’t because Russ was (“corrupt” “a sell-out” “just a bad candidate who won the primary by cheating” – you can fill in blank with your answer for why Bernie would win when Russ had fewer votes than Hillary despite not having a Jill Stein opponent)
You have some intense dislike for me, Ellen, and I’m sorry about that because I have often supported you in the past. If I post, you respond as if I am directly talking about you. Even though you despise me, I will still post my agreements with you when you post something sensible. And will continue to do so even as you continue to call me the same kinds of nasty things that we heard in this campaign.
I do have a solution. To fight the right wing propaganda machine that turned Hillary Clinton — someone who just might have fought for the progressive ideas that you believe in — into a demon.
If we don’t start recognizing the real enemy — the people who don’t believe in truth — then we will never win.
Hillary has flaws as does Bernie and Warren and every other candidate. It takes a right wing propaganda to turn them into evil. And they will do it to the next Democrat too if we allow it.
Ehhh, not so sure I agree, but what difference does it make? The DNC tipped the scales in favor of HRC (Brazile slipping her debate questions ahead of time), the media always included the superdelegates in counts, making her seem like she was way ahead and that Bernie had no chance to catch up to her, and the Dem establishment was behind her. They wanted her, we got her, and now we got Trump. There isn’t a doubt in my mind the outcome would have been different if the candidate were different. We do know that she didn’t beat Trump. Labor endorsed her early, Planned Parenthood endorsed her early, and the Human Rights Campaign endorsed her early. Guess which groups now have targets on their backs for the next four (eight?) years.
You said it, Liz. I agree with you completely. And yet, I hear no one in the democratic party owning up to rigging the primary (nice promotion there, DWS) and handing us a candidate that many did not trust. Had she released the Wall St. transcripts, maybe I’d feel differently, but I don’t know one single person that was on the fence and then didn’t vote for her b/c of Comey. People just didn’t like her early on (where I live, which is not CA). The dems need to own up to the rigged primary and their consistent screwing over of the working class and public education (Arne Duncan, John King).
“There isn’t a doubt in my mind the outcome would have been different if the candidate were different.”
Respectfully disagree. Bernie was not a safe choice for the Dems to back because he was viewed by the right as an extreme “socialist.” Remember, those in the Republican Party deemed Obama to be too far to the left. (!)
No matter who the DNC’s candidate would have been, the Republicans would have done what they do best–run a hateful campaign attacking and degrading the integrity of the opponent based on rhetoric and deception and flooding their media outlets with vitriol and lies.
The party notoriously plays dirty. The Dems fall into their game out of necessity, but still are a cut above because they don’t work it to the extreme that the Republicans do. (Does “Lock her up” ring a bell?)
In fact, when Obama took office, the Republicans vowed to fight him even when it contradicted their policy platform (remember Romney-care?) Yet, our outgoing Democrat-in-chief has urged fellow Democrats to work with Trump. Therein lies the difference between the two parties on this topic.
Hillary was doomed because the Republicans have been trying to cut her down for three decades. And yet, she still won the popular vote among those who actually cared enough TO vote. The people of this country need to wake up, and like Bernie, understand that effective and positive change takes time. Working within the system to change it is far preferable to creating the casualties of revolution. It’s time that the voters wake up to this reality instead of choosing to either be sheep or singular-thinkers. The lack of understanding regarding government relations among the people is the real enemy. We allowed this to happen, and we need to take responsibility to improve the system.
While it takes time for positive change to occur, unfortunately destructive change is pretty immediate. Brace yourselves for some terrible changes in this country’s immediate future. I hope you’re willing to fight these changes and organize others to join you.
LG, I’m just not sure how much fight I have left in me. I fight, I lose, I fight, I lose. The groups that are supposed to have leadership that fights for people like me have consistently let me down. Democrats led by the DNC can’t win, union leadership gets rich while membership gets screwed. Teachers in my public school voted for Trump. At what point do I say, “reap what you sow, folks?” I haven’t given up yet, but maybe it needs to get so bad that people are ready to come to their senses and join the fight.
I hear you, Liz. I’m disgusted by the lack of organization among members. I don’t find my state union leaders to be getting rich off of their positions, however I cannot speak for other unions. The problem is that people have so many sources for information and so little personal time to get involved that they simply don’t make informed choices. When they are subjected to bad laws that impede their ability to work well, they complain, but how many actually move on Take Action requests when asked? I am tired of the apathy-blame cycle that my fellow members continue to live by. I am an association rep, my local legislative action committee chair and a former county rep for government relations for my union (had to quit because there was no pay, required too much time and I had a baby). I have seen the apathy first-hand, and I have seen the state level member committees (volunteers) and departments at work trying to make sense of the legislation affecting us. I believe in what we are doing. I just don’t believe that enough of our members care to get involved, to organize or even to simply learn what’s going on. It’s despicable.
LIZ
“Teachers in my public school voted for Trump.”
There were always a few . Do you think the assault on Americas teachers has just a little to do with this. Hard to convince workers that a politician has their back when the empirical evidence points elsewhere. Where was a time when labor leaders could turn out vast numbers in support of a candidate. But then that was a time that those politicians delivered to those workers.
Rest assured that it will never get bad enough to bring people to their senses . It would seem the worse it gets the more irrational the choice. The great change we experience in the 1930’s was due to an external threat.
Teachers in my school voted for him too. I find that anyone in education who did, voted on one issue alone, and it was not education.
Long article today in the LA Times about how Boko Haram warriors are murdering all the teachers in Nigeria. Particularly women teachers.
Some here, with their repeated barbs at Bernie voters, might volunteer to be tRump’s own Boko Haram. Yay…get out there and kill the teachers, and students, and all who supported Bernie!!!
These constant redundant hate filled diatribes only alienate many who have fought the good fight and are suffering not from being cowards who hid behind computers, anonymously, at home writing nasty name calling crap, but for being activists who registered voters, served at polling places, and were/are out among ’em.
I wish this looking back and harping with nothing new to say, would stop. I wish some sort of forward thinking could take hold…and view how to fight tRump now and forever.
“Yay…get out there and kill the teachers, and students, and all who supported Bernie!!!”
Say what??
I haven’t seen anyone bashing myself or the many other teachers and students who supported Bernie.
The only criticism I have is for the people who did NOT support Bernie when he told them that Hillary was not corrupt, not a criminal, not a sell-out to corporate interests and therefore they should stop acting like she is and vote for her.
Then why don’t you stop all this redundant and hateful commentary when almost every educator I know followed Bernie’s lead and voted for Hillary, as did I?
Well said.
My mind still boggles at the requirement of President Candidate regarding his tax return, his foundation’s audit report. and his experience in governmental works.
I do not see how Trump qualifies to be a Presidential Nominee to begin with due to the nature of his international business.
I hope that some decent law makers can prevent all unqualified people to run for Public offices through certain rules and regulations.
According to Steve Jobs, leadership will choose his/her cabinet which represents and resembles to the leader.
Therefore, people at all levels in white and blue collars can defy and reject the government who did not represent them, except that dictatorship will suppress people through force. Back2basic.
Besides qualification in education and working experiences, people need to have decency in order to run for public services. Back2basic
Here is the definition for decency.
De·cen·cy (noun)
[dēsənsē]
Behavior that conforms to accepted standards of morality or respectability.
There is a lack of decency in Trump’s cabinet choices. They all seem to be opportunists that will fleece our country with the potential to deny people their rights. Once they get two ultra right wing justices in the Supreme Court, we will go backwards a decade or more.
A decade , now I feel better. I was thinking more a century.
Actually, new younger SCOTUS members could influence the outcomes of the Court for about 40 years…what a horrible legacy to our grandchildren.
Consequences for Comey?
I assume I am not the only one who feels threatened by a military establishment that is decidedly one party and is now joined by an FBI that feels comfortable with a man who belittles people who do not look like him. How can this do anything but threaten our freedoms.
This fear comes from a real middle of the road kind of guy, who would never stand up in a crowed theater and shout “Turmp”. Comey’s actions may not have been illegal, but they should be. No one in a local police department should have the right to announce an investigation of a person running for mayor or the school board. Remember, these are positions school reformers are going after. What if this becomes commonplace all over e country?
I wanted to bring back the draft . I felt threatened by our all volunteer army long before Trump . It is a recipe for becoming a banana Republic.
Joel…we should all look askance at our military since the Military Commissions Act allows the Prez to put military on the streets of our cities to police them, and on an Executive Order. Bush updated this, and Obama made it even more rigid. Can you imagine Trump using the military to put down Standing Rock? I can.
Excellent point Roy…who (what liberal) would ever run for office if their campaign could be overtaken at the end by a fascistic FBI agent digging up dirt on them? With Blackwater, the FBI, the CIA, and Generals in charge of the Trump Cabinet….we are now in the midst of a Fascist government. The marriage of Government and Corporations = Classic Fascism.
Thank you for that message! Plus a big dose of cultural, historical, and institutional sexism imperceptible to many because so ingrained kept the anti-Hillary Clinton message burning.
Thank you, Diane. It’s called Hillary Hatred Derangement syndrome. I’m tired of it, too. We need to come together to save public education at the local and state level, and all the other values we hold dearly. This is a time to be united against Trump and all he stands for.
YES!!!
If you still don’t understand why people dislike Hillary that is evidence of your inability to listen. I (and others) have posted dozens of reasons not to like Hillary, none of which have anything to do with right-wing conspiracies (in fact, they’re things the right-wing very much approves of). Her ties to the oil/fracking industries, her ties to private prisons, Monsanto, Walmart, Eli Broad, John Podesta (and the education privatization movement in general), Wall Street, her speeches, her support for right-wing policies like NAFTA, TPP, welfare “reform”, “three strikes” (and calling black kids “superpredators”), and the repeal of Glass-Steagall, her vote for the Iraq war (which she claimed was a “mistake”, but then went on to push for turning Libya into a failed state too), her support of the right-wing coup in Honduras, her role in suppressing the minimum wage in Haiti, her saber-rattling against Russia and Iran, her support of a no-fly zone in Syria, even her inexplicable need to lie about being under sniper fire with Chelsea in Bosnia. The list goes on and on and on and on, all of which is documented. If you and other Hillary supporters refuse to hear what you’re being told and respond accordingly, you can plan on having Trump for eight years. But if you can understand what the Bernie movement has been (and still is) trying say, maybe there’s hope in 2020. Another Hillary-type candidate cannot win in 2020. A Bernie-type candidate can (and could have this year, which is yet another reason to dislike Hillary and the fact that she was unfairly foisted on us).
Incidentally, none of this is “hate”. I’ve never met Hillary in person. I’m sure she’s warm and charming (as is, incidentally, GWB, from what I understand although I’ve never met him either). It’s about policy, not personality.
agreed and i just posted,a similar post. could have saved some effort
Everything Dienne said above is true. Hillary was a highly flawed and weak candidate, over and above the misogyny that is unquestioningly part of the opposition to her.
However, one thing that people are also understating or ignoring is the catastrophic foolishness of putting forth a candidate who was the focus of a criminal (justified or not) investigation. Whatever Hillary’s merits or lack thereof, doing so was pure strategic insanity.
Regarding Hillary’s private email servers, readers of this blog should have been disturbed by it for the very same reason they are disturbed by charters and vouchers: even if every other nefarious activity imputed to her doing so was non-existent, it represented the privatization of an important public office.
All that said, Hillary is now old news, her and Bill’s political careers over. It’s pointless and cruel to kick her while she’s down; what matters is to learn from the almost unfathomable cascade of errors, willful blindness, arrogance and complacency that have brought us to this point, so that we can blunt the worst of what’s heading our way.
You’re dead-on here. I think that Hillary Clinton is extremely smart and eminently capable, and that she suffers from no disqualifying character defect. I voted for her without hesitation and would do it again. But she was a highly flawed candidate from the beginning. But a lot of Democrats just could not or would not see that, perhaps due to the fog of the”Clinton derangement syndrome” war.
The sad thing is that the REASON that Republicans have worked so hard on “Hillary derangement syndrome” is because she was far more dangerous to their plans than any Democrat candidate. She is smart. She knows how to get things done. Why do you think they started attacking her 6 years before the election, with all the “Benghazi” attacks? And look at how the people post the list ONLY of all the bad things she did and none of the good. I guess there are none. She is 100% evil.
We saw what a weak Democrat like Obama does. Hillary has never been weak. And the fact that people still act as if sitting on a Walmart board 30 years ago and trying to do some good is the same as enacting policies to destroy the American poor is exactly why the Republicans will keep on winning and winning.
I wonder if you Hillary-haters will be posting the same thing about Elizabeth Warren when we all explain that she was a “flawed” candidate because we have bought every single negative that was said about her and IGNORED every bit of good she did during her 40 years helping the non-powerful? When she loses thanks to us repeating how corrupt she is, we will happily tell you that it is all your fault for having such a corrupt Sen. Warren as a candidate.
No doubt if Dems win again they will get another weak candidate who meets with the approval of the “we only take perfection” crowd who ONLY see the worst flaws in their candidate and ignore every single good thing they have ever done.
The notion that Jill Stein would do more good than Hillary?
That’s like believing that Jimmy Carter was a BETTER President for the poor and middle class than Lyndon B. Johnson. Odd that the “flaws” of LBJ — far worse than anything Hillary did — led to some of the best outcomes domestically. But hey, let’s have our next Carter or Jill Stein who will bring us all the utopia that Hillary Clinton would have destroyed and destroyed so terrible that we should all celebrate that she isn’t in power and Trump is.
By the way, Hillary’s “ties” to Eli Broad are no different than her “ties” to Randi Weingarten. But I’m not a union teacher and no doubt you are all glad that we didn’t have any of that nasty Hillary fighting for public schools because you are just 100% certain she despised them and would have sold them out. You got trumped! And frankly, if you are a union teacher and you kept repeating the nasty Hillary is corrupt memes that convinced other Americans that Trump was no worse than she is, then you got exactly what you deserve. The kids will suffer needlessly, but not the teachers who smugly attacked Hillary as corrupt and evil in a way that never did to Obama – who was as bad or worse but somehow there is not Obama derangement syndrome to attack the fact that the policies they so despise were ultimately HIS!
It is not a matter of not understanding; it is a matter of not agreeing with your assessment or your response to to that assessment. You want nothing less than total agreement. She was not my chosen candidate either, but when Bernie supported her then I was willing to do so as well. At this point continued vilification of Hillary is counterproductive. If you want Trump for eight years, keep harping on Hillary. We need to find the common ground that is there and COMPROMISE and COLLABORATE. Stop seeking vindication; who was right or wrong in the choices they made doesn’t matter anymore. Bernie isn’t sitting around rehashing old war wounds. Neither should we, no matter where we stood.
Well-said. It’s not that Hillary didn’t have flaws, just like Bernie had flaws and Obama has flaws.
It’s because that Hillary-haters ONLY saw her flaws. It’s as if she did nothing but terrible things for 40 years! Not one good thing ever — just that long list of actions that was posted here to explain why people despise her in a way that they don’t despise Obama or any of a myriad of other Democrats who have actually done far worse than that laundry list of negatives that the haters can only see.
Nothing good at all. Just like LBJ. If only we had elected Nixon earlier we would never have had that nasty LBJ and medicare and all would be well.
So, Joel and Dienne, how can the voting public keep this dynamic from happening again?
Can we start by demanding a voice in choosing who runs the DNC? Who will listen to us?
+100
Respectfully, blaming Comey is denial, that suggests no call to action, for citizens. Hillary’s candidacy was yesterday. She was disliked for reasons she didn’t deserve. The fact that there is no agreement about which Democrat could have beat, a greatly disliked Republican, with substantial negative baggage, reflects a huge problem.
Aren’t the questions for the future, whether the oligarchy of the richest 400 families can be stopped? Who has the best chance to return America to democracy? What resources are necessary to thwart plutocrats? How will the resources be marshaled for the selected person/organization? What strategies and tactics will be needed?
When we feel defeated about the prospects for change in the Democratic Party, we can look to Trump’s candidacy, with little support from his Party, less money than his opposition, after a bruising primary, he won. The fact that Hillary won the popular vote, tells us that America’s number of voters who are good people, out number those who are drawn to messages of hate.
Well said
Linda, we are not disagreeing. Instead of squabbling over the past, we should unite around the issues of the day: the power of the 1%, the necessity of campaign finance reform (which won’t happen as long as Trump is in charge), the growing income inequality and wealth inequality that is hollowing out the middle class. Trump’s Election defers consideration of any of these issues that threaten our society and our democracy.
You’re right and it’s why there is profound despair.
Blaming Comey is important.
If you don’t think the use of the FBI to cast doubt on political enemies is unimportant than it just allows them to do it over and over again. Will it be okay to blame the FBI when they start investigating Bernie? Jill Stein? Elizabeth Warren? Justice Ginsburg?
We have an FBI that ignores real corruption by Republicans and pretends that non-criminal actions that aren’t designed to enrich themselves and their cronies are terrible crimes. Do you know what that does?
It NORMALIZES all the corruption that we are going to see in the next administration. It’s all just business as usual because the Hillary haters could not see the difference between trumped up political charges of corruption (she gave speeches for money! how dare she even though not one single policy was changed) versus what we are about to witness where deals to promote private businesses are the order of the day and who cares about policy.
Trump will be as corrupt as he wants and the American people won’t say a word because they already know that the Clintons governed corruptly and it didn’t really hurt our country. So why not let Trump do whatever he wants.
I would agree, NYC, if Comey’s scapegoating was in the context of altering FBI influence for the future. But, the focus stops at Comey, as though he went rogue, was torn between competing factions, etc.
To what, other than Comey, does Hillary attribute her loss?
“Could have, should have, would have…..?”
Linda,
Hillary Clinton ran on the most progressive platform a Democrat had offered. She ran on Bernie’s platform.
The voters didn’t trust her. Why? She certain had a history of fighting for progressive causes! She certainly had a history of understanding working Americans. If you actually read her “deplorables” speech instead of the cherry-picked line that the right wing got everyone to believe, she was talking about exactly those working class voters that had been left behind. But it all didn’t matter because she was corrupt. The FBI kept investigating her and smearing her and it was only as a favor to Obama that they didn’t indict “Crooked Hillary”.
I don’t think Comey went rogue. That is the problem! That we are ignoring a huge issue that is very dangerous to democracy. That the powers of investigation in both the FBI and Congress were used to smear a very good person. That is the reason Hillary lost. It wasn’t her speeches and the use of a private server. No one cared when Powell and the Republicans used a private server. And a proper FBI investigation would have cleared her. Powell told her that keeping her e-mail off the state dept. server was a good idea and his own practice. No one ever questioned Powell and neither did Clinton. If Clinton had used AOL, she’d be bashed the same way AND be called a complete idiot for making state secrets available on AOL to any employee!
I don’t want to re-hash this. But it is very dangerous to think that Warren or Bernie cannot be smeared. If you investigate anyone, you can smear them with something eventually. Bernie’s wife sweetheart deal that bankrupted a college would have been investigated by the FBI to smear him. How did Bernie’s wife get those loans when she LIED outright on the documents and claimed she had other funds? What favors were done? Warren’s plagiarism, academic misconduct, lying about her native american heritage to get jobs, etc. would have been investigated ad nauseam. And once it started, there would have been more “scandals”.
The Republicans investigated Whitewater for years and found nothing but it allowed them to turn oral sex in the white house into a “crime” that led to impeachment. The Republicans investigated Benghazi for years and found nothing, but it allowed them to turn a legal server which had fewer confidential documents on it than nearly any other politician into “carelessness’ and a crime that meant she should be locked up.
Sure Obama didn’t have that issue, but that’s because the house didn’t investigate his ties to Tony Rezko. I’m surprised they didn’t — maybe because they already knew he planned to govern like a Republican and allow the rich free reign. But no doubt had he tried to do something more progressive, we would have another impeachment when they saw that the same guy who donated hundreds of thousands to his campaign also bought land for him and sold it to him for a sweetheart price. Not good.
Everyone’s life can be gone through with a fine tooth comb and nasty things that make you look corrupt can be found. The question is whether those findings are put in context, or used to make you look like a completely corrupt and lying sell-out to foreign governments and Goldman Sachs, as Hillary was, or just part of a larger and more fair portrait of you, as was the case with Obama, Bernie, Warren, and every other politician ever.
Just read Christopher Hitchens book on Mother Teresa to see that no one is perfect.
The FBI is being used to turn any progressive politician into a criminal. Ask yourself WHY the Republicans hated Hillary Clinton so much if she was simply another sell-out to their interests.
It is because she was progressive and the irony is that the Republicans and FBI understood that far more than some of the Democrats! She was incredibly dangerous to them in a way that Obama wasn’t. Comey was willing to violate the Hatch Act to “get” Hillary.
If we say that the FBI is irrelevant and let that violation go unmentioned, then when it happens again and it is Bernie or Warren or some other progressive politician who bites the dust so that a right wing politician wins, it will be our fault for saying that the FBI doesn’t matter. I don’t want to wait until it happens again. And it will. I thought the Whitewater investigation showed Americans what was wrong, but Republicans showed me that all you need is the FBI in your pocket, and an endless Congressional investigation and you can paint any democrat as corrupt.
Praise be to Oden, Linda, for your voice of reason.
Incidentally, calling for unity and moving forward and putting the past behind us while still insisting on your own position is called gaslighting. “Why, sweetie, I just don’t understand what the problem is. We’d get along so well if you could just admit I’m right and you’re wrong. Why are you disrupting what could be such a good thing?”
Over the top.
As far as I know, the election is over. We are facing the most reactionary administration in our history. Is Hillary still THE problem?
I’m glad for Hillary. Congrats to her on Election 2016 because now, for the first time in 20 or 30 years, she can finally stop running for President. Hooray for her! It’s the dawn of a new day. She can finally, well, probably get on with her life. And so can the rest of us. Well, some of us. We can put, not just the Clinton dynasty, but all technocratic neoliberalism in the attic, and be liberals and conservatives again. That’s the bright side. Hooray for it. Time to move on. Trump too shall pass.
LeftCoastTeacher
He shall pass .But how much damage will be done.
Joel,
Too much damage will be done. Neocons and neolibs made our bed and now we get to lie in it. Ain’t life grand. Stay on the Left side of the bed.
According the Jeff Greenfeld on CNN just now, the Trump appointments to SCOTUS will be the worst thing that will happen. All he has suggested are activist judges and they will render activist, not absolutist, decisions like Citizens United. Also with both Houses of Congress now Repub, Trump will change this nation for many decades to come, and will set back all liberal legislation. If there was any Dem push back, it is lost to us now.
Ellen,
Agreed. Ain’t life grand. He’s going to appoint justices and judges who will violently grab liberalism “by the p__sy.” He can get away with it because he’s rich, ya know.
That’s not locker room talk. That’s the way it is. Let’s just not forget how we got here, so we don’t repeat our errors of bipartisanship. In the meantime, sit back and watch Wall Street, Big Oil, Big Charter, and the rest of the billionaire class become even more powerful and more despised than before. The bright side to keep us going, Ellen, my good friend and supporter.
Unity doesn’t always mean cowtowing or compromising principles. Unity means getting together for a common cause. Putting differences aside for a common cause doesn’t mean we have to throw our values in the trash. We figure out a way to work together. Democrats are far better allies when you compare the privatization and unequal rights agenda of the Republicans. The corporate ties of some powerful Democrats need to be cut, but the human rights platform is undeniable and deserves our support.
I agree with you, LG, but this election also demonstrates that a human rights platform, absent real efforts toward broad-based economic justice (something Hillary could never be a credible representative of), is a house built on sand.
Would Trump’s haranguing about “political correctness” have had the same resonance for those working class voters in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin if they still had any chance at all of getting a unionized, living wage job with benefits, and didn’t live in fear of declining living standards for themselves and their families? I’m convinced not.
Now it goes without saying, or should, that Trump is con man who will screw those working class voters who put him over the top in the electoral college, but the fact remains that he was able to skillfully put himself into the void created by the Democratic Party’s willful decision to bet its future on a coalition limited to affluent, urban, credentialed professionals and the Black and Latino working class (who in fact have themselves been economically screwed by the Democrats, but had other valid reasons for remaining part of the coalition).
Finally, I’d like to remind readers that the theme of the 1963 march on Washington in which Martin Luther King, Jr. made his famous speech was “A March for Jobs and Justice.” King and other Black leaders of the time such as A. Phillip Randolph and Bayard Rustin were social democrats who understood the necessity of broad, class-based appeals as the underpinning for social justice. That awareness has not just been lost, but stifled by the Democratic Party of the past thirty years.
Michael Fiorillo
Spot on .
That lunch counter is getting smaller and we are all fighting for the seats. As all are losing the ability to pay for the sandwich .
Exactly.
This comment thread would be a very good omen, IF it was coming from those who speak for and raise money for the Democratic Party.
In the presidential campaign of 2012, the rich gave Obama 4 times the amount that the worker collectives gave him.
Is a titular, Democratic Party, essential in convincing the public that the U.S. is a two-party democracy, when it isn’t?
“…absent real efforts toward broad-based economic justice (something Hillary could never be a credible representative of)…”
wow, just wow. This is the same Hillary who got painted as a socialist left winger as first lady when she tried to get a universal health care plan in place. No one was talking about her ties to wal mart then! Despite them being just a few years in the past. And how DARE she enact CHiP – children’s health insurance at low cost – which has insured many of my friends’ children when they are unemployed! Hillary is a loser and could NEVER be “credible” for economic justice. That is EXACTLY what voters heard from the people who despised her and repeated this kind of nonsense over and over again.
But as the political winds turned, the alt right realized that the best way to destroy Hillary was to make her into one of the pro-business establishment in it for the money politicians! And look how many otherwise intelligent people bought it hook, line and sinker.
She was never either of those characterizations. She did LESS than what other politicians did — including Bernie, by the way — but that somehow became huge scandals because of the non-stop faux “investigations”. (Remember Bernie’s wife enriching herself and ruining a college thanks to Bernie’s political ties? Remember when Bernie fought gun control?) If it wasn’t Benghazi, they had to find something else and apparently NOT using AOL for her e-mails as Powell did and using a secure server had to be corrupt. If a man not subject to Hillary-derangement syndrome and the alt-right’s memes had done that, they would have been respected for understanding that the private server was more secure than AOL, not acting as if he wanted to hide MORE than Colin Powell wanted to hide. After all, we don’t hear “corrupt Colin Powell” every time his name is mentioned.
If Bernie derangement syndrome takes hold, we will have people posting about how he opposed getting assault weapons off the streets. Does it matter than it happened decades ago? Of course not! Just like Hillary’s Wal Mart ties happened decades ago. All that matters is that we know that Bernie will sell us out because the alt-right keeps saying that and we are so angry our candidate didn’t win that we are going to repeat it over and over again so that all the American public understands what a sell-out Bernie is. He loves the NRA just like Hillary loves Wal Mart. I know because the Hillary haters have told me that this is the way to characterize any candidate.
And when the FBI and House committees start their non-stop investigations where they subpoena every bit of evidence to make Bernie and Elizabeth and any other disliked candidate look bad, we will all say “we told you so”. But don’t worry, maybe if Trump destroys democracy before then you will stay smug knowing how much that “nasty woman” you hated would have sold us out with her corrupt policies. After all, she has done NOTHING for anyone but herself for 40 years so she isn’t “credible” at all and would have obviously done everything she could to make children suffer even more. “broad based economic justice”?? You know Hillary just HATES that if it interferes with her desire to get more millions in her pocket.
Thank you for expressing so well exactly why she lost. You are so certain of how terrible she is and that certainty was based in nothing but your own hatred for her. People like you should be delighted that so many Americans picked up on your certainty and she lost. Interviews showed how many voters knew she was corrupt, just like you are certain is absolutely true. Trump says “thank you!”
Michael…thanks for the history lesson…right on.
Yes it is. Concise messages work better than long detailed ones. People have short attention spans. Pity.
Jerry T. Jordan President, Philadelphia Federation of Teachers 1816 Chestnut St. Philadelphia, PA 19103 215-587-6738
>
Comey certainly hurt her chances but she was never going to win this election and to put the blame anywhere other than the Democratic party for nominating her in the first place and the people who voted for Trump is just making excuses for having your head in the sand.
She may be a lovely person. She certainly has more experience and political savvy than any of the other candidates. But at the same time, she was a highly divisive figure from the start. People hate her. Irrationally yes, but they still hate her nonetheless. To think that she’d be able to win over all those voters who have been complaining about her for 30 years was ridiculous. It’s a shame that she never really had a fair shot at this and it’s exposed how much of our nation still views women but she was a bad choice in an election that mattered more than any other in my lifetime.
While people could certainly be more polite in how they write and talk about her post-election, I think it’s important that she remains a topic of discussion. Her candidacy was a huge strategic error that we need to learn from.
Her candidacy or, her campaign strategy, or both?
“she was never going to win this election…”??
How can we take anything after that seriously when you start your post something like that?
She WON the popular vote. Moreover, she very well might have won the electoral vote if the FBI director had not made the unprecedented step of releasing a statement claiming there was even more evidence of her corruption to investigate.
I recall seeing an article where there was a huge difference between the votes made earlier before Comey’s announcement and the ones on election day.
Maybe if it had been a true Trump landslide, instead of the fake one the press is pretending happened, you could have written that sentence.
Hillary Clinton has always become popular as soon as elections are over and people see her instead of being inundated by the alt right and Hillary haters on the left portrayal of her.
What a shame she didn’t have the chance to do some good in the way that LBJ did. I am certain that she would have had far more success than Obama did in turning out country left again. And she would have regained the popularity she had as Senator and Secy of State.
The only lesson that should be learned is that if your primary candidate loses and you demonize the winner and help the alt right do their job, you will get the right wing Republican you deserve. Instead of a winning candidate who will do much good and would have been one of the most progressive Presidents since LBJ.
I felt that Hillary was a bad choice long before the primaries were over. This isn’t the case of sour grapes from a Bernie supporter. The party let us down. While the primaries weren’t rigged, the party certainly worked against Sanders to help Clinton win the nomination.
You think she would have been more successful than Obama? Were you not paying attention for the last 8 years? If our own government wouldn’t work with Obama, what makes you think they’d be any easier on Clinton who they’ve been actively hating for decades?
Winning the popular vote means nothing except that there are a lot of unhappy people out there right now. They didn’t campaign on a popular vote election. They were campaigning knowing that they were trying to win electoral votes. If we had a different system, they would have campaigned differently and there’s no way to know that those extra 2 million votes would have gone her way.
It’s been painfully obvious that a presidential run was her endgame since the first Clinton left office. Every move she’s made has been about padding her resume for this moment. But if she truly cared about her country, she would have looked at the situation, realized that there was a large part of our population who just weren’t going to vote for her, and stepped aside to let someone with a better chance run against the fascists on the other side. She was a highly qualified candidate but she wasn’t the only one.
We keep talking about Hillary and how she was or wasn’t qualified, etc., etc. Time to look at the big picture. What tactics have been effective? Ineffective? What does the candidate that all those non voters would vote for look like. Knee jerk reaction is to choose a younger version of Bernie with a few tweaks. That is far too simplistic. We have to look at why voters did not all vote for Bernie. What combination of skills do we want in the next candidate? I really don’t think these are easy questions. Beyond identifying a presidential candidate, we definitely need to be much more active on the state and local level. The Republicans have extended their power far beyond their actual numbers by focusing on those “(way)down ticket” races. It has been a long time since the Democratic leadership has actually understood what grassroots participation/support is and why it is important.
Court says:
“It’s been painfully obvious that a presidential run was her endgame since the first Clinton left office. Every move she’s made has been about padding her resume for this moment.”
I’m glad you are all-knowing — and express exactly why Dems will keep losing and losing when so-called Democrats buy into every candidate-hating meme they are told to believe.
She is 68 years old. I certainly never thought still had a chance to be President once she lost to Obama. I think it is very odd that you did but your certainty got Trump elected because it was the meme oft repeated by Democrats and convinced so many blue collar Dems that her entire life was about power. I can’t to see what happens when Bernie or Liz Warren get the same treatment and their entire lives consists of ‘they want power and are money-grubbing’. Because the only things we will talk about are the nasty things about Bernie and Liz and we will ignore 40 years of the rest.
There was plenty of opportunity for other candidates to step forward and none did until Bernie (and the guy no one actually noticed who was more conservative than Hillary when it comes down to it).
You can smear Hillary all you like because while you don’t think you are being nasty and voted for her, you don’t even realize how damaging those statements by Democrats were. The media agreed with everything you said about how she spent her life padding her resume for this moment knowing that age 68 she would get what she had earned by selling out the little guys to anyone who would help.
It’s ironic because THAT is the description of Donald Trump. And his handlers used the Karl Rove method of tarring your opponent with your own flaws. And the foolish Democrats bought it hook line and sinker. Even if they voted for her they made sure that the public knew that it was Hillary who only cared about power and promoting herself, not Trump. And the alt right and Karl Rove copiers could not have done it without lots of people saying exactly what you did: “every move she made was about padding her resume”.
No wonder no one TRUSTED Hillary. Gosh it’s amazing that Bannon got the Dems to do his dirty work and Rove was laughing it up and breaking out the champagne.
We have Trump and the GOP to deal with now. It just boggles my mind that incredibly intelligent and well read people, scholars even, think that HRC is somehow just as bad as or even worse than Trump. Once we arrived at the choice of DT v. HRC, I felt that the only sensible thing to do was vote for the less horrible person. Trump is actually beyond horrible. Noam Chomsky agreed with my assessment. Not to mention Bernie, Robert Reich (he supported Bernie first) and Mike Moore. Jill Stein is getting blowback from some Greens who feel that she should not be cavorting with the HRC team in any way. Talk about the circular firing squad.
I’m not the only one saying it: http://www.salon.com/2016/12/03/identity-politics-vs-populist-economics-its-a-false-choice-liberals-need-to-look-in-the-mirror/
Good article Dienne!
Yes I do blame Hillary /Obama for electing Trump . The election was not rigged nobody changed votes coming out of polling machines. My own daughter who changed from Independent to Democrat 3 months before the Primary in NY was unable to vote . But those rules were made long before this century,no less this election.
It was the process that was rigged like in the old days of Tammany Hall. Hillary was anointed before any candidate had entered the race including herself. She entered the race as the incumbent even though she wasn’t . If anybody could not see the collusion between the “Liberal Media ” and the Clinton campaign I would offer to sneak you in on my prescription lens coverage. As I have stated before Juan Cole who was a long time staff writer for the Daily News detailed the collusion between the editorial board and the Clinton campaign in what became a devastating editorial and a flash point between the candidates .
We had the congressional Black caucus come out uniformly for Hillary . There was even delusional moments with respected civil rights leader, Rep .John Lewis making a statement that he never saw Bernie at the 63 march on Washington but he saw Hillary . He is to be forgiven it must have been a senior moment we all have them.
But that brings us to a larger issue which brings parallels to the Trump Campaign on several levels . The obvious is, as the electoral college does not represent the majority of Americans . The Southern states do not represent the States democrats need to win or more properly can win in order to take the Presidency.
But there is another dynamic nobody wants to mention . We all see the Trump campaign as appealing to white nationalism and racism and there is no doubt that he has attracted their support . His campaign denies those allegations strongly . They are right in what they claim ,when they say because they support him is no proof that Trump is a racist and supports them. What they leave out is a huge portion of his supporters although not being blatant racists voted for Trump due to tremendous racial anxiety and animus. Including all of those that I know . No they are not hanging Blacks and Hispanics from trees, but they don’t want the others in their schools and neighborhoods either. Even though the occasional minority that enters their comfort zone may be accepted . They have fears that their white privilege is being encroached on not only by Blacks but by Brown peoples many of whom have come here undocumented. This extends to their economic insecurity as well. They are not necessarily wrong in the observation that illegal immigration is used as a wage wedge . But their anger is directed against the immigrant looking for a better life rather than the employers like Trump who hire them, fueling the flow of undocumented immigration.
The great American tradition of hiring the immigrant while bashing them for being here. The descriptions of Irish, Italians,Jews and Greeks being no different over a century ago.
But the thing that has been ignored was that a similar dynamic played out in the Democratic Primaries, Hillary Clinton regardless of a leaked campaign emails or an occasional precinct captain in Nevada , did not play to antisemitism . But there is no doubt that when 90% of Demographic groups vote for a candidate something out of the ordinary is going on . She wasn’t running against George Wallace . So her Southern firewall was built on a similar dynamic to Trumps overwhelming suburban and rural support. The sad part it delivered a candidate who was weak . One who could not only not, turn out the traditional democratic base in sufficient numbers . But one who could not motivate a tremendous pool of youth voters .
The failure was not of personality, It wasn’t one of character either. Look who she was running against , probably one of the most revolting figures in American history ,flawed in character ,actions , and in resume, magnitudes worse than her . The failure was one of long term policy that has turned away the base of the democratic party for decades, one group at a time. Yes many of those Blue Collar workers left the party decades ago. Many due to the same factors that Trump appeals to. But there is no group that has been more loyal to the Democratic party than Teachers the betrayal of this group is monumental in scope . It points to the cancer at the heart of the party that has left the election map looking like a sea of red in State after State . If you think you are going to be the party of your rich donors . You better find a way to clone them because Bill and Malinda are only two votes.
Notice I haven’t bashed Hillary it is the policy that NDC democrats have pursued that has to be addressed. The party has become the party of Wall Street and Welfare . Its policy prescriptions on Trade on Immigration even on regulation appease Wall Street but as the share price of Goldman Sachs reveals the democrats will never win the hearts and minds of the new Robber Barron’s. Like Charlie the Tuna they are not the real thing. They are being played to pass policy that would never pass under a Republican . No Republican could have taken down Glass-Steagall, nor a host of other policies. You needed a Democrat to do that . You needed a Democrat to pass NAFTA .
A Republican would have met a firewall of Democrats from the Mid West and Northeast that killed the bill. The Mid West is now gone. I wonder why .
The party of welfare:
After devastating poor women and poor communities with welfare reform that created more child poverty . After passing a Crime Bill that has put more people in prison than Communist China, both policies that have devastated poor communities and communities of color. After not even taking the one bill (EFCA) out of committee when they had total control of all three branches of government, that would have given organized labor a fighting chance . They become the party to fight against cuts in food stamps and even the $15 minimum wage. Both fights are laudable I have marched in support of the fight for $15 . But is that what the American people are crying for . They don’t want food stamps, they don’t want $15 , they don’t want Obamacare. They want decent jobs that pay a wage that enables a comfortable life style. They want healthcare that is affordable be it provided by their employers or a National healthcare plan,medicare for all. Obamacare was not a viable healthcare plan it was an extension of medicaid to the working poor , with giveaways to big Pharma and Insurance. . It hammered those who were just above subsidy levels. It hammered small employers.
So lets not bash Hillary lets go forward as the party that takes the Democratic message back from Trump You can be the Party of Wall Street or you can be the party of the Working Class, you can’t be both. Trump is about to learn that as well, as his bullshit runs into his Republican anti worker policy.
Trump is likely to be the single most significant part of Obama’s legacy.
The electoral college does not represent the views of the majority of Americans? More like Americans in three or so major cities do not represent the views of an entire Country. Here is a quote from someone that sums up why we have the electoral college.There are 3,141 counties in the United States. Trump won 3,084 of them. Clinton won 57. There are 62 counties in New York State. Trump won 46 of them. Clinton won 16. Clinton won the popular vote by approx. 2 million plus votes. In the 5 counties that encompass NYC, (Bronx, Brooklyn, Manhattan, Richmond & Queens) Clinton received well over 2 million more votes than Trump. (Clinton only won 4 of these counties; Trump won Richmond) Therefore these 5 counties alone, more than accounted for Clinton winning the popular vote of the entire country. These 5 counties comprise 319 square miles. The United States is comprised of 3, 797,000 square miles. When you have a country that encompasses almost 4 million square miles of territory, it would be ludicrous to even suggest that the vote of those who inhabit a mere 319 square miles should dictate the outcome of a national election. Large, densely populated Democrat cities (NYC, Chicago, LA, etc) don’t and shouldn’t speak for the rest of our country.
The Real One,
Democracy means “one man-one vote.” Nothing more, nothing less. A person who lives in a city is not less worthy than a person who lives on a farm. Their votes should be of equal value: 1.
We are called the United States of America. How is it a federation of states if three or four large urban areas can choose the leader of all the states? Is it less democratic to have each of those states choose a winner and then weight that vote the same way we do legislators? I rather think that the difference was in the way voting was controlled through registration and voting requirements rather than through any great flaw in the Electoral College. I’m not saying that the Electoral College is the best way to capture the wide diversity of opinion in this country, but I am questioning whether a few large urban areas should be allowed to decide for the rest of the country. I don’t know; maybe it is enough to have a bicameral Congress. The fact that we do, though, does point to concern for minority opinion that we should not ignore.
A couple of decades ago, Trump was interviewed. Paraphrasing, he said, if he could be born a Black man, he would, because there were so many opportunities. He was referring to ways to make money. I thought at the time, it was something a bigot would say.
2old2teach you are absolutely correct. Three major urban areas should not be allowed to determine the results of entire Country. However, Mrs. Ravitch seems to think it is OK when in fact it is a seriously flawed argument. 319 square miles should not determine the results of close to 4,000,0000 square miles point period blank. This is the United States of America not the United States of New York or California.
To The Real One:
Could you apply your SO CALLED LOGICAL thinking, like 400 rich families can decide the living wage for you and 250,000,000 working Americans? Back2basic
Great question, May.
Joel Herman,
Russ Feingold could NOT turn out typical Democratic voters.
He received FEWER votes than Hillary. Which means even all those people voting for Jill Stein and other 3rd party candidates did not want Russ Feingold anywhere near the Senate.
But maybe it’s just the kind of anti-Semitism which would have led to Bernie to have lost by a far greater vote.
Until you provide a rational reason by Feingold could not muster even the votes that Hillary did, your logic falls apart. He should have received more, given that all those Stein voters should have also voted for him for Senate.
You can be the party of “I refuse to use logic and will demonize my opponents and shoot myself in the foot” or you can fight for democracy.
And fighting for democracy means recognizing that the alt right’s propaganda machine has convinced people of a democratic candidates corruption to the degree that the most corrupt Republican candidate is NORMALIZED. And right now Trump has the run of the government for 4 years because the people who insisted that Hillary’s corruption was the same as Trump’s have won! They convinced voters it was true!
Guess what? Voters weren’t that scared of Hillary’s corruption ruining the country. Obviously they know that nothing bad happened when she basically committed all those “crimes” and things were still pretty good. So you got them convinced that it will be fine for Trump to commit crimes, too! The Hillary haters normalized Trump. He is not more corrupt than Hillary and the Clintons and we all know how that was fine so why not Trump?
Great assessment, Joel, but the operant question here is how do we, who are educated and involved voters, get a foothold into the process represented by the FAILED DNC? How do we who seem to be a loose confederation of well meaning Dems, some leaning Left, others Right, make our voices heard?
Most of us have worked in campaigns for decades, have run for county central committee, have written letters, called our reps, marched, made as much noise as possible, yet still could not get our candidates elected. Clearly, the Dems did so much dirt to lib candidates like Alan Grayson of Florida who was flung under the bus by Chuck Schumer in favor of a pathetic jerk who not only lost for the Senate but helped to deconstruct Florida for Hillary. How do we stop this endemic disease of old time politics?
As a lifetime activist, I have interacted with the system, generally in despair when I see how undemocratic and self serving it really is. A simple vignette was how some us at the very beginning of the campaign process, tried to get Bernie to pay attention to the “charterization” process leading to the death of public ed. He, like the other candidates, turned a deaf ear to a meeting with Diane Ravitch, to have a sit down discussion on education.
And this is the Far Left Democratic Socialist.
The government has been stolen from ‘We the People’. It is run by the ‘Them the Bureaucrats’ who refuse to let any unknown light shine in. The media works hand in glove with this process of shielding their darlings, their benefactors, from the public.
How do we get a toe hold today?
Ellen,
$
Smiling with tears in my eyes, Abigail…it is always $$$. Remember that Trump bragged that he gave the Clintons so much $$ that they had to show up at his third wedding? And candidates who sit on the Boards of Monsanto and Walmart, and do legal work for Eli Broad who also brags about owning the Clintons, and candidates who make hundreds of millions of dollars speaking behind impenetrable walls, to corporate Wall Street greed meisters, are not taken seriously as saviors of the “little people” by most living at poverty level.
Yes, we must remember and heed history and those who make it, but we must find the strength to move forward and scream at each Trump outrage. And Dems damn well better reach across the aisle and find some Repubs who still have hearts, to influence every single vote. All we need are a handful of Repubs voting with Dems to keep the country somewhat steady, that is, if Trump does not just ignore Congress and use the military to take over completely as Dictator.
I keep remembering the Arab Spring.
The problem with not addressing issues:
Hillary was qualified. Some people like her. But she wasn’t clean and she carried a lot of baggage. She wasn’t great on my issues of immigration or education reform frankly. I preferred Bernie.
The reasons from my point of view I am worried about Hillary still are as follows:
There were significant caucus and primary manipulation problems technically legal A disenfranchised a body of activists like myself from the Democratic Party. The Nevada State Party with the help of Harry Reid openly cheated at the direction of Debbie Wasserman Schultz to ordained Hillary the candidate in the first in the west caucus state. Caucusing required 68 hours of time to participate so people were invested. A group of teachers caught the party cheating and then Metro was sent to arrest us. At the next level the party threatened 5,000 Bernie Caucus Goers with arrest – at the state level. Instead of unifying the party on issues – it was violent and dissent was not allowed. This was at the hand of those in power.
So this Hillary and Bernie discussion still going on – is not about the candidates.
It is about the invalid and undemocratic process.
The heavy handed tactics employed by the party will destroy the party.
This will fracture us unless it remedied.
Hillary was over-qualified on every level. But forcing people to support her did not work. And the party needs to acknowledge and learn that lesson fully so we can move forward.
What happened created a very irate massive group that is mad as hell.
The caucus system itself is undemocratic. Why should you have to invest 68 hours to cast a vote? How many people get to participate?
It is democratic to have a direct primary where large numbers may vote.
Should it be open to anyone or to registered voters in the party? I don’t know.
In New York, you have to be a Democrat to vote in the Democratic primary, a Republican to vote in the Republican Party primary. When I was an independent, I could not vote in the primaries at all.
On the other hand, when primaries are open, members of the other party can vote to choose the other party’s candidate, sometimes with ill intent.
But if you are able (physically and economically )but not willing to invest a few hours of your time perhaps you should forfeit your right to vote .Which is essentially what happens in a caucus . Come to think of it in the general as well . How does one sit home with so much on the line.
As for NY not rigged just ridicules. You have till a month before to register as a first time voter . But switching from Independent to one of the parties takes 6 months.
Joel,
I switched from independent to Democrat in NY and it didn’t take six months.
Diane
It takes 30 seconds to register a week to record it .
I was wrong the switch did not have to be made 180 days before the primary election . It had to be made 193 days before the primary .
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/its-far-harder-to-change-parties-in-new-york-than-in-any-other-state/
But the process like the electoral college was not created for this election . So neither rigged the election both need changing.
The problem is that the left kept repeating that the primary was “rigged”, which the alt right loved.
As far as I know, the rules for the primaries were exactly as they were when Obama defeated Hillary Clinton. As they were when Kerry won.
That isn’t rigging. That is having rules that you may want to change but that worked against Hillary Clinton when she ran 8 years ago.
Instead of whining that Obama “rigged” the primary, the Hillary Clinton voters supported Obama.
If they had copied Bernie supporters and done nothing but repeat the alt right memes about how corrupt Obama was and that his saying that PA voters “clung to their religion and guns” was a sign that he was so deeply out of touch that he needed to lose — and said it over and over again just like the Hillary-haters did — we’d probably have President McCain right now.
Nader voters didn’t help bring us Bush/Cheney just because they voted for Nader.
Nader voters helped bring us Bush/Cheney by repeating how terrible Al Gore was and how corrupt and lying and awful he was – no better than Bush. When “even Democrats” keep repeating those right wing talking points, the public believes them and many then voted for Bush. Just like most voters “knew” that Hillary Clinton was corrupt just like people who post on here kept telling us she was. I wonder if they feel good that their view of Hillary as a nasty, irredeemably corrupt woman was strongly supported by so many Americans. They should — they helped get that out to the public.
Angie tells it correctly. As she says, “it was the heavy handed tactics employed by the (Dem) party that will (did) destroy the party…” You can’t have a candidate just repeat what they did when they were 18 to benefit kids…all current issues of public concern must be addressed.
Bernie is NO orator, but he hit the youth with his issues/our issues like health care for all, no tuition, etc….repeated ad nauseum with wild haired sincerity…and they would have come out to vote for him. That is the demographic that pushed Obama into office. They stayed home on election day, as did the Black and Hispanic Dem voters.
Trump made good use of his own buffoon style to ridicule and deride Hillary…and he won for many reasons beyond the Rust Belt. There are droves of bigots who vote in America. They would not vote for a woman nor a Jew. But they love the blathering of a cretin and a bully of their own intellectual ilk. A know nothing to whom they could relate.
And it helps when you can buy the FBI.
Reblogged this on Lloyd Lofthouse.
Some of what can come across as “nihilism” appears to just be “socialism” — not as in “European socialism,” but as in “Marxist-Leninist.” The most recent example is “Allen,” who believes it should be illegal to own private property (which I assume goes further than Marx himself or the early USSR — historians, correct that assumption if it’s wrong). A while back, in a debate on a similar topic, “Ed Detective” (who, unlike Allen, is a perfectly nice guy) asked me whether “I believe in capitalism.” I answered yes, and Ed Detective’s response was, in essence, “That tells me all I need to know about you.” Really? I thought. But that’s the perspective that a lot of the Hillary hate is coming from. To a true anti-capitalist, there really isn’t much difference between Democrats or Republicans, because “revolution” is not in either party’s platform. And if your goal is to hasten the end of the capitalist system, I would think Trump would be a much more preferable choice for President than Hillary.
I’m not entirely convinced that “Allen” is real. I think there are right wingers posing as Bernie supporters who successfully riled up the anti-Hillary hate all over the internet.
Unless there was more nuance in the response about capitalism (as in extreme capitalism with no regulations can’t work), just posting some anti-capitalism screed is almost too idiotic to believe that the person is real.
I think the definition of those terms can be wide-ranging, and if we use them, they should be defined in context. As in, many people would say that Marxist-Leninist isn’t socialism but communism.
And there is “crony capitalism”, which I think a Trump Presidency will advance quite nicely, and living in a social democracy, which is how most capitalist countries — western Europe, Australia, Israel — function.
Allen’s real. Google his comments. He’s been cutting and pasting the same paragraphs since 2007.
What you purport is a bit convoluted FLERP…but I get your drift…and I miss Ed Detective who added much to our conversations.
I would like to clarify some points you made from my own perspective. I disagree that those who believe in either eradicating or at least reigning in the runaway capitalism since the Reagan years, are Marxist-Leninist. There has been no time in the history of the US when so few owned so much, and when so many were so economically demolished and left with little to no hope for the future. The history of this redistribution of wealth only upward is clearly recorded in many ways including the GDP, Dow Jones and the stock market, taxation patterns, off shoring, avoiding anti-Trust laws, special dispensation for investment income v. earned income, how Social Security is set up to stop FICA at only a top income of $118,500, WAR for oil, etc.
Keynsians such as I, view the future with a need to balance wealth with equity and with stimulus. The Von Mises and Austrian School, including Friedman, Stigler, etc. believe only in austerity, but not for themselves. They have no compunctions of using corporate welfare to enrich themselves, while damning the poverty stricken for using food stamps to stay alive.
I consider myself a Democratic Socialist, not a Marxist, and do not want to see Bloody Revolution, but I cannot find any place in the Dem party that adheres to this goal. I do find too many Dems similar to too many Repubs (e.g. DW-S, Schmur, etc.) in their greed and lust for endless power. You should not go into Congress poor or middle class and come out decades later with millions of bucks. And if you were in the WH for 8 years, you should not claim ‘boo hoo’ that you came out broke when you own homes worth $12 M and you have the opportunity of doing things that offer little value, like speaking engagements, but bring to you the wealth of kings. A little humbleness goes a long way. People have long memories especially after you caused two of the greatest economic conflagrations in our nation’s history, NAFTA and killing Glass Steagal. No amount of sweet talk can remedy those two events.
The system en toto is broken. The caucuses are a blight on democracy as is the Electoral College..and yes, California with over 36 Million people deserves a greater voice than the Dakotas with less people than the city of LA. And the palaver of the NYC person that kept wandering in her own sandstorm of mental confusion by comparing Russ Feingold to Hillary Clinton in terms of getting votes, which is like comparing Carl Lewis to Heidi Fleiss, shows how ignorant the American public can be.
We do not need two year campaigns, nor billion dollar costs to campaign, nor endless sound bites bought only to influence the truly ignorant who probably should not be urged to vote in the first place.
“comparing Russ Feingold to Hillary Clinton in terms of getting votes, which is like comparing Carl Lewis to Heidi Fleiss”
I don’t even know what you mean by this statement.
But I suggest you read the new Frank Bruni’s NY Times column about Rob Portman’s huge victory in the Senate in Ohio to see how voters will ALWAYS vote for a good Senate candidate that they adore — regardless of party — if that candidate is offering something that they want.
From Bruni’s article:
“I’m referring to Senator Rob Portman’s re-election in Ohio. His seat was one that Democrats identified early as a potential steal, and through much of 2015 and 2016, political analysts tagged the race as one of the most competitive in the country. But he ended up winning by 21 points.
Trump beat Hillary Clinton in Ohio by a smaller margin of eight points…”
Portman’s victory was a whopping 13 percentage points higher than Trump’s victory with the same voters.
Feingold’s loss was a worse than Hillary’s. In other words, more Wisconsin voters preferred his opponent than they preferred Trump.
But instead of addressing that, your answer is “it’s just like Carl Lewis and Heidi Fleiss”??
But you managed to get in more of your digs about how nasty I am for daring to mention this. I should be more like a Trump voter and just accept the nonsense the great minds tell me to believe with evidence like “Carl Lewis/Heidi Feiss”.
And to think people have the chutzpah to actually criticize the Trump voters who believe the lies they read on the alt right media. I’m supposed to believe that Bernie would have wiped up the floor in Wisconsin despite Feingold’s loss because someone “smart” told me that was the case. Using logic like “Carl Lewis / Heidi Fleiss”.
As much as I am sick of fighting with you, I refuse to abandon all logic to make you happy. I’m not a Trump voter, as much as you seem to wish I had their intelligence and belief in whatever people tell me without needing any evidence.
The reason I post here is that is scares me that no one is addressing why Russ Feingold lost to Johnson who offered nothing to teachers, nothing to workers, nothing at all but a propaganda campaign.
He was exactly the candidate that was supposed to win. But he lost. And it was a wholehearted rejection of the progressive agenda. Isn’t it important to look at why that message got lost instead of blaming Hillary and thinking if only Russ had run nationally he would have won? When he couldn’t even win his own state against a sell-out to special interest who undermined every pro-labor ideal who the voters still wanted to vote for. It’s important to examine why it happened so we can get those people elected next time. That’s why the Hillary bashing is so useless and detrimental because it ignores a much bigger problem. Russ Feingold wasn’t offering those white working class voters anything they wanted. Nothing at all. They obviously wanted to blame someone and it was never going to be the rich.
I’ll leave it to those better-versed than I in economics and history to define Marxism-Leninism. Allen says he wants a system where private property should be seized by the state, and I take him at his word. I recall Ed Detective giving the early USSR as a model of the sort of socialism he would like to see in America. Whatever terms you use, “eradicating” capitalism and “reining in” capitalism are radically different concepts that do not belong in the same category. Reining capitalism in is a matter of regulation. Eradicating it is matter of revolution, and not a “velvet” one.
You have given me much to consider FLERP.
The “early USSR model” was not only a dangerous form of governing, but it failed.
And you are correct that I should have separated “eradicating capitalism” from ‘regulating’ it strictly.
When I see flagrant disregard of anti Trust laws by our government, Dem and Repub administrations, and no banksters, blatant crooks, being indicted for multiple frauds and ‘creative’ book keeping, I fear that the nation is controlled by only one party, the Wall Street Bonfire of the Vanities guys who live high off the hard work of others.
It was a Dem prez, Bill Clinton, who protected ONLY the Wall Streeters by demolishing Glass Steagall, and it was the next Dem prez, Obama, who continued this debacle by not pressing for HIS DoJ to indict the many crooks who brought down the US and the world’s economies…and by allowing the law to change to protect the banksters and allow them to take even greater risks with the guarantee of FDIC protection. A lose-lose for the Middle Class who pays the freight for their crimes.
As a lifelong Dem, this gave/gives me great pain, and it is why I supported Bernie.
FLERP! said:
“A while back, in a debate on a similar topic, “Ed Detective” (who, unlike Allen, is a perfectly nice guy) asked me whether “I believe in capitalism.” I answered yes, and Ed Detective’s response was, in essence, “That tells me all I need to know about you.”
I don’t believe I ever said that, or that I would say that. Can you please find that comment if it’s true?
“I recall Ed Detective giving the early USSR as a model of the sort of socialism he would like to see in America. “
Not quite. You asked about real examples of socialism in history and I pointed to a few examples, one being the very beginnings of the USSR in which there was a radical “democracy” by the working class in economy and government. I did not necessarily mean it was a fully viable model except in certain respects.
“To a true anti-capitalist, there really isn’t much difference between Democrats or Republicans, because “revolution” is not in either party’s platform.”
Again, not accurate. You don’t have to be a “socialist” to understand that there are not huge differences in the Democratic and Republican parties. It’s not about “revolution,” it’s that both parties are funded/controlled by big money and power interests, both have continued the decline of the poor and middle class, both have failed to act on the most important issues that face our nation and world, and both parties have been complicit in charting our trajectory toward disaster. For goodness sake, we’re on Diane Ravitch’s blog, most of us here know about the bipartisan support for the destruction of public education. Do you think public education is the only issue that has bipartisan support? Nope: war, poverty, and even racism (though one party is more overtly racist and the other party is more structural in perpetuating racism) have been advanced by both parties.
To DIANE Ravitch:
I am still unsubscribed to this blog and occasionally skim the headlines, this is the only article I clicked. You still are delusional about Hillary Clinton and how grossly the Democratic Party/DNC and Mainstream MEDIA RIGGED, yes, rigged, the primaries for Hillary Clinton. The longer you tell former Bernie supporters that they are wrong, when they saw it with their own eyes, and the longer you continue to ignore the massive shortcomings of Hillary Clinton and pretend she’s a great person and has done little wrong, and would have done little wrong as president — the longer you will get pushback from former Bernie supporters.
Donald Trump was not elected because of ONE GUY. He was elected because the COUNTRY IS PISSED OFF due to government leaving them behind and taking away everything they had. Please GET OUT OF YOUR BUBBLE and understand that. Then maybe the ones you want to move on, will move on, on your blog.
Also, while you still lecture former Bernie supporters, most of those fighting back in ACTION against Trump are… former Bernie supporters. Whereas the few grassroots ‘Hillary’ groups seemed to have withered out after her campaign, along with Hillary herself, Bernie is the lead voice for activists in this nation, and hundreds of his campaign groups are carrying on the fight beyond the ballot box.
People understand that it is time to fight against Trump, but the longer the delusion continues that Hillary and her campaign and her party were not the problem, and everything was fair for Bernie, the longer and harder people will fight back against those lies.
Ed,
I don’t want to prolong the debate about the primaries.
As you said, the problem right now and for at least the next four years is Trump. Not Hillary. Trump. He will soon put his stamp on the Supreme Court. This will be a long struggle and there is nothing to gain by continuing the in-fighting. It is called forming a circular firing squad. The left is famous for that.
Diane, to unite the left, it is important to understand the real reasons why Hillary Clinton lost and Trump won. It is important to understand the failures of the Democratic party, politics-as-usual, and the mainstream media. It is important to understand that Hillary Clinton, everything about her politics and lifestyle, and everyone defending and advancing her political campaigns, paved the way to Donald Trump.
Ed,
Yes and no. Hillary won 2.5 million votes more than Trump. A shift of 100,000 votes out of 125 million cast and Trump would have lost.
If we continue fighting, we will never unite to recapture any part of the government. That would be a tragedy.
Yes the electoral college does complicate things, but Trump got the support he did because the country is outraged and thought Trump would fix their problems.
He is a world-class liar. He won’t do anything he promised. As Gail Collins wrote yesterday, he has already forgotten everything he promised.
By the way, I lost readers who liked Trump. They thought I was unfair to him. Can’t please everyone.
He is a terrible liar, but spoke to peoples’ hopes that he would solve very real and very big problems that exist.
And he won’t
thats the definition of a con man
Promise anything. Even the impossible
If they fall for it, not your fault
But why are so many people falling for it?
Ed, did you ever see the musical “Chicago”? It is on video. See it. The conniving lawyer sings a song called “Razzle Dazzle.” That’s Trump.
Ok, I’ll put it on my list…
Ed,
It would be far easier for me to tell you what you want to hear and keep my views to myself. I would love to have you return as a regular reader. But just as you express yourself candidly, I must do the same. Your voice has never been silenced here. You speak honestly. Give me the same respect for my views.
I want to hear your views honestly, just hope that you are being honest in examining this issue.
…of course, she is not the sole problem, just the one who may best represent it.
Hillary Clinton is a lesson to be learned. I won’t stop talking about it until I think enough of us learned the lesson.
To FLERP!:
I found the conversation where I asked you about your economic beliefs: snapshot
Also, here was my comment about historical examples and a brief summary of my view of socialism vs capitalism, and the way to proceed: https://dianeravitch.net/2016/10/10/my-reflection-on-the-second-presidential-debate/#comment-2605106
I don’t necessarily advocate for the immediate abolition of capitalism (though that would be nice and I’d get on board) but I do think socialism (democracy in the workplace, economy, government, and as many social institutions as possible, like schools) is a great goal to have.
Even if the goal were just “better” capitalism, like the social democracy of some European states, I would be terribly upset with both of our major political parties. When universal healthcare is considered a radical idea in our country, and neither party is doing much about it, and Hillary Clinton yells passionately at a rally that it will “never, ever happen,” that says a lot about our politics. The democrats, by doing little to oppose the republican agenda, are little better than villains to me. Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere, the only way evil flourishes is if good people do nothing, the moderate liberal enables oppression by valuing order over justice — and on and on, from our civil rights and moral leaders throughout time.
I got it a bit wrong, see below. Yet another piece of evidence of how unreliable everyone’s memory of everything is.
https://dianeravitch.net/2016/10/10/my-reflection-on-the-second-presidential-debate/#comments
Ed Detective on October 14, 2016 at 5:08 pm
FLERP, do you believe in capitalism as an economic system?
FLERP! on October 14, 2016 at 5:10 pm
Yes, I do. Of course, it’s the only one I’ve ever known.
Ed Detective on October 14, 2016 at 5:18 pm
I learned more accurately about your political/economic beliefs with that one question (and your answer) than by looking at your numeric test results. Just saying to the ed reformer people.
Reblogged this on Out crawls Angy.. and commented:
Time to get focused.. and stay focused..
The United States is (“are”?) unusual in that it was essentially formed by contract and compromise, i.e. the Articles of Confederation and the Constitution. Federalism was the bargain and it’s baked into our politics and law. Whether it’s fair is irrelevant. It’s bedrock. “Federalism Happens.”
Now you’re talkin’….but I still hope to get rid of the Electoral College..and the pointless undemocratic caucuses. We have to have clear goals to work toward for the betterment of the process, not curl up in a fetal position and Wait for Godot.
Uniting to fight Trump, while an important action, does not dismiss the ongoing failure of establishment Dems which is why we’re still talking about the Hillary loss….even now. Let’s examine the optics, shall we? When Hills fan, David Brock, just after the election schedules a meeting of 200+ well heeled donors in Palm Beach, Florida over inauguration weekend to fundraise for his “new” Koch-brothers-like donor network there instead of, say, hollowed out Cleveland Ohio (where there is a Ritz-Carlton downtown, btw) you know the message has not been received. The optics of his coming event are self-evident. The same group-think cadre of people will be featured there: Democratic elected officials, operatives and liberal thinkers and group officials (the entire “we know best team” of grifters) – you know – the group that blew $687+ million of Dem money. The donors need to spend some time in the hollowed-out Great Lakes states (OH, PA, IN, IL, MI, WI) because they sure as heck aren’t getting the message – even now.
Yep!
pnwarriorwoman,
The Democrats are not interested in getting the message. We are all in the Basket of Deplorables with our petty concerns. They are the Meritocracy.
“But the other basket — and I know this because I see friends from all over America here — I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas — as well as, you know, New York and California — but that other basket of people are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they’re just desperate for change. It doesn’t really even matter where it comes from. They don’t buy everything he says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won’t wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they’re in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well.”
Is that the message you think Democrats should get, Abigail Shure?
You think this person believes your concerns are “petty”?
You think this person believes herself better and more “meritorious” than you?
You think this person is the most crooked liar in American history who doesn’t mean a word she just said?
You think this person had no intention of helping anyone, just like she didn’t go hat in hand to get the Child Health Plus program in place so that millions and millions of children had cheap health insurance instead of being forced to go to charity hospitals and hope for someone to feel sorry for them?
You think this person planned to screw working families because she was lying through her teeth when she mentioned these people and she couldn’t wait to screw them and benefit the richest people in America? You think she ran for President to try to screw the working class and get whatever she could for her billionaire friends and herself?
If so, you have lots of company. And our country will suffer mightily for it.
Thank you NYC public school parent for your clear mindset. I support your point of view 1000% regarding Secretary Hillary Clinton whose “hard headed” character I really admire.
I am shocking to read expression from veteran educator like Abigail Shure who always has such a childish mindset (= no reasonable principle in reality) that has easily trusted in all fabricated news by GOP for the past 6 years+
Being an immigrant who lived under communist authority (= lie, cheat, oppress in lawless system), I am terrified to be surrounded by intelligent, but gullible people like Abigail Shure.
Hopefully, there will be more parents like you who thoroughly understand the principle in diplomacy and decency. IMHO, each profession requires specific character and personality = principle or frame work. We cannot expect business class who DONATES freely without an appraisal of an exponential return. In the same token, we cannot expect politicians to be honest and to love enemies who seek to destroy politicians.
In short, I really don’t give a hood how rich the Clinton’s is and how Clinton’s administration’s foreign policy is against terrorists. BUT, I really care how Clinton’s domestic policy whether it is to IMPROVE American Security, American Public Education, American healthcare, and American infrastructure. This will enhance American people to exercise their BASIC human rights like freedom expression in comical clubs or shows to satirize political point of view, or to organize a peaceful gathering in order to protest whatever upsets citizens…Back2basic
The Hillary/Bill/Barack folks had better read this: Listen Liberal, by Thomas Frank. See the reviews at GoodReads. http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25666062-listen-liberal.
Hillary Clinton, like the other neo-liberals, was campaigning on red herring issues of social policy which did not threaten the war-corporate-police state which has grown exponentially since the days of Nixon.