Dana Milbank, who writes for the Washington Post, had a good column yesterday about Donald Trump’s incitement of political violence.
Perhaps you remember the crowds chanting “Lock her up!” at the GOP convention.
That’s the least of it.
His longtime confidant Roger Stone has talked about a “bloodbath” — rhetorical, he insists — if Trump loses, and Stone has suggested that Clinton should be “executed.” There have been a score of violent confrontations at Trump events, among supporters, opponents, journalists and staff. Shouts of “hang the bitch” are not uncommon at Trump rallies.
Trump has made a point of hinting, implying, and encouraging physical actions against demonstrators and against his opponent.
He has the mindset of a dictator, a strong man, a guy who must flaunt his testosterone. He is scary.
The smell of fascism is in the air.
Posted at Oped new with this comment
http://www.opednews.com/Quicklink/How-Trump-winks-at-politic-in-Best_Web_OpEds-Confrontation_Political-Hypocrisy_Political-Insanity_Political-Opportunism-GOP-160920-141.html#comment618839
His strategy is to induce FEAR, so that people will vote for him… cause HE SAYS he is tough.
Ironically, the fear he produces is that he will be our President, and thus, FEAR is WISDOM IN THE FACE OF SUCH DANGER… for this man is insane, not merely a charlatan and incompetent at everything except cheating.
Why do you imagine he won’t produce his income taxes. “The New Yorker” explains why in this link! http://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/does-donald-trump-pay-any-income-taxes-at-all
It will show the people how he gamed our laws and cheated this nation out of revenue.
We don’t need a ‘cheater-in-chief!
We don’t need a needy nerd who is easily insulted and moved to incivility.
But most of all, we cannot let such a personality have access to our weapons and our military.
It is time to STOP TRUMP!
Let the MEDIA KNOW THAT YOU ARE TIRED OF non-stop TRUMP!
Yes, but Hillary is corrupt and will sell out our country to the highest bidder and the only reason she isn’t in jail for all her illegal actions is that the FBI is just as corrupt as Hillary and gave her a free pass. She is a war monger and she wants the terrorists to win. You may think Obama is okay, but Hillary Clinton is one million times worse than Obama could ever hope to be and she believes in doing whatever the rich Wall Street crowd tells her.
It’s too little too late for the media to finally address who Trump really is. After all, for the last 4 months we have heard nothing but how evil Hillary Clinton is. So no matter how bad Trump is, at least he didn’t sell out our country. At least he doesn’t lie through his teeth about how he sold out our state secrets for a little money.
The above is basically what every non-despicable person who hates Hillary Clinton and says “how bad can Trump really be” believes. And nothing you can say here will ever convince them that the entire blame for Trump’s rise is all on Hillary Clinton and not their own myopic view that everything she does is hateful and corrupt.
Not only do they attack Hillary Clinton in a way that Karl Rove and company cheer on, but then they have the chutzpah to BLAME Hillary for not getting enough people to believe that she is not the most corrupt Presidential candidate in the last 200 years.
You don’t have to think Hillary Clinton is perfect or without major flaws to understand that the people who despise her and post the kinds of things they post and claim to adore Bernie are about as misguided as they come. And Bernie would be the first to tell them so himself.
NYC Parent,
Way too many sensible people have swallowed the right wing swill about Hillary.
We may have different views about education–she is much too close to the Center for Anerican Progress crowd for me–she may support private charters–which I think is wrong–but on every other issue, she’s on the right side of history. This election ought to be a blowout. Trump is an ignorant bigot. Our allies help this jerk by knocking Hillary. They should listen to Bernie. Trump is unfit to be anything but a reality star.
I don’t understand how some of the posters on here — educators, yet! — do not fathom the difference between genuine criticism of a candidates’ views and embracing the caricature that Rove/Ailes want them to embrace. No wonder some ignorant millennials are turning away from Hillary. I probably would, too, if I had no means to distinguish from the so-called Bernie fans’ attacks on Hillary and the reality that she is a real flawed person still capable of doing some good in our country and not simply a tool of evil people promising her riches. And the jury is still out as to whether Hillary Clinton is nearly as flawed as Obama is. She may very well be much, much better than Obama. There is reason to believe she will be (no guarantees), unless you have embraced the right wing narrative about how corrupt she is.
I just read Bernie’s op ed in the LA Times. He has never done to Hillary what his supporters did and painted her as evil. But his supporters still prefer to believe that Bernie is the world’s biggest sell out than accept that their Karl Rove inspired embrace of Hillary as corrupt through and through is wrong.
I get attacked for saying this, but I believe it is far easier to be blasé about Trump’s rise if you are white. Just as it was far easier to be blasé about Hitler’s coming to power if you were a Christian Aryan. It’s easy to say “well I never supported him” and constantly attack his opponent in the name of some higher goal if you are pretty certain your family won’t be one of the scapegoats for his failings.
I do not like the Clintons. But Hillary is not corrupt as much as untrustworthy. I grew tired of the Clintons when Bill was president. Just too much parsing of words and squishy non-transparency.
But Clinton was not charged with a crime by the FBI or anybody else. That is a fact. We can’t ignore laws or attack the FBI just because we don’t agree that a political opponent was cleared.
Hillary we know. She’s been in office so long and under so many investigations, there isn’t much that hasn’t been discussed in the open.
Trump we do not know. He has a sketchy history and will not release his tax returns. He has not been thoroughly vetted and when he is, we see payoffs and manipulation of the system. He even admits this as normal.
But most disturbing is Trump’s behavior. He attacks at the slightest provocation and his response is disproportional. He seems to completely lack or understand empathy- an important trait for a leader. Trump says what is convenient rather than necessary. His speeches are full of hints of violence and extremism, inciting his followers into irrational acts.
Trump lacks coherent and clear policy. So far, we see warmed over trickle down economics coupled with strong man global policy. His relationship with Putin is vague. If nothing else, Putin would sense Trump’s weakness and play him as a fool. Trump lacks intelligence and finesse.
Not to be ignored is the President’s control of the military, including the sole control of the nuclear arsenal. If that doesn’t give you second thoughts, nothing will.
But as you stated for the record Hillary is “untrustworthy”. Why would you trust her with the nuclear arsenal any more than Trump?
See, everyone believes you when you explain the truth about Hillary. She is untrustworthy, period. We don’t know whether Trump is trustworthy or not, but since even her so-called “supporters” like you keep telling us how untrustworthy Hillary is — over and over and over again — better to have Trump who may or may not prove to be untrustworthy.
You have just convinced millennium voters that even people who vote for her know how “untrustworthy” Hillary is. Karl Rove couldn’t have written that script better if he had tried. She can’t be trusted. Let’s try someone new.
Donald Trump says thank you.
Hillary is untrustworthy, but not insane. I do not “trust” her with the nuclear codes in the sense of blind faith. I do, however, observe her behavior and believe she will make deliberate, thoughtful decisions based on careful consideration of the situation and outcomes. My expectations of Clinton is based on her past behavior and her experience. The useless political argument over email servers seems more distracting as a fabrication of alt-right winged, talk radio and desperate Republicans.
Whether I trust Trump or not is irrelevant, really. What concerns me is his behavior. It is irrational and disturbing. Based on what I’ve seen, Trump lacks empathy and a rational approach to problems. He says whatever works for the moment on impulse. When challenged he deflects and counters, often with a vulgar, disproportionate response. There is a lack of forethought or careful consideration of outcome. I suspect he has a personality disorder.
It is possible to despise someone and still have expectations they will do the job as expected. Take emotion out of it. Yes, I do not like Hillary and think she is not a great candidate. But that doesn’t matter. I judge she will get the job done and I will “hire” her. Trump, on the other hand, raises too many red flags and unknowns. He’s fired.
“I do, however, observe her behavior and believe she will make deliberate, thoughtful decisions based on careful consideration of the situation and outcomes.”
That is the OPPOSITE of untrustworthy. You have made it clear she is untrustworthy. What else can voters think but that they can not trust her to make those decisions? If you believe that sentence you just wrote, you would never call Hillary “untrustworthy”.
And maybe if some of the so-called Bernie supporters had not completed upended his message and turned their difference in opinion on some issues into “Hillary is untrustworthy”, you would not have so many people willing to take a chance with another “untrustworthy” candidate.
It is probably too late. Your “untrustworthy” meme has become unstoppable.
About the untrustworthiness of Hillary Clinton: Anne Richards from Texas, when she was alive, had to deal with the Rove machine during her election bids. She said that during her campaign, she woke up every morning wondering what kind of “spaghetti” they had thrown at the wall TODAY? It was daily diatribe of some sort or other of inuendo, distraction, deliberate misinterpretation, and outright lies. She said that when so much spaghetti was thrown at the wall over and over again, some of it was bound to stick.
I wonder, since Hillary has been in the Rove et al sights for so long, how much of Hillary’s famous untrustworthy-ness is really just so much Republican and Fox News-thrown spaghetti?
You completely missed my point. I’ve worked in plenty of situations where I did not “trust” someone but I did expect they would do the job. Frankly, I do not “trust” any politician, which is why we need a healthy free press unencumbered by corporate ownership. Again, as below, I’ll quote Saint Ronald “trust but verify”. Observing her behavior and drawing conclusions is not “trust”. It is rational thinking and judgment. Something I observe lacking in Trump.
“Trust” implies blind faith. I do not even trust my cat, that he won’t attack me while I’m sleeping. He stays downstairs.
Math Vale, I appreciate your unique view of what it means to be untrustworthy. No doubt voters who believe you and all the other people constantly shouting about how untrustworthy Hillary is didn’t realize that you meant that EVERY politician is untrustworthy and you didn’t mean to single her out as particularly bad and in fact, she is no more untrustworthy than your cat.
Certainly we should blame the ignorant voters for not understanding that when supposedly intelligent people who are Democrats are shouting through the rooftops about how “untrustworthy” Hillary Clinton is, they really just mean that you shouldn’t put BLIND FAITH in any politician, period and didn’t mean to single out Hillary as particularly untrustworthy.
When 75% of the voters who don’t vote for Hilary Clinton cite the fact that she can’t be trusted as the main reason they aren’t voting for her, no doubt you can say “oops! I guess they just misunderstood me.”
I’m sorry to sound so angry, but with friends like you, no wonder Hillary could lose this election to someone spouting fascist views. And you do not even realize the damage you have done. Karl Rove and Roger Ailes are laughing at you. Seriously, you could not have done their bidding more if they had paid you.
Those cats are very sneaky and confusing and untrustworthy: Always hiding underneath cars with their creepy eyes, looking angelic right after they killed an innocent lizard, not having any cat friends because they alienate and attack them, wanting attention but not wanting too much attention, leaving part of their kill on our doorstep because they didn’t realize you found that distasteful, running away or fighting tooth and claw before they can be taken to the vet, and getting ringworm and giving it to your four-year old.
Yeah, cats and politicians, especially Hillary, have a lot in common. But cats are so much better than birds: They at least know not to squawk, drop food, and shit over their own food and water.
I do not understand why Trump keeps getting away with this repugnant behavior. He tries to incite others to violence. These are called “stochastic threats.” We need a code of conduct for candidates; candidates should should have to conduct themselves in a civil way. http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/trumps-assassination-dog-whistle-was-scarier-than-you-think-w433615
If Trump were a student, he would be suspended or expelled for his behavior
Oh, he was. That’s why he was sent to a military school.
LOL.
LOL.
Didn’t he brag about punching a teacher?
Probably just the other day.
Who cares? Hillary is “untrustworthy” and that’s all that matters.
Even today, with Trump’s rise, the meme of Hillary being untrustworthy continues unabated. And then people ask “why can’t Hillary connect with voters?” Maybe it is because you have already done such a fabulous job of convincing the public that even Democrats know that she is “untrustworthy”.
Ok, I think you’ve drilled your “untrustworthy” rant into the blogosphere and we have heard you. Time to move on. I am.
If I could just add one more thing: TRUSTWORTHY. Also, UNTRUSTWORTHY.
You aren’t actually moving on since you still keep talking about how untrustworthy Hillary is. Maybe if you and other disappointed Bernie voters started talking about how TRUSTWORTHY she is, it might do some good.
Or keep defining “untrustworthy” in your own special way so you can keep bashing Hillary Clinton over the head with it and then wonder why the millenniums who listen to people like you won’t vote for her.
Vale Math,
From today’s NY Times article “The Bernie Bump”:
“Jessica Visconte, a senior at SUNY New Paltz, said she hadn’t heard of Ms. Teachout before the rally. She added that many of her fellow students voted for Mr. Sanders in the presidential race, and have now turned their support to the Green Party candidate, Jill Stein. She said she found Mrs. Clinton UNTRUSTWORTHY because of her shifting stance on issues.”
And as long as people like you keep telling those voters that they are absolutely right about Hillary Clinton’s untrustworthiness, Trump and company are very likely to win.
Reblogged this on Politicians Are Poody Heads and commented:
I hate to invoke Godwin’s Law, but it does seem appropriate in the case of Trump and his enablers.
And I’m not sure that Trump himself could stop the worst of what would happen if (G-d forbid) he should win. And if he would even want to.
Roger Stone is an especially nasty piece of work, totally amoral and without any restraints or scruples. He’s the Karl Rove or one of the Karl Roves of the Trump supporters.
They hint at violence, killings and assassinations……..no problem. Josef Goebbels is leering from his pit of flames in hell.
The only sane thing to do is to vote for Hillary.
“. . . a guy who must flaunt his testosterone.”
What the hell does “must flaunt his testosterone” even mean?
That comment has all the makings of a misandrist sexist comment-totally uncalled for.
Duane, not uncalled for.
What presidential candidate in history ever published his testerone level before Trump?
Interested in Hillary’s bra size?
I feel as if I am living in an alternate reality!
I remember fine men like FDR, Truman, Ike, JFK and Johnson, up to and including the Bushes, all of who ascended to the presidency, and brought wonderful wives into the White House, WITHOUT TOUTING either the size of their genitals or the hotness of their daughter or wife.
This lewd, ignorant, intolerant, psychotic narcissist would be laughed off the stage at any other time in our history.
The conversation TODAY, like the one about our schools, is controlled and directed by an out-of-control 21ST CENTURY ENTERTAINMENT NEW/MEDIA –run by men with 12 year old mentalities, who push crap at the people and call it ‘news!’
I feel so sorry for Hillary, and although I don’t much like her, and do not envy her, I do admire her.
I think Hillary handled Jimmy Kimmel’s satiric commentary well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2wBpYT6Zlo
“Her policies and decades of public service and body of expertise in multiple areas ignored as vapid journalists, secure in the “narrative” they established, ask “why are you not trusted, why don’t people like you” without a shred of irony or recognition. She’s leading, the first woman in history to run, and the question is “why is it even close? What are you doing wrong?” says C. Julie in the Daily Kos,
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/9/18/1525197/-Unbelievable-MTP-misogyny-Nana-Clinton-Do-they-even-hear-themselves-A-rant?detail=email&link_id=1&can_id=47594dc7343bb19ac4f7621b50e457f8&source=email-unbelievable-meet-the-press-misogyny-nana-clinton-do-they-even-hear-themselves-a-rant&email_referrer=unbelievable-meet-the-press-misogyny-nana-clinton-do-they-even-hear-themselves-a-rant&email_subject=unbelievable-meet-the-press-misogyny-nana-clinton-do-they-even-hear-themselves-a-rant
Julie says: “This is all very depressing. “Can a woman never hope to be evaluated fairly for abilities and contributions when she’s older, as a man of any age is? This is making me very angry, when I’m not disheartened, discouraged or depressed. It hurts. You know?”
Trump published his “testosterone levels”? I hadn’t heard that. Wow! I understand now why you wrote what you wrote. My apologies for jumping on you!
And to answer your last question: NO!-ha ha!
And I thought it couldn’t get any stranger. Ay, ay, ay.
I don’t watch TV so I’m not as up to snuff on all of these inanities but I’m completely fed up with this election cycle that is like no other that I know of.
Ohmigosh! Do you know this: “The political world was abuzz last night with the news (which, as is fitting for this insane election, was disseminated in a most bizarre fashion) that former Republican president George H.W. Bush (“41”) is apparently going to vote for Hillary Clinton.”
http://www.mediaite.com/online/poppy-bush-is-allegedly-voting-for-gasp-hillary-rodham-clinton/
Then H.W. refused to admit it. Party before country. I know he’s up there in years, but H.W. still can’t shake the “wimp” label.
He may win.
His campaign is gathering momentum. Even the big meta-people who once openly and loudly spoke about how Hillary had an electoral map that was nearly a lock, are showing that in fact that map is changing. What was once a near given is no longer. This horrifies me and brings me to nausea.
I refuse to entertain ideas of moving to Canada or some island off the coast of Ireland. I have to be a citizen and take responsibility. Trump and everything he represents is the worst of us bubbling up because these things were never addressed. The vile racism, sexism, homophobia, stupid-nationalism, red-baiting, everything-baiting, deep antiintellectualism are all unaddressed sicknesses gone malignant in our society. Every one of these malignancies was, at one point or another, compromised into a kind of remission….negotiated, salved…but never dealt with properly. Every one. Now there is a furious relapse.
The right wing of our country has masterfully played a patient long-game. Keeping the hearts beating of racism, sexism, white-nationalism, virulent-nasty capitalism, etc. Many on the right are horrified by Trump….but they fail to acknowledge their role in keeping the hearts beating of the worst, most inhumane things in our culture. Talking about poor people the way they have for 40 years, women’s rights, etc…..they were all co-signing the order to keep the hearts beating.
There is a lesson in here for us teachers and the fight we are in. A lesson about having to extinguish the life of heinous ideas and not sitting at tables of compromise, doing deals on fundamental things. But I fear that we may soon have much bigger issues to worry about.
Hope I’m wrong.
There is a lesson here on the LEFT.
Not Bernie Sanders who understands very well what this election is all about. But the haters and embracers who have made Hillary Clinton the embodiment of all that has ever been corrupt in American society. Their full throated embrace has convinced many Americans that Trump’s lies are no worse, and in a choice of two big liars, why not pick the outsider.
The irony is Hillary Clinton is probably one of the most liberal candidates the Dems have offered in decades. Maybe she will prove to be just as “Republican lite” than Obama. But there is also reason to believe that she won’t. And in a DIFFERENT kind of election, the right that convinced those people of Hillary’s “money trumps all” corruption would be talking about her being a flaming socialist who will abolish all private property.
The despicables will always be with us. But takes a constant drumbeat of lies where the alternative to the candidate the despicables embrace because he speaks to them is held out by people who should know better as “just as corrupt”. And when they are called on it, they say “didn’t you notice the fine print where I said maybe she is not quite as corrupt as Trump so don’t blame me”.
I so appreciate your cogent dissection of the “yeah but Hillary is untrustworthy crowd”. People repeat that meme mindlessly, based on nothing, or discredited allegations. Keep pounding at it – I’m a supporter on the other coast.
Thank you. I know I sound like a broken record, but if it stops even one of these extremely naive anti-Hillary posters on here from continuing onto a path that is playing right into the right wing’s hands, it will be worth it.
There is a poster on here named FLERP! who disagrees and believes this election is a joke. FLERP! tries his best to make fun of my concern about how dangerous this misuse of language can be. I appreciate hearing from someone like you that other people who don’t find the election all a big joke understand why I keep pounding at it.
I am happy to be the object of their attack if it stops the “Hillary is untrustworthy” meme that was designed by Rove/Ailes and company to elect their candidate.
Duane: equine detritus!!!!!!!!
You don’t watch TV. So what, you are obviously on the Internet, don’t you frequent some news sites that might have informed you about Trump’s letter with his testosterone level?
Cancel the equine detritus. Just joshing.
From mother jones: The letter Donald Trump released on Thursday from his longtime physician, Dr. Harold Bornstein, featured one strange-but-Trumpian detail: his testosterone level.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/09/donald-trump-testosterone-test-health
Like!
No, not the fact of the Trumpsters testosterone levels but of the equine detritus. Nice little twist!
Yes, it seems antithetical that someone lives without the idiot box-TV AND without a cell phone in order to be instantaneously connected 16/7-you gotta sleep sometime. Do I miss some news instantaneously? You bet! But I eventually hear about such entrancing things as T’sTlevel, you know, within a day or so, oh so slow!
But I do get a natural show like the other day when I heard a bird sing, actually warble. It hopped up the spruce limb closer to me and warbled again. Had to look it up in my hand bird book-a warbling vireo. Get to add that to my list.
Or driving down the gravel road and passing up a copperhead and backing up to get a better look. It’s a beautiful snake but don’t get bit by it. It was far enough away from any homes so it went on it’s merry way. Yes, we will kill them if they are right at someone’s home-can’t take the chance.
Or like last night having a squirrel bitch it’s head off at me for coming out on the porch. Talked squirrel right back at him. They’re one of my favorites to watch cavorting in the treetops, absolutely amazing how they get around.
Don’t always need technology to mediate reality, eh!
Just read a piece in The Atlantic about the “wave of misogyny” that’s been unleashed by Hillary’s candidacy. http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/10/fear-of-a-female-president/497564/
Maybe readers here have already mentioned this article?
Why is Hillary being attacked the way she is? The behavior dissected in the article is very disturbing. How can it be tolerated in the United States, circa 2016?
I will vote for her on November 8.
According to some anti-Hillary people on here, she is being attacked that way because she is the most corrupt candidate in the history of Presidential elections.
Or maybe she is just “untrustworthy” period.
Sure Donald Trump seems bad, but we already know without a doubt that Hillary is “untrustworthy”. After all, so many self-described Democrats keep saying that so it must be true. You can’t trust her farther than you can throw her. And then they profess ignorance as to why she can’t convince millennials to vote for her. Maybe because they believe so much in her “untrustworthiness” that is so blatantly awful that even her so-called supporters can’t help but acknowledge it.
I think you hung up on this idea of “trust”. Maybe we should quote Reagan “trust but verify” when discussing Clinton. Voters can and should stay informed if Clinton is elected. Trump, however, admires Putin who murders journalists and wants to sue reporters for doing their job.
Vale Math,
I think you are naive not to understand how damaging the constant harping that Hillary Clinton is not be trusted is to this election. It has played right into Trump’s hands.
If people hadn’t jumped on the Trump bandwagon to bash Hillary Clinton as untrustworthy, we could have had an honest debate about where she differed from Bernie (and then Trump) on the issues. She was more conservative, her policies were not what Bernie would have offered, they benefitted Wall Street too much, or such. All fine and good and true. And people could have voted for Hillary or Trump on the issues. Or maybe for Hillary because Trump was scary.
But instead, you could not have played more into the right wing’s hands. Because instead of a debate on the issues, the debate is how UNTRUSTWORTHY Hillary is. You have said it over and over again. Hillary is UNTRUSTWORTHY. So instead of debating the issues in this campaign, it’s about one untrustworthy candidate (insider) versus another untrustworthy candidate (outsider).
If that was the vote you wanted, you got it.
Until the American people start to believe that Hillary Clinton IS trustworthy she is not going to win. Trust happens to be one of the most important things that people vote on. Nothing else matters, since if you don’t trust the candidate, who cares whether they are offering policies you like or don’t like.
If both candidates are equally untrustworthy, why not vote for the outsider? Or a third party candidate?
The weirdest thing is that your description of Hillary above is of a candidate you can trust to do the right thing as President. Too bad the constant shouting about how untrustworthy she is has trumped all.
“Jessica Visconte, a senior at SUNY New Paltz, said she hadn’t heard of Ms. Teachout before the rally. She added that many of her fellow students voted for Mr. Sanders in the presidential race, and have now turned their support to the Green Party candidate, Jill Stein. She said she found Mrs. Clinton UNTRUSTWORTHY because of her shifting stance on issues.”
Nothing to see here. Just more millennials who have heard about Hillary Clinton’s “untrustworthiness” from so many people that they are 100% certain it is true.
Diane says: “The smell of fascism is in the air.”
I don’t think that’s hyperbole AT ALL. In such an environment, education as we know it is gone.
In yesterday’s speech, Trump suggested that the police who caught that bomber couldn’t go in those neighborhoods to get dangerous people for fear of not being “politically correct.” But they DID get the suspect in the bombing, by following the law. What they DIDN’T get was every Muslim in the area, which is what Trump wants.
He equated the police being politically correct with following habeas corpus and the rule of law, the later he has contempt for. My guess is, with a Trump win, having brown skin will indistinct from white people wearing a yellow star in the not-too-distant past.
My only question is whether Trump, or those who follow him, can see how close he is to creating that kind of history again. We are way past the question of what kind of education will be available for our children. BTW, WHOSE children?
If this is not what the second coming of a Hitler looks like, what is???
Did the people who opposed Hitler’s rise keep talking about how corrupt his political opponent was?
Did the people who opposed Hitler’s rise keep talking about how UNTRUSTWORTHY the other candidate was?
All that is needed for a fascist to gain power is people who should know better painting his opponent as corrupt, untrustworthy, a tool of the rich, and someone willing to sell out this country’s interests if the price is right.
Welcome to the USofA.
It’s much easier to say “don’t worry your little head about that” when you just happen to be white. And not one of the groups that Trump will happily make a scapegoat if it turns out he needs one.
Diane says: The smell of fascism is in the air.
Yes, and if Clinton wins then Trump himself and his followers are prepared to claim the election was rigged.
Trump has deployed language to make him a winner in the eyes of his supporters, even if he loses.
Win or lose, he will not let go of his newly found power to demean the press, the electoral process, the rule of law, immigrants, and any group he finds it expedient to demonize or denigrate, including women.
He gets a personal high, and adrenaline high, from inciting violence against Hillary and her supporters. That high is sustained by repeating the same claims over and over again until there is no more audience response.
The Republicans are lining up behind Trump in fear of political retribution. Like Putin, Kim Jong-un, and other dictators, Trump regards the threat of violence as a legitimate political tool.
Trump and Pence brush off Trump’s violence-filled remarks as “merely” adding a little excitement to the campaign.
Trump is hell-bent on testing the limit of free speech and creating distrust of any electoral process in which he is a loser. He hates losers and will not go silently into the night if Hillary wins.
His gross incivility alone should immediately disqualify him in everyone’s eyes. The fact that it doesn’t worries me. Half of us are barbarians at heart.
What does a truly serious and effective anti-fascist curriculum look like? Obviously the PC catechism out of Teaching Tolerance and other orthodox Lefty outfits isn’t doing the trick. Kids are smart enough to see that as brainwashing from the Left. It seems to me that a systematic program of learning about the history of governments is called for. A visceral understanding of life under feudalism. A visceral understanding of the passions behind the French Revolution. A much better appreciation of the ugliness of the Old World regimes that animated Jefferson and Co. to craft a democratic republic. A detailed anatomy of the rise of Hitler and Stalin. A fine-grained understanding of the ramifications of Naziism. No preaching, just the steady accumulation of relevant factual knowledge. Such a heavy, permanent foundation of facts might be the best –perhaps the only –basis for critical thinking about the propaganda from Right and Left.
i am very thankful to those news organization such as the Washington Post, whose investigative journalists have brought information about Trump’s dirty dealings to light. It helps to balance in even a small way the lapdogs who follow him about, waiting for juicy crumbs to drop from his lips. The media has a lot to answer for in making him into a viable candidate.
Agree with all.
Yup that terrorist should be burnt at a stake no trial needed, Like the central park five despicable hang them all. When we find out they are innocent of the rape we can always hang them for being black.
Yes he is frightening, those millennials voting for Libertarian Johnson should think twice about the power of a tyrannical government under Trump. But it is not only Trump it is a large part of Republican party and has been for a while. Lindsay Graham called for the bomber to be treated as an enemy combatant. I haven’t heard Republicans jump on Trump for his disregard of the constitution.
“In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.”
Who else will be an enemy combatant, denied a trail or counsel.
But then the TV has been off most of the day. After Friday’s orgy of Trump. So did any of those guys who read the Constitution on the floor of the House stand up for the sixth amendment.
So as dismayed as I am by Clinton. I’m with Hill over Hitler. If that description is not P.C.
I am hoping we don’t have to find out.
In my opinion, you can’t just be with Hill over Hitler anymore.
You need to do everything in your power to stop the constant meme that Hillary Clinton is “untrustworthy” now. Quit saying you will vote for her DESPITE her untrustworthiness. You can say you disagree with her on many of the issues. You can say you will fight against the issues you disagree with her on with every fiber of your being. You can say that she is a moderate Republican or too willing to go to war.
Just stop saying she is untrustworthy. And start saying that she is.
“Jessica Visconte, a senior at SUNY New Paltz, said she hadn’t heard of Ms. Teachout before the rally. She added that many of her fellow students voted for Mr. Sanders in the presidential race, and have now turned their support to the Green Party candidate, Jill Stein. She said she found Mrs. Clinton untrustworthy because of her shifting stance on issues.”
Too many Jessicas following the lead of her elders who have told her over and over again how untrustworthy Hillary is and played right into Donald Trump’s hands. And if that isn’t stopped immediately, Trump will win. Time is running out.
Hillary Clinton is TRUSTWORTHY. You don’t have to agree with her on the issues to believe that to be true.
Sorry not part of the bargain. But I spoke to 150 people the other day explaining what harm Trump will do to them. Will be speaking to 40 more on Thursday. My leverage economically they have lots to lose.
Can’t rewrite history on policy or on character. Be happy I no longer go through the list. But the alternative to Hillary is unacceptable.
I don’t know why you think you can talk voters into voting for a candidate who they (and you) believe is entirely untrustworthy by saying they might be better off economically, but I assume you know how they think. I have my doubts that Hillary Clinton can win when her so-called supporters have already conceded any belief in her honesty, but more power to you if you are able to convince anyone to change their mind with that kind of endorsement. Good luck. I mean it. I hope you convince someone to change their mind.
I have been voting for the lessor evil for a long time. I don’t have to pretend that it is a good choice . It is economic preservation a very strong and selfish motive. The workers I am talking to have a lot to lose from the the guy who loves “Right to Work for Less ” and the party that wants to repeal “Prevailing Wage ” and end PLA’s . That is the end of the Union Construction Trades and the rest of the Union movement with it.
I am counting they like their Pensions , Cadillac healthcare and solid middle class wages more than they hate the “others” .
There are two choices one is a bad cold the other Ebola. Give me the sniffles any day. I have a cabinet full of antihistamines.
I do not find Hillary to be untrustworthy. I think she can be trusted to represent the interests of corporate America over the interests of the working class. But she will be an amateur in those pursuits as compared to Trump and the Republicans. Add the rest of the deplorable Trump package and I’m with Hill .
Barack Obama can be trusted to represent the interests of corporate America over the working class. Elizabeth Warren is selling out Massachusetts public schools right now – I have yet to see her take a stand against a corporate funded campaign to allow unfettered charter schools in her home state. Imagine how strong a voice she could be but not a word against lifting the cap. Why? Even Bernie couldn’t manage a clear position on charter schools.
I didn’t see where Hillary Clinton promised to be the voice of the working class and then sold them out. Do you know why she won the nomination? Because African-Americans voted for her in huge number. And they still do. One of the few groups who haven’t been fooled into thinking that she is planning to sell them out to corporate interests the first time she has a chance. No doubt you believe African-American voters are simply deluded. But consider the possibility that maybe it is you. Those voters don’t think Hillary is going to be the savior of the working class or solve all race issues. But they KNOW she is not the one dimensional Wall Street shill you keep insisting she is who can’t wait to sell out their interests to the highest bidder. Your belief that people who agree with you about that will vote for Hillary because she is the “lesser” corporate shill is a nice fairy tale. I certainly hope it comes true but I see no evidence of it. Because all they keep hearing is how much people like you despise everything about her.
Carry on bashing Hillary as a tool of corporate interests and thinking you can convince union workers to vote for Hillary. Carry on thinking that your over the top characterization of her as only in it for herself is going to be ignored by the people you tell to vote for her. Have you seen the articles about union workers in Ohio? I wish you were correct that they care so much about their own pensions that they’d support a complete tool of corporate America, but I doubt it very much. No one votes for a liar they don’t trust because you tell them she might save their pension. Why should they believe you?
“Do you know why she won the nomination? Because African-Americans voted for her in huge number. And they still do. One of the few groups who haven’t been fooled into thinking that she is planning to sell them out to corporate interests the first time she has a chance. No doubt you believe African-American voters are simply deluded.”
No I don’t think “they are deluded” nor do I think that they are in possession of supernatural powers that gives them insights that other voters didn’t have. So why is it that they voted in such numbers for a woman who backed policies that clearly were not in the interests of the black community. Perhaps you have read Michelle Alexander’s critique, somehow I doubt it.
https://www.thenation.com/article/hillary-clinton-does-not-deserve-black-peoples-votes/
Been a while but I think she hardly touched on the devastating effects of trade on the black communities like Flint. Or Detroit which were declining even before Clinton came in.
So please explain to me why 85 and 90% of blacks voted for Hillary in almost every state south of the Mason Dixon line , over a candidate who clearly represented their interests more. George Wallace or Lester Maddox might have expected to do as well as Bernie did.
Unfortunately you can not explain numbers like 90% without going someplace that I don’t choose to go. For it is as ugly as anything you see at a Trump rally.
But Hillary isn’t slipping because of me disliking her policies, trustworthiness is all about believing a politician will represent ones interests. I will vote for her because Trump is so much worse, in every regard in he is unacceptable. She is slipping among likely voters because that African American vote is not planning on coming out in the numbers they did for Obama while the youth vote stays home or goes elsewhere.
“Trustworthiness” has nothing to do with whether or not a politician will represent your interests.
“Trustworthiness” has everything to do with whether you can trust a politician to make deliberate, thoughtful decisions based on careful consideration of the situation and outcomes.” Even if you don’t happen to agree with every one of those politicians decisions.
That’s why I won’t bash Elizabeth Warren as “untrustworthy” despite her apparent willingness to support the Wall Street moneyman and expand charter schools in Massachusetts. But no doubt if she ever runs for President the right wing will happily push the meme that shows how untrustworthy Warren is and maybe you will tell everyone we should vote for Warren despite her untrustworthiness and willingness to sell out to corporate interests.
Or maybe you will reject that label for Warren and say “we have a disagreement on some issues. She sometimes does the wrong thing. But she is not a wholly owned subsidiary of corporate interests. So stop making every American voter think that Warren is untrustworthy.”
I am getting old, and I have voted in many elections for many candidates who were my second or third choice. I didn’t agree with a good number of their policies. But I did not characterize those people as “untrustworthy”. I just disagreed with their policies. Just like I disagreed with almost everything Reagan stood for and still understood that had nothing to do with whether he was trustworthy. He won the votes of many people who didn’t support most of his policies because they trusted him. They didn’t trust him to be on the side of unions or the working class. They weren’t stupid. They just trusted him as a decent person.
Rove/Ailes have a clear understanding of what the word “trust” means to most Americans. Americans will vote for the lesser of two evils if they trust that person. And they won’t vote for the lesser of two evils if they don’t. Perhaps if there will come a time when Elizabeth Warren’s untrustworthiness is the most prominent notion that voters have of her, you will begin to understand what the word means. African-American voters are supporting a candidate that they TRUST. Not a candidate who they agree with on every single issue and is best for their economic interests. It is very likely true that some of Bernie’s policies would have been more economically beneficial for them and some voted for him in the primary. But – unlike you — those African-American voters understand that just because a candidate has a more conservative view than you does not mean they are untrustworthy. Those voters understand that having a difference in opinion about policy has nothing to do with trust. It’s too bad the the entitled millennials, led by their elders who should know better, do not understand that. Maybe when it is their favorite candidate who becomes the one voters can’t trust because the right wing’s hit job worked, they will understand.
Untrustworthy means the candidate will sell you out at a moment’s notice. Rove and Ailes know that. Every time they read the millennial’s quoting their favorite slur about her they love it. Because they’ve made the election about trust and you are going to have a very tough battle convincing your acquaintances to vote for the most untrustworthy candidate in history. Even if she happens to have some views they agree with.
NYC public school parent
“Untrustworthy means the candidate will sell you out at a moment’s notice”
Nobody can pin that label on you you have to earn it. Unfortunately the Democrats have earned it since at least 92, some say 76.
However an “UNTRUSTWORTHY democrat is one that will give you Republican policy. Policy that abandons working class Americans and pursues the interests of oligarchs and plutocrats . So given the choice between a real Republican and an untrustworthy Democrat this voter will take his chances on UNTRUSTWORTHY every time.
Stop while your ahead or I’ll have to give my Clinton list that starts before Ricky Ray Rector. Which is why the left finds her UNTRUSTWORTHY and completely different from the narrative on the right.
You’re threatening me with offering facts?
Have at it. Keep on pushing the narrative of the Dems being untrustworthy while the Republicans are not. Use all the facts you want to make sure you convince voters you talk to to make sure they understand that Dems are untrustworthy and the Republicans are the ones they can trust. But they should vote for the Dems anyway.
No doubt your negative attitude is apparent to every voter you think you can sway to vote for Hillary. And if those voters ignore the fact that you want them to vote for the more untrustworthy candidate and vote for her, I will salute you for your good work.
Check in here after the election when all the people who say they know Hillary was the more untrustworthy candidate end up voting for her thanks to you. If you are right, I am happy to say I was wrong. If you believe that your telling them to vote for the more untrustworthy candidate will help Hillary, and you are actually right, more power to you.
And feel very smug because you think you are telling it like it is and Bernie would be cheering you on. Actually no doubt you think Bernie and Elizabeth Warren are just as untrustworthy as the other Dems now, and you can work hard to convince voters of that next time around. Have at it! No doubt you now despise them both as much as you despise Hilllary and will do everything you can to make sure voters understand how despicable they are. Not like the trustworthy Republicans who tell it like it is.
Your absolute right “Dems are untrustworthy Republicans are not” I must have said that somewhere But your right the Republicans can be trusted to screw the working class all the time . That makes them very trustworthy.
Let us start with being on the board of Walmart and never objecting to their labor practices.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/2/7/1481171/-Hillary-Clinton-Berniebros-and-the-Walmart-Demons-in-the-20th-Century
Written by someone who despises Wal Mart and all it stands for and has been fighting it before you were born. By all means dismiss him because you prefer to sit from your chair of knowledge and bash everyone who isn’t exactly as liberal as you want them to be as a complete tool of corporate interests ready to sell us all out. You can’t trust her any farther than you can throw her because she’s just not to be trusted. But hey, vote for her because the other guy is worse.
I can only imagine how you will attack Elizabeth Warren in the next election for her support of the corporate interests who want to lift the charter cap in Massachusetts — just like Wal Mart wants! Make sure you let all the voters know what a corporate sell out Warren is and how you just can’t trust her.
And now Bernie is just as much as a sell out to you. I can’t wait until he runs for reelection and you make sure you tell everyone how untrustworthy Bernie is, too.
Carry on with your untrustworthy meme. So far I know you despise Hillary, Warren and Sanders. Maybe Jill Stein will be your hero and you can make sure that she runs against Elizabeth Warren as a 3rd party candidate because we need to get that “untrustworthy” Warren out of the Senate so people you really trust can replace them. Good luck on your efforts to paint every Democrat as untrustworthy. I’m sure you will have great success with Rove and Ailes and all their billions fighting right along side of you. Your inability to distinguish between people who ONLY have corporate interests at heart and Hillary Clinton is exactly what they were hoping for. There is no difference. She’s not to be trusted one bit. But vote for her anyway. Yep, Rove loves it when you tell voters Clinton can’t be trusted but they should vote for her. He’s laughing at you all the way.
What really frightens me, even though I am not a citizen here, is that your gun laws are very loose – or at least not enforced, very uneven from state to state. There is a lot of populist anger out there that is legitimate (although resorting to violence is very rarely a productive measure except in cases of self defense, war, and utter political revolution).
My fear is that Trump is encouraging violence . . . . and it’s not so difficult or complex at all to make it happen in this vast, disunited, divided country. My fear that is just as big as that is thatTrump has the ability to incite hatred as did Hitler did towards targeted groups in precise propaganda campaigns that exploited people’s vulnerabilities, insecurities, and very legitimate (turned illegitimate) frustrations.
I am not saying that anyone can have their way 100% when it comes to immigration, but blaming targeted groups is not an answer to a much, much bigger problem that has been systemic and metastasizing probably for at least 45 years in the USA.
There is so much work to be done. But I feel growth in so many push-back movements across the country. Everyone should see Oliver Stone’s new film on Edward Snowden.
To Norwegian Filmmaker:
Have you seen a movie “Hell or High water”? “Big Short”? “Sully”?
The most horrible fact is that CORPORATE intentionally BULLIES commoners to loot their rightful money like house with oil in land, like pension in stock market, and damaged insurance from crash…
It is nothing to worry about the legitimate intimacy to be spied on. It is nothing to worry about licence to carry a hand gun or to drive a car.
It MUST BE WORRY about MALICIOUS corporate whose intention in backing up an UNQUALIFIED Presidential candidate is to be their puppet TOOL in order to destroy the famous American DEMOCRACY
= destroy Public Education + destroy union
= to transform all work forces into modern slavery
= to live with minimum wage that CANNOT afford the BASIC LIVING COST like rent, transportation, telecommunication, clothes and food
= to work longer hours and days without decent benefits, healthcare insurance, and pension for old age
What kind of film do you produce? I hope that you care about humanity for all. Back2basic
You’ll please excuse me, but this is what happens when I write after putting in a very long day of filming.
I agree with everything you say. What I meant to write about Snowden is this: Yes, he is probably colluding with other sovereignties to spy on the USA and expose some very powerful Americans for the skanks they really are. Russia might be interfering (via hacking) with the elections here, and it’s wrong, wrong , wrong.
However, I personally and morally have a problem with Snowden. What I have a grave problem with him is that he is not exposing the GOP for what they really are. He should be taking down – or attempting to take down – both parties, because they have both (most members in each party) have abandoned the average American person in exchange for monied interests.
The idea of exposing bad politicians is a noble one. The idea of intentionally exposing only cherry picked ones and leaving the rest of the rotten bunch alone is, well corrupt, and just wrong, wrong, wrong.
Americans deserve better if this is the route Edward Snowden chose to take. There should be NO meddling, I think; but if one is going to meddle, be fair, balanced, and moral about it.
Trump is a horrible person, and I still think Hillary is the one one should vote for in this election becuase she is the slower, less lethal poison to swallow.
Does that make sense?
Trump incites violence.
Agreed.
However I think Snowden is going after the party in power(Executive). Therefore the party that is coming after him and Assange
But you are right he should be an equal opportunity snoop .
The GOP is in power in Congress. Snowden is not going after the party in power. He is going after the Democrats. The fact that Putin happens to be pushing Trump as our next President is merely a coincidence, I’m sure.
Great piece by Yale’s Timothy Snyder in the NY Times today about the fascist thinker who inspires Putin and Trump. They are actively trying to undermine democracy around the world. We’ve allowed our physical infrastructure to rot in this country, but we’ve also allowed our psychic infrastructure to rot too. Decades of bipartisan deprecation of politics is really a daily assault on the concept of democracy. By painting all politicians as contemptible, we set the stage for a switch to fascism. The fact that many of us work in quasi-fascist corporations and like that model also greases the skids for a slide into fascism. We’ve neglected the hard work of maintaining the mental pillars of support for democracy. If we survive this election, that’s the work we need to begin.
And one more thing:
Trump will help actualize all the terrible things you mentioned in your note. He must be defeated.
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/09/law-professor-trump-can-be-impeached-for-fraud-and-racketeering-before-he-even-takes-office/
You forgot to put “trustworthy” in all caps.