Jim Horn has a website called “Schools Matter.” He opposes corporate reform, as I do.
I have never met him. I hear he doesn’t like me. I don’t know why. I thought we were fighting for the same goals.
The first time I became aware of his hostility was when he posted a photograph of me with the caption, “Nice face job, Diane.” Very puzzling as I have never had a facelift. Sexist too. I ignored him.
When Anthony Cody and I decided to create the Network for Public Education, aiming to build alliances among the many individuals and groups fighting against corporate reform, we selected a board and announced our existence. Horn emailed to say that he was going to attack us because we included a much admired NBCT African American teacher from Mississippi. Horn discovered that she had written an article praising merit pay. Many emails went back and forth among him, Anthony, and me. He decided not to poison us at our birth.
But he has an intense and personal animus towards me. Again, I can’t explain it. I don’t know why.
I thought I would share with you his latest blast, which was (I assume) a response to my post about how progressive movements die when they turn on one another. In the post, I urged us all to work together towards our shared agenda. Apparently he is angry that I supported ESSA; I supported it because it eliminated NCLB (No Child Left Behind), AYP (Adequate Yearly Progress), and VAM (value-added modeling or test-based teacher evaluations). If ESSA had not passed, NCLB would still be federal law, and John King would have the authoritarian power that Arne Duncan had over the nation’s schools. If I were writing the law, I would have eliminated all federal mandates for accountability and testing, but I was not writing the law.
Despite what he writes, we are on the same side of the issues. Like him, I oppose standardized testing, other than for sampling purposes. I oppose evaluation of teachers by test scores. I oppose segregation. I support equitable and ample funding of schools. I support teacher professionalism and collective bargaining. I support public education and oppose privatization. Yet he says I am his enemy. He wants us to fail.
This is what Jim Horn wrote yesterday:
Today’s Communique to the Ravitch Forces
After what seems to me to have been a pretty effective skirmish, the Ravitch forces have climbed out of their tent at their permanent Basecamp, stomping the ground and waving their, um, whatevers. For those Ravitch acolytes who are not too drunk on revenge to read, here’s something to ponder, as I am working on a next book today and don’t have time to attend to your whining.
In everything I have seen from D. Ravitch and the band of intellectual eunuchs who comprise the NPE echo chamber, a theme stands out, which is that we cannot afford to fight among ourselves, that allies cannot be ripped asunder, that we must stick together in the same tent, blah blah. So let me speak to Diane directly here, and I hope that all of her disciples will read this carefully.
The problem is, Diane, our goals are not the same. My goals are ending testing accountability in all forms, ending segregated classrooms in all forms, and ending corporate education reform in all forms. I can’t work toward those goals with any effect while misleaders like you and the union suits are cutting deals on ESSA to guarantee another generation of testing accountability, segregated classrooms, and corporate control. Have you read the history of NCLB?
We are on different sides of these issues, regardless of how much braying and foot stomping you are able to stir up. We are not allies. I am your enemy. Get used to it.
I really don’t understand the attacks from Mr. Horn, nor what seems like an amazing amount of personal animus against a person who shares so many of his beliefs. It reminds me of the Hillary v. Bernie battles, which many times seemed more anger-fueled and nasty than any Progressive attacks on Mr. Trump.
In any event, I think we learn a lot by not just what folks say, but by the way that they say it. Mr. Horn’s use of personal attacks, insults, and smears stands in stark contrast to Dr. Ravitch’s clear, unemotional, and depersonalized words.
It would be lovely if all public education advocates could work together in our efforts to push back against the corporate reform movement, but you can’t force people who are itching for a fight–any fight, it so seems–to be your ally.
Mr. Horn gets to decide how he wants to behave and move forward. I know who I stand with.
I’m with her.
🙂
I don’t know Mr. Horn, and I won’t assume to speak for him. I know I get frustrated when our unions cozy up to those who mean harm to public education. I am more of the militant, take-no-prisoners mindset that results from years of being demeaned, job protections whittled away, and pay cuts. I am thankful that there are more even tempered folks fighting our battles, like Dr. Ravitch, because we are making inroads. Is it happening fast enough? Hell no. I see another generation of bright students having their creativity and spunk crushed by these meaningless tests.
As for Mr. Horn, I had never heard of him until five minutes ago. If his only notoriety is attacking the leader of the anti-reform movement, he needs to rethink his purpose.
Yes. The strategy of vicious name-calling and snotty condescension is too MUCH a tactic of the reformers.
It’s almost like it could be a false flag scenario.
Diane is making too many inroads through the force of her personality, experience and dedication so an attempt is being made to attack her cause by attacking her.
If someone is seen to hate her then maybe people with think there is a reason to hate her – the whole “no smoke without fires” routine.
The things I miss when work gets really, really busy.
I understand what motivates people who value purism, but at the end of the day, it is very destructive. We should all be open to constructive criticism and value reflection enough to question ourselves. Mindless attacking because an ally does not go as far as you want them to do is how we end up splintering efforts and watching Peter Cunningham laugh all the way to the grave of public education.
absolutely. Mr. Cunningham has millions of dollars in billionaire funding, a large stable of paid bloggers and social media surfers at his beckon call, and is committed to playing the “long game.”
splintering our support makes no sense. I hope Mr. Horn isn’t ginning up this drama for either personal gain, or because his feelings are hurt that he’s not the face of our movement. that’s not how teachers work.
He is an example of what it means to put yourself above all and not understand the art of communication. He is a bully who rants with the freedom the internet gives him and must be treated as such. In my old Bronx neighborhood we would call him a guy who “thinks his shit don’t stink”. We always knew how to deal with bullies.
He has not just attacked Diane and Anthony. I must add that Horn has gone out of his way to insult, demean, curse, spread innuendo, and allege all sorts of wrong doing by good, hardworking teachers, parents and grassroots folks far more successful in actively fighting for public schools than he. He has taken and used “Trumpian” tactics to the nth degree and has earned the well deserved distain of many.
Obviously there is a great deal of room for many of us under the Public Education tent as long as we continue to listen and share ideas and come to the best conclusions. There are lots of dissenters who can still carry on intelligent conversations and find a way to agreeable solutions. Dissent is good. We can never become complacent. We need to hear opinions different from ours.
But he crosses too many lines of civility. Because he believes in “my way or the highway,” he intends to burn the tent.
Horn seems like a guy with a persecution complex, and the internet gives him the chance to blame and castigate. He’s a socialist that thrives on alarming conspiracy theories. If you can disregard some of his nasty comments, he often presents some very interesting information and perspectives. The personal attacks, however, make him look small minded.
retired teacher: pardon the quibbling, but when you wrote “persecution complex” did you mean to write—
“prosecution complex”?
Autocorrect can do the darnedest things…
😎
Good point!
If Mr. Horn needs to resort to a snide comment about a non-existent face lift (not that it would be any more relevant if there had been one) in order to respond to Diane’s position on public education, she must stating her points pretty effectively! Typical school bully behavior.
Odd behavior. I do not always agree here, but I would encourage Horn to come here and join the discussion.
I wouldn’t. He doesn’t fight “fair.”
I think Horn’s 15 minutes are almost over. Before he started attacking dedicated activists, I frankly had no idea who he was. Now I know not to care. He isn’t worth our time. Yawn.
Horn appears to be stumping for the perfect rather than the good. He sounds to me like the Scott Walker of the left and, while I too think it wonderful if we could “end all corporate reform in all its forms” today, that desire is not going to be realized anytime soon. It may not happen anytime without a fight unless the Gates and the other billionaires suddenly embrace the gods of democracy, take vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience and then flog their backsides with 100 dollar bills.
Another alternative suggests that Mr. Horn is jealous and wants your popularity, a version of middle school envy. I hope he recovers soon? JVK
“. . . unless the Gates and the other billionaires suddenly embrace the gods of democracy, take vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience and then flog their backsides with 100 dollar bills.”
I like your attitude!
I have no idea what he stands for but his misogyny and bullying identify him as an enemy.
shame on you, mr horn.
Here is the answer to how this man, obviously intelligent can come to the conclusion that he does. The Difference Between Rationality and Intelligence – The New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/18/opinion/sunday/the-difference-between-rationality-and-intelligence.html
Great citation. Thanks
You are welcome. I thought it was so interesting too, and it explains how so many brilliant people I know bought the big CON of the GOP tea-party extremists.
Right now, in America, we are witnessing the model and the metaphor for the narcissist who listens only to his own voice– tRump.
Right Now, in America, the incivility that IS SPAWNED BY THE ANARCHY OF THE INTERNET SOCIAL MEDIA has reached a level where anything goes… and the news media REPEATS lies ENDLESSLY , and calls it BALANCE, when it is FALSE EQUIVILENCEY http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/18/opinion/both-sides-now.html
Diane, This man is a product of the times.– just another egotist with a blog who is probably motivated by the same inner sense of INADEQUACY that motivates Trump.
I met children like this when I taught. They needed to be more that just first… they needed EVERYONE ELSE TO BE LAST.
YOU cannot be replaced, and while one can disagree CIVILY with the reasons that you supported ESSA, one has to trust your intentions and motives. YOU are trustworthy, and have proven it. You do no shave to be super-human, and never err.
Do not let this ‘little man’ make himself ‘bigger’ through talking ‘tough’ and bashing whatever his ‘little’ mind cannot grasp .
No hormone can improve his stature, and no amount of rhetoric can improve his status as NOBODY, and he only images himself by impugning your motives.
My departed mother had a phrase for the type. She said they want to be “the bride at every wedding and the corpse at every funeral”
great line! wise mother.
TAGO!
That almost the title of a book 🙂
https://www.amazon.com/Bride-Every-Funeral-Corpse-Wedding-ebook/dp/B00AKEXEAE?tag=duckduckgo-d-20
LOL! Love it.
At least 50 years ago, I read that about Teddy Roosevelt and it was quoted from his daughter.
He’s probably voting for Jill Stein, too. Hope it makes him feel better when the Trump Shirts haul him off to the labor camp.
Horse manure.
That line Horn wrote, “…waving their, um, whatevers,” I’ve heard it before. It was some Republican candidate talking about a debate moderator. He said, “…with blood coming out of her, um, whatever…” It was considered a thinly veiled, vulgar reference to the feminine body. It was said by someone with a small mind and similarly small hands. Hmm. Horn must have meant we were waving our, um, eyes.
By the way, I understand what it’s like to watch someone who’s supposed to be on our side, like Senator Booker, take the side of the Billionaire Boys, but as strange as it was for me to literally cheer Senator Lamar Alexander on C-SPAN, if not for the ESSA, Arne Duncan/John King would be free to punish states for not Racing to the TPP. That was an important step in the right direction. But, um, whatever.
LCT, Never make the mistake of thinking Cory Booker sides with ordinary people. He sides with billionaires. Read Dale Russakoff’s The Prize.
Oh, definitely, Diane. I just meant that he is a DINO, Dem In Name Only.
ESSA has a whole lot of poison hidden in it, not the least of which is the way it Balkanized the national fight against reform into a separate fight in each of the 50 states. The way it lays the groundwork for CBE is also toxic. I’d have preferred that it had not passed since we were making progress against the components of NCLB and those pushing them. Finally, the removal of federal influence over policy was illusory, that influence still exists, all that’s changed is the way it manifests itself.
Jon,
Not sure I agree. Our efforts to convince the Obama administration and Congress to back off test-punish were ignored. We have a chance to persuade our local officials because they have to meet with constituents. We had no chance to change anything as long as NCLB was the law. No one listened.
Yes, spot on. “Whatevers” is an attempt at crass misogyny. How can anybody think they’re an effective advocate for children when they indulge in the lowest forms of discordant stereotyping?
I wrote a few comments to this post when it first appeared that got lost; I subsequently decided not to get embroiled in this debate.
But I’m stupid in so many ways. So I have to ask: Just how is “whatevers” misogynistic, particularly given that the verb attached is “waving,” and the readership here is certainly not just comprised of women? The following paragraph makes reference to the followers of this blog as “eunuchs”: I’m not all that well-read, but I didn’t know that term refers to women. If I’m correct, then is the assumption that Horn switched his focus from women readers to men without any warning? Or could it be that what he imagined readers waving was something peculiar to males?
No problem! Change the accusation from “misogynistic” to “chauvinistic” or “sexist” and you’re good to go (though you may have to drop the references to that silly Trump comment about blood spurting back during the GOP debates)! Obviously, Horn is suggesting that women are too stupid to read!
While we’re on a roll reading minds, we certainly don’t want to take Isabella Keegan’s comment seriously: “I have been reading Horn’s “Schools Matter” blog for a long time and I have learned a lot from doing so. Rather than vilify this intelligent man for his feelings toward Diane Ravitch, I suggest that you actually his incisive arguments. You may not agree with everything he writes but you WILL get your eyes and minds opened to a different stance toward the topics that interest all of us.”
What is that? Actually reading someone’s blog before deciding that his motives are jealousy, misogyny, ad nauseam? That’s crazy talk!
Interesting exchange from 2013: https://dianeravitch.net/2013/10/03/jim-horn-reviews-reign-of-error-3/
He seemed to like Diane in 2013 and liked her book, Reign of Errors, which he praised. In 2016, he’s become very nasty. Go figure.
Small minded, small everything but a big ego… some personal need propels him to take out those who are BIGGER than he is.
Whoops, should be Reign of Error.
ALLism is no basis for nothing. No principle is unrestricted. Freedom of opinion implies a ban on everyone who wants to eliminate it. This is not only a matter of tolerance but of moral insight. Diversity of opinion is an essential moral principle of democracy because respect for freedom of speech and thought prevents us from collective suicide through unquestioned policies. Dictatorships, which regard anyone with a different point of view as an enemy, have no long life because they do now allow the corrective of free public opinion. In contrast, in a true democracy, people with a different opinion are esteemed, not seen as “enemies.” We should fight wrong opinions but not the people who have them.
Georg Lind
Georg, elegantly said
Georg,
“Freedom of opinion implies a ban on everyone who wants to eliminate it. This is not only a matter of tolerance but of moral insight.”
For an interesting and very insightful discussion of the topic of tolerance/intolerance see Ch 13 of Comte-Sponville’s “A Small Treatise on the Great Virtues”.
From the opening paragraph:
“‘Is it necessarily a sign of tolerance to think that certain things are intolerable?’ Or else, in a different version: ‘Does being tolerant mean tolerating everything?’ The answer to both questions, of course, is no, at least if we want tolerance to be a virtue [a human “good”]. Must we deem virtuous someone who tolerates rape, torture, or murder [or seriously harming children’s mind/soul through educational malpractices]? Who could find virtue in a disposition to tolerate the worse?. . . [and my favorite definition of philosophy] To philosophize is to think without the benefit of proof (if proofs exist, it is no longer philosophy), which is not to say that any thought and all ways of thinking are, philosophically speaking, equally valid. Indeed, to think carelessly or sloppily is not to think at all. In philosophy, reason commands, as it does in the sciences, but without recourse to confirmation or refutation. But then why bother to venture beyond the sciences, where proof is possible? Because we must: the sciences provide no answers to any of the fundamental questions we ask ourselves, not even those they [the sciences] force us to ask. A philosophy is a set of reasonable opinions–something more difficult, and more necessary, to achieve than one might think.” [my additions]
Diane, didn’t you write the history of NCLB? Let alone read it?
Lordy, why are we using up any energy on this guy? He’s just trying to build some web presence for the release of a book. Remember that NYtimes arrive, “A Bully Finds a Pulpit on the Web”? http://mobile.nytimes.com/2010/11/28/business/28borker.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc=rss&pagewanted=all&referer= ? A hostile sunglasses retailer used complaints about his website as a marketing strategy to boost his Google search results. “I never had the amount of traffic I have now since my 1st complaint. My goal is NEGATIVE advertisement.”
Karen Wolfe: excellent point.
😎
Are we sure this guy isn’t some kind of straw-man troll?
Diane, didn’t you write the history of NCLB? Let alone read it?
Lordy, why are we using up any energy on this guy? He’s just trying to build some web presence for the release of a book. Remember that NYtimes arrive, “A Bully Finds a Pulpit on the Web”?
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2010/11/28/business/28borker.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc=rss&pagewanted=all&referer= A hostile sunglasses retailer used complaints about his website as a marketing strategy to boost his Google search results. “I never had the amount of traffic I have now since my 1st complaint. My goal is NEGATIVE advertisement.”
Karen,
I wrote the history of NCLB as a chapter in Death and Life of the Great American School System
I agree with most of what is written in this thread (14 comments when I wrote this) but, if I may, I would highlight this from the first to comment:
“It would be lovely if all public education advocates could work together in our efforts to push back against the corporate reform movement, but you can’t force people who are itching for a fight–any fight, it so seems–to be your ally.” [mrobsmsu]
As I see it…
Agree and work together where we can, disagree and go our separate ways where we must, but do not let the contempt culture that is on full display in the presidential campaign and ongoing rheephorm projects divide us unnecessarily. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: whatever happens this November, the fight for a “better education for all” is truly the “never-ending story.” So is it difficult to work today with someone with whom you had very sharp disagreements the day before? Welcome to reality.
IMHO, we should reject Mr. Horn’s attempt to force us into responding with the same sort of belittling contempt that he has imbibed so deeply from those furiously in pursuit of $tudent $ucce$$ at the expense of OTHER PEOPLE’S CHILDREN whilst providing genuine learning/teaching environments for THEIR OWN CHILDREN.
Formerly many of us who contribute to this blog were called “Ravitchbots.” Now we’re “acolytes” and “intellectual eunuchs.” Yawn… And such comes from all sorts of ideological directions and colorations and protestations. But it’s the same rancid wine in slightly different bottles. Don’t imbibe any of it—if you value your health.
😏
I have disagreed, disagree, and am sure will disagree in the future, on some important issues with the owner of this blog. But in the Real World, not the Rheeal World, it is both useful and practical to remember what mrobsmsu wrote above.
Want respect? Want to be heard? Give respect. Listen with respect. But don’t be surprised when you do the opposite and get exactly the results you don’t want.
That’s how I see it…
😎
Well said, KTA, thanks!
Apparently Horn doesn’t under and how government in the USA works, how important the word compromise means. His chauvinism is self defeating. I never heard of him before this.
After that comment calling you “an enemy” I can’t help but wonder exactly what this man’s true agenda is. Any slight credibility he might have had with me is now gone.
test? comments not posting
Diane, did you get my submission?
No, Ed, I did not.
I posted three or four comments today (one was a rewrite) and none have thus far appeared.
MPG,
Me too.
Me too…and it was not a long comment. Also on the California charter school post…did not show up..
Ellen, your comment was in moderation.
Comments with links are usually put in moderation automatically
For whatever reason, I can’t post a longer response on this page.
Ed Detective,
Did you write in the comment box or write your comment in a Word document and then copy and paste? I’ve had problems like you described when I write a long comment in a comment box. I think when we do that we get timed out.
“Did you write in the comment box or write your comment in a Word document and then copy and paste?”
I tried both. Neither worked. Never had a problem before today.
Ed,
When the comment thread gets too long, the margins get very narrow.
Why don’t you send whatever you wrote to me, and I will post it for you in the thread: dr19@nyu.edu
I thought they had fixed the narrow column problem, but it reappeared all of a sudden recently.
There are some professors that, once they get their position, they believe what they say is gospel and everyone should agree with them. Horn is a professor at Cambridge and the picture posted of him just reeks of self-importance. He boasts of 20 years in public education and 15 in higher ed. And he is nasty to ALL those who he deems is not following him.
The less time and space we give him, the better.
My dear Cheryl, what you point our is very true.
I have encountered many academics in ‘higher ed, who look down on ‘lower’ ed teachers,, and treat them in a ‘lowly’ manner, as if they have nothing to add to the conversation. Dr. Denise Levine is a bully that I encountered; she intact touted and used my work to show how her leadership enabled teachers… until she decided to defame me, and document my incopetence, even as I was the NY S Educator of Exellence that year.
Yes, Cheryl, I am a mere teacher, who chose to practice ‘lower’ education, but took only a Masters Degree… well … and 60 grad credits beyond the MA, studying education practice, art, writing, literacy and psychology!
BUT I do not have a Ph’d, and did not publish… well…, beyond decades of writing the curricula for everything I taught, using only a guide manual of state and city learning objectives.
And it is true, that In the end, a publisher wanted my curricula, and Harvard studied it, and NYC became prominent in the Pew research because MY practice was studied as the cohort… but my name appears no where. ( well … except on the materials that the LRDC sent around the nation with the Performance Standards.)
In the end, I am who I am, and what I do, I do well, so I cannot be overlooked IF I persist! Some academics grudgingly accept me into their neighborhood.
At this blog, where no one knew me, except of course Diane, the academics knew my voice early, and I never had a problem.
I just wouldNOT KEEP QUIET about wha tI HAD WITNESSED in the last decade of the 20th century. I had gone to school in the forties and fifties, saw my kids attend in the seventies and eighties, and I taught for the better part of the century.
Ph’d or not, I knew when “TOP-DOWN replaced BOTTOM UP”! This is how the publisher at Oped NEWS , Rob Kall, describes the changes in the macrocosm of our culture.
He is writing a book on that subject, and he admits that I have shown him how that is reflected in the microcosm that is the bureaucracies of the ‘school systems.’ He plans to include this in his book.
Yes, my voice as an educator gained TRACTION because my SERIES at Oped News had tens of thousands of views. http://www.opednews.com/Series/15-880-Districts-in-50-Sta-by-Susan-Lee-Schwartz-140921-34.html
I recall when my stature and standing changed, and I knew I was BACK as an educator to be taken seriously, when Dr. Joel Shatzky asked me to review his book.*
* “Option Three”, by Dr. Shatzky is very RELEVANT to what is happening now. He was PRECIENT (and funny, too).
http://hnn.us/article/152362 It is a satire that ‘nails’ the PLIGHT of the educators in
UPPER Ed’ ( professors) encountered the reformers, and found themselves demoted to adjuncts; a process to reduce benefits that had already been the ploy used in ‘LOWER’ Ed where practitioners were turned out of their classrooms and made into Subs with no benefits and no bargaining rights.
Gee how did I get started on this.
LOL!
I used to follow Schools Matter, Horn’s blog. It was very good, pro public schools, pro teacher and anti charter schools and school privatization. Then I lost track of his blog and glommed onto Jersey Jazzman, Diane’s Blog and Bob Braun’s blog. Diane’s blog is far and away the most active and dynamic blog on education. There are multiple new entries every day, an incredible amount of output on educational and political issues. It’s sad that Horn has resorted to name calling since he is on the same side of the education wars as the rest of us.
Up until now I’d never thought of Donald Trump as a Teacher, but judging from the substance, timing and tone of Mr. Horn’s words, I’d say he’s an excellent pupil of the Trump School of Tantrumology.
Diane keep doing what you’re doing. So many educators look to you for leadership, including myself. Don’t sweat that guy.
Diane,
You provide leadership, knowledge, hope, and strength to hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of parents and teachers fighting against the destruction of public education.
You have shaken up and beaten up the corporate education reformers and the hedge fund bullies.
I don’t know who Mr. Horn is and I really don’t care. Just brush him off as you would any other insignificant annoyance.
I have been reading Horn’s “Schools Matter” blog for a long time and I have learned a lot from doing so. Rather than vilify this intelligent man for his feelings toward Diane Ravitch, I suggest that you actually his incisive arguments. You may not agree with everything he writes but you WILL get your eyes and minds opened to a different stance toward the topics that interest all of us.
I agree with you, Isabella….up to a point. I, too, have been reading his site for several years and have found a lot of his information very helpful. Most times his arguments about the privatization movement make sense, but it’s his attitude, name calling, and offensive bullying that makes him difficult to take.
He, obviously, doesn’t respect anyone who dares to differ with him. He’s rude. He’s obnoxious. He assumes that everyone who doesn’t see things exactly his way is “the enemy.”
If he handled disagreement like an adult my opinion of him would be different.
There is a very smart teacher in California, who writes a blog, and has aver similar belligerence to anyone who cannot see things his way, because, you see, hIS vision is to CRYSTAL CLEAR , that anyone who cannot agree to see it too, is blind and beneath contempt. He and I are on the same page, and I am an ally whom he calls and relies on, but I have huge up on him numerous times, as I do when any egotist gets ‘disrespectful.”
It is DISSING that I will not tolerate, and neither should Diane.
She is right to be astonished and annoyed.
But as everyone here advises… and as we say in NYC “fawged’da’bowd’it.
and I hate the spell checker here. that turns Hung up, into ‘huge,’
What a shame that a man who apparently has a viewpoint worth exploring spends his time trying to tear down those who should be his natural allies.
Horns other problem is that he has little if any understanding of strategy and tactics in the political realm. His absolutism, while having a sound basis in policy, in what authentic education actually is, is nevertheless a liability when it comes to putting sound policy into place. His obviously false accusations and characterizations also do not help his cause. When your activism contains so much that is counterproductive, whatever truth you may tell becomes suspect and mostly lost from sight as a result.
This what JH wrote in 2013 on this blog:
October 4, 2013 at 9:22 am
The faithful will always find evidence that their view of the deity is the correct one, although in this case, the scripture chosen introduces more questions than it answers when the non-preferred past is examined (I think Santayana had something say about those who don’t recall the past).
I applaud Ravitch for moral and intellectual courage, rather than her consistency; if she had remained consistent, we would not be enjoying the mind-blowing work that resulted from her conversion but, rather, we would be continuing to suffer the lash from the cruel Pharisee, Saul of Tarsus. I’ll prefer the brilliant Paul the Apostle any day.
Isabella,
I don’t know where Jim Horn and I disagree. Please let me know.
His disagreement with you is based on fallacious notions of what you support and what you do not, arrived at via a process of cherry picking, conflation and other errors of analysis. Putting aside whatever the personality malfunction of his may be that lead to this, they also stem from his abject lack of understanding of and/or refusal to accept the kinds of strategy and tactics that are intrinsic to politics, and a similar failure to understand/accept the limited persuasive capacity of facts and evidence upon large numbers of diverse people with a very limited capacity to network effectively. He seems to think he has a magic wand that can solve this, but what that might be I have not seen.
Purists like Horn will never win the Revolution. Pragmatists, not ideologues, can win one battle at a time, often compromising along the way. It’s taken 15 years to slowly chip away at the edges until finally, with ESSA, we’re almost there. Hopefully, it will be the last iteration of NCLB. Some people never learned how to get along with others. Ignore them. Keep up the good fight. It’s still a journey. The destination? We’re almost there. Thank you for all you do.
Oh, no! i did not mean to suggest that ESSA was the destination! I believe that the final iteration of NCLB will fade away with a whimper. I once so hoped for a big bang of an explosion but that’s not going to happen. So let’s stick together and keep chipping away.
I’ve been reading Dr. Horn’s blog for a while…several others blog in the same place – notably Stephen Krashen – and I have used their information more than a few times. I have noticed the change in Horn’s attitude towards Diane over the years. I think what started it was his animosity towards the teachers unions…and their virtually no-strings-attached acceptance of President Obama despite his administration’s record on public education.
He has written nasty things about Anthony Cody before…and Jonathan Pelto (the organizer of Edubloggers)…as well as Diane and all of us “acolytes” and “intellectual eunichs.” It seems to me…and this is just speculation…that he is so stuck on his own position that anyone who doesn’t agree 100% is “the enemy.” It’s his “my way or the highway” attitude that seems to come through in his writing.
Finally, and, again, this is only my hunch, I think it really burns his biscuits that Diane has a bigger following than he does even though she isn’t his lackey…and the fact that she actually talks to people like Randy Weingarten and Lily Eskelsen Garcia. Professional and personal jealousy anyone?
Stu,
I don’t see eye to eye with the unions. They support Common Core; I don’t. The AFT supported annual testing in ESSA; I didn’t. I won’t get on board with those who attack the unions. Without them, public education and teachers would have no powerful advocates.
Understood, Diane. I remember your Q & A with the two presidents at the Chicago NPE conference. I don’t think that Dr. Horn understands that politeness – even respect – does not necessarily mean agreement.
I don’t agree with them all the time either. I wrote frequent letters to the leadership after NEA decided to endorse President Obama in 2012 without even talking to him about his damaging policy of RttT. I continued writing after NEA endorsed Secretary Clinton in the primaries without getting any understanding from her about the damages done by privatization. I’ll keep doing that, too, since I purchased a life membership in NEA when I retired…so I might as well keep it up.
Dr. Horn is not worth worrying about, btw – not worth responding to. I agree with much of what he has written in the past about privatization, but I think his voice is tainted by his callous use of name-calling and cruelty. His kind of verbal poison is something I don’t want anything to do with.
We need unions!
Laborers, workers in this nation are being reduced to serfdom without them.
But, every teacher who lost their careers to fabricated charges, and there are tens thousands of them, knows exactly what needs to change. Ask Francesco Portelos ( reduced to an ATR position, a man who ran for the NYC UFT presidency and lost). Google him!
There is a big difference between those who attack the unions (in order to lay blame for the school failure on those incompetent, ‘bad tenured teachers’ that unions supposedly support)– and those teachers who KNOW where the unions failed, and how we were victimized by the entrenched bureaucracy in the unions who were complicit. Randi herself knows my whole story and what I KNOW!
The teacher unions in many states have looked the other way instead of fulfilling their obligations to support the grievance process and the laws. They have allowed wonderful, dedicated teachers to be hounded out, and other excellent educators to be sent out as substitute teachers.
As for me… I wrote this in 2004.http://www.perdaily.com/2011/01/lausd-et-al-a-national-scandal-of-enormous-proportions-by-susan-lee-schwartz-part-1.html
It happened to me and hundreds of other teachers whom I knew. So yes… we need unions, but we need a new, fresh leadership which will stand up for our civil rights, and represent us, because it is too expensive to sue. Ask Lorna Stremcha.
Why did she have to sue in order to get justice when the PRINCIPAL SET HER UP TO BE ASSAULTED IN HER CLASSROOM, AFTER A A LL HIS HARASSMENT FAILED
There is a big difference between this who attack the unions in order to lay blame for those ‘bad tenured teachers’ that unions supposedly support– and those who were victimized by the entrenched bureaucracy in the unions; the teacher unions in many states have looked the other way instead of fulfilling their obligations to support the grievance process and the laws. They have allowed wonderful, dedicated teachers to be hounded out, and other excellent educators to be sent out as substitute teachers,
http://www.opednews.com/Quicklink/LAUSD-OR-TARGETED-TEACHERS-in-Best_Web_OpEds-Deception_Evidence_Fired_Innocence-150720-360.html#comment555646
As for me… I wrote this in 2004.http://www.perdaily.com/2011/01/lausd-et-al-a-national-scandal-of-enormous-proportions-by-susan-lee-schwartz-part-1.html
It happened to me and hundreds of other teachers whom I knew. So yes… we need unions, but we need a new, fresh leadership which will stand up for our civil rights, and represent us, because it is too expensive to sue. Ask Lorna Stremcha.
Why did she have to sue in order to get justice when the PRINCIPAL SET HER UP TO BE ASSAULTED IN HER CLASSROOM, AFTER A HIS HARASSMENT FAILED.
Her story and mine is the story of union failure and I hear it NO WHERE! It is the crux of the war on teachers. It is the BEGINNING of it all, and where we are now, is the result of silencing the voice of the teacher!
I agree we need unions.
I agree with you on everything you stand for!
but, my dear, until the truth is known, and things change, teachers will be so much fodder for the top management to burn at will.
Lorna’s story is a must read
http://www.greatfallstribune.com/story/life/my-montana/2016/03/18/educator-recounts-harassment-school/81896206/.
as is her book “Bravery, Bullies and Blowhards”
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/background-information-bravery-bullies-blowhards-lorna-stremcha
Sorry that some sentences got repeated. It is a shame that one cannot go back and edit a post piece.
not posting
Democracy, are you having trouble posting comments?
yes, longer comments will not post.
Sometimes longer comments come through, sometimes not
I searched in spam and no comments were there from readers, just commercial junk
Susan: In NJ we say, fuhgeddaboudit.
He does not understand the concept of “don’t let perfect be the enemy of good”. If we work together, we can achieve the removal of all the aforementioned ills. But we can’t have them all gone yesterday.
A disagreement like this one does call a question? What would we do if corporate reform went away? If testing went away? If control by incompetent and distant authorities went away and we were left with plenty of money and local control? What would we all do?
This website has entertained such discussions. It must be worth something. And even Paul,took,time to teach the Ethopian eunuch.
Good question, Roy. If it went away, I would have time to write my memoirs.
Well, we do need you to do that!
I’m sorry to say it seems like Horn’s issue is personal.
What would we do if all this top-down fraudulent and inferior education reform went away?
A good place to start would be to do what my first principal did back in the mid 1970s. His name was Ralph Pagan and he believed in bottom-up control/management. He organized teachers into teams, reached out to parents and students and we all cooperated on almost every element of the educational environment at that middle school. He even reached out to the street gang leaders to gain their support. He visited their homes, sat down to dinner with them and made connections.
It worked too. Pagan took that dangerous intermediate school with the worst reputation in Southern California’s San Gabriel Valley and dramatically turned it around because all the stakeholders who cared were in charge and Ralph supported us.
Lloyd: I too had two very positive experiences with bottom up reform. Both worked. Neither was perfect. Both were better than any top down solutions I have experienced.
Diane, as someone who is a member of the “Horn’s attack club”, I can only offer you a humble suggestion, something that friends have advised me, some that have been on the receiving end of his scorn, “ignore the man, he is just doing what he does best, while in the comfort of his laptop, he attacks the motives and integrity of everyone with whom he disagrees.” Mind you, we are all humans who will have missteps and make mistakes, unless you suffer from “Trumpism” the narcissist diagnosis condition, a condition that allows the sufferer to rant attacks whether true or false. Remember, how Trump went on record ranting about how he saw thousands of Muslims in New Jersey celebrating after 9-11? or his attacks on Obama’s birth place? When confronted with the lies, it didn’t faced him, he just went on to the next victim.
Thanks, Ruth. I am trying to understand but lack the information that makes understanding possible.
I posted a little after 12:00 N and my post did not appear either. Could be full moon? 😀
Same thing happened to KrazyTA.
WordPress drops people off the blog. Drops comments. I wish I knew how to make it better. I complain and no one listens. It is like talking to a machine and getting another machine to respond.
“I complain and no one listens. It is like talking to a machine and getting another machine to respond.”
The solution is to have the blog hosted at the university–even at your department. They could use the same WordPress blog software, or something less whimsical, more stable, and they would be more responsive to your complaints. For example, you could talk to a live person in case of problems.
Mate, you are right but I don’t have tenure at NYU (untenured since 1995), and no sense of permanency.
There’s a whole lot of talk on this topic but in the final analysis DR and other ‘leaders’ won’t allow criticism of the NEA and the AFT. These are no longer unions that protect teachers and public education but lapdogs for the privatizers. How can we fight privatization while teachers are attacked and fired with the collaboration of the national associations? Easy answer; teachers are not relevant to the future of public education. 5,000 in L.A. and the leaders of the so-called union ban people who dare to have differences of opinion.
Not sure if you notices, Michael, but Diane criticized some positions of the teachers unions in these comments.
Dr. Horn claims that she doesn’t criticize the unions…that others like the EduBloggers and NPE are complicit with the unions, and don’t allow anyone to disagree. According to him we’re just toadies who toe the corporate line, but that’s just not true.
I’m not from LA and can’t speak to your comments about the union there, I have always been able to speak freely as a member of my local, state, and national. As a blogger, and a member of EduBloggers, I have frequently criticized NEA and the union leaders.
The national union leaders have done things that I agree are at odds with what I believe is important for public education and I have told them so.
I don’t think I’m the only one who still believes the union is necessary, but doesn’t agree with everything they say.
Dr. Horn believes changes need to be made in the way public education is treated in the US…but I don’t agree with everything he says either.
Michael Doninguez,
It is false to say that I “don’t allow” criticism of the unions. Hundreds if not thousands of comments on this blog have criticized the unions. I don’t block them. The fact that your comment is posted proves my point.
Mulgrew is a useless tool and a shill who needs to be voted out if we can’t find actionable information to arrest him with. There, I fixed that for you. Also see previous comments above. There’s no shortage of criticism of union leadership here, rather, it’s just one of the many problems we face that cannot be instantly solved.
In my opinion, he is jealous of your name recognition, the fact that you are an intelligent woman beholden to no one, and that you respect and are respected by people regardless of their race. Sorry to break it to you 🙂 He may share a lot of your perspectives, but he wants what you have, like a jealous sibling who didn’t get the EXACT SAME amount of ice cream for dessert.
No surprise he’s an awful troll but, it’s weird that he thinks we’re on opposite sides. Oh well. Some people believe the world is flat and the moon landing was staged.
First guess is that he’s angry that you, whom he sees as less radical and more capitulating, have all the attention, thus the voice. I will say that I was skeptical, at first, of someone who had originally supported NCLB, as its standard was so obviously ludicrous and designed to set teachers up. If he also saw it for what it was, he may not be able to forgive or respect someone who did not who is now a leader. (Personally, I admire the turn-around of DR, who, unlike most people in public life, was publicly able to admit a mistake and then act – and prominently – on that realization.)
If he is still a classroom teacher, he may be resentful of someone who is not, and who supported NCLB and ESSA, being the face of a movement.
I think it’s big of you to give him voice here.
Michael Dominguez points out a problem, as well. I see a similar thing happening union-wise – if you do not 100% support whatever is done – including various supports for corporate reform agenda items – then you are disloyal. However, I have not seen DR as being unwaveringly behind the unions. (Admittedly, I have stopped reading this regularly, in favor of spending time trying to find the mental means to deal with the overwork and degradation. The blog is wonderfully informative, but it is not helping me to cope.)
Times are bad and have been getting worse, not just for teachers. It brings out the worst in some people. I think you should keep on dealing with the situation calmly, and avoid becoming snarky back. Either he will come around in the end or not; there’s not much you can do about it, Diane.
Dr. Ravitch:
As I have followed this issue of disagreement among professionals, it is disappointing that individuals must resort to ad hominem comments. Hasn’ t our profession suffered enough from snarky retorts and verbal abuse?
It seems that some lost the value of disagreeing opinions while claiming to fight the same fight. This is a quandary, because we teach our learners to reflect and comment on the world based upon known facts and avoid emotional tirades when disagreement arises.
The attacks are a poor model for intelligent people to consider.
I do not always with your take on issues, but having the opportunity to hear a counter opinion serves me the chance check my perspective, and the exercise continually strengthens my world view.
Truth will always prevail, providing we exercise patience to see something through.
Edward Meidhof, Ed.D
Huh?
Made a mistake months ago to sign up for Horn’s blog and became increasingly concerned about his hate filled articles. Today’s blog is outrageous and crazy!
I looked through the entire blog for a place to UNSUBSCRIBE – no luck.
Can someone direct me?
Our world is full of marginal “humans” and I need to unplug this unstable guy.
Ed Detective asked me to post his comment on this thread:
This is what I tried to post. Thanks.
I strongly disagree with Diane Ravitch when it comes to certain political matters (especially when we’re talking about a certain presidential candidate) and have some differences when it comes to education and how it should be implemented, perhaps even some major differences. Yet just as I disagree with many on this blog about many things, I still consider most of them to be allies, if not friends, including Diane Ravitch.
Diane has tolerated my criticism and the criticism of so many others. I can only imagine what it’s like to be a high-profile intellectual and have thousands of people who disagree with you or even hate your guts, just for having a strong opinion and making it heard. I doubt I’ll ever know what that’s really like. A lot of celebrity-types do not handle it well. I think being famous is just as much a curse as a blessing, if not more so. It is a big responsibility to have your words heard and work read by potentially millions of people. Those who take this responsibility seriously, and do not quickly crumble from the pressure, have earned a lot of trust and respect from me.
I will continue to disagree with Diane Ravitch on certain issues, but at the end of the day I recognize that we have the same major goals. Diane truly believes in “liberty and justice for all” and has provided more than enough evidence that she is fighting for this in the right way. I will not stop disagreeing on certain matters, but I hope I am never so enraged or foolish enough to try to undermine her. Note that I said “try,” because it’s not like I could, even if I wanted to. Jim Horn cannot either.
I don’t think the Hillary vs Bernie analogy is a good one, since the concerns about Hillary not being on our “side” are well-justified. I see an analogy more along the lines of Socialists attacking Bernie Sanders for Not Being Socialist Enough. In a sense, the socialists were right that Bernie was not repping Socialism (workers owning the means of production), but he raised awareness in millions of people and strengthened/emboldened the working class and marginalized populations, which is also what Socialism is about. Bernie Sanders moved us closer to the goals that Socialists have, more than virtually any other “Socialist” of our time has done. It was short-sighted to try and undermine him from the left, and it is short-sighted to try and undermine Diane Ravitch from the left.
The left has long been an enemy of itself, in different ways than the right has undermined itself (which now can be observed through Trump).
Jim Horn should re-evaluate his allegiance. Drawing a line in the sand and making yourself lonely on one side is usually not a good idea. I say that as a life-long “lone wolf” who has tried to learn to fight together for the common good, especially when it becomes so necessary for survival. I say this as a teacher who doesn’t even like the way most teachers teach. I started out my “detective” career doing a lot more criticism of teacher practices, but I have laid back on that, because I have become more attuned to the “goliath” we are fighting. I don’t agree with lots of teachers, but I’ll be damned if economists, politicians, and billionaires decide what education will be instead.
Thank you, Diane, for your tireless and important work. You, Robert Valiant, and Mark Naison were the first three people to give me some hope seven years ago or so. I am so grateful—don’t let the turkeys get you down.
Nothing at all unusual here. An advocate of the perfect who condemns advocates of the good, or at least better. They elected George Bush in 2000. And they are very sensitive to charges of harming the cause, not necessarily from a guilty conscience, sometimes simply from recognition of the power of the charge to convince others. There is no conversation to be had, as the issue is moral not practical, thus the best policy is not to engage at all