These were three powerful speeches, each powerful in a different way.
Here is Michelle Obama’s speech. She was wonderful, eloquent. The Atlantic called it “a speech for the ages.”
Here is Elizabeth Warren speaking. She was sharp, tough, and funny.
Here is Bernie Sanders’ speech. He was met with raucous and sustained applause. He made two important points: the revolution he started will continue, and Hillary Clinton must defeat Donald Trump.
All the speakers said, “I’m with her.”
Diane Ravitch's blog 
Many teachers I know will NOT vote for Hillary.
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Teach, do they prefer Trump? That’s the choice: Hillary or Trump.
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If the Republicans win this election, and they might, you can say goodbye to unions and public schools, to gun control and environmental regulation, to reproductive rights and gay rights. Be ready for mass deportations. Listen to Trump. He means every word.
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Diane
The answer to that probably would be yes . Trump appeals to fear and bigotry . Leftcoast, Dienne and DamPoet with many others, oppose Hillary due to a real sense of betrayal, but they do not support Trump . I feel the same but do not believe that that change will come through the sadomasochistic exercise of a Trump presidency
The support for Trump for the most part is fear and ignorance and bigotry.
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“I feel the same but do not believe that that change will come through the sadomasochistic exercise of a Trump presidency”
Nor do I. But a Trump presidency if it happens is on Hillary and her supporters. If they want my vote, they have to quit spitting in my face and start listening to my legitimate concerns. I think I speak for many. Just because Trump is horrible (and he is) does not mean that my vote automatically goes to Hillary. She still has to earn it, and she seems not to understand that.
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Folks have a tendency to categorize teachers as being “liberal”. I have found that not to be true.
Think about it, one doesn’t become a teacher if one doesn’t believe in the basic tenets and structures of society. Teachers in one sense are charged with the continuation of society. It has only been fairly recently, the last 40 years or so that the concept of teaching for liberation not only of the person’s mind but also society-wise.
Even still the vast majority of teachers I have worked with have been what I would consider “conservative” (and no not the current definition of regressive conservatism) and many consistently vote Republican. So in that sense, many teachers won’t vote for HRC. (for those of you like I that are diagnosed Acronym Impaired HRC = Her Royal Consort)
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And, no, Diane. Those are not the only choices. Ay, ay, ay, ay, ay.
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“. . . but also society-wise HAS EMERGED. Ay, ay ay. Este escritor es un. . . .
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Dienne
It has gone beyond tone deaf . They are blind to the Tsunami approaching.
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The message I received from the convention last evening was that I have someone to vote against rather than someone to vote for.
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Jim, I would agree with you. I’m a huge Hillary supporter, and I know that the speakers last night had the tricky challenge of keeping the anti-HIllary sentiment in check. Michelle’s speech was uplifting, appealing to our better natures. Warren’s was red meat, and Bernie had to bring his supporters around, and he’s been fairly steadfast since acknowledging his loss at saying that the task at hand is beating Trump. Warren and Bernie especially wove opportunities to boo Trump into their speeches.
The harder task of the next three nights will be constructing the narrative and telling us who Hillary Clinton is. We need a story that resonates, her own “town called Hope” moment. Look to Bill and Chelsea to do this, with assists from Barack and Joe. On the one hand, it is amazing to see the diversity in the crowd. On the other, the message needs to be more about Hillary herself, why she in particular is a force for good and the personal story that she brings to this.
And we need some more up-to-date musical interludes, please, no more Paul Simon!
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Your vote matters, whether you are voting for or against.
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“We need a story that resonates, her own “town called Hope” moment.”
No, what we need to hear is what, specifically, are her policies, how will they affect ordinary Americans and how can we trust her to follow through on any of them rather than revert back to her Wall Street/corporate backers?
I don’t care if she was born on top of Mount Everest and that very day she single-handedly carried her mother down the mountain and saved her life. Hillary’s personal story is irrelevant, and worrying about such narratives is what’s gotten us into the mess we’re in now.
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That was just one of many messages last night. If you’re grieving Bernie’s loss, condolences to you. The big message is simple: vote for the party you most agree with. And bring your friends along. This is not a romance. It’s not gonna feel like perfection. You’re not selecting a lover or even a best friend. We have three months to decide who’s best to lead our country and the free(ish) world for the next four years.
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Since you wrote “best,” not “better,” Connie, [“We have three months to decide who’s best to lead our country and the free(ish) world for the next four years.”], I gather you agree with those of us who firmly believe that there are more than two choices. And the best is not numbered among Donald nor Hillary.
As for “freeish,” that’s like “truthiness,” and is something a lot of us are not willing to settle for in 2016 and beyond. Your use of the term suggests you recognize the fraudulence in what the two main parties are serving up and calling a free and fair democratic choice. If so, welcome to the revolution: no more corporate shills, pseudo-progressives, neo-fascists, or other enemies of the people.
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Policy positions are important, Dienne, but I suspect most people are looking for connection and a candidate who effectively aligns him/herself with the voters, saying, in effect, I represent who you are. That’s why so many of them emphasize their humble roots. That’s why Bill Clinton’s “I feel your pain” moment was so powerful during the 1992 debates, in contrast to GHWB’s perceived disinterest in the voters. I detested Ronald Reagan, but he too was a gifted speaker who was brilliant at appealing to the higher natures of his listeners, as Michelle did last night. Like Reagan and her husband, Hillary has to say “This is who I am, and this is who we are.”
I’m not discounting policy positions, but–in my very humble opinion–I think personal narrative and connection are what sell voters.
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District 13 – you are probably right, but if people haven’t figured out from Bill Clinton’s and Barack Obama’s personal stories that personal stories have nothing to do with it, then heaven help us all. Bill Clinton felt our pain because he was the one delivering it.
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I’m with her, too — with Jill Stein.
— Sincerely, SomeDAM Stein Troll
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Poet,
If Trump is leading in the polls by 1% on Election Day, will you still vote for Strin?
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It depends on the individual state where you live. Stein is currently polling at about 3% and in most states, a voted for Stein will make no difference. I actually don’t live in a state where it will make a difference.
That’s why the general statement that “a vote for Stein is a vote for Trump” is simply false.
Blaming people like me for Trump’s win would actually be quite irrational, though I am sure some people will do it.
Finally, if Clinton keeps doing dumb things like appointing Wasserman-Schultz as honorary campaign chair and choosing a fellow for VP who supported TPP fast track, I doubt it will even be close.
The reality is that only Clinton can right the sinking ship.
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Nate Silver seems to agree that it won’t be close: http://bit.ly/2asejMM.
No number of sell-out speeches by the likes of Sarah “Not MUCH of a hypocrite” Silverman, no number of calls for unity, no number of “stirring” love-chats from Bill & Chelsea, will change reality: the DNC and the sheep don’t have enough candidate here to beat a carnival barker/clown. But there IS a candidate the DNC has that it rejects, despite the consistent data the show him crushing Donald Trump. If only we could figure out that candidate’s name!
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You mean the commie atheist Jew?
(Sorry for any redundancy)
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So admit it Dampoet ,if your State was on the line you would be like me and vote for Hill and not Jill run for the school toilet and barf. Thanks now i don’t feel like such a coward .
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Yes, I would but only after looking closely at the polls for my state. I would have to be convinced that Stein votes might potentially swing the state and thereby the election.
Unless things change rather drastically, that only has even the potential of being the case in a small number of states (and the potential seems to be growing smaller with each passing day)
Folks are free to call that position cowardly
— Sincerely,
SomeDAM Cowardly Stein troll
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Even though not directed at me, to answer Diane’s and Joel Hermann’s question:
The closeness of the race in my state has nothing to do with who I vote for. I’ll be voting for Jill Stein and I’m pretty sure it will have to be a write in.
Live in fear vote the lesser of two evils.
Live your conscience vote FOR the candidate that best represents your conscience.
For me that is Jill Stein.
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Duane,
I respect your position.
I actually believe it is very undemocratic (and more than a little hubristic) to tell others how they should vote.
It’s one of the very few decisions that people should feel free to make for themselves.
It’s also one of the few choices you can make without anyone actually knowing what choice you made.
The thing that I find most curious is that the argument is always the same. Only the names change. ln the last election it was “You can’t vote for Stein because then Romney will get in… and, you know, all hell will break loose”. Of course. now Romney looks pretty good.
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Me too!
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I was encouraged by the speeches last night. The Democrats elevated the discussion, and they offered many more specifics than the Republicans. Even when Warren attacked Trump, her harshest words were “con man.” Then she went on to report on how Trump has been stiffing vendors and exploiting bankruptcy laws to build his empire. Warren and Mrs. Obama were very eloquent.
The crown jewel of the evening was Sanders. It was the best speech I have ever seen him make. He was both conciliatory and inspiring. It was an important speech, not just for its content, but for unleashing the passion of youth on a tired old Democratic party. If the Democrats ignore these young people and continue to serve only corporations, they run the risk of losing their momentum to a new third party. Bernie has already achieved several progressive concessions from the party. As Bernie pointed out, he will work with Hillary to achieve this vision. Bill was watching from the balcony, and I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall. My take away was change or die; I hope Hillary understands this. Bernie and his movement will be watching closely.
Robert Reich posted a very clear, concise video on the positive impact he hopes Bernie has had on the Democratic party. I hope the DNC reads the handwriting on the wall.https://www.facebook.com/RBReich/?fref=ts
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I don’t think the DNC gives a da#n about the youth. Today’s millennials are akin to the generation, such as my parents, who suffered through the Great Depression. Hillary only throws cold crumbs to the majority of America, while praising the inclusion of women in the military draft.
Neocons and war hawks, even the Republican ones, are gravitating toward Hillary. What worries me is that I would not put it past her to escalate military conflicts, re-institute a draft and send many of those millennials who did not support her into some Middle Eastern conflict. (She has already kissed the ring of the rightwing, bellicose Bibi Netenyahu.) It would be her payback to the millennials, while then reducing the ranks of the unemployed. Voilla!
Cynical, yes – but I wouldn’t put it past the Goldman Sachs candidate. The DNC’s actions to undermine Sanders, and Hillary’s immediate embrace of the disgraced Debbie Wasserman Schultz (a BFF of the payday lending industry) and her selection of a pro-TPP and pro-deregulation VP pick (Kaine) are just two of the most obvious “Eff Yus” Hillary has demonstrated thus far. I look for her to pivot even further rightward.
Sorry if this seems so negative – but this is the perspective of an ordinary citizen who has lived through family layoffs, downward mobility in a rust belt state, while more jobs are offshored.
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eleanor – well said, and don’t forget that Hillary is well loved by Henry Kissinger, which love is quite mutual.
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No one here thinks they will change . They will walk away from this and say if Bernie never should have ran. They would have won . The Clinton’s love playing the victim. Monica assaulted Bill !
Reich doesn’t think they will change .Was that not the short piece about a change electorate. What did it say that DWS was not introduced to the back door on Saturday .
Obama can rescue Hillary not with a fancy speech but with concrete actions . Nobody is going to believe her nor his fancy uplifting speech progressives certainly will not . I will love it , I wont believe it. . The right certainly will not.
I called the White House and asked .
“Do you want to be remembered as the first Black President or the president who led the people to Trump .Your legacy can be the TPP or Trump”
. He pulls it off the table attributes his change of mind to the progressives, enough votes swing in the once industrial Midwest to block Trump . Of course it was futile.
Nobody is going to believe sugary speeches anymore . Nobody believes Hillary for certain.
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I agree with you, but what I saw at the convention was young people that will not be appeased with a token nod to Bernie. Bernie is trying to work with the party, but it is up to party to either use the momentum or quash it. The Democrats must move left to survive, or these young people may blow up the party. I wouldn’t blame them, if the Democrats ignore this populist movement.
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I vote for you eleanor!
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Retired Teacher .
I have been waiting for the Party to move left since Jimmy Carter. . Instead they countered Reagan by adopting Milton Friedman,well almost.
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To eleanor:
You will see more than job loss to offshore when Trump and Pence and Thiel work together to create a massive deceitful network of value-less humanity, democracy and public education.
You and all gullible educated educators inevitably become a mouthpiece for con men and his party to build the strongest legal system from local Court House all the way to the highest Supreme Court where nobody can dare utter the simplest protest among family members, or neighbors, or at work because of the fear to be in jail or to get retaliation.
Decent people will quietly die in the dark.
Hyenas jump for joy on the feast for they are allowed to harass innocent people with their protection fee.
Crocodile, alligators and caimans are all over for profits fearlessly thanks to their OWN law-less legal system.
I did not believe in my own eyes to read the expressions from people who are educators without understanding of the power in AMERICAN Supreme Court Justice.
There is no need to spread the fear, because the fear is coming to your children and grand-children who are inherited from their parents’ gullibility and ignorance of the danger from talent-less and shady businessman, and his vicious, devious and greedy gangs.
There is nothing to lose for old retired people, BUT the ultimate desperation for many upcoming young generations. These young people are taught by UN-qualified teaching system according to Governor Kasich of Ohio, or Governor Walker of ? who approved no credential check, no qualified certification and no criminal background check for being teacher. Ay, ay, ay, ay, ay…Back2basic
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retired teacher
While i agree with most of what you said, I think it’s wrong to say that the young people “may blow up the party”.
First, the party has already done that to itself
Second, if anything, young people have given the party a chance at a second lease on life
If the Democratic party does not take the offering, that is not the fault of the young people. It is the fault of the dinosaurs in the party who can not read their own obituary on the wall.
So far, I see little or no indication that the Dinos have learned anything — and the comet is coming, aimed directly at them, in fact.
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I liked what Nina Turner had to say:
Q. Are you leaving the Democratic party?
A.”I wouldn’t give them the satisfaction!”
https://twitter.com/robkall/status/756940679482335232
I’m not leaving the party either. I believe Sanders has raised the issues that young people have longed to hear articulated. He has further demonstrated his integrity because he has not compromised his principals over the course of the election. He remained focused on issues, not on personalities. His approach is a throwback to the statesmanship I was raised to believe politics was supposed to be about.
His grace in moving for a unanimous declaration for Clinton demonstrates his leadership – it’s not about him; it’s about his ideas and ideals.
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Bernie’s always a class act. Just remember how he acted when progressives are told REPEATEDLY during the reign of HRC by her fanatical supporters that “He lost, she won, we don’t have to do what you want,” as anything vaguely progressive goes down the toilet. Start with education.
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Spot on…Twitter says they’ve stripped Nina of her credentials. Not even waiting for the convention to end.
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Comet a little to forceful how about we vote for the Meteor strike.
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Too
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The comet I was talking about is Trump.
If the Dinos don’t change their ways and fast, the comet is inevitable
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oh, I see, Joel,
Good one.
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The frustration with the status quo, the corporatism and the political bloviators has reached such a level that people are willing to believe a two-bit vicious, lying, erratic and dangerous demagogue like Donald Trump; he is unique in our recent history. He is beyond the pale. Trump will begin his presidency with a GOP controlled congress with which he can start his trickle down economics plan. He and the GOP are cynical and lying about reinstating Glass-Steagall. This is how it will work: the legislation to reinstate G-S will have so many poison pills (such as cuts to Social Security and Medicare) that the Dems will not be able to vote for it. Hillary has baggage but at least she is up to date on social issues, climate change, abortion rights and then there is the supreme court. Her husband who was a centrist corporate friendly GOP-lite president at least appointed Ginsberg and Breyer to the court. My advice: follow Bernie’s advice. But I did appreciate that the Bernie supporters booed and threw a strong message at all the Democratic sell outs, which are most of them.
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Apparently, a lot of people are NOT with her and ARE with Donald Trump. But of course let’s stay the course, back the Republican in the $12K Armani clothes, and lose in November: http://bit.ly/2asejMM
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I’ll bet that for four days, traditional public schools will not exist in the rhetoric of the Democratic Convention. Perhaps this beats the alternative of bashing or conflation with the publicly funded private schools (Charter Schools). No one will step up to defend public education or to be a champion. Oh, vague references to everyone deserving a great education will be floated, the soaring rhetoric used to mask the colonizing of public schools by private interests. Of course, its not all about the president but we will know something when HRC nominates a a Sec of Ed candidate. She has no commitment to public schools—few elites in either party do—so we will need to make it in her best interest to do the right thing. That will be a heavy burden, given the $ interests aligned against us.
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“She has no commitment to public schools.” How do we know this? What we know is she supported NCLB, but that was at the beginning of the accountability movement. As state senator, she always supported strong public schools. We know she still supports “high performing charters” and the Common Core. I believe both Clinton and Sanders’ lack deep understanding of all the issues associated with public education today. We know she has many charter pals and donors, but that does not necessarily mean she will turn her back on public schools. What is needed is the “re-education of Hillary Clinton. What will happen no one knows for sure, but whatever she decides will be 100% better than Trump and probably a lot better than Obama.
Frankly, I’m with her because I can’t be with him. As a strong advocate for public education, I cannot afford to flush my vote down the toilet to satisfy my ideals. I must make my vote count and keep a bigoted monster and his regressive tribe out of the White House.
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To “re-educate” someone, you must believe that that person has the capacity to be educated and the motivation to do so. I see little evidence of the former in Sec. Clinton and zero of the latter. The only candidate with both is being made to throw himself on his sword, apparently (who knows what will happen tonight?) Vermonters I know well who know and have worked with Sanders support my firm belief that he would be by far the best POTUS for public education we’ve seen in generations. HRC? Trump? I see no evidence that if education is your issue, there’s any reason to pick one over the other. Obama gave us the fond fantasy that he would be the dream president for teachers, kids, and parents. It was a lie. HRC doesn’t even pretend.
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Get over it, Michael
Sanders was double-cross… err, he lost, Fair and Balanced* …I mean “square.”
*TM Fox News
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I believe Hillary is a better person, albeit greedy, than we think. I was an ESL teacher in New York when she was senator. When CHIP was formed, she fought to extend benefits to undocumented children and got it. This was a tremendous benefit to my young students that prior to this, were getting their rotten teeth yanked out by family members with a set of pliers. Another child had a heart murmur detected. I am not extolling the virtues of Hillary, and I know she has baggage. I know what I lived, and Hillary did make a positive impact in New York.
I would rather see the Democrats evolve than implode. I believe this is the better way to go for public schools. It would take years to develop a more progressive third party. At that point, I fear, public education could be a distant, nostalgic memory. Bernie knows his best chance for a lasting, more progressive movement with with the Democrats.
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retired teacher, if you follow the money trail, you will see where Hillary’s loyalites lie. Do you think Alice Walton gave her a $343,500 donation just because they are BFF’s?
Remember, the Walton Family Foundation has just pledged another $1 billion to expand charter schools for the next five years. Methinks the Waltons view that as seed money until the federal and state ed funds get funneled to those charters.
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All that money comes with strings attached. No matter what Hillary does, it can’t be worse than Obama, and it may be better. With Trump, we know he wants to destroy public schools. Do we really want to give him free reign of all that public money knowing he and his barbarian hoarde are waiting to drain us dry?
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It can be worse than Obama. My district is well on the way to eliminating public schools. Hillary could help finish off the job. When is she going to release that Goldman Sachs speech? As I listened to the oratory last night, I was keeping a mental list of which of these policies Hillary actually supported. The list wasn’t long.
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Bernie was better at promoting hypothetical Hillary than Hillary will ever be at promoting whatever it is she stands for today.
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I recommend following The Young Turks coverage of the convention; it’s unique and different. Try youtube or their web site. That conspiracy nut, Alex Jones, crashed Cenk Uyghur’s live coverage of the GOP convention and a fight nearly broke out.
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I dislike dynastic succession or the idea of political royalty and we’ve seen that with the Bushes and the incipient Clinton presidency. But we could do a lot worse than Michelle Obama as president.
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Christine: MO is a classy person, but why do you think she’d be better than her husband or the Clintons on public education?
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I don’t know that she’d be an improvement over Obama, but her speech focused on kids and our responsibility to them to assure they grow up in a fair and just nation. And perhaps her focus on children’s health is just a non-controversial role she could comfortably fulfill as FLOTUS, but it is the kind of work she did before the presidency. She actually attended public school, too, so there’s that. And finally, we’ve had a black president and it appears that we’re going to have a female president, so perhaps a black female president, is in order.
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She is a very gifted orator, just like president Obama, and her speech was lovely. But if you actually evaluate it on substance, it was mostly inspiring imagery, uplifting sentiments and cheerleading. Her speech did not acknowledge the problems facing America, nor offer any solutions, other than voting for Hillary.
And I found it distasteful when she said “America is the greatest county on earth!” I realize that is a swipe at Donald, but what rank and silly jingoism.
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@concerned Hear, hear!
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Concerned citizen: I cringed when Michelle said, “America is the greatest county on earth!” How do people in other countries feel when our politicians make such statements? It is arrogant and full of hubris. I don’t think Michelle is arrogant or full of hubris but she could have just said that America is a great country. However, if she had not said that, the GOP would be pummeling her with the usual accusations. The GOP takes ever opportunity to portray her as an anti-American angry black woman.
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Only the greatest country on earth?
Michelle (or her speechwriter) must be prone to understatement (in addition to plagiarism, given that google shows 30,700 results for that phrase, the vast majority said before last night , and the phrase “America is the greatest country in the world” which is basically the same, shows 99,900 results)
Otherwise, she would have said “America is the greatest country in the galaxy” at the very least.
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By the way, even if she had said “America is the greatest country in the galaxy”, she still would have been plagiarizing, though she might have gotten away with it because it is far less common ( a far less cliche) than “America is the greatest country on earth”
google only shows 2 results for the “in the galaxy” phrase
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Poet,
Who did Michelle O plagiarize?
If I say “America is the greatest country in the world,” am I plagiarizing MO?
Surely you recognize the difference between repeating a common phrase and lifting two full paragraphs?
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Interestingly, the phrase “america is the greatest country in the universe” shows 54,400 results, which is actually very curious, since only 2 people seem to think it is the greatest country in the galaxy.
the only related phrase that Michelle could have said that would probably not have plagiarized would seem to be “America is the greatest country in the multiverse”, which shows no hits on google.
Though, of course, just because it does not show on google does not mean no one has ever said it before. Christopher Columbus might well have said it when he stepped off the boat in the new world.
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Well, except that you just said it, so she would be plagiarizing you.
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Diane,
It was a joke.
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Sorry for missing the punch line
The Hillary Hatred Syndrome is getting me out of sorts
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..but frankly, I thought the whole “Melania plagirized!” (gasp!) thing was quite overblown, given the context.
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I am mistrustful of Hillary, but I don’t hate her. I am going out on a limb, but I believe Hillary does care for children. I say this based on having Hillary as a senator in New York. I may be naive, but I believe she is smart and thoughtful. If enough evidence is presented to her to show the harmful impact of charters on children and/or public schools, she may be willing to change some of her views, IMHO.
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Silly Poet – Things are only overblown if you are supporting Bernie or not worshipping Hillary.
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Linda,
You should continue to support Bernie. He is building a popular movement. Join it. Help him.
But take his advice: we must do whatever we can to keep Trump out of the White House.
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Powerful description of the atmosphere at the convention, and the current state of America, from reporter Hamilton Nolan:
http://gawker.com/everythings-not-good-1784303452
Best reaction to Sarah Silverman’s words that I’ve seen online so far:
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Great link concerned!
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The closing line of Everything’s not good is deadly:
“Democrats can enjoy this convention behind the security barriers and closed doors. When they emerge, an angry country will be there waiting for them.”
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Michelle says are children are watching and we are doing this for our children. She seems clueless about the effects of the CCS industrial complex on other people’ children. Yes, our children have been watching and most are not protected and safely ensconced at Sidwell Friends, Lakeside, or Chicago lab schools. But she was a big hit.
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Our children…typo or autocorrect. 😩
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Agreed.
Michelle said she supports Hillary because “Hillary has been fighting her entire life for children.” No.
Hillary’s mentor Marian Wright Edelman, founder of the Children’s Defense Fund, disavowed Hillary saying “Hillary is not a friend in politics.” That was because of the devastation of poor children caused by the Clinton welfare reforms of the 90’s, enacted by Bill and endorsed by Hillary.
The Clintons also supported the rise of charter schools in the 90’s though to today.
On foreign policy, it is not fighting for children to drop bombs on them. It is not fighting for children to destabilize an entire region and cause a refugee crisis.
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Concerned Citizen,
It was not Hillary who destabilized the Middle East. It was George W. Bush. Please don’t use Trump’s lines. She didn’t create ISIS either.
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Hillary voted to allow Iraq.
And she aggressively pushed for military action in Libya (and gloated about it – “We came, we saw, he died, ha ha ha” – remember that?). You don’t think that has any bearing on ISIS?
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Hillary voted for the Iraq war. As Secretary of State she pushed Obama to intervene in Libya, backed coup leaders in Honduras, and pushed for more aggression in Syria.
Here’s a quote from the NY Times, excerpted in a Mother Jones article:
“For all their bluster about bombing the Islamic State into oblivion, neither Donald J. Trump nor Senator Ted Cruz of Texas have demonstrated anywhere near the appetite for military engagement abroad that Clinton has.”
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/04/hillary-clinton-really-loves-military-intervention
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Less than twelve hours after the opening night, the new “unity” chair can’t even acknowledge her closing speaker. Once called out, she created a bland follow up. But she didn’t even think of him…so much for unity….please get in line and obey.
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Thank you so much. I caught Bernie but got home too late to catch the others!
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Credit to Bernie. Uncertainty with Hillary.
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I don’t seem to be able to post comments any more.
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Dawn,
There are three rules on this blog.
1. Don’t insult me.
2. No F words
3. No conspiracy theories.
You violated rule 3.
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This vote is about globalism vs. sovereignty. It is about the influence of un-elected Elites vs. nationalism. Brexit was a vote for sovereignty. What does Hillary stand for?
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Dawn,
Your claims that the Council on Foreign Relations is pulling the strings on everyone in power is conspiracy theory. I know several members of CFR and they are good people.
I personally blasted CFR for publishing a shabby report about US public Education by a task force headed by Joel Klein and Condi Rice.
I hold no brief for CFR but it is not the Trilateral Commission or a secret society
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Hillary stands for the status quo and corruption, open borders, etc. I know many teachers who will never vote for Hillary as well. Many of you are living in “La La land.” Michelle said, “I wake up everyday in a house built by slaves.” I felt the bile rise up in my throat. This is truly an election of “good” versus “evil.” “Rules” vs. “chaos.” I had to turn it off.
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bile….yes…
Why would anyone want to open the borders and actively bring in thousands of uneducated immigrants?
When people no longer see the benefit or even legitimacy of the government, it is threatened with its own demise, not with force, but just people’s thoughts….Obama is and Hillary will increase flooding our country with immigrants who do not understand our constitution and will not assimilate but will be able to vote to keep their nanny state benefactors in office while the host nationalists pay their taxes so that the system can even exist. Is this sustainable? No. But they are not long term thinkers. They’re just power junkies.
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Dawn,
If the government had that policy earlier in the last century, my mother would not have been allowed into the country. And she would have died in the Holocaust as the rest of her family did.
We are a nation of immigrants.
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Dawn, when you speak of immigrants who don’t know the US constitution, etc., you sound like every nativist that has ever wanted to keep out the next group after being him/herself an immigrant. The only people in this country with the right to speak like that are amongst the most abused and decimated groups of people on this planet: Native Americans. I’m pretty sure you’re not one. And as a grandson of 3 immigrants (my maternal grandmother was born here), I think you need to rethink your attitude. It reads like something out of the Alex Jones/Rush Limbaugh/Glenn Beck playbook.
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I don’t think it is too much to ask that immigrants should learn the language and seek to work in the country they have arrived in. When people want to become citizens here, they take a test which includes some knowledge of our constitution. It is unique in the world. And the only way it will stay in place is if each successive generation including immigrants that come along understand it and cherish it.
The US Constitution is founded on the belief that man has inalienable God-given rights that cannot be denied by man because they are from God.
The United Nations Declaration of Human Rights is a secular document.
No mention of God as a higher authority to man and no mention of man as a higher authority to government. There is no allusion to the idea that men create governments to serve their purpose and have right to abolish and reform them. The assumption is that government grants rights.
What is at stake here is the Elite globalists who run the UN want to destroy the sovereignty of the US because our constitution is in direct contradiction to their laws and goals. Obama and Hillary and (Bernie actually) love the UN with all its environmentalism and multiculturalism and allegiance to Technocracy. I would love to know what Donald Trump really thinks of the UN. When he praises people like Richard Haas…I just don’t get it.
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Legal immigrants, Dr. Ravitch! We are a country of legal immigrants! No one has anything against “legal” immigrants. Our ancestors filled out paperwork, etc. They didn’t break in here from Europe. Look at what unrestricted immigration is doing to Europe right now!! Unrestricted immigration is cultural death and dangerous! Europe will end up like Yugoslavia and I mean soon. How many Jews have to move to Israel now because of the new “refugees”?? You are blinded by a crazy ideology. Yes, we need sensible (legal) immigration (as Trump says), but not millions of uneducated slave workers. That does no one any good! It just keeps wages low, and hurts other minorities who need to work as well. We have enough unemployed, uneducated people already. Of course who knows how many terrorists are slipping in as well. To keep going on the Obama path is madness (including his terrible education policies). It takes a lot of guts to support Democrats, after the last disastrous eight years. Try to think critically about what is going on in the world right now. I don’t know Dawn, but it is refreshing to find at least one other teacher with common sense here. I actually liked Bernie Sanders as well because he was “HONEST!” He wanted what is best for the American people. This is similar to Trump from the other side. Ironically, I may have voted for Sanders. He is a good man.
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John,
I live most of the time in an agricultural area. Most of the people who do the hard work in fields and vineyards and construction are immigrants, and I suspect most are undocumented. They are hard-working and humble. I know one man who works in construction. He hasn’t seen his family for seven years. He sends them money but he can’t see them. If he leaves, he can never return. I would sponsor him if I could, but the law doesn’t permit that. He’s a good man. He works six days a week, 10 hours a day. He would be a good American, but there is no path to citizenship for him. There are many like him.
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Diane,
I understand we are a nation of immigrants who did their best to assimilate, learn the language, advance their skills, understand our constitution, fit into the neighborhood… and there was no welfare for all at the time, so they worked and paid taxes like everybody else, and the innovative ones created businesses and invented things and that is what made our great “melting pot” the most productive place on earth. (That’s capitalism for you.)
The program that the UN is carrying out now is an entirely different situation. Obama has brought in 6,000 immigrants already and is on track to make it 10,000 by September, supposedly from Syria (who knows?), 99% of whom are Muslim. He doesn’t seem to bring in many Syrian Christians even though they are being beheaded daily for their faith (just as your mother was persecuted) and he is settling them in 190 cities across the US. They are put on welfare.
I am not racist. Anyway Islam is not a race. It is a religion. I take a lot of abuse on this blog for proclaiming my belief in our Almighty Creator, who sent his Son, Jesus Christ. to save us all. You never come down on anyone for mocking me or my God when I just try to point out some already admitted (by the scientific community, not Christians) flaws in Darwin’s theory of Evolution which is now taught as fact in our schools. Anyway….
I would just like to bring attention to the fact that Obama and Hillary (who has pledged to increase immigration by 500%) are doing something that has never been done before. They seem to be doing it just to ensure they continue to stay in power. This amount of immigration from Muslim countries that do not speak English will be very expensive for our schools, hospitals and cities to take care of. We are already in a recession with so many people out of work and our young people graduating with debt and no job prospects. Why flood the nation with more problems?
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DAWN: I understand we are a nation of immigrants who did their best to assimilate, learn the language, advance their skills, understand our constitution, fit into the neighborhood… and there was no welfare for all at the time, so they worked and paid taxes like everybody else, and the innovative ones created businesses and invented things and that is what made our great “melting pot” the most productive place on earth. (That’s capitalism for you.)
1) In what year did Federal income taxes become constitutional in the US, Dawn? How many immigrants came here before that year? My entire family, for starters.
2) Read much about indentured servitude in your researches?
3) Read much about Chinese railroad workers who helped build the Transcontinental Railroad?
4) Do you know how many of your comments about resisting assimilation have been applied to Jews in this and many other countries? We’re VERY clannish, you know. We stick to ourselves, don’t learn the language, practice our odd religion, dress funny, have odd food and weird music, and blah, blah, blah. Protocols of the Elders of Zion on your bookshelf, perchance?
DAWN: The program that the UN is carrying out now is an entirely different situation. Obama has brought in 6,000 immigrants already and is on track to make it 10,000 by September, supposedly from Syria (who knows?), 99% of whom are Muslim. He doesn’t seem to bring in many Syrian Christians even though they are being beheaded daily for their faith (just as your mother was persecuted) and he is settling them in 190 cities across the US. They are put on welfare.
And now we get into the realm of La La Land and the tin foil hats. Sorry, but I’m still waiting for Jade Helm to destroy Texas and confiscate everyone’s guns there. Call me when that happens. You, Alex Jones, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, and I can drink beer and muse over the destruction of Amuricuh.
DAWN: I am not racist.
Well, that’s good to know. I’m not a Martian. I guess we’ve settled a lot of doubts.
DAWN: Anyway Islam is not a race. It is a religion. I take a lot of abuse on this blog for proclaiming my belief in our Almighty Creator, who sent his Son, Jesus Christ. to save us all. You never come down on anyone for mocking me or my God when I just try to point out some already admitted (by the scientific community, not Christians) flaws in Darwin’s theory of Evolution which is now taught as fact in our schools. Anyway….
Sorry, but I’m not going to take the bait on that paragraph, enormous as it is and multifaceted.
Dawn: I would just like to bring attention to the fact that Obama and Hillary (who has pledged to increase immigration by 500%) are doing something that has never been done before. They seem to be doing it just to ensure they continue to stay in power. This amount of immigration from Muslim countries that do not speak English will be very expensive for our schools, hospitals and cities to take care of. We are already in a recession with so many people out of work and our young people graduating with debt and no job prospects. Why flood the nation with more problems?
Okay, I know this is another poser, but knowing history just fills me with these little gems that some like to call “facts”:
What was the first instance of bilingual education in US public schools? That is, where, when, and in what language was instruction given in both English and this other tongue, virtually forced upon the schools by angry and insistent parents?
I’ll wait while you guess wrong repeatedly. No fair going to the Internet, Dawn. After all, good Americans in the old days didn’t resort to things like computers or the World-Wide Web. The very term smacks of One-World Gummint and the UN.
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We really are in an echo chamber. 90%. (according to Pew Research) of Bernie’s supporters are now backing Hillary. But 10%, the most extreme outliers, are the most vocal.
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And let’s keep berating them and minimizing their concerns. It’s been a winning strategy. Those in attendance report people were brought in to fill seats prior to Bill’s speech as the arena was half empty. Bernie signs taken away. Bernie volunteers denied entrance. Anything to prop up Hillary.
A must read: Everything’s not good on Gawker. Will repost
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Here’s the problem..worship fully or be berated and abused.
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The Democratic convention is a sterling affair if you have that credential. If you don’t, you will be herded behind steel gates to stare at those who do. You will be mocked by reporters who sit in an air-conditioned fully comped lounge as you sweat outside. You will be simultaneously asked for your support and threatened with a materially worse life if you withhold it. The dynamic is the same in the Republican Party, but the repugnance of many of the positions its outsiders hold make it harder to sympathize with them.
Everything is not good. The Democrats can enjoy this convention behind the security barriers and closed doors. When they emerge, an angry country will be there waiting for them.
http://gawker.com/everythings-not-good-1784303452
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Michael Paul,
!) 1913. Why do you jump on the paying taxes part but not on the point that there was no welfare for arriving immigrants? Open borders and a welfare state is unsustainable.
2)Indentured servants in US history traded seven years of free labor for the price of passage to the New World; most were given some land, new clothes, and a cow when that time was up. They assimilated at that point. (We have young people now who agree to work on farms in Europe just so they can travel around after they have done their time – different but still the same idea of voluntary servitude for a specified time.)
3)There is a rich history of racism in US history. No denying that. The Chinese suffered a lot and were not allowed to own land at that time.
4) When Orthodox communities begin to expand exponentially, annexing land, with no intention of assimilation demanding a lot of fraudulent welfare for supposedly single women (married by Jewish law) who are having ten babies each, there is resistance. They are expecting people outside their community to pay for their way of life. Live however you want but don’t expect others to pay for it. Doing that creates unnecessary tension which is always referred to as Anti-Semitic, when it is actually just about money and land. The Amish live secluded lives and nobody gets upset about them because they don’t expect others to pay for their chosen lifestyle. They pay taxes and do not accept welfare. So stop trying to call me names and debate on the issues.
La La Land? Obama’s FBI director, James Comey, has acknowledged that the vetting of Syrian refugees is an imperfect science, because the United States is limited in its ability to investigate their backgrounds.
“If someone has never made a ripple in the pond in Syria in a way that would get their identity or their interest reflected in our database, we can query our database until the cows come home, but there will be nothing show up because we have no record of them,” Comey told lawmakers last year.
The IRC expressed “dismay” when the President announced the goal of resettling 10,000 Syrian refugees.
This was a report by CNN – which is not considered right wing.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/01/politics/obama-pledge-10000-syrian-refugees-falling-short/
Please tell me about the first instance of bilingual education in US because I don’t know and I like to learn new things.
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The first instance of bilingual education was the teaching of German in the 19th century, a practice found in many Midwestern states to accommodate German immigrants. Most states eliminated it at the time of World War 1, because Germany was our enemy.
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DAWN: !) 1913. Why do you jump on the paying taxes part but not on the point that there was no welfare for arriving immigrants? Open borders and a welfare state is unsustainable.
I seriously doubt that data would support your sense that our social safety net, which includes Medicare, Social Security, and a host of other things, including trying to at least retard the process by which the poor, the disabled, the mentally challenged, the insane, and others who for whatever reason aren’t able to “make it” financially in this richest of all countries in history, starve to death, die from little or no health care, freeze from exposure to the elements, ad nauseam, is what is causing problems for the country as a whole, regardless of whether those using it are white, black, old, young, native born or new immigrants. Despite racist beliefs prevalent in the far-right, xenophobic, and white supremacist echo chambers, “welfare” goes to poor white people more than to anyone else.
But let’s hypothesize otherwise: it’s those damned immigrants of the recent sort who are the problem. You do recall the words on the Statue of Liberty, don’t you?
“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.”
Did you get a notice that those had been removed? Erased? Amended or edited in some way perhaps? Maybe an insertion: “unless they’re Muslims”? I missed it. Please forward at your nearest convenience.
DAWN: 2)Indentured servants in US history traded seven years of free labor for the price of passage to the New World; most were given some land, new clothes, and a cow when that time was up. They assimilated at that point. (We have young people now who agree to work on farms in Europe just so they can travel around after they have done their time – different but still the same idea of voluntary servitude for a specified time.)
Not even vaguely on-point. We’re talking about people desperate to survive being exploited both coming and going (you do realize that many such people, even today, get raped financially and often physically by various people both back home and when they arrive, and that servitude often never truly ends. Historically and today, these people do so many shit jobs that “real” Americans don’t want, or that rich Americans don’t want to pay a living wage for. So you have Mexicans who are undocumented immigrants brought here to do the landscaping, the migrant farm working, etc., by the rich who can afford to pay more but are happy to find scared immigrants who will take far less. And you point the blame at the poor immigrants. Big heart you have there, Dawn. But not a lot of political/economic analysis beyond the world of Alex Jones, et al.
DAWN: 3)There is a rich history of racism in US history. No denying that. The Chinese suffered a lot and were not allowed to own land at that time.
Not sure the word “rich” would be my go-to choice next to “history of racism.” And what do you make of that?
DAWN: 4) When Orthodox communities begin to expand exponentially, annexing land, with no intention of assimilation demanding a lot of fraudulent welfare for supposedly single women (married by Jewish law) who are having ten babies each, there is resistance. They are expecting people outside their community to pay for their way of life. Live however you want but don’t expect others to pay for it. Doing that creates unnecessary tension which is always referred to as Anti-Semitic, when it is actually just about money and land. The Amish live secluded lives and nobody gets upset about them because they don’t expect others to pay for their chosen lifestyle. They pay taxes and do not accept welfare. So stop trying to call me names and debate on the issues.
Call you names? I haven’t done so, despite ample temptation. But you’re too easy to destroy simply by asking questions and citing facts.
You’ve spent a good deal of time in ultra-Orthodox Jewish communities? You have documentation of what you describe above? Sounds more like the Russian, Ukranian, and other Eastern European mafias than Orthodox Jews, of whom I’m not a particular fan, by the way. I have not suggested you’re an antisemite, though my may well be. Wouldn’t be a shock given some of your directly-stated ideas. Thus far, however, I just think you’re confused and hateful, perhaps not in equal portions. My sense is that you’ve been led astray by very narrow and narrow-minded sources. You should broaden your reading.
DAWN: La La Land? Obama’s FBI director, James Comey, has acknowledged that the vetting of Syrian refugees is an imperfect science, because the United States is limited in its ability to investigate their backgrounds.
The “vetting” of anyone is an imperfect process (“science” belies the reality of what’s involved). So what’s your solution, Dawn? I’d love to know.
DAWN, quoting James Comey: “If someone has never made a ripple in the pond in Syria in a way that would get their identity or their interest reflected in our database, we can query our database until the cows come home, but there will be nothing show up because we have no record of them,” Comey told lawmakers last year.
The IRC expressed “dismay” when the President announced the goal of resettling 10,000 Syrian refugees.
Well, Dawn, there’s this fundamental issue of being a humanitarian vs. being reasonably protective of the welfare (hmm, not such a bad word in SOME contexts, eh?) of the American people. You appear to care primarily about the latter. I care about both, but I believe that we face far bigger threats from native-born (‘domestic’) and mostly white terrorists on the far-right than we do from Syrian immigrants. Our disagreements are what make horse races, so to speak. But why just pick on the poor Syrians? It’s funny how in the history of repressive and restrictive US immigration laws, you never hear about attempts to stem the tide of northern European, white, Anglo-Saxon, Scandinavian, or German immigration. In fact, laws in the 1920s were changed so that those folks had the best chance of being allowed into the US, while southern and eastern Europeans (lots of Jews in that mix, by the way) had a reduced chance of being allowed to emigrate here.
I wonder what that was all about, don’t you? Read Stephen Jay Gould’s MISMEASURE OF MAN for some answers.
DAWN: This was a report by CNN – which is not considered right wing.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/01/politics/obama-pledge-10000-syrian-refugees-falling-short/
What’s right-wing these days is more and more debatable than ever. Two years ago, I’d have said that MSNBC was a mostly progressive media source for news and opinion. Today, I’d say that the key is to remember that it’s MicroSoft + National Broadcasting Company, and they went almost entirely for Hillary Clinton over Bernie Sanders throughout the entire election/primary season. They’ll be pro-Clinton into November and beyond. That’s no longer makes them even vaguely progressive from where I sit. Dumping Keith Olbermann was MSNBC’s announcement that being too progressive and too honest was the kiss of death. Ditto the NY TIMES’ dumping of Richard Rothstein’s brilliant comments and articles on education. That was around 2002. But see below.
DAWN: Please tell me about the first instance of bilingual education in US because I don’t know and I like to learn new things.
Our host, the eminent historian of US education, Dr. Ravitch, already gave the answer. I’d add that my knowledge of that fact comes from Richard Rothstein’s insightful book, THE WAY WE WERE? In it, he mentions the push in Chicago in particular for German-language instruction that became the first bilingual programs in our public schools. I love to point that out to those who go absolutely crazy at the thought of Spanish-language bilingual education. Yes, to some people’s minds (e.g., yours), not being forced to learn (seemingly instantly) English and banned from speaking one’s native language in public is a sure sign of the decline and fall of civilization as we know it.
Where that sort of garbage comes from eludes me. Lots of immigrants come here, work their asses off for low wages, never learn much or any English, and the actual impact it has on you or me is 0.0; Usually these are first-generation immigrants who come here as adults. They don’t have time to study English because they’re not in school and they’re working like slaves, often at multiple jobs, trying to keep their kids or grandkids alive. Sorry they don’t satisfy your emotional discontent with their not becoming fluent in English. They’d LOVE to make you happy, but they have to be at their third job just now.
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Michael Paul,
Welfare is designed to be a temporary measure for people who truly need help. It is not a life style.
However the Orthodox communities think others should pay for their life choices. The men in these communities spend their time studying the Torah and not working, they father lots of babies but do not support them. They live on welfare for decades. Neighbors resent this.
” At least one-third of the estimated 7,000 Hasidic families in Williamsburg receive public assistance, according to neighborhood leaders.
The benefits, including welfare payments, food stamps and subsidized housing, sustain the families with as many as 10 or 12 children; they fill the cash registers of the kosher supermarkets on Lee Avenue and help underwrite much of the work done by the Hasidim, whether in schools, retail stores or factories. ” http://www.nytimes.com/1997/04/21/nyregion/religion-and-welfare-shape-economics-for-the-hasidim.html?pagewanted=all
The Amish choose to live in segregated communities, read the Bible and have lots of babies but they don’t expect anyone to subsidize their chosen life style. They pay taxes. Neighbors buy their pies and jellies and nobody resents them.
There are many hard working immigrants who are already here and they are trying their best to assimilate. If they are working three jobs and can’t learn English they make sure their children go to school and do learn it. Great.
I am referring to the recent, new and unprecedented influx of Muslim immigrants who are being shipped here by the UN with Obama’s blessing by the tens of thousands. It is a bad idea. Build them safe havens in their own land and stop Hillary from destabilizing any more states. Just look at Germany and Sweden to see how this UN globalist plan is working out. Do you think things are going well there?
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Well, now, Dawn, let’s rush right over to Williamsburg and kick some Hassidic behind! Lazy, rotten welfare cheats. Do they have big Cadillacs and huge screen televisions? You do understand that “at least one-third of the estimated 7,000 Hasidic families in Williamsburg” isn’t exactly breaking the bank. And 50% of the kids at my college received financial aid. But how much? And that was 50% of 500 students, by the way.
I’m sure it’s an UTTER coincidence that you’re outraged by some “lazy” Jews and hold up in contrast some industrious Christians.
And who are those resentful neighbors in Williamsburg, exactly? And everyone near the Amish just loves them? I suspect you’re talking out your ear. Rumor has it that Amish people get hassled and mocked. Americans aren’t known for tolerating people who “dress funny” and aren’t assimilated. You might prefer the Amish to Hassidim, but there are quite a few who have thriving businesses in NYC. Oh, but then that would be because Jews are notoriously money-grubbing! We really just can’t win with you, can we? If we’re not money-lenders, we’re welfare cheats. When you attack Jews, you’re attacking me, and I’m not bar mitzvahed, not religious, speak no Hebrew and virtually no Yiddish. I resent like hell that snooty attitudes of some Hassidim and ultra-Orthodox Jews towards anyone not of their degree of religiosity, and I find their repressive attitudes towards the gay and lesbian members of their communities deeply disturbing. But I won’t stand silent while someone from outside those communities trying to make some segment of the Jewish community into whipping boys for an anti-welfare agenda fueled by an Alex Jones world view.
UN globalist plan? You mean asking the affluent countries who have colonized and raped third world countries for centuries to take some responsibility for the fallout from their capitalistic greed? Works for me, Dawn. Sorry it seems to get your bloomers all bunched up.
There are racists in Germany (surprise!) and in Scandinavia, too. So what? That’s for those people in those countries to work out, just as they have to work out how to assimilate and adjust to the immigrants they accept. Obama’s overall record suggests that he’s been no pal to undocumented Mexicans in this country. That should make you happy. But you’re not too fond of difficult facts.
What would be your fabulous plan to solve all these problems, Dawn? I’ve got a slow night and could use the laughs.
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Do you believe in globalism? Do you think every nation should give up its unique culture to in order to produce global citizens? Do you think everyone would be better off under the regulation of the United Nations rather than their own sovereign nation’s laws? Do you like the idea of Technocracy, which was a utopian idea that was quite popular in 1925, that has been revived and used as a blueprint by Zbigniew Brzezinski?
I know you can’t imagine it, but I was once a very left wing progressive espousing all of the views you defend. I don’t know what changed my thinking. It was gradual, not overnight. I began to read a lot of history. I came to understand who is who in the world of politics and finance and why they do what they do because I read things they wrote themselves including white papers and speeches for audiences of their peers, not the general public. It was a hard pill to swallow that I had been wrong all of those years but to continue in my old mindset became impossible.
You seem to think I am some old cranky bigot who hates young moms on welfare and would love to see everyone who is not a white protestant flag waving patriot deported tomorrow. You don’t know me so please don’t make assumptions. It is unkind and untrue.
Read Technocracy Rising by Patrick Wood and see what you think about his assessment of why things are the way they are right now. The reason I bother to post on this blog is to present the possibility that maybe what we have been told by our unions and our politicians and our media is not the whole truth. Hillary is not the answer. Bernie wouldn’t have been the answer. And Trump may not be the answer. God is the only one who can make any real difference in a person’s life and in a nation’s trajectory. I will leave it at that.
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DAWN: Do you believe in globalism? Do you think every nation should give up its unique culture to in order to produce global citizens? Do you think everyone would be better off under the regulation of the United Nations rather than their own sovereign nation’s laws? Do you like the idea of Technocracy, which was a utopian idea that was quite popular in 1925, that has been revived and used as a blueprint by Zbigniew Brzezinski?
That’s a lot of questions for one paragraph. But most of them are dependent upon undefined terms (“globalism,” “technocracy,” “global citizens,”) that require definition before I would consider answering them. Brzezinski used “technocracy” as a blueprint for WHAT? And last I checked, he’s been out of the government since early 1981. He’s 88 years old. What’s your theory as to what he’s up to now? And is he part of the vast global Jewish conspiracy? A member of the Bavarian Illuminati? One of the Gnomes of Zurich? It would help to know which plot against humanity we’re talking about.
But seriously, you don’t answer many of my questions, then you pose a raft of your own and expect me to respond. A bit unfair, wouldn’t you say?
DAWN: I know you can’t imagine it, but I was once a very left wing progressive espousing all of the views you defend. I don’t know what changed my thinking. It was gradual, not overnight. I began to read a lot of history. I came to understand who is who in the world of politics and finance and why they do what they do because I read things they wrote themselves including white papers and speeches for audiences of their peers, not the general public. It was a hard pill to swallow that I had been wrong all of those years but to continue in my old mindset became impossible.
Haven’t given a thought as to who you once were, who you are now, or how you got to here from there. But I’m sure that you found material that convinced you that your new view is the truth, just as you believed the old one once was. That’s hardly unusual. I’m a little more consistent: I still see the world as divided into the vast majority of us who aren’t rich or powerful, and the tiny minority who have way more money and power than anyone should or deserves to have. The latter is always trying to increase their share of both while reducing the minimum they have to leave for the rest of us so as to avoid being hung up by their heels in the public square.
DAWN: You seem to think I am some old cranky bigot who hates young moms on welfare and would love to see everyone who is not a white protestant flag waving patriot deported tomorrow. You don’t know me so please don’t make assumptions. It is unkind and untrue.
I haven’t a clue how old you are. I actually figured you for fairly young, if I gave it any thought at all. You are bigoted, and I base that strictly on various statements you’ve made. You don’t appear to have it in for moms or young people in particular. You do seem to have a HUGE issue with people on welfare. You seem more biased against non-Christians. Those aren’t assumptions, Dawn: they follow from what you write. I don’t put words in your mouth: I read what you say. I’m not being unkind. If I were, this conversation would have ended after the first couple of things of yours I read and the first “unkind” response I might have offered were I taking the gloves off. I’ve not come close to doing that and won’t: it is, after all, Diane’s blog, and I do attempt to be a decently-behaved guest.
DAWN: Read Technocracy Rising by Patrick Wood and see what you think about his assessment of why things are the way they are right now. The reason I bother to post on this blog is to present the possibility that maybe what we have been told by our unions and our politicians and our media is not the whole truth. Hillary is not the answer. Bernie wouldn’t have been the answer. And Trump may not be the answer. God is the only one who can make any real difference in a person’s life and in a nation’s trajectory. I will leave it at that.
I’ve not been told anything by “my” union because I haven’t been in one since 2000 and was only in that one for two years. They didn’t have much to say to me, and I was less than thrilled with how they handled the one situation where I really needed them to go to bat for me.
It’s hardly insightful to state that politicians and the media aren’t being truthful. I figured that out in 1964, when I was still in junior high school. Not much has happened since then to make me more sanguine about either group. Quite the contrary. I think Bernie Sanders is the first honest politician I’ve heard in my adult life.
Telling me that Hillary “isn’t the answer” is hardly revelatory. Thinking that Donald Trump MIGHT be the answer is delusional. And we won’t be able to find out whether Sanders as POTUS would have been a good start towards making things better. As he’s said from Day 1: We, not I. That already makes him a quantum leap different from the rest. And he means it. Thing is, he’s not done and neither are we, disappointing as this week has been given what might just possibly have happened. But a political revolution of the sort he’s been advocating will take decades. Expecting some “Leader” to hand us vast, positive change on a platter is an infantile fantasy in which I no longer indulge.
As for “God,” I have no knowledge of any such being. And I haven’t spent the first 66 years of my life sitting around waiting for imaginary beings to make the bad people stop being bad and the decent people to start being good. That is a childish fantasy in which I’ve not indulged since I was 11. Your mileage may differ, and clearly does.
I suggest we leave things here. There’s simply not sufficient common ground or sense of what’s real and what’s illusion for us to speak constructively to one another.
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Michael, you have the patience of a teacher.
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MPG,
Well said.
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Thank you, Christine and Diane.
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All three of you have written me off as delusional because I present a belief that you do not agree with (God as Creator and Savior of the world) and facts that do not support your world view.
The fact that you think that Brzezinski is some old guy who hasn’t had any effect on anything since 1983 is a delusion.
Here is a 2009 interview on Democracy Now where Amy is interviewing investigative journalist Allan Nairn. He has this to say:
Obama’s top adviser is Zbigniew Brzezinski. Brzezinski gave an interview to the French press a number of years ago where he boasted about the fact that it was he who created the whole Afghan jihadi movement, the movement that produced Osama bin Laden. And he was asked by the interviewer, Well, don’t you think this might have had some bad consequences? And Brzezinski replied, Absolutely not. It was definitely worth it, because we were going after the Soviets. We were getting the Soviets.
If 2009 is not a recent enough post on Brzezinski, here is an article about him By Nick Gass on 10/05/15 02:37 PM EDT Brzezinski: Obama should retaliate if Russia doesn’t stop attacking U.S. assets
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/10/zbigniew-brzezinski-financial-times-op-ed-obama-retaliate-russia-214438
Here is another article July 02, 2015 – 03:36 PM
Former US National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski believes the West should stand up to Russian President Vladimir Putin in Ukraine. “We should make it more costly for the Russians to use force,” he tells SPIEGEL ONLINE in an interview.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/interview-with-zbigniew-brzezinski-on-russia-and-ukraine-a-1041795.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzIcbhT6AMg
Charlie Rose introduces his talk as an extraordinary conversation with three foreign policy giants, former Secretary of State, Henry Kissinger, former National Security Advisor, Brent Scowcroft, and National Security Advisor, Zibigniew Brzezinski.
Since it was by his own admission Brzezinski’s idea to fund, support and train with American tax dollars and military intelligence, the Mujahadeen, which everyone admits at this point has morphed into Al Queada and now ISIS, I would say he has had an incredible effect on our world in 2016. He is still active. He is not sitting in a nursing home. If he offered to speak or teach a course at any university, they would jump at the chance.
His daughter Mika is on MSNBC everyday. His son, Mark Brzezinski, was the United States Ambassador to Sweden from 2011 to 2015.
So just because you haven’t really been following what Brzezinski is up to just leads to one conclusion that our media is not doing a good job at bringing these things to the attention of the public at large.
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Dawn,
I know you think I blocked you but I didn’t.
I was at the doctor for a checkup
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Dawn, FYI, I am very aware of who Mika B’s daddy is. I also know who Anderson Cooper’s mom is. Does that mean that Gloria Vanderbilt is running US foreign policy, too?
Not to shock you too much, but I think we’re all wet in Eastern Europe, too, and that whoever is helping to lead Obama into screwing around there is a twisted fool, as is Obama for agreeing to it. Lots of neo-Nazis in those countries, including the Ukraine. Not a lot of friends to the Jews there, either. And Putin, for all his warts, isn’t wrong for the most part there. Nor is Trump for holding similar views. Of course, maybe their motives are all evil and based on greed. But that doesn’t make them wrong and the US has NO BUSINESS there. Unless, of course, we want another Cold War followed by. . . something worse.
That view won’t win friends and influence people here, particularly not among neoliberals and Hillary Clinton fans (which do not comprise disjoint sets).
But I also followed up on some of your things from last night and ran repeatedly into one of my least favorite conspiracy theorists: Charlotte Iserbyt. Along with Beverly Eakman, you could not find anyone who posts about the vast Soviet/Carnegie conspiracy to “dumb down” Americans through public education for whom I have less tolerance or respect than those two. They are the educational versions of Rush, Alex, and Glenn.
So while we might find some commonality on US foreign policy, I suspect for the most part we’re not using the same sources nor overall do we have the same world view, particularly on the roles of gods and religions in human affairs. I won’t even consider trying to dissuade you, but at least give me the courtesy of not trying to make it an issue here. You’re in an unreceptive crowd and to continue to bring that up is to merely be proselytizing. We all know you believe in Jesus Christ as your savior. Can we move on? Or is that impossible for you?
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Diane,
If you think Brzezinski is insignificant why won’t you post my comment about him? People can choose to ignore it if they agree with you. There was nothing in my post about conspiracies or organizations and every source I linked to is considered left wing. I am just curious.
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Ah, paranoia: isn’t it great, Dawn?
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Thank you Diane for posting my comment on Brzezinski. Please let MPG know that you have deleted some of my posts and blocked some of my comments over the past few days as well as keeping my comments in moderation mode for hours (understandably when you are busy of course) because I am on “that” list. So my curiosity was not the result of paranoia but simply past experience. He’s not on the list so he doesn’t know what that feels like.
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