The Boston Globe: Why Test Scores Should NOT Be Used to Evaluate Teachers

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1. LeftCoastTeacher says:

   June 30, 2016 at 8:39 pm

   I think your second to last paragraph should be particularly appealing to average folks, especially anyone who attended or sent children to public school, grades 3 through 8, since the NCLB.

   Three cheers for Dr. Ravitch! Standard bearer of truth and educational justice.

   Reply
2. annat says:

   June 30, 2016 at 8:50 pm

   Thank you from Boston! I am appalled by most of the responses in the Globe. Uninformed or misinformed, ignorant teacher-bashers. But, sadly I am not surprised.

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   • Vale Math says:

     July 1, 2016 at 7:24 am

     Lots of ignorant “experts” on teaching out there. But, hey, I had a gall bladder removed, so that qualifies me as the de facto source for all things medical. It would be nice if these teacher bashers and Reformers actually stood in front of a classroom before telling us how to do our jobs.

     Reply
   • SomeDAM Poet says:

     July 1, 2016 at 8:40 am

     I’ bet that there is some psychological aspect with many (if not most) of these people– that they believe they were somehow “wronged’ by a teacher or teachers somewhere along the way and are now trying to get back at teachers and schools in general.

     It’s simply not possible to reason with someone like that.

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   • Mamie Krupczak Allegretti says:

     July 1, 2016 at 9:19 am

     Poet,
     I’ve often thought that might be the case. But I also think there is a lot of misogyny and hatred of children in play as well. Why are some of the lowest paid jobs – elementary teachers, daycare workers, etc.? Why are so many women and children in poverty in this country? Why do women, on average, make less money than men? Teachers are an easy target in many ways.

     Reply
3. Middle school teacher says:

   June 30, 2016 at 11:18 pm

   Beautifully written! Succinct, persuasive, logical, and compelling. Thank you Dr. Ravitch.

   Reply
4. Christine Langhoff says:

   June 30, 2016 at 11:36 pm

   Hooray!

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5. John Ogozalek says:

   July 1, 2016 at 5:41 am

   Yup, I’ve read these ideas before here but it’s always nice to see them summarized so efficiently -then directed like laser surgery towards the brains of the Globe’s editors.

   It’d be wonderful to have you speak at one of the nation’s top journalism schools. Too many editors need this sort of help understanding our public schools.

   I have my theories as to why that’s the case. But it just is.

   Reply
6. RageAgainstTheTetsocracy says:

   July 1, 2016 at 8:08 am

   Some classic comments from peanut gallery:

   “While any approach to performance management can be poorly implemented, the central premise of Ravitch’s argument, test-based evaluation of teachers is unfair and invalid, is utterly ridiculous. Can anyone seriously believe that a test — which nearly everyone agrees is a suitable measure for how well material has been learned — is somehow not also a measure of how well that material has been taught? Like nearly everything Ravitch writes on the subject of public education, her argument here is nothing less than a flight from accountability.”

   “Don’t use test scores to judge teachers. Don’t use anything to judge teachers. All teachers are equally wonderful. All teachers are above average.Diane Ravitch used to believe in judging teachers but she had a religious experience on the road to Damascus. The scales fell from her eyes and now she knows better. Some might call her an apostate but really, that would be judgmental.”

   Fasle assumptions, false dichotomies, strawmen, and outright ignorance are what we’re up against. This is an issue that makes superficial sense to non-teachers and the only convincing approach would be send both of the commenters above into a 7th grade classroom in Dorchester, Roxbury, or Mattapan for a year or two.

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7. RageAgainstTheTetsocracy says:

   July 1, 2016 at 8:36 am

   High rates of absenteeism, distracted behaviors, student apathy, non-compliance, anger and defiance, mental illness, low parental expectations, child neglect and abuse, cognitive impairment, and wide ranging levels of brain development are all reasons, not excuses, why good teaching is not always reflected in student test scores.

   Ignored in this very narrow argument are the other equally important goals of a public education that reach beyond reading, writing, and arithmetic: social growth and development, citizenship, character development, decorum, and preparation for adulthood.

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8. RageAgainstTheTetsocracy says:

   July 1, 2016 at 9:02 am

   How could anyone defend this aspect of the VAMing of teachers (from the article):

   “Seventy percent of teachers do not teach subjects that have annual tests. Schools could develop standardized tests for every subject, including the arts and physical education. But most have chosen to rate these teachers by the scores of students they don’t know and subjects they never taught.”

   Many TEACHERS are being RATED using the SCORES of STUDENTS THEY DON’T TEACH!!!!!

   Let this one fact simmer in every anti-teacher brain, fighting against the natural logic and common sense that insists that this simply can’t be true.

   Teachers rated on scores of students they do not teach.
   Your brain says, “impossible”
   The USDOE says, “YES!”

   Teachers rated on scores of students they do not teach.
   Your brain says, “impossible”
   The MDESE says, “YES!”

   Teachers rated on scores of students they do not teach.
   Your brain says, “impossible”
   BPS says, “YES!”

   I teach in NYS and our school district just adopted an APPR policy that has almost every teacher in our district being evaluated (at 50%) using the pooled test scores of five different Regents exams. So the kindergarten art teacher’s evaluation will be based ion the scores of 9th grade algebra and biology, 10th grade global and US history, and 11th grade ELA students.

   Your brain says, “impossible”
   And the system says, “we don’t care”

   Reply
   • dianeravitch says:

     July 1, 2016 at 9:16 am

     Rage, if you read the letters following the article, you see that many readers don’t give a damn that 70% of teachers get rated on the scores of students they don’t teach.

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   • Mamie Krupczak Allegretti says:

     July 1, 2016 at 9:25 am

     Rage,
     I personally know of a few schools in NY that have adopted this plan or will in the near future. It raises an interesting question. If TIPs (Teacher Improvement Plans) are needed down the line, how will the teachers who have nothing to do with these subjects show “improvement.” For example, how will the 12th grade English teacher show that he/she is improving students in 11th grade English????? How will the Kindergarten teacher show improvement in helping those 10th grade global studies students?

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   • RageAgainstTheTetsocracy says:

     July 1, 2016 at 9:48 am

     Diane
     Yes I read the comments and quoted two of them below. Evaluating teachers using test scores of subjects and student that they do not teach is the epitome of reformster insanity. I’s like captain Quege’s obsession over the stolen strawberries. We must find those “bad” teachers! We know they’re out there and test scores will find them.

     MKA
     According to my district administrators, their analysis of historical Regents test score data indicates that all teachers in the “pool” will end up being rated “effective” as the risk for all 160+ being TIPed is minimal. Odds are all this will go away by 2017 – 208 as the new BOR will probably recommend the abolishment of the truly damaging aspects of Cuomo’s Regents reform Agenda. Hopefully the legislature will agree.

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     • dianeravitch says:

       July 1, 2016 at 9:50 am

       The article in the Boston Globe will NOT appear in the printed newspaper. So, if you know anyone in Massachusetts, email them a copy. The editor told me this article was the top trending piece online, but it still won’t be in the newspaper.

   • SomeDAM Poet says:

     July 1, 2016 at 11:36 am

     Many TEACHERS are being RATED using the SCORES of STUDENTS THEY DON’T TEACH!!!!!” ..and in subject areas they don’t teach.

     Yes, that pretty much sums up the insanity.

     This is not just your ordinary nonsense. It is Alice in Reformerland grade nonsense.

     It’s actually downright hilarious that the politicians responsible for this stuff are incessantly whining about the absence of critical thinking skills among today’s graduates.

     These people are so far down the rabbit hole that they don’t even realize how dumb they appear.

     Reply
     • dianeravitch says:

       July 1, 2016 at 11:40 am

       My advice to those politicians who love testing: take the student tests and publish your scores.

   • RageAgainstTheTetsocracy says:

     July 1, 2016 at 11:49 am

     Poet
     maybe you could cast the re-make:

     Alice: Metaphorical character for all those who saw the Kool Aide bottle labeled, “Drink Me”

     White Rabbit?
     March Hare?
     Caterpillar?
     Queen of Hearts?
     Mad Hatter?

     Reply
9. Paul Bonner says:

   July 1, 2016 at 10:33 am

   Don’t forget that the quality of these tests is questionable as well.

   Reply