To Readers of This Blog:
I have been consistently even-handed in the Presidential race in dealing with the candidates of the Democratic party. I oppose the Republican party candidates because I don’t agree with their corporate-friendly agenda and their positions on social issues, as well as their embrace of privatization as the solution to the problems in public schools.
As between the Democratic candidates, I have supported neither. I have published posts critical of both Sanders and Clinton. Neither is especially good on the issues that matter most to supporters of public education. Clinton said when campaigning in New York state that she would not want her grand-daughter to opt out of the tests, and she waffled on the issue of charter schools. Sanders voted for the Murphy amendment to the “Every Student Succeeds Act,” which would have retained high-stakes accountability under federal control (fortunately the amendment did not pass). Sanders also is confused about charter schools, having said that he favors “public” charter schools but not “private” charter schools, not realizing that all charter schools are publicly funded but privately controlled. Education has been a non-issue.
I like Bernie’s ideas (and I share his outrage), and I like Hillary’s experience.
What I don’t like is the passionate denunciation of one or the other of them, by them or by their partisans.
The overwhelming majority of denunciations are directed at Hillary. Some of our readers are as vicious towards her as Donald Trump is. If you read the comments, you would think that Donald Trump is much to be preferred over Hillary because she is allegedly dishonest, corrupt, a war-monger, a tool of Wall Street, etc. The demonization of Hillary is often times over-the-top, angry, and hateful.
This internecine warfare is not admirable. It should stop. It helps Trump. One candidate will emerge from the Democratic convention in Philadelphia. It will be the candidate who gets the requisite number of delegates. It will be either Bernie Sanders or Hillary Clinton. When the convention chooses the candidate, I will support that candidate.
I will not sit home. I will not vote for a third party candidate. I will not write in the name of someone else. That is irresponsible. Throwing your vote away is a vote for Donald Trump.
I am afraid of Donald Trump. He is not qualified to be president. He knows nothing about foreign affairs or domestic issues, other than those that affected him as a real estate developer and businessman. His statements during the campaign inflame passions, divide Americans, and make us a laughing stock around the world.
Does Trump really plan to deport 11 million undocumented immigrants? How will he round them up? Will he expand the Immigration and Naturalization personnel so they can go door to door, searching out families to deport? Will they be placed in massive detention camps pending transfer? Will babies born in the camps on American soil be citizens? This proposal is as mad as anything else he has said.
Does Trump really expect to build the Great Wall of America across the U.S.-Mexican border? Will it be 50 feet high? The New York Times recently estimated that such a wall would cost $26 billion. The idea appeals to Trump’s angry constituency, but it is almost as mad as his idea to deport 11 million people, most of whom are gainfully employed in agriculture, restaurants, and the hotel industry.
Will Trump really ban all Muslim immigrants from entering the U.S.? Does that include foreign emissaries and heads of state? How will Customs officials know which international arrivals are Muslims? What will prove that a person from an Arab country is Muslim, not Christian or Coptic or some other religion? Do they need religious identity cards? How will we know if they are telling the truth? How many predominantly Muslim nations will break off relations with the U.S. to express their indignation at this show of religious bias? Will we lose all our allies in the Middle East?
Will Trump impose tariffs on goods manufactured in other countries? Will he ignite a trade war that raises the prices on everything made elsewhere? This won’t be good for consumers.
Does Trump really believe that climate change is a hoax? Will he gut programs that aim to mitigate the actions that accelerate climate change? Will he remove environmental controls on auto emissions and other sources of pollution?
Will Trump’s nominees to the Supreme Court overrule Roe v. Wade? Will abortion once again be illegal? Will Trump punish women who get abortions, as he said during the campaign, and will he punish doctors who provide them?
Will Trump release his tax returns before the election? How will his followers react if it turns out that he doesn’t pay taxes and hasn’t paid taxes for years? Trump has already said that he tries to pay as little in taxes as possible. What if “little” means none at all, or only a tiny sliver of his income?
Will Trump eliminate all controls on the purchase of guns? He won the endorsement of the National Rifle Association, which fights any restrictions. Will we all be armed in the Trump era?
As for education, Trump has said that he doesn’t like Common Core but has given no indication that he knows what it is. He has said that he loves charter schools, but has given no indication that he knows what they are. To whom would he turn for advice about education? The only name I have heard is Dr. Ben Carson. Scary.
But setting aside matters of policy and prudence, there is the question of character. Donald Trump is everything that we teach children not to be. He is a braggart, he ridicules others, he is a bully, he blows his own horn constantly. He cozies up to white nationalists, insults Mexicans as rapists and murderers, treats women as sex objects, and calls anyone he doesn’t like “losers.” If he were a student, his teacher would struggle daily to correct his behavior and his treatment of others. He makes up demeaning names for those who dare to compete with him, such as “Lyin’ Ted,” “Little Marco,” “Crooked Hillary,” “goofy” Elizabeth Warren. I don’t recall what he called Senator Sanders, but I am sure it was demeaning, meant to brand him in the public eye as unworthy.
Trump peddles conspiracy theories without regard to fact, such as his statement on the day of the decisive Indiana primary that Ted Cruz’s father was somehow implicated in the death of John F. Kennedy and his resurrection of discredited rumors that Clinton aide Vince Foster had been murdered. One of his favorite attack techniques begins by saying, “I am not going to bring up the subject of….Jeb Bush’s low energy. No, I won’t. I really won’t mention his low energy.” Now he is attacking Hillary by talking about her husband’s infidelities; one assumes that The Donald does not have clean hands on this subject.
Donald Trump belongs in show business, not in the White House. He is not fit to be the President of the United States, with the well-being of the nation and the world in his hands. Do we really want him in charge of our nuclear weapons? He is so quick to fly off the handle, that the thought of him with that much weaponry is frightening. He can always say, “He did it first,” as he said when he posted an unflattering photo of Ted Cruz’s wife on Twitter and when he began slinging mud at Hillary and Bill Clinton. But that’s the response of a five-year-old (as Anderson Cooper said on CNN), not a mature and reasonable adult.
If Trump is elected, I fear for the future of our nation and the world.
And that is why I will not join in the vicious quarrels between partisans of Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton. I refuse to give ammunition to Trump for the campaign. Sanders and Clinton—and their allies–should focus their energies on defeating Trump, not on attacking one another.
I will support the person who emerges as the Democratic candidate against Donald Trump. I want that candidate to be strong. I want that candidate to lead a united party. I want that candidate to be elected President of the United States. I will not stay home and I will not write in another name and I will not vote for a third party. When the election is over, I will continue to advocate for policies and programs that improve education for all children and the well-being of American families.
Thank you for your sanity and wisdom, Diane!
Thank you for clarity and reason. So much is at stake and petty politics hide that fact way too well.
Both presumptive nominees are going to cause irreparable damage to the country and their parties.
The responsible thing to do would be to force the major parties to nominate better people. If that means encouraging a viable third party candidate, like Mark Cuban, so be it.
Thank you! My sentiments exactly!
Thank you! I feel like Democrats seriously need this wake-up call!
Well, Liz, then say hello to President Trump.
I ain’t Liz but “hello” anyway!
So let’s say we all band together and vote for the “lesser of two evils”, again, and HRC appoints a Broadie, or someone from the DFER as the Sec of Ed? Starts wars, paves the way for fracking, gives her buddies on Wall St a boost so they can crash the economy again? Who is being irresponsible then? Us for not demanding a better candidate?
Why do our choices have to be so lousy? Why do the Dems get to shove awfulness down our throats and assume they’ll get our vote because the other option is worse?
I agree, Liz.
Hillary will likely appoint someone from the DFER wing as Secretary of Education or reappoint John King. That is an awful and fearsome prospect.
But in the end, we choose between two major party candidates. And one of them will be elected.
Diane, I read this very carefully because I have a lot of respect for you. The problem is in one statement you made about the candidate who gets the most delegates. I think your readers understand that the delegate issue or rather the super delegate issue is rigged. That means that Hillary could get the nomination when in fact more individuals chose Bernie. That makes me so angry that I feel like, as do many others, that there is no real democracy. In that case, why not allow the people to get what they deserve (Trump). If Trump is even an option, which he apparently is, then we are not ready for a great nation. We must learn once again that we have to fight for and earn greatness. Maybe the nation needs to feel first hand what it means to suffer in order build a great nation. Hillary is despicable and enough democrats understand that to split the party as is happening. Sadly there are so many incredibly ignorant people that they are flocking to Trump on the other side. Maybe the Hillary people need to wake up and push back against the twisted system of super delegates. People should vote for who they believe in not who they thing will win.
Why do you believe more people have voted for Sanders than for Clinton?
Janet,
The rules were established before the campaign.
Ha, and now some of us get it, there is no real democracy. True. If popular votes for delegates or electors mean nothing, there is no democracy. I know all about Hillary and her ties to wealth but I relate in a generational way to Hillary. Her stance on issues affecting society and the times she grew up in mirror my views. She’s not as on target about inequities in society as Bernie but she believe me, she thinks in the same way that he does. Yes, I’ll support Hillary and hope that she does a good job for us because for all the public service she has given, she deserves a chance and hey, she’s a woman. I support that 100per cent.
at Oped, Deena agrees with you AND MORE…
http://www.opednews.com/articles/The-US-has-become-for-all-by-Dave-Lefcourt-Coup_Hegemony_Policies_Power-160525-894.html
It is a rigged system, but it was never intended to be that way. The forefathers had no idea what society would be like in 200+ years. The problem is that the “rules” need to be be changed (but I don’t know if they can be). It was a very good system before cars, population growth, news media etc. It just doesn’t work anymore and the public feels defeated every single election cycle. It is rigged and it stinks!
Don’t give our forefathers so much credit, Liz. They were very concerned about not letting the uneducated massses have any real voice in government. (The superdelegates seem to be today’s method of protecting the election process from the common man.)The genius of our forefathers was in providing a system that allowed for change/evolution and that provided checks and balances .
I agree 100%. Sanity must prevail, not partisanship, even from within the same party.
Was pleased to hear that you were a Bernie fan too. Was hoping when I saw the headline of your post that this would be the case. Thank you for your thoughtful commentaries, not only on education, but on issues of national interest.
Ann Hammond,
I will support either candidate. Neither is perfect. Either is 1,000,000 times better than Trump
Well said!
I get it…you say less about Bernie than anyone else so drew my own conclusion.
Thank you, Diane. You said what so many of us have been thinking.
Thank you, Diane. That was a very thoughtful and thorough review of reasons why Trump should not be president. More than his arrogant clownishness, though, we need to fear his supporters if he were elected. He’s waged a campaign of hate and will reap the reward thereof, including from his supporters when they do not see the fulfillment of his abhorrent promises.
If we had a strong Democratic candidate, Trump would be no issue – he’d be laughable and we’d sail into the White House.
My concern is that Hillary simply isn’t that candidate. The things that people have said about her aren’t “insults” or “attacks”, they’re true. She has served on the board of Walmart. She does have deep ties to Monsanto, private prisons, Big Pharma, TBTF banks (especially Goldman Sachs), Haim Saban, Eli Broad, etc. She has engaged in a lot of war with little plan for minimizing civilian casualties or what to do once we’ve broken a country (Iraq, Libya, Honduras, for instance). She did broker a giant arms deal with Saudi Arabia just after they made a substantial donation to the Clinton Foundation (which said arms are now slaughtering people in Yemen and elsewhere). These (and others) are facts, not insults. I suppose many still feel she’s better than Trump, and perhaps there’s an argument to be made there. But we shouldn’t have to choose between the supposed “lesser” of two evils (which is still evil). I’m sorry, but this year I’m voting for someone, not just against someone else. I would love for that someone to be the Democratic nominee, but if the Democratic nominee is Hillary, I can’t vote for her in good conscience.
The “vote Clinton or else Trump” meme is a logical fallacy, the False Dilemma Fallacy. Polls done this far out are of little consequence, and the number of groups Trump has permanently alienated make a Replutocrat victory all but impossible unless there is major voter suppression and electoral fraud, or if people are so disgusted by the corruption and gaming of the process that they refuse to participate, another major form of voter suppression that receives to little attention. The lies politicians tell have little effect on their political opponents, but a much greater effect on voters and policy fights, the destruction of Acorn being a good example.
Gee, your “good conscience’ trumps the good of this country. I get it ( and I love the pun)
When Trump holds the office that Lincoln and FDR once held, we will all celebrate people of ‘good conscience” who were blinded by the voice i their heads which said: “hey YOU are a GOOD girl!”
Dienne,
Everything you say is true, and I believe Hillary will surround herself with Obama’s education advisors (she already has). But the alternative is President Trump. If you are okay with that, that’s your choice.
Trump is a bigger danger than people realize because the policies in question are not actually his, they are nothing new, coming from various places on the fringe of the right wing. As we know, he has no deep knowledge or experience on any of the things he spouts off about, making him entirely dependent on the existing status quo of the Replutocrats and the American deep state for his message and supposed policy positions. In other words, he is the perfect front man for them, a loud, obnoxious pseudo populist with the ideal personality disorders for the task, ones which make him incapable of perceiving the extent to which he will be played like a fiddle by his own side who will have all but complete control over what information and analysis he sees. His personality disorders and previous lifestyle also make him incapable of handling the pressures of a 24/7/365 job like the POTUS, another deficit that will be exploited by the existing power structures. His would be a pass through presidency, he would be nothing more than a sock puppet. The weak factionalism of the deep state will not be a significant factor in this. The usual factionalism within congressional staff and cabinet members will also not be a factor. No president has the “magic wand” powers that are ascribed to them by the lame stream media and their opposition within government. http://billmoyers.com/2014/02/21/anatomy-of-the-deep-state/
Trump has no center. He says whatever is expedient at the moment. He was a “birther” who demanded Obama’s birth certificate yet won’t produce his own tax returns (he says, “because they are being audited,” but the IRS says that is no reason not to release them). What is he hiding? He is hiding how successfully he has leveraged every accounting trick to pay little or no taxes. You can’t actually produce a treatise on what he believes because he has only one core belief: he is better than everyone else, and he can say and do whatever he wants. He lacks a democratic disposition, a willingness to listen and learn. Anyone who says “he did it first,” should be in pre-school, not the White House.
Thank you, Diane.
Agreed with most of what you said. As you know, I have personally pleaded with Bernie and his campaign to reach teachers with a message that demonstrates that he knows about the war on public schools, and the assault on the profession and on teachers. I am so disappointed, as we all are.
I ,too will vote for Hillary if he loses the nomination…which is a shame because he represents the middle class, and Hillary is a shill for the extremely wealthy oligarchs who have already taken over our legislature.
It is also a shame, because Bernie Sanders is a great man, a good man, an authentic person and he will shine as our president. He represents the people. She is more-of-the-same, only this time, a female avatar for her benefactors.
But Trump must lose.
I am appalled by Trump, and astonished that our citizens are so ignorant and hood-winked by television, that they cannot grasp how dangerous this he is, and how totally unqualified he is for such a position. They seem to think that this is some reality show competition. They are adverse to FACTS. The IGNORANCE out there is monumental… even among intelligent, educated people.
Such ignorance of what it takes tor run a nation is mind-boggling, but when that ‘critter’ constantly reveals who he is, talking about himself in the 3rd person, always self-promoting, lying and back-tracking on what he said only a minute ago, ogling women and revealing his ‘inner mongrel’, I want to cry.
What does it take to convince people that someone is untrustworthy?
I cannot fathom how people want him to lead a nation, to represent us, when I realize that he is a serial betrayer (CNN uncovered the total frogs of his ‘university’ last night). He won’t let us see his income tax because he knows what it will show us about his true wealth , and also what he does to evade taxes, and to what PACs and ’causes’ he gives his charity.
.
Finally, I am appalled by the utter foolishness of people who stick up their noses, and pout, saying “if I can’t get my choice, I will give that fascist ignoramus MY VOTE, BY NOT VOTING. Nah, nah, na-nah-nah!
This aint’ a high school election!
I am exhausted by people I know, family, friends , neighbors, who expect me to sit their smiling, and to quietly ‘accept’ their opinion — as if it were verifiable reality,– when they declare: “I can’t vote for that socialist, or that bitch, so I will vote for Trump.”
Their surprise and disappointment is astonishing, when I ARGUE, and they point out that it was only ‘their opinion” and then go on to TELL me about how they ,like me, are ENTITLED to their opinion.
Where did this entitlement come from?
Freedom of expression is not freedom of speech, and if people chose to rail on about their rights to utter such nonsense, devoid of evidence, then they will be talking to my hand.
I have never been this disappointed in people that I trusted– beyond the charlatan principals and superintendents who ran the schools –into the ground.
.
I am glad you wrote this about Donald Trump because I fear for the demise of the planet with the possibility of this self centered showman at the helm. Winning is everything for him. But really, does he have a clue what he would do if he ever got there? Or is that really beside the point as just getting there is his aim. If he did United States would rapidly descend to the status of a third world country and we will all be looking towards Asia and Europe for our future instead, hopefully without Pearson.
Patrick from Colombia
Thank you for your clarity, wisdom and passion. Arlene Chasek
Sent from my iPhone
>
I will not demonize Trump because it is a personification of America’s racism, inequities and lies. This society created someone like him. Of course he should not be President any more than Gates, Bloomberg, Broad should not be running public education. We have a lot of things out of place in our society. I like Bernie and Hilary even though I know campaign promises are worthless in the real scheme of things, ask Barack. I think we as a nation have to dig deep and determine how a candidate who spews hatred and violence is so beloved by so many people. That’s the key issue, in a society that professes to be free, equal, democratic, is he really who we are?
“I will not vote for a third party candidate. I will not write in the name of someone else. That is irresponsible. Throwing your vote away is a vote for Donald Trump.”
And that is the type of thinking that keeps both the dims and the rethugs in power.
NO!, It’s not “irresponsible” to vote for third party.
NO!, It’s not “throwing your vote away”.
NO! Voting third party is not a vote for Donald Trump. Why not say it’s a vote for the dim candidate. (What you’re suggesting is the non-existent supposed “Nader 2,000 effect” that has been completely debunked).
In my way of thinking, Diane, you’re wrong in your thinking on this. And what you have stated is just as wrong as to say that we measure anything whatsoever in the teaching and learning process and that the COMPLETELY INVALID NAEP scores mean anything at all when the results are chimerical and “vain and illusory”. My hokum detector has been screaming since I opened this post.
Thank you. The fact is that, depending on the poll, somewhere between 30 to 40 percent of the country is fed up with the establishment of both parties. There are more independents than either Republicans or Democrats. Currently, most of those independents tend to vote either Republican or Democrat because they believe the “throwing away your vote” or “a vote for a third party is a vote for __________” lines. So we’re “stuck” with the status quo. But it’s ludicrous to think that a third or more of the country can’t change the status quo. If everyone who says they don’t like either of the parties would actually vote third party, we’d have some real power. But instead people give into fear and helplessness (think Martin Seligman and his dogs who wouldn’t escape the electrical shocks even when they could – “learned helplessness”). There Is No Alternative. Resistance Is Futile. You Must Obey.
Obedience has never been my strong suit.
“it’s ludicrous to think that a third or more of the country can’t change the status quo. If everyone who says they don’t like either of the parties would actually vote third party, we’d have some real power”
The problem is that “independents” are not a coherent group with interests similar enough to cause them to vote en masse for any one candidate. Most independents have partisan leanings, i.e. they tend to vote either Republican or Democrat, and Republican-leaning independents probably have some core beliefs that are fundamentally incompatible with the core beliefs of Democrat-leaning independents. Some voters are independent because they think the Democrat party isn’t far enough to the left. Other voters are independent because they think the Republican party isn’t far enough to the right. A lot of independent voters have voted for Trump, and a lot of independent voters have voted for Sanders.
Independent voters may rally around the notion that both major political parties are bad. But they will not rally around a single candidate.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them” — Albert Einstein
Duane and Dienne,
I agree. Unfortunately, I think it will be a long time, if ever, before we can have a president who is not a millionaire or a billionaire. Both parties are puppets of the same master. The problem is that I just don’t think this country is in dire straits enough for the majority of people to have the courage to vote for a third party candidate. It may be coming, but we’re not there yet. In a sense, Bernie is really a third party candidate even though he is running on the democratic ticket. He had to because third party candidates are basically excluded from the process (Ex.: Ralph Nader was barred from political debates, etc..) and because of the enormous amount of money it takes to run. It’s sad to say but I think Janet who posted at 9:19am may be right in the sense that we are going to have to continue to choose the wrong people until we have the courage to really turn things around.
Exactly Duane… !
What do you propose, Duane?
Diane,
Jill Stein knows what the game is. I chatted with her at the UOO meeting in February. She, like you, is an intelligent, energetic, friendly down to earth type who understands things as they are. She knows she has no chance of winning the presidency this year. The object is for every election cycle to get the Green Party on more and more state’s ballots. The main way to do that is to garner “X” percentage of the vote so that the party automatically has a spot for the next election. Yes, it is a long haul strategy, AND it needs to be done. The more people that vote third party the more chance we have at breaking the duopoly. If even half of those eligible voters who sit out, many times due to not having any real choice such as Trump/Clinton, would vote third party we can begin to break out of this insanity in which we find ourselves.
Diane, read the Green Party’s education platform. Does it or does it not concur with your beliefs? If so, and more so than Clinton’s or Trump’s then. . . . Now I know that a presidential election shouldn’t be a one issue thing but if you read more on the Green Party platform I think you may find that a lot is more in line with your thinking than either of the oligarchic duopoly’s platforms. but that’s for you to decide, not me.
Hope that helps.
Duane,
I hope your MRI goes well.
I love the Green Party’s platform. I wish the Green Party education plank were inserted into the Democratic party platform. I am sick of the Democratic party’s support for the Republican party’s ideas on education.
I stand by what I wrote this morning. The election will give us a new president: It will be either Donald Trump or one of the two Democratic candidates.
And that is why we all vote and let the chips fall where they may.
MRI (hour & half in the tube) went well, thanks!! Will know results in a week or so. I’m just getting around to getting some of these body parts taken care of. And when you think one is taken care of they find another-ha ha! At least I have insurance.
Sorry, forgot to include the link (in a hurry, have an MRI scheduled at 1:00)
http://www.gp.org/social_justice/#sjArts
IMO, Sanders should pack it in
…and run with Jill Stein. 🙂
Concur. Could garner some serious votes and begin the break from the oligarchic duopoly’s hold on everything (which is actually the monied interest’s hold on everything).
Diane,
I understand your point of view, too. My husband absolutely will NOT vote for Clinton or Trump. He will vote for Jill Stein. He will vote for Jill Stein as she is closest in her political beliefs to his. I see his point and I also see your point. I, on the other hand, have considered your position, and I still don’t know how I will vote. In the beginning of the race, many thought Bernie didn’t have a chance, but look how far he’s come. What if everyone who liked Bernie but thought he had no chance to win actually voted for him? I know many who like Bernie but won’t vote for him because they think he has no chance. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Why do some teachers refuse to administer inappropriate tests to their students knowing the consequences of job loss, etc? They are responding to a higher ideal or purpose. Perhaps this is why so many will not continue to vote for the status quo knowing full well what they consequences may be??
“Self-fulfilling Behavior”
In jail we ourselves toss
So others can not jail us
And nail ourselves to the cross
So others can not nail us
“I refuse to give ammunition to Trump for the campaign.”
Too late, Diane. Hillary’s entire career did that. And her campaign vs Bernie is exactly what made his supporters go rabid and merciless on her. If she was honest and fair, this wouldn’t be happening (in more ways than one.)
In any case, only voters in swing states will have to consider whether they will #HoldTheirNoseForHillary or do something else. And by no means was Bernie required to go easy on her, he did that more than enough…
“Clinton’s Loss is all Your Fault”
The table has been set
For those who vote for Stein
A loss will surely get
You blamed for all of time
Correct on all fronts Duane. Voting for the lesser of two evils still yields evil in the end. Furthermore it completely diminishes the importance of the entire voting process. When we cast a vote for a candidate it should mean that the person whom we are voting for represents the ethics, values and vision that we as voters deem necessary for the advancement of society on a collective level. Instead, some have adopted the strategy of voting for someone who is completely absent of any of the traits we should be demanding from our representative politicians because the other candidate in question is perceived to be a worse option. This is exactly what keeps the two party monopoly machine trucking full steam ahead. Wake up people a vote for an R or D are votes for the same just look at the origin of the money that flows to candidates of both major political parties and you will find that all the big players are donating to both Republicans and Democrats. It has been this way for the last 50 plus years or so and it will remain the same until people start to vote green. Anyone who says voting green is a throw away vote is simply asking for more of the same and I will gladly pass on that offer.
RealOne
If Sanders has shown us anything it is that what people were telling us was politically impossible just a year ago is not.
I used to work in an R&D group for a high tech company and there were always people who said “it can not be done” — not because there was any legitimate reason that it could not be done, but simply because they lacked the imagination to do it. I learned to ignore them.
I’d really like to see Sanders join up with Jill Stein, since the Green party is already on the ballot in most of the important states and could probably get on the ballot in the remainder with the help of Sanders.
This year is actually the perfect storm for a third party run because most people dislike both Trump and Clinton (indeed many people actually “hate” them) and are hungry for a candidate who actually represents them and not the corporations.
Sanders and Stein could give both Trump and Clinton a run for their money. In fact, I think they could actually win if people were willing to set aside this crazy “lesser of two evils” strategy, which is actually a very poor strategy since it has led to the downward spiral we are currently on.
I was about to make a parallel with:
Carter/Anderson = Reagan
Gore/Nader = Bush
Clinton/Sanders = Trump
But I wanted to get my facts straight first, and came up with this (Perot is in there, too):
http://www.salon.com/2011/04/04/third_party_myth_easterbrook/
Food for thought. I don’t like the status quo anymore than you do, Poet.
I think it’s worthy of comment that we’re willing to maintain the status quo (which could use a LOT of fixing) in order to avert a catastrophe that we never thought would be possible.
I agree with you , but that Trump scares me to death, and I fear that Bernie and Jill would just take votes from the democratic nominee HRC, and give out nation to Trump… who will be the LAST president if he gets the impulse to show Putin how tough he is, an starts a nuclear war.
” Sanders also is confused about charter schools, having said that he favors “public” charter schools but not “private” charter schools, not realizing that all charter schools are publicly funded but privately controlled. Education has been a non-issue.” MA Commissioner Chester is saying the urban charter schools are great and all the states/chiefs should sign up with Jeb Bush…. But then the Commissioner of MA said “art centered charter schools or chinese charter schools not so great”… I don’t know what he meant by “chinese” charter schools that teach chinese??? but I just didn’t like his comments. He declares he is “neutral” on charters but the Governor and Ed Secretary are pushing them so he cannot be neutral.
Jean,
Can you elaborate on this: “But then the Commissioner of MA said ‘art centered charter schools or chinese charter schools not so great'”? Chester rejected the Pioneer Valley Chinese Immersion School’s request to further expand before their next renewal, but I don’t know what the above statement refers to. Is it an actual Chester quote? If so, when did he say this?
I agree that he is not neutral on charters, though he probably isn’t quite as pro-charter as Secretary Peyser or Governor Baker.
I feel the same way you do. Thanks for expressing it so well.
What a tremendously conciliatory and bold blog. Mnay thanks
and this, re IGNORANCE: from Deena Stryker, at Oped news:
“US Election: Ignorance in Charge”
http://www.opednews.com/articles/US-Election-Ignorance-in-by-Deena-Stryker-Accomplishments_Advertising_Consumer_Dreams-160525-173.html
“Republican despair over the fact that Donald Trump has managed to become, for all intents and purposes, the Republican nominee for President, shows one striking thing: for one man, one vote, to ensure enlightened governance, democracy has to be backed up by a very high quality compulsory education system.
“Donald Trump won more primary votes than any other American candidate ever, forcing the Republican establishment to anoint him as their candidate, against their better judgement. But if we limit voter education to television reality shows and video games, we should not be surprised if anger over government failings leads a lot of ordinary people to vote for the candidate who encourages them to carry a gun. Donald Trump didn’t become a billionaire by being a couch-potato or toting a gun, but his message is clearly designed to appeal to such voters.
“That message is the equivalent of Hitler’s appeal to disenchanted 1920’s and thirties German voters, who longed for past glory, and it’s a stinging indictment of a century of compulsory eduction. Television was already a wonderful means of mind control, and when its appeal began to fade, video games and smart-phones came along to pick up the slack. Technology opens up a world of unlimited information if one cares to look for it, but obsessive use of computers and its offshoots leaves little time for independent thinking, which requires a silent environment without too much visual stimulus.
“In mid-nineteenth century America, education was seen as the key to democracy: voters needed to master the three r’s (readin’, writin’ and ‘rithmetic) to make meaningful decisions in the voting booth. But at some point, the decision was made to invest in advertising in order to sell more stuff, rather than in schools, filling the coffers of manufacturers while emptying minds. Most progressive analysis since the end of World War II has focused on the ever-growing role of publicity in consumer choices; but advertising also plays a crucial role in the willingness of voters to pay attention to what goes on beyond their neighborhood or town – not to mention their ability to do so meaningfully.
“The American population can be divided into two main groups: an overwhelming majority that hardly knows there is a world beyond our borders, and a very small minority – probably no more than 10% – that pays attention to international developments.
“That is why a year-long presidential campaign – longer than those of any other country, by far – holds Americans spell-bound, mindless of wars or natural disasters occurring elsewhere. And when someone like Donald Trump comes along bragging about his commercial – not academic, scientific, artistic or spiritual – accomplishments, large numbers of voters, especially men who have seen their dreams of success (those promised by television ads) fade away, leaving as only recourse with which potentially to alter reality access to a gun, literally rise up, as we have seen at countless rallies, giving him the primary votes needed to become the candidate of a Republican Party whose 2012 candidate was the milk-toast Mitt Romney.”
I like your comment and agree with it. Well said.
On right night, reps from Clinton and Sandars campaign speak on education, panelista re unimpressive though. http://cef.org/cef-presidential-forum/
and a tidbit about our non-choice if Bernie loses the nomination. http://www.opednews.com/articles/FOIA-Reveals-SoS-HRC-Promo-by-Joan-Brunwasser-Activism_Activism-Environmental_Climate-Change_Ecoactivism-160525-296.html
Hillary is ok with fracking “The irony: fracking has only reached commercial-scale levels in the US, Argentina, Canada and China. Everywhere else, due to either geology or low oil prices, it has failed. So in some ways, GSGI was a mission failed. But it does show that this type of activity could continue under a Hillary Clinton Administration, just as it did under Obama’s. And that is nothing but bad news from a climate change and ecological perspective.”
I remember when Republican voters were told not to vote for Tea Party candidates because they would lose to Democrats. Many Republicans didn’t listen and did vote for candidates who lost in the general election.
At first. And then they started winning. And then took over the Republican Party.
At some point, if the Democrats keep acting like moderate Republicans, they can expect the votes of people who believe in moderate Republicans.
Trump scares me, but so does the fact that Hillary Clinton is owned and operated by Eli Broad and friends who no longer support the democratic institutions like public schools that made this country what it is.
If all it takes to be a Democrat is to be slightly less right wing than a Republican Party candidate who has more or less embraced the entire agenda of the John Birch Society, then we have truly lost our way.
So, far the Clinton rep has focussed on her role in IDEA, NCLB. Preschool, college loan are major topics so far. Signature issue for Clinton is childcare costs. Moderator is pressing for detail…
http://cef.org/cef-presidential-forum/
Given the volatile nature of domestic and foreign threats, my view is that, by refusing to support the candidate of the Democratic party in November, the readers here must accept the consequences of a victory by Donald Trump. The results will not be benign. History reminds us of the dreadful consequences of the second term of George Bush, with an unthinkable loss of innocent lives in Afghanistan and Iraq. To my mind, the false equivalency posed by opponents of Hillary Clinton is disingenuous at best.
I’m agreeing with you; as I stated there is a lot of anti-feminist garbage and also anti-intellectual that permeates the comments about HRC. We call her by her first name because we became familiar with her in the White House…. just like Mrs. Nixon was called by her first name or Mrs. Bush was called Barbara etc…. or Lady Bird…. that was pre-trump … I don’t think there is anything in the calling of HRC by her first name other than that; she was “familiar” and I don’t ever ever want to be that familiar with a Humpty Dumpty Trump… People on average don’t know what it takes to be a woman and have a professional career where you rise above the typical/average in order to move to the upper reaches of policy; the exact qualities it took for ANY woman to rise — that is what she is criticized for …. You don’t get into those halls of academe or the legislature by being Mrs. Good Too Shoes. Is that “right” in a moral sense? Well it always bothers me that when women get into those roles they will act the same way the arrogant male acts with power; I don’t see that in Elizabeth Warren because she has maintained her integrity.
To my mind, the false equivalency posed by opponents of Hillary Clinton is disingenuous at best.
jeanhaverhill@aol.com
Dr.. Ravitch: Well said. I am a Bernie supporter big time but what you have posted is very much the views which I have expressed herein.
It is appalling that people will not vote for either Bernie or Hillary because they are not their chosen candidate.
I UNDERSTAND the frustration of this whole process, regarding Bernie especially but PLEASE do not vote for Trump by not voting at all just because he is not your chosen candidate.
George W was elected and in my view this country will NEVER be the same again. We, our country and our planet have suffered irreparable harm
AND
if Trump should get elected the process that George W started will be the final blow to our posterity, the U. S. and the world.
Imagine Trump with his hand on our nuclear arsenal – just for starters.
His reputation in other vitally important countries is or should be well known. The divisiveness here in our own country is played out at his rallies.
SCARY beyond belief is Trump and all he stands for.
I fully intend to vote for Bernie in primary and Hillary in general election.
Diane is right…we Demos need to turn the temperature down…By present rules,
Hillary will be the nominee…let’s democratize for 2020 and end the super delegates.
I recall 1968 and the hard left voting for Eldridge Cleaver in belief that a
Nixon presidency would bring a revolution: instead not voting for Humphrey
brought us thousands of American deaths and millions of Vietnamese lives.
We need a united Democratic party to defeat Trump. Thanks for being a voice
of sanity
Marek,
Thanks for your comment. Don’t forget 2000. Votes for Ralph Nader brought us eight years of George W. Bush.
Even if you continue to assume that President George W. Bush won the 2000 election through some fluke of the election process (whether via Ralph Nader, the entire state of Florida, or something else) or some fraudulent means, he still only won office for a single, four-year term.
The voters had the chance to elect someone else in 2004, and they chose to re-elect President Bush with majorities in both the popular vote and the Electoral College.
More democrats voted for Bush than voted for Nader. Try again.
Nader did not bring us George Bush. Al Gore did that all on his own.
The Supreme Court gave us Bush.
Don’t blame Nader for Bush. Te Supreme Court gave us him and then the people re-elected him in 04 after the “Swift boaters” were through with Kerry.
Over 200,000 registered Democrats in Florida voted for Bush in 2000. Was that Ralph Nader’s fault?
If you plan to vote for Hillary because the thought of Donnie as President is just beyond the pale, for all the reasons Diane and others mention, then so be it, and your arguments might well be valid. I may yet vote for her, though as a NY resident I have the benefit of being able to vote my conscience without having to worry about accusations that I’m personally responsible for President Donnie.
But please, please, don’t insult my intelligence by talking about Hilary’s “experience” in the Senate, where she was a carpetbagger — what relationship, aside from that with Goldman Sachs, did she have with NYS before she decided we should anoint her? – who voted for the Iraq War, and otherwise did nothing there. And please don’t try to sell me on her foreign policy credentials as Secretary of State, in which she almost single-handedly turned Libya into a failed state and ISIS platform, brought a looting, Neo-Nazi coup to Ukraine, and a coup against a democratically elected government in Honduras. I won’t even mention donations to the Clinton Foundation by repressive governments that preceded her approval of arms sales to them.
Almost everything this woman has touched has gone badly wrong, so while one might credibly argue that her election will forestall the Donnie Apocalypse, anyone who actually thinks that this woman will improve the lot of the 99% – something she has never, ever done, anywhere – is deluding themselves.
Tell me that we must save the Republic by preventing a racist, sexist, clownish Donnie from landing in the White House, and I’ll listen respectfully.
Tell me that Hillary belongs there on the merits, and you’re deluding yourself.
I typed too fast…sentence should read that voting for Cleaver and
not for Humphrey cost us thousands of American and millions of Vietnamese lives.
Demos need to unify or we will be in Trump led nightmare.
I wholeheartedly agree with you. I know when Obama was nominated the HRC group said they needed “time for carrhesis”… we don’t have that much time with Trump out there every day. I voted for Humphry, voted for McGovern but my younger nephews voted for Ross Perot (the year that RFK was assassinated) and that was very sad… I couldn’t convince them otherwise (not to vote for Perot).
In case anyone missed Lizzie last night
http://www.businessinsider.com/elizabeth-warren-donald-trump-2016-5
“Elizabeth Warren slams ‘small, insecure’ Donald Trump in most fiery takedown yet!”
Elizabeth Warren took on Donald Trump on Tuesday night in a fiery speech that centered on Trump’s past openness to a downturn in the real-estate market. http://www.businessinsider.com/hillary-clinton-trump-housing-crisis-2016-5
In a speech at the Center for Popular Democracy’s annual gala in Washington, Warren slammed the presumptive Republican presidential nominee over comments from 2006, when Trump said he was “excited” for a potential market downturn so he could buy real estate at a lower cost.
“What kind of a man roots for people to get thrown out of their house?” the Democratic senator from Massachusetts said. “What kind of a man roots for people to get thrown out of their jobs?”
“She continued: To root for people to lose their pensions, to root for two little girls in Clark County Nevada to end up living out of a van — what kind of a man does that? I’ll tell you exactly what kind of a man does that. It’s a man who cares only about himself. A small, insecure money-grubber who doesn’t care who gets hurt as long as he makes a profit.
“Warren also criticized Trump’s promise to repeal the financial regulations implemented under the 2010 Dodd-Frank Wall Street reform bill, questioning whether the real-estate magnate “could even name three things about Dodd-Frank.”
“Donald Trump is worried about poor little Wall Street,” Warren said. “Let me find the world’s smallest violin to play a sad, sad, song.”
She added that Trump was “kissing the fannies of the poor Wall Street bankers.”
Since unleashing on Trump in a series of Twitter battles earlier this year, Warren has emerged as one of the Democratic Party’s most unrelenting and highest-profile Trump critics. http://www.businessinsider.com/elizabeth-warren-trump-tweets-2016-5
“At a commencement speech at Suffolk University on Saturday, the senator reminded students about Trump’s high unfavorable rating among female voters.
“How’s this speech polling so far?” she asked. “Higher or lower than Donald Trump’s unfavorable numbers with women?”
“Trump has fired back extensively, targeting Warren’s heritage and what he called a lack of “guts” to run for president
.http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-elizabeth-warren-tweets-2016-5
“Some observers have noted that Warren’s pointed jabs at Trump demonstrate the senator’s readiness to serve as a potential presidential running mate, a role that is often defined by attacking the other party’s nominee. But not all Democrats are thrilled with that prospect.
“In an interview earlier this week, Democrat Harry Reid, the Senate minority leader, said he would “yell and scream” to stop Warren’s nomination — or the nomination of any other senator from a state in which a Republican governor would make an appointment to fill the vacancy. “http://www.businessinsider.com/harry-reid-elizabeth-warren-vp-sherrod-brown-2016-5
Diane, you have eloquently stated your partisan Party affiliation beliefs.
Your statements about Trump, while speculative and fear mongering, typify the depth to which American political discourse has sunk.
Trump has been using his talents as a showman and entertainer and is doing a great job swimming in the current cesspool of political campaigning we all must endure.
I look back on the slander, mistruths, and unsavory tactics of the Democratic Party when trying to defeat George Bush and then successfully denouncing and demeaning McCain, Palin, Romney and Ryan. Even after losing out to Bush the hatred and venom still spewed forth from the Left Supporting Democratic Party of Andrew Johnson and Robert Byrd.
You articulation of your perception of what is “best” for america is what you are entitled to.
I wonder why so many Democratic supporters now find themselves uncomfortably facing the very same tactics they have honed to such fine perfection, especially with the witting (and lucrative) support of the Social Media moguls?
What would be best for America, from my perception, is a return to the principles that made us what we want to be:
Pursuit of the unalienable rights endowed by our creator.
Self-reliance and acceptance of personal responsibility.
An economy based on Free Enterprise where success and profit are goals to be achieved.
Unfortunately I believe we will have to see things get much worse, maybe catastrophic, before we can undo the sewage we are swimming in.
SUPPORT THE ARTICLE V Convention to Save our Constitution.
I can understand your frustration with T-bag, but calling third-party voting an act of irresponsibility undermines the very democratic values that your party claims but fails (in cases like superdelegates) claims to uphold.
T-bag has wild and ambitious campaign promises, but he is not running for monarch; he cannot create law. His lack of willingness to compromise will, if he gets the presidency, relegate him to signatory status. Remember, even if Bernie loses the nomination, the surge of progressiveness he has engendered will filter down the ballot.
Hillary, on the other hand, is experienced in abusing a position of power for oligarchic aims. She supports charter schools, stake takeovers, and will not come out against overtesting. She has not come out to support public ownership of the airwaves or other transmission media, full healthcare, descheduling of marijuana, a full and dramatic shift to renewable energy, stakeholder voting on CEO compensation, the development of community capital, opening public presidential debates to third-party voices, and a whole host of real progressive issues.
This is how the two parties maintain a core of concurrent ideology while playfully sparring over social issues–they cooperate and coordinate to drown out progressive ideas.
While I personally feel that it is important to vote for the candidate who most closely espouses your values, one of the values I hold is that everyone has the right to vote as they please so I don’t begrudge you for voting Democratic, nor will I label that vote as irresponsible. I expect the same from someone with as much social and cultural capital as you.
Aaron,
Vote as you choose or stay home. Obviously that is your choice, and you don’t need my permission. But whatever you do, consider the consequences.
I read an excellent O- Ed in Foreign Policy Magazine this week and it makes many of the same points: “How To Save America from Donald Trump”
https://mail.google.com/mail/?tab=wm#label/Foreign+Policy+Magazine/154e8022a19bf9d2
If the race for the White House comes down to The Donald and HRC, then staying home or voting for a 3rd party candidate will not save America.
Between The Donald and HRC, I will vote for HRC even if I don’t like her lack of a proper education policy and her links to corporations and billionaire oligarchs many of us have learned to hate and detest.
I’m convinced that The Donald is much more dangerous to the United States and its people than HRC will ever be. I think HRC is the lessor of two evils by far. She is not the best candidate and, yes, the system is rigged, but The Donald must not become president. You might want to click on that link to Foreign Policy Magazine and read that Op-Ed piece if you can. I already read it and now I’m blocked from reading it again by FP’s paywall. I think FP allows you to read one free piece a week.
“Between The Donald and HRC, I will vote for HRC even if I don’t like her lack of a proper education policy and her links to corporations and billionaire oligarchs many of us have learned to hate and detest.” I agree with Lloyd…. I’ve seen enough of the elections– Ralph Nader, Ross Perot, George Wallace, Goldwater etc.. I voted for McGovern and for Hubert Humphrey…. One time I had to take a republican ballot to vote for Ed Brooke in MA and couldn’t vote for my own favorite democrat so he lost out in that election; I think I learned from that experience. What Lloyd is saying is very true to my way of thinking…. I have emailed back and forth with Duane and I know he is optimistic about 2020 (so is the “Green Education” party group — but those rules have to be changed BEFORE the election of 2020 ; The only other way is to get in under the rules, currently, and then fight like hell inside once you are elected to change the rules to make them more fair. I don’t think Duane agrees with me on this but I will leave that discussion for another place and time — ).
“The mainstream media now want to explain Trump’s rise in the polls and Hillary’s decline as a product of, as the article below puts it, “her inability to consolidate the independent-leaning, young, liberal supporters of Mr. Sanders. The most recent wave of national surveys shows Mrs. Clinton winning just 55 to 72 percent of Mr. Sanders’s supporters. She’s faring far worse among young and liberal voters than one would expect.”
Baloney. Hillary Clinton isn’t catching on because she doesn’t understand what’s happening to America. She’s campaigning as she did in 2008, and as her husband did in 1992 and 1996. She’s ignoring the huge wave of anti-establishment populist fury about a government bought by the moneyed interests, who now have more of the nation’s wealth than in over a century. She has to become part of the movement for fundamental change — offering bold measures to reverse widening inequality and to protect our democracy from big corporations, Wall Street, and the billionaire class. And she has to believe it.”
Robert Reich
And there lies the problem for those of us who saw the Clinton disasters unfolding as the economy boomed due to an unparalleled financial bubble . Those of us who saw a Democratic president pushing Republican policy . Those of us who saw the pain of Clinton trade policy, that would devastate the American Manufacturing sector and eviscerate the middle class .Those of us who saw deregulation of the Telecommunications industry delivering a mouth piece for Oligarchy. Those of us who saw Welfare reform with out increased economic opportunity as a disaster waiting to unfold for the poor .Or Financial deregulation leading to an unrestrained casino on Wall and Broad and witnessed another financial bubble in real estate. Those of us who saw the dropping of the capital gains rate far out weighing the small increase in marginal tax rates on the wealthy .
Those of us who saw Obama as hope and change . Only to watch him become Clinton re-dux . Then to bring it home !!watched an Obama administration pursue an education policy that the Business Round Table and the Republicans have been pushing for decades. Watched democratic elites from Clinton/Obama administrations and campaigns jump on Board the Oligarchical assault.
Watched a Trade Policy with the overwhelming support of Republicans and always just enough democrats to see it pass (what a dog and pony show). Even a Healthcare policy, a Heritage model that Republicans only hate because Obama proposed it. Much like the Supreme Court nominee he is now proposing who the Business wing of the Republican party would love to have.
I worry a lot about Hillary’s neo-con approach to Russia pushing NATO to it’s borders.I worry about a Right Wing CIA Coup with neo NAZI elements in the Ukraine. The Ukraine is a strategic Russian access to the Baltic sea with a large speaking Russian minority in Crimea . That is the equivalent of a former Warsaw pact Coup in Canada blocking access to the St. Lawrence Seaway. Would we tolerate that? I do not care what Ashton Carter thinks! Hillary ……I do worry more about the lunatic in Korea . I worry about pursuing a new arms race in “small battle Field grade nuclear weapons ” , time to tell the Union of Concerned Scientists to reset the CLOCK.
That said are dismal democrats marginally better than Republicans .Yes if you prefer a slow death . Politically being retired I do.
So given this choice Clinton or Trump, given a choice between an advocate of Right To Work who fights unionization at his non union hotel, given a choice of a Right Wing Supreme Court for decades ,given a the choice between a phony who knows how to play to the legitimate fears of the White working class, fears he has no intention on alleviating except to say that Americans make too much money ,while he outsources all his manufactured goods, but fears that have been dismissed by Democratic elites for decades. Its a no brainier I will not vote for Trump.
I will try to persuade all my friends and acquaintances to not vote for Trump . Can I bring myself to vote for Hillary ,short of putting Warren or Sanders on her ticket, highly unlikely, what can she say to convince me she has my back . .Luckily I live in NY and will not have to face that till November first.
Hair-Frau Drumpf could have said: “Ban shredded cheese, to make america grate
again.” But nooooo, he had to prove a point. “The blurring of history does NOT
illuminate the future.” His make america great “again”, SHOCKS the history
“marshals”. Can anyone deny the functioning elements of imperial colonialism,
are based on racism, xenophobia, and misogyny?
The “Queen of the Perma-Smirk”, offers the time-tested, master-client relationship,
dripping in the rhetoric of client concern. Vote for me, and I’ll set you free.
Those in the same boat, won’t bore a hole in it, even if they’re just sitting on the
rail.
Just What Were Donald Trump’s Ties to the Mob?
‘No other candidate for the White House this year has anything close to Trump’s record of repeated social and business dealings with mobsters, swindlers, and other crooks…
From the public record and published accounts like that one, it’s possible to assemble a clear picture of what we do know. The picture shows that Trump’s career has benefited from a decades-long and largely successful effort to limit and deflect law enforcement investigations into his dealings with top mobsters, organized crime associates, labor fixers, corrupt union leaders, con artists and even a one-time drug trafficker whom Trump retained as the head of his personal helicopter service.
Now that he’s running for president, I pulled together what’s known – piecing together the long history of federal filings, court records, biographical anecdotes, and research from my and Barrett’s files. What emerges is a pattern of business dealings with mob figures—not only local figures, but even the son of a reputed Russian mob boss whom Trump had at his side at a gala Trump hotel opening, but has since claimed under oath he barely knows.”
Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/05/donald-trump-2016-mob-organized-crime-213910#ixzz49mM19FIx
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook
We need his tax report ASAP. I have a feeling there will be a huge backlash because I think he pays little or nothing. One year he actually did pay nothing. He has a raft of lawyers to go over his return with a fine tooth comb.
The construction Unions in NY for the most part are squeaky clean in terms of Mob influence . Their are several that are not and I am sure that every developer in NY has had to deal with them (ie. teamster Concrete operations before getting busted.Some of the carpenter locals as well. ) . Trump has built Union almost exclusively because the scope of his projects left him little choice . The smaller non union contractors are thoroughly corrupt from wage theft to hiring undocumented immigrants to a devastating safety record.
There is plenty in the Trump business record to go after with out depicting collective bargaining as mob influenced. Most Americans go bankrupt because of medical issues . When a billionaire goes bankrupt multiple time it is to screw others that had been doing business with him or workers he owed wages to.
Dumb Donald is pretty sharp when it comes to looking out for Dumb Donald. He has also been quite adept at screwing his business associates and the Municipalities that he owed taxes to. The question is would you buy a used car from this huckster or better yet a Business degree. Buyers remorse is quite assured.
Trump is ignorant, arrogant, narcissistic, obnoxious, and unfit to lead the nation but magnificently fit for the market system which is killing most of us, our public schools, and the planet. Yes, he’s scary. But, how scary is Hillary? I woud argue that Hillary is scary for different reasons, namely her career cronyism for billionaires and long track record of terrible judgement on domestic and foreign matters. Hillary is scary for her close 35-year friendship with the anti-public Waltons and Eli Broad. Hillary is scary for her close connection by marriage to Goldman-Sachs(her son-in-law)which paid her $675K for 3 speeches she refuses to let us read while still claiming to be “fighting for us.” Hillary is scary for supporting the crime bill identifying black urban youth as “super-predators” in the 90s. She is scary for supporting the anti-gay Defense of Marriage Act and then continuing her opposition to same-sex marriage for the next ten years until public opinion shifted so far in favor of gay marriage that it was finally safe enough for her to support it. Same could be said about her long refusal to oppose the Trans-Pacific Pipeline threatening natural disasters until very late in the game and it was falling in the polls, again no risk to her brilliant career. She supported the ugly coup in Honduras despite its murderous rampage against dissidents. She famously gave a speech in the Senate in 2002 endorsing Bush’s war in Iraq despite the bogus evidence supplied, obvious to anyone who looked closely, about which Colin Powell later admitted he lied and totally fabricated the evidence for his UN speech. She continues to give the Netanyahu Govt. carte blanche and unlimited support despite its violent occupation of the West Bank and strangulation of Gaza provoking international condemnation and a growing movement against it. Ok, maybe folks already know this sad record of the “lesser of two evils.” Here’s what I propose: All Hillary people who appeal to non-Hillary people to vote for her b/c Trump is so scary and dangerous should announce right now that we are forming a movement to stop Pres. Hillary from enacting what Hillary did before, insisting that she lead a robust presidential campaign to tax Wall St and the Billionaires, to treat Palestinians as if they count as much as do Israelis, to put teeth into the toothless Paris Accords on global warming, to raise the min. wage immediately to $15/hr nationally, to make all public colleges tuition-free, to push relentlessly until a single-payer free health-care system is in place here in the richest nation on earth as it is in all less-wealthy other advanced societies, to assign federal marshals to all abortion clinics under violent attack and to vigorously push back the last 20 years of laws restricting access to abortion rights, to use federal taxing revenues to build affordable housing so that no public school in this wealthy nation has kids who are homeless, to end the standardization and privatization of our beleaguered public schools. I can be convinced to vote for Hillary, really. I have to know that we’re consolidating around the above platform and will fight for it at the convention, during the election campaign, and immediately after for as long as it takes. This could mean using this blog and the NPE network as an organizing tool to coalesce pressure on Pres. Hillary. It will also mean campaigning against the two teacher union chiefs who forced Hillary down the throats of their 3 million members, in the hope of replacing them with real labor leaders who organize the millions of teachers to finally step in to save our schools. I can be convinced to vote for Hillary.
“Trump is scary, but so is Hillary” gives the impression that you believe there is an equivalent here, yet you call the man by his last name, but call the woman by her first, which for me, indicates a difference in the way you think of a woman running for office. As for your litany of complaints about her, no such liist of misdeeds are offered for Trump, which undermines the moral weight of your positions, and renders them merely partisan. But, the fact is we live in a representative democracy. You don’t get to vote on every piece of domestic and foreign policy, so the best you can do is carefully appraise the character of the candidates, while examining your personal biases.
“…yet you call the man by his last name, but call the woman by her first, which for me, indicates a difference in the way you think of a woman running for office.”
Oh come now! Have you paid any attention to how they present themselves? At every speech they have their logos everywhere: “Hillary for America” or “Trump”.
Ira Shor,
I agree with you. I did not write a post endorsing Hillary. I wrote a post endorsing whoever wins the Democratic nomination. If it is Hillary, then we have to keep up the pressure to get real change in every area of policy where it is possible. And that depends on electing better people for Congress, who are in a position to keep up the pressure.
Even if not scary, she’s incompetent, at best: can anyone on this site point to a single progressive achievement on her part, especially when put up against the very destructive policies she has not only supported, but helped put into place?
There’s her seat on the Walmart Board, her crony commodities trades, her botched health care efforts, support for NAFTA, repeal of AFDC, repeal of Glass-Steagall, passage of a Telecommunications Act that concentrated media ownership. And that’s long before she destroyed Libya and supported a coup in Honduras as Secretary of State.
Hillary has admirable qualities: she is intelligent, has remarkable perseverance and a thick skin (and I do sympathize with her over the hateful, vicious misogyny that is directed toward her, though that in itself is not a reason to support her) but what has she ever accomplished that has improved the lives of working people in this country?
Donnie, as we all know, is many, many awful things, but the Clinton’s bear some direct responsibility for where we find ourselves politically right now: their willful destruction of the left/labor/New Deal wing of the Democratic Party, their opportunistic selling out of Democratic constituencies, their turning the Party over to Wall Street – all things continued by Barack Obama – have led directly to the disgust and abandonment that people are feeling. If she loses in November – a real possibility, not because Drumpf is an appealing candidate, but because she is a weak and out-of-touch one – it will be all on her and her apparat, and no one else.
Vote for her if you like, or if you must, but be ready to protest – teachers especially, since she is guaranteed to side with so-called reform – after she takes office, because she will be, with some exceptions, pretty awful.
I won’t vote for Trump but I won’t have Hillary believing she has support for her policies that actually take action against my interest economic, political, education related. Doesn’t a vote mean you support her agenda. This isn’t as if I disagree with a position or two of HRC. I disagree with almost everything except a few crumbs on a social issues here and there. If she rides in on Bernie votes then she thinks she has our approval for her platform. Yes the NEA, AFT head cheerleaders should be ashamed. They supported HRC and HRC doesn’t support AFT, NEA agendas. HRC is fighting against us. How does that make any sense?
“Trump and Hill” (after “Fire and Ice”, by Robert Frost)
Some say the world will end with Trump
Some say with Hill
From what I’ve seen of Dumpf
I hold with those who say its Trump
But if it had to perish still
I think I know enough of war
To say that for destruction, Hill
Can also score
And so can Bill
Better than my Donnie and Hill redux. DAM, I bow to your skill.
If Donald Trump’s lawyers followed the TAX Code and he ends up paying little or nothing, why is that wrong. Our “representatives” have long practiced forging loopholes, excuse me, tax breaks for individuals since the IRS started. My father always taught me, why pay the IRS money that they are not supposed to collect by their rules?
Why does HR Block advertise that they will find those loopholes, ahem, Tax Breaks.
So Mr Trump is guilty of not paying taxes he didn’t owe?
Jim,
Most people would consider it unfair on its face if a man who has an income of $800 million a year pays no taxes. If you are ok with that, that’s your right. If Trump is okay with that, he should release his tax returns. Why doesn’t he?
Because they may show that he makes far less money than he claims to make.
FLERP!: good point.
Either way, Mr. Trump wouldn’t match the [expressed] expectations of some of his followers.
😎
Agree completely.
I voted for Bernie in MA.. but I don’t think I ever went “rabid ” or “merciless” on HRC as someone here claimed. On the contrary, I do point out to people that a lot of the garbage I hear is anti-female and a good bit of it is anti-intellectual. In this world it is important to know that neo-liberals really THINK they are improving things for the country and that the change(technology) is inevitable. It is up to people like me to convince them otherwise. But treating them with derision or contempt is not going to do it; that is what I’ve been complaining about when the ed commissioner treated parents and teachers with contempt. Commissioner Mitchell Chester says “constituents are impervious to facts” and the neo-liberals see us/me in that fashion — I have a different set of facts from the commissioner … most of the “neo-liberals” are believing that technology hyper-marketed is going to save the world (or at least make the U.S. dominate all the other countries — that is their only definition of success).
Thanks to Dienne for noting Hillary presents herself as “Hillary,” not my invention. And Trump’s glaring faults are being splattered across every media outlet 24/7, hardly worth discussing b/c they are deep, ugly and obvious. Hillary is the real trouble in this election b/c it takes a Trump to make her look acceptable. I’m dead serious that I’m willing to vote Hillary if we consolidate into a force to hold her feet to the fire after Nov. Pls recall that Obama immediately appointed the Wall St crooks to run the Treasury Dept after he won in Nov 08; he got right to work for the billionaires after promising “hope and change” to the rest of us. After this Nov., with H as Pres., it will be impossible to enforce any Platform that comes out of the July Dem Convention, which is why Dem insiders are willing to let Bernie appoint Cornell West to this committee–it has a short shelf life. The only way to discipline any leaders above is to have an organized opposition below. Not much sense in wishful thinking that H will do the right thing once in office–she’s rarely done the right thing when it’s counted most, and won’t, unless we from below raise hell and enforce a progressive platform over her corporate cronyism. Most impt. thing to come out of this bizarre election cycle–two very unpopular candidates in the lead–is potential for a citizen organization to make the political elite abandon its career of well-paid cronyism for the billionaire class. That’s what killing our public schools and every other public institution we need in America—housing, parks, mass transit, public health, you name it.
“After this Nov., with H as Pres., it will be impossible to enforce any Platform that comes out of the July Dem Convention, which is why Dem insiders are willing to let Bernie appoint Cornell West to this committee–it has a short shelf life. ” I can’t fully agree be because I do think we can “tilt the coke machine”…. you may not get what you want out of the coke machine bottles — but there is a push or a nudge…. Personally, I just think the pushing should be more to the left …. It’s also important to think of those persons on the ballot who are going to fill the seats in the house and senate… Putting the whole platform/party onto one candidate gives that office way to much influence – – much more than I believe the Prez has.
to Duane Swacker
May 26, 2016 at 12:55 pm
Thank you! I found my party…my vote!
Thanks for the nice words peace! I just pointed the way. There are many folks who have been working for years with/for the Green Party and they are the one’s who should be thanked. Glad to have been able to help though!
I give up . . .
I REALLY give up . . .
AW… don’t give up.
Robert, your comments on this subject have been spot on. I’m sorry I was too upset and frazzled to say so sooner. Do not give up. Diane Ravitch is not an inflexible ideologue. Do not give up. That’s the whole point of this blog, isn’t it? To unite us through high minded debate against a common (core) foe? We supporters of voting — or refraining — one’s conscience are already having more of an impact than it previously seemed. The tones they are a’changing. There is strength in our numbers. (I think Diane said that once.)
Now, I have been trying to remain tactful and pleasant, to unite rather than divide. That might have to change. On Saturday, I get to meet, for the first time, one of the most important regular commenters here. I’m having lunch with her. She is frustrated by the pro-Clinton rhetoric and has stopped reading this blog because of it. (No matter how many times one claims to support whichever Democratic candidate who emerges, we all know it’s Her Herness, and has been since she won New York. Two of the superdelegates are Cory Booker and Bill Clinton, for crying out loud. They are not going to change their “super” votes.) I will tell our mutual friend that her anger is useful. I will encourage her to come back and turn her powerful rage against anyone — Anyone — who supports Eli Broad’s minions in the Democratic Party. I do not intend to let us lose her voice in this war on public education. She’s too important (especially here in Los Angeles) to lose her. So are you, Robert. I appreciate all of you who have written in support of honesty and true democracy, and against fearmongering and blackmail. Wish me luck this weekend.
Left Coast Teacher,
Could you identify the “pro-Clinton rhetoric” that appeared on this blog? Just for the sake of accuracy.
Well, Diane . . .
You seem to have a pro-Clinton rhetoric in the sense that you say you will support any Democrat who wins the primary in order to increase the chances that Trump will not win.
You, at the same time and in another post, are saying that people who vote for Sanders or Stein are throwing away their votes and increasing the chances of Trump getting elected because they are not voting for Hillary, who you seem to posit has a mathematical chance of winning the primary. Do you really see Sanders as a Nader? Nader was never a career politician to begin with, and never went anywhere near as far as Sanders has gone. They are not in the same category by any means.
You seem to be a strategist, and I support that. Many if not most of us here are purists, but Sanders can be seen as strategy as well if he turns around and runs as an independent, which I personally am urging him and his people to do!
I have expressed vitriol on this blog for Clinton because she is just no damn good, and an orange that has 40% rot in it is worth tossing into the garbage (Hillary), as much as an orange that has 95% rot (Trump). Even if I am starving to death . . . .
An inedible orange is an inedible orange, and I shall ingest neither of them, lest I become ill and vomit. Hillary is intelligent and polite, civil, and polished, genteel, and well mannered. Her politics are disconnected and plutocratic. She does not care for the average person.
Trump is vulgar, course, crude, rude, and really not bright in the realm of politics. His politics are disconnected and plutocratic. He does not care for the average person.
The only difference is that Trump is more honest about who he is than Hillary. They both are not fans of public education and education unions.
I will always consider you an irrevocable ally, but I will never accept that my support of Sanders is a waste of time or a distraction from a perceived bigger, safer approach to politics.
This has been a provocative post, but I wonder if it was as productive as it was intellectually enriching.
LOL! you have a way with words, Robert.
Robert,
If I were supporting Hillary, I would have said so long ago. I think she is one of the smartest women I have ever met—Elizabeth Warren is the other–but I have not endorsed her because she is surrounded by the same Obama people whose ideas have been so ruinous for American education. John Podesta and the others at Center for American Progress, who are on board with privatization, testing, and all the other bad ideas in Race to the Top.
I like Bernie’s rage against income inequality, his proposal for free public college, his commitment to universal health care.
But at this point it is unlikely that he will win the nomination and not because of the super delegates.
If he wins, I will support him. If Hillary wins, I will support her.
Then fight like hell to reverse the Duncan mindset.
Thank you Susan and Left Coast Teacher.
I don’t give up . . . . I feel revived with both your commentary.
Many thanks to Diane for her reply above. Yes, I did notice you say you’d vote for whoever won the Dem nomination. To have an impact, such a declaration had to come when Bernie announced his candidacy so as to give the outsider a chance against the insider. At this point, with Bernie close to elimination, Hillary has already been anointed and declared the winner. Media outlets insistently put it Hillary vs. Trump and completely ignore, dismiss, or ridicule Bernie to discourage, dissuade his supporters. I’ve supported Bernie for months but can see where this is leading and the great impact of the 448 super-delegate insiders already pledged to H; B. has about 44. H is so distrusted she may not be able to win without Bernie’s wing of the party which means a rapprochement is required. Problem is that the Bernie progressive wing has absolutely no way to enforce even a progressive Party Platform after November. It’s a throwaway document which Bernie’s gang can have for all it’s worth. What is needed is a consolidated organization to raise hell if Pres. H starts appointing Goldman-Sachs types to run the Govt as her husband Bill did in 90s with selection of former Goldman Pres. Robert Rubin as Secy. of Treasury. Do you see what this requires? An Occupy the White House from November onward to let Pres. H know that we voted for her to change the political economy of America, not for business as usual. We have to be onsite live in the crucial months of transition, inauguration, and first 100 days or else Pres. H will go about doing what she’s always done.
. I agree with this, and said as much to Diane way back when..”To have an impact, such a declaration had to come when Bernie announced his candidacy so as to give the outsider a chance against the insider.”
Way to tell it Diane.
I agree with Diane about throwing your vote away. I will not do that, and I will vote for whoever gets the Democratic nomination. This is the question: how do we encourage that person, should he/she get elected, to select a Secretary of Education that is going to be friendly to public education? I voted for Obama twice, because there really was no other alternative, but his education policy has been abysmal.
I am started to feel so frustrated that our Democrats aren’t really Democrats anymore when it comes to public education.
Kimberlyn,
You are correct. The Democratic party has nearly abandoned public education. The Race to the Top could have come right out of the GOP platform: competition, choice, high-stakes testing. It was a disaster for public education.
The Democratic party has lost its way.
We have to use whatever influence available to educators to insist on sound federal policy. Through members of Congress and other elected officials.
Randi Weingartner will almost certainly be Hillary’s Secretary of Education. At least, heck she sure has earned it by delivering Hillary the teachers union.
Regardless of what happens in November, there will still be a need for this blog and others like it and NPE and BATS and a multitude of other initiatives and efforts.
That’s because, IMHO, there’s never an end point for a “better education for all.”
There will always be a need to raise a ruckus.
😎
There will be an even greater need after November to keep up the pressure to get rid of the toxic effluence injected into public education by the Bush and Obama administrations.
End privatization.
End high-stakes testing.
End VAM.
Support equitable and adequate resources for all public schools.
Send the for-profit merchants of charters packing.
Support efforts to reduce poverty and segregation.
Support families and communities.
and we need to raise it LOUD and clear before it is too late!
That’s the ticket.
In 2008 I was told that I must vote for Barack Obama or the sky would fall. Because of his education policies, namely Race to the Top, I ended up havimg to seek counseling for psinc attacks from the stress brought on by Florida’s implementation and I ended up having a stress-related heart attack followed by a medical bankruptcy.
Obama did what Republicans only dreamed about: brought about the destruction of public schools, public school teaching as a profession, and the near extinction of unions in this country. All as a Democrat.
Guantanamo prison is still open. We are still at war with Iraq and Afghanistan. Not one Wall Street banker spend an hour in prison for nearly collapsing the world economy. Millions of Americans lost their homes, their savings, and their ability to live a middle class lifestyle.
And that was with an unprecedented Democratically-controlled Comgress just waiting to help democratics president change the world. Instead we got neoliberal triangulation and repeated dailed attempts to appease the other side.
Partisan Republicans have called the Obamas everything but human for 8 years and srill work themselves into a frenzy because a conservative black man has beem president, even when he supports most of their policiies and has no,inated one of them to the Supreme Court. They hate Hillary even more, if that is possible, even when she tells Jeb Bush voters to suport her because she shares their values and vision.
My vote, my choice.
It is insulting and undemocratic to tell me that if I choose to vote for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Part that I am throwing my vote away or wasting it. I will vote for the candidate who best represents my beliefs and supports the most causes that I support. That is not Hillary or Trump or either corporately owned party.
If Trump wins it is because he gets the most electoral votes, not because some citizens caused it by not supporting the Democratic candidate. We elect those who represent the majority of us. If that is Trump it is an ugly face staring back from the mirror no doubt but it is us no less.
I hope it is otherwise but I will not apologize for not choosing someone I don’t beleive in nor will I accept blame because that candidate fails to win enough votes. It is a candidate’s job to win our votes, not the fearmongering threats of Armageddon that seek to force people into choosing the less of two evils.
Forgive the typos. My vision is poor and I typed this in semi-darkness.
Thank you Chris – I voiced the same sentiment in my comment above. No one should be shamed for exercising their right to vote ever. If the majority of the people in this country voted it would be a true representation of the choice of the people. That is what we should be encouraging.
Forget your typos. This is the best post I’ve read so far it is spot on on all fronts.
he spoke at a SREE conference to “researchers” and he claimed that harvard educates best; he also had great things to say about Sir Michael Barber and his “implementation protocols”.. I posted it here last week. He says he is neutral about charter schools and then he says “urban charter schools” are the greatest…… I’ll find it for you… I posted it here last week thinning everyone would be interested because he was promoting Jeb Bush again and again and Sir Michael Barber again and again.
this is for Sallyo57 He spoke at this SREE conference and he praises Sir Michael Barber and Jeb Bush and “urban charter schools.” https://www.sree.org/video/index.php?fullScreen=Yes&item=2016SBall3
This post does a fine job clarifying why a Trump presidency would be scary – though it’s mind-boggling that it has to be said. It would’ve been more valuable to shed more light on Clinton vs Sanders WRT education. Admittedly, that’s hard as education hasn’t been a prominent topic in their campaigns. No doubt either Dem candidate is more competent and predictable than Trump. I have a couple of big concerns with Clinton. 1. She will lose to Trump because her establishment/corporate backed campaign does not inspire. And, 2. She will win against Trump because of her establishment/corporate backed campaign and we will continue to slowly lose ground on education, income inequality, climate change – because of her establishment/corporate backing – just as we have with Obama and her husband. Yes, there would be small victories with her as president, but not near enough to change the trajectories in these areas.
On education specifically, Clinton’s association with corp reformers is concerning. Her involvement in pushing corp reform in Haiti is a worrisome indicator. Check out http://www.schoolsmatter.info/2016/05/wikileaks-reveals-hillary-clinton.html. No doubt she would give NEA/AFT some concessions and do some positive things. I don’t think she intends to do harm, but she seems tied to the corporate sector/wall street in numerous ways (ideologically, financially, personally). And, she may be more effective in pushing a corporate agenda than Trump – both because she has so many connections and because many on the left will give her a free pass as they have with Obama.
If we really want to curtail corporate reform, getting Sanders as the nominee should still be a priority. Sure, he will not be able to stop it by himself, but he’s shown himself to clearly be a much stronger ally to working people and stronger fighter against the powers behind corp reform. The people he would appoint and listen to would be much more likely to support positive ed reforms.
I so agree with you, Diane. This whole election is scary. I have no relationship with my sister because I know who she supports. The sad thing is, she was a teacher, and a good one. Prayer is needed for the whole country.
“Prayer is needed for the whole country.”
Yeah, that and a couple of bucks will get you an overpriced cup o joe from Starbucks. Do don’t pray.
I don’t think all the prayers in the world will save us from The Donald if he is elected president.
What good is prayer when God allegedly, according to the Old Testament, gave us mortals free will. Free will means God promised not to intervene in mortal affairs. Our lives are in our own hands. Asking God to save us is futile. It’s up to us mortals to save ourselves and to obey Gods laws. If we use our free will to not obey those laws, the price we will pay comes later and we all know that most people are willing to risk that to do what they want now that breaks those laws.
There are 100 Bible Verses about Greed.
“But those (that includes The Trump) who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.” – Timothy 6:9 and 6:10.
“Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said , ‘I will never leave you nor forsake you.” – Hebrews 13.5
Even the 10th Commandment prohibits greed and the setting of one’s heart on material possessions.
I think that anyone who supports The Trump or any of the billionaire oligarchs that worship at the alter of avarice is also guilty.
You don’t accept individual responsibility? Guilt by association sounds like.
J. H. Underhill
Your question accused me of not accepting individual responsibility. Guilt by association, BS. I don’t associate with frauds, fools and monsters like The Donald. And I wouldn’t do it even if the opportunity were offered to me as a way to gain more influence and money.
I think you are an idiot. To be clear, I didn’t say you are an idiot. That is up to each individual to decide as is their right.
I have never worshiped at the alter of avarice. I don’t worship the wealthy, and I don’t envy them.
Have you ever wondered why it is so easy for crooks to steal money from people by offering them a deal that would increase their wealth?
I have and the best way to avoid being ripped off by a fraud who promises high returns without risk is to never take them up on that offer and hand your hard earned money over to them. I earn enough money to support a comfortable lifestyle. I don’t have a huge amount of cash sitting somewhere. I own a small home. I don’t go hungry. I earn enough to pay my bills as long as I don’t get greedy and spend more money than I earn.
A perfect example of what I’m talking about is the promises of Trump University.
For instance, “Judge directs internal Trump University documents to be released.”
From 2005 to 2010, when the program closed, about 10,000 students across the nation signed up for Trump University classes, which promised success in real estate by offering courses and seminars based on the principles of the businessman.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/28/politics/trump-university-donald-trump-documents/
If those 10,000 students hadn’t been greedy, they would have seen through that promise of success. No one can promise success unless they hand you success in a very big check.
The Donald’s political albatross is the fraudulent Trump University.
“A review of Trump University presenters and so-called real estate experts found many with questionable credentials and inflated resumes. Court documents show background-checks conducted during the hiring process could not determine whether some instructors even graduated high school.
“Trump University brought in an estimated $40 million from up to 10,000 enrollees between 2005 and 2010, when the New York Department of Education said it was no longer allowed to call itself a university. The company changed its name to the Trump Entrepreneur Initiative and shut down in 2011.”
http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/27/news/trump-university/
HRC’s political albatross is a list of e-mails she sent from her own private e-mail account.
“A newly issued report on Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server flatly rejects one of her core defenses in the controversy — that she was playing by the rules.
“And while the findings of the State Department Inspector General probe don’t land any devastating blows against the Democratic front-runner, they provide ample grist to keep questions about her handling of the situation alive as the general election campaign gears up.”
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/clinton-email-problems-223573
Fact: None of the Emails Sent to Clinton Were Labeled as “Classified” OR “Top Secret” (UNTIL AFTER THEY WERE SENT. In other words retroactively.)
http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/08/12/myths-and-facts-on-hillary-clintons-email-and-r/204913
Politifact.com reports on Clinton: 7 Benghazi probes so far
Their ruling
Clinton said, “There have been seven investigations (of Benghazi) led mostly by Republicans in the Congress” that concluded “nobody did anything wrong, but there were changes we could make.”
Clinton’s number is correct: there were seven previous congressional probes into the Benghazi attack. Saying these committees were led “mostly by Republicans” is also a fair assertion: the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence and the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs were the only two committees not led by Republicans. As for her comment that there was no overt wrongdoing, just room for improvement, that’s a rosy assessment. But it is also largely accurate. We rate this claim Mostly True.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/oct/12/hillary-clinton/clinton-there-have-been-7-benghazi-probes-so-far/
It will be interesting to see what happens in the lawsuit against Trump University.
What about Trump’s history with being names in Federal Lawsuits?
Law Newz.com reports: “We Investigated, Donald Trump is Named in at Least 169 Fedreal Lawsuits”
Donald Trump has been named in at least 169 federal lawsuits, according to a LawNewz.com investigation. They read like a history of Trump’s business failures, successes, and bombastic personality.
Click the following link and scan through the list of court cases. “Just a note, the cases listed below only include those filed in U.S. federal court. Who knows how many others were filed in state courts around the country.”
http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/we-investigated-donald-trump-is-named-in-at-least-169-federal-lawsuits/
Mother Jones reports on what it is like to try to sue Donald Trump.
“Trump Management: In 1973, the Department of Justice brought a lawsuit against Donald Trump and his father’s company, Trump Management, for alleged violations of the Fair Housing Act in connection with 39 buildings it operated. The DOJ alleged that building administrators racially coded apartment applications to secretly ensure that black applicants would be denied. The case was settled in 1975, without an admission of guilt from Trump Management.”
There’s more where this one example came from:
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/03/not-comprehensive-history-trump-business-deals-gone-wrong
You are so brilliant and so knowledgeable. It is such a pleasure to read your posts, and your links to evidence. Hope you memorial day was fun…or at least relaxing.
Thank you. I was up early today and working in the backyard by 7 AM and back inside by 9 AM. Then I worked on the house I’m renovating installing aromatic cedar flooring in another closet. Lots of detail work. Just finished working at 6:30 PM.
This is why you are my hero. Thanks for the voice of sanity.
I have lunch once a week with a group of third-grade students (former first graders.) They regularly discuss the Presidential race. They are absolutely dumb-founded by Donald Trump. The first one in the room always starts the lunch period with “Did you see what Donald Trump said last night.” One said, “I’m Mexican, he wants to deport my family.” Another recently told the rest of the group, “We’re a nice country. I don’t want him representing me in front of the rest of the world.” These boys are eight or nine-year-olds and they are scared of what might happen if Donald Trump is elected. I agree with you Dianne and so do my former students. Children should not be scared about who will be the President of the United States!
The only wasted vote is a vote not cast. The president of the United States should be chosen by the people and every person should be able to cast their vote and be proud of doing so no matter who their choice is. No American should be made to feel shame for exercising their right to vote and sending a message like this keeps people away from the polls in a time when we should be encouraging them to vote. What needs to happen is to rid ourselves of the electoral college and the super delegates and have one vote on one day where everyone can go and vote with pride and confidence. I am a Bernie supporter, I will honor his wish and will not write him in, I will vote for Jill Stein of the Green Party if my choices are Clinton and Trump. I am done voting the lesser of two evils. I will vote, I will be proud to vote and I will not belittle, disparage or otherwise make anyone feel like their vote does not count or that by voting they are hurting America. The campaigners have one job right now and that is to convince the American people to come out and vote for them. If they can’t do that the fault lies with them not the American people. Cripes, wars have been and are being fought so that everyone has the freedom to have a say in how their government operates, people are dying and have died in America and other places to gain the right to vote. They didn’t fight and die so someone could tell them who to vote for they fought and died so we could have a choice and a voice.
Your comment reminds me of an argument that I used to have with my teenagers. On occasion they would accuse me of not listening to them. I countered with I heard them just fine; I just didn’t agree with them. It was not too long ago that I used a variant on my husband: It is okay that I don’t always agree with him! It is okay that we don’t all agree with each other. I don’t doubt the sincere intentions of most posters on this blog to improve educational opportunities for all of our children. The same is true for the political opinions expressed here. I don’t always share the same opinions, but that is okay. That’s what democracy is about. I hope that we will all still be able to work toward common goals once the election is over even when we don’t agree on how to do that.
Here’s what we do know about Trump : He’s cozying up with Christie and Christie is intent on high stakes testing–wanting PARCC to be a high school exit exam– and expanding charters with a big push to make it easier for them to open due to more deregulation.
http://politickernj.com/2016/05/christie-announces-reforms-for-operation-and-expansion-of-charter-schools/
And of course, in NJ everyone knows he hates teachers.
I’m glad to see your mostly forthright statement this time around, Diane. You were unnecessarily coy when Obama was running.
I’m puzzled, however, about what’s so scary about Dr. Carson’s education policy advice?
At least by demeanor and fundamental honesty I much prefer him to any other of the candidates running in any of the parties, including, sorry to say, The Green Party as well, whose nominee impresses me as a sedate socialist in spirit and deeply misguided on policy as well.
Harlan,
Dr. Carson is a great surgeon. He is also a Bible-thumping evangelical. I think his education advice would end public education
Not a hypocrite, though. He lives his faith.
J. H. Underhill
To all veteran educators:
First of all, would anyone know exactly the rule in PRESIDENTIAL election?
Is it true that in general election, particular Presidential Election, only candidates in two major parties like Democrat and Republic can be qualified? What is about third party and independent party candidates, especially in Presidential Election?
If by rule and regulation in PRESIDENTIAL election, third party and independent party candidates will stumble or must encounter with more obstacles in general election even if candidate won with enough votes but not major, for example Republics gain 33%, Democrats gain 30% and third party gains 37%, then what if third party must forfeit their winning, so that Republics still wins narrowly over Democrats by 3%.
If this is the case, then we must agree with Dr. Ravitch’s suggestion in this thread.
IMHO, and also in my own experiences in dealing with conscientious, political minded and business minded people, there are more than one major factor in their own personal character, but spousal, and parental influences will be accountable.
1) HRC is influenced by not only her only child future career, but also her own welfare and well being from Wall Street ‘s pressure. Her action can be divergent so that suddenly PR machine tries so hard to attack her and to bring her down.
2) B. Sanders is influenced by his spouse who is controlled by ??? so that his spouse does not pay attention to the utmost important fact in DEMOCRACY = SUPPORT PUBLIC EDUCATION.
3) J, Steins is influenced directly by Harvard University (=puppet master). Who can trust Harvard University or “Puppet Master” behind the scene?
4) D. Trump is influenced by money, lust, ego and power. He would be easily do whatever for his own personal good, without shame, regret, and merci for his people, his country and his allies.
Bernie and Hillary individually are the best people who we can count on minus their spousal influences. However, like I suspect that people will throw their votes away or indirectly make D. Trump to be qualified as being American President in 21st century IF AND ONLY IF people divert their votes to the third party.
Please concentrate on PUSHING Republics AWAY, by ONLY VOTE for DEMOCRAT candidate in General Election. So far, today American Republic has no spirit in humanity. Back2basic
“HRC is influenced by not only her only child future career, but also her own welfare and well being from Wall Street ‘s pressure. Her action can be divergent so that suddenly PR machine tries so hard to attack her and to bring her down.”
Hillary Clinton’s net worth is listed at $31.3 million and Bill’s is $80 million. I don’t think HRC’s own welfare depends on Wall Street — not any longer. With that much money between the Clintons, they are now their own person and no one owns them. What they do, they do because they want to do it for whatever reason.
The more money you have, the more freedom you have from others telling you what to do. Sure, Wall Street can use their PR machine to destroy her chances of moving into the White House again, but why would she do anything during the election to bring that on.
Once she’s in the White House, she will be in a position to do whatever she wants, and we have no idea what that will be.
While you make some good points, back2basic, I agree with LLoyd and think you are making a fundamentally bad assumption about Hillary. Just because someone has reason to fight for something good (such as a child), doesn’t mean they will make the right decisions. Hillary sure has made lots of bad decisions, even if she did have some pure intentions mixed in there.
May,
Do you have a link for your statement #3? Please provide a link. TIA, Duane. I’m interested in reading that information.
Question about consequences of voting: what if the candidate you voted for decides to take the US to yet another war?
Right. Or what if she hands public education over to Eli Broad and/or the Waltons? What if the economy crashes yet again because she continues to overlook their toxic practices while they take home billions and evict the rest of us from our homes? If third party voters are responsible for the actions of a president they didn’t even vote for, then I think people who do vote for a candidate need to take responsibility too. This is not a one way street.
My main concern is war, which usually is treated as just another CNN event here. Any US president in the last 30 or more years not starting war? Any president in the last 70 years not bombing other countries? What’s the likelihood that the next pres we are encouraged to vote for will continue the tradition? Is it an acceptable thought that we vote for a guy who then bombs other countries for whatever reason? We do know that this will happen…
Dienne, likely she’s been beholden to Eli Broad for a while. Ravitch really softballs Clinton’s association with reformers here, no doubt from a position of fear, and perhaps she’s written more on HIllary’s relationship to reformers in posts that I missed. I get how scary DT is but let’s not pretend that Hillary doesn’t have a history that puts her deeply in bed with corporate reformers. If Hillary is elected, each one of us needs to be aware of her past and on the ready to hold her accountable. And because corporate media is also deeply committed to the decimation of public schools, we aren’t likely to hear much except in the way of propaganda. We’ll need to know the sources that can be trusted and spread information through the channels that are available to us. Here’s one piece that offers a glimpse into Clinton’s relationship to Broad.
http://www.schoolsmatter.info/2015/06/eli-broad-and-clintons.html
Thank you Lloyd for your confirmation of “The more money you have, the more freedom you have from others telling you what to do.”
That is exactly what I expect that HRC will be divergent. She would be strong enough and intelligent enough to build better future for Americans and for her only daughter’s future career in politics.
War will destroy hope and crumble global economy and environment. Therefore, in order to protect their wealth and their legendary, HRC will be divergent and defy PUPPET MASTER’s order. I hope that women’s endurance, patience and intelligence will overcome all malicious PR machine’s tactics.
Men seem to please their spouses even if their spouses are wrong. But, women will do whatever is right to their conscience only if they are conscientious and well brought up by their parental examples regardless their spouses’ persuasion. Back2basic
PS: In politics, you must do whatever to survive and to climb to the top where you can get rid of threat and get out of pressure from opponents.
I do not expect politicians to do whatever to please noise from opponents’ tactics. I expect politicians first take care of their own nation’s security, people’s welfare and clean environment BEFORE helping allies and other countries in needs.
D. Trump is purely businessman who inherited wealth from parents without hard working. He smartly employs “good connection” employees who sustain his wealth. The way Trump speaks with his tantrum that proves he did not have any diplomatic strategy of being a commander, a leader LEFT ALONE to be American President.
“Therefore, in order to protect their wealth and their legendary, HRC will be divergent and defy PUPPET MASTER’s order.”
Unlike with the stock market, with people past performance is a really good predictor of future behavior. There is nothing in Hillary’s past behavior to support this assumption (and a lot to refute it).
Trump has stated that he is against curbing planet warming emissions from coal-fired power plants. He is also against the Paris Accord that is attempting to lower the possibility of global weather chaos.
Climate change has the potential to destroy life on earth. Already parts of Florida are experiencing some flooding.
…….Quote from the New York Times:
“Mr. Trump said that in his first 100 days in office, he would “rescind” Environmental Protection Agency regulations established under Mr. Obama to curb planet-warming emissions from coal-fired power plants.
“Regulations that shut down hundreds of coal-fired power plants and block the construction of new ones — how stupid is that?” Mr. Trump said.
However, the next president will not have the legal authority to unilaterally rescind the climate rules, which are now being litigated in federal courts. If, as is widely expected, the case goes to the Supreme Court, the justices, rather than the president, will determine its fate. But if elected, Mr. Trump could nominate a new Supreme Court justice to help strike down the rule.
Mr. Trump’s threats to unravel the Paris Agreement could carry more weight.
In his speech, he complained, inaccurately: “This agreement gives foreign bureaucrats control over how much energy we use on our land, in our country. No way.”
……….
I do believe that voting for third party candidates or Bernie or bust hand writing Bernie’s name on the ballot (there is no place for that in Indiana) will mean the Democratic Party will loose. Do we really want Trump as President? I find him scary and ignorant on too many issues.
I am a Bernie supporter.
Hi Dienne:
I am 100% plus to agree with your words: “Unlike with the stock market, with people past performance is a really good predictor of future behavior. There is nothing in Hillary’s past behavior to support this assumption (and a lot to refute it).”
However, human being has the superior trait in CONSCIENCE or MORALITY. This SPECIAL trait sets us apart from LOW CLASS animals.
I understand that in politics, politicians MUST FOLLOW and OBEY their party rules. Politicians will be nothing if party leader and members do not support them. Therefore, we MUST observe the behind the scene or puppet master who complete control global economy and SPY RING in the world. This can be very simple or VERY COMPLICATED, This depends on our keen observation and our logical mindset to all aspects in life.
Please put yourself in HRC’ s shoes, what would you do to forge ahead to protect yourself and still achieve your setting goal? I purely admire her strength, determination and courage in obeying party rule and overcome opponents’ PR machine tactics. Yes, thick skin has double meanings in good and bad. HRC definitely has thick skin in good meaning to be a leader,
She will be GOOD or BAD commander, this depends much on what she believes in history of all bad DEAD dictators as well as all legendary American Presidents like Abraham Lincohn one of six favorite best USA Presidents (a top six of Lincoln, Washington, Franklin Roosevelt, Jefferson, Jackson and Theodore Roosevelt.)
Life is very short to accomplish what we set to achieve to fulfill our conscientiousness against our SELFISH desires in fame, wealth, lust, ego and pleasing the crowd. May.
Headline: “In a rare occurrence, Obama speaks his mind about Trump for the world to hear”…Washington Post
“Obama has explicitly criticized Trump several times this year, saying the presidency requires sober judgment, and some leaders have asked him about Trump’s most controversial remarks. But he went even further at the close of this week’s G-7 summit. In response to a question, the president said foreign leaders are “surprised” by Trump and that they “are not sure how seriously to take some of his pronouncements.”
“But they’re rattled by it — and for good reason — because a lot of the proposals that he’s made display either ignorance of world affairs or a cavalier attitude or an interest in getting tweets and headlines instead of actually thinking through what it is that is required to keep America safe and secure and prosperous, and what’s required to keep the world on an even keel,” he said.
……
I’m sure Obama is worried because he is the one who has been talking to foreign heads of different countries. How does one support Trump in that environment? Hillary has a lot of baggage but Trump is worse. The whole world is concerned about what he would do.
Well said, Diane. I said as much to a friend, recently, who said he’d rather not vote at all.
It always seems to be about the lesser of two evils, nowadays. The notion that Trump was planted as a means of scaring us into maintaining the status quo, though far-fetched, resonates with me all the same.
You may find this hard to believe, but in 1960, many Dems were disappointed with the nomination of JFK, so much so that his great admirer Arthur Schleshinger Jr felt compelled to write a book for the campaign: “Kennedy or Nixon: Is There a Difference?”
Hah! That IS interesting. I’ll give that one a look, Diane. Thanks.
This election has been mired in mud. And frankly all the candidates have more than their fair share of flaws.
As far as I’m concerned, I will never believe anything candidates say. I believed deBlasio when he stood on the side of public ed yet he put a pro-Joel Klein person in charge and then put forth a contract that gave away due process rights to one group of teachers.
It seems every election cycle is turning into the lesser of 2 evils. But I will vote for Hillary not because I like her, I don’t. But because I have no other choice.
I know a lot of Bernie supporters have said they would either vote Trump or some 3rd party candidate. They feel putting Trump in office will prove Bernie was the best choice. Hate to break it to them, but the US electorate have a few screws loose and will not care.
The only good thing to come out of a Hillary victory is that Trump would have to label himself “loser” on Twitter.
If Clinton wins and she appoints Wendy Kopp is Sec. of Ed., I wonder if Ms. Ravitch will change her tune.
Irami, why would I “change my tune” if Wendy Kopp is Secretary of Education? Who do you think will be Donald Trump’s Secretary of Education?
I must agree the electorate has some loose screws. Look at the mistake they made the last two elections.
Everyone should catch Bernie as the interview guest on Bill Maher this week. Yes he says things we have heard but here is the real person, listen to him, watch him when he laughs, see what authentic looks life, and watch his reaction when Bill mentions the Trump debate.
Seriously, trust me…you do, don’s you????
One atheist interviewed by another.
J. H. Underhill
You and Trump are one of a kind, and the noun I have in mind is not related to religion.… have you considered that silence really is golden and that your offensive and unnecessary opinion is not needed here! You define yourself. >
“One atheist interviewed by another.”
Much better when crusaders talk about saving the world.
I don’ think this comment is helpful to the discussion… Furthermore, I don’t believe it is correct or factual about EITHER person… Mr. Underhill has made a judgment about two people that he doesn’t know at all…. and the judgment is detrimental because it sets up a nihilist viewpoint — and I don’t think I would use that term to apply to the particular individuals (Moyers/Sanders)…. so maybe I should just leave it at Mr. Underhill is cynical. If I fall into cynicism about voting and stop getting information from serious and intelligent people then I would be lost . It smacks of the comment: “we don’t need no gubmint” or other juvenile understandings about civic life. Yesterday, I posted Dante’s comment on being better than “beasts [if]… we are in search of virtue and knowledge.” It is that pursuit that led me into the teaching field….. Or, the old standard “life with out government is nasty, brutal and short.” Is that where you wanted to lead us Mr. Underhill?
One atheist interviewed by another. J. H. Underhill
jeanhaverhill@aol.com
Mt. Underhill does not come here to be informed or to join a discussion which leads to some grasp of solutions. He asks questions and makes comments simply to antagonize us. He clings to his ideology and has nothing better to do, no focus that brings him pleasure, so he zings people here. Cynical is a nice word to describe what he does to amuse himself.
H Underhill is obviously, from his own words, a hate monger and a fool who spreads far right propaganda without thinking or fact checking. Bernie Sanders is a Jew and here is a pull quote and link to his views on religion and beliefs.
“Bernie Sanders supports people’s right to freely congregate, practice, and express their faith within legal bounds. To protect both personal religious freedoms and civic equality, Bernie advocates for the separation of church and state, which allows Americans to honor diversity, respect personal autonomy, and voluntarily choose to practice or abstain from religious faith.
“Separation of Church & State: Public laws ought to be independent of any one particular faith in order to maximize religious freedoms for all.
“Religious Freedom (Non-Discriminatory Right to Express Faith or Non-Faith): Individuals should be allowed to express and practice their beliefs and values, even if they are in disagreement with public policy, but religious freedom is not a right to discriminate.
“Bernie’s Beliefs: Bernie is a secular Jew who values and actively engages with people of various faiths for the betterment of American society.”
http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-religion-and-beliefs/
As for Bill Moyers, he has a bachelor of divinity degree from the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary and worked as a minister. Wiki lists Moyers religion as the United Church of Christ. The United Church of Christ (UCC) is a mainline Protestant Christian denomination, with historical confessional roots in the Reformed, Congregational and Lutheran traditions.
http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/FINDING-MY-RELIGION-Bill-Moyers-talks-about-3233124.php
Harlan, fact check before you spew your false and libelous bile.
Thanks, Llloyd… I keep Bill Moyer’s book (it was a TV series at one time)… here on the book shelf beside Edward R. Murrow biography….Also, about 3 months ago I complained here that the redstate.org has malignant anti-semitic “cartoons” on their site ; this issue is primary of importance in my thinking and discussions with my friends.
On another question I tried to get to the Foreign Policy article that you mentioned two days ago but got caught up in an endless loop on their site of “password” and “signing in”… will try again today as it is an important point that you mentioned and I wanted to follow up on that.
Thanks again, lloyd
Good luck with Foreign Policy. Sometimes they let you read one and sometimes they don’t unless you pay.
I guess I’m in the minority here in that I’ve read some intelligent posts from Harlan which drew my respect. I know he can be antagonistic, but so be it.
Harlan: I was brought up in the Christian faith. I believe in God though I don’t like to be confined by the word. I have friends and associates spanning the full spectrum of religious beliefs. I also have friends who are atheists and agnostics. They are such fine human beings that I could and would never allow my religious beliefs to color my attitude towards them. And for all I know, they may be right.
So what’s wrong with the concept that Bernie and Bill might be atheists? Why would this draw a negative comment from you? Do you think that atheists lack moral
principals? My personal experience has shown me otherwise.
But B & B are not atheists – that’s what is significant (see my earlier comment in this thread).
Or does HU consider everyone that doesn’t belong to his Christian denomination (there are more than 30,000 different Christian demonstrations in the world in addition to many versions of the Bible translated into English) atheists and nonbelievers, because they don’t follow in HU’s footsteps and think like him?
The original texts were mainly written in Biblical Hebrew after several thousand years of an oral history without written versions, with some portions (notably in Daniel and Ezra) in Biblical Aramaic. Biblical Hebrew, sometimes called Classical Hebrew, is an archaic form of the Hebrew language. The very first translation of the Hebrew Bible was into Greek.
Even if HU does make sense occasionally, when he reveals that he drinks extremist Kool Aid, he loses all credibility even for the few times he sounds like he knows what he is talking about.
There’s definitely a lot to look at in this arena, isn’t there. Good points, Lloyd.
Just looking for a rational discourse with Harlan. Isolating people just compounds the resolve to be “right” (a hallmark of our species), ime. I, personally, need to have a feeling of respect from another in order to truly consider changing my viewpoint in a verbal debate.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the “Bill” in this duo was Bill Maher, right Susan? I don’t know what his particular religious persuasion is, not that it should matter in a country that declares the virtue of separation of church and state.
Bill Maher thinks about religion like most if not all of the Founding Fathers did. Maher is highly critical of all religion and views it as highly destructive. He has been described, or self-identified, variously as an agnostic, atheist, and apatheist, while objecting to having his views defined by a single label. In his 2008 feature film Religulous, he refers to himself as agnostic. He has rejected being grouped with explicit atheists, saying in 2002, “I’m not an atheist. There’s a really big difference between an atheist and someone who just doesn’t believe in religion. Religion to me is a bureaucracy between man and God that I don’t need. But I’m not an atheist, no.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Maher#Religion
The Founding Fathers Deism, and Christianity
“Deists argued that human experience and rationality—rather than religious dogma and mystery—determine the validity of human beliefs.” And “Deistic thought was immensely popular in colleges from the middle of the 18th into the 19th century. Thus, it influenced many educated (as well as uneducated) males of the Revolutionary generation.”
http://www.britannica.com/topic/The-Founding-Fathers-Deism-and-Christianity-1272214
Agnosticism versus Deism
Agnostics neither believe in, nor disbelieve in, the existance of God; Agnostics just don’t now know? And many Agnostics doubt Man will ever know; at least not whilst in Earthly life, know.
Deist do believe in God, and Deists neither believe in, nor not believe, Holy Scripture of any religion’s. Deists just don’t know? They are not God-believeing Deists because of alledged Holy Scripture; but believe in God inspite of Holy Scripture.
http://agnosticism.tribe.net/thread/6ad56654-4b77-486b-b5ce-08db843caea7
Conclusion: Bill Maher is not an atheist because he does not disbelieve in the existance of God. Instead, he is open to someone proving to him beyond any doubt that there is a God, but he doesn’t except religious dogma as evidence. He’s waiting.
“…Religion to me is a bureaucracy between man and God that I don’t need.”
Excellent.
I was responding to the statement as if it were Bill Moyers…. If it is “the other guy” Maher then I can stand with my statement “Harlan knows nothing about EITHER guy” and their own individual persuasions. In the 60s we talked about “raising one’s consciousness” and if the consciousness takes you into a different path, I can live with that as long as it is not a “cult” or “extreme” diverging from reality….. My example: Karen Armstrong was in a convent to be guided in her catholic faith; she was ill and they kept telling her to pray harder. It was only after she left the convent that doctors found she had epilepsy and no amount of praying would have altered her behaviors that the nuns were judging. . I try to read all of her books and understand her quest and her pursuit of values through the spiritual realm…. but it seems to be another slur that we call people “socialist” or “atheist” in order to cause a reaction ; this happened with Romney (because of the Mormon faith) was running for Governor in MA and it was discussion in MA about “who was actually a christian” or who was the “real” christian and it made me ill to hear the garbage being spewed. That kind of disagreement is friendship ending.
Repeat…”Everyone should catch Bernie as the interview guest on Bill Maher this week.”
https://www.google.com/search?q=Bill+Maher+%2B+Bernie+Sanders&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
Now, now Susan. Don’t display your fascist-socialist, censor-anyone -who-disagrees-with-you, side so openly. It isn’t seemly of you, and frankly, trying to shame the opposition is really not in the true American spirit, which I take to be embodied in the first amendment.
Only by free speech in competition do we approach truth.
My point is that no socialist can be a true Christian believer. Their creeds are completely antithetical. Of course, hypocrisy abounds.
Now isn’t that (Xian ≠ Socialist) a likely truth?
I didn’t read beyond your description of YOURSELF “fascist-socialist, censor-anyone -who-disagrees-with-you” perfect transference. Will read nothing you post. You are a pathetic old man.
there is a responsibility that goes with free speech when you are an educated professional with a “teaching license”…. this is the same old discussion from the 60s — improve the colleges/ or burn them down…. When you have a license for a profession and you participate in a public forum, I raise the question why you would want to drive people towards cynicism or nihilism or apathy? Is that fair when you are working with students? Is it “fair” and appropriate when parents read here? I understand the need to play a role of “devil’s advocate” but it would appear that some enjoy playing a cat and mouse game and they have more power than the mice.
When it comes to schools/education, I keep asking why are we telling teachers to present only “academic language” in the classroom (which I happen to agree with by the way) and yet in the public forum we have Governor Christie using sopranos testosterone when he insults women who are petitioning about unemployment or Trump who is forcing this street language all the time. I have to tell my ex-marine nephew frequently that his free speech over-rides his integrity and decency as a human being and his tattoos aren’t any better because I learned the Russian alphabet in Berlitz classes.
source: “American Governor” by Michael Katz — Governor Christies language in the public forum
Only by free speech in competition do we approach truth.
jeanhaverhill@aol.com
Jean, most 12 year olds do not grasp the difference between the ‘free speech’ and the freedom of ‘expression’!
Freedom of speed is part of the Constitution, put thereSO THAT people could voice genuine concerns and disagreement with government.’
Freedom of ‘expression’ –to say anything they want… I.e. calling our fire in a crowed movie will get you arrested.
Name-calling is the last resort of a childish mind, or someone who cannot successfully argue, because of a fallacious catalogue of opinions with no facts attached.
People who get frustrated with truth-sayers, call names and try to distract from a real conversation… Here, for your utter enjoyment, is another self-absorbed adolescent , this time arguing on the stage with a presidential contender on the subject of :
policies that impact families..
Notice, the similar tactic, instead of arguing the facts he gets down and dirty ….well you gotta read: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/29/opinion/sunday/make-family-policy-great-again.html?ref=international
and this critter wants to be president… he i snot merely arguing on a blog.
“Notice, the similar tactic, instead of arguing the facts he gets down and dirty ….well you gotta read:” I love it when you and Llloyd and other people supply further references and readings…. I will definitely follow up on this one….
Thank you for your support. Susan and I disagree about politics, but I gather she is a first class teacher, one of the truly great ones, better than the best, and no doubt better than I was.
J. H. Underhill
Ah Jean. Bravo. Well said, and thank you.
You are kidding, I hope. Jesus proposed a decidedly socialistic philosophy.
I do not think Jesus was a socialist at all. That’s a misreading of the gospels and letters. However, I’d be willing to hear your argument if you care to make it.
Harlan: “I do not think Jesus was a socialist at all. ”
I imagine inviting him to our country and asking him for his opinion. Walking around in his well worn sandals, he’d say approvingly, with a rare smile on his always serious face.
This just warms my heart. It really was worth suffering crucifixion for y’all so that 2000+ year later it developed into this. I didn’t say it so explicitly at the time, but yeah, people need to pay to be treated for their illnesses, parents need to pay so that their kids can be taken care of in kindergarten and before, teenagers need to take out gigantic loans to be able to get educated, and I really like this idea of less and less people owning more and more of the world and deciding what other people should do. Pharaohs had healthy control in Egypt, but these modern, highly deserving people control the whole world. Isn’t that something to be cheerful? Doesn’t it motivate all the other people to better themselves and reach high?
To tell you the truth, I was thinking about similar stuff while carrying the cross, but I never saw this clearly—maybe I was more tired than I thought and, I admit, the prospect of death also distracted me. But luckily, brother Milton Friedman brought complete clarity to the fundamental principle of my teachings: There is no such thing as free lunch. You always get what you deserve.
Casting the whole purpose of life as participation in the economic competition is an excellent way of expressing the essence of the New Testament, and it should provide clear guidance to the common people in your century and beyond.
Your irony is well taken. I doubt He would like much of what he saw. His message, however, was not to government (i. e. Rome), but to individuals. WRT Rome, He preached freedom of the individual.
J. H. Underhill
You are right that he was not interested in the “things of this world,” like government, but if his ministry had been about individual freedom as the central tenet, Christianity never would have developed. He was part of a faith community as a Jew, and stressed the idea of community as being a key element of his teaching. A communal faith developed around and beyond his ministry.
Voluntary community, not government. That’s where both Winthrop and the pre-reformation papacy went wrong.
Does not “common good” imply voluntary community?
It does, VOLUNTARY community, not government invented, funded, and managed community. Let people come together in local not federal associations, as I suppose schools and school boards originally were.
Wait a minute…I voluntarily choose to be an American citizen. No one is forcing me. Part of that citizenship involves supporting the general welfare of the country. We can argue about what that is and what the framers of the Constitution meant, and whether the meaning of that term should/might change with time, but government was not imposed on me. Fortunately, I am also free to voice my objections which are much more likely to be heard if my concerns are shared by a like-minded community.
2Old2Teach; this is exactly what I remember from my infrequent church attendance …. The author who uncovered this for me was Borg (he and his wife are both ordained ministers but in different churches I believe).
Jesus proposed a decidedly socialistic philosophy. Yes.. 2Old2Teach; this is exactly what I remember from my infrequent church attendance …. The author who uncovered this for me was Marcus Borg (he and his wife are both ordained ministers but in different churches I believe). A paperback he wrote is “Meeting Jesus Again for the First Time” and he describes the social paradigm and the core values. Another interesting work by Marcus Borg is based on current interpretations… example: “The Jewish Annotated New Testament” (editors Amy-Jill Levine and Marc Zvi Brettler) and Borg has a parallel of the book illustrating the essential concepts and ideas. For a poetic interoperation of these themes I keep Walter Brueggemann’s “Inscribing the Text” handy .
jeanhaverhill@aol.com
Second thoughts: The Bernie/ Bill Maher interview was, as Susan suggested, VERY well worth watching. I apologize for my snotty (though true) post.
Bernie’s socialism sounds very much like what I believe, if we can pay for it. He seems like a ‘regular fella,’ a trustable American, not doctrinaire or wild or crazy at all.
Hillarious seems to me shrill, corrupt, lying, fundamentally evil, the epitome of ‘Washington Politics.’ I do think she committed egregious national security crimes, but I doubt she will be indicted. Obama will prevent it.
I’d like to see a Bernie/Trump general.
So there.
Since you seem to be disparaging HRC can you sort out from your “ideology” (a) what is anti-feminism (b) what is just plain anti-intellectual (since you seem to claim owning a lot of the virtues of academe) © what is the usual vitriol aimed at ANY person who dares to take a leadership role (d) what is your need to convince others to follow your philosophy (as i pointed out before you lead people down a path of cynicism, apathy, nihilism ) . I don’t much care who you vote for or should you choose to stay home (and convince other people in their own vulnerability that they should not vote) …. I’m tired of all the white males (many of them professors with high positions in academe) who call me/us “marriage wreckers” or “little ramona from the 1960s rock band– Checkers Finn and Mike Petrilli and Jay P Greene are doing enough of that)… It seems that the powerful and the “know it alls” have the privilege to offend us with their values but should I offend you with my values….. well then you extol privilege by claiming your natural superiority? ….. If you stack up all of the men who have campaigned for presidential office and then compare HRC do you really think there are differences that are significant? it’s ok for Bush 41 to be head of the CIA and then be sworn in as president but when Russia puts in the head of the KGB etc… we get offended. People still have a problem in this country with uppity women who get 4 college degrees and have experiences in the real world that would put them any where near the credential of the anointed.
IF Hillary were Maggie Thatcher I’d be supporting her. You mistake politics for sex/gender.
J. H. Underhill
I’ve read the Niall Ferguson books ; you can keep him and Maggie… and Evita and Mrs. Marcos if that is what you like…. At least you are declared as being the polar opposite of my choices Elizabeth Warren…. Ferguson is the “intellectual ” at Harvard who supported Maggie and wrote that Obama was “felix the cat” but he didn’t see any racist attitude in that either….
Now, that’s totally unfair, putting Maggie in the same category as Evita or Imelda. Hillary is more like the latter two. They were old fashioned self-enriching demagogues, dependent on their husbands for power. Hillary would be nothing without Bill.
Maggie freed the Falklands.
J. H. Underhill
well it is inaccurate for you to say this…. so you are unfair as you accuse me of being unfair. At this point I think I will take Carol burris’ advice : “If I take the bait I am a fish” so I don’t choose to respond to any more posts by mr . Underhill
Hillary would be nothing without Bill.
jeanhaverhill@aol.com
OK.
J. H. Underhill
now you got it!
to Harlan: then it is safe for me to assume because you like Margaret Thatcher’s polices that you would also like the working of Christie regarding pensions for firemen, policemen and teachers? At least when you declare your politics there is more clarity in your position; otherwise, you were pushing people to not vote? to become cynical, to fall into apathy? Now it is clear you don’t want the rest of us to vote if we don’t support the Reagan voodoo economics so you would wish the democrats or the independents leaning left would just “stay home” .
We have such a low turnout of voters and when I do door to door so many teachers tell me “i’m not political ; I’m neutral” and I guess they just don’t know that the people voted in are setting the budgets for their schools etc…. and priorities… To quote Howard Zinn , you can’t be neutral on a moving train and yet all Harlan’s erudite “devil’s advocate” statements would push people to an extreme…. or pass some litmus test of “purist” and make the tent smaller and smaller. It might be important for some of your students (assuming you are in academia) be exposed to Elie Wiesel’s argument as to why apathy is worse than anger. I can understand the anger of the Bernie supporters — in particular our city leader was attempting to get himself into the MA delegation and he was a young music teachers from KY… so I supported him but I don’t know the political organizing to get him to the “inside” when the party is controlled in s many ways.
Details in Nigel Lawson, The View from No. 11: Memoirs of a Tory Radical (London, 1992), p. 37.
You shouldn’t assume anything. I always vote. Everyone should vote. Unfortunately the choices this year are all equally disgusting.
J. H. Underhill
I fear it may take a Trump presidency to wake this country up to how broken our political system is. It may have to get worse before this country will embrace meaningful change from the bottom up. As a species we tend to cling to the practices that brought us to this point and deny that those same practices no longer work because the world has changed.
John,
A Trump presidency means reversal of environmental regulation, nuclear proliferation, destruction of out international alliances–do you really want that?
Susan, I have NOT taught debate. Is what you claim I am doing called dragging a red herring across the trail? I realize that that would not be proper. I don’t think I am impervious to logic at all. I don’t like the personal insults very much. That’s not part of debate is it?
about wars– even Jimmy Carter who was anti-war had policy for anti-Russian campaigns that fed the Taliban…. I recently read a book about Carter and I had forgotten how much people hated him because of the Iran hostages … Today, we are pushed to fear or voting out of fear ; example, when the underpants bomber was active at that Christmas season , we had a special election in MA and the fear mongering pushed the vote for Scotty Brown (over Martha Coakley) … they constantly use this fear and make claims “women are weak” etc. “Trump is strong” and you know Tarzan will protect you, right? … I have heard even two 78 year old women claiming this and at church I heard a young man about 45 say “women are too emotional” so he would not vote for one. We voted for McGovern because he was an early anti-war candidate (he only won in MA)…. even at that time there were slogans “anyone but McGovern” and tremendous arguments about delegates etc…
My feeling is that Sanders or Warren would never take us to war, exactly because they are strong.
I am in Europe right now, and once people find out that I am from the US, people are obliged to ask me if people in the US realize that Trump is a madman. They think, the US elections change how the whole world is run: “only the French care about who their president is, only the Slovenians care about who their president is, but do the American voters realize that the whole world cares about who the US president is?”
Europeans are convinced, the immigration crisis is a direct result of the Bush policies after 911. Interestingly, it seems the most incomprehensible for Europeans is not our lack of free health care (which would have been my bet) but our conviction that mass shootings can be prevented with arming people with handguns.
My nephew and wife live in London; he grew up in Houston TX and he has told me about the reactions to Trump where he is now … I agree with you on everything that you are saying…. and I agree with what you have printed about the immigration issues and the policies after 9/11. I fear living in a country that is governed by Trump or his ilk… or people who have his same motives. In many places I have left a comment that he is like Howard Hughes with his money but Howard’s psychosis went “internal” and we are all suffering from Trump’s psychosis because he is acting it out in the world. Unfortunately, we have not been doing the job in civics education and this has given us many voters who are misinformed, know nothing about history etc. In the college here , if you ask students in some classes what was happening in the 1930s in Germany they don’t seem to know anything about it.
this is the statement from a republican blog this morning…”Personally, I just feel like I’m not a member of the Libertarian Party, I don’t really pretend to be and I never have, and I don’t want to carpetbag on their convention because my own party has nominated an unfit orange-faced clown who I can’t support even over Hillary Clinton in the general election. This is the exact sort of hostile takeover the Trumpkins managed on the Republicans,” Watch for news from their convention this weekend.
I never voted for Bill Weld in MA (nor did I vote for Romney) and Bill Weld is actually looking quite ancient but it is interesting to WATCH from a distance. My neighbor has pounded me with the fact that she is libertarian and she rents to a Trump voter…. so I have to be careful how many fights I pick in one day… I have to keep my distance. But , as I remarked yesterday here I don’t want to become familiar with Trump and prefer keeping him at a distance. Sort of like the prayer in Fiddler when they pray for the Tsar “keep him far from here”.
Thinking about the possibilities if the libertarian party draws more than 10% in a primary…… There is no way the current polls in May can predict the November decisions… same thing we say about the experimental tests in 3rd grade (have no predictive validity when it comes to later achievement/college etc)….
that is all I am saying (I’ve made up my own mind to choose blue no matter whose name is on the ballot (yes, I voted for Bernie Sanders in the primary in MA)….
——————-
source of blog comment : Red State.org the same site where they post malignant anti-semitic “cartoons” about Bernie Sanders ; I don’t recommend their site but I point it out… (same thing I do for Jay P Greene or Mike Petrilli — I don’t recommend them but I point them out)
I voted for Bernie in the Primary in MA and did door to door and phone bank for his campaign. That being said, here is a quote from Rick Perlstein: “Creating fair and legitimate representative institutions can be monstrously complex” ….. …………….. A lot of ground work and a lot that needs to take place in local level politics (and I know I’m repeating myself from yesterday, but the candidates lower down on the ballot need to be examined so that we are vigilant within state as well)…. Another good book I am struggling with is “Power Wars” by Charlie Savage; for me, he is explaining why I was disappointed with President Obama on some issues but Savage explains it in a way that gives me insight into how the government works…. and how some promises don’t always get kept in the way we envision …. (such as closing Guantanamo etc) When it comes to education I think too much trust is placed in someone (like a Duncan) because foreign policy, health care, and constant wars take up the priorities and the funding (for wars constantly)….
I wish that someone would check on the investigation on both Jane and Bernie for bank fraud in Vermont. There are other allogations as well.
I don’t know. I read very much. At this point in my life (age 66 yrs.), and with all the information available and any time I might have to read it, I am questioning my choice to even vote this year. At least it’s a choice and not one of those “laws” I will get punished for if I am not obedient.
Pilger pointed out some facts recently – http://johnpilger.com/articles/silencing-america-as-it-prepares-for-war
with a twitter beginning (somewhat down in the article), “The election of Trump or Clinton is the old illusion of choice: two sides of the same coin…”
Maybe I myself will choose to “opt-out” this year.
But that would be “irresponsible”, wouldn’t it? Especially after all the blood that was shed to get the “right”.
Should I have learned throughout my education that it is always necessary to fight?
And after so many lies, how do I know I am voting for the right person?
Actions always speak louder than words.
Choosing between arsenic and strychnine is hardly a choice.
J. H. Underhill
Actually, The Donald is a Hell Fire Missile and HRC is only a Big Mac. Both will kill you, but it takes about thirty years for Big Mac to kill you. A Hell Fire Missile will kill you in an instant, but the U.S. has survived several Big Macs so far: Nixon, Reagan, G. W. Bush, and Obama. Bill Clinton and the other Bush, the daddy, were just an order of greasy McDonald’s fries or a 60 ounce Coke.
A very apt analogy, Lloyd. Actually I think one can get acclimated to arsenic in small doses, but not strychnine, so I know which poison you think is which. In the terms of your analogy, where does Bernie fit? Is he fresh, organic, health food, right off the farm?
I don’t think much about Bernie even if he might be the best candidate for the 99% but not for the 1% — how many candidates who are not anointed by the oil of avarice that has been blessed by the billionaire oligarch gods win presidential elections?
Stop and think about it. What’s best for the 99%, socialist programs or corporate capitalism?
How many people actually prosper from corporate capitalism when there are no labor unions to protect workers rights and no social safety net to help care for the 99% when they are too old or frail to work?
For instance, what’s wrong about union workers earning more during their lifetimes compared to non-union workers?
On average, union worker’s wages re 27 percent higher than their nonunion counterparts.
Unionized workers are 60 percent more likely to have employer provided pensions.
More than 79 percent of union workers have jobs that provide health insurance benefits, but less than half of nonunion workers do.
Unions help employers create a more stable, productive workforce—where workers have a say in improving their jobs.
Unions help bring workers out of poverty and into the middle class. In fact, in states we’re workers don’t have union rights, worker’s incomes are lower.
And “Right to Work” States still have lower wages. At their core, RTW laws seek to hamstring unions’ ability to help employees bargain with their employers for better wages, benefits, and working conditions. Given that unionization raises wages both for individual union members as well as for nonunion workers in unionized sectors, it is not surprising that research shows that both union and nonunion workers in RTW states have lower wages and fewer benefits, on average, than comparable workers in other states.
http://www.epi.org/publication/right-to-work-states-have-lower-wages/
I know these facts are true because the family I was born into lived in poverty until our father landed a union job thanks to my godfather and godmother helping him get hired into that union job. Growing up, my family was never wealthy. My parents never could afford to buy new cars and my dad changed the oil himself, replaced worn out brake pads and did his own tune ups to save money.
Why is the Republican and Democratiic parties fighting so hard for the rights of billionaires, CEO’s paid seven and eight figure annual incomes and corporate profits when so many Americans that are not union workers aren’t even earning a livable wage?
The Donald is a member of the 0.1%. He was born into wealth. He grew up never wanting. He is a super narcissist and he is only in love with himself. To him, everyone else, including his long line of female conquests and wives, are toys and peasants to serve him.
HRC might be owned by the 0.1% but she wasn’t born one of them. HRC was born into the middle class. Her father, a fervent politically conservative anticommunist, managed a successful small business in the textile industry. Her mother was a stay at home mom.
Trump was eligible for the draft lottery during the Vietnam War. He was not drafted due to four student deferments (2-S) while attending college, as well as a medical deferment (1-Y, later converted to 4-F) obtained in 1968 after his college graduation, prior to the lottery being initiated. Trump was deemed fit for service after a military medical examination in 1966 and was briefly classified as 1-A by a local draft board shortly before his 1968 medical disqualification. Trump attributed his medical deferment to “heel spurs” in both feet according to a 2015 biography, but told reporters in 2015 that he could not immediately remember which foot (later that day he said both feet). Trump is a born liar. HRC learned how to lie to survive in America’s political circus where honesty is a handicap.
Yes, I think Bernie would make a better president for the people but not the greed sucking, tax evading Trumps of the world that for the most part don’t see the working class as human like them.
Does a billionaire have less rights than anyone else?
J. H. Underhill
one’s motives in life and how one determines and measures “success” is a part of character …. I have had this argument with finance/stock brokers when they tell me “greed ” is an “emotion”… no, it is a learned valued — it is not part of temperament. The way that people acquire their “billions” and how they treat others who don’t have millions is in question… You are trying to make an intellectual exercise about something that is highly important to me… Maybe if it were in the same classroom among equals it would be a “fun game to play” but not in today’s circumstances of factions and polarization…. this blog theme gets copied into many sites and there are many readers …. so for the larger audience (a) character does matter in a President (b) how people acquire billions is one indication of how they measure “success” and achievement and they want to legislate this for all our kids? © I am angry at those who build experimental tests and tell me their definition of “success” is achievement — when it leaves out all of the other significant values that I place importance on. We have too many people claiming “I don’t need no college education because I’m a successful business man”… that is one message that comes from Trump’s minions… and all the time the small businesses are struggling and closing because of the “successful” stores (I quit shopping in Home Depot a year ago when I learned the owner was donating to Christie)… but to play out all of these differences with your viewpoint — it gets tedious and tiresome…. I am feeling like I did when Virginia/Brian ASP was writing his jibes all the time in order to be contrary to anything that might represent progress in overcoming polarities. We have the Chamber of Commerce running commercials in NH against Governor Maggie Hassan and the MA Business Alliance feeding the Sir Michael Barber hyper marketing to the Board of Ed….. There was once a concept of “noblesse oblige” but it doesn’t seem to be understood today….
Does a billionaire have less rights than anyone else?
jeanhaverhill@aol.com
Your question was obviousness written to mislead easy to fool people into thinking billionaires shouldn’t have equal freedom to everyone else.
In fact, billionaire have more rights and freedom than anyone else because their money buys those rights even when those rights trample other people’s rights and are illegal or morally wrong? If the billionaires were equal to the rest of us, their political clout would be equal to each one of us regular people that do not have the money to fund super packs with an unlimited river of funds to subvert democracy and the public will and buy up the traditional media.
The Brooking Institute reports, “Meet the Billionaires: the 1,645 men and women who control a massive share of global assets worth $6.5 trillion. … Are the super-wealthy different from you and me?’ asks Darrell West. Different or not, they are shaping our world, sometimes for the better (when they invent new things), but often for the worse, when they undermine democracy, use government to enrich themselves, and create a culture of social separatism and uber-success
Unless you are indifferent to this new world, you should read West’s book. — Branko Milanovic, author of The Haves and the Have-Nots: A Brief and Idiosyncratic History of Global Inequality
“The top one percent own about one-third of the assets in America and 40 percent of assets around the world. This concentration of financial resources in many countries gives the ultra-rich extraordinary influence over elections, public policy, and governance.”
http://www.brookings.edu/research/reports2/2014/09/billionaires
Mother Jones reports, “Billionaires Now Own American Politics. Dark money is already shaping the 2016 race as motivated magadoners handpick the candidates and the issues.”
“With the advent of super-PACs and a growing reliance on secretly funded nonprofits, the very wealthy can pour their money into the political system with an ease that didn’t exist as recently as this moment in Barack Obama’s first term in office.”
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/05/billionaire-donors-political-power-dark-money
This is what I want. I want the billionaires to be exactly equal to the average man among the 99% that are not wealthy so those billionaires have no more political influence than me or my neighbors.
So, in answer to your question, billion ares have more right than than everyone else and they shouldn’t have that power.
And before you ask, yes, if I was a billionaire, I’d want those restrictions in place to stop me from abusing my power because I know I would.
Money buys power and power tends to corrupt and absolute power from gross wealth corrupts absolutely.
The best way to curb that abuse from the uber-wealthy on the rest of us is to tax most of their wealth away and deny them tax shelters. For instance, Bill Gates can still buy a better lifestyle and more freedom than the rest of us with $1 billion instead of $80 billion, but he would also be unable to buy more power to abuse the rest of us reducing our freedom. Taking away $79 billion of BG’s wealth will not make him less equal than the rest of us. That would not strip him of his freedom. In fact, even if he only had an income equal to me, he’d still be just as free as I am — and not less.
Taking away most of the wealth of the super rich will just give the rest of us a better chance to be equal in the political arena so our voice counts instead of being smothered.
Ah, Lloyd, what a pleasure it is to read someone who has a grasp of observable reality . Here is sone thing for jean and anyone who wants a visual of the reality of what you say:
It’s the last graph that shows the truth!
Thanks for the video inequality in America from You Tube… I follow Robert Reich each day in his newsletter (it comes in my email) and people can find him on FB… He explains a lot of the details and he has experience in the office of Labor…. I much prefer his analysis over anything that came from Thatcher’s government (as discussed by Niall Ferguson)….
On the one hand, Lloyd, you have one vote, Billy G has one vote. 1 = 1, no? The ballot is secret, no? It’s illegal to buy votes, or vote more than one time. So how are the billionaires stealing elections?
J. H. Underhill
J.H.U.,
If you are that ignorant and naive, I refuse to teach you how the billionaires are stealing elections and getting laws passed that benefit them or their agendas for this country. My suggestion is that you start to educate yourself with the links in my comment.
And if you don’t read, here’s a 7 minute video that might help you learn how billionaires are stealing as many elections that they can buy.
You also might learn something from this piece from The Washington Post – that is if you are willing to learn:
“91% of the time the better-financed candidate wins.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/04/04/think-money-doesnt-matter-in-elections-this-chart-says-youre-wrong/
And if that isn’t enough for you, then here’s one from PBS News Hour: “Money is pretty good predictor of who will win elections”
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/money-pretty-good-predictor-will-win-elections/
Then there is Open Secrets.org: Money Wins Presidency and 9 of 10 Congressional Races in Priciest U.S. Election Ever.”
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/11/money-wins-white-house-and/
What about ALEC Exposed?
“Through the corporate-funded American Legislative Exchange Council, global corporations and state politicians vote behind closed doors to try to rewrite state laws that govern your rights. These so-called ‘model bills’ reach into almost every area of American life and often directly benefit huge corporations.”
http://www.alecexposed.org/wiki/ALEC_Exposed
Thanks for the links, Lloyd. I’ll read them as I can.
I AM that ignorant and naive.
Great teacher YOU turned out to be.
John H. Underhill harlanu2@gmail.com
>
I retired from being an abused teacher more than a decade ago. I refuse to be abused and stepped on any longer by the idiots and fools that are out to destroy a good thing, the traditional public schools.
I respect you and your career greatly. I do apologize for my final small minded sentence. Public schools are one of the great things about this country. I do point out that on this blog I do see a lot of posts that suggest to me why they have lost credibility with many of the public, namely the advocacy for a larger socialist program generally in society.
That socialist bent among so many teachers does not do their cause any good nor does it inspire confidence in their judgement even though they were truly great classroom teachers, as you and Susan seem to have been. Professed socialism among public employees opens unnecessarily an opportunity for the privatizers. Socialism ALWAYS ends in tyranny. The prime American commitment is to freedom, not equity. Venezuela is the most recent example of a failed demagogic socialist state.
Most recently Bernie appointed a pro Palestinian representative to the platform committee. That lost me totally as a potential Bernie voter in the general. Maybe I’ll have to go Libertarian this year.
J. H. Underhill
HU,
How did you twist the crime happening to the traditional public schools by for profit at any price corporate fraudsters into teachers wanting socialism?
Socialism is a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
There are about 3.5 million teachers in more than 15,000 traditional public school districts that are community based, democratic, transparent and non profit. The 15,000+ school districts are guided by education code/laws in 50 different states. The property those schools sit on belongs to each school district, not to the community or the government. School districts have been known to sell off property they own to the private sector when a school is closed as a way to raise funds that help to financially support education.
That is not socialism.
I think you sound like a libertarian. A libertarian is a person who believes that people should be allowed to do and say what they want without any interference from the govenrment.
If people could do whatever they want, there’d be more crime, more thefts, more fraud and more killings because there would be no public sector police to do their best to stop it.
Of course, we could turn all the police work over the corporations like what is already happening to prisons.
What will happen then when there is no way to police the police because the corporation won’t cooperate when their own police are running around killing, rapping and robbing people because their billionaire oligarch believes that everyone should be allowed to do whatever they want to do.
Basically, the thinking goes like this: If you get robbed, too bad. If you get raped, it’s your fault. If you get shot, you were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Your loss and our gain because we can do whatever we want without worrying about being punished by a government.
You deeply misunderstand Libertarianism, for which you can be forgiven, and partially misunderstand socialism, for which you should not. Straw man argument on Libertarianism. Likewise on socialism.
I reject your judgement.
There has never been a pure socialist or libertarian govenrment. Since there has never been one, how can anyone know if either one is good or bad. There are countries that have more socialist programs than others but that doesn’t make them a pure socialist country. Even China isn’t purely socialist since it has a huge private sector that practices consumer capitalism. Soviet Russia was never a democratic socialist country but I think you still condemn socialism even though socialist programs do work i democratic countries like Denmark, Finland, the Netherlands, Canada, Sweden, Norway, Ireland, New Zealand and Belgium.
Despite popular myths, there is very little connection between economic performance and welfare expenditure. Many of the countries on this list are proof of that, such as Denmark and Finland. Even though both countries are more socialistic than America, the workforce remains stronger.
Finland has one of the world’s best education systems, with no tuition fees and also giving free meals to their students. The literacy rate in Finland is 100 percent. Finland has one of the highest standards of living in the world.
Canada also has mostly a free market economy, but has a very extensive welfare system that includes free health and medical care. Canadians remain more open-minded and liberal than Americans, and Canada is ranked as one of the best top five countries to live in by the United Nations and the Human Development Index (HDI) rankings.
What about the world’s most libertarian countries?
New Zealand is on that list too. Now how can New Zealand be listed as one of the top 5 most libertarian countries and also be considered one of the most socialist countries at the same time?
The United States makes that list too along with Switzerland, Canada (also on the list of most socialist countries) and Ireland, another one of the most socialist countries.
https://libertarianmoney.wordpress.com/2013/03/04/5-most-libertarian-countries-what-is-the-most-libertarian-country/
Yeah Lloyd. HU has an important question that most knowledgeable people grasp, so waste some time to ‘explain’ tis someone who’s no respect for anything you say,and answer it. Then explain why the sky is blue or why ic e freezes or… HU has nothing to do today.
I’ve met HU’s type before. They are over educated — at least they think they are — and so everyone that doesn’t agree with them is wrong. The HU’s of the world never learned that the more you learn, the less you know, because when your mind is open instead of a solid concrete wall with selective sources that tell you what you want to hear without fact checking, you realize that there is no way to ever know everything and whatever you read and hear should be taken with a “grain of salt”. Doubt first and fact check, fact check, fact check.
My “type” eh? You mean truth seeker? Assume that all my posts begin with: “This is what puzzles me . . . “
Do not forget that “truth seeker” is what you think of yourself. Not what others think. That does not make you right.
Instead, find out what other people think of you after they have been exposed to your alleged “truth seeking” and conclusions from that truth seeking.
What’s true to one person might not be true to someone else. But that often depends on the sources each person is turning to.
Who has the best chance to find the truth – someone who only listens to Rush Limbaugh or another extremist talking head (left or right) or someone who does their own fact checking from many reputable fact gathering and fact checking sources?
I think you are often wrongheaded from the conclusions you spout, because the truths you claim often do not hold up when I check the sources I use.
I don’t listen to any extremist talking heads on the radio or TV. When I hear or read something that I haven’t fact checked, before I accept what I read as the alleged truth, I fact check to see if that cup holds water or leaks, and I think you are leaking a lot.
Yes, you may call me ‘Dr. Leaky’ if you wish. My claim that freedom and equity are fundamentally unable to exist simultaneously in social reality is not taken from anyone else. It is my tentative conclusion after thinking about the country’s problems for many years. I would very much like to be proven wrong by argument or events, but so far I don’t see that I have been.
That the conclusion has been reached without a comprehensive, in depth reading of all the primary sources I readily admit. Aristotle is such a high mountain. Plato as well. Adam Smith as well. Montesquieu. Marx. von Mises. Keynes. Friedman. Rawls. Nozick. Sowell. It could go on. Journalists of the daily ephemeritha would seem to me to be a waste of one’s time, simply a reinforcement of one’s prejudices or even economic situation. Ask me about the dozen Shakespeare plays I’ve taught for years, and I can go directly to the point with no waste motion or speculation. I KNOW (in my opinion) what Hamlet’s hamartia is. But Bernie’s and Hillary’s and Trump’s present a different object of analysis.
You think quite highly of yourself.
You allege that you have never proven yourself wrong, and I think you are comparing yourself to: “Aristotle is such a high mountain. Plato as well. Adam Smith as well. Montesquieu. Marx. von Mises. Keynes. Friedman. Rawls. Nozick. Sowell.”
Since there has never been a pure democratic socialist state, how can they all have failed?
And since there has never been a pure libertarian state, how can they all be the best choice?
And how can the most socialist countries in the world also be the most libertarian countries while being successful—proving you wrong and right at the same time?
I have yet to read in toto the article to which you linked, which since you have read it, I presume you have, you realize is not gospel, and not science, but an interesting but SUBJECTIVE analysis (as the author puts it) of a number of factors to produce his paradoxical ranking. It’s an interesting idea, but you certainly don’t expect me to answer your questions without having thought about it a bit.
Whether I think a lot of myself is surely irrelevant to the discussion, unless you are just using it as an insult to try to shut me up because you don’t want anyone else to hear my ideas because they might influence someone, anyone, to think differently about the matters of the world, which you on your own part, you seem to feel you have arrived at the ultimate answers about.
Socrates would not say something like that. He would say, “Let’s examine your argument, friend. . . . ” Why not that here instead of “idiot” or “vile”?
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/the-mind-of-donald-trump/480771/
Truth seeker. Is that what th e voice in your head calls your method of disrupting important conversations. Impervious to proof as you are, you cannot claim to seek truth.
Truth seeker. Is that what the voice in your head calls your method of disrupting important conversations? I have taught debate and I recognize the nature of the things you ask us to explain.
Impervious to proof as you seem to be, judging by the things you say,, your claim of being a ‘truth’seeker’ rings hollow andto some folks would appear ironic as well as laughable
There is nothing that you mentioned that I have not read, and I bet Lloyd can say the same. What you claim to do is NOT what you actually are doing at this site.
And speaking got analysis and truth , here is a link that offers you an analysis of Trump, and for me, it why this man must not be the next president.
“Billionaires Now Own American Politics. ”
This is exactly what needs to be emphasized, not what percent of wealth they own.
RE; ” That nonsense question: “Does a billionaire have less rights than anyone else?”
My 13 year old grandchild, who hears only the GOP big CON in her parent’s circle of friends which includes millionaires and 2 billionaires, said the same thing to me… which goes to show the level of thinking o f someone who asks something that only shows a total lack of knowledge .
Billionaires’ have less rights? What do they mean?
If I say, “nobody can make more than a million $” doesn’t give less rights to anybody, does it?
If I say “the more you make, the more tax you have to pay” again doesn’t give less rights to anybody, does it? I simply say “Our laws allow you to take more, but, naturally, you also need to give back more. Our laws are generous, because it still allows you to keep more”.
They (the billionaires) formulate their objections, arguments in terms of percentages, because that’s advantageous for them. They usually say “why should I pay more % of my salary for taxes than the average citizen?”.
They even dare to say something like “I need to pay less % in taxes so that I can run my business, so that I can compete with others”. But the companies that say this do not compete, they stifle competition. These big companies’ inner workings are amazingly similar to how the countries in the Soviet block ran businesses: they produce incredible waste.
So what do they mean exactly by “less rights”? They need to spell it out.
I wonder what billionaires would say if asked whether they would trade their “rights” for those of a poor black man.
Excellent concept. Let’s set up a poll.
Stiegem
In my opinion, voting is a very personal matter and quite frankly, I find it hilarious when others tell me how I should vote (and not vote), since the candidates I have voted for in the past 4 elections (Nader and Stein) would have been orders of magnitude better than any of the major party nominees.
BTW Anyone who is actually familiar with the facts knows that blaming Nader for Bush’s win is just ignorant. I’ll tell you who is really responsible for Bush’s win: a bunch of political hacks in the Fla governor’s office and on the US Supreme court — and all the people who voted for him, of course (none of whom will ever take responsibility)
“BTW Anyone who is actually familiar with the facts knows that blaming Nader for Bush’s win is just ignorant. I’ll tell you who is really responsible for Bush’s win: a bunch of political hacks in the Fla governor’s office and on the US Supreme court — and all the people who voted for him, of course (none of whom will ever take responsibility)”
I’ve been reading articles, recently, which showed, statistically, how Nader (and Anderson, in another decade) was not the difference maker in the campaign.
I can still remember Bush’s confidence when he said, “I’m not worried about Florida”. He knew brother Jeb wouldn’t let him down.
Oh, and we can’t forget all the Democrats who voted for Bush, either.
Underhill said:
“Socialism ALWAYS ends in tyranny.”
What is sure to end in tyranny is the concentration of wealth and power in the hands of a small minority, which is the end game of capitalism. Socialism, on the other hand, says that the best way to avoid tyranny is… equity. Which is exactly right. By definition, you cannot have both tyranny (a repressive and arbitrarily cruel regime) and equity (fairness or justice in the way people are treated.) Nor can you have “freedom” without justice…
You seem to believe that absolute freedom of any individual is true freedom, but that ignores the fact that there are other people than yourself, and one’s “absolute freedom” easily translates into the death of others’ freedom. Freedom can never be absolute, because it must be consistent with the freedom of others. (Eleanor Roosevelt)
And like most people, you do not know the actual definition of socialism (democratic control of the means of production and distribution), nor do you understand that no socialist state has ever existed.
Thank you, Susan, for the link to the Atlantic article on the mind of Donald Trump. I like it’s comparison of him to Andrew Jackson.
Me, too, but he has much in common with Mussolini.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/oct/14/why-i-will-not-vote
Stiegem: from the article about not voting, “What if everyone acted the way you did?”
Well, that would be perfect. It would express the fact that people don’t believe in this system or at least in the presidential position.
The stakes are unreasonably high during a presidential election. The situation is very similar to the common core standardized tests: high-stakes are attached to something which shouldn’t have such high stakes. CC tests should affect teachers, US presidents shouldn’t be able to influence the whole world.
Mr Wierdl… thanks for your comparison with the high stakes testing. to me, not voting is like going on a hunger strike; “hey , ma, I don’t like the food you have prepared for me so I refuse to eat”…. We have a semi-sovereign system and the participation of people in interest groups, in coalitions, in all aspects of society and political life is essential… When this dwindles down to isolationism factions, self-interests promoted where trivia can become triumphant , “stay at home” or not voting and not participating in the elections … democracy suffers.
Jean: “not voting is like going on a hunger strike; “hey , ma, I don’t like the food you have prepared for me so I refuse to eat”…. ”
Of course, there can be much better reasons to go on a hunger strike than mother not giving you the dessert you like, and an obvious reason not to eat is when you know the food is poisoned.
Why is the opt-out movement against standardized tests acceptable and even encouraged but not against our corrupted political system? There is even a connection: the political system produced and forced on us these high-stakes tests.
I agree, and you have exposed the poverty in my analogy…. But when I think of the hunger strikes in the Ireland because of the domination of U.K./Great Britain/England then it is a purposeful hunger strike and it took a coalition of a good many groups and individuals…. we have so many different factions in this country it is hard to build the necessary coalition. I was hoping that more would come from the Occupy movement ; the best example I can think of in a “movement” of people coming together is Act Up — there were many factions until they coalesced. Lillian Faderman describes: “The Story of the Struggle” and illustrates how the different factions eventually worked together to get better treatments (after struggling through the denial and mockery of the Reagan era).
One of the largest coalitions ever in education was for the original Title I (Title I before they altered it to Chapter I)… it included Title III funds for innovation in states. Jim Guthrie was a noted finance expert who would say “you cannot have both equity and excellence” but then he would work doggedly with school committees and state policy makers to help them create a balance (rather than sit back mockingly and say “you aint’ gonna get what you want”)… (I believe Wyoming was one of the states he worked in whether it was local school goals and budget construction or creating funding formulas at the state level -they work for a time and then they have to be re-examined)
************
Even with Title I people complained too much was dominated by the feds ; Edith Green amendment was to set that “correction” balancing power of the states — but Title III actually did that with some R&D funds — which are now being squandered to build experimental tests a la Duncan)
thank you to Lloyd: “I know these facts are true because the family I was born into lived in poverty until our father landed a union job thanks to my godfather and godmother helping him get hired into that union job. Growing up, my family was never wealthy. ” thank you for the comment; I wrote a long response and then deleted it..
Lloyd’s error, and perhaps yours too, is assuming that the country can have both equity and freedom simultaneously. I do not think it can. Safety net, of course. But taking away earned wealth at the point of the government gun by laws won’t produce equity in the first place (because the law makers and the bureaucracy will accumulate wealth), and doing so will require a considerable diminishment in freedom to own the fruit of one’s labor, both physical and intellectual. I choose freedom.
That was the original deal in The Constitution anyway. People have since been meddling with that document out of bleeding hearts, a perfectly admirable sentiment, as long as it doesn’t entail taking away other people’s money to distribute to the needy. Morally that’s theft, even if legal.
It’s a tough choice, either to be Robin Hood = Lenin = Stalin or to be Henry Ford, Bill Gates, or Steve Jobs.
“freedom to own the fruit of one’s labor”
That’s one ginormous fruit for Gates. And of course, it has nothing to do with his own labor.
Let’s face it, laws need to control fruit size and one way of doing it is prohibiting people claiming the fruits of other people’s labor as their own.
Lovely use of the metaphor. Limiting fruit size is the essence of socialism. I don’t see him as stealing the labor of others.
J. H. Underhill
“Lloyd’s error, and perhaps yours too, is assuming that the country can have both equity and freedom simultaneously.”
Your error, Underhill, is the idea that “freedom” can exist (for more than a small amount of people) when resources, rights, and opportunities are so unequal.
Ah, EdDetective. You make a good, practicality based point. I think the argument is fallacious, based on a false definition of “freedom” which amounts to the argument from equity, but you do encourage me to think about what I mean by the word “freedom” and what my assumptions are behind it. Thank you for a clear and responsible observation.
Hi Senõr Swacker:
I would not have any link as per your request. I only read Dr. Jill Stein’s bio from Wikipedia. Whoever graduates from Harvard University, must excel in learning.
However, Duncan, Obama and Chetty (Finn?) are also graduated from Harvard. Their connection and their works are under billionaire club’s (puppet master’s) control. This has been displayed in result.
All MAJOR media and ELITE High Ed are also controlled by billionaire club. As a result, how do I find any correct LINK except their attitude, action and working experiences are exposed by press or talk show host. Again, talk show host like Campbell is not worthy to read or listen from.
In short, I will treat individual whose family life’s function will reflect how he/she handles country public policy. Emotion, intelligence, determination, understanding of people’s differences and nobility towards allies and enemies are important for all leaders to sustain civilization and to bring peace and harmony to community, society, country and the world. May
Hi Senõr Swacker:
I would not have any link as per your request. I only read Dr. Jill Stein’s bio from Wikipedia. Whoever graduates from Harvard University, must excel in learning.
However, Duncan, Obama and Chetty (Finn?) are also graduated from Harvard. Their connection and their works are under billionaire club’s (puppet master’s) control. This has been displayed in result.
All MAJOR media and ELITE High Ed are also controlled by billionaire club. As a result, how do I find any correct LINK except their attitude, action and working experiences are exposed by press or talk show host. Again, talk show host like Campbell is not worthy to read or listen from.
In short, I will treat individual whose family life’s function will reflect how he/she handles country public policy. Emotion, intelligence, determination, understanding of people’s differences and nobility towards allies and enemies are important for all leaders to sustain civilization and to bring peace and harmony to community, society, country and the world. May
I am sorry that my post is repeating twice. I could not edit like in the past. May
Your Trump analysis is so superficial, Ms Ravitch, that I question whether Huffington put you up to this, so that you, yourself, could garner a little extra cash. Doing the Robert Reich, are you?
You have clearly swallowed (and repeated) the HuffPo Trump talking points, yet left both Democrat candidates unscathed, as if both don’t also have the same, (or in Clinton’s case) very different baggage. Was that for effect? Or just laziness?
Given your often insightful and on target critique of American education, I am thoroughly disappointed that the best you can do is offer up is a series of questions probably put forth earlier in the NYT, The Nation, Media Matters, and MSNBC.
Shame on you. I never took you for a propagandist.
I’m not a pundit, so I will offer no political advice. But I did teach school for over 40 years, and I do know one thing. Placing any more power and authority in the Federal Government is a waste of time, money and resources. Mr Trump has, on numerous occasions, said that he supports more local control in education. Any democrat candidate will offer up nothing but more of the same garbage that has been spewed since you were encased in the struggle during the Bush years. Either Hillary or Bernie will continue to build the bloated bureaucracy, throwing good money away, in efforts to come up with more silly “reinventing the wheel” approaches such as Common Core. Is that really your new prescription for educational “progress?”
At what point will the teachers once again be allowed to teach? The classrooms in America are, mostly, dead. Or has your new political hat blinded you from that, still, correct analysis?
Gosh, Tom, I must be a truly naive person not to embrace Donald Trump and his plans to:
Remove pollution controls, deny climate change,;
Deregulate guns so everyone can have one;
Walk out of NATO;
tell our allies to get their own nuclear weapons so nations like Japan and South Korea will feel it necessary to acquire them;
Build a multi/billion dollar wall to stop Mexicans from entering the country illegally;
Ban Muslim immigrants;
Erect trade barriers to the products of other nations;
Deport 11 million undocumented persons;
And Lord knows what else.
I guess we just don’t agree. I could never vote for a blustering braggart and know-it-all whose strong suit is ridicule. I heard former Senator Bob Dole endorsed him, and he said he thought Trump would work out if only he surrounds himself with strong advisors in foreign policy, domestic policy, and economic policy. Ignorance is bliss for some people.
What makes you think that Trump is sincere in his pledge to restore local control to education?
This is the man who told crowd after crowd, far removed from the situation, that thousands of Muslims across the river were having tailgate parties and cheering as the Twin Towers burned and collapsed.
He lied. Straight up. No question.
And with that lie he spat on the graves of the innocent victims and first responders who died that day and in years to come from exposure to the toxins. And added megatons of fuel to a firestorm of blind, ignorant hatred towards those of the Muslim faith.
I could throw him much farther than I trust him.
Romney talked about local control in education as well. It made me consider giving him my vote, as I saw Obama for what he was. But there were too many other things about him that I disagreed with.
I support Sanders. The media makes him out as a buffoon, but the people who own the media don’t own him. I see a connection there. Not a lot of choice between Trump and Hillary, but if that’s the ticket, I’ll do everything I can to keep Trump out of office. Even if it means sucking it up and voting for Clinton.
Trump will never ever get my vote.
I agree with you. Trump will never get my vote.
The editorial board of the Washington Post [Headline:”Donald Trump’s dangerous, nonsensical energy plan”] had the following to say:
“LAST WEEK’S Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll shows that voters think Donald Trump would handle the economy better than would Hillary Clinton. But from his destructive tax proposals to the illogical energy plan he detailed on Thursday, there is little basis for that belief…
Mr. Trump’s plan is dangerous as well as incoherent. In his zeal to revoke environmental regulations, Mr. Trump promises to kill the Environmental Protection Agency’s carbon dioxide rules and pull the country out of the Paris climate agreement. He also promised “clean air and clean water,” but over the past half-century, it has been government regulation, sometimes market-based, that has helped clear up the nation’s air and water. Mr. Trump’s plan would lead to dirtier air and water — and to a massive blow to the global fight against climate change. With great care and difficulty, President Obama persuaded major polluting countries such as China to listen to scientists and move with the United States toward cuts in emissions.
Future generations will suffer if Mr. Trump succeeds in reversing that progress..”
http://wapo.st/1qVJHWh?tid=ss_mail
and of course you believe everything that Mr. Trump says… but on which day? If he said it on Monday will he still say it on Tuesday? I am sorry but you are swallowing a lot of his lies and illusions…. no matter how cynical a person gets about government there is absolutely no reason to go with a fascist who is psychotic.
Mr Trump has, on numerous occasions, said that he supports more local control in education.
jeanhaverhill@aol.com
If you think a fascist regime will let you teach???? anything you believe you should teach? Does Mr. Trump intend to let journalists write anything that would be detrimental to his riches? A woman in Scotland (news journalist) wrote about him and he attacked her (this was before he went after the two news analysts who are disable in the U.S.)
You need to look at Ursula Hegi’s books… about teaching during the reign of Hitler. Or this quote from Irene Nemirovsky who died under a fascist regime because she had no passport …. a brilliant writer with no “papers” to be documented… This is the support you are giving to Trump?
“There has never been a creed so foul… it had not a single redeeming feature, appealing only to the nastiest corners of the human soul.” (Irene Nemirovsky a brilliant writer executed by the Hitler regime….
I am losing patience with educators who think that Trump is going to create anything other than a fascist regime with totalitarian principles and we have seen this before…. He is dangerous… I am sick of all the “jokes” and “cartoons” and it is not funny…. I went on for three more paragraphs but just deleted them…
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/26/books/review/book-review-children-and-fire-by-ursula-hegi.html?_r=0 Children and Fire….
the Nazi regime
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/09/books/review/09gray.html?pagewanted=all a biography has been constructed from her letters and journals/diary and it gives more of the details on her death at the hands of the Nazis because her passport wasn’t up dated or whatever when they ask for
Your Papers”…..
When we teach special education at the University of MA and the topic gets to the medical experiments done on people under Nazi regime, the students don’t know what was going on in the 1930s in Germany…..
But I would think any adult would have some exposure to the novels or the writings or the “All the Light you Cannnot See” that is being passed around among 4 or 5 of my women friends ….
To whoever believes in Republic Party:
Billionaire club does not say like the quote below, but the business tycoon class has shown or displayed their action in similar result, such as:
“The message to the 99% commoners is clear: We have bought your congressmen, we have outsourced your livelihood JOBS, and now we are going to bury/control/manipulate your DEMOCRATIC RIGHTS IN VOTES” – the billionaire club.
[start quote]
QUOTATION OF THE DAY (Wed. Nov. 18, 2015)
“The message to the West is clear: We have bought their buildings, we have bought their companies, and now we are going to buy their art.”
LIU YIQIAN, the Chinese billionaire who made the winning bid at auction for a Modigliani portrait with an offer of $170.4 million with fees.
[end quote]
Would you believe and also acknowledge the truth? Back2basic
“business tycoon class has shown or displayed their action in similar result, such as:…..”
we had the robber barons for some time in this country…… when growing up in the U.S. (rural at the time) local business men (like the ones who delivered groceries to my home; or my niece’s grandfather who ran his own tile shop ) had a concept of “good will” and it was a neighborly concept of living within a community…. That is missing today… and we have those in political office who deny there is anything such as a “community”….
You and I have written before about poetry… it is an excellent way to get the images and concepts into the discussion
jeanhaverhill@aol.com
Guess Professor Underhill has a problem with Robert Reich; but at least Reich had experience within the Washington DC policy domains and continues to demonstrate leadership and sophisticated thinking about labor, employment and unemployment. So does Bernie having done the work for many many years in the senate. We need more people like Bernie and Elizabeth Warren elected into the house of rep and senate. But I don’t know why Professor Underhill used my comment on Robert Reich (whom I admit I admire) and took it to whack Lloyd over the head, At least now, underneath all the name calling, I know that Professor Underhill supports Reagonomics and Margaret Thatcher who claimed to have thought up the ideas before Reagon did. If anyone has the time, read Niall Ferguson’s book on World War I and armaments; I struggled through it because my father was gassed in France while driving an ambulance and I try to understand about that conflict and what goes wrong in foreign policy that we continue to get into these wars… (see my comment last week about Jimmy Carter — and the animosity towards Carter that was fueled by Iran hostage taking )
cx…..Since it’s Memorial Day weekend, don’t bother with Niall Ferguson’s analysis of World War I armaments but instead pick up the Booker Prize winning (paper back) by Pat Barker: Regeneration. (“calls to mind early moderns as Hemingway and Fitzgerald… some of the most powerful antiwar literature in modern English fiction” The Boston Globe)
“but these modern, highly deserving people control the whole world. Isn’t that something to be cheerful? Doesn’t it motivate all the other people to better themselves and reach high?” (by Matt)
Now I have word on this from one of my favorite professors (Dr Kahn) at BU and he described the divergent views in the founding of Harvard U. (as you described) and the “school across the River” known as BU — Harvard was formed with Calvinist values that the elite were elected and would be “saved”… whereas the Methodist version (in the foundations of BU) was quite different … But the Calvinist highly deserving elites as you describe had no way on earth that others (not like them) could be “saved” …. a different interpretation by Methodists or other protestant groups during the reformation based on concepts of “hell” and “being saved”… I know I am going too far into the detail here but you raised a legitimate point about “Deserving people” and trying to motivate others…..and how that plays out in educational philosophy and psychology. The Center for Civic Education in Calabasas has a curriculum on Justice that illustrates some of these concepts in the secular world. So I managed to get it back to education in the public schools and not get too tangential. The teaching of civic education is currently debated in MA with opposing values also — so it is relevant to today (not just the clashing of values in Boston when colleges were founded)
re: the remark that HRC is nothing without a man? (made by our famous Professor Underhill)
…in order to get myself into a better mood on Monday, I am reviewing Macbeth with the 9th grade grandson….
ONE SENTENCE plot encapsulation: Lady Macbeth encourages her husband to be more aggressive in pursuing career options.
And, God help him, Macbeth listens to her. Without her shaming of his sexuality and condemning his natural virtuous restraint, he wouldn’t have done it. She is not a figure whom I would have thought anyone would have wanted to adduce in support of Hillary.
And even Lady Macbeth evinces a strain of guilt of which I see zero in Hillary.
A new meme: Hillary as Lady Macbeth. I love it.
cx… plot is not original with me — Reed Martin and Austin Tichenor
Re “Trump… knows nothing about foreign affairs or domestic issues, other than those that affected him as a real estate developer and businessman”… the scary thing about that, IMO, is when he isn’t even consistent on those issues. Climate change denial on the campaign trail while citing climate change as the basis for some of the work he’s having done on his properties–to me, that shows a total lack of integrity.
To all gullible educators who tend to vote for or to support Trump:
Please acknowledge the difference of your fear between TO WATCH others who suffer under dictatorial governance and TO ACTUALLY LIVE with it.
From reading Aesop’s Fables, stories by Charles Dickens, and Movies by Charles Chaplin, people should boycott all leaders and owners who display in-human act toward workers, young and youth citizens, such as to arouse the hatred, to instill fear or to intimidate by economic threat to their welfare and their family members’ well-being.
Being leaders and owners, these authorized figures should be considerate, kind, tolerant, intelligent and generous to the welfare of all subordinates. It is dangerous for community, society, country and the world whenever people in authority figure display their extremist emotion and illogical mindset.
I do not like to live under both of the extreme righteousness and rightfulness because the leaders will abuse their power or to be taken advantages from malicious opponents accordingly. Hopefully, Americans will lead the world into 21st century the true balance of democracy with responsibility towards civilization from electing American President in 2016 who will
1) support and establish a whole child education in FREE K-12 PUBLIC EDUCATION
2) protect teachers’ due process or tenure rights
3) strengthen rules and regulation in legal system and business field to eliminate all corrupted loop-holes like divert or outsource national assets/ tax invasion PLUS hiring illegal immigrants at all levels from workers to scientists in contract works.
4) respect international accord in sustaining the best GLOBAL environment for all.
5) last but not least, promote democratic rights through all transparent PUBLIC debates which involve to the well-being of citizenry, like expose “bad” POLICIES in foods, drinks (allow corporate to poison children from chemical in oil and in sugar like fries and pop), bad fitness clubs/restaurants, medicines (like concoction advertisement in herb drink), schools and hospitals under-funded (not enough teachers and their assistants or doctors and nurses in certain programs).
I am not the only one to dream about it. Back2basic.
+1 m4potw
Got my vote
You describe the dream of all except that free public education needs to be birth to 12 and respect for international accords needs to be supplemented by the observation that global climate warming is most likely a hoax of socialist nations designed to rob the United States, and also supplemented by a recognition that most of the Asian countries will be putting economic development through coal, oil, and gas well above global climate treaties no matter what they sign, the Chinese communists and the Indian socialists being among the worst. What will happen in Africa and S. America remains to be seen.
Susan: Trump isn’t the only megalomaniac in the world… I was hoping that someone who studied and taught Shakespeare and who went to school at Amherst (a famous private school) would have more subtlety when it comes to understanding of stereotypes and misogyny… Tina Packer wrote: “Women of Will”… following the feminine in Shakespeare’s plays… but the experiences from her work are not the same as teaching in a private school …. the experiences of Tina Parker in theater arts, as director and master teacher– but these nuances are lost on a variety of males who have not lived outside an isolated world of the ego.
Thank you for researching my background. It pleases my vanity.
Subtlety and complexity and nuance have never been my strong points. But you can at least comfort yourself that I’ll be dead before you are and that then your views will have at least one less white male to contend with.
Although I suspect the world of the male ego is eternal. Look at Jesus, Buddah, Mohammed, B. Clinton, B. Obama, D. Trump etc. etc.
I do not know Tina Packer’s book, but I’ll check it out on Amazon at least. Does she say anything about the rather difficult ending of Taming of the Shrew?
I admit to being a “Shrews” but this one hasn’t yet been tamed….
I do not know Tina Packer’s book, but I’ll check it out on Amazon at least. Does she say anything about the rather difficult ending of Taming of the Shrew?
jeanhaverhill@aol.com
You sent me the background in 2014 and I saved it in my emails along with ads for the books you sent me… I didn’t have to do any research other than go into my email files that I saved..
jeanhaverhill@aol.com
I know how Zeferelli finessed it in his film version. I know how I treated it when I directed it. That speech of submission remains a difficulty, however.
Ah Jean, of course you are correct, but mysogney is the least of the reasons… just the one that makes him the WRONG man TO represent America INTHE 21 ST CENTURY.. AND A laughing stock among world leaders.
Jean got to his link… it is the most facsinating analysis of Trump that I have read.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/the-mind-of-donald-trump/480771/
Ah, here’s the right place to comment. I DID read the whole article, unsophisticated as I am about the various frameworks available for personality analysis. I concur with Susan that “it is the most fascinating analysis of Trump that I have read.”
The comparison to Andrew Jackson is especially illuminating. I can see now why so many voters might vote for Trump because he offers them a compelling hero narrative of which they themselves might become a part, small and meaningless as most lives are. At least they might take part in Making America Great Again. At least they can say they are Americans.
The article opines that the one thing Trump’s candidacy explicitly lacks is a sense of “why,” an inner, personal, reflective vision of the purpose of his presidency. I disagree.
I think he actually has four:
1)To so crush ISIS, and maybe AlQuaida too, that we don’t have to worry about domestic terrorism for 100 years. But I think he will ‘do business’ with Iran.
2) To build enough of a wall to say he did it.
3)To unleash American business putting American workers back to work and expanding the economy (nothing like a war and huge public works to bring back prosperity—buy your arms and construction stocks now before they go out of sight).
4)To guarantee conservative dominance of the Supreme Court for 25 to 50 years. (It won’t make any difference; in my view Roe v. Wade is here to stay because most people like the ‘right’ to privacy.).
Surely those 4 goals are large enough for a first term to satisfy what the article argues is The Donald’s immense, huge, insatiable, narcissistic, grandiose authoritarianism.
If he can be satisfied with feasible goals, he will do well. If he can’t, there is disaster ahead. Such figures as The Donald DO tend to overreach. Xerxes, Alexander, Caesar, Mehmet II, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Chavez, Castro . . .
““Some teachers are strong, others are not,” he said. “If we are not looking at who is getting strong gains and those who are not we are missing an opportunity to upgrade teaching across the system.” quote in the Boston Globe from the Commissioner (who tells everyone to join up with Jeb Bush and he pushes the Sir Michael Barber implementation everywhere he goes…. These tests are not valid; they have no predictive validity; they have not proven reliable (you get different scores whether you take it on computer or pencil/paper) and now they want to add “personality theory” to measure the students?
HU…he is a lunatic… untrustworthy and dangerous. You speak of goals… he has only one… to please his inner voice that tells him he is NUBMER UNO, and everyone else is last! Peligroso… DANGEROUS… there can be no argument for putting a nut in charge of our nation.
Susan: I admit I didn’t read the entire article …. but this sentence sums it up for me … “Researchers rank Richard Nixon as the nation’s most disagreeable president. But he was sweetness and light compared with….” trump….
We suffered enough under Nixon…. I like Rick Perlstein’s books (Reagan/Nixon) and they don’t go into the personality theory but they give vast implications for choosing a president and understanding the political scene. Unfortunately, I felt we suffered under Nixon — and it was only later when I read Perlstein’s book that I could make much sense of it.
As far a psychopathy and megalomaniacs… Howard Hughes was one who isolated himself with his money and lived in the “introverted” world; Trump has to act his psychosis out in the world and harm everyone around him….
Jean – don’t post an article you haven’t read in its entirety. And always consider the source (a psychologist… gee, let’s listen to the “expert”). Really? “It is as if Trump has invested so much of himself in developing and refining his socially dominant role that he has nothing left over to create a meaningful story for his life, or for the nation. It is always Donald Trump playing Donald Trump, fighting to win, but never knowing why.”
The sentence that sums it up for you (about the researchers who ranked Nixon…), does not sum it up for me. Besides, you didn’t read the entire article. Context. At least you admitted it. Accountability.
I didn’t post it; I commented on it…. and I chose the one sentence that fit with my own opinion …. I looked through the first several/many paragraphs…. saw that they used the OCEAN model which is one personality theory and then I knew most of the other “junk” about Trump… so I didn’t need to read it… We taught that OCEAN model in University of MA and it is really not a whole lot better than the Duckworth model of “grit”…. I personally don’t give Trump that much time any more to read anything about him and if he comes on the TV the TV goes off immediately… That was my thinking in looking at the OCEAN description of Trump…. there is no substance there and any personality theory will just come up with the same term in my way of thinking he is a psychopath and a dangerous one.
this was part of the discussion in 2014; about 8 emails …. and comments
“Jean:
It is indeed puzzling that the national department supposed to be interested in education isn’t. I wonder whether the CCSS will surface as another failure of the Obama administration to do anything right.
Where in Mass. are you? I went to college at……
Harlan
John H. Underhill
*******************
P.S. We never did agree that Obama couldn’t’ do anything right… so I think the conversations ended at that time… This past week I quoted Charlie Savage as to what is disappointing with the Obama administration and the Power Wars (Savage’s book)…. but that is different from saying that “Obama has another failure ” and can’t do anything right. … which seems to be the only opinion that you have/had in 2014 and now it is 2016……
“https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/give-and-take/201309/goodbye-mbti-the-fad-won-t-die” this is one reason why I would not read the entire article…. and also my furor that they are using these models of personality theory and have already tested 3000 students in Boston on “grit” and NAEP will be testing on “grit”…. That plus the fact that the article describes the personality traits of a psychopath like Trump — the article goes into the trash can…
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/give-and-take/201309/goodbye-mbti-the-fad-won-t-die do you want your child tested on “Grit”? that will only result in the report that says kids are lazy and unmotivated, have feckless parents and horrible teachers. And, when Petrilli doesn’t get the results he wants on “grit” he says the kids have a self-reference bias and they lied (he doesn’t admit that the questionnaires were not appropriate to measure anything with students in the schools of Boston)….
The libertarian party didn’t do much to improve the situation; they are complaining that Bill Weld isn’t a good fit with their ideals so maybe they won’t even get their expected 10%… here is Curmudgucation’s latest article
http://curmudgucation.blogspot.com/2016/05/how-to-defeat-trump.html
Massachusetts Teachers Association is opposed to measuring “grit” … (or any personality theory)… this is the reason for my strong reaction to the article… I cannot see it as an intellectual exercise when so much is at stake …
Here is a statement from an MTA member who is also opposing these tests to measure anybody’s theory of personality. “The newest trend, measuring grit and perseverance, and somehow finding a metric-performance scale to tie to teacher effectiveness is truly frightening, implying that as a classroom teacher we are somehow accountable for temperaments and personality traits. Please speak up and refuse to allow our students to be reduced to data, please join the MTA as we fight for the schools our students deserve!” quote from MTA member
Even Hawking is puzzled by Trump’s success.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/may/31/stephen-hawking-donald-trump-popularity-inexplicable-and-brexit-spells-disaster
He also makes a case for the UK to stay in the EU, btw. Those trying to get the UK out of EU say, the UK gives more money to the EU than gets back. Sounds like some people here in the US who are against supporting free health care, education, $15/hr minimum wage.
Hi Harlan Underhill:
People have their own lenses to view pros and cons in all aspects in life according to their karma and current experience in their choice of living lifestyle or ideology.
However, people will agree to have or to treasure their ultimate survival to be respected.
Let’s take our WHOLE body to be an example of the Earth. All internal and external organs are considered as all countries on Earth.
Please remember that there is some organs’ function that is more important than others regarding a sudden death. However, if people ignore or bully the insignificant function of less important organs, people will be slowly sick and die.
In the same vein, some countries are more powerful than others. But if all civilized countries did not help to alleviate the sufferance of all poor countries and its people, then in the end, the Earth will be slowly polluted in air, water and soil. Yes, we are going to face or to suffer our own demise sooner or later.
In short, to help us means to alleviate the pain of the unfortunate. Back2basic.
PS:
1) Nurture K-12 whole child education = nurture our golden age in nursing homes where we can count on our own civilized and conscientious personal helpers, nurses, workers, administrators and doctors, pharmacists, surgeons…
2) Respect international accords = protect our own health = eliminate loop-holes in trashing other countries for profits from crooked business tycoons (Ex: ocean, land and air are polluted by oil, gas, and much more dangerous chemicals…)
Love your metaphors… which will fall on deaf ears…. that one lives too deep in the bowels of the earth to hear truth.
Thank you my dearest spirit sister. How is your health lately? I have good news to share with you. My spirit is absolutely awakened after my cataract surgery for both eyes.
My eyes were so bad that they caused my health and my driving confidence to be near to zero or below zero, recently. When I cannot see or read properly, and I cannot walk and talk properly, I consider that my intellectual ability descends to the hopeless state of mind.
Five weeks after both eyes’ surgery, I regain my confidence in my golden age. I only start reading Dr. Ravitch actively a week now. I must miss lots of excellent threads.
This particular thread draws my attention and I am focus on reading it. Although doctor reassures me to read books and to watch TV after two weeks, I am cautious in taking easy with my new lenses. As a result, I only read one or max two hours per day in different short duration of time like 15 min and 30 min per section. By the end of June, I think that my eyes will function normally.
I will email you later. Lots of love. May.
“My eyes were so bad that they caused my health and my driving confidence to be near to zero or below zero, recently.”
Yikes! While I sympathize with you over the health issues, I hope your lack of driving confidence led you to not drive at least in low light conditions! It is amazing how the breakdown of one “system” can affect other aspects of our health, both mental and physical. I hope you are well on your way to full recovery.
Dear spirit -sister,I have already sent you an email with a beautiful photo that I took and edited, to celebrate your new vision. I had cataract surgery 25 years ago, after a lifetime of wearing thick glasses. It is miraculous. love Susan
Spirit Sister: I had cataract surgery on one eye (other will be done soon)… in the same eye with the cataract surgery I had to have a later retinal surgery (that doesn’t happen to everyone so don’t worry)…. it was determined to be a “hole” in the retina completely separate from the cataract (and not like macular degeneration which comes along more slowly). My eyeglasses correct my vision to 20/20 but evening/night driving times with the light differences I am only at 20/40 so I am glad the eye doctor explained the difference. It keeps me more careful when I have to drive at night. Also, my reading habits have changed so i read with one eye (but I am able to do everything else with both eyes)… Funny how the body has it’s own timelines Good luck with your recovery — my friends going through this have all had good results and I think you will be satisfied once you adjust.
This particular thread draws my attention and I am focus on reading it. Although doctor reassures me to read books and to watch TV after two weeks, I am cautious in taking easy with my new lenses. As a result, I only read one or max two hours per day in different short duration of time like 15 min and 30 min per section. By the end of June, I think that my eyes will function normally.
jeanhaverhill@aol.com
Trump is a con man who is totally unfit to be President. He is once again preying on people. Today’s New York Times has headline: “Former Trump University Workers Call the School a “Lie” and an “Scheme” in Testimony”.
Here is a partial quote:
…In blunt testimony revealed on Tuesday, former managers of Trump University, the for-profit school started by Donald J. Trump, portray it as an unscrupulous business that relied on high-pressure sales tactics, employed unqualified instructors, made deceptive claims and exploited vulnerable students willing to pay tens of thousands for Mr. Trump’s insights.
One sales manager for Trump University, Ronald Schnackenberg, recounted how he was reprimanded for not pushing a financially struggling couple hard enough to sign up for a $35,000 real estate class, despite his conclusion that it would endanger their economic future. He watched with disgust, he said, as a fellow Trump University salesman persuaded the couple to purchase the class anyway.
“I believe that Trump University was a fraudulent scheme,” Mr. Schnackenberg wrote in his testimony, “and that it preyed upon the elderly and uneducated to separate them from their money.”
For Mr. Trump, whose presidential campaign hinges on his reputation as a businessman, the newly unsealed documents offer an unflattering snapshot of his career since branching out, over the past decade, from building skyscrapers into endeavors that cashed in on his name to sell everything from water and steaks to ties and education…”
Trump’s personality can be found in the book: Leaders, Fools and Imposters by Manfred Kets de Vries. “Impostors [become] skilled in colluding with their audience in order to create an ambiance of make-believe and appear grandiose… ; the elaborate lies the impostor makes up to impress and audience ; and, in his zeal, the impostor may be convinced of their truth…. Bullock’s masterly biography of Adolf Hitler is a study of a dictator’s deception of an entire nation…. [how he] managed to dramatize, on a world stage, his fantasies of domination and force, the cult of the hero and racial purity… (etc._) leaving a trail of horror behind him… The cynicism, deceit and brutal exploitation that lay behind his imposture was finally exposed, fatal late in the day.
G. K. Chesterton once remarked that a really accomplished impostor is like Napoleon on a desert island. Most impostors do not remain Napoleons for long. Eventually their hidden flaws surface and they unmask themselves; their problems with reality testing give them away.
It is not easy to resist the individual who signals, “Trust me, I’ll take care of all your needs, and it is particularly difficult to recognize and fight the forces of greed” and, in the case of Trump, the hate mongering that feeds the scapegoating of others (the Mexican, the weak females, the reporters/news analysts, the Muslims , etc)
The author differentiates pathological lying from Psuedologica phantastica (Fenichel’s concept)…and it has a lot to do with the reality testing — a hallmark of psychosis.
So please I hope no one else will tell me he is like Andrew Jackson. I could build you a 3 to 5 page essay on how Trump is like President Johnson but I hope that many would expose the fallacies in this — Trump is not normal. He is an aberration and he is on the extreme of any “bell curve” when it comes to self-aggrandizement, psychopathy, and abnormal behavior.
You and I are on the same page. Trump is insane, and cannot be trusted. He is very, very sick.
I love what you said about imposters. I will quote it when I finish a piece I am writing on MENDACITY, for Oped. Below is the comment which posted with an article about deceptive practice in advertising.. The editors at Oped flagged it and asked me to promote it to an article. Here is what I wrote in February:
END LYING NOW!
I am asking you, if you are reading this, to begin a campaign of demanding punishment for lies that destroy lives!
CALL OUT THE LIARS, demand THAT they go to jail for crimes. Call out the media, when they disseminate ‘lies’ and call it ‘balancing news.’ Write and call in your outrage.
As I said in the introduction: Anyone who, in the 1960s, read Vance Packard’s ‘The Hidden Persuaders’ are not surprised, but it is time THE current media propaganda IS RECOGNIZED as creators of fear-mongering and promoter of lies that was prevalent in 1939 Germany. click here
We need to end this AGE OF MENDACITY where people plea that “everyone was doing it” (business as usual)!
THIS WAS the “reason’ that the guys at Libor and Standard and Poors,’ gave. They figured it was OK to sell junk to our people. Their values. After all — they lied, got away with it, and never went to jail! In fact the CEOs were rewarded for their mendacity, walking away with millions, while their companies settled and paid a pittance for penance.
And the media sold this to the people. Look, Bernie and I graduated HS together. It does not surprise me that he recognizes what I do. We were there when things were different… not perfect… but without tv and thus without the incessant noise and demands on our attention and our values! That ubiquitous screen, which sells ON HUGE SCREENS, THEIR VERSIONS OF THINGS… IN HD was ABSENT!
Many of us, with a decent and free education (Bernie and I graduated in 1959) had some prior knowledge with which to analyze what we heard on the radio. And, we had time to think critically. We heard Nixon and listened to the news. Today, people can barely have time to relax; many hold down 2 jobs and have to meet the needs of kids.
I have written for years about what I KNOW — how studies show that fast images, and sound-bites changed the brain or our citizenry. Images enter the brain on a different neurological path than do words. Sustained attention is difficult for many. Bits of information, and loads of misinformation at blistering speeds compete in a 24/7 static field.
Humans simply tune out the noise, and this is what the oligarchs need to happen — ALL THOSE TALKING HEADS EMITTING LIES… and the studies show how maths and lies become TRUTHS with re-telling.
For a very long time, I have written about the corruption of the media, and in fact, I WROTE A MEDIA UNIT AT EAST SIDE MIDDLE SCHOOL IN THE NINETIES, which introduced 13 year old seventh grade students to THE SUBTLE MESSAGES IN THE COMMERCIAL.
How else, I asked, can you KNOW if the VALUES THAT ARE OFFERED are VALID and productive ones for your own well-being and that of the society which you love. “DO THEIR VALUES contradict what parents or community value?”
In their weekly LETTERS these children wrote about what they saw and heard, and many related that they recognized the importance of KNOWING WHO IS PAYING for the message. They became critical of ads!
(OHMYGOSH! OK, so you know why I had to be removed from talking to our future citizens!
Well, THEY AINT KIDS ANY LONGER! They are ALL in their twenties and thirties now, so I wonder if they remember what they learned WITH SUSAN LEE SCHWARTZ?
I have at THIS blog, many times recommended this NOT TO MISS book,”IN THE ABSENCE OF THE SACRED,” by Jerry Mander; (YES, that IS his name!) IT IS NOT ABOUT RELIGION! The warning is implicit, as he describes the way it was before tv. Good values are those that benefit a society. That is, as my former students know, an EQ… AN ESSENTIAL TRUTH.
Elders passed on those things that benefited a society.
Lies hurt tribes because knowing what lurked ‘out there,’ was the secret to success and a survival behavior! Which begs the question: HOW CAN WE SURVIVE if our leaders and legislators and our justices lie with impunity?
I am not saying that it is merely television lies are what is killing democracy.
I am saying that LYING by those when trust to ‘promote the common welfare,’ is INTOLERABLE because it is DESTRUCTIVE.
That is why dictators ultimately destroy their states, and why our founding fathers created the document whiter legislature has made unrecognizable to bernie and I, and anyone who knows what it actually says and what it MEANS for a democracy to EXIST!!
The reason that lies are hurtful is easy to comprehend. In the real world, what you DON’T KNOW MAY KILL YOU, and thus, built into the human genome is the desire for FACTS… well, until the advent of television and that screen… that window onto the world… not the real one, but the one that the puppet-masters of media want you to believe. Like a world where a bully should have THAT PARTICULAR finger –THE ONE that pushes that RED button. OY!
Under what law would you prosecute the liars? (E. g. Hillary, Obama, Ted Cruz, etc.)
Or would you prefer to just clap them in prison as under the Czar in Old Russia or under Lenin and Stalin in the USSR, or under Castro in Cuba, or under Pol Pot, or Mao , or Putin’s Russia where assassination is used to silence criticism . . . without any trial?
That’s why Citizens United is virtuous because it permits the slandered and maligned to speak back J. H. Underhill
What the heck are you mumbling about now. Go take a walk or something. He’s lunatic.. nuts., wacko, crazy, untrustworthy,!
You say ‘put them in jail.’ Can’t be done (legally) without due process.
Professor H.U. perhaps you had better stick to your Shakespeare…. He at least had a way of putting into plays the extremes that we just do not have words for ; Trump is off the charts…. on every trait that is important in a leader. Finding similarities with past presidents is not going to bring Trump within the realm of normality or make him acceptable.
It would be far better if you would stick to the interpretations of extreme “exceptions” such as the entitlement expressed by Richard, Duke of York … his claims to privileges as justifying his subtle, false, and treacherous behavior.
Then since the heavens have shaped my body so
Let hell make crook’d my mind to answer it.
I have no brother, I am like no brother;
And this word “love” which keyboards call divine
Be resident in men line one another
And not in me. I am myself alone.
I loved the version of Richard III where he came crashing through in a German tank… and this is what I see in Trump…. destruction and scorched earth everywhere for his own self-aggrandizement. And the mind is so “crook’d” it defies the instruments we have to measure –unless there are some newer ones I haven’t seen based on the Manson crew of Helter Skelter or some other hate mongering phases of adolescence gone berserk in attempting to form an identity process. He has been excused because he keeps churning over the money (the same way some churn over armaments and bombs) and , well because the teenage boys think he will attract “babes” so they will get lucky if they hang around with Trump. No I am not attempting to make humor ; I am describing the processes of self-identity when things get seriously distorted — as has happened in Trump’s case.
I hope you are not right. What else except the Presidency could a Trump aspire to, considering he has everything else material a man could want. I think he is at base a true patriot. Hillary not so.
Who in literature or philosophy said there’s good ambition and bad ambition? Probably some Greek. Let’s hope he’s Pericles rather than Socrates’s little friend, Alcibiades.
These are great times, when we can see being played out in our own era the timeless longterm themes of strategy and politics. Elizabeth I had her wars, and prevailed. The United States had their Revolution and prevailed. Napoleon had his wars and did not. World War I is STILL not fully concluded owing to Wilson’s mid-east policies.
Tyranny vs. Freedom, the eternal (hyperbole) battle, and we all get to participate on whichever side we like. All times call for courage, and this one as much as ever because the true issues are obscured (by which I mean oil).
That is what is at stake, global freedom or global tyranny in the age of oil.
THAT, at least, I think Trump understands: control the oil and control the globe.
as the young people say … just OMG…. there is no reasoning with this Professor H.U. I had better take a different course with a different faculty member; he has already called me a “shrew” and i will sure be flunking this class so I had best get out of here fast . ’cause it sure won’t do me any good to tell him about the patriots that I know about….
he is at base a true patriot.
jeanhaverhill@aol.com
LOL. Love your responses. HU lives in a bubble in his head.
Really ? You think ‘due process’ operate int his nation, when innocent people, are in jail for months, because they cannot get a pro bono attorney to represent them. You live in a bubble in your head…here’s American Justice for you, if all the banisters that escaped due process for stealing America’s wealth is not enough to convince you. In Today’s News:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/02/nyregion/rich-defendants-request-to-judges-lock-me-up-in-a-gilded-cage.html?emc=edit_th_20160602&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=50637717
Your last paragraph about Citizens United made me wonder whether you’re actually a “troll”, Harlan.
But there are actually people who are fervently in favor of the ruling. So I guess that’s that.
Btw: Trump isn’t insane, IMO, people. He’s calculating and ambitious and will do whatever he can to further his agenda. Whether it’s through lies, truth, bullying, cajoling…he’s playing us like a fine Stradivarius.
Sorry dear…he is a real psychopath, unable to parse truth and capable of doing whatever the voice in his head says. This is not my opinion. This is the valuation of dozens of very capable psychologists.
Jackson was not a nice man, in the least, according to the article, angrier than I had ever been aware. But is Trump worse? Or American character more like PRE-nazi Germans than we care to admit?
J. H. Underhill
Harlan,
Trump is a boor and a vulgarian who knows nothing about foreign or domestic policy. He is rude, crude, a bully. What do you like about him? He will shatter all our alliances with other nations and make the world a far more dangerous place.
I don’t like him at all. I just like Hillary less. She is Obama with corruption, in my eyes.
J. H. Underhill
This has nothing to do with disliking one more than the other. In fact, I don’t think I’ve liked many presidents. Maybe Truman, the first Adams and Washington. And no, I don’t respect Jefferson.
I don’t trust Hillary’s real agenda but she doesn’t disgust me. She’s just another politician doing what career politicians do, and for sure she won’t be as bad as Nixon or Reagan, because a lot of Hillary’s reputation was manufactured by the hate mongers in the GOP who have made a career out of stirring up hate for the Clintons. It certainly worked you HU.
But The Donald is worse than disgusting. There aren’t enough disgusting words to describe him. I will vote in the general election, and I won’t vote for The Donald. I’d rather see HRC in the White House as president than that rotting, diseased, poisonous fungus.
Passions are running high, I see. Reagan wasn’t so bad. Nixon either, though he did imagine he might get away with lying. At least he had the good sense to resign before an impeachment trial.
Trump’s probably saner than he seems, and he wants to do a few things of which I approve, including ‘getting rid’ of Common Core (whatever that means), which I think would have found more sympathy on this blog.
Hillary’s crimes need no GOP ginning up; they are real and palpable, and long established, the most recent especially in the area of national security and the emails and Benghazi and bribes to the Clinton foundation for State Department decisions. Pay to play at the highest levels.
You know the joke, that her first act as President will be to pardon herself. I think the country can survive either of them, though it wouldn’t be pretty in either case. Who’s to blame? Both parties, the Democrats for twice electing a President who let things fall apart, and the Republicans for letting him get away with it and then fielding a plethora of weak candidates.
I am puzzled by the shrill psychoanalytic psychopathologizing being posted. Some of you seem to be really frightened. How come?
Boorishness is not a crime. Secure borders are not a crime. A revived economy with more jobs is not a crime. Not messing with SS or Medicare sounds good to me. Killing Obamacare to be replaced by cross state competition, health savings accounts, and cheap catastrophic coverage would help in the economic revival. Rebuilding the strength of the military to where it could once again fight two wars at the same time would give the Chinese and Iran pause and put people to work. And speaking of Reagan, reviving the Star Wars missile defense couldn’t do any harm could it? So what’s to fear?
Thus, I say let the best megalomaniac win.
Whether President Clinton II or President Trump, Hail To The Chief.
Get out and vote, and bring everyone you know with you, including the dead in Chicago.
IT’S AMERICA!!!!!! YOU ARE LIVING IN INTERESTING TIMES!!!!
(A Republic is a tricky thing to hold on to, isn’t it, Dr. Franklin?)
so now I am a “shrill shrew”…. and psychoanalyzing is not the same as the latest “OCEAN” theory or “Grit” theory but it is based on the human behaviors that have been studied by anthropologists (Virginia Brian would always tell me to stop psychoanalyzing when he wrote here because he was a “true scientist” ). The key is to not make false equivalence…. so we need to get back to the Sesame Street “one of these things is not like the other.” In psychoanalyzing it is a description of a person’s character from observations. When we get into causes and try to predict what someone will do in a particular situation that is when the science falls apart and the superstitions can enter. It was basically a scientific method of description the same as in a chemistry or physics lab… and I don’t see it as being “Shrill”… Susan’s descriptions of mendacity is an essential lesson for 5th or 6th grade when we have lessons on fact /opinon. Or, when the students in the middle school are asked to compare and contrast (how are bacteria and virus similar; how are they different)?. The fundamental thoughts and ideas expressed in writing — perhaps not as well taught and , in haste, not well practiced (as we right today in short blurbs that are totally without context and scattered around… or we reduce complexity to bumper sticker slogans .
Harlan: “Thus, I say let the best megalomaniac win.”
Yeah, let’s make this a race too, as everything else. 🙂
I wonder if a call for competition is in the Bible somewhere. It sure sounds more and more like a religious conviction.
I have to admit, Harlan has been the most interesting person to talk to us from the “other side”.
http://www.ratemyteachers.com/harlan-underhill/1036893-t
http://www.ztcollege.com/profiles/Falstaff
Too bad, he is so convinced about the possibility to separate personal and public morals.
Underhill said: “That’s why Citizens United is virtuous because it permits the slandered and maligned to speak back”
—
I find the “money = speech” perspective to be very strange.
You are essentially saying that billionaires should be allowed to manipulate national public opinion, on a mass scale, because they are “defending themselves” from the people who wrote a blog post (and cannot afford much more than that.)
You are not siding with liberty (for all), you are siding with power (for the hypothetically fittest)!
Some background on the money = speech thing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckley_v._Valeo
That one got to me, too, Ed. Citizens United is one of the hugest travesties of justice seen in my lifetime.
Beginning of June. Time to go back to work, for me. Thank you all for providing such lively riposte. See you for the inauguration.
the oil wars; you are thinking about the 1950s or the 70s… younger people today are working on alternatives, solar, wind … my nephews in their 60s are already into these alternatives and trying to get better financing for the alternative and renewable energy systems. You and I are passé, H.U. . And, I believe that younger people know the costs of war and many are more anti-war even than we were in the 60s… On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society
Author: Dave Grossman
Publisher: Back Bay Books
2009 by David A. Grossman
Any way you can work this into your theater courses this summer?
Susan; You reminded me of a favorite line I keep in my head: “I smell mendacity”… and I think that line came from Cat on A Hot Tin Roof but I could be wrong. Anyway, we have way too many gullible people in this country . Mendacity detectors might have to be installed in the iPhones or GPS or APS systems in order to help our students? Just kidding with you ; but I remember when propaganda was actually taught in schools . You are correct in bringing in Vance Packard and not enough people would know what he was saying whereas they might have heard of Marshall McLuhan (I’m not sure of spelling and if I go to look it up I will lose this place where I comment. It was brought to the fore in the “brainwashing” right after the Korean War ) What troubles me the most right now is even firms that would formerly be doing “research” are only doing hyper marketing for sales of products and colleges have “public relations” departments that are supposedly doing “research” . When the Governor of MI fails in a key ingredient such as water for people they bring in the lawyers and the public relations firms and the taxpayers spend millions as they did in NJ paying lawyers to publish Governor Christie’s innocence over Bridgegate (was it about $15 million lawyer bill?)
Open another tab on your browser and you won’t lose your comment. At least that is the way I finally learned to combat the lost comment problem. 🙂
thanks, I will try that… something for me to practice with my computer skills…
Trump doesn’t have the ability to take any criticism. He strikes back like an egotistical bully who has no regard for others that ‘get in his way’. This is not what we need for President. (He was endorsed by North Korea as a wise candidate. )
Today’s Washington Post had the headline: “Trump’s personal, racially tinged attacks on federal judge alarms legal experts”.
Donald Trump’s highly personal, racially tinged attacks on a federal judge overseeing a pair of lawsuits against him have set off a wave of alarm among legal experts, who worry that the Republican presidential candidate’s vendetta signals a remarkable disregard for judicial independence.
That attitude, many argue, could carry constitutional implications if Trump becomes president.
U.S. District Judge Gonzalo Curiel, who is handling two class-action lawsuits against Trump University in San Diego, has emerged as a central target for Trump and his supporters in recent weeks. The enmity only escalated after Curiel ordered the release of embarrassing internal documents detailing predatory marketing practices at the for-profit educational venture; that case is set to go to trial after the November election.
“I have a judge who is a hater of Donald Trump, a hater. He’s a hater,” Trump said at a campaign rally in San Diego, adding that he believed the Indiana-born judge was “Mexican.”
He also suggested taking action against the judge after the election: “They ought to look into Judge Curiel, because what Judge Curiel is doing is a total disgrace…
Thank you for this strong endorsement of the Democratic candidates, and denunciation of Donald Trump.
The thought of him as President is truly horrifying, for all of the reasons you gave, and more.
I admire some of Bernie Sanders’ ideas, but I support Hillary Clinton as the more electable, more pragmatic,
more experienced candidate. She is brilliant and dedicated to improving this country, and particularly improving
the lives of women and children everywhere.
I am a great supporter of President Obama, and will be equally proud of President Hillary Clinton.
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