Thanks to a reader for introducing me to the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Here is one definition:
“One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision.”
—Bertrand Russell, The Triumph of Stupidity
We see all about us people who are certain they know how to “reform” education, even though they never taught, never engaged in deep study, and know very little about teaching and learning. The less they know, the more certain they are.
On the other hand, those who have experience are likely to say, “It depends.” Or “do no harm.” Or, try it out on a small scale first.” Or, “how do you know? What’s the evidence?”
Unfortunately, many governors and legislators are certain they know how to “fix” education, and they impose their wrong-headed solutions in people who work with children every day. The more chaos they create, the happier they are. Or they stupid or malicious? Or are they exemplars of the Dunning-Kruger Effect?
Diane Ravitch's blog 
I call that the 666 Effect —
— William Butler Yeats • “The Second Coming”
Let me try that link again:
http://www.potw.org/archive/potw351.html
Never attribute to the Devil that which is adequately explained by Satan.
I would caution against buying Satan’s explanations.
Reblogged this on David R. Taylor-Thoughts on Texas Education.
Reblogged this on The Sharing Tree.
“The Dunc-an-Cover Effect” is more apt in this case:
When Arne Duncan makes a pronouncement, you’d best hide under the desk.
Passionate conviction is a whole lot easier when you do not understand the difficulties. Understanding is the beginning of wIsdom.
“governors and legislators are certain they know how to “fix” education”
K-ooger, K-ooger.
“There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don’t know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don’t know we don’t know.”
Donald Rumsfeld
And look where that got us…
LOVE IT!
Hmm, reminds me of a Mark Twain quote: “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it.”
Jim
I have a different theory. Once a critical mass of influential/powerful people adopt a theory, it doesn’t matter at all whether the theory proves to be correct.
We have to catch it before too many influential people stake careers/reputations on it, or we’re stuck with it forever.
It’s a variation of too big to fail 🙂 Too many to fail.
It’s why I think “bipartisan” is WAY over-rated.
Your theory seems correct as well. It’s a variation on, “Follow the money.” Billionaires entice legislators to follow their lead through campaign donations. This explains much of the path of “reform,” which has co-opted legislators on both sides of the aisle. At this point I think it’s fair to compare many of our politicians to street walkers. They name their price and provide billionaires with the service they require. It certainly explains VAM, a flawed metric right from the Bill Gates playbook. Nobody, thus far, has been able to toss it. In fact, one court ruled that even if it is inaccurate, it’s the law and must be followed. Money and ignorance rule!
I don’t think it even takes a critical mass.
Often it’s just a handful of people who decide policy. The rest follow like a bunch of lemmings
And the policymakers don’t care a whit for reality because, as a G. W Bush aide (allegedly Karl Rove) put it “We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality — judiciously, as you will — we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”
Yes, study — that and suffer the consequences, like the American GI’s who came back from Iraq in a casket or missing limbs or all the innocent Iraqis who died.
As Jon pointed out with the Yeats quote above, “The best lack all conviction..”
They just don’t give a damn because they have nothing to lose.
All these “experiments” on other people’s lives don’t affect them and when (not if) they fail, the policymakers just move on to something else.
Too many politicians are actors that posture, and their “moral” compass always points to the bank.
Like yeast, or leavening of bread, just a little bit spreads and spoils everything. The original form is unrecognizable and you can’t sort it out after the fact.
Too many big, arrogant egos that don’t know how to admit their mistakes. If we keep up the pressure, they will start to find convenient underlings to blame.
“One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision.”
This powerful quote applies to all including the educators who participate in this blog and the blog owner, Daine Ravitch. Everything that is blogged here and all the comments on these subjects make me feel that these people think that they have all the answers, i.e., they are certain. I see no imaginative ideas coming out of these discussions other than total opposition to all ideas. They do not think it is necessary to provide reliable sources to support their comments. Other blogs are not reliable sources.
There is lot of diatribe here.
I do not see any new main stream educators that stumble on to this blog survive the onslaught of the many who dominate this blog. Finally in my opinion this is not the “site to discuss education for all”, but for just a few. This is social media gone berserk.
Therefore according to Bertrand Russell they all fall into this category.
Just wondering. You say : “I see no imaginative ideas coming out of these discussions other than total opposition to all ideas.”
NO, TOTAL, ALL.
Why do you bother to comment on this blog?
Of course, words like “everything”, “no”, “total”, “all” indicate certainty, which is more than a little ironic given the Bertrand Russell quote being referred to.
Some people just don’t appreciate irony.
But they sure appreciate hypocrisy, saying “This blog excels on diatribe which is morally wrong”, just after calling this blog “social media gone berserk”.
Raj-If you are truly interested in solutions, you should take a lot at the What Works website from the federal government. They list tons of strategies and approaches that have been successful in many subjects and grades. If you search standardized testing or the Common Core, there is nothing listed in their archives. http://ies.ed.gov/ncee/wwc/default.aspx
For the first time some one is actually discussing something and I am glad. I am interested in solutions and look up a lot of reliable websites/books (including the US DOE website) which I can trust. My best friend is a teacher and I do have good feelings for a lot of good/excellent teachers. I am seriously involved in the schools (tens of hours a week) where my grand children are students.
I have no interest in status quo and I was an experimenter during my working life as a scientist. Just because the public schools have been operating this way for a hundred years or more does not make it the only right way and nothing is better. That is the main reason I am questioning this website which has mutated into some thing terribly one sided and I cannot agree with.
All the other times I have been told things like “go away Michelle and take Joe Nathan with you” or “this is an educators classroom, go away”, or “are you a troll? are you working for Bill Gates? do not feed him any oxygen,” or “Why do you bother to comment on this blog?” like the one just above.
This blog excels on diatribe which is morally wrong and that is one man’s opinion.
I can’t speak for others, but as a retired teacher I have some understanding why some people may come across as dismissive. The educators on this blog are like soldiers that have been fighting a war for many years. They are weary from being bashed and bruised. They also feel corned as they have been intimidated and threatened by unfair rules and regulations. My guess is many of these participants are caring teachers, or they probably wouldn’t bother to read the blog. I understand the defensive posture and impatience that come from being attacked too often. I feel their stress vicariously. If I were in their shoes, I would be losing my mind.
Raj, I don’t see any more diatribe here than I see on other sites that are in favor of “reform” (whatever that means). And it comes from both sides.
The problem is that we have spent countless millions (is it billions?) of dollars to basically tell us what we have known for decades — that schools that serve primarily at-risk students without a majority of parents who have the time or wherewithal to support their child’s education are not doing well. Their students aren’t learning the way students at schools who don’t serve this population do.
The problem is that the “reformists” are far more interested in spending billions testing students to find out what we already know instead of using that money to have very small class size for the students who struggle. Or to make sure their schools have extended hours. Or have facilities that are clean and maintained instead of falling apart.
There seems to be plenty of money for testing and almost none when it comes to the things that most people would agree would work.
Do you know what also is most damaging to REAL reform? Charter advocates who pretend that the few charter schools getting good results on standardized tests are not using millions of dollars to subsidize the education of low-income students. Charter advocates who pretend that class size doesn’t matter when you have to educate EVERY student and not just the ones with committed parents who will do everything the charter school asks them to do when it comes to their child’s education. Charter advocates who proclaim they have found the secret sauce but then when you look closely you see that in their schools that do educate at-risk students, half of them are left behind.
Are there “bad” teachers? Of course. But not nearly as many as the “reformers” would have us believe and they are just as likely to be found in superb public schools and have students who test very well. A standardized test isn’t going to weed them out, but it will weed out the dedicated ones in poverty-stricken schools who are told that their 30 4th graders who struggle at math are supposed at be at this level or the teacher has failed. It will weed out the Algebra teacher who is told he needs to have his 35 at-risk 9th graders cover all the material in the Regents exam instead of slowing down the pace so he can actually make sure the students have a firm grasp of the earlier concepts before moving on.
The speed at which students are forced to learn is atrocious – especially in high school. Even the ones who are above average and can afford it are getting tutors and the ones who struggle but live in poverty — they are just falling through the cracks because no teacher is allowed to slow down for them.
There is something seriously wrong with education, but it isn’t the teaching. Lots of people are getting very rich teaching the students who have always done well, and lots of people are getting rich criticizing the schools that teach the other students.
Why are you attacking Diane in her living room? That’s uncalled for. Differences in opinion are one thing. Personal attacks are another.
This Raj is so clueless as to be hilarious. He believes that what he thinks, is THE reality… truly believes it.
“Hello, 911? I’m calling to report an assault, someone is attacking Dr. Ravitch in her living room!”
Being sarcastic, FLERP? I just think it’s royally uncool, particularly when Diane is out of town, to call her names.
Since I am a former public school teacher and university professor, it seems to me that Raj is truly searching for answers. On the other hand, if he were in one of my classes – particularly in a graduate class – I would have to know what he has read as far as education reform and the history of education is concerned. I do believe that he is trying to seriously engage in confronting the challenges of helping our children learn. One commentator asked if Raj is “clueless.” I would not be so vitriolic, but I would – again if Raj were one of my graduate students – want to know what he has read when it comes to education reform, curriculum and instruction, and the history of education. So Raj, what books have you read regarding these to areas. I am not being sarcastic. Rather, I am going to help you understand what is going on in education and how this all came about. Assessing what you know will allow many of us who are more knowledgeable about these areas to help you out. So what have you read that has helped inform your ideas about education? Seriously – I want to know. I truly believe you are on a quest to understand education issues. However, being a scientist does not automatically mean you understand education as an area of study in its profound sense. On the other hand, if you have not read a good deal about education and studied this area of human endeavor, maybe some folks, including Diane most of all, can help you out. Notice, however, I am definitely not calling you clueless!
Quote:
1), “[T]hese people think that they have all the answers[.]”
2), “There is lot of diatribe here.”
3), “This is social media gone berserk.”
4), “Just because the public schools have been operating this way for a hundred years or more does not make it the only right way and nothing is better. That is the main reason I am questioning this website which has mutated into some thing terribly one sided and I cannot agree with.”
[brackets mine]
The above reads like a humorless & grossly misleading caricature of this blog and those that comment on its threads—and a bit like self-caricature too, considering that the commenter has, er, often commented on it and must, perforce, be included among the offenders.
Please excuse this long statement of my own POV re this blog and its commenters since I have followed it since its inception—having previously followed for over two years the exchanges between Deborah Meier and Diane Ravitch on BRIDGING DIFFERENCES.
In real life, I have heard—firsthand, with plenty of heat—many discussions that went far far far beyond anything that has appeared on this blog. Want something more up to date? Just check the WWW—there are many websites that feature lots of digital invective.
This blog? Let me speak strictly for myself. I have found myself disagreeing more often with FLERP! than agreeing with him, but except on rare occasions when I feel that he has done himself harm by [as I see it] overreacting to some criticism, I read everything he writes [fact of life: online dialogue lends itself to self-destructive miscommunication—and I am no exception]. He has a certain way of approaching issues that, IMHO, sometimes helps clarify and illuminate.
Genuine, heartfelt and honest dialogue on something as broad and sensitive as a “better education for all” is going to be difficult in any case. *Especially when so many are seeing their careers, most deeply held concerns, and reputations being trashed—and then being told that they have to like it or lump it.*
But, and let me be perfectly clear, I don’t like the sneer, the jeer and the smear.
There is a simple solution for those that don’t find this blog to their liking: nobody is forcing you to read the postings and threads and nobody is forcing you to comment. Want to clutch pearls and fall on a fainting couch? Do it on your own time.
If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
Want respect? Give respect.
Is it easy? I have restrained myself more times than I want to even think about when it comes to responding to some of the comments on this blog—but thankfully the better angels of my nature were whispering in my ear.
That’s the way I see it.
😎
You’re awesome, KTA! Thank you for saying it so much more eloquently than I could.
What you said.
Wow.
Your eloquent commentary on this blog is spot on, and appreciated…. but let me say this…
I write at a news site where intelligent commentaries go on for days, but because it is a news site, with rules set by the publisher, therefore links are required to back opinions; the editors watch for people who are just looking for a place to exercise their voice by stating opinions with no basis in reality. Thus, trolls disappear fast, and few people waste time reading their static!
However, that does not mean that controversial opinions and argument are not welcome. I love to read the erudite opinions and long arguments that appear on controversial subjects.
As for this blog, I only began to get the feed and read this blog on a daily basis in July, although I had communicated with Diane for many years and followed her work for a decade in various places. I knew her voice and her intellect long before I came here to see what she has created..
I began to write here in August, and to link to her posts here, at OEN, to bring the exceptional voices that report on the state of education to a more general audience.
I peruse all commentary, but have not the time to read knee-jerk reactions, or mere ‘jerks,’ who seem to MISS the point because they are so consumed with their own voice in their head, and the noise that passes for beliefs that fill their brains.
Thus, I never paid attention to Raj, for more than the few seconds it took to evaluate what he was saying… and thus I was surprised at the response to his vituperative!
But, I get it… the respect and awe that I feel — in such a short time– for what Diane has done here is felt more strongly by those who have been here a long time and seen her valiant pursuit of truth.
But, let this character pass into obscurity. For those of us who spent time in a classroom with adolescents who enjoyed messing with learning, such disturbances need to be given the attention they deserve… and then ignored.
And I do read FLERP, who is interesting and intelligent, and on occasion makes a point that deserves attention. LOL
This is obviously not the blog for you, Raj. Go to your teacher friends and find out what they think. Ask for resources that you might investigate. Rather than attacking us for not doing what you want us to do, go find the resources that will. You have been given one of many that are out there. If you have followed the mainstream message, you know that teachers are and have been under attack as are public schools. You keep claiming that no one ever offers you “solutions,” as if there is a grand plan out there that can be slapped on all schools without exception. Diane has given you a general template of ideas that have been tried and do work. You choose to ignore her expertize. Go visit What Works. They have all sorts of citations that you can check. One of the greatest goals of teachers is to create independent learners. Go be one and stop hammering us with insults about how we are not meeting your needs.
Including you, isn”t it correct?
At least, we are not the puppets who are submissive to puppet master’s control. Back2basic
Yes they “fix” education the way we “fix’ dogs so they cannot reproduce.
AND
sadly, it is not only in education as bad as that is.
Maybe it’s the Dilbert Effect:
Tina is asked by Pointy Head Boss to take over a complex job that PHB tells her that he thinks she can learn to do in 45 minutes. Tina’s reply: “I like how you punctuate ignorance with certainty.”
(July 26, 2012)
R. Teacher:
TAGO!
Perhaps Scott Adams has been keeping up on his Mark Twain quotes:
“All you need is ignorance and confidence and the success is sure.”
😎
One thing is for certain is this: I am a sped teacher in a priority school where they have loaded us up with redundant paper crap, tests, etc. and I am feeling really stupid and old for just wanting to teach these kids. I don’t know how much longer I can cope with it all.
Hang in there, Mary. Just continue to do the best you can under the circumstances. Try not to take the issues outside your control to heart.
Love this post Diane and thanks for sharing DKE info. It definitely describes our misguided reformers!!!!