This comment was posted on the blog. Please forward to Governor Andrew Cuomo. “governorcuomo@exec.ny.gov”
Though I have loved teaching and have always felt it was what I was destined to do, I no longer wake up motivated, excited, and eager to start a
new day. I cannot begin to tell you how the “Race to the Top”
and “No Child Left Behind” has undermined our profession
and has taken away our professional autonomy. I am sick and tired of
educational elitists like Arne Duncan, Michelle Rhee, John King, and
our own elected officials, pointing their fingers at the teachers for
what is wrong in education. We are not what is wrong. Yes, there are
exceptions in any profession, even in politics, but most of us are
hard-working, dedicated, intelligent professionals.
Here I am, yet again, unable to sleep because I know I have today’s
responsibilities on my mind. I’m at the tail end of my career, but I
still care enough to be up at 2 am. to prepare for my teaching day.
One only needs to look at Finland to find out how to better improve
education. They have it right. High stakes testing and targeting
teachers is not what they do. They value and respect their teachers.
How about taking a look at how all of the externals affect students’
performance, like the poverty level and students’ behaviors? How
about improving discipline in school? How about making the students
accountable for their learning? Students are more than aware
that if they don’t do well, the teacher will be held accountable for
their lack of progress. The teacher will have to get more
training, not them. How about encouraging more parental involvement
outside of school? I am the teacher from 8-3. The parents are the
teachers the rest of the time. I cannot do it all. My parents spent a
great deal of time with me after school hours helping me learn what I
might have not learned well enough in school and felt it was their
responsibility to do so. I am lucky enough to work in a district
where there is a high level of parental involvement, but I have heard
story after story from colleagues in other districts who do not have
that level support and are treated very disrespectfully.
I just finished my formal observation lesson plan whose format was the
equivalent of a college term paper, as I tried to make sure I linked,
and cross-referenced, the NYS Core Curriculum Standards and the
Danielson rubrics to each part of it. It took me seven hours to
write one lesson plan. Is this really necessary? I have letter after
letter from parents appreciating my teaching abilities. Yet I have
to prove day after day to others that I am good at what I do.
I have a partial solution to the observation expectations. Do you want
to see if I’m doing a good job? Just put a camera in my classroom,
and watch me all day long. Watch me as I differentiate instruction
for the multiple levels of academic needs in my inclusion classroom.
Watch me as I dance, sing, smile, and try to inject humor into my
lessons so the children are not leaving school as defeated and
demoralized as we teachers are. Watch me as I hug the children who
are on the verge of tears because they are overwhelmed, tired, and
frustrated because what we are teaching is not developmentally
appropriate for most of our seven and eight year olds. Watch me as I
try to hold it together, mentally and physically, when I am
functioning on interrupted sleep, often waking up at two and three
am. thinking about how my day can unfold seamlessly, and perfectly,
in case I have an unannounced, evaluated walk-through.
In what other profession does one have to be perfectly “ON” all
day long? We are not automatons. We are human beings. But then, I
remind myself that these evaluations make no difference, really.
After all, our own governor has told us that we have far too many
effective and highly effective teachers, and we just cannot have that
happen again this year. Can you imagine that? Yes. Governor Cuomo
has made it abundantly clear to us that this CANNOT and WILL NOT
happen this year. So, I remind myself not to worry. After all, I’m
just one of the bunch. I’m ORDINARY or, perhaps worse, developing or even inept. Imagine if I started my school year telling my students that? “Boys and girls, we had too many top students last year.” “That doesn’t make sense.”
“There shouldn’t be so many high scoring students.” “So, just
know that there cannot be as many this year.” “Do you
understand, boys and girls?” What’s the message here? Where’s the
motivation to excel?
I have two years left to go. I don’t know if I’ll make it intact. It’s
a shame that I have to leave my profession feeling this frustrated
and disappointed. Yet, I try to go in everyday with a smile. We do
because we know these 6, 7, and 8 year old youngsters deserve to have
us at our best. Speaking of deserving, I’d have to say I deserve the
teacher’s version of the Academy Award for best classroom actress. We
teachers are all actors and actresses everyday when we go in feeling
tired, defeated, and miserable while making every effort to infuse
our classrooms with the joy of learning.
Then there is the standardized testing component. Students are being
tested on material that has not been taught because what is being tested is not in our curriculum. And, if they are unable to answer those questions, we teachers may be deemed “developing” or even worse, “ineffective”. Understanding that thousands, and perhaps even millions of dollars, has been spent on purchasing these tests and the companion on-line test prep
programs, I doubt if school districts, nor the state, will be willing
to listen to the public and end this lunacy. Imagine the money that
has been wasted when it would’ve been better spent positively and
proactively on inspirational, motivational professional
development workshops, teaching materials and supplies, improving the
physical workspace, and building self-esteem. By the way, self-esteem comes from being successful. It certainly does not evolve in a punitive atmosphere in which highly experienced, hard-working teachers’ actions, decisions, lessons, and motivations are continuously questioned and dissected. Where is the trust? Do I feel valued, appreciated and protected? No, I do not.
Our cultural, governmental, economic, academic, and educational
institutions each need a miraculous rebirth and reincarnation. Who is
courageous enough to take a stand and lead us to a morally and ethically
higher ground? Oh, and before our politicians started pointing their fingers at us, they might have better served themselves by fixing their own profession. Imagine if they held themselves to the same level of rigor and performance outcomes?
A Very Frustrated, Highly Experienced NYS Teacher
Diane Ravitch's blog 
“My parents spent a great deal of time with me after school hours helping me learn what I
might have not learned well enough in school and felt it was their responsibility to do so.”
Um, no, not really. As a parent, I’m not a teacher. I’ve had no training as a teacher. I haven’t gone to school to learn all about pedagogy, different learning styles, etc. I have no idea how to help a child understand something if she hasn’t understood it in school. In fact, I gave teaching a try as an assistant for three years and that’s why I’m not still in the field – since I tend to understand things quickly myself, I’m not good at coming up with other ways to explain/demonstrate if the first explanation doesn’t click. And considering I have a master’s in psychology, which included quite a bit of child development, I have an advantage over most parents. But I’m still not a teacher. And that’s to say nothing of the parents who work two or three jobs just to put food on the table and have no time to teach their kids at home. Or parents who don’t speak English or who have limited schooling themselves. Or parents who are incarcerated, drug addicted or otherwise unavailable/incapacitated – what are their kids supposed to do?
Um, no, Dienne.
You are your child’s teacher whether you think so or not. You are your child’s first teacher. Children don’t just learn to read and write and do math. They learn how to live with others and be how to deal with life. They learn how a household runs. They learn the beliefs and values of their society, community and family. Who teaches all that? I sure hope that you are, psychology degree or not. Or if your child fails to learn those things, will you just blame the teachers? Go ahead, everyone else does.
Teaching kids how to live and deal with life is completely different than what this teacher is talking about. Read what she wrote. She’s saying it’s a parent’s job to teach their child what the child didn’t understand in school. If an educated, certified teacher can’t get a child to understand something, how is a non-teacher-educated, non-certified parent supposed to teach it? To be sure, some parents can, and their kids have a great advantage for it. But it’s not a parent’s responsibility. There’s only so much most parents can do.
“She’s saying it’s a parent’s job to teach their child what the child didn’t understand in school.”
No Dienne, she did not say that. She said her parents felt it was their responsibility to “learn what I might have not learned well enough in school.”
What she did say was, “How about encouraging more parental involvement outside of school? I am the teacher from 8-3. The parents are the teachers the rest of the time. I cannot do it all.”
Are you arguing against more parental involvement outside of school?
“I’ve had no training as a teacher. I haven’t gone to school to learn all about pedagogy, different learning styles, etc.”
I believe you have just described Teach for America pretend teachers.
Think of the students who have TFA pretend teachers during the school day and then no parents helping them with school/homework in the evenings. They are totally out of luck.
RT, interesting connection
Dienne, there is only so much a teacher in a classroom can do. Don’t you ever help you child with homework? Who understands your child’s ability better, you or a person who sees your child in a large group for nine months?
Yes I read what she wrote, and what you wrote. How special that you understand things quickly and have a masters in psychology. Too bad you have no empathy for a beleaguered teacher. I wouldn’t want to come to you for counseling.
Kris, I think Dienne just humbly stated that even as a psychologist she realizes that she doesn’t have the skills to teach. She supports teachers . I would gladly seek her out if I need the help of an understanding psychologist.
Thanks, Peg.
Aren’t most teachers assigning homework that is practice at a suitable level/not frustration-level? Teachers want to see what the youngster not the parent can do.
Dienne, This teacher used the word “helping”. Parents are their children’s first teacher and their children’s success is almost totally in the parents’ hands. Parents provide nurturing and support. They may not understand the new math but they can sit down with their children and offer reassurance and support. They can project positive energy and encourage their children and not seethe with hostility over having to spend time working with their children on “school work” which in reality is life work. Bad attitudes breed bad attitudes. This can be something parents “teach” their children.
Due respect, Ms. Cartwheel – I have long valued your voice on this blog and I’m not looking for a confrontation. But the full text of what she said was “helping me learn what I might have not learned well enough in school”. I’m very glad her parents were able to do that for her, but most parents are really not capable of helping their child learn what they’re not learning in school. If a child is having trouble understanding something when a fully educated, trained teacher who knows pedagogy and multiple ways to frame/explain/demonstrate a concept teaches it, I really don’t think most parents (myself most emphatically included) are going to be able to help the situation. Furthermore, very often, the dynamic between the parent and the child makes the situation more confrontational and more difficult than if simply left to the teacher (or maybe hiring a tutor).
Also, the tone of that section of her post was rather accusatory. It’s not her fault that her kids don’t get it, it’s the parents’ fault. I understand that teachers feel beleaguered and I fully understand that. As I said below, what’s happening to teachers in this country is shameful and wrong. I agree completely that she should not be blamed for her students’ “failings” (further, I don’t even believe they are “failings”, just “differences”, but that’s getting rather off the subject). But it doesn’t help the situation to turn around and pass the blame on to parents. Parents are under a lot of stress on average these days, just like teachers. They have their own limitations and needs. They’re just doing the best they can, but they’re victims of the same system that is destroying not only education, but the entire middle class. Parents and teachers need to unite with each other, not point accusatory fingers.
Diene, you are your child’s first and most important teacher and how lucky your child is to have this advantage. Sitting next to your child while they are doing homework and offering support is your job. Reading regularly with your child is your job. Grasping teachable moments at the store, the beach, or any other place you might be is your job. Playing games with your child is your job. Having conversations with your child and asking thought provoking questions is your job. This is exactly what this teacher is talking about. And if there is something that you or your child doesn’t understand, you advocate for them. That’s what a teacher would do.
And those kids who don’t have that parent as a teacher are at a disadvantage. (A parent who works several jobs or speaks a foreign language can still do many of the things mentioned above.) They are who teachers fight passionately for everyday. They are why we are up late and at school on the weekends. They are why we spend our own money buying supplies and books. But how nice would it be if they had their first and most important teacher at their side.
Dienne, you are lucky if you don’t (or didnt) have to be the teacher-backup for your kids. I understand the concept: let the teachers do their thing; my kids must learn to do their part on their own; teacher will correct/tweak, it’s their job. But that’s a paradigm that only works in the ideal.
I was able to follow that paradigm for my stubbornly-independent middle child. He began to falter in grades 7-9, but fortunately our distr had an alternative ‘school-within-a-school’ in whch he blossomed 11th-12th. He made it on his own thanks to teachers/ [wealthy] district.
But two of my three had IEP’s for vaguely-defined LD that equates to ‘notable gap between IQ & performance levels’ — translated in the ’90’s as ADD. The worst years were K-9, after which the district was convinced that small, self-contained [expensive] classes were in order. [My inner cynic suspects this is because the district was not equipped to provide same until soph yr] Only then could I relax and let the teachers do their thing.
From K thru 9, the only breaks afforded by IEP were resource room [essentially a teacher-asst’d study hall– but not available until m.s.], maybe a SpEd co-teacher in a big class, and untimed tests. No breaks were given on h.w. load.
My kids’ era was notable for heavy primary-sch homework. The district eventually eased off due to parental protest, but not until mine were in m.s., where– despite ‘team teaching’, h.w. load was rarely coordinated; 3 hrs was std [in h.s. 4hrs was std].
It pains me to remember how I would get my attention-deficient youngsters to persevere w/ primary sch h.w. We’d start before dinner & conclude by bedtime. I would put little snacks out, edible in exchange for completing an assnt. Eventually I became more assertive w/teachers, insisting on 30mins per assnt, signed off w/my note. Before that, my eldest was actually reqd– in 2nd gr– to come in on successive Sat’s to laboriously catch up.
Reading assnts had to be done by trading off pages– I read to them for 1 page, they read to me for the next etc. (This must have continued into hs, as I remember doing this w/Shakespeare & Pearl Buck’s The Good Earth) Every quiz & test was practiced at home beforehand.
The hw load was extreme considering my kids’ extra-curricular activities- art & music classes, bands– you’ll maybe understand that these activities were necessary to maintain their sanity & interest in living.
What of math (my weakness)? My eldest was gifted in concepts: he could explain quadratic equations to me succinctly– but could not work one through to conclusion on ppr. He was blessed w/an 8th-gr teacher who swore to see him thro a good exam mark (& did, on her own time). My youngest came along in HSPA days (a NJ exam reqd to grad hs)– & was blessed that our district required back-to-back math classes in jr yr if your practice HSPA looked bad. He eked through.
I do not mean to belittle SpEd in its prime days: my eldest was also cursed w/ill health, particularly in h.s. Had it not been for the stellar SpEd tem, complemented w/top-notch guidance dept– & a district budget that included in-home tutoring– he could never have caught up w/his peer class, completed hs, gone on to college. I shudder to imagine the outcomes for kids such as mine under the present-day near-shuttering of SpEd & guidance depts due to budget cutbacks.
I hope you will see from my lengthy post that in all but ideal conditions, a parent must be prepared to co-teach their children through public schools, regardless of their background/ training.
“As a parent, I’m not a teacher.” No you’re not, but as a teacher I’m not a parent. However, I’ve been expected to provide school supplies to children who cannot purchase their own, provide emotional support to children whose parents are divorcing, or experienced the loss of a close relative, or lives in an abusive environment. I’ve been asked to donate money, food, clothing, etc. when a child’s life is devastated by the loss of their home to fire. I’ve been asked to come in to school early and stay late to give extra help to those who are not passing and/or have gotten way behind.
I’ve been expected to support, counsel and get help for students with enormously serious issues like suicidal thoughts, addictive behavior, in abusive dating relationships, and pregnancy.
Schools have stepped in to feed, cloth, provide transportation, provide school supplies, provide counseling, provide tutoring, provide special education, provide alternative education, provide everything under the sun because the parents of this country are really, really dropping the ball. Our schools go way, way beyond just teaching and providing education.
My parents played a tremendous part in my education. Neither of my parents are “teachers,” but because of my learning disability, spent countless hours with me to aide me in my homework needs at home during my elementary years. Thanks to my parent’s making my educational needs a priority, I was able to be a top student, and go onto college. I feel the efforts my parents made to help me with my education when I was young made all the difference. If they hadn’t supported me and had a “hands off” philosophy, let the “teacher” do all the “teaching,” I probably would have struggled significantly in school during my early years. I also probably would not experience the success I now currently have, career wise and education wise. I am not bashing anyone’s opinion, just “food for thought” in regard to how a parent’s involvement in a child’s educational journey can have lasting results.
Isn’t there some way we can bring these concerns to the direct attention of Obama? Getting Duncan’s attention is pointless; he is entrenched in his own philosophy and lack of knowledge. BTW, are Obama’s daughters tested? Maybe we could ask them to take a practice test.
Reblogged this on David R. Taylor-Thoughts on Texas Education.
Excellent comments. More should follow her lead and then perhaps change will occur.
i agree, great comments. and how should we follow her lead? in what respect?
As a 25 year veteran, NYS teacher, I could have spoken these words myself. This person took the words right out of my mouth. Let me add, it doesn’t help the teacher’s psyche when they read their local newspaper, such as the rag Newsday, and all of the comments refer to teachers as pigs at the trough, lazy, entitled, etc. It beats you down, yet we walk into the classroom with a smile on our faces. And yes Dienne, parents need to sit down with their kids to go over their school work, and if they’re in prison, etc., like you mentioned or working three jobs and can’t be with their kids, then they have no business having kids. The teachers aren’t miracle workers.
“…have no business having kids.”
Wow. Poor people have no business having kids. Just, wow.
Sorry Dienne, but I’m a hard-core conservative–NO, you should not be having kids if you can’t afford them. PERIOD.
Bravo. This is a nice corollary to the rule that people should not be alive if they can’t afford to live.
Thanks, FLERP!
Poor people having or not having the kids is not the issue; so many people should not be poor or slipping into poverty in the first place if there were a more even distribution of wealth. . . .Our system is devastating the lives of millions of people, therefore.
Of course, it will not hurt to have no more than one or two kids if you are low income, middle class, or rich . . . .
Now go forth and multiply . . . .
Poor people should always have the right to have children. However, at what point do we acknowledge the obvious? Having a bevy of kids knowing damn well you will be unable to financially support them and relying on others to do so becomes counterproductive for society on all fronts. This is no different than the parents who drop their children off at school and wash their hands completely free of their responsibilities and obligations which are absolutely pivotal in the educational development of a child. You cannot expect a stranger to play a greater role in educating your son or daughter than the actual person who brought that child into this world regardless if that individual is getting paid to do the job or not. Parents are absolutely accountable for educating their children each and every day even if they are not educators by profession.
I should clarify a bit. No, teachers aren’t miracle workers. I fully sympathize with teachers and I’ll be the first to say that the abuse they’ve taken in recent years is horrific and wrong. Yes, teachers deal with student problems that walked in the door long before the teacher got to that student and it is wrong to hold teachers accountable for that.
But it’s also wrong – not to mention unproductive – to turn that abuse on parents. It’s divide and conquer, and it’s exactly what the powers that be want us to do. The truth is that most parents are under the same neoliberal assault as teachers – the attack on poor people and the hollowing out of the middle class is affecting us all and we’re all stressed out and doing the best we can.
I fully support teachers’ efforts during the school day and they should be lauded for everything they do. But in turn, please respect what I do at home. School time is for school, home time is for family and personal pursuits, and parents are not (usually) certified teachers.
And telling people whether or not they have any “business” having kids is just plain wrong.
“But in turn, please respect what I do at home. School time is for school, home time is for family and personal pursuits, and parents are not (usually) certified teachers.”
Ask teachers if their home time is all for family and personal pursuits. There is no way that teachers can do what needs to be done in the course of a school day. What other profession has to work at their job while at home in the evening with their families?
“Ask teachers if their home time is all for family and personal pursuits. There is no way that teachers can do what needs to be done in the course of a school day. What other profession has to work at their job while at home in the evening with their families?”
Ha!
You may have disagreed with her on her points about parent responsibility, but all the other points she made is right on the mark. We should definitely be talking about revamping the entire system, curriculum, and allow teachers to have input and make decisions, with Finland being an excellent example. Teachers are already considered to be and treated as the enemy, and bringing parents under that umbrella will not help. However, just as you are not a teacher, I am not a parent, yet teachers are expected to be. I am expected to work as many hours as it takes. Well, I already work 50-60 hours a week, spend an average of $1,000 of my own money every year on school materials, and do the job of what would normally take three people to do: Teacher, teacher assistant/aide, and parent and maybe a fourth, therapist…wait, five…nurse. I don’t get paid for the extra hours I put in or get reimbursed for those materials I have to buy. The job actually requires 70-80 hours a week, but I refuse to do this. Is my refusal to work like a dog, and god forbid my asking to be paid for those hours, make me just another lazy, entitled, incompetent, uncaring, selfish teacher who shouldn’t be complaining because I have my summers “off”? (Summers off is a teacher joke, they will get it.) I’m exhausted and I can’t do it anymore. I won’t do it anymore and I wish I could say it was because I am retiring. It seems as if you just focused on the “parent” comment and your eyes glazed over and you ignored the more important points the woman had to say. Only when there’s a crisis, which there will be, (failing students and a severe shortage of teachers) will people finally understand that we’re going about this all wrong and kicking teachers and yes, parents, while they’re already down won’t help. Finland is where we need to start and more social programs need to be added because the burden cannot be held solely on the teacher. I took a personal day today. Am I doing something fun? Or am I sitting at home (taking a break right now) working on school work grading papers and otherwise trying to catch up before I have to be at class tonight for 3 hours? Gee, it’s anyone’s guess.
“it’s not a parent’s responsibility.”
That is the statement that alarms me. In many years of teaching, I have had very few parents that actually claimed that the education of their child was not their responsibility. In all of those cases, the child was seriously affected by the attitude of the parents, and ended up declining both academically and behaviorally.
As a parent, I am responsible for my child’s education and health, not to mention many other things. I rely on the help of professionals, but the buck stops with me.
BTW, where on earth do you get “neoliberal assault” from? Who do you think is making money off the mess that education is in? It sure isn’t the liberals.
Kris, Those named in this blog are DEMOCRATS.
Robert, Thank you for understanding the sacrifices of my time my family endures. It was NOT always this difficult to be a teacher. In the trenches for almost 25 years. I love what I do. I truly LOVE my students. I hate the BS that goes with it.
Robert – correct me if I’m wrong but you get paid to teach right? That’s the difference – my kids don’t get paid to go to school.
Kris – it is my responsibility to oversee my kids’ education not provide it. That’s why I don’t homeschool. BTW you should look up an explanation of neoliberalism.
Both – no I don’t help with homework. They don’t have any. They go to a progressive school that recognizes that there is no proven benefit of homework in the elementary years.
Robert, you asked “what other profession has to work at their job while at home in the evening with their families?”
While I’ve only been teaching for 11 years, I did spend twenty years working as a professional geologist, in the oil and gas industry, the mining (aggregate) industry, and many years in the environmental cleanup field
I brought work home many nights, not all, but the majority of them, especially in the later years as my responsibilities expanded to include technical and managerial duties. Most nights had work I brought home.
Certainly not all professions have that kind of work load, but I don’t think mine was the exception. I worked with engineers, chemists, lawyers routinely, and I know most of them has similar workloads.
When teachers observe that they have to do so much work at home, many others in the professions say “so what?”. When that observation comes across as a complaint, you’ve lost potential allies to the teaching profession.
I am paid a salary to get a job done. I work until that job is done. It’s no different now than it was when I was consulting. To suggest we as teachers have a special set of circumstances that others don’t…well it comes across badly.
Dienne,
Going to school is your children’s job. The pay is knowledge, social skills, and potential income earning skills. There are no guarantees in life but a failure to prepare for the future usually portends a not too great result.
Ms. Cartwheel – agree fully. But there are other ways to prepare for life that are just as important as what is learned in school (more important than school work that just consists of redundant worksheets and other busywork typically assigned as homework). Doing chores, eating and spending time with the family, spending time with friends, playing, exploring, pursuing their own interests, and just chilling out (not to mention getting adequate sleep) are all equally important and, after six or seven hours in school, they need the time to do those other things.
Also, it has to be said that the amount of school work expected to be done at home has skyrocketed. I wouldn’t mind so much if it were the 10 minutes per grade per night that’s recommended (as a ceiling, not a floor), but unfortunately, that tends to be the minimum. When my older daughter was in pre-k, she was getting half an hour a night. My friends whose kids are in non-progressive schools (public, charter and Catholic) talk about how their kids spend hours per night on homework. And the quality of the work matters too. Writing a story (for younger kids) or an essay (for older ones) or doing independent research is one thing, but the mind-numbing, repetitive, “Common Core aligned!” worksheets that kids are expected to do these days are just exercises in meaningless drudgery.
Dienne, I don’t need a definition of neoliberal. I want to know why you think they are assaulting you as a parent.
The assault that is going on right now is from corporations, like Pearson, that are sucking away tax dollars that should go to classrooms, while imposing unreasonable expectations on students via their tests. The assault is also from lawmakers who bow to these corporations and their lobbyists. Follow the money and don’t blame some vague notion of political philosophy.
Kris, you are attacking someone who is on your side. Dienne is defending teachers, but pointing out that pushing the blame back onto parents isn’t helpful. The real reform we should be pursuing is how to re-think education so that all students can learn, even if they don’t have parents at home who are supporting them.
To NYC parent. How is asking a legitimate question an attack? First the neoliberals are attacking. Now I am attacking. If your friend makes a statement about a group attacking her as a parent, she should be able to explain that. If it is true, I would very much like to know about it.
Dienne,
I fully understand the desire to limit or eliminate homework for students, especially young ones. The “rigorous” (I hate that word) curriculum is what students will be tested on and teachers will possibly lose their jobs over. It is critical to educators who wish to continue employment for all parties to share the responsibility for educating children.
Without going into detail I will tell you that my school’s population is 98% free and reduced lunch. We have many wonderful parents, grandparents, foster parents, and family caregivers. We have at least if not more of the exact opposite and it is chilling to think of what these little people go home to every day. That being said, we as educators must continue to work with parents every step of the way to see how we can improve what may be a truly dismal future for our children.
Until things change nationally, every public school teacher is at the mercy of a test score and an administrator. I am in a no tenure state so that even at my advanced age, I can be dismissed without due process. What will happen when all of the good ones are gone? Who will teach our children? I have a theory and I think it will be computers.
This time some year it will be Computer Appreciation Week.
“The assault that is going on right now is from corporations, like Pearson, that are sucking away tax dollars….
Yes, that’s neolieralism. Apparently you do need an explanation.
“The “rigorous” (I hate that word) curriculum is what students will be tested on and teachers will possibly lose their jobs over. It is critical to educators who wish to continue employment for all parties to share the responsibility for educating children.”
Yes, I agree that that’s horribly problematic, to put it mildly. But the solution is not to beat the “knowledge” (test prep) into the kids. The solution is for parents to opt their kids out of the tests to defeat the data machine altogether.
Dienne, “Yes, that’s neolieralism.”
Apparently you need a dictionary. I have not heard corporations called neoliberals or neolierals. I believe the only political philosophy they follow is the one with dollar signs.
Sigh. Here are the main tenets of neoliberalism – recognize anything?
THE RULE OF THE MARKET. Liberating “free” enterprise or private enterprise from any bonds imposed by the government (the state) no matter how much social damage this causes. Greater openness to international trade and investment, as in NAFTA. Reduce wages by de-unionizing workers and eliminating workers’ rights that had been won over many years of struggle. No more price controls. All in all, total freedom of movement for capital, goods and services. To convince us this is good for us, they say “an unregulated market is the best way to increase economic growth, which will ultimately benefit everyone.” It’s like Reagan’s “supply-side” and “trickle-down” economics — but somehow the wealth didn’t trickle down very much.
CUTTING PUBLIC EXPENDITURE FOR SOCIAL SERVICES like education and health care. REDUCING THE SAFETY-NET FOR THE POOR, and even maintenance of roads, bridges, water supply — again in the name of reducing government’s role. Of course, they don’t oppose government subsidies and tax benefits for business.
DEREGULATION. Reduce government regulation of everything that could diminsh profits, including protecting the environmentand safety on the job.
PRIVATIZATION. Sell state-owned enterprises, goods and services to private investors. This includes banks, key industries, railroads, toll highways, electricity, schools, hospitals and even fresh water. Although usually done in the name of greater efficiency, which is often needed, privatization has mainly had the effect of concentrating wealth even more in a few hands and making the public pay even more for its needs.
ELIMINATING THE CONCEPT OF “THE PUBLIC GOOD” or “COMMUNITY” and replacing it with “individual responsibility.” Pressuring the poorest people in a society to find solutions to their lack of health care, education and social security all by themselves — then blaming them, if they fail, as “lazy.”
from: http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=376
Sorry NY Teacher Fed Up W/Cuomo but you’re wrong about ‘no business having kids.’ Even poor people w/too many jobs to help kids w/h.w. deserve a family. Families are what get us through in life, & life extends well beyond the phase of helping kids w/h.w.
Thank you.
With the new much harder common core objectives and the 2 grade levels ahead PARCC test, along with much less instructional time to teach, it will not be hard to be deemed ineffective as an educator. I am so thankful to be near the end of my teaching career. It has become the most discouraging, depressing career. I would never in a million years allow my two children to go into teaching, and I openly discourage it to my students I teach. I would feel terrible to see any young person go through the misery I am experiencing. I work so hard at my job, yet I am made to feel that I am worthless.
It’s no wonder teachers are feeling frustrated and defensive. Teachers have been the scapegoat for all of society’s ills. They are being backed into a corner from the results of questionable testing and false metrics. Their voices have been silenced while everyone from the media, the government and the for profit camp takes cheap shots at them. Teachers are weary from having to teach in straight jackets while politicians dream up new ways to fire them. They are tired of being the national “whipping boy.”
Sad Teacher– I totally understand your position as one whose retirement is near– no doubt today’s absurd ed climate will last a few more years before it is decisively put down. But it is a phase: when economic times are tough for an extended period, scapegoats are found; this time around it’s teachers. Teaching will always be with us. Perhaps you might consider suggesting to children/ students that teaching will be a difficult career for the next few years, but get the appropriate courses if they’re interested, to keep options open for teaching in future years.
well, i feel you. I love teaching, but my situation is very special as an English teacher in Asia. I have creative license because of lack of supervision (yet lack is as bad as too much). Relative to the states, it is a good teaching situation. Your feelings are so unfortunate, and unfortunately they fit right into what the TPTB want, less and less human teachers, which will make it easier to implement robotic teachers and even easier to program the minds of the youth. (high stakes testing is programming, inhumane programming) Less creative, less thinking, less empowered, less questioning and more obedient youth are part of this agenda: equals easier control.
I would suggest reading Louise Hay’s work. We all need to understand that as teachers we are in part responsible for the way things are unfolding in education. We get what we accept. If we want something different we need to deserve and accept something different, and then go do something about it. We have that power.
I’m very tired of being blamed for society’s woes. I can only control what goes on in my classroom during the time my students are present. During that time I make it no secret that I care very much for them. We often purchase clothes for them, supplies…even occasionally wash their clothes. I cannot MAKE them do their homework, study or any of the very important things that occur on the family level at home.
The ONLY time ANY teachers are heard about in the media is if they do something criminal, or DIE trying to save their students. Perhaps when our country treats teachers as the professionals they are things will improve. Funny how the countries we are often compared to DO treat their teachers with the same deference as the do doctors and lawyers. Doctors and lawyers DO NOT have to keep PROVING they are doing their jobs. Teachers take boards, just like other professions…could not practice our ART with them. If I could have the time to do things for the children that I currently spend proving my worth…perhaps things WOULD be a little better.
Check the current DECREASE in teacher preparation enrollment across the country. What will happen when those of us who truly have a calling leave and those that are in the classroom are far and few between? Who will be blamed then?
Leave the teaching to the professionals. Give the power back to the municipalities. Perhaps our illustrious politicians should prove their worth to us. Ha.
Time to change your pen name to Mad Teacher. And I mean this with all due respect! Take care of yourself every day in every little way possible. I feel your pain. This is my 37th year as a teacher. Let your anger rise within you. You have every reason to be mad. I keep telling my colleagues that I can only get kicked in the face so many times before I take action. Once I got over the bewilderment and shock of the policies put into place in my state in 2012 , Louisiana, I made it my business to act whenever I can. I send positive energy to you along with high praise and respect for your service to humanity. ( But get mad!)
There can never be equity in education while there remains disparity in children’s home lives.
Amen, amen, amen. This teacher hits the nail on its head. The job I loved for years no longer exists. The love is gone replaced by despair. I won’t go into the reasons but much of it relates to lack of the accountability of students and dare I say it…parents.
In this converstion, i can see both sides. Many parents are busyan don’t spend the time with their kids they should. I cn’t recount the times parents told me that their kids at school is my problem so stop calling them. If kids are lucky enough to have structured, no nonsense school environment, the school can take up the slack from parents. If not, then problems occur. Teacher are stressed and unapppreciated.Parents and teachers are the stakeholders most concerned about students. Can’t we get along??
We all have to work with the hand we were dealt. As a teacher, I expect that students should come to school ready to learn. This means the child is rested and fed. The child should be able to follow basic classroom rules. Children should be able to sit long enough to listen to simple instructions (at least 15 minutes for first graders). They should know that swearing, hitting, kicking and biting are socially unacceptable and have the ability to comply with this expectation. They should be able to appropriately use a public restroom. They should have a modicum of impulse control. Most parents do a great job of teaching these expectations before children enter school. But there are children that are baffling to both parents and teachers. The truth is there are no easy solutions. Children can be difficult no matter how much adult support they receive. We are all trying to do our best. I think the real problem is the forcing of all us to conform to an arbitrary time line for development. This kind of pressure cooker that we all function is causes even the most complacent people to become overwhelmed and unreasonable. I think we need to be more civil and patient with one another.
Good points all – if teachers are accountable, then accountability among all members of the student/child centered base should be equally assigned..
The things I hear and see daily from even very young students is beyond my ken. Never, ever would I have imagined the world the way it is. It is so sad and disheartening and yet anger evoking. Personal responsibility is a thing of the past except perhaps for public school teachers.
“The things I hear and see daily from even very young students is beyond my ken… Personal responsibility is a thing of the past except perhaps for public school teachers.”
I am sad to hear that the kids/ families you see in your work environment cause you to draw such conclusions. Rest assured this is not so everywhere! The kids I see weekly in a working-class daycare (E Orange NJ) are taught by their parents to be respectful & attentive– & the teachers who work with them (often from 7am until 6pm) help even those most challenged by mental & physical health issues to learn how to be ‘civil’ & work/play successfully with their groups.
“if teachers are accountable, then accountability among all members of the student/child centered base should be equally assigned.”
No, the solution isn’t to spread around more of a toxic system. The solution is to get rid of the toxic system. No one should be “accountable” (at least, not in the punitive way the rephormers mean it) for student learning.
This reminds me of when private sector workers moan that they don’t get “tenure” so teachers shouldn’t either. Again, the solution isn’t to punish everyone, the solution is to fight for fair treatment for everyone.
” I think the real problem is the forcing of all us to conform to an arbitrary time line for development.” Well said. Encapsulates every difficulty of my own kids in getting through the system. I am so very lucky to work w/2.5-6y.o.’s in daycare/K settings, where ‘move-up’ to the next level happens only when kids are ready. The same premise worked very well in my one-room rural primary school in the ’50’s– the tail-end of a philosophy long employed in rural schools– making it possible, for example, for my 1924-born farmer’s-son dad to be ‘career-ready’ after 8th grade (went on to steel factory, then Navy, then mechanic/ home-builder/ developer).
It’s a concept well worth re-visiting. What keeps it from happening today? (1)the insistence on h.s. diploma for entry to any job, when many jobs can be accomplished w/a 7th or 8th grade education; (2)the insistence on college diploma for entry to jobs which can easily be accomplished w/a h.s. diploma…
I tried forwarding it to the Governor but it came back as undeliverable.
“”UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL””
Dienne, please do not pick on words, but read between the line.
Cultural binding with all designated/labelled responsibility without understanding the true meaning as whom we are, is the CULPRIT tool from PUPPET MASTERS of all fields in society to use in order to control people with NAIVETÉ and TRUST.
Being a true human being, we need to do whatever within our capacity to help one another, or to alleviate the pain of the unfortunate in words and in actions. We call this a VOLUNTEERISM, not responsibility due to the paid job.
No, I do not have any degree in psychology. However, I learned many psychological lessons from my parents who recited to their young children the fables with moral lesson to prepare us how to deal with traps from greed, ego, and lust for fame and emotional attention.
Yes, I had degree in Sociology, and I would agree with “”NY Teacher Fed Up W/ Cuomo”” regarding that “”parents who can’t be with their kids, then they have no business having kids”‘
Simply, kids are not toys to play whenever people please (= marriage) and trash them whenever people do not care (=divorce) for them after honeymoon is over.
This is to bring back the REAL QUESTION of
1) WHAT IS THE FOUNDATION of EDUCATION, and COMMUNITY?
2) WHO gains THE CONTROL in exercising RIGHTEOUSNESS? Is it the snobbish class? Is it that this class is born with privilege and advantages to bully the rest of population as per NOEL WILSON? {see http://epaa.asu.edu/ojs/article/view/577/700
Brief outline of Wilson’s “Educational Standards and the Problem of Error”
“So what does a test measure in our world? [like title, career, salary…it is my emphasis]
It measures what the person with the power [ideology] to pay for the test says it measures.
And the person [puppet masters] who sets the test will name the test what the person who pays for the test wants the test to be named.”}
3) WHO is profiting from ADVOCACY for RIGHTFULNESS? Is it the business corporate? (This is the utmost tricky tactic) For example: look at the current Charters with $tudent$ Fir$t or choice groups which are created by donation from business corporate who loot public fund 1000% in return (give out million, get back billions).
In short, we CANNOT just live with love and comfort BUT with minimum amount of time to care for our own survival (= working), then family members (=caring), then community and society (= sharing and volunteering).
PS: Dienne, you remind me of my first female family Doctor who I had in my FOB years (fresh of boat). She seemed very understanding, but lost her coolness as soon as she heard what I said “” Honestly, I was not easily sick for 6 months lack of comfort in refugee camp”” Her sharp and quick reply with smirking smile was “”why didn’t you stay there?”” However, she is still much better than many other immigrant Doctors of today who never engage conversation to find out the true cause of sickness, except giving patients the free TRIAL MEDICATION/DRUG from VICIOUS pharmaceutical manufacturers.
The truth was that I worked three jobs (to cover shelter, food and tuition fee +) and struggled to get back to Colleges and Universities to earn my diplomas, certificates and degree in my first 15 years in Canada. Whereas, in temporary refugee camp, I only meditated and waited to emigrate to my future permanent country with support from charity (from Red Cross.).
So, Dienne, if you support people who have children but do not have time to care for their children, incidentally, you help and support the ORGANIZE OF CRIME, like terrorists, brothel house, gangster and all human trafficking activities.
Did you know that terrorists sold their lives for US currency $1000.00 or less? As per Tanisia Brown’s speech on the video at Chicago NPE conference, one or more kids join the gang for foods because their parents cannot feed them. Do you realize that healthy but poor young adult are tricks with empty promises like good job, movie star (for pornography without their acknowledge), then end up in labs where their vital ORGANS are sold to global black market?
Yes, parents with time to care for their children, that is matter to our social well-being as a whole. All business corporations with SUPER SKILLS in PR invest a small amount of money to buy out all intellectual people who are snobbish and lusty for material lifestyle to be their puppets who will bring them an extraordinary INTEREST in return.
As my mother always said to her children that IF people ONCE shake hands and deal with devil, they WILL NEVER ESCAPE devil’s GRIP, except DEATH IN SHAME, and REGRET. May
m4potw – your declamation on the ills sure to befall those born to parents who cannot afford to care for them is heartfelt, & I gather you have personally witnessed some pretty terrible outcomes. But I would suggest that there is some middle ground here. Such horrific outcomes for unsupported children are surely more likely seen in 3rd-world or otherwise rich/poor societies without social supports? Or are you saying you see that right here in our dear old USA?
I am ready to believe that such atrocities may befall uncared-for children in our most impoverished inner cities. And yet: in the ’80’s, when my husband & I were desperately seeking infants to adopt, there were none to be had– mainly because poor unwed mothers no longer needed to either abort or find a convent/adoption home to bear their children. They had nurseries to care for their infants right there in public high school. After graduation, there were relatives to help w/childcare as the mom sought employment– &/or food stamps, aid to dependent children, et al social support services.
You might, as a conservative, prefer such services be denied to the poor in favor of abstinence/ abortion. I have a different take as I believe that the combined forces of racism/classicism, combined with current legislation that creates a 1% fabulously-wealthy class while multiplying the number of poor/jobless — does not necessarily justify denying those without jobs the benefit of family.
Are you saying that today in the US– perhaps as a result of slashing budgets for food stamps et al safety-net support-services– we are in the same position as any 3rd-world country as regards throwing unsupported children to the wolves?
I will never be conservative in terms of selfish-ness, bully hard working class people, and shaking hand with business to harm Public Education
I only believe in humanity with conscience. May
“So, Dienne, if you support people who have children but do not have time to care for their children, incidentally, you help and support the ORGANIZE OF CRIME, like terrorists, brothel house, gangster and all human trafficking activities.”
What the–??? Right. Sigh. The fact is that people have kids they can’t/won’t afford/care for/whatever. What do you propose to do about that? Kill those kids? Mass sterilization? Think we’ve tried that before. Seems to me the only possible alternative is that we do the humane things – care about – and care for – those kids. Geez. Some of you people live in a fantasy world. Sure would be nice if all kids had two happy, healthy, gainfully employed, loving parents. But they don’t.
No, Dienne, I do not control nor impose any your sarcasm of suggestion which the past rulers have done. As a result, it is necessary to cultivate people the different between responsibility and negligence in dealing with young children WHO are NOT toy to play or discard upon marriage or divorce WITHOUT their COMMITMENT.
I am no longer naive to easily believe in any charity stories.(when the president and associates of charity organization pays themselves generously without any legal obligation. It is the worst for us who support terrorist/ communist organization!!!
Also, there is no possibility reason that can make sense for parents to be in between RESPONSIBLE, CARING parents and NEGLIGENT and CAREFREE parents,
Can any parents say that we are responsible, but negligent? Or we are caring, but carefree!
In the same vein, employers impose the strictly low wages on workers, but are interested in helping workers’ children education in college and career ready, can we believe in that promise?
There is always the way for anyone has the will. Nothing is easy to achieve without effort, hope, support and true caring. May
Ditto the thought….I feel the same way.
To Sp & Fr Freelancer:
I am sorry to write this type of INFO that I witnessed from oppressive society whether it is communist or capitalist.
Let’s take a deep breath and be truthful to our conscience. If you agree that we all need foods and shelter to survive physically. Yes?
After we satisfy with material, we all need EMOTIONAL ATTENTION such as love, NOT LUST. Yes? As a result, from young to old people without experiences in reality, they will fall into con artists’ trap, like flies to honey!
Wolf in sheep clothes, and hyenas (= organize of crime) are waiting for young lions (people with blind faith and illogical heart & mind) as their yummy meals (manipulation of naive and trusting people as tool for profit – see TFA? Match-maker “dating” website or mailed bride? Fashion shows with young models as high class escort (due to being drugged)? Beauty contest winners to be mistress for corporate sponsor? You can stretch your mind to things that you think it happens only in fiction, but becoming reality)
This is the real reason that educators should NOT ONLY cultivate learners about compassion, kindness, literature, music, drama, civility, stem, BUT ALSO emphasize to young mind about the cruelty in all wars that are created from power struggles, wealth privilege to maintain, and ego from righteousness + rightfulness class throughout history in civilization of mankind (should be man-cruel , or man-selfish, or man-ignorant?)
I hope that I clarify your doubt to my previous post. Back2basic.
I understand you May! As KTA writes “Keep the writings coming and I’ll keep reading and enjoying and learning!!
Duane
Parents need to read to students from birth, count with them, use correct words, teach “love, eyes, ears, hair, cheeks, lips, right left, 10 toes, fingers, elbows, knees, stand, sit, jump, reach, kiss, hug, cuddle, names, ABCs, objects, birds, animals, grass, trees, sky, empty, full, yes, no,” and on and on…every day at every opportunity. All from early on in life.
A parent as first teacher gives the child the foundation to learn with confidence. It is the parents’ respinsibility to teach a child how to be the best equipped person possible. Some want to provide things, but not time, attention, and eye contact.
No teacher should expect parents to have pedagogical skills. Support, not taking over the teaching are all that should be expected. Parents should not get bent out of shape for being told it is part of parenting to give a child number and word sense! It is as essential as food, diaper changing and love. The things that are NOT supportive of you child’s education is to tell him/her that mom and dad are always right or that the child makes no mistakes or that it is OK to beat up or bully other kids. That happens all too often.
Yes, yes, yes!
“Parents should not get bent out of shape for being told it is part of parenting to give a child number and word sense! It is as essential as food, diaper changing and love.”
Sorry can’t agree with that.
Although I basically agree with you on this, it is not my place to tell anyone how they “should” raise their children. It is up to each parent to do what they feel is correct for their children and not my place to judge what they do, unless it concerns outright abuse.
Geez. Let me qualify that with …”if they expect their child to be a successful person and a productive participant in society.”
I am not “telling” anyone what they ‘have to” do, but the consequences of being a nonparticipatory parent insofar as teaching a child number and word sense are much of what is problematic in our educational attitudes in the U.S. Some parents waltz right in with a chip on their shoulders and demand that WE make up for their lack of parenting skills.
So, yes, they SHOULD do these things of they care about their children.
‘Nuf said.
Again, I can’t agree that it is my duty nor right to judge people in the fashion of your statement ” they SHOULD do these things of they care about their children” You’re qualifying “if” statement doesn’t change anything in regards to a person’s right to bring up his/her children in whatever fashion they deem fit, again except for abusive situations, and not teaching the alphabet nor numbers doesn’t come close to qualifying for “abuse”. I may not agree with that decision. But to insist that the person SHOULD do something is in the same vein of attitude that the edudeformers have in trying to tell true educators what and how to do our jobs. And although one has the right to proclaim on issues that doesn’t mean that everyone else has the obligation to listen to and heed such advice.
“Some parents waltz right in with a chip on their shoulders and demand that WE make up for their lack of parenting skills. ”
In twenty years I’ve never had nor seen nor heard of a parent doing/saying so. Perhaps where you teach it is different. And that is what I think your beef is: Parents (or anyone) thinking that someone else should make up for their shortcomings no matter what. I empathize with you if you have had to undergo that type of interaction.
We, as public school teachers have to be very aware that “we are the gubmint” (as are so many others, not that some people don’t recognize that) and in our official duties sometimes our own beliefs must be tempered by a wide acceptance of many different points of view, lifestyles, etc. . . and that it is not our position to judge others.
“Judge not lest ye be judged. . . ” said a long dead Jew a couple of thousand years ago. Not bad advice then and certainly good advice now.
Judging? No. Advising. Yes. IF they expect or want the best for their kids, they need to be responsible. I am not judging them, just warning them. You are twisting my intent and that is hurtful. Bottom line, if a parent isn’t willing to parent, the child suffers. That is not my judgment. They can do as they please. You reap what you sow. When you don’t follow a recipe, the results are random.
Have a great day, Duane. I don’t need to spend my day explaining my thoughts to you. Sorry you choose to misinterpret.
I didn’t “choose to misinterpret”, it’s just that is how I interpreted what you wrote. There was no “intent to twist”, I try not to operate that way.
In communications the receiver many times interprets something different than the sender intends. I’m amazed that we all actually do communicate with, for the most part, as few glitches as we do considering the amazing complexity that is speech/written communication.
I mostly agree with what you post so please keep it up (even if I didn’t agree I would say keep posting). Ain’t no one who is beyond my feeble ability to question, including myself. And I do agree with you about “you reap what you sow”, no doubt. The choice of seed though also determines the harvest.
Hope where you are that the weather is better than the rain we have here. Have a good one
Excellent report on the realities of teaching, and how little support is given in return. Bravo!!
I am trying to email to Cuomo, which is a great idea, but the address isn’t working.
He, like Coleman doesn’t “give a shit” about what you think!
Just saying.
Totally in agreement with the frustration this career teacher has so diligently spent the time to EXPRESS what so many of us also feel and experience! The time it must have taken her to write this and post it, I am TRULY grateful to her. Politicians NEED to be reminded over and over that WHEN YOU POINT A FINGER AT SOMEONE [SOME INSTITUTION, etc.], THERE ARE THREE (3) FINGERS POINTING BACK AT THEM! Governors around our country seem to have this ABILITY to put themselves ABOVE ALL OTHERS, REGARDLESS OF THEIR EDUCATION, ACCOMPLISHMENTS, and RESULTS, and ESPECIALLY THEIR INPUT BASED ON BEING PROFESSIONALS. Governors have EGOs that far exceed that of a normal, rational, reasoning human being AND THEY IMPOSE THEIR “THOUGHTS and IDEAS” on how education systems should be run, WITHOUT EVER BEING IN THE PROFESSION or STEPPING FOOT INTO A CLASSROOM. Constituents that vote for these Governors NEED TO BE MORE RESPONSIBLE in regards to understanding what is the TRUE MOTIVATION of running for and becoming a Governor in the first place.
Damn, Rick, you win the capitalized words battle, I concede.
@Rick
You forgot that corporate backers have a magic wand that transforms or increases the winning with “MAGIC NUMBERS of votes” WITHOUT voters.
MOREOVER, even candidate is truly won the election, i.e. Glenda Ritz in Indiana; there is still a specifically creative legal DRAFT to remove Glenda Ritz, an official winner from her constituents’ trust and vote.
How could conscientious, intelligent people in the government let that happen?
Oh! I just read other post about the qualifications required to run for GOVERNOR, and PRESIDENT alike. YUP, YUP, YUP. I am sorry that I am just a law abiding citizen; I pay my tax duty; and I believe in PUBLIC RELATION from MEDIA. (waf and wtf!)
As a result, psychologically, con artists can trick NAIVE people to believe that they are THE TRUE ADVISER/solution for all problems. In the same vein, typical leader in general population can trick voters through media that is owned and operated by GREEDY BUSINESS corporations for PROFIT.
The lie that is kept repeating over and over, will eventually become MADE-IN-BELIEF as the truth. TIME is MONEY. Corporate backers have both TIME and MONEY.
This is the advantage for business GREED over-power people who only have either only TIME (retirees) or MONEY (inheritance), or NONE [young population, married with children :)]
That is reality! It is sad, but the truth! Back2basic