I flew to Salt Lake City on April 15, to lecture the next morning at Brigham Young University in Provo, about an hour from SLC. This is the longest trip I have taken since my knee surgery a year ago. BYU is a private, faith-based institution, firmly grounded in the Mormon religion. About 95% of the students are Mormon. The church subsidizes tuition, which is less than $6,000 a year. That is no more than the public university. I learn wherever I go, and I looked forward to learning about education in Utah.
As I went to baggage claim, there were several families holding “welcome home” banners. I thought for sure they were welcoming service members back from Afghanistan or some other battleground, but I was wrong. They were welcoming young people back who had served as missionaries in distant lands.
When I arrived, it was snowing, which I didn’t mind except for the fact that I couldn’t see the magnificent mountains. I had a couple of hours of down time to rest, then went to dinner with a group of BYU faculty, Dean Mary Anne Prater, and presenters from Boise State. We had a very pleasant meal at a Brazilian restaurant where the food kept coming until everyone had enough.
My guide was Gary Seastrand, a veteran and knowledgable educator. He was gracious, attentive, and thoughtful. There are some things I can’t do–like climbing steps to the podium without a handrail–and Gary was always there to guard and protect me.
The next day I spoke, then engaged in a lively question and answer session.
During and between meals, this is what I learned about Utah.
It is the lowest spending state in the nation. The legislature is very charter-friendly. Several legislators gave up their elected positions to open charters. Needless to say, none of these charter founders is an educator. The charters are typically Caucasian, with few, if any, children with disabilities or English language learners. The charters get more funding than public schools. Utah had a referendum on vouchers in 2007, and it was rejected by a margin of 62-38. Of course, there are still voucher supporters in the legislature, but they have already been turned down resoundingly by the voters. So, charters now have become the functional substitute for free-market fundamentalists.
Utah adopted the Common Core but dropped out of the SBAC testing. AIR developed new tests for Utah. Last year, when the tests were administered for the first time, most students were found to be “not proficient,” which the media interprets as “failed.” That is the pattern everywhere. When tests are aligned with the Common Core, no matter who develops them, most students fail.
Despite the obstacles thrown in their way by the state, the educators I met—principals, assistant principals, teachers, superintendents, and teacher educators–seemed remarkably cheerful about their jobs. I was repeatedly told by people about their love of teaching and their genuine dedication to their students.
Of course, many asked for guidance about how best to protect their schools from the wave of privatization that emanates from the legislature. I talked about the inspirational Néw York opt out and encouraged them to work together in unity against harmful policies. In unity there is strength. I was often reminded that Utah has a strong individualistic strain, which somehow co-exists with the Mormon commitment to service and social responsibility. In a state where Mormons are a significant presence, it is that idealism that must eventually prevail if public education is to be preserved.
When I left the next day, the clouds had lifted, and I could not take my eyes away from the exquisite snow-capped mountains.
I hope to return to Utah, next time as a tourist. What a beautiful state, with beautiful people. I need more time to take in the physical beauty.

You got your wonderful day at Brigham Young University the old-fashioned way—
You earned it.
May you have many other such days.
😎
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Glad to hear of your wonderful time. Never been to Utah myself but sounds like a place to put on my list.
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I’m a city guy at heart however, Utah is beautiful. My wife’s brother lives there and I must say I have never been to a place where everyone is so polite and courteous. Not to mention the plethora of outdoor activities that are available like snowboarding water skiing and driving dune buggies in the sand dunes. You will love it!
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Nothing like the West.
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Rats! I missed seeing you in Utah. Welcome anyway! You picked the worst weather day we have had in months to be here, though. We’ve been in a drought and haven’t had much snow this winter.
Utah IS a gorgeous state. We’re lucky that way. We are not lucky, as you saw, when it comes to funding or respect for public education. I fear that Utahns’ tendency towards following higher-ups (from the Mormon tradition) will make it hard to get much opt-out going here, but I REALLY hope we can get on board with the opt outs as New York has.
I hope you can get back out here sometime and that I can meet you in person. You also need to make sure to get to Southern Utah–the national parks can’t be beat!
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Threatened Out West: that’s my next vacation: Southern Utah. Send me your suggestions. Eager to see the stone formations in the desert.
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Capitol Reef National Park is very uncrowded in comparison to Zion and Bryce, and a gorgeous place to visit, a bit more off the beaten path. Arches and Canyonlands are also beautiful. Best time to visit the southern Utah parks is in April/early May or Mid-September. June – August it is hot and crowded.
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By far, Utah is the most beautiful state in our country. I have visited numerous times, and will head back for a brief trip this summer. The drive along highway 12 between Bryce Canyon and Capital Reef is perhaps the most stunning drive. It feels as if you’re driving on another planet. Be sure to visit Hell’s Backbone Grill for a great breakfast. If you are able to hike, a visit to “the Wave” in Coyotte Buttes North is a once in a lifetime experience.
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I love them all for different reasons. Capitol Reef and Arches are probably my favorite, though. In the late summer and fall, there are fruit trees in Capitol Reef that are free to pick for anyone at the park–delicious! Arches is simply amazing! The hike to Delicate Arch is probably not what you are going to be doing, but there is an overlook, and many arches and other formations can been seen from the road. Moab, the nearest town to Arches, is delightful. It can be crowded at times when there are Jeep Safaris or whatever in town, but when it’s not quite as crowded, it is beautiful and eclectic.
If you’re into history, as I am, there are quite a few Ancestral Puebloan sites (Anasazi) and Fremont sites, as well, all around this area. My favorites are Edge of the Cedars State Park in Blanding (an hour or so from Moab) and Fremont Indian State Park, where I-70 and I-15 intersect near Richfield (which is a couple of hours from Moab, but if you’re in the area, it’s WELL worth your time!).
WA Teacher is right: September/October or April/May are the best. Cooler weather and not as many people. I adore Zion, Bryce and Canyonlands as well.
I have suggestions for Northern Utah, as well, if you need them! I’m 7th generation in this state, with ancestors from all parts of it, so I’ve spent a fair amount of time around the state. My kids and I hiked part of the Zion Narrows last fall–spectacular!
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My favorite place in Southern Utah is The Maze in Canyonlands. But that’s admittedly a little hard to get to, though well worth it for the panoramic views and rock art (harvest scene). I know someone who drove most o fthe way into the maze (except for last 10 miles or so, which is a pretty gnarly jeep trail) in a two wheel drive sedan.
But it’s probably better for Diane to stick with the paved roads in the Nat’l parks. 🙂
In northern Utah, in addition to checking out Little and Big Cottonwood canyons, The Mirror Lake highway in the Uintas would be my suggestion for Diane, though as i recall, the latter usually doesn’t open up until late June sometime.
I used to spend a lot of time exploring when i lived out there.
haven’t been back in quite a while, though this talk has got me thinking…
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Definitely Mirror Lake Highway! For my money, though, Logan Canyon is just as spectacular, and not as crowded, as the Cottonwood Canyons. I’m an Aggie, so a love of Logan helps, but it is gorgeous up there!
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I am a BYU graduate. I didn’t know you were coming either. But I am thrilled that you came! My favorite park is Zion’s. We usually visit in July. It is very hot, but hiking in the evening is pleasant. The river walk is a must. There is a hidden trail that begins at Big Bend and meanders below Angel’s landing, Cable Mountain and the Great Pipe Organ. The hike ends at one stop called Weeping Rock. It is not widely used and we have encountered deer amount the tall grasses. No height issues either. We also like the Emerald pools and the Canyon Overlook. The Southern watch tower and the Paroos Trail are too hot. Be sure to pack water and snacks for energy and safety. The Angels landing trail is strenuous and requires no fear of heights. But the view is amazing.
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So glad you had a positive experience with positive things to say about it. Utah is beautiful. You must, just because it is Utah after all, visit at least one of the Temples there. I am bias towards the Salt Lake Temple because of the hand cut quarried granite stone from the Wasatch that was hauled back by the pioneers and the intricate details and craftsmanship that took 40 years for the pioneers to complete. It’s beautiful and means so much more than the beauty of the work. Right next to it is the conference center. Which is magnificent! Christmas specials and other performances and world wide conferences are held there that are top notch classy events. Not to mention powerfully spiritual. If you really take the time and do a vacation, take a few days and head South to Southern Utah and visit Zion National Park and the Grand Stair Case in Escalante which Clinton made a national monument while he was in office. There is also Moab, Canyon Lands, Capitol Reef and Brice Canyon. It’s beautiful, breath taking, warm and sunny. You won’t regret it and you will want to go back again and again. Because there is so much to see and impossible to do it in just one trip. Provo is nice too. But there is so much more to see.
Colleen Huston 🙂
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The LDS Temples are only for Mormons in good standing, though. But the grounds are lovely. The Salt Lake Temple grounds are my favorite (known as “Temple Square”). There is a really nice model of the interior of the temple, and gorgeous landscaping. For anyone, if you ever have a layover of a couple of hours in Salt Lake, there is a free shuttle that takes you from the airport to Temple Square and back again. The Tabernacle, home to the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, is also there.
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Several years ago I was out west and stopped at Salt Lake City. I parked my truck, my travel trailer was in a trailer park, near where I thought the tabernacle and temple were and as I climbed out of the truck a young man approached and asked me if I needed info. I told him I was looking for the tabernacle and temple and he walked me over to Temple Square. This was the original tabernacle, the new one was in the planning stages. A more friendly place was hard to imagine.
My background was in choral music and everyone had lauded the great Mormon choir. Years ago I must admit they did not impress me that much but with the director they have now: Gangbusters. He is phenomenal. With what must be a 300 voice volunteer choir to get the precision and nuances as well as tone quality is something to behold. With that large a choir there is a time lag in sound between those on the left and the right. No problem. They are synchronized exactly. How he accomplishes that is beyond me but he does. Now too with the orchestra, beautiful work. Also he makes GREAT arrangements. I don’t know how much they pay him or if like the Mormons he does this without pay but I do know that if they do indeed pay him, he is worth every cent of it.
Obviously it was a number of years ago when I was there
and
yes the mountains and scenery are gorgeous. I hiked in several national and state parks. My nieces husband had told me that Utah is the most beautiful state that few people realize the beauty that is there and I concur.
Dr. Ravitch, it IS beautiful but hiking in that topography may be out of the question in which case you will miss so VERY much. In those days I could and did hike. But even just going through them I think that you will be forever grateful you did go to view what you could see and yes, stop at the Salt Lake City too. Much history lies there and in Utah.
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The Choir has practices on Thursday nights from about 7-10 pm and performances on Sunday mornings at 9:30. I agree–Mack Wilberg, the director, is phenomenal, and his arrangements are terrific. He has actually done the hymn arrangements for the last three Presidential funerals.
I’m pretty sure that is Wilberg’s full-time job, so he would be paid, but I doubt it’s a whole lot. He used to be the choir professor at BYU, and that may have been more pay. The choir and orchestra are entirely volunteer, though.
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I had a similar experience in Salt Lake City, Utah when I presented at a Literacy Conference last year. I was so impressed with Salt Lake City because It is beautiful and very clean. The conference assigned someone to take me around to see the sights and hear the Tabernacle Choir. A woman in the park near the town center asked us for money to use the laundromat. A security person showed up immediately, called the woman by name and offered her a ride to the shelter. I had the impression that the Mormons take care of their own. I always recommend Salt Lake City to friends for a place to visit.
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Actually, that homeless policy is from the city of Salt Lake. Their new policy for panhandling is actually really humane. There has been a real push to address the root causes of homelessness. It seems to really be helping, although, of course, there is a lot of work still to do.
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My family witnessed a most amazing lightening storm over the Arches from a distance one night while driving through southern Utah . . .
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“Caucasian”? Really? Must you use this term? Do you mean European American? If these folks are really descended from the area of Caucasus, fine. If not, please realize that many of us European Americans do not wish to be identified by this term. Sort of like confusing a Colombian with a Puerto Rican…
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Dr. Ravitch, thank you for your comments about visiting Utah – it certainly is a unique and beautiful place!
We have our fair share of challenges with regard to public education, most notably a legislature that stubbornly refuses to adequately fund schools (even while we sit on a surplus of hundreds of millions of dollars) and which also likes to micromanage districts to the point of ridiculousness. Despite a very flawed public school “grading” system, I truly believe that the vast majority of our schools provide a high quality education to all children, and i am proud to call myself a Utah teacher.
I’m a member of NEA/UEA *and* The Badass Teachers Association. I’ve read your work for years, including the entirety of the “Bridging Differences” blog during its run. I’m sorry to have not been able to attend your BYU event, but I would LOVE to see you come to Southern Utah! As a resident of the St. George area (gateway to Zion National Park!) I will gladly host you for a dinner or a day, should you have the opportunity to visit us here in the land of red rocks – just say the word (or email it to amy_barton@icloud.com)! 🙂
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Excellent to see someone on here from Southern Utah! And a BAT as well!! I, too, am incredibly frustrated that we couldn’t get more funding this year when we have a $700 million dollar surplus.
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U never cease to amaze me. Your innocence about expressing simple joys in this post at our age filled me with hope. Nite nite
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I just moved up to Ogden to take a teaching job after 17 years in California. Ogden is the lowest performing district in the state and struggles mightily with poverty and lower economic opportunity. The teachers in Ogden are giving it their best shot. The love of charters in this state amazed me. Not only are the charters highly supported politically, but they have received large amounts of funding to build brand new facilities while older public schools struggle with maintenance. I am not sure how successful the charter school are in the Beehive State. But Utah subscribes and emphasizes the “stack’em deep and teach’em cheap” method of school funding.
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Like about anywhere, Milo, there are some charter schools that do better than public schools, and some charters that do far worse. Most are no better than the surrounding public schools, of course. The frustrating part is that charter schools seem to be this big status symbol around here. Everyone LOVES to brag that they go to such and such charter. We have that problem in my school (I’m in northern Davis county), because, while my public school offers a FAR superior education, the charter school gets all of these people who brag about the inferior charter. Drives me crazy.
Thanks for your hard work in Ogden! Great students, but a difficult environment.
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I love Utah and wish I could move there yesterday. Due to a tight budget, we just moved our daughter from private to public school this year, and we’re not happy AT ALL. No, we are not in an impoverished district. We are stuck in a deep blue, heavily-taxed district on Long Island, where ‘one-size-fits-all’ is the name of the game. Her public middle school refuses to nurture her strengths and is reluctant/slow to accommodate her weaknesses through her IEP. Nothing has come without a fight. From my vantage point in the land of “No”, those vouchers are looking pretty good.
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Vouchers are a HUGE waste of money. With Utah already spending far less than any other state (it’s about $6100 per pupil), the vouchers would have destroyed funding for public education, where about 87% of students go.
Talk to the teachers at your daughter’s school. I hear that from parents all the time–that I am not accommodating enough with their child’s IEP or whatever. When I explain to them what I actually AM doing to differentiate, the parents realize that I do A LOT for their child. I just don’t go around announcing to everyone what I do in my classroom. With a class load of 275 students (that’s NOT a type-o), including about 11% on IEPs, I work my tail off to help all students.
Also, as teachers, we can’t always read the minds of the students and/or parents. If something specific isn’t being done to help and your daughter isn’t asking for that help, then you need to ask. And she needs to learn to ask. I tell kids all the time that I’ll help them, but I can’t read their minds to know they need help.
Good luck.
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Vouchers are also a Trojan Horse for private schools, because where government money goes, the iron bands of control follow. Sweden is a good example. Common Core is beginning to flesh this out, as many former voucher supporters are seeing that CC would be forced on them as well.
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I was raised Mormon although I no longer practice the religion. I got a world class education at BYU and a strong foundation in child development and reading theory.
Mormon women have a few duties, their religion, their children, and their husband – in that order. The Mormons will never allow outsiders to dictate anything that harms any of those things to come into their state.
The charters and vouchers will be for religious reasons most likely.
Yes, sense of duty to serve is central to my life still. I have no children so my beautiful students are the center of my life.
If you make it to St George, Utah – you may as well drive the hour and a half and get to Vegas which has the largest group of Mormons that live outside of Utah.
And that is selfish on my part!
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I disagree that the charters and voucher fights in Utah are religious. It’s primarily money, with an outer shell of “superior” education. A lot of it is ego for the parents. But for the Utah legislature, it’s all about money. The major of legislators now work in real estate or “development,” and several legislators or their family members work for charter management organizations. Some of the legislators clothe their financial holdings in “religion” or “better for the children,” but it’s really all about the greenbacks.
But I agree with the rest of your comments.
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This post is like hanging on the fridge a beautiful postcard from a friend who visited Utah. Then everyone who comes into the kitchen comments on it. What a community you have created. I think this is why we will win.
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It was a wonderful pleasure to host Diane at our BYU Conference last week. She is a national treasure. Her voice for public education is extraordinarily candid. Participants in our conference are still buzzing today over her comments and her graciousness. As her host, I was so impressed with her kindness and thoughtfulness. Going to dinner was a real treat for those of us fortunate to participate. She made us all feel like dear friends. It is my hope that we will have the opportunity to host her again and give her a chance to see more of Utah.
Gary S.
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Next time you head west, Dr. Ravitch, many of us would like to show you around Idaho.
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@ threatenedoutwest, I am also in northern Davis county. My school is surrounded by charters. What patients don’t realize is that many of the charters are hiring the public school cast offs. The teachers have less training and experience than public school teachers. As a title one teacher, I feel that my school is threatened by this growth. I too have noticed parents bragging that their children attend charters. They are not any better than we are.
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Diane, thank you for coming to Utah and for describing the beautiful state that it is.
As one who is very involved in the Utah state legislature, I have been quite concerned about the growing conflict of interest there, especially the number of legislators that benefit from the development of charters and the public-private partnerships.
Mostly a Republican legislature, it makes no sense that the party that professes to be “free market” so strongly supports the very system that is destroying the free market of school choice: the charter school.
How do private schools compete with “FREE?”
I’m not nearly as concerned about the competition between public charters and regular public schools as I am about the unfair competition between public charters and private schools.
Utah was the pilot state for outcomes based education – the precursor to the common core standards in the1980s under Secretary of Ed T.H. Bell. Utah was on the cutting edge of the Computer Adaptive Test (see WICAT – Dustin Heustin). The Utahns Against Common Core parents and teachers have been on the front lines of the “opt out.” I hope you will connect with them.
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Thank you, Cherilyn,
Charters are destroying both public schools–by draining away public funding and good students–and private schools by being tuition-free. Catholic schools can’t compete with free.
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I think the question needs to be asked, Why? Why are so many parents choosing charters? You do those parents a HUGE disservice by assuming it’s all motivated by status. I know there is some of that, but there is far more to be said about valuing our freedom to choose, even to choose something that might be inferior but safer and a better fit for our kids.
The charters wouldn’t be prospering if they didn’t have something more to offer families than a status symbol. We just aren’t THAT shallow.
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Most charters in Utah exist for two reasons: big, regional districts have schools that are too big (which results from having districts that have grown too big), and the extreme constructivist philosophy that controls the curriculum that the districts refuse to balance.
I believe that the second problem will resolve itself, if the first problem is solved, (i.e. dividing these big districts into community-sized districts.
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Until the problems of large size in schools, caused by large size in districts, as well as the pedagogical extremes are solved, charters will continue to grow in Utah. Because there is no other alternative for parents.
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