A new study by Mathematica Policy Research finds that young corps members in Teach for America get no better results than other teachers.
Normally, this would not be big news, since TFA teachers have only five weeks of training. But for years, TFA has boasted that their young people were far superior to other teachers who had gone through professional preparation programs. Now, TFA leaders are claiming to be satisfied that their five weeks of training allows them to do just as well as those who spent a year or more learning to teach. The implicit logic of their perspective is that teaching is not a profession and that no preparation is needed beyond five weeks of TFA training. However you slice it, the TFA message degrades the profession. No profession would be considered to be a profession if any bright young person could succeed with only a few weeks of preparation. One cannot even imagine doctors or lawyers or accountants boasting that they were successful with a five-week training program.
The Mathematica study may not end the debate about the value of TFA. Its biggest fans seem to be the Walton Foundation, the Broad Foundation, and other foundations that want to support the proliferation of non-union charter schools with low costs and high teacher turnover. Walton gave $50 million to TFA; Broad collected $100 million from a group of foundations for TFA. And Arne Duncan gave TFA $50 million. TFA’s special contributions to American education, it appears, are to staff non-union charter schools and to demonstrate that teaching is not a profession.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
Although just a drop in the bucket compared to the millions given by the foundations listed, the new Arizona governor made $500,000 for TFA a permanent budget item in his hideous anti-public-ed/pro-private-prison budget that was just passed in a sneaky late night session.
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If they “get no better results than other teachers”, and the other teachers “had gone through professional preparation programs” and who also “spent a year or more learning to teach” that would imply (1) that, even with a mere “five weeks of TFA training” they get NO WORSE results either and, (2) those “professional preparation programs” and “year[s]…. of learning to teach” are essentially a waste both of time and society/taxpayer resources.
From that perspective, it’s not the “message” that “degrades the profession”, but rather the facts themselves. Of course, once teachers downgraded their status via “collective bargaining” and everybody-should-be-paid-the-same”gimme, gimme” demands, they really haven’t been engaged in a true profession to begin with, have they?
“Professional” is a term that’s earned. As this blog amply demonstrates, that’s something that seemingly a large percentage of [so-called] teachers don’t take into consideration much anymore.
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Ken, I’m in an interesting position. Right out of high school, my academic standing and test scores allowed me to win a “Best and Brightest” award that paid my college tuition in exchange for a promise to teach public school for eight years.
This could be seen as a sort of prototype of TFA, except that there was an actual obligation to stay in the classroom for close to a decade, and I was required to complete the conventional certification coursework.
I would have to agree that much of the teacher certification coursework I had to take was pretty useless. I used to tell my friends that I was taking the same courses over and over. It felt like there were maybe three or four useful courses that just got recycled. By the end of college I wasn’t even cracking the books open anymore — there was no need to, as I’d already seen most of the material.
Not that the material wasn’t useful! It was, but there didn’t seem to be enough of it to justify all of the courses that the state and college said were required.
Does this mean that teaching isn’t a profession? I don’t see why it would. But it does indicate that our teacher training colleges and programs have some things to answer for.
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I found teacher prep was only as good as what you put into it. I had some great professors who would respond to student interest if I took my coursework serious and that extra mile. But, yes, I had professors that had little interest. And cohorts on the classroom that were just getting by. But that was also true in studying for my other degrees not related to teaching, so not specific to teaching colleges. Find anyone successful in any profession or trade, and you will likely find a great mentor standing behind them. That is key.
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Ken Meyer, if the only definition of a good teacher is the ability to raise test scores, then TFA apparently is just as good at that as other teachers who are actually professionals. If there is more to teaching than test scores, then it is too soon to declare that “anyone can do it.”
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I think another important consideration is that TFA boasts to only take the best and the brightest. TFA targets students at the top of their classes at some of the top universities in the country, yet these top students come out as only average teachers. This suggests to me that either TFA needs to be more thoughtful in how they are selecting teachers or that there is a lot more to being a great teacher than being ‘the best and brightest in your class.’
Perhaps the greatest issue I have with TFA is that it burns out potentially strong teachers down the road. One of the greatest needs in education is determining how we can support our younger teachers and get them to stay in the classroom past three years when the greatest growth in a teachers ability happens. TFA completely undermines this by promoting the idea that you only have to give two ‘years of service.’
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Teaching is a long term committment beyond the 2 year TFA requirement. Yes, in any profession, what you learn in school does not always directly translate to daily practice. Residency and mentoring play a key role. But, if as you suggest, schooling has little effect, then why not just have a Treat for America? After 5 weeks, or 10 if you like, we throw candidates directly into medical residency programs, then just see how they do in surgery? Interesting, huh?
Ok, you teacher-bashers have won. You are the dog that caught the car. Teacher professional organizations (unions) are effectively neutralized by the Walker, Kasich, Bush, Christie, ALEC cabal. Teachers are now silenced, demonized, and reduced to second class status. The voice from the classroom is gone and transparency can be eliminated by nondisclosure agreements, threats of legal action and job loss, or corporate thuggery via hired goons. But you also now own it. So you better get world class results. Hell hath no fury like a parent when they realize the Reformers have destroyed the classroom for profit and self interest. That could be it for the careers of the anti-education Republicans, if not the party. If you think Jeb Bush, Bill Gates, or some coroprate exec cares more about students than the teacher in the school every day, then you must be pretty gullible or incredibly misinformed.
You anti-teacher types have spent the last 30 years undermining the classroom with a dog whistle, misogynic campaign of a “respect is earned, not given” mantra I hear from young kids mad about detention. Question is, what have teachers done to earn your disrespect? Grow up, please. Just because you were put in timeout in 6th grade for throwing spit wads does not mean all teachers are evil and out to get you. The reason we HAVE teachers’ unions, as they exist, is BECAUSE of people like you. Betcha you haven’t thought of that while yelling at the TV during Fox News.
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🙂
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Ken,
I’m interested in your definition of what being a “professional” is. Having worked for over twenty years as a professional geologist, with licenses in several states and certifications from several accrediting bodies, I’m not sure how joining a union takes all that away.
A professional works until the job is done. A professional advocates for their profession. A professional adheres to a common standard of ethics. A professional continually strives to improve their practice of their profession.
So in regards to teachers being professionals? Check, check, check, and check. I wil grant you there may be individuals who fail at those aspects of professionalism, but so too do many doctors, lawyers, and stock brokers, bankers, engineers, and even some geologists.
Those few bad apples don’t make those careers just jobs, and not professions. Nor does joining a democratic institution like a labor union make teaching not a profession.
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Rockhound, I agree but want to add to professionals work until the job is done – they also get paid accordingly. They don’t do piece work. I’m thinking of lawyers and billable hours.
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Absolutely.
Lawyers bill for piece work, but do they get paid accordingly? I had to be 100% billable (40 hours) when consulting, but still got paid an annual salary. I make less now than I did when working as a geologist, but only because I work 10 months a year and not 12. Salary levels in NYS are better than other states.
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You mean you get paid for ten months. You are one lucky dude if you have a teaching job where you walk out that last day and don’t do anything until your first day back in the fall. Now you are going to tell me that you actually take off those vacation days during the school year!
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Yes. of course. I get paid for the ten months of work I do during the school year. I do not get paid for work I do to improve my practice during the summer. I consider any work I do during those infernal weeks off mid-year as covered under my 10-month salary. Like any other professional, I work until the job is done – even when “off” the job.
I am lucky however, in that at my age I’ve been able to pay off the house and cars, and my child is all grownup and out on her own. Not a lot of expenses anymore, and so the somewhat smaller annual salary goes a bit farther.
I find teaching to be at times the easiest and the hardest job I’ve ever had. As Tevye observed “Sounds crazy, no?” When I’m in the classroom the energy flows easily, I’m in the zone having a ball and it is so much easier than sitting at a desk designing a groundwater remediation system. Then there is the work I take home now which dwarfs what I took home when working as a hydrogeologist. Then it’s harder, because I lose time with family and friends in the evenings and weekends, and the days off.
I have no desire to return to my former career. They couldn’t pay me enough to do that. Only if I lost my job teaching and was unable to find similar work would I contemplate a return to geological consulting.
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I felt the same way about teaching, both the easiest and the hardest job. I was only trying to make the point that you then made: the off the clock hours are significant and they don’t end because summer vacation starts or because the school is on winter break. It seems to be a not uncommon assumption that teachers only work when the kids are in school.
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If raising test scores are the ultimate goal of education, and teachers get paid as much as they want based on data point, then there is no reason these TFA folks will leave in less than three years. They are leaving classroom before they know what their “profession” is all about. Too much money is thrown into the pre-corporate training program. Their recrutors are being shooed off at department programs. Even their representatives admitted that their numbers are declining now.
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KMESOD!
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This has already been spun as a victory for TFA. I’ve read at least one article trumpeting that this data proves that TFA grads are just as good as conventionally educated teachers.
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I seriously doubt that TFAers are as effective as trained teachers in other subjects. I think math teachers fall into a different category because they are hard to find and keep in teaching. Many math teachers can use their skills in other fields where they can make a lot more money. While some math teachers are dedicated to math teaching, for many others it is a default career. When I taught high school, I noticed the math department had a higher turnover than most of the other departments. Most of the people leaving were young, and they had found a job in business. This trend was also somewhat true for the science department as well, although less so.
I have two children, both are smart. My son excels in math, and my daughter was average in math. My son was in advanced math, and he always got the best teachers. My daughter often got lemon math teachers. We had to reteach many topics at home because she had no idea of the concept being taught. Since I know how to teach and my husband is a math wiz, we would figure out a way to get the necessary understandings across to her so she would be able to do well in math. I often could tell from “Back to School” night, if my daughter was going to have a tough year in math. I could tell if the class had dusty old books in the corner, the presentation was hap hazard, and a sign that read, “A good day is pay day.”
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Yes, I started my career at a brick and mortar charter. There are few good teaching jobs in our state due to the Republican cuts to education. One new, young math teacher started out eager and slowly sank into stress induced sickness and depression. I have personally weathered 3 startups and cut throat, stacked rank companies, and the negativism and stress was the same as at this school, so I experience and coping skills dealing with it. Teacher turn over was 80-90%, pay was low. But unlike startups, there is no IPO and stock options in teaching. That new math teacher was very good, so much so, she left for a job in finance paying 50% more and she is much happier.
I love teaching, but hate education. By that, I mean I love math and working with students. I know my content and always seek to better my teaching through research and listening to veteran teachers much better than I. But I hate what the institution of education has become. Test driven, rank and yank, pound and punish. I can no longer show my students the beauty of math and science, but instead must focus on mindless testing, meaningless SLOs, and the constant drumbeat of clueless politicians telling me I am failure because I try to reach all students, not just the more capable.
As far as math, the body of knowledge is very axiomatic. Struggle in one area like fractions, and trig identities later are nearly insurmountable. This is true in other areas, certainly, but for some reason, a bad year in math seems difficult to overcome. My own kids experienced the poor math teachers you mentioned, and I am now trying to compensate. But these poor math teachers (always for the non “gifted”) are doing very well on our state’s teacher evaluations – probably because they are in a good district with involved parents. While excellent teachers in other less well off districts working with the most challenged students are ranked “ineffective” by our politicians.
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The same is true for anyone that teaches compensatory type classes such as remedial reading or ESL. I was an ESL teacher. Most of my students came from Haiti or Central America. Most of those students have little or no formal schooling, and they don’t fit the profile of a typical American student. Thank goodness I got out before I had to wear a “D” on my chest for “developing” as a teacher. My former colleagues are suffering due to being in a testing vice grip with the ultimate ax of punishment awaiting them.
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A lot of teacher preparation programs are down by at least 50%. I noticed that the study was done in math which has a lot of controversy around it anyway. I wonder what Lang. Arts would look like? I think this study should speak loud about the test that everyone is teaching to. As far as who teaches it, classroom observations have made teaching standardized and many good teacher can’t teach to get results. This study only shows that the standardized rubric for teaching and learning is not very good.
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Vavrik2014.. YES INDEED on your comment, “This study only shows that the standardized rubric for teaching and learning is not very good…”
Is anyone really buying into the notion that these standardized tests for example, reveal learning? Sadly way too many people are buying into this!
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“Is anyone really buying into the notion that these standardized tests for example, reveal learning?”
…or good teaching?
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Although these are comparisons of overal averages, we shouldn’t ignore them and what they might indicate. If TFA members and new teachers (which should be the appropriate comparison), it may refute some TFA claims.
But it also might be telling us that neither group is all that well prepared when they enter classrooms.
What we really need to see perhaps, is a comparison (on several metrics, not just test scores) of teachers five years in who entered as TFA and traditional pathways. Of course few TFA members stay that long.
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To pass the observation all teaching is standardized by a rubric. All this study says is the standardization is not working. Teachers who have taught for a long time have had to change methods to meet the standardization and pass the evaluation. I remember changing my class around to meet the rubric. I co taught with a speech pathologist and when it was over we both felt defeated. The rubric had taken out gradual release and had the kids talking to figure it out. Later, they put in gradual release instruction, but did not allow for the practice needed for new skills. People who have made the standardization no nothing about teaching and have left the direct instruction method out. That is why teachers get so upset with teaching to the test. Not everyone learns the same way.
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They found no difference in test scores for students taught by TFA and regular class room teachers.
That doesn’t mean there is no difference of any kind between the two groups.
Exclusive focus on test scores as a measure of teacher effectiveness is as misguided in this case as is it is with VAM (as ASA pointed out, teachers only account for a small percentage [1-14%] of variation in student test scores).
Only a fool would believe that boosting test scores is all there is to being a good teacher.
But the idea that it is valid to gauge the value of teachers based purely on student test scores is precisely what “reformers” want the public to believe because it is the foundation on which their entire house of cards rests.
As we see, even a “null result” (no difference) is spun as a “win” for them.
The “response” to this study should be to question its very basis: the assumption that student test scores make the teacher.
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Excellent point.
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A null result is a win because TFA is cheaper. Ultimately, it matters what is best for kids. I do not mind paying higher taxes to increase salaries, provided that it can be shown to lead to better education for children. But ultimately schools exit to educate children, not to give teachers money.
Presumably TFA and non-TFA teachers face equal (frequently perverse) incentives to teach to the test. Why are TFA teachers just as good at it? Shouldn’t this at least give people pause as to how it is possible that 5 weeks of training can plausibly appear to be as good as an education degree?
What I see in this thread is a classic case of moving the goalposts. When we see evidence that TFA and non-TFA teachers are just as good at getting higher test scores, the metric changes to something harder to measure. On the other hand, if TFA got worse results, this would be trumpeted from the rooftops.
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TFA used to boast they got higher scores. Now theyy boast they get the same scores. Don’t they understand that boasting is rude? Try humility and collaboration.
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If we decided to base teacher value assessment on the length of a teacher’s face (no more ridiculous than VAM) and determined that TFA teachers had faces that were just as long as those of regular teachers on average (Wendy Kopp being a clear outlier), some would undoubtedly say that TFA teachers were a ‘win”.
Who am I to argue with such logic?
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Not incidentally, one of the most famous examples of a “null result” in science had to do with the Michelson-Morley experiment.
Physicists came up with all sorts of wild theories to “explain” the “null result” and thereby preserve the “luminiferous aether”, which, at the time was believed to pervade all space and act as an absolute rest frame. preserving the aether was no mean task because it had to have highly unphysical properties.
Einstein took a different approach and took the null result at face value “What if the null result is actually telling us that there is no aether?”
Einstein’s special theory of relativity banished the aether to the trash heap of science.
In other words, the “null result” was telling scientists something that nearly all of them except for Einstein did not want to hear: check your basic assumptions about the existence of an aether, (which turned out not to be real).
In the above case of the null result for test scores(TFA vs regular teachers), the obvious question should be: what if the null result is actually yet another indication that student test score improvements are not a valid way to gauge teaching? (something that many other studies have also indicated)
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“A null result is a win because TFA is cheaper.”
“What I see in this thread is a classic case of moving the goalposts.”
Uh, this posting and most of its thread point out that TFA and the self-styled “education reformers” are—as they are wont to do—making ridiculous self-impaling claims by moving, redefining and making goalposts appear/disappear at will.
With all due respect, I must applaud the [apparent] attempt to parody the meandering musings of the “nattering nabobs of negativity” re public schools aka the thought leaders of the “new civil rights movement of our time.”
I can only say thank you for following doctor’s orders:
“A day without laughter is a day wasted.”
¿? Dr. Charlie Chaplin, of course, a Ph.D. in Laughology with a specialization in Smile-esthenics.
This day has not been wasted.
😎
P.S. I never thought I could work Spiro Agnew into a thread on this blog. I am pleased to have proven myself wrong…
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Where did I imply that TFA has never moved goalposts? As new data has come in, and it turns out that they may or may not be better, it is only natural that they should change what they say and be honest in what they claim. Just because TFA has moved the goalposts does not mean its opponents can’t as well. If TFA is hypothetically equally as good, and TFA is cheaper, then the school district should choose TFA simply for financial reasons.
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How is it that TFA has not permeated university and college teaching positions? Is that not what current professors there need? It would save even more money than adjuncts, no?
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Let’s design the program Robert. There is money to be made.
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Well, colleges and unis already have the system of slave labor known as “TA’s” and they get paid much less than TFA recruits (and don’t even get 5 weeks of training!)
Of course, there is no parent company (and Wendy Kopp CEO equivalent) that is making a killing off of TA’s as with TFA, so maybe that is worth looking into.
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“save more”, no.
“teaching economist” made a claim of outlier pay.
Most adjunct pay isn’t sufficient to live on. Research showed adjuncts, in general, put their full-time jobs ahead of their commitment to the colleges’ students, for obvious reasons.
Public higher ed. is under attack in Ariz., Wisc…. Federal pensions will be next.
Jefferson warned the nation against the United Corporations of America. Gates, the Kochs and Waltons have destroyed the fabric of the American community, replacing it with social Darwinism.
The sun set on the American experiment in democracy, when the people elected a Democrat with the hope he would turn the tide.
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Common sense should tell us that most teachers who have had a great deal of experience are “better” teachers than those who have had only 5 weeks of training. They’ve given their time to developing their skills and even if they haven’t had a lot of professional development, they’ve had the experience of being in a classroom. It’s this way in any profession – law, medicine, etc. I’m coming more and more to the conclusion that teacher effectiveness can’t be measured. There are just too many factors involved. We are trying to measure things that can’t be measured with the tools (tests, etc.) we are tying to use. Even rubrics that administrators use to rate teachers during observations are problematic. Until we finally relinquish the idea that data, technology, and elimination of any human factor involved (which is impossible) can provide all the answers, we will continue to have these debates. Neil Postman relates that it was William Farish in 1792 who first thought of grading students. Postman says of Farish’s idea, “If a number can be given to the quality of a thought, then a number can be given to the qualities of mercy, love, hate, beauty, creativity, intelligence, even sanity itself.” This is what we are trying to do – reduce our perception of “good teaching” to a number (student test scores) and a phrase: “highly effective,” “effective,” etc. But I think we have to see the current testing frenzy as a concerted plot for corporate gain without any regard to what it is doing to our children as human beings. Should 3rd and 4th graders sit in front of a computer for hours? I can’t even get 6th graders to sit in their seats for an hour. Common sense, not reliance on data, should tell us so.
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There is an ENORMOUS difference between a novice teacher who went the traditional route, actually WANTS to teach, has clinical 1 & 2 experience in front of the classroom, etc. and a 5-weeks of training scab who really doesn’t even want to teach, but wants a weekend masters degree, debt forgiveness, and a step into the door of a Wall Street firm, or a resume booster for law school. I’m sure the law schools laugh at TFA too now; they must know its a load of BS.
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TFA are also present in traditional public schools.
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Yes, and tenured teachers are put on teams with them to help them.
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TFA gets “good” test scores because that it is the definitive measure of what is called “success” in our public schools today – thanks to NCLB and RttT. In those 5 weeks of training that’s what TFA is focussed on. Teachers who are educated in child development, adolescent psychology, subject area methodology and education measurement know that test scores are just a measure of how well students take tests – not of intelligence and certainly not of achievement.
Barnum and Bailey have decided to let the elephants go because the public understands it’s cruel to subject intelligent animals to performing tricks for our entertainment. Waiting for the DOE to have the same insight about our kids.
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“Barnum and Bailey have decided to let the elephants go because the public understands it’s cruel to subject intelligent animals to performing tricks for our entertainment. Waiting for the DOE to have the same insight about our kids.”
Don’t wait too long.
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“Why there is no Teach for Barnum and Bailey Circus”
Teach for Barnum and Bailey
Teach for high wire act
New folks needed daily
Cuz gravity is a fact
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If TFA do as well, it’s because other teachers are carrying them. I will never, ever help another TFA teacher. It’s draining, time-consuming and it eats up time I’d rather spend on my own students.
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Another aspect of TFA’s special contribution is to continue the cycle that the oligarchs, the kids with family cash, are the ones to get special treatment. Many had already begun with a step up on the middle and lower class. Yes, TFA is classist. Of course the billionaire’s support them because then money goes to money, and displaces the regular little people from these positions. TFA has done nothing but enrich Wendy and her ilk, her charter school husband and his ilk, brought an ROI to the “philanthropists” and eroded the middle class. Hall of shame for all of them. I think that the college grads TFA seeks out to brainwash have become aware of the spin and no longer want to participate. No matter how TFA spins that their recruits are down, perhaps it is because the little people and the college grads are no longer drinking Wendy’s lethal kool aid.
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I do not call myself an education “professional” because of my past training, but because of what I do today and in the future. Spending 10 years in the classroom, in the front lines of education, and I’m always in pursuit to be the best in my field. Continuing to learn my craft to make myself a better teacher & to make my students better than when they entered my doors. THIS is why I am a professional. I stay. I am here. Through all the hardship & test scores, through all the “teacher banshers” & people who think they can do my job better, through all the parents, who want me reprimanded because I give their child consequences. Through all the good times, and bad. I stay. Because I care about kids and I care about education.
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From the study:
“Submitted to
:
Teach For America [TFA]
1413 K St. NW, 7th Floor
Washington, DC 20005
Project Officer: Jason Atwood
Submitted by:
Mathematica Policy Research [MPR]
P.O. Box 2393
Princeton, NJ 08543
Project Director:
Melissa A. Clark
Reference Number:
06889.74”
From the intro:
“To estimate the effectiveness of TFA teachers relative to the comparison teachers, we compared end of year test scores of students assigned to the TFA teachers and those assigned to the comparison teachers.”
Anaylsis based on test scores by MPR to TFA.
Considering the invalidity of standardized test scores used as proxy for teacher effectiveness, the study is nothing more than mental masturbation. Any conclusions drawn are COMPLETELY INVALID.
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“One cannot even imagine doctors or lawyers or accountants boasting that they were successful with a five-week training program.”
However, one cannot imagine doctors or lawyers PROVING through a rigorous study that 5 weeks of training was equal to a 3 or 4 year training program. And if there was a study proving such an equivalence, that would lead everyone to question the value of requiring completion of such expensive, time-consuming, and useless programs.
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Typical strawman. 5 week of training may be enough for those who already have substantial teaching experience(mainimum 3-5 years) and qualification, but definitely not for many of those who have little or no classroom experience.
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Reblogged this on David R. Taylor-Thoughts on Texas Education.
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Wall Street is not a profession. It took no talent (and, it shouldn’t take effort) to drag down American GDP.
It took no training for Gates to be a tech mogul. He proved that when he dropped out of college.
Both groups should stop whining and stop funding villainthropies.
Let the American people make decisions about education. They built the country and defended it against tyranny.
The only thing that is not empty, about the reformers, is their pockets.
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How many Wall Street and tech cowards have made, even one sacrifice, for the nation?
The reformers have no high ground from which to speak.
It would be quite a display, if at the next education forum, every teacher held up a sign with a number. The count would identify the number of family members who had served in the military.
The count from Wall Street and tech world…. 0.
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So smart, cheap teaching temps are just as good at test prepping 8 year olds in math as veteran teachers committed to the whole child for careers spanning two generations (not two years). For most parents, this would be an easy call.
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In 2014, 10% of TFA recruits were education majors.
Average SAT of TFAer – 1344
Average SAT of veteran EST – 980
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From educationalrealist:
“TFA has also started pushing hard for veterans, who worked for an organization that trains personnel based on cognitive ability.”
Hey, Mr. Edrealist, I’ve got some great ocean front property to sell you over at Lake of the Ozarks in Central Missouri. It’s a bargain, operators are standing by.
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I don’t know if they are just as good. They probably spend a lot more time doing test prep than a skilled veteran.
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There are lots of stories about career pretenders, who short term, appear competent.
The unmasking is in the long term,
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Especially if the only measure of success is a bubble test.
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2o2t,
How does one “measure success”?? (especially with a bubble test, eh!!)
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Exactly.
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