An article in Huffington Post reports on a study by University of Michigan researchers, led by Professor Sarah Reckhow, who found that the rhetoric of charter schools is very appealing to the public, especially to conservatives. Think of it: charters promise high achievement, better graduation rates, student success, all at a reduced cost to taxpayers. They promise that every child will go to a four-year college; not just any college, but an Ivy League college. Promise them anything but give them Arpege (for those not old enough to remember, that was a perfume ad, but lots of other words are substituted for “Arpege,” like “the shaft,” or “tyranny,” or “nothing.”). Promises, very alluring. Put that rhetoric against the reality of public schools, where some students don’t succeed, some don’t graduate, and some have low achievement. Supporters of public schools need to hone their rhetoric; the public likes the idea of non-union schools, at least in Michigan, and they don’t seem troubled by the idea of privatization. The language used by charter advocates has great appeal, even when it is not true. That must be why snake oil salesmen made a lot of money hawking their wares at state fairs in the 19th century, and why diet books continue to be best-sellers. It is the old P.T. Barnum rule.
Although charters are supported more by conservatives than liberals, they have bipartisan support, most notably from President Obama and Secretary Duncan. Add to that the strong charter advocacy of Jeb Bush, Scott Walker, John Kasich, Rick Snyder, Rick Scott, Nathan Deal, and every other conservative governor, as well as ALEC, and it is a winning combination, politically if not educationally.
Groups against the expansion of charter schools typically argue that charter schools serve to privatize public education, thereby exacerbating existing inequalities. Supporters of charter schools, on the other hand, say that they offer parents a choice, and that employing nonunion teachers can help spur innovation.
The researchers found that self-reported conservatives were more likely to express support for charter schools when they learned that these schools employed nonunion teachers, while liberals were more likely to turn against charter schools when presented with information about the role of private companies in their operations — although this made less of an impact. Arguments against unions seemed to resonate more strongly with participants, and made them significantly more likely to support charter schools….
[Professor Sarah] Reckhow also noted that when people were asked if they support the proliferation of charter schools in their communities versus in the state’s lowest-performing districts, they were more likely to favor increasing the number of charter schools in failing areas. She told HuffPost she thought this was because respondents might be satisfied with their local school options, and might be more likely to support charter schools in places where they feel distant from the schools’ impact.
Still, certain aspects about Michigan politics and the state’s charter landscape may have also impacted the results.
“Michigan recently became a ‘right-to-work’ state,” noted Reckhow. This means that in Michigan, it is illegal to require groups of workers to pay union dues as a precondition for employment. In recent years, union membership in Michigan has dropped.
“This is a visible issue in Michigan,” said Reckhow. “Once you bring unions into the equation, it does affect public perception.”
The survey did not measure participants’ reactions to charter schools after learning about their academic results, although Reckhow said she would have been curious to see that data.
“In Michigan, charter schools run the gamut — some schools are high-performing and do better than nearby public schools, and a good number of charter schools are in the bottom 25 percent of schools in the state, they probably should be shut down but they’re not being shut down,” said Reckhow. “The limitation of the study is we really can’t deal with that type of question.”
Interesting that people liked the idea of charters…for other people’s children.

Like district public schools, charters vary widely.
Diane wrote, “Think of it: charters promise high achievement, better graduation rates, student success, all at a reduced cost to taxpayers. They promise that every child will go to a four-year college; not just any college, but an Ivy League college.”
These assertions will come as a considerable surprise to many wonderful people working in charters.
Sweeping assertions about district or charter public schools deserve to be examined carefully.
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Joe, the whole selling point of the charter chains is the claim that “excellence” is scalable. So do you dispute that? Are you saying that these charters are lying? Or at least stretching the truth? Do you condone that?
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Dienne, what community to you live in? What do the district public schools tell real estate agents about the local schools? Have you fact checked what they tell real estate agents?
Personally, I’m a fan of state report cards that provide accurate information about many dimensions of a school. And I’m a fan of making that info widely available to families in various formats. Are you?
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No one moves to my community because of the schools.
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Joe, the problem is that you’re making the assumption that state report cards are accurate. In my state, they’re debating the third change to report card rankings in three years.
And what exactly is measured? Simply based on state tests usually with maybe a little graduation rate number thrown in.
Those report cards can’t measure all of the other things that go into a school much like the new evaluation systems stress only things that can be measured.
As we saw in Indiana under Bennett, those report cards can be gamed. Once the formula becomes known then schools simply make changes to get the numbers. You know, like counseling out low achievers, never backfilling seats, shrinking a freshmen cohort from 120 to 45 by the time they’re seniors, having all 45 seniors graduate, then claiming a 100% grad rate.
No problem there.
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AND, the formulas are really inadequate. Teachers and schools account for less than 30% of the variance in achievement gain scores. The rest of the variance comes from factors outside the school and teachers’ control.
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Steve, I’d favor a variety of measures on a report card. What would you support? And perhaps an independent entity, not the state dept, to create the report cards. Again, what do you think?
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You are so nice, education this man as to how his assumptions are so off-base, as if it matters… he is sincere…he believes what he says.
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Perhaps you missed the careful examinations HERE, of the charter corruption and failures in some of the 15,880 districts that are NOT like yours.
perhaps you are missing the bigger picture, that public education worked and was the road to opportunity for all Americans until the oligarchs (who Diane labels ‘the billionaires boy’s club) broke it so they could fix it.
Perhaps you missed the TRUTH that lobbyists are selling charters by touting the success of a few, while the reality is that in the preponderance of charter schools examined, they have not exceeded the success demonstrated in most public schools, and that after cherry picking their students.
I applaud your school, and your teachers, and say ‘lucky’ kids’ that get CHOSEN to attend…. but Joe, Joe, you do read the real facts here!!!!
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Joe, I am not surprised because what Reckhow described is EXACTLY what happened in my suburban district.
A new charter opened up in the neighboring district (right across the street from the city boundary). The charter school trolled two apartment complexes that are populated with heavy Asian populations. Here was their sales pitch: Our school will be more rigorous than your current public school.
My district is tremendously diverse in terms of socioeconomics. Two mile east of those apartment complexes is the most impoverished part of our district. When our district informed the recruited population that they needed notification of leaving the district by a particular date for budget purposes, the poorer area of our community asked what was happening. They expressed no knowledge that a charter had gone up nearby.
So, a school with no track record promises rigor (cannot be disproven because they have no track record). They then target a specific community / type of family with this seductive pitch.
Joe, I hate to break it to you but this stuff happens! I think you want to believe that it doesn’t or that the competitive playing field is level. But, here in Michigan, it is not.
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Steve, I certainly can believe a charter did what you describe.
Suburban districts all over the country advertise, as do some urban districts. I’ve seen this in city magazines and magazines focusing on middle and upper income families for decades. Here’s a link to the “Parent magazine” circulated in affluent areas of Minneapolis/St Paul. You’ll note listings for both Hopkins (a suburb) and Minneapolis (urban)
http://www.minnesotaparent.com/directory
Advertising happens all the time, with some district & some charters.
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There are none so blind as those who will not see, Joe.
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Thanks for the admission, Joe but I’d like to point out that you narrowed the argument considerably.
First, when you admit that charter performance is just as uneven as public schools, then why have choice at all. From what I’ve seen in Detroit, charters are just as awful. The choice is false when the quality is uneven or unpredictable.
Second, public school advertising in my state NEVER occurred until charters were uncapped. Now, public money is being used for marketing rather than the classroom. (National Heritage Academies bought the entire week of advertising on the Detroit Free Press website during the run of charter school articles to attempt to blunt the criticism. That cost nearly $1M! My suburban district just filed a deficit elimination plan for the first time in its history. Seems like for-profit NHA is cleaning up through it’s awesome lease deals.)
With competition comes costs that are diverted from the real purpose of education.
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Steve if you are talking about Michigan, suburban districts marketed themselves to real estate agents long before the charter idea.
I already commented on why I think options are valuable. But more important that what I think – clearly millions of American families are looking for options – starting with the biggest publicly subsidized option of all, suburbs.
Perhaps you oppose that option (Suburbs)? If so, please explain how you will eliminate it.
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Joe, I confess to having no idea how suburbs are publicly subsidized options. Do you mean because suburban families can choose their community? If so, that’s just silly.
And “marketing” to real estate agents is not nearly in the same league as radio ads, tv ads and billboards. The cost difference is huge and the marketing is far less cutthroat.
I’m sorry, Joe, I know you’re an advocate of school choice. But the current system of choice is so manipulated and tilted in favor of charters that it’s ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as your “eliminate the suburbs choice” question. You’re truly reaching there.
You’re in Minnesota. Spend five seconds watching how charters in Michigan are profit centers playing by significantly different rules than public schools and you’d see why I have my attitude.
Charters ultimately choose their students. School choice is the right term because in Michigan, the schools choose. Next month, we’ll get the charter dump: after count day and before state testing, they’ll counsel out those they deem aren’t good fits;
Can we just agree that the competition isn’t level? Charters have so much more freedom to mold their student bodies and so much less transparency in revealing their finances. They also have almost no legacy costs because they haven’t been around long enough.
Tell you what, I’ll try to come up with an answer to your puzzling suburban conundrum when you address the manipulative practices of several charter schools. The few good ones are held up as the shining exemplars when most are at best doing no better than the other “option.” And that poor performance is especially inexcusable when they are getting better students on average.
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Steve you asked How are suburbs publicly subsidized? Families are allowed to deduct from their taxable income real estate taxes (which in many exclusive suburbs are much higher than in cities). Families also are allowed to deduct interest on home payments from their taxable income. Both are huge subsidies to families who can afford to live in exclusive suburbs where homes are very expensive and real estate taxes are high.
I’ve been in Michigan many times and agree that competition is intense. It’s not just between district & charter. It’s also between urban and suburban. Some suburbs spent a lot on advertising.
Also, more is being spent on suburban than district urban public schools in Michigan. I’d say that’s unfair and wrong. Do you agree?
Charters on average don’t receive as much per pupil district public schools. This study says in Michigan, the difference is more than $3,600 per pupil (!3,118 for the average district school, $9485 for the average charter).
Click to access charter-funding-inequity-expands.pdf
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Joe,
Per your last point, charters should NOT get equalized funding. First, they are generating profits through paying cheap inexperienced teachers. Also, since they are so new they have no legacy costs. District pay for a sizable chunk of pensions. This is the one cost that is completely avoided by a five year old charter school. Charters also don’t provide other services (like busing). (By the way, not busing is a big way to guarantee that a charter only attracts functioning families.)
Also, charters started out with the promise of being more cost-effective. It was one of their major selling points as little as three years ago, Now, with their state of being a fixture, suddenly they whine for more money.
Also, your subsidization point refers to affluent communities. Considering the Michigan economy for the last dozen years, affluence has vanished in many suburbs. Plus, that is not the policy of the schools. They aren’t responsible for such tax laws.
Urban and suburban differences are unfair.
You did not address my point on advertising. Five years ago no public school advertised. That was the point. Of course everyone’s advertising NOW. They didn’t before charters were uncapped. And suburbs will keep advertising in Detroit because nearly every option in Detroit has a bad reputation and that includes numerous charters.
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Spending day with family. Have a nice day.
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There is no winning with someone who listens only to his own voice, and enjoys posing questions that waste people’s time. If you are hoping to inform this man, it is like giving medicine to a deaf man… he is deaf to reason, and believes what he knows it truth.
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My daughter’s friend took a job in a NY charter. She lasted 3 months and had a nervous breakdown. Joe, haven’t seen you here in a while. Tell me how wonderful charters are again, please.
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“An appeal to Orwell”
Newspeak’s more appealing
Than stark reality
The charter’s simply steeling
A page from Orwell, see?
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OMG…gross. Glad I no longer am a public school teacher in Michigan. I taught in Hawai’i, Michigan, Ohio, Colorado, and California…ALL GRADES K-12. I made a positive difference and my students enjoyed school, learned, and questioned, because I followed the students intterests and needs. Now, it’s all just about the horrid CC and testing. Sooooooo SAD and BAD.
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Exactly… it is all about the manipulating of statistics to sell Magic Elixirs and offer misleading information as ‘facts.
Recently SELLING TECH as a panacea for learning, even as they trow out the real practitioners of pedagogy. Here’s what the research says in the NY Times today
http://www.opednews.com/Quicklink/Can-Students-Have-Too-Much-in-Sci_Tech-Computers_Education_Evidence_FACT-150131-33.html#comment530911
A SHORT SUMMARY:
“More technology in the classroom has long been a policy-making panacea. But mounting evidence shows that showering students, especially those from struggling families, with networked devices will not shrink the class divide in education. If anything, it will widen it. The research shows “Students who gain access to a home computer between the 5th and 8th grades tend to witness a persistent decline in reading and math scores,” the economists wrote, adding that license to surf the Internet was also linked to lower grades in younger children.”In fact, the students’ academic scores dropped and remained depressed for as long as the researchers kept tabs on them. What’s worse, the weaker students (boys, African-Americans) were more adversely affected than the rest. When their computers arrived, their reading scores fell off a cliff
and what I have to say about these ‘fixes’ for wha tTHEY broke when they threw out the teachers:
A sample from my essay,Magic Elixir, no evidence required, here, which begins:
“The field of education is awash in conflicting goals, research ‘wars,’ and profiteers.” D.T. Willingham
Daniel Willingham’s wonderful piece “Measured Approach or Magical Elixir? how to Tell Good Science from Bad” in The American Educator discussed how magical’ elixirs –curricular and technology — are sold to school districts because no one demands EVIDENCE.
“Suppose you’re a doctor. You go through medical school and residency, learning the most up-to-date techniques and treatments. Then you go into family practice, and you’re an awesome doctor. But science doesn’t stand still once you’ve finished your training. You were up to date the year you graduated, but researchers keep discovering new things. how can you possibly keep up with the latest developments when, according to Pubmed.gov6-19-11 , more than 900,000 articles are published in medical journals each year?
“Medicine has solved this problem for practitioners by publishing annual summaries of research that boil down the findings to recommendations for changes in practice.’ [i.e. evidence] ” Physicians can buy summary volumes that let them know whether there is substantial scientific evidence indicating that they ought to change their treatment of a particular condition… in other words, the profession does not expect that practitioners will keep up with the research literature themselves. That job goes to a small set of people who can devote the time needed to it.”
“In education, there are no federal or state laws protecting consumers from bad educational practices. And education researchers have never united as a field to agree on methods or curricula or practices that have sound scientific backing. That makes it very difficult for the non-expert simply to look to a panel of experts for the state of the art in education research. There are no universally acknowledged experts. Every parent, administrator, and teacher is on his or her own. ”
“The field of education is awash in conflicting goals, research “wars,” and profiteers” Unfortunately, distinguishing between good and bad science is not easy. evaluating whether or not a claim really is supported by good research is like buying a car. There’s an optimal solution to the problem, which is to read and digest all of the relevant research, but most of us don’t have time to execute the optimal solution” … it’s hardly news that an educational reform idea attracted serious attention despite the fact that there was no evidence supporting it.”
Willingham concludes: “If that were uncommon, I would have had no reason to write this article or the book from which it is drawn: ‘When Can You Trust the Experts? How to Tell Good Science from Bad in Education’. ”
I ADD THIS;
Education theory, based on years of brain research learning, gets thrown out, when lobbyists push a district to adopt some ‘new’ reform.
It is so easy to replace real professional practice with a narrative about teaching (instead of LEARNING) such as the one that Duncan, Koch Gates etc have pushed into the center of the debate on what works. These charlatans who are working for the oligarchs which need to dumb down our people by ending public education (which is the only road to opportunity)
I have always been astonished, how every cockamamie study that is published based on a small population in some tiny district in California, pushes out real research. I was teaching when out of Ca. came open classrooms… the noise made it impossible to learn. I saw ‘word walls’ and ‘balanced literacy’ be forced on teachers, who had children that had no English words, and needed real pedagogues to practice learning techniques that ensured that the human brain can acquire the necessary skills.
And if YOU really want to know the TRUTH about the devastation to public education that is ONGOING right now, go to the Diane Ravitch blog, and read how the war on our schools is taking out public education in the 50 states!
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Susan, one thing you and I agree on, as former public school teachers, is that having no walls made no sense. Some of us helped start a k-12 Open School as part of the St. Paul district in 1971…that school is still operating, now as grades 6-12.
But when we met with architects, they suggested no walls. We teachers disagreed and fortunately had the power to resist the architects.
The teacher powered/teacher led school movement is working to put public school teachers back in the position of being able to create public schools open to all, that reflect what the participating teachers think makes sense.
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How blind are you? The teacher powered/teacher led movement is being squashed by corporate controlled charter chains and corporate controlled “reform” mandates like Common Core and standardized tests. If you really care about the “teacher powered/teacher led movement”, you need to put down the rephorm and back away slowly. Or, better yet, run like hell.
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I certainly hope so. If we do not take back our profession , all is for naught.
Click to access editors_note.pdf
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Teaching at a charter school isn’t being a “public school teacher,” Joe. Having dealt with both kinds of schools, and having a ton of kids come back from charter schools REALLY academically behind, I know how different the two really are.
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TOW – Some charter teachers have had similar experiences as you’ve had – youngsters transferred in from charters way behind. But as noted before, there are all kinds of district & charter schools.
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And yet, Joe, the kids who are academically behind come from charter schools that seem to magically have higher state “grades” than my school. And yet, they’re way behind my public school with the “lower grade.” Care to explain that?
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If you want to cite specific schools in specific states, sure.
Having worked in and with alternative public schools over the last 40 years, I’ve learned the “encouragement” of some student to leave mid year is unfortunately unquestionably done. That’s why I think one fact a state report card for each school ought to include is the number and percentage of students retained during the year.
This statistic is complicated because in some cases movement in and out represents families moving. In some cases it represents students being encouraged by educators to transfer out.
Do you think that would be worth reporting?
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This is a well recognized phenomenon in Florida. People also see the problems with school reform. The vision for what school could be and should be is lacking. We did a post called “Come Dream With Me” about an SRI presentation to our Senate Education Committee. The vision was there. The cost was there. The realization that all of this is still in its infancy was there. Will our Senate go with the long term approach to creating curriculum with online simulations and teacher led projects to utilize them??
You can see the post at: lwveducation.com. You can watch the video. You can help form the vision of what could be if we did not dissipate our resources into choice programs that do not work.
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Well recognized by all of the practitioners who experience it, but unknown to the public as the bully pulpit and all the tv is owned by the oligarchs.
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Most people in my region, where schools are still doing okay (no thanks to our anti-public educaton Governor and do-nothing Legislature), believe charters work in cities, but are not appropriate for suburban and rural areas.
I agree, though, that we need better comparisons in orderl to correcting the perception that charters uniformly “work” better than district schools in urban areas.
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This is what bothers me the most about charters:
The public school across the street belongs to me, a taxpayer, even though my children are grown. I am welcome at their PTA meetings, can attend school board meetings, and vote for school board members. If I disagree with something, I can find like-minded adults and complain at the school board meeting. If there are enough of us, our complaints will be heard.
If this school becomes a charter, my only role will be to pay for it. I have essentially given away my neighborhood school. It will be a perfect example of taxation without representation.
My guess is that any half-way educated person would not want to see his local school become a charter. Charters are for poor people, who may or may not know that they are giving away their school.
The idea of a charter school is fine, but it must NOT be supported by public tax money. Frankly I think that’s crazy and I am amazed that it is legal.
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Actually, there are great district & charters all over the country, in rural, suburban and urban communities…not just for poor people.
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We need to learn from others. In countries that have gone the charter route, the disabled, the very poor and the minorities are often relegated to the public schools. Watch the beginning of the film “To Sir with Love” where the Poitier character is told by the principal that “we get the kids no one else wants.” We don’t want that for our country.
You’re on the wrong side, Joe. Help to strengthen our public schools so that good schools are available to all. The charter concept can be realized without privatization.
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I want to amend my comment above. If a charter school is run by parents and teachers and is under the governance of an elected school board, then I see nothing wrong with it. However, under no circumstances should these schools be handed over to outside organizations who get to collect the tax money and make all the decisions regarding its use. Crazy!
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The Mom & Pop charters are being shut down under questionalbe circumstances and given to the large charter chains. It happened in Nashville where the Dept of Ed shut down a small charter school run for over 15 years by a small community church and real teachers (not TFA). Guess what took its place when the state decided to shut it down? You guessed it- a charter chain- as Mother Crusader calls these edu-Walmarts a Super CMO.
http://mothercrusader.blogspot.com/2014/05/charter-school-growth-fund-creating-new.html
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I do not support privately run charters whether they are “mom and pop” or corporate. The public schools belong to the public and that’s where they should remain. If Mom and Pop or Bill Gates want to open their own school, they are free to do so, but it must be done with their own money.
That said, if teachers and parents want to have a unique school under the auspices of the school district, and under the governance of the elected school board I see nothing wrong with that. These schools would be similar to magnets, except they’d be run by teachers. And of course they would have to be open to all and have the same teacher protections as all other schools in the district.
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Linda – So would you outlaw state schools not controlled by local school boards that are publicly funded all over the country that use admissions tests?
Would you outlaw regional schools run by representative of local districts? Those representatives are not selected by the voters. Would you outlaw those regional schools?
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Joe, I am not against any public school that preserves government “by the people.” State schools are usually schools for the special needs child and are governed by representatives of the people. As for magnet schools that require admission tests, that’s OK too, as long as citizens want it and as long as the laws are followed.
What I am against is turning over a tax-supported school to private individuals or corporations. These schools belong to the taxpayers who support them.
While we are on the subject, I have a question: My nephew wants to buy an accounting business but he does not have the money. Can he get the taxpayers to foot the bill? If so, do you know how he would apply? Thank you.
Seriously once the average taxpayer catches on to this charter scam, we will see an end to it. Just wait and see.
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Joe, I don’t mean to disparage the work that you do. Perhaps you truly believe that privatizing the schools will help minority children get a good education. Perhaps you have devoted your own money to starting and publicizing these schools because you truly believe in them.
But keep an open mind: Look at charters opening up and in many cases you will see an “entrepreneur” hoping to make a windfall from mainly poor schools (chains taking over small charters). You will see that the instruction is inappropriate and the discipline is insulting to human beings. You will likely see that most of these children are doing about as well as the children in the traditional schools and many are doing worse with little oversight; and you might find a “CEO”making $500,000 for a school with 600 kids while the teachers make $40.000. You will find frenzied cheating. Go into one of these schools with “miracle scores,” assign an open-ended essay and you will see the proof of fraud with your own eyes.
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I’ve seen this. One of our public school facilities was secretly given away to a privately-owned “non-profit” charter chain. The first thing they did was fence off the public track area, used by neighbors for exercise for years with no problems. Now there are also Gulag-type floodlights blaring at the neighborhood where none were needed before.
What once belonged to all of us now only belongs to the “non-profit” fake charter-cult, whose self-appointed CEO pays herself a quarter of a million dollars a year salary just for selling charters.
I am just watching for the backlash…
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The difference between what is offered as online learning now and what learning is all about is a scandal. Florida contracted with K12 inc. at the same time they were suing them for fraud. The utilization of technology where it supplements education, not substitutes for it, is where the real research needs to be. I have had my hands in that area. I only hope we are not blind to its possibilities and pitfalls.
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They’re pushing online like crazy in Ohio. It makes me sad. It’s so clearly intended to be a cheaper replacement for a public education.
Ohio has a “Straight A” grant competition where schools compete against each other for state funding. I assume it’s modeled after the Obama Administration program. I was looking at their grants. It’s probably 90% “blended learning”.
Honestly, the well-intentioned people who are supporting this must have spent the last 30 years asleep. I GUARANTEE this will be used to replace teachers with “aides” in poor and middle class schools. I would bet my mortgage on it.
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The public is clueless. This is not about Michigan. This blog shows us daily how the plan is working. They are doing their thing, and the public is incredulous…they can’t be taking down the schools on purpose?
But they are,and they HAVE THE MEDIA to sell their magic elixirs.
“The field of education is awash in conflicting goals, research “wars,” and profiteers” Unfortunately, distinguishing between good and bad science is not easy. evaluating whether or not a claim really is supported by good research is like buying a car. There’s an optimal solution to the problem, which is to read and digest all of the relevant research, but most of us don’t have time to execute the optimal solution” … it’s hardly news that an educational reform idea attracted serious attention despite the fact that there was no evidence supporting it.”
“Suppose you’re a doctor. You go through medical school and residency, learning the most up-to-date techniques and treatments. Then you go into family practice, and you’re an awesome doctor. But science doesn’t stand still once you’ve finished your training. You were up to date the year you graduated, but researchers keep discovering new things. how can you possibly keep up with the latest developments when, according to Pubmed.gov6-19-11 , more than 900,000 articles are published in medical journals each year?
“Suppose you’re a doctor. You go through medical school and residency, learning the most up-to-date techniques and treatments. Then you go into family practice, and you’re an awesome doctor. But science doesn’t stand still once you’ve finished your training. You were up to date the year you graduated, but researchers keep discovering new things. how can you possibly keep up with the latest developments when, according to Pubmed.gov6-19-11 , more than 900,000 articles are published in medical journals each year?
A quick summary
“Medicine has solved this problem for practitioners by publishing annual summaries of research that boil down the findings to recommendations for changes in practice.’ [i.e. evidence] ” Physicians can buy summary volumes that let them know whether there is substantial scientific evidence indicating that they ought to change their treatment of a particular condition… in other words, the profession does not expect that practitioners will keep up with the research literature themselves. That job goes to a small set of people who can devote the time needed to it.”
“In education, there are no federal or state laws protecting consumers from bad educational practices. And education researchers have never united as a field to agree on methods or curricula or practices that have sound scientific backing. That makes it very difficult for the non-expert simply to look to a panel of experts for the state of the art in education research. There are no universally acknowledged experts. Every parent, administrator, and teacher is on his or her own. “
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I respectfully disagree that the public is “clueless.” But I’m interested in what you would do to improve schools if you hold this belief.
Would you assign students to schools, since their parents are clueless (except those parents who could afford to move to affluent suburbs)?
Would you allow only those who can pass a test to vote, since “the public is clueless.” (such an approach has been tried and fortunately the country has moved away from this. But perhaps you’d like to go back to requiring at least some people to pass a test before they can vote.
Would you assign people to jobs, since they are clueless about what’s good for them?
I assume the answer to the above is “no. But perhaps no. What would you do to improve schools ad society if you are convinced that the public is clueless?
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You assume what my answer is, Joe.
That is the problem. You ask irrelevant questions, and when I don’t answer, because I know what I KNOW WOULD WORK, you assume it is because I cannot answer them.
I wonder at your age, Joe. I wonder if you ever engaged in real debates, where in no time, fallacious reasoning was identified and knocked down.
Youare certainly impressed with your smart retorts, but the issue is the billionaires boys club have purchased the legislatures, and because they also owns the media TOTALLY the public barely knows the politics in their own district , let alone in almost sixteen thousand scattered in 50 states. They do not have to divide and conquer, because the teacher, let alone the public in LA do not know what is ongoing in Michigan.
What do I think…well here it is… this link will take you to a page where I posted Diane’s blog, but at the bottom is a gathering of what is happening in a few of the 50 states…ALLOF THE LINKS TAKE YOU TO POSTS HERE which follow the destruction , state by state….in case you only read those posts which let you voice your opinion and ask questions that cannot be answered.
Go, read my commentary and (the responses that it got) at this address
http://www.opednews.com/Quicklink/Indiana–OUTRAGE-Republi-in-Best_Web_OpEds-Diane-Ravitch_Education_Outrage_Political-150130-323.html
or don’t…so you can ask ridiculous questions which are designed only so you can win the argument THAT YOU MAKE….how you underestimate some of us here.
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Since you think the public is clueless, what are you doing to help improve schools.
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golly gee… I just don’t know what might work… after all those years as the cohort for the real Standards research…DUH. I am not smart enough to answer you question.
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Schools need to be kept open, properly funded, overseen by locally elected school boards, staffed by certified teachers who can depend on collective bargaining and negotiated contracts to ensure fair working conditions and due process. Blaming teachers and public schools at this stage of the game after shoving in the testing and test prep and AYP of NCLB which is all counterproductive is unfair.
Get rid of the federal interference, allow teachers to teach classes of a reasonable size and see what education can be.
Charter chains take tax funding, pay managers well and teachers poorly, do not have elected school boards, staff their schools with TFA, do not allow unions which would guarantee contracts and fair working conditions for teachers as well as appropriate curriculum for students. Putting a child in front of a computer and paying k12, Inc. for online learning modules is not education. Ripping off taxpayers is not okay.
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Dawn, 2 questions. What are you doing to increase the likelihood that the things you describe will happen and
What state are you in where charter faculty are not allowed to form a union? If that is true, is this one of the things you are trying to change (as I’d agree that all teachers in publicly funded k-12 schools should be allowed to start and join a union).
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I am trying to get the word out that we need to stop the re-authorization of ESEA. I was part of an effort in the state of NY, where I live, to stop a charter school from opening in our town because it would have devastated our public school. I write a newspaper column on education. I keep my colleagues informed by posting legislative actions they can participate in. It is not that NY doesn’t allow unions into charter schools. It is that these schools keep a steady stream of teachers churning through their system that do not have the time to start a union and any whiff of one is highly discouraged.
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Interesting. Does your district offer any different kinds of schools within the district, ie Montessori, Core Knowledge, Multiple Intelligences, early college high school, etc. etc?
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There you go…great answer Dawn, but you know what Thomas Payne said, “To argue with a person who has renounced reason is like administering medicine to a dead man.
Moreover, a recent study explained that today, people who are wedded to their own versions of reality, jus trouble down when presented with reason that points to the truth.
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Fortunately in this democracy growing numbers of families have been given public school options. What’s also emerging is that growing numbers of educators are being given options to create the kinds of public schools that make sense to them.
These efforts are founded on hope and possibilities, not that the public is clueless.
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I just have to say one more thing…. ‘blended learning’ ?I have heard one theory or another in my four decades of teaching, and most of them in the last 15 years. None of them were based on anything more than some ‘study’ or some academic’s idea of ‘teaching’ or some businessman’s view of what would fill the shelves with profit-making texts.
I remember one fabulous teacher who was fired for insubordination because she rejected word walls, and the student centered bullcrap that did not work because ALL of her new immigrant students could not read or write in their native Chinese, and had never heard or spoke English. She wanted to use her own techniques, honed over 15 years, which produced ELA results that were undeniable (except at her hearing, where she was not allow to offer them into evidence).
This tiny Chinese lady had all her third grade kids speaking, then reading then writing English in one year, and not merely passing the ELA tests but passing well above the average.
Her methods, her practice as the professional in the room blended her own LEARNING TECHNIQUES and worked. I saw her kangaroo court,w her parents lined up outside to tell how she worked miracles for their kids… and the NYSUT attorney did not call them, but allowed the principal to have the floor, and to submit he subjective theories of education as if they were valid.
God, I am tired of the jargon, after being the cohort for genuine third level research into what must be in place for learning to occur. Why is the proven theories that came out of the Pew funded National Standards research on Learning, not ANYWHERE IN THE NARRATIVE OF WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE?
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Sadly the corporation mentality has had a long history of “advertising”, better word is hoodwinking the public. Educators have sought truth. Guess our education system HAS failed to educate the public, at least in this kind of regard.
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Re: “Charters have Better Selling Points than Public Schools”: It’s time we reminded everyone that public schools are fundamental to a democracy.
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I think conservatives are better at messaging than progressive groups. Conservatives tend to find a negative theme, and then drive it into the ground. They also own most of the media outlets as well as the advantage of money and power behind them. Progressives tend to be less organized and more ethical so the message tends to be less potent. Organized labor got a black eye by getting involved with the mob. Yet, if we look at history, many of the biggest gains for workers were made during the best time for organized labor, the 50s.
As an aside, NYSUT just rebranded itself with the motto, “Public education; it works.” Let’s hope it brings them some perceptual magic.
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We know the problems with charters. Here in Florida, the big for profit chains are making a fortune. Advisory boards are not independent. Charters increase segregation. Many fail and some serve a real need. How do we spread the word about good things states are doing that curb abuse? We did a piece on that called ‘Better to Light one Candle’. There is a list of things used by different states to better regulate charters.
This is one approach to changing the narrative the Michigan study reports. The other is to celebrate what public schools are doing that make people believe they are missing an opportunity to create something wonderful by leaving public schools.
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Public schools don’t have the mechanism in place for self promotion, although the district may have an information officer that spreads positive news in house and the local community. Charters spend lots of taxpayer dollars advertising the message that the charter schools will “cure all ills,” while appealing to most people’s sense of inner elitism.
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Chiara,
Exactly what I am concerned about. We can attack and should. But, we need the positive message. People too often think teachers’ complaints are too self serving. I do not. But, I do believe that we do not articulate what could be done if the money were concentrated on developing exciting ways to engage students and train teachers. I hope there are people ‘out there’ who can help craft this message.
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Retired Teacher,
True, but a year ago I was in discussions with district staff about this issue. The perception then was that districts should ‘keep quiet’. This is now changing. There are coalitions statewide that are considering approaches to being more proactive in the message.
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In one of the local Utah newspapers today (the one that LOVES privatization), it had an article touting “School Choice Week,” and the bringing of kids to the capital to talk about the wonderfulness of charters. Never mind that I bring my entire 8th grade at my public school down to the capitol every year, where we meet legislators and watch the legislature in action. But we don’t get in the news.
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Honestly, if we’re going to re-define “public” to mean “publicly-funded” I’d rather have vouchers.
It’s nonsense that this is “market-based”. Politicians and very wealthy people are choosing which schools to fund and promote and which schools not to fund and promote.
The federal charter funding bill specifies “high performing” and we all know how they measure that: test scores.
I think I’ll take my chances in a real market rather then this “worst of both worlds” fake one. My “choices” will be entirely constrained by whatever politicians and wealthy people think is “good” for me. Forget that. I think I end up with a “choice” between a Rocketship and a No Excuses chain in my area where the median income is 38k. I don’t want either of those. Just give me a voucher and I’ll go on my merry way.
I don’t know why I’d agree to investing in a privately-owned school system if schools are just service providers. I didn’t pay to establish the private insurance plans on the health care exchange.
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Has everyone on this blog written to Lamar Alexander to let him know that his re-authorization of ESEA is a disaster? Don’t amend it. Kill it. It is 1200 pages long. So many pages to hide dastardly deeds: the codification of the CC, annual testing, teacher evaluations tied to the test scores, merit pay, vouchers, incentives for charter school proliferation, etc. etc.
This new law will increase the voucher system and make it go national. It will basically put Title I funds in the backpack of an educationally deprived child to go to any charter, private or religious school. The new definition of Title I eligibility includes any child who can’t pass the CC tests. That’s a lot of students.
This law will encourage charter schools and private schools to skim off students and funding from neighborhood public schools, leaving them with the most difficult children to educate and less money to do it. Neighborhood schools will end up closing. It will result in lots of new charter schools under government control having to teach the CC and give standardized tests. But there will be no local control. There will be no locally elected school boards. We will have no say in how our tax dollars are spent: what will be taught, who will be hired and fired, how students will be disciplined, how much money charter operators can pay themselves. Taxation without representation.
The deadline for your public comments to be included in the senate debate is Monday, February 2. Email your message to Senator Lamar Alexander today!!!
FixingNCLB@help.senate.gov
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To Joe Nathan and others who agree with him: yes, we can all agree that there are “all sorts of districts and charter schools.” So what? How does that fact change the reality of the overall impact of corporate-driven charters in the neediest places who demonstrably are not even close to being what they’re cracked up to be by for-profit propagandists and their supporters? Are you seriously expecting people who have direct experience with corrupt charter management companies, who’ve seen a variety of b.s. charter schools from the inside, who’ve seen the sort of snow jobs that well-connected charter owners have been giving the public for years, to blithely ignore all that because there are “some good charter schools”? Seriously?
I don’t want to see a witch hunt in which all the charters are shut down. I do want to see a state-by-state reassessment of the charter systems and a weeding out of the many that are a sick joke.
Diane gets it right when she closes this blog piece with “Interesting that people liked the idea of charters…for other people’s children.” Of course, there are some cases where people like charters for their own kids. But I must put out that a lot of those cases are motivated by racism, particularly (though not exclusively) in the South. If all you have to say is, “There are all sorts of charter schools,” my guess is that you simply don’t care what anyone else’s experiences with them are, as long as they serve a useful purpose for you. That’s lovely, but not a basis for making policy.
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Michael, having listened here for a couple of years, and over the last 40 to educators, parents and students over the country, I do have a few other things to say. Here’s some it:
http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/Bridging-Differences/
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Michael, would you close down long time ineffective district schools too? If yes, I’m with you.
Do you agree with state and even national teacher unions that have taken over some affiliates because of corruption? If yes, I agree with you.
Corruption should be vigorously opposed. I just don’t see much concern about district or union corruption voice on this blog, except for LA.
Have you posted about the decades of damage that happened in Detroit, well before charters? I’d be interested in your insights about that too.
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Joe – the rare times a district school does close down, the public still owns the building and the furniture, fixtures, equipment, supplies, etc. When a charter closes down, who should own the property?
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Dienne, if the building that housed a charter was purchased with public funds, the public (ie the state) should own the building. Same answer for the items inside the building (furniture, computers, etc).
Joe
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Joe, what are you doing to make charter schools more accountable? What are you doing to make sure that closed charter schools are returned to the public rather than being sold off by the management companies? (In Michigan, the management company owns everything not the public.)
Joe, I think you confuse your philosophy with reality. You are more tolerable than other charter advocates but I get the impression that you are willing to perpetuate a flawed system because it agrees with your general philosophy.
You keep posing questions to those of us who believe that charters are not the answer its advocates proclaim. You seem very willing to accept choice in philosophy without looking at the practice. Perhaps it has to do with your personal experience.
Otherwise, I struggle to understand your POV.
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Fair question, Steve. Briefly, I’m working with people in various states to help improve charter laws.
Plus encouraging state legislators and foundations to recognize that district and charter public schools educators both have things to learn and to share. Promoting that through projects involving district & charters, and by writing about these ideas for various newspapers.
For the last month, Deborah Meier, a veteran public school teacher and leader, and I have been blogging about these issues via Education Week:
http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/Bridging-Differences/
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Joe, I checked out the link and I have to return to my original statement: Your philosophy and the reality of charters in many places (especially my state of Michigan) do not jive.
If you want to improve charters, you have to push out those who are in it for financial and ideological reasons. Your assertion that “charters good, public bad” is oversimplified is correct. But that is not the endless message asserted in editorial pages and Republican controlled statehouses across the nation. The Detroit News is an unrelenting charter cheerleader that shapes public opinion and they are an endless stream of pro-charter opinions that suggest that no charter has ever done wrong.
Seems to me your biggest issue should be what to do with all of the charters who are in education for reasons other than education. Because there are many.
Before educators like me can even be okay with charters, we have to get to the point where their practices aren’t shifty. I’m not going to go through the litany of complaints about charters but I’ve heard many of the same stories from people who sent their kids to charters, educators who taught at charters and kids who went to charters.
Until those stories shrink in number, I’ll always have a hard time seeing charters as anything but an ideological method to privatize education, generate segregation and kneecap the teachers’ union.
You promote the positives of some charters but largely fail to acknowledge the political and ideological football that charters are.
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We have more than enough racism to go around in the North.
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Charter schools appeal to and are promoted by those seeking a profitable place to invest their capital and those whose lean toward market-competition as an ideological framework. However, they would have no traction if parents in the neighborhoods where they are proliferating saw a more appealing alternative. I am not arguing that they are a solution. As I have argued elsewhere, they only work in some schools for some parents. They have a fiscally damaging effect by drawing limited funds away from public schools and a morally corrosive effect by focusing on individual rather the community-wide solutions. But, countering their growth with information about poor performance, corruption and negative impacts on the students who remain in often unsuccessful schools it not enough to turn the political tide. Neither is the argument the reason children in neighborhood schools schools are not successful is not the fault of teachers, but rather poverty and insufficient resources. It is all true, but still insufficient to build a needed movement.
We need more a appealing resonant framing for improvement.
Here are two Washington Post articles in which I have to do so:
The Strategic Campaign Needed to Save Public Education:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2014/08/20/the-strategic-campaign-public-education-supporters-need-in-nine-steps/
How to Reframe the Education Reform Debate:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2014/11/19/how-to-reframe-the-educational-reform-debate/
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Thank you for your post. Beautiful articles. You are so right. The reformer crowd has been using Edward Bernays type propaganda and hype vanquishing common sense and decency from any discussions about treatment of students and teachers never mind taxpayers. We have lost hold of a simple and just narrative. Tell a compelling story that includes empathy and shared responsibility.
“We are responsible for support. You are responsible for teaching.” That is what shared responsibility sounds like.
“We need to rebuild public support for the idea that science and engineering are powerful tools for solving our most pressing problems when combined with the values of shared responsibility and empathy.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2014/11/19/how-to-reframe-the-educational-reform-debate/
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I see the big difference between charters and public schools is redistribution of wealth. Instead of paying teachers a good salary with benefits and retirement the money is given to the administraors of the charters and the owners. One or two get rich instead of many making a decent wage.
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Joe, I need to jump in here. Minnesota has a law that limits private ownership if facilities have been purchased with state funds. Most states do not. I have a summary of all of these laws in Better to Light One Candle than to Curse the Darkness. Take a look.
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Sue, thanks for your research. I was asked what should happen to the building and furnishing if the school was closed. I answered, it should revert to the public.
Some states have asked for suggestions about what to include in their laws. This is one of the suggestions I’ve made.
As to making all schools good choices….some youngsters thrive in a Montessori schools, others in a more traditional school. Some families want Chinese immersion, others prefer Spanish immersion. These issues – differences in how children learn, differences in parent preference, are part of why families are choosing schools.
Many families are way beyond the idea of no choice.
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Of course some families want and need alternatives. Some states do a better job than others at making certain those are responsible choices. Here in Florida, we have some charters that serve legitimate needs in a cost effective way. The exploitation, however, is a serious issue that is extremely difficult to get the choice community to recognize and correct. Even the national charter school associations call for advisory boards that are independent of the management companies. They are not independent here. Some boards that are legally independent in other states are suing their management companies because they are being by passed. If we won’t recognize these problems, they are hard to fix.
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Sue, we agree that if we don’t recognize the problems, they will be hard to fix.
Seems to me that applies to district, charter and unions.
Has the LWV in Florida examined what needs to done, for example, to make sure that Miami public school teachers won’t be ripped off massively, as they were by a former union president?
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You mean back in 2003? It was $2.5 million. Bad stuff; it happens and at least is against the law. CSUSA has made d$352 million in lease and fee payments from charters paid from our tax money. It is not illegal even though charters are supposed to be nonprofit. They just create a non profit board and then contract for about 95% of the school’s budget. They have their own real estate companies. New York has fixed this problem as have a few other states. The US DOE, IRS, and SEC have ongoing investigations of 18 charter chains right now. Regulations are so lax, that these problems are invited.
Controlling excess profits is a start, but not a solution to everything that is undermining school choice. Wish we could focus on a few things and agree on solutions.
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Actually, theft from unions and school districts happens all the time, as I’ve documented here constantly. Does this bother the LWV? Or have you decided just to concentrate on the evils of chartering?
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Smile. No question the League is strongly opposed to theft where ever it occurs!! We evaluate changes in legislation.
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Good. So what changes in Florida legislation have you proposed to reduce corruption?
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Have a problem, Joe. The Chair of the House sub Committee on Education Appropriations is one of those people the US DOE is investigating. His sister and brother in law run the biggest charter chain in Florida. He has a conflict of interest charge. Hmm
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Understood. There are some politicians who have conflicts of interest. So your strategy is ….
NY Times has a strong editorial about this today, by the way.
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WE? you mean the people who chatter here about what needs to be done, or the people out there IN 15,880 districts who are trying to get things done when up against a well funded conspiracy to end education.
Nothing you or we say matters when the billionaires control the legislature and the funding.
What would make a difference would be if ALL of us, NATIONWIDE went on strike, and sued the corrupt organizations and people who are taking us down as he is
http://www.perdaily.com/2015/01/were-you-terminated-or-forced-to-retire-from-lausd-based-on-fabricated-charges.html
http://laschoolreport.com/a-turbulent-year-in-la-unified-our-top-12-stories-of-2014/
Alone. we are preaching to the choir. Together, we could break into the media and let the people know that they are losing their democracy, that teachers need to lead the way.
Lots of figures and ‘facts’ in your arguments, so lucid, but in the end it is all Too much blarney, Joe.
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And in my state, any public school is open to any family in the district, regardless of location in that district. My state’s districts are quite large–there’s only 41 in my large western state. The open enrollment is good anywhere, and sometimes parents even cross district boundaries. So why do we need charters? We have plenty of choice without them. Instead, charters just serve to segregate and duplicate services. Considering that my state spends only about $6100 per student, the duplication is a real cost concern.
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““In Michigan, charter schools run the gamut — some schools are high-performing and do better than nearby public schools, and a good number of charter schools are in the bottom 25 percent of schools in the state,”
Explains why they are good at selling these charcoals to burn up public education.
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We have two “charters” in our public school district. Both are highly regarded alternative schools staffed by veteran, dare I say union (gasp!), teachers. Both are part of the public school system and ultimately report to the elected school board. The waiting lists are very long.
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Thanks for sharing. What you describe is certainly one way to offer options to families. What would it take to expand/replicate these two schools since you report that they have long waiting lists?
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Deadline: Monday February 2, 2015 for public comments on re-authorization of ESEA
Comments will be shared with all members of the Senate HELP committee.
Senator Lamar Alexander 202 224-4944
Senator John Kline 202 225-2271
Email: Fixing NCLB@help.senate.gov
Express outrage at the proposed bill which will create more incentives for charter schools, create a national voucher system, and codify annual standardized testing which will be used to label students as failures and teachers as ineffective!
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Sen. Alexander’s bill has two options. He is proposing annual testing is reduced.
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Even if you choose option 1 which is a reduced testing schedule, the bill is 1200 pages long, filled with details to derail public education. It grants incentives to charters. It nationalizes vouchers that can be used in charter, private or religious schools. It evaluates teachers based on test scores. It purports to support “choice” which will actually leave parents and students with no choice when all is said and done. Once the charters move in big time and students start peeling off from neighborhood schools, leaving them underfunded, they may have to close. Then there will be no choice but the charter schools which is taxation without representation because they are not run by locally elected school boards.
Alexander’s bill is a turkey. It needs to be rejected, not amended. It will end public education as we know it. The country of Chile is a prime example of a complete charter school take over. It failed miserably and ended with students rioting in the streets begging for access to free public schools.
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Support for charters is there all right. Just wanted anyone who wrote to get the testing issue correctly stated.
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Sue, are you the same who wrote “An Overview of Writing Assessment?” Great little book.
I also appreciate Joe Nathan’s comments. Sometimes I think there is too much agreement on this blog and definitely too much “attack” language at times.
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Yes Chuck, I was a co-author. I enjoyed the exchange with Joe. His parting shot about my ‘lucid facts’ amounting to blarney made me laugh. It reminds me of an Irish relative who used to say “Don’t confuse me with the facts!” . He has a point, however, in that school choice is, for some, an emotional decision. I ask myself when does emotion trump consequences and vice versa?
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Sue, I’ve re-read my comments and don’t find anything I’d interpret as asserting that your “lucid facts” amounted to blarney. That was not my intent.
For what it’s worth, our Center works with and supports outstanding work by district & charters. Here’s a link to a recent column I wrote for a number of suburban & rural newspapers that congratulates both district & charter public schools for some of the things they are doing.
http://hometownsource.com/2015/01/15/joe-nathan-column-creative-heroes-help-families-save-money-expand-college-access/
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Oh Goodness, it was Susan’s comment and she ended it with your name. My apologies. On the other hand, I did enjoy the exchange. I really appreciate the link. Finding texamples of good things makes everything worth while.
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