Joanne Yatvin has been a teacher, a principal, and a superintendent in Oregon. She is a reading specialist. Here she defends the small school idea. My own view is that there is a trade-off. A large school offers a large and diverse curriculum. A small school offers intimacy and close relationships. Some students prefer small schools, others do not. I am agnostic.
An editorial published earlier this month in the New York Times heralded the success of three small, specialized high schools created by former mayor Michael Bloomberg. A multiyear study showed that disadvantaged students at those schools did better academically than those in large, traditional high schools and were more likely to enroll in college. Within a few days Diane Ravitch posted a piece on her blog written by an unnamed researcher at the NYC Department of Education who questioned the verity of those results. He claimed that the study was financed by the same organization that funded the schools and was not peer reviewed. He also thought much of the data looked suspicious.
Based on these two articles alone, a reader can’t be certain which type of school is better for students and teachers. But I am biased by my own experience teaching in both large and small schools early in my career and ending up as the principal of two small elementary schools and one small middle school. What I saw in small schools were the positive effects of what sociologists call “social capital” which means, simply, the benefits derived from being connected to other people.
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But, let me be specific. In the middle school we connected students by adopting a road alongside the school and having a whole-school cleanup day four times a year. Kids were also asked to pick up any trash they saw while walking to or from school.
We also developed an in-school “jobs” program that students could apply for. A job consisted of 20 minutes per day assisting a teacher or other school employee. Workers earned points that could be used to bid on desirable items in an end of the year auction.
Finally, all students, including special-needs kids were welcome to join any school sports team, or participate in drama or musical events.
As a result of these programs, school attendance and behavior improved markedly and bullying disappeared. What we also saw in students was a strong expression of pride and connectedness, as if they were proclaiming, “This is our school, and we don’t want anyone to mess with it.”
At one elementary school where I was principal we brought kids together through a school store that sold only student-made items and a noon hour of “Gifted” activities that anyone could participate in instead of going out to the playground. At another school we created a playground committee with representatives from all grades that developed a set of playground rules and made a video on how to use equipment safely.
Teachers benefitted in those small schools by having common planning time with others who taught the same grade. They shared their best ideas, showed newcomers the ropes, and set up consistent plans for struggling or zooming students who needed special attention.
Because there were only 12-15 classrooms in those small elementary schools I could visit them all frequently, not only to do formal observations but also to get a feel for how things were going and see the work and behavior of students I was concerned about.
I wish I could say that the small high school where I taught offered similar opportunities to students. But with 1200 students and a traditional classroom structure, it could not. Yet, the school did arrange for all teachers to teach at only one grade level and have no more than 100 students each. We got to know our students well in small classes and had time for individual conferences with each one over the school year. As an English teacher, I chose not to give any final exams because I knew enough about students’ learning from the many papers they had written and their classroom participation.
In a large city like New York I can see why it is difficult to have small schools. But with a certain amount of creativity, it is possible. How about housing two schools in one building, as has been done already with some public schools and charter schools?
In a small high school offering a specialized curriculum, such as science or the arts, all bases can be covered with fewer teachers and auxiliary personnel than in a larger all-purpose high school. At the same time, students have more in common with their schoolmates, teachers are more connected, and the principal is more involved with both groups.
Traditionally, cities, towns, and even rural areas have chosen to have large and elaborate schools rather than small, simple ones. Although, big schools may be cheaper to build and operate and easier to manage from the top down, policy makers and school officials should consider the greater ability of small schools to provide better working conditions for teachers and, more important, better learning opportunities for students.

I’ll add my obsolete 2cts from my childhood as a rural ’50’s student of a 1-rm schoolhouse (1st thro 3rd) & a 3-roomer [K-1, 2-3, 4-5] for 4th-6th. Those schools had tremendous flexibility for allowing students to proceed at their own pace, and so could accommodate the outliers well. Another benefit applies to the multi-grade setup: every lesson consisted of a teacher-directed session followed by immediate reinforcement (tackling exercises on one’s own, in pairs, or in a group led by an older student) while teacher led lesson with another age-group), plus a time for quiet desk work while teacher did 1-on-1. Behavior-mgt in classrooms was rather easy for the experienced teacher. However playground bullying was common due to large & varied outdoor space w/just 1 teacher to monitor.
The pedagogical methods used in those 2 schools was much as described for the ‘open-classroom’ ’60’s ideal, & worked very well. By comparison, I had younger siblings in a much-larger middle school during an era of ‘open-classroom’ experimentation. Though some of the important benefits were retained, concentration was tough. The teaching areas were large & open, divided by padded partitions (like Dilbert cubicles)– so there was a medium & occasionally noisy hubbub.
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I’m for small schools. They are beneficial for all students. Large schools are not for all.
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Small schools are even less “for all” because at the HS level there isn’t something for everyone! Only one or perhaps (rarely) two sections of any advanced course can be offered. Can you say “scheduling conflict”? So, it’s a sort of majority-rules situation in which the tiny minority of really hard-working, dedicated and able students cannot fit all the advanced classes into their schedules, or the enrollment in such classes is so low as to make it impractical to offer them. Wealthier parents send their kids to private schools (which about in New England.) Disabled students have opportunities mandated by law, but in some ways they, too, are under-served, in my opinion.
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How do you get rural students to small high schools with specialized curriculum without having them send half their lives on a bus? The reality is that most small high schools are rural and offer far fewer opportunities for students than do larger ones in cities and suburbs. Before spending the past 24 years teaching at such a school, I taught at two of the largest high schools in my state. Trying the schedule all that students need and deserve at a small, rural high school is sheer hell.
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This problem was thought to have been addressed by consolidating small high schools into a larger more comprehensive building with gyms, an auditorium, specialized facilities for teaching sciences and the arts. The transportation problem was not solved, but the social world of students expanded along with their opportunities for studies. Now of course, the prevailing though is that on-line learning can do the job of providing curriculum options and other supports.
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Our district used to be 3-town, now is only two. Inequities abound because we rarely have over 400 kids grades 9-12. At least we did consolidate elementary schools a few years ago.
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The median high school in my state has 250 students. These small schools often cover the county, so online classes or boarding schools seem to be the best alternatives.
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My son attended a small high school–it was four small schools within one large one, in Los Angeles. This is an innovative (and non-charter) model. My son absolutely benefitted, and so did I. His teachers were vastly more communicative than they were at larger schools, and I had a relationship with the Principal, which was fantastic. The kids felt a bond with each other, felt cared for, and they did not bully each other. I love this model and highly, highly recommend it.
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I congratulate you and your school. There is more than one way to create a small community within a large building. And there are lots of benefits for students–social, academic, and creative.
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thanks for sharing. There are many such examples.
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I would advocated going to an urban school district, too. Alas, many of us are in rural ones. Your “large one” doesn’t exist for us.
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Based on your opening paragraph, are you not suggesting that school choice is good for kids because they are different and require different learning environments? I have always viewed you as a staunch opponent to educational choice.
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Greg, if you are addressing me, I am not a fan of school choice. Not all posts are expressions of my views. Only those signed by me.
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I was under the assumption that the italicized writing is Joanne Yatvin’s and the first paragraph was written by you, Diane. Is this not the case? If so, my original point stands regarding your agnosticism to student preferences (choices).
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Thanks for this clear, explicit statement.
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The problem is, there is no real choice for rural HS students unless their parents are quite wealthy.
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If state’s allowed parents to access their child(ren)’s public school dollars through ESAs, those choices wouldn’t be as limited. Wealthy parents definitely have options but the same options can be presented to parents of lesser income if state government simply enabled the funding to follow the child. Michigan, my state, does not allow this and lawmakers here like to continue the opportunity gap.
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I’m not so sure about that, Greg, because students would have to board at schools — a very, very expensive proposition. Average spending per pupil (and it varies hugely from district to district) in NH is nowhere near cost of a private boarding school. Parochial schools cannot receive state tax money in NH (under our State Constitution), and I have to say I agree with that.
I also realize I have very little in the way of practical advice to solve this problem. And its a problem I have been semi-obsessed with since 1975, when I was in grade 9!
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That’s actually part of the rub. I just read Deb Meier’s book THE POWER OF THEIR IDEAS. Choice, within the public system, was supposed to be a big part of the small school movement – parents and students would have a wide range of different types of schools to choose from. But I don’t think that choice has quite worked out the way Meier envisioned. Now, at least in New York and many other big cities, “choice” has meant that parents don’t have the one choice they really want – a neighborhood public school. Kids are spending hours commuting all over the city.
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A variety of families want different choices. Some prefer a neighborhood school. Some want their children to attend school with primarily students who like themselves, are wealthy (think affluent suburbs). Some seek out schools that are based on the Montessori approach. Some want their youngsters in a school that is bi-lingual.
Our host has made it clear, (above) she she is not a fan of school choice.
Fortunately many cities and states have seen the value of offering public school options to low and moderate income families. Wealthy people have had them for many years.
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Although I think you are asking Diane, not me, I will answer, too. I do not approve of school choice because it removes students from their communities and makes school harder and more impersonal for them. Unfortunately, many parents choose a school for the wrong reasons, seeking elitism and ethnic unity without considering whether or not the school is a good place for their child to learn and be part of a healthy social environment.
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Elitism? Choosing the school for your child to attend is elitist, but you dictating where all children should isn’t? I think you are making a lot of elitist assumptions about parents and how they choose schools. The idea that they can’t determine a good place for their child to learn and be part of a healthy social environment is ludicrous. Parents of all backgrounds and income levels have already proven you wrong.
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Reblogged this on David R. Taylor-Thoughts on Texas Education.
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I have mixed feelings about this discussion mainly because I don’t think there is one ideal environment. In a sense it is a little bit like shopping in the local market where everyone knows you and will go out of their way to help you find what you need. Then there is the megamart that has 10 times more than you ever knew you needed. Who needs 100 different kinds of cereal? (I have a feeling am understating that number.) I just erased a large portion of my response as I went off on a tangent about the shortcomings of supersized markets. Just as navigating these stores can be intimidating, supersized schools can be overwhelming as well. And just as there is comfort in the familiar, there can also be a feeling of limitation or stagnation. What direction we take in public education requires an open dialogue among folks who are not driven by schemes to enrich themselves but by an honest desire to provide an equitable and free public education system for everyone’s children.
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2old,
You might be interested in this TED talk by Barry Schwartz. He shares you view on choice. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VO6XEQIsCoM
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Thank you. I did find it interesting. I wonder if growing up in an era where we didn’t have infinite choices has colored my reaction. I did find his explanation for why he assigns less work rather weak. Those students are not sitting there worrying about whether they should marry and when. They are sitting there distracting themselves with social media and the internet. They have more choices and freedom to do what they want and they choose tweeting over paying attention in class or doing the work. (I would have accepted an explanation that said they had to work more hours to pay for school, but that doesn’t fit the lecture.) However, I do find making choices more difficult especially in novel situations or in situations that occur infrequently, such as buying a car.
The talk also explained my negative reaction to people who act like they are entitled to special treatment, especially in the affluent area where I live. People can be quite obnoxious with over the top expectations and demands.
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Extraordinarily well-put, 2old2teach. I have to admit, I believe high schools should be in the business of giving students a solid, traditional, liberal arts education through great books, not teaching them to do a particular job. If we all agreed on that, and if all families and students valued such an education, I think even small high schools could do a good job. Alas, the idea of what education in this country is supposed to be has become completely perverted in my lifetime.
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Pculliton
Which great book would be used to teach mathematics?
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I think I would leave that up to a math teacher…Why?
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pculliton,
I did run across this from The Chronicle (//chronicle.com/blognetwork/castingoutnines/2008/04/23/what-are-the-great-books-of-mathematics/). Past it in your browser if you like, I want to avoid having more than one active link in the post.
It lists the great books used at St. John. Here is a partial listing:
Euclid’s Elements
Descartes’ Geometry and Discourse on Method,
Pascal’s Conic Sections
Newton’s Principia Mathematica
Dedekind’s Essay on the Theory of Numbers (here is a copy of the essay: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/21016/21016-pdf.pdf)
This seems to me to be very different from what is usually done in mathematics classes in high school. On the other hand, the great books that are currently read in ELA classes are the great works in English.
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TE, allow for a little nostalgia and don’t be so literal minded. I think PC’s comment speaks to that sense of what we have lost and where her interests are probably focused. I don’t think you have to enter attack mode.
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2old,
I think misplaced nostalgia is one of the forces leading the discussion on the blog astray.
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Yes, I have read that list, teachingeconomist! And I sure hope no one here thinks my bringing up my own HS days was misplaced nostalgia. I am definitely not nostalgic about spending the first year-and-a-half of my high school career in a small, rural school. The inequities I saw were what led me to teaching, but I’m not pining away for those days one bit. (I got out of that school because my town had no HS and thus they would tuition us to various schools… loonngg story.)
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I didn’t see any mention of your high school days, nor did I think you were referring to them. I rather thought you were probably reacting to CCSS lack of attention to literature with a misplaced focus on skills at the expense of content. My use of the term nostalgia was probably not the best way to characterize what I was trying to convey to TE.
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2old2teach — Actually, the CCSS contain more on literature than the old NH standards ever did– I always refer to those as “content-free.”
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Reblogged this on Network Schools – Wayne Gersen and commented:
I did some consulting in VT for the past two years where legislation was passed to promote school consolidation and worked with a consortium of small districts in Northern NH on ways to collaborate. The bottom line in New England is that small towns want to retain their local schools even if they are economically inefficient and their local elected school board members are not necessarily interested in regional purchasing if it means that local businesses might suffer. I find the sentiment to retain of local schools parallels the desire to retain local post offices. Schools and post offices define the communities and if either disappear the sense of community disappears. These small towns have seen how Dollar Stores, convenience store chains, and Walmarts have undercut local businesses and they want to hold on to their last community institutions at all costs. It’s clear to me that given the choice between a “large and diverse” set of offerings or “intimacy and close relationships” local boards in NE rural communities will pay a premium to keep local schools no matter their size.
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Well, that’s depressing. True, but depressing nonetheless.
Oh, and one of the towns in my 2-town district refused to let a dollar store build on the site of the old elementary school after we built a new one (yay!) — so the school building sits there and becomes a town liability, and students without money and transportation continue to be without materials as well (boo!). There is not “local business” for a dollar store to undercut.
Penny Culliton, Temple, NH (Teacher in Mascenic District)
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No general stores around? I am familiar with northeastern Vermont, not a entrepreneur’s paradise, but they seem to be peppered with general stores. Big purchases may require a trip to Burlington if Montpelier or St. Johnsbury doesn’t cut it. Shopping districts are few and far between and people generally seem to want the big box operations to stay in “urban” areas which are noticeably missing in Vermont. They are not opposed to the convenience and price advantages, but they are opposed to the death of those little local havens. You live in a beautiful area of the country. I guess we decide what we value most or accept the status quo (which isn’t necessarily bad). I have quite a bit of family in your neck of the woods who have chosen to put their roots down in more rural climates. I head that direction to decompress. 🙂
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I’m not in Northeastern VT; I’m in southwest NH. Things are very different in Peterborough, only a 30 minutes (at most) away. But if you’re a teen with parents unwilling to drive you, it might as well be 3 hours away.
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I know. I looked at a map and some pictures. Temple seems to be a fairly rural area. Teens in the northeast corner of VT, actually most of VT, have the same problems.
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I teach in New Ipswich, and the other town in our district is Greenville.
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