Jersey jazzman has another great piece about tenure. He writes: “I can only hope that Campbell Brown’s appearance last night on The Colbert Report is typical of what she is going to bring to the debate over school workplace protections. Because if this is the best the anti-tenure side can muster, we teachers will easily win the debate — provided we ever get a chance to participate.” –
Watch the priceless video of Stephen Colbert interviewing Campbell Brown, who is leading a campaign to eliminate teacher tenure in New York. Colbert asks her to reveal her donors. She replies that she won’t do that because the few dozen protestors outside with hand-lettered signs might harass them. She says the protesters are trying to silence her, but of course she is on national television and they are not. She doesn’t look silenced.
JJ writes:
“It’s all about the kids.” As I’ve said before, that is a ridiculous argument against tenure on two levels:
1) Tenure isn’t just good for teachers; it’s good for parents, taxpayers, and students. Tenure allows teachers to be whistleblowers and advocates for children when doing the right thing may be unpopular with school boards and parents. As Colbert pointed out, it allows teachers academic freedom in a time when powerful interests want to teach our children junk science, revisionist history, and prejudiced attitudes.
2) Just because something is good for teachers doesn’t mean it is automatically bad for students. Yes, tenure makes it harder to fire teachers; that’s the point. But no one has ever shown granting tenure impedes a teacher’s effectiveness or makes the teaching corps as a whole less effective.
As I’ve pointed out time and again, tenure has a real economic value for teachers, yet costs taxpayers very little. If you can’t show tenure harms children — and no, the Vergara decision did not show this, which is why it will almost certainly be overturned on appeal — why wouldn’t taxpayers grant it to both protect their interests and minimize the budgetary impact of teacher compensation? Getting rid of tenure is a terrible economic decision for taxpayers.
The idea that anything good for teachers must be bad for students is one of the most pernicious arguments to come from the reformy camp. It’s nothing more than an illogical appeal to emotion, and it tacitly casts teachers as villains when they dare to stand up for themselves. It needs to stop.
– Colbert very wisely makes the connection to school funding (he doesn’t understand how school funding weighting works, but give the man some slack), arguing that a civil rights stance on tenure must logically also support making sure all students have adequate resources. As Bruce Baker has pointed out many times, New York is one of the worst states in the nation when it comes to school funding fairness; states like New Jersey which (until lately) have equity as a goal do much better overall in student achievement.
And here are the questions by JJ that show what utter nonsense Campbell Brown’s campaign is:
“Campbell, a few miles away from New York City are some of the wealthiest and highest-performing school districts in the United States, if not the world. All of these districts have unionized teachers, step-guide contracts, tenure protections, and seniority. If tenure is the cause of bad teaching in poor districts, why do wealthy districts with tenure do so well?
“And if you really believe that the teachers in poor areas are not as good as those in wealthy areas, how will getting rid of job protections help bring in better teacher candidates? Why would anyone want to teach in a city district, subject to far more political interference, when they can decamp for the leafy ‘burbs and avoid that nonsense?”
Diane Ravitch's blog 
It would be nice if New York teachers could use this to turn out the teacher vote against Cuomo. That would send quite the message.
Democrats absolutely should get out on September 9th, and vote for Teachout in the New York primary. Teachers and parents should send a clear message to Cuomo, that their voices are many.
Good questions by JJ, but I am wondering, were these questions asked by the defense in the Vergara case, and if not, did the union drop the ball? The answers to these questions are obvious and self-evident, so how did that court rule the way it did?
I am not so confident Vergara will be overruled. The conservative judges are driven by ideology, not facts and law (see Hobby Lobby) and are not bound by precedent. Colbert is not the 5th vote on the Supreme Court. It’s Campbell Brown’s friend, Alito. Notice the news from Wisconsin where the conservative court upheld Walker’s denial of collective bargaining for teachers and their ruling upholding the state law requiring voter ID. Not good.
GST,
I share your lack of optimism.
I agree with many of his points. It surprises me that people don’t bring up the fact that many Southern states already don’t have bargaining rights, active unions or tenure and they are rated as the lowest achieving schools in the US. If it was so good for the students, you would think that would show up in their test scores.
She seems to be the mouthpiece for whoever is backing her but in that case mum’s the word.
I am now hearing that Colbert has no love for tenure. Yet I think he brought out the BS in Campbell. Wish people, especially the media, would understand the meaning of due process.
Since tenure in K12 differs so much from tenure in higher ed, it should not even be called tenure in K12. Unions should stop using this misnomer and always say due process rights instead of tenure, so the public and courts are not confused.
Additionally, CB was wrong when she claimed that everyone has due process rights. She needs to learn a thing or two about employee terminations in at-will states. This government document is dated, but it still gives a good idea about at-will employment in different states: http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2001/01/art1full.pdf
call it a continuing contract…. remind people that its awarded to teachers after fulfilling a satisfactory probationary period where they only get yearly contracts…
@schoolgirl.. I suggest watching the interview directly. I finally did. Colbert skewers her and she does not even know it. Yet he does play it a bit too safe by not interjecting some brief explanations while using his wry irony so his digs go under the radar for many. Like at the end where he paused “eternally” before he said… “I respect you” in signing off with the interview. Colbert allowed Campbell Brown to skewer herself without his intervention. She admits to plants in the audience, to not divulging PACS that support her and along with many other points… and Colbert leads her there indirectly.
Oh.. forgot to add the Colbert link:
http://thecolbertreport.cc.com/full-episodes/0salbz/july-31–2014—campbell-brown
The interview was “Priceless.”
Colbert was spot on.
YES, there really IS no such thing as due process in Right to Work states. My husband, who was teaching at a charter school at the time, discovered a student had been accessing pornography on school computers. My husband had had the student in class for three weeks, but as he investigated, he discovered that the student had been accessing the porn for nearly six months. My husband reported the student. Within two days, my husband was fired. There was no hearing and no ability for my husband to appeal. A week or so before he was fired, it was mentioned in a staff meeting that the school had “too many teachers.” I think that he was fired because the school needed to get rid of a teacher and didn’t want to pay unemployment. No due process EVER occurred in my husband’s situation. None of the state or federal agencies who deal with unfair terminations would even look at my husband’s situation.
Without due process protections (or tenure, if you will), teachers in Right to Work states are sitting ducks. We could be fired anytime, for no reason. I’m really worried that the legislators in Utah will take up getting rid of due process rights for teachers in the next session. The first thing that districts will do is get rid of all expensive teachers.
I think Colbert did a good job of calling BS on this whole thing. If he really had no love for tenure or unions at all, he would not have made the crack about the ’93 Honda Civics.
The Obama Administration must be thrilled. A high-profile media/DC person pushing their anti-labor message. Expect a full schedule on every cable tv show. The laziness and venality and mediocrity of front-line public employees is a constant subject of discussion among America’s pundits and media personalities.
This is really bipartisanship at it’s best, don’t you think? When powerful people in government and media, both Republicans and Democrats, join together to attack middle class public employees and labor unions.
Keep speaking truth to power, millionaires! The extraordinary bravery it must take for really wealthy and powerful people to go after 2nd grade teachers is just an inspiration for all of out here in the cheap seats, let me tell you.
Remember when media used to go after people who had some actual power?
Jazzman’s take was a fantastic post. The problem is Brown would never debate an adroit opponent of her views. She’ll be allowed to go on main stream media programs and pretty much propagandize this crap.
It reminds me of Michelle Rhee refusing to debate Ms. Ravitch. Reformers are cowardly and rely on the powerfully rich to prop them up.
I know we’re talking ed reform so this might be a stupid question, but how does Campbell Brown see this as resolved? What’s the goal here?
Are labor unions and the public supposed to adopt this unelected media personality’s directives on due process for teachers? Will there be some kind of meeting with Brown’s new organization and public employees where she hashes out a union contract?
This is just a hypothetical. I know the goal here is to end public employee labor unions. If it weren’t, if this were a good faith effort, what would be the possible action or result she would find acceptable? 3 years before tenure, 10 years before tenure, no tenure ever?
What is the OSTENSIBLE good faith objective she seeks, let alone anything real?
Campbell Brown is a has been. I wondered for years where she had gone. She is willing to do the wrong thing in order to jump start her career again. I used to like Campbell Brown. I’ve lost all respect for her. She has sold her soul to the devil, as far as I’m concerned. If she was a competent news person, she would be in the running for shows like “The Kelly File” and etc. Campbell Brown is in no way able to compete with current news people like Megan Kelly, Hannity, and etc. so she has resorted to getting media coverage by going after pitiful, low paying teachers, like myself, who spends money on classroom supplies so my students can have more. If there was goodness to Campbell Brown, she would be using her media time to fight the takeover of drugs which is destroying the homes of our children all over the United States. She makes me sick.
For the last thirty years, powerful people divided our communities by setting middle class workers against people who were worse off.
That’s gotten stale, and besides, it isn’t very “progressive”. Now they’ve switched it up a bit. They now set people who are worse off against middle class workers.
You’ll notice who is completely blameless and without any responsibility at all in both these scenarios: people who actually have some power.
Nailed it.
“Tenure Your Resignation, VAMit”
The very best case for tenure
Is Gates and Duncan crowd
With fear of lost provender
The teachers would be cowed
Mercedes Schneider just posted an in-depth expose of fellow Louisianan Campbell Brown’s background, connections and motivations.
A MUST-READ:
Yes, this is a must read. Nice to know that Campbell was able to land on her feet despite her dprived beginnings. She truly is the right person to be advocating for poor folks. One lesson to be learned is that all children should be guaranteed the right to have at least one parent holding high state office.
Your posted link is one of the most valuable yet. The Herschel School on the Upper West Side, which is referenced in Mercedes Schneider’s expose, charges tuition ranging from $26,000.+ (Kindergarten) to High School ($46,000+). Campbell Brown’s arrogance in attempting to undermine the due process rights of public school teachers is matched only by her abysmal lack of knowledge of the process of teaching and learning. I applaud the bloggers on Diane’s site who continue to reveal the absurdity of championing unaccountable and ill-staffed charter schools.
The fact that she sends her children to an expensive, elite, Dewey-approved private school is a reverse smoking gun.
None of these elite private schools have unionized teachers or tenure. All of these schools have a sizable number (usually 15-25%) of younger teachers who have only a bachelor’s degree and have no teaching credential or formal training in education.
These conditions are universal among the high-end private schools and, along with their extremely selective admissions, are central to their operations.
Oh, and South Bronx Teacher just posted this about Campbell Brown’s appearance on the Colbert show:
http://www.southbronxschool.com/2014/08/campbell-brown-exposed-by-stephen.html
Here’s two more folks weighing in.
From Curmudgucation:
http://curmudgucation.blogspot.com/2014/08/pushback-from-little-people.html
A great snippet from Curmudgucation: (parentheticals mine, JACK)
“One (possibility) is that (corporate reformers) feel their victory is assured, but they are leery of sacrificing the fiction of democracy. They don’t really want to have to come out and say, “Okay, we’re not playing any more. We didn’t want to have to say this, but in our current system you (teachers and parents) have no say, and we’re just going to do what we want. We were hoping the illusion of democracy would keep you quiet, but play time is over. This isn’t a democracy any more, and what we say goes.”
“The other is that they know democracy is NOT dead, and given enough noise and political pressure, politicians will have to listen not just to the money, but to some people as well. If people decide to actually pick up democracy and use it like a pointy stick aimed at overinflated balloons, something’s going to pop. If enough people start talking about the emperor’s new clothes, the whole court is going to get caught parading naked, embarrassed, out of power, and finally having to face what they really look like.”
———————————-
And here’s Mother Crusader’s take, with background information Campbell Brown’s STUDENTS FIRST husband Dan Senor, and his ally and backer, Paul Singer… and pictures from a gala for Eva Moskowitz’ SUCCESS ACADEMY, including those of/with Brown and her likely backers….. this is another MUST READ:
http://mothercrusader.blogspot.com/2014/08/campbell-browns-ties-to-billionaire.html
Here’s another great article about the people in Browns “Parents for Educational Justice”, the group backing the lawsuit:
http://mothercrusader.blogspot.com/2014/07/the-reformy-heavyweights-behind-new.html
Here’s a great snippet:
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
“While a look at Pirozzolo is certainly somewhat entertaining, the place you really have to look to understand how the Vergara case spread to New York so quickly is at Campbell Brown and her “newly launched” 501c3, Partners for Educational Justice.
“It is so new that there are no 990s or other documents yet available to check the group’s funding sources. However, one need not look much further than Partners for Educational Justice’s Board of Directors and Advisory Board to get an idea of where the money may come from.
“None other than Joe Williams, Democrats for Education Reform (DFER) Executive Director, is on the Board of Directors. Yeah, the very same DFER that tried to trample Ras Baraka’s campaign for Mayor by throwing well over 2 million dollars into Shavar Jeffries campaign through Super PAC Newark First. I don’t feel like I’m going out on a limb by saying it seems pretty likely that DFER will be throwing some cash behind Brown’s lawsuit.
“As an aside, Campbell Brown was right there beside DFER in the Newark mayor’s race, and personally chipped in $7,800 for Shavar Jeffries. When I found her name in the ELEC filings I did a bit of digging to see if, and if so how, she was connected to the world of ed reform, and that was when I learned her husband, Dan Senor, is on the Board of Directors of Student’s First NY (and was an advisor to Mitt Romney).
Seems Brown and Senor share a passion for trampling teachers’ due process rights and seniority protections.
“How quaint.”
” … ”
Mother Crusader even takes on Brown’s claims — made on the Colbert show — that her group is not costing anyone that much money, as the lawyers are working “pro bono”:
– – – – – – – – – – – – – —
“And while Brown claims the New York suit won’t be as costly because they are getting the legal work pro bono ( from ‘a former deputy assistant for domestic policy to President George W. Bush’ no less), it can’t be cheap to hire a PR firm run by former aides to President Obama!
“The Incite Agency, founded by former White House press secretary Robert Gibbs and former Obama campaign spokesman Ben LaBolt, will lead a national public relations drive to support a series of lawsuits aimed at challenging tenure, seniority and other job protections that teachers unions have defended ferociously. LaBolt and another former Obama aide, Jon Jones — the first digital strategist of the 2008 campaign — will take the lead in the public relations initiative.
“There you have it folks.
“The New York Vergara case brings heavy weights from DFER, NYCAN, StudentsFirstNY, together with top level former Obama staffers, and even a former Bush lawyer, to see if they can pull the wool over the eyes of a judge in New York like David Welch and his somewhat similar cast of characters did in California.
“Quite honestly, I don’t think they can replicate what happened on the West Coast. It’s hard to imagine this case won’t be seen as the dog and pony Public Relations show it truly is. Especially when Brown is saying as much in the press before the trial has even started.
” CAMPBELL BROWN: ‘The PR piece of this is essential because for the first time, we’re having a dialogue in this country about anachronistic laws and how we revamp our public education system for the modern world so it serves children first and foremost, Having that conversation is as important to me as the litigation itself.’
“While I give props to Brown for having the vocabulary skills to call the laws she aims to change ‘anachronistic’ instead of ‘bad,’ a la Pirozzolo, it still seems ill-advised to head into a lawsuit talking about how ‘essential’ PR will be to your case.”
‘The PR piece of this is essential because for the first time, we’re having a dialogue in this country about anachronistic laws “– Campbell Brown
“Anachronism”
Tenure’s anachronistic
Encourages lawlessness
Makes folks go ballistic
When all we want is bliss
I screwed up the link to the interview in the above comment.
Here’s the link to watch the interview:
http://jerseyjazzman.blogspot.com/2014/08/campbell-brown-lame.html
Watching the interview again, I just caught something telling. In the middle of the interview, Brown makes a quite damning contradiction. I call attention to her use of the pronouns “we” and “our”.
Watch the interview again at, paying attention to the following:
http://jerseyjazzman.blogspot.com/2014/08/campbell-brown lame.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+JerseyJazzman+(Jersey+Jazzman)#sthash.spnqBOB2.dpuf
Pay attention to these two snippets:
(NOTE: CAPITALS for “WE” in the first, and for “OUR” in the second clip, … are mine, JACK)
—————————————————————————————-
00:55 – 01:05
CAMPBELL BROWN: “First, let me just correct something you said. WE (Parents for Educational Justice) are not filing this lawsuit. Seven parents who have kids in public schools in New York state are bringing this lawsuit.”
—————————————————————————————-
Now, here come Brown’s slip-up
—————————————————————————————-
03:47 – 03:52
CAMPBELL BROWN: “Can I just mention some of OUR plaintiffs are out here tonight, too (she gestures to the audience). They’re very happy to be here.”
—————————————————————————————-
Whoa, whoa, whoa… hold on here, Campbell. Three minutes ago, you said that “we”— your group “Parents for Educational Justice”— were not filing the lawsuit, as in that it’s not “our” lawsuit, it’s the plaintiff parents’ lawsuit, and that you’re just giving them a little help. Suddenly, you’re referring to those same plaintiff parents as “our plaintiffs.”
Woopsie-daisy!
Again, notice Brown doesn’t say “the” plaintiffs, as in “the plaintiffs to whom our group is lending support.” She says, “our.” If only Colbert had been quick enough to catch her on that.
Campbell Brown was hoping for a heart-warming, Oprah-show-like cut-away to those minority children plaintiffs sitting in the audience.
No such luck.
However, her attempt to effect that cut-away backfired on Brown as she let loose with the slip-up just described.
I screwed up the link to the interview in the above comment.
Here’s the link to watch the interview:
http://jerseyjazzman.blogspot.com/2014/08/campbell-brown-lame.html
On his blog, South Bronx Teacher offers the follow-up questions that Colbert could have asked Brown when she said it was the parents’ lawsuit, not her group’s lawsuit:
——————————————-
“Are the parents being paid or reimbursed any expenses incurred while in the midst of this lawsuit?
“Are food and hotels and travel being reimbursed by the law firm, Campbell Brown, or PEJ? These questions are important.
“Did these parents seek out PEJ on their own, or were they sought out?
“If they were sought out how many have volunteered and/or have been employed by Students First? We do know that the lead plaintiff, Keoni Wright was employed by SF at one time.
“Campbell even shares that the law firm, Kirkland Ellis, is representing the parents pro bono, but how did these parents know to seek out this particular law firm?
“But as I am watching this I am wondering to myself, why is Campbell the one being interviewed?
“Why not the parents from Rochester who “handled” themselves so well with Glen Beck? (NOTE: they didn’t come off very well… you can watch this here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJZDrpwi8TQ )
“In fact how did two families from Rochester know to seek out the above NYC law firm?
“(Union agitators) are trying to silence debate? How many people has Campbell blocked (#blockedbycampbellbrown )on Twitter? Blocked from multiple Facebook pages?
“But if the parents should have a role in this debate, and no one is denying that, then why then is Campbell the face and voice of the parents?
“Why not let the parents speak freely?”
————————
Again, here’s the link to South Bronx Teacher’s blog:
http://www.southbronxschool.com/2014/08/campbell-brown-exposed-by-stephen.html
when powerful interests want to teach our children junk science, revisionist history, and prejudiced attitudes….
Add the KOCH curriculum on economic theory for high school purchased for use in a couple of states with payments to folks who will teach it–complete curriculum with powerpoints and funds for students to use for college or to start their own business. dianeravitch.net/…/huffpost-how-the-koch-brothers-are-bringing-their-id…
0. Cached
This has always been an attack on labor unions. Campbell Brown started her crusade against teachers while she was working at CNN and one can safely assume that she had labor protections from belonging to a union herself at the time, as with FoxNews pundits and other media employees who don’t disclose their own union memberships while railing against the labor unions of other workers. That is very much like the “Won’t Back Down” campaign which involved people who belong to labor unions (actors and those involved in different movie production roles) chastising other union workers (teachers).
This is also a lot like when totalitarians get the people they have marginalized to condemn and attack their own people. The pay off is supposed to be that they will be treated better themselves and survive, though that’s not how it typically plays out when authoritarians have the power to call all the shots. Brown, her husband et al. had better hang on to their ill-gotten gains, because if their side wins, they will soon be considered disposable as well.
So, “If Labor Dies, What’s Next?”
http://prospect.org/article/if-labor-dies-whats-next
Extremely Well Said! The last laugh will be on Campbell Brown and her ill gotten gains. It’s sad
that she has to resort to these measures to get press. Good reporters are busy trying to get real news, not promoting toxic issues which are out to truly hurt people. Shame on her. I think her career is truly over though. People have her number. They know what she is up to.
Ok, so I know what I am about to write will not be popular at all…but I would love a perspective. As a teacher in DC for years, I was a member of the Teacher’s Union. While I see the value of unions and protecting employees, I also saw numerous times really poor teachers being protected. I saw a system where poor teachers, instead of being asked to leave, were “involuntary transferred” from one place to another…
Let me provide just one small example. One year I taught a teacher was repeatedly absent from school (missed multiple days)….as department chair, I often had to fill in as a sub, search for subs, etc…She ended up taking a leave of absence, then came back for ONE DAY, and then left again…She was protected by the union to do so. Her students essentially had no teacher the entire year…
I have not read things carefully, but I really think that Brown’s position (as well as the Vergara case) is that in some cases unions protected poor teachers. Should this lead to the elimination of unions and the ability of principals or districts to terminate someone whenever they feel like it? No, there should be due process…but I just wonder (and I have seen it happen in the schools that I have taught in), what happens when poor teachers are allowed to hide behind unions?
Hi jlsteach:
Have you ever realized that within your body, there is a lot of bad and good bacteria in your intestine and stomach?
Would you deprive yourself the livelihood of eating because a few of bad bacteria makes your breath and diarrhea smelly? Or would you research for alternative food and drink to have better breath and bowel movement?
Similarly, you can search for better school and environment so that you do not face to the particular situation in your example. You should not be ignorant enough to cut off the best democratic system if you are truly an educator. Your turn will come if you go to the communist country where its leader can treat you like a piece of dirt.
You are the educator and live in the most civilized country where you do not know how to treasure and protect your civil rights, but you horribly and intentionally destroy your and educators precious dignity through support business barbarous agenda without conscience.
Please, it is time to wake up to smell your coffee, and re-read Charles Dickens literature. Back2basic
Back2Basic – In terms of the digestion issue, sure I realize that all the time – thanks for the biology reminder.
“Similarly, you can search for better school and environment so that you do not face to the particular situation in your example” So, it’s that easy? Just leave for another school and another environment. And let the school system where I came from, and all of the kids that were in it, suffer with bad teachers? Is that really the answer? Is that what you or others think is the solution – flee to suburbia?
And one other thing…why is is when ANYONE dares to even raise a question that you and similarly others on this site chose to simply attack someone with drastic language: I NEVER said that I would go so far as to eliminate tenure. I simply raised a question. And yet, I am accused of wanting to “cut off the best democratic system if you are truly an educator. Your turn will come if you go to the communist country where its leader can treat you like a piece of dirt” and that I “horribly and intentionally destroy your and educators precious dignity through support business barbarous agenda without conscience.
Speaking of living in a democratic system, shouldn’t all voices really be able to be heard? Or is this site only one where, like the State of the Union (or worse the communist countries you mention) that one person makes a statement and everyone else cheers? Where is the opportunity for dialogue??
jlsteach – I am glad that you go through point by point. However, tenure track and due process has been the utmost important democratic process in education system. You cannot take an excuse of very few “modern mindset” teachers in order to destroy the dignity of the teaching profession.
Communists cannot help bringing up its citizens’ equal prestigious life in terms of better education and comfortable material lifestyle. As a result, communists make majority of its citizens becoming equally poor and suffering.
If you cannot leave your district, then you should actively advocate and support teachers’ rights to strengthen their tenure track and due process. Most of all, you should know your rights, tax payer’s rights, and students’ rights in order to demand local Board of Education to legally provide you and your students with a better condition in classroom.
We cannot deprive ourselves the likelihood of eating because society offers us the wrong food. In the same token, we cannot deprive our children the likelihood of learning because certain district imposes on us the wrong education. In other words, we, educators need to protect our rights to have tenure track and due process before we educate and cultivate students (=future workforce) their awareness of civil rights in our democratic society.
In conclusion, as you mention that we live in a democratic country, we all have equal rights to voice our opinion. However, I just repeat the idea from former Australian Prime Minister that we did not ask you to join our platform (= absolutely strengthen tenure track and due process), as a result, we welcome you to leave this platform if you do not agree with our will.
To all people who live in this North America, wish to be with communists, please go to china or North Korea to taste what life is like without humanity. Yes, it would be the same as to live with capitalism without tenure track and due process.
Please, American educators do not let the world down; do not submit your dignity to barbarous tycoons; and please unite to fight for your rights, children’s future, and our own legend of civil rights movement. Back2basic
“To all people who live in this North America, wish to be with communists, please go to china or North Korea to taste what life is like without humanity. Yes, it would be the same as to live with capitalism without tenure track and due process.”
Granted, I’ve never been to China or North Korea, but I have been to just about every single one of the right-to-work states, and they didn’t strike me as being all that much different from states with teacher’s unions.
There is a lot of due process and protection baked into Federal and state employment, equal opportunity, and anti-discrimation laws that didn’t exist when tenure was invented.
Of course in the Veregara case, one teacher they accused of being grossly incompetent was also named Teacher of the Year in the same year. So there should be a process in place to help teachers improve and if that does not work, you follow due process and remove the teacher. But the Veregara case was about removing due process. So your principal decides that you are ineffective and you are gone. Is that really the way you think things should work?
English Teacher in California – you have a really good point about the due process. And that I agree with….of course “due process” can be manipulated in multiple ways…In DC, where principal observations are a part of their teacher evaluation (as they should be) I have in some cases seen principals chose to observe certain teachers on the day before holiday break, on the day before spring break (which, traditionally, are not just normal days)…The same principal will chose NOt to observe someone until the final day of school (or make up observations)…
That being said, I have seen “due process” be ineffective. See the following article (and, in particular look at the chart):
http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/articles/784/how-to-fire-a-dcps-teacher
This was in 2007, pre-Michelle Rhee days, so that is why she ended up coming in and cleaning house working to get rid of ineffective teachers. It pains me to say this, but some of the teachers she got rid of were ineffective. However, many others were not. I had one colleague who was let go and sued DCPS…two years later, she won her lawsuit and got her full salary.
Instead of both sides spending lots of money in the courts, why don’t we all come together and seek a reasonable solution and take the money we put into the courts and put it into the schools??”
So we have to accept your judgment about certain teachers being very bad. How do we know that your feelings about these supposedly poor teachers are accurate? If these teachers were so horrible, how the hell did they get tenure? Who hired them in the first place? Were you in their classes observing them to make that judgment? Regarding the teacher with repeated absences: was she actually very ill with serious medical problems? When I taught, you damn well had to prove you were sick and had to supply the documentation to prove it. Poor teachers don’t hide behind unions, that’s just bogus nonsense. Unions don’t hire the teachers, unions don’t grant tenure to teachers.
Joe – you have a fair point – but yes, I was in their class observing them. More importantly, I taught the students they had the previous year, I saw that the material they were teaching (on their tests, for example) was not appropriate content (in this case, an Algebra II teacher spent most of the time teaching Algebra I material, so when the students got to my pre-calculus class they were unprepared.
How did the teacher end up getting tenure? I would blame ineffective principals in the past. I would also say that in this case it may not have been “tenure” rules, but rather union rules…The teacher in question that had the absences would repeatedly not call in for a sub and simply not show up to class…
You can chose to take my story or not (but why would I chose to lie on a blog post?), I am just raising the question…
I read a lot of ed reformers twitter feeds and they all have one thing in common: you will not find a single positive mention of public schools.
Campbell Brown’s is no different:
Despite all the denials and marketing rhetoric, I think it’s one measure of what they’re about.
I used to object to the idea that it mattered that so few of them attended public schools, but I changed my mind about that. I now think it’s important as far as their real antipathy towards public schools. It’s something that huge numbers of people have in common; we went to public schools. They don’t share that. I think they start with the assumption that public schools are second rate, and go from there. That wasn’t my experience, nor was it MOST peoples’ experience, and I now think that matters.
“And the rich get richer. And their kids get smarter as parents invest more money, time in them.”
http://www.ajc.com/weblogs/get-schooled/2014/jul/30/and-rich-get-richer-and-do-better-school-even-midd/
This is a good piece. I love the photos of the assembled ed reform luminaries:
http://mothercrusader.blogspot.com/2014/08/campbell-browns-ties-to-billionaire.html?m=1
jlsteach: “what happens when poor teachers are allowed to hide behind unions?” You mean, “What happens when lazy administrator are allowed to blame their administrative shortcomings on union rules?” —
Fixed that for you. (Though to be fair, we don’t know the details of your anecdote.)
Harold – I am confused? What could the administrator have done? I know him well and if he could have he would have certainly found a way to get rid of this teacher. But he also followed protocol and realized that if he didn’t respect the union rules things could be much worse…
The thing that frustrates me is the blame game – you automatically assumed that the administrator was lazy. Why are administrator’s lazy as opposed administrator’s have their hands tied by union rules? Could it be the latter???
All I am saying is that the real answer lies somewhere in the middle…instead we have extremes blaming each other. It’s no better than what folks are doing in Congress.
I hate to add because I sense that I’ll be called a communist, but…
I know your admin’s pain; I was an AP with a veteran teacher who was really terrible. She was teaching long before I, or any other member of the admin team, began working in the district. I performed scheduled observations of her classes for her required evaluations and her performance was fine (not great, but nothing to get worked up about). However, I also did walk-throughs, visiting all of my teachers every week. These were non-evaluative and could not be used for or against anyone. Awful, awful things going on in that classroom. No instruction, no interaction, no nothing. Sometimes she didn’t notice that someone had come in to the room for the entire five minutes I was there. What to do? I did have professional and difficult conversations with her about what we hoped for our students and our teachers, but my hands were tied. Walk-throughs don’t count for formal evaluations and only formal evaluations could be used to place a teacher on an improvement plan. She put on a show for formal evals. Everyone knew, parents, teachers, students, even our Sup. It sucked.
So then the next question might be about the value of the walk-throughs. I loved them because they helped me learn about the strengths of our teachers and create opportunities for them to share and work together based on those strengths. I loved seeing students engaged in the work of being students. It fed our ability to schedule classes, assign courses, praise students, making purchasing decisions, and get to know our staff.
Evaluation needs to encompass a variety of people and circumstances (none of those being state testing, in my opinion) but with our particular contract we were hard pressed to change what any teacher was doing.
So what is the answer? I don’t know. Tenure protection is something I think is important, but then what about the truly terrible employee who knows how to use the system? Do I just accept the bad because there is so much other good? What about the students I must assign to her?
Epilogue: I left that district and while I know the principal and think he is an outstanding building leader, I also know he has yet to solve this one. It’s been eight years.
Thank you Kimberly for sharing your story…this helps explain my sentiments exactly.
To add to it…at our school we had really hoped to help create a PLC, where teachers would observe one another (or dept chairs would do so) in order to help support one another. Our staff was very divided – we had younger teachers who were more than willing to have others in their classroom, offer constructive feedback, etc. We also had veteran teachers who, more often than not, shouted that such visits violated union rules, etc. So, while some of the younger teachers would observe each other, veterans often times would simply close their door and do their own thing…
Like Kimberly, I am simply raising a point…yes, there needs to be some protection of teachers so that administrators cannot simply fire teachers at well…yet at the same time what do we do about the teachers who simply close their doors, do not really teach, and yet come observation time manage to do an adequate enough job to pass the observations?? Should such teachers be protected??
should be “administrators”
I like the way Colbert dished out Campbell Brown in the video. He was pretty much cynical about the ignorance of this poster PR girl from C-media.
Interesting interview. Just in one viewing I see lies, half-truths and innuendos:
Lie—I can’t reveal donors because they include parents from across the country who might be harassed by those protesting outside the studio. Truth: She won’t reveal donors because they’re undoubtedly the same wealthy Wall Street and Silicon Valley crowd behind all this. And if this is not a lie, she could easily prove me wrong by just revealing donors who contribute more than, say, $250–I can’t imagine many parents would go above that.
Half-Truth—We love teachers but hate the unions. (How does this compute?) We love single teachers, but when they band together they are evil. We, on the other hand, are entitled to band to together because we are “for the kids.”
Innuendo—Brown: There is bipartisan agreement that education in this country is in crisis. (Note: some might say that there is not that much space between the two parties, especially the corporate-leaning democrats who dominate the party; so *bipartisan* is a misnomer at present). Teachers are not in this work for anything but the big money and benefits. If you don’t threaten them with any-minute termination, they will not do the right thing for children.
I’m sure better minds than I could take Brown’s argument apart down to the nuts and bolts.
Hi jlsteach:
Have you ever realized that within your body, there is a lot of bad and good bacteria in your intestine and stomach?
Would you deprive yourself the livelihood of eating because a few of bad bacteria makes your breath and diarrhea smelly? Or would you research for alternative food and drink to have better breath and bowel movement?
Similarly, you can search for better school and environment so that you do not face to the particular situation in your example. You should not be ignorant enough to cut off the best democratic system if you are truly an educator. Your turn will come if you go to the communist country where its leader can treat you like a piece of dirt.
You are the educator and live in the most civilized country where you do not know how to treasure and protect your civil rights, but you horribly and intentionally destroy your and educators precious dignity through support business barbarous agenda without conscience.
Please, it is time to wake up to smell your coffee, and re-read Charles Dickens literature. Back2basic
m4potw, I could not have said it better. Your analogy was perfect. When due process through continuing contracts are lost, the teaching career of the experienced educator is over. At 51 years old, I would not be able to reach my retirement. I spend hours at my school building, spend lots of money out of my own account, dote on my students, go on weekend field trips with my school…I think everyone understands…..I am extremely dedicated to the well being of my students…and I am loved by my students and parents…..I was always loved by my bosses too….until a stranger came in who did not care about me or the wonderful accomplishments I made on a daily basis with my students. I will always do an outstanding job with my students, but I am walking on egg shells to get to my retirement. The first opportunity I can get my retirement, I will thank my Lord, and I will run to my car, and drive out of the parking lot as quickly and as safely as I can. I will leave all of my teaching supplies and materials for the teacher who replaces me. (:
This other teacher will understand someday that you can turn from an excellent teacher to a poor teacher overnight when you find yourself with an unfair evaluator who does not know you and does not live in your community. You have to go through it to understand. So, when that teacher wants to throw out due process because of the few bad teachers it protects, he/she will be throwing out the due process which will protect them someday and all excellent teachers past the age of 40. In other words, he/she wants to throw the baby out with the bath water.
I wonder if that teacher is younger…because I see that attitude a lot. A lot (not all) of the younger teachers feel that if they are always an excellent teacher they will never be bothered through an unfair process. This is so untrue. I have always had excellent bosses until the last school year. When you get an unfair evaluator, you must understand that you become a bad teacher overnight – lots of time due to age discrimination. It is horrible to go through. I prayed many times a day for my students to perform on their testing. They came through for me. Many of my students saw that I was under horrible stress. One of my students came up to me out of the blue one day and gave me a big hug. He said, “Everything is going to be okay…you’ll see…” My eyes teared up. My students and my family knew the misery I went through this past school year…I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.
My current test scores, released in June, are outstanding, but I have suffered unfair and cruel treatment from poor administration, and my teachers’ union and due process rights are all I have. I am very thankful for my continuing contract . . .Even though I am highly requested with high test scores, under the current principal, I am positive he would be trying to get rid of me. If you saw me teach, you would see I am an excellent teacher who is good for kids. When you see due process rights and continuing contracts disappear, the career of the “career educator” is over. I hope that teacher sees that. He/she will be shooting themselves in their own foot. Thank you for your excellent post. P.S. There are bad people in every profession. There’s not always a lot we can do about it. But, never be in the crowd who wants to eliminate due process for teachers. Teachers will be fired on the spot for no reason……My reason is that my hair dresser has to color my gray every 3 months….
Sad Teacher, I am sorry about your experiences…A couple things:
1. I NEVER have said that tenure rights or due process should NOT be just thrown out…what I am saying is that just as there are cases like yours where an administrator’s poor evaluation.
2. I too had a somewhat similar situation…in my last year of teaching, my wife was expecting our first two children (twins)…one of which I knew ahead of time would need surgery at birth. Clearly a stressful time. My administrator chose to observe me a week before our expected due date. It did not go well (I had a few things on my mind), and instead of understanding my situation, he said he wanted to observe me twice the following week. Thankfully, my kids came that Saturday. I took two weeks off for paternity leave, and three days after I returned was observed again.
So, Sad Teacher, I too have been targeted by an unfair administrator (previously I had had strong evaluations AND had won national awards for my teaching). So yes, a system where one evaluator makes all of the difference is NOT acceptable. However, at the same time, I question a system where poor teachers are allowed to stay in the classroom because of union protection (see my post about the path to get rid of poor teachers in DCPS)..
What I do think is that the actual answer is somewhere in the middle….
Sorry, I realize that I didn’t finish this thought:
I NEVER have said that tenure rights or due process should NOT be just thrown out…what I am saying is that just as there are cases like yours where an administrator’s poor evaluation….that there are cases where poor teachers are provided protection an allowed to stay in the classroom.
One other thought about folks cutting Stephen Colbert slack or not slack…I didn’t see the interview, but I do wonder if Colbert saying that Bill Gates is a friend of his is more of the character Colbret’s plays on the show as opposed to what the person feels…
Dearest Sad Teacher:
Although I do not know you in person, I really sense your dedication to your students and community. I hope that you believe in “good deed returns good deed.”, so that you will sail through storm with both seen and unseen angels’ protection.
May God bless you with strength, health and happiness in order to set excellent example of all best educators are. Best wishes. May from Canada.
Check out this flow chart— and the accompanying article — showing the connections that Brown and her husband havea in school reform:
http://news.muckety.com/2014/07/02/brown-and-senor-take-on-new-york-teachers/47161
Great link. Answers a part of the rest of the story.
“Campbell, a few miles away from New York City are some of the wealthiest and highest-performing school districts in the United States, if not the world. All of these districts have unionized teachers, step-guide contracts, tenure protections, and seniority. If tenure is the cause of bad teaching in poor districts, why do wealthy districts with tenure do so well?”
Campbell Brown’s campaign may indeed be nonsense, but this is a foolish comparison.
95% or more of the bill for the highest-performing NYC area schools is paid by local property taxes. Parents therefore wield an enormous amount of power compared to urban or poorer districts, where a far greater percentage of the budget comes from the state. The taxpayers in these well-to-do districts are willing to grin and bear paying what it takes to support $25-30K/per student budgets so long as their schools maintain a reputation for being “outstanding” and enhance real estate prices, which along with zoning/institutional racism helps to keep these towns so rigidly, unimaginably segregated. In return for their huge tax bill, parents know the higher salaries and superior working conditions will allow their district to pick from a much better talent pool, making it less likely that it’ll end up with ineffective teachers in the first place.
“And if you really believe that the teachers in poor areas are not as good as those in wealthy areas, how will getting rid of job protections help bring in better teacher candidates? Why would anyone want to teach in a city district, subject to far more political interference, when they can decamp for the leafy ‘burbs and avoid that nonsense?”
The number of jobs in the high-end suburbs isn’t infinite. I don’t doubt that a decent chunk of the teaching force in Yonkers and New York City would rather be teaching in Bronxville and Rye, but they didn’t make the cut. We’ve got the teachers who couldn’t and can’t decamp. And for the most part the worse-off schools inside the city have the teachers who couldn’t and can’t decamp to a higher-performing school in a better neighborhood. Students and teachers, stacked and sorted by the district model. Whoda thunk it.
What’s needed are those strategies to reduce and end residential segregation. Until that happens, the segregated suburbs will happily poach the very best teaching talent and unapologetically fail to educate their fair share of the region’s at-risk students.
Tim,
Teachers in the leafy burbs have students who are better prepared and therefore easier to teach. They wouldn’t last a day in my district. Are they better teachers? I think not.
I know that it is important for public schools to maintain the illusion that teacher quality is uniform between and (especially) within districts and schools. I don’t believe that teachers are widgets, or that student outcomes are driven solely by their innate intelligence and socioeconomic status.
It does bear mentioning, though, that wealthy public schools (including those in New York City) have much less turnover and thus their teachers are generally more experienced.
Reblogged this on Dolphin and commented:
I’m sorry, I disagree strongly with Diane’s point to give Stephen Colbert “some slack” –for one, he is not stupid. For another, he has stated on his program that Bill Gates is a friend of his…Colbert is in this up to his ears. Giving Campbell Brown air time is a gift to her movement. The media has a strong impact on people who won’t go any further than what is placed in front of them….which unfortunately, is most of the country.